- Seeing Romulans (or Hirogen in the future) on Quonos / EDS without a major comprehensive peace accord is going to break my immersion .
Seriously? I mean my immersion was broken ages ago, when I saw Mirror Universe uniforms, TOS uniforms and Motion Picture era uniforms wandering around ESD in the 25th Century, and then seeing people fly all different kinds of ships with no rhyme or reason, it just lost all sense of continuity.
- Seeing Romulans (or Hirogen in the future) on Quonos / EDS without a major comprehensive peace accord is going to break my immersion .
You can already see Romulans on ESD. There are several of us who play Roms - who built them using the Alien template.
- Knowing that the Romulans will defend Fed/KDF starbases , and in doing to will be killing their own (NPC) allies (enmasse) will break my immersion + cause me to further distrust Romulans (they are after all killing their allies with the ships that we (Fed/KDF supplied them) . That's just screams 'trustworthy' there .
Fed and KDF allied Roms only kill each other in PvP. The rest of the time they're shooting at Remans and Tal Shiar Roms.
All your arguments are really moot. STO is a game. It's not canon - it's never pretended to be canon. Your ship crew probably has Roms, Remans, Borg, Gorn, Breen, and Jem'Hadar Boffs and Doffs, but none of that broke immersion for you? It seems immersion for you is just whatever makes you happy rather then anything to do with the game.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Kinda smart actually, gives people more reasons to play Romulans. If there is one thing I've learned from people who play this game, there are a fair share of people who are to lazy to put any work into anything.
Maybe this will be enough incentive for some of the less lazy to make a Romulan, for the ones its not I'm sure they will ask for a faction respec, perhaps even a free one.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Well something you need to keep in mind is that the devs are looking to get the most money for the least amount of investment.
Hence why we are seeing them cut so many corners with these "Romulans".
The Romulans have never had that many ships appear in canon, so that means that filling out an entire roster would require a lot of brand new ones created by the devs. A process that takes time and money, and ultimately has to get approval by CBS at multiple points along the way.
Letting the romulans raid the roster of existing Federation and Klingon ships on the other hand allows them to pad the roster without having to invest as much time and money.
This same formula applies to consoles, doffs, weapons, and fleet assets.
As time passes we will probably see more things added here and there to flesh out this new faction, and it might eventually grow into something more self supporting.
This is it, but do bear in mind that introducing a new faction is a massive undertaking. There is only so much that Cryptic can do in six months.
3 new free ship at each tier plus zen versions, all tested for balance - just not possible.
You can already see Romulans on ESD. There are several of us who play Roms - who built them using the Alien template.
Fed and KDF allied Roms only kill each other in PvP. The rest of the time they're shooting at Remans and Tal Shiar Roms.
All your arguments are really moot. STO is a game. It's not canon - it's never pretended to be canon. Your ship crew probably has Roms, Remans, Borg, Gorn, Breen, and Jem'Hadar Boffs and Doffs, but none of that broke immersion for you? It seems immersion for you is just whatever makes you happy rather then anything to do with the game.
Those aren't actually doff's. They're prisoners I captured in my many exploits throughout the galaxies :P
Even in the 2500s, the Ferengi Alliance is still not part of the Federation - it's explicitly noted that the first being to get dual citizenship so she could serve in Starfleet was a Ferengi geologist named Rhea. Yet Ferengi command ships of all ranks in Starfleet, and nobody raises an eyebrow.
Those captains are part of starfleet. They wear the uniform and are working for the benefit of the federation.
Same for "romulans" who were rolled as starfleet. They are like Worf, exceptions instead of the norm.
All your arguments are really moot. STO is a game. It's not canon - it's never pretended to be canon. Your ship crew probably has Roms, Remans, Borg, Gorn, Breen, and Jem'Hadar Boffs and Doffs, but none of that broke immersion for you? It seems immersion for you is just whatever makes you happy rather then anything to do with the game.
It's an MMO. According to that, there is only ONE ship with reman, Jem'hadar,... on board : yours. Just like Data or Worf aboard the Enterprise. They were the only android and klingon to serve on a fed ship.
YOU are the hero, the one that met Obisek, destroy Hakeev, etc... The one so skilled he conviced a Jem'hadar, a Breen and a Reman to join his crew. The others Captains you met are, from the storyline POW, nothing more than NPC sent to help you.
The only big canon problem you can find is the ships. No matter what, those "NPC" sometimes fly in alien ship, instead of fed ship.
As for the Romulan, Cardassian,.. in Starfleet/KDF, they are part of the "Alien" that serve on those ship. They are rare, according to the lore, but still exist. Just like Worf, their past life, or choices, made them join another faction than we would have expected.
My Romulan (twins), for example, are half human half Romulan, and since the homeworld was destroyed, they were raised in the Federation space, and thus, choose to fight for Starfleet. The opposite of Sela, if you like.
Starfleet like to embrace new culture, while the KDF like to subjugate others. That mean some alien serve for them, but it doesn't mean the whole empire want to ally with them.
It's an MMO. According to that, there is only ONE ship with reman, Jem'hadar,... on board : yours. Just like Data or Worf aboard the Enterprise. They were the only android and klingon to serve on a fed ship.
YOU are the hero, the one that met Obisek, destroy Hakeev, etc... The one so skilled he conviced a Jem'hadar, a Breen and a Reman to join his crew. The others Captains you met are, from the storyline POW, nothing more than NPC sent to help you.
STO is an MMO, not SPG. As such you are often going to be teamed with people which prove that your Android or Klingon isn't the only one in Starfleet - the same for Breen, Jem's, Remans, and the rest. So there's not only ONE ship with all these races.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
STO is an MMO, not SPG. As such you are often going to be teamed with people which prove that your Android or Klingon isn't the only one in Starfleet - the same for Breen, Jem's, Remans, and the rest. So there's not only ONE ship with all these races.
From the Story perspective there is only one captain who saved the day from a Klingon controlled Doomsday weapon, and only one captain who helped the Remen, and one of those Remen joined your crew.
It's not a SPG, but the story does not care about the other guys.
In part I can understand why they are shoving then into existing Starbases because they really believe (their metrics tell them) that people that join guilds stay playing, except their grind implementation of the Fleet system is so utter disgusting all they did was drive players away, instead of retention they just made existing players leave.
The thing they are banking on is people will come to play Romulans and then will spend money on the game for Federation and Klingon characters and that is why we have the whole sharing ships because they think its attractive for the new Rommy players that will then go make Fed and KDF characters because they have ships.
I don't think that's the case. That's just rationalization for not wanting to introduce another low pop, and low revenue, faction.
This approach lays the ground work for introducing other playable races in the future with just enough differentiation to market them as a "faction," possibly even leading to a single-faction game.
My guess is that the infamous 'Only 18% play Klingon' thing is coming back to bite (Romulan) players in the butt. Cryptic made a decent attempt at making the Klingons feel different from the Federation by acknowledging a lot of the violent and nasty stuff they did. They obviously weren't mainstream enough, because not as many players go for KDF (there are other issues at hand here too, of course) so when it came time to make a Romulan faction, they made it as blandly appealing to the general public as possible.
1) There are major issues associated with the klingon faction; it's impossible to say that they're not "mainstream enough" given just how problematic these issues are (requiring a level 24 Fed alone makes it impossible to draw your conclusion).
2) They didn't need to make Romulans as bland as possible; they only needed to offer them as an enhanced playable race. They could have maintained the essence of Romulans from the IP; even the ones we see question the RSE or object to the Tal'Shiar always put duty and loyalty ahead of their own personal opinions - freedom fighters seem entirely counterintuitive to that.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
From the Story perspective there is only one captain who saved the day from a Klingon controlled Doomsday weapon, and only one captain who helped the Remen, and one of those Remen joined your crew.
It's not a SPG, but the story does not care about the other guys.
actually the episodal missions ARE a SPG... that's another problem that's nosing its way in
From the Story perspective there is only one captain who saved the day from a Klingon controlled Doomsday weapon, and only one captain who helped the Remen, and one of those Remen joined your crew.
It's not a SPG, but the story does not care about the other guys.
I use this same excuse to wrap my mind around the fact that there are thousands of Vice Admirals around when logic states there should be much less Vice Admirals than Captains.
4. There would be no excuse to not have T5 Constitutions, Mirandas, Oberths, or D-7s. When a Romulan Farmer can pilot the pride of a nation, there's really no excuse anymore.
There may not be an "excuse" not to have a T5 Connie, but there is a absolutely iron-clad, unescapable reason why it cannot happen at this time:
The IP holder won't allow it, and their contract with Cryptic allows them to make that decision.
Every time you say "Cryptic, please give us a T5 Connie", you're preaching to the choir. It's CBS you have to convince, not dstahl; he'd give you a T5 Connie tomorrow if they'd let him, because he knows far more people would give him money for it than would be incensed into no longer giving money because of it.
Hell, I'd never fly anything else on my main, and I'd pay the money instantly.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
There may not be an "excuse" not to have a T5 Connie, but there is a absolutely iron-clad, unescapable reason why it cannot happen at this time:
The IP holder won't allow it, and their contract with Cryptic allows them to make that decision.
Every time you say "Cryptic, please give us a T5 Connie", you're preaching to the choir. It's CBS you have to convince, not dstahl; he'd give you a T5 Connie tomorrow if they'd let him, because he knows far more people would give him money for it than would be incensed into no longer giving money because of it.
Hell, I'd never fly anything else on my main, and I'd pay the money instantly.
You really should have brought this up in the connie thread you locked.
Anyways, giving the Romulans top game fed and klink ships was a terrible move. Even if the Romulans become independent one day people will still have these ships, trolling around the capitol planets atmosphere in one giant buck all to immersion.
Seriously? I mean my immersion was broken ages ago, when I saw Mirror Universe uniforms, TOS uniforms and Motion Picture era uniforms wandering around ESD in the 25th Century, and then seeing people fly all different kinds of ships with no rhyme or reason, it just lost all sense of continuity.
I see and understand what you're saying , and you're not the first one to say so .
Yet I remain unconvinced .
Perhaps because this goes beyond player chosen uniform/ship .
This time it just feels different for me .
It feels like the things you've mentioned don't besmirch Trek lore as we know it , and as we're standing at the gateway for this (and other possible factions) -- and there is an inescapable feeling that the "lore givers" who are also supposed to be the "lore protectors" just done something that is (or feels) WRONG .
And this is a different level of 'wrong' then the current Dominion occupation of ESD .
The TNG story called "Attached" basically revolves around the idea that a nation/continent wanted to join the Federation and another one didn't (or something like that) .
This is how the Romulans feel to me . They do not act as a whole people . Thus they do not deserve the support that Cryptic thinks they should get .
No peace , no ships .
You can already see Romulans on ESD. There are several of us who play Roms - who built them using the Alien template.
I see a vast difference on many levels between a few RP-ers and officially sanctioned story by Cryptic .
Fed and KDF allied Roms only kill each other in PvP. The rest of the time they're shooting at Remans and Tal Shiar Roms.
As I understand it , that's not true .
The Rommy's will be able to help you build Fed/KDF starbases .
In order to do that they will have to gather resources , including playing their allies Fleet Defense missions . In these missions you do kill the enemies of your allies .
In this case those 'enemies' are also your allies (as D'Tan folks are allied with both Fed & KDF) . What you won't be able to do is play missions like Starbase 24 , but that mission does not offer Starbase creation materials (fleetmarks) .
Ask DStahl if your Rommy will be able to gather Fleet Marks . If the answer is 'yes' then you will be killing you allies with ships that will be provided by different allies .
No two ways about it .
All your arguments are really moot. STO is a game. It's not canon - it's never pretended to be canon.
STO is a current "soft" canon . Some (not me) will argue that it is the premiere soft canon .
At either rate it is promoting a supposedly coherent "internal" (to the game) canon , and externally it is being promoted on StarTrek.com , gaming websites/blogs , videos , and even one softcover novel .
You may dismiss the notion of it being "hard" canon , but give me the chance to try and respect it as soft canon .
(it's the only thing I have ... after bad comic writing & horridly substandard book editing has turned me off the other "soft" canon stuff )
It seems immersion for you is just whatever makes you happy rather then anything to do with the game.
I ... can't really argue with that , so instead I will propose a look-see :
Am I the only one who feels that the ship sharing idea is 'wrong' ?
The answer is 'no' and you know what -- even if we're all wrong , that will not change the stance of some of us (or at least mine) .
This is not even an issue that can be decided by the "Forum Majority".
Money is involved .
I for one can't tell Cryptic to not make money , but I can try to persuade them to not make blatant mercenaries out of the Rommy's (and all the other factions that may follow) .
They deserve more ... even in soft canon .
I've been listening to the immersion argument since Closed Beta. It breaks the immersion to have 10' tall alien species as captains. It breaks the immersion to have the Feds and KDF at war. It breaks the immersion to have new Starbases in the game rather then the old mushroom bases. It breaks the immersion to have TOS Connies in the game. It breaks immersion to allow Feds or KDF to use non-Faction equipment and ship weapons. It breaks the immersion to have NX ships in the game. It breaks the immersion to have T5 Excelsiors in the game. It breaks the immersion to allow Vulcan ships to be used in the game. It breaks the immersion to allow Caitain ships in the game. It breaks the immersion to have Caitains - a race that was only in the animated series. It breaks the immersion to have Trill on the KDF. It breaks the immersion to have Jem'Hadar bugs, Galors, D'Kora, Mirror Universe, Timeships, Jem'Hadar carriers, and every other non-Faction ship being used. It breaks immersion to have STF gear in use. It breaks immersion to have Rom/Reman gear used on ships. It breaks immersion to have non-Faction Boffs and Doffs. Now it breaks immersion to have Roms using allied ships.
It seems to me that people never get tired of using the immersion argument.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I've been listening to the immersion argument since Closed Beta. It breaks the immersion to have 10' tall alien species as captains. It breaks the immersion to have the Feds and KDF at war. It breaks the immersion to have new Starbases in the game rather then the old mushroom bases. It breaks the immersion to have TOS Connies in the game. It breaks immersion to allow Feds or KDF to use non-Faction equipment and ship weapons. It breaks the immersion to have NX ships in the game. It breaks the immersion to have T5 Excelsiors in the game. It breaks the immersion to allow Vulcan ships to be used in the game. It breaks the immersion to allow Caitain ships in the game. It breaks the immersion to have Caitains - a race that was only in the animated series. It breaks the immersion to have Trill on the KDF. It breaks the immersion to have Jem'Hadar bugs, Galors, D'Kora, Mirror Universe, Timeships, Jem'Hadar carriers, and every other non-Faction ship being used. It breaks immersion to have STF gear in use. It breaks immersion to have Rom/Reman gear used on ships. It breaks immersion to have non-Faction Boffs and Doffs. Now it breaks immersion to have Roms using allied ships.
It seems to me that people never get tired of using the immersion argument.
I've been listening to the immersion argument since Closed Beta.
(snip)
Now it breaks immersion to have Roms using allied ships.
It seems to me that people never get tired of using the immersion argument.
Some folks care about the story .
Some could care less , as long as they get their ship of the month .
Heck , with the introduction of the Foundry , some folks care more about their stories then those produced by Cryptic .
Don't tell me that one "faction" from above is more 'wrong' then the other .
We are all fans here to some degree , and most of us post (and occasionally troll) because we care .
4. There would be no excuse to not have T5 Constitutions, Mirandas, Oberths, or D-7s. When a Romulan Farmer can pilot the pride of a nation, there's really no excuse anymore.
I think that really nails it on the head for me. Romulan Farmers get to captain the Federation's most powerful ships. Cryptic, give me one reason why this makes sense outside of preventing you from having to make more ships! There is no lore-friendly, canon, semi-canon, remotely logical, alternate universe explanation for this. You have already asked us to suspend our disbelief so far with ships in STO it's almost becoming an insult, now this? You have no respect for Star Trek do you?
I think that really nails it on the head for me. Romulan Farmers get to captain the Federation's most powerful ships. Cryptic, give me one reason why this makes sense outside of preventing you from having to make more ships! There is no lore-friendly, canon, semi-canon, remotely logical, alternate universe explanation for this. You have already asked us to suspend our disbelief so far with ships in STO it's almost becoming an insult, now this? You have no respect for Star Trek do you?
Just keep in mind that everything Cryptic does needs to be approved by CBS before they do it.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Just keep in mind that everything Cryptic does needs to be approved by CBS before they do it.
Yes well clearly CBS looked at how the US gives away stealth bombers to China, Russia, the UK and all of our other allies and decided, hey this makes sense! CBS is perfect after all and never makes any mistakes in their logic. They are gods, Cryptic is god, fanboy salute, etc. :rolleyes:
Let me quote you...
"STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game."
You know this **** is stupid yet you continue to argue that it isn't. I don't understand why you don't understand that people are getting sick of this.
Yes well clearly CBS looked at how the US gives away stealth bombers to China, Russia, the UK and all of our other allies and decided, hey this makes sense! CBS is perfect after all and never makes any mistakes in their logic. They are gods, Cryptic is god, fanboy salute, etc. :rolleyes:
Let me quote you...
"STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game."
You know this **** is stupid yet you continue to argue that it isn't. I don't understand why you don't understand that people are getting sick of this.
The point is that the CBS vetting committee had no issues with it. This is the same committee which shot down numerous ship choices - as well as the T5 Connie. The CBS committee gets to say NO any time they want. Your not liking something doesn't mean that CBS agrees with you - and CBS has far more at stake in this then you do.
As far as my sig, the point of the sig is that I completely understand that STO is not canon. It doesn't try to be canon. It's its own thing. The only ones who want to believe it's canon are the deluded.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Some folks care about the story .
Some could care less , as long as they get their ship of the month .
Heck , with the introduction of the Foundry , some folks care more about their stories then those produced by Cryptic .
Don't tell me that one "faction" from above is more 'wrong' then the other .
We are all fans here to some degree , and most of us post (and occasionally troll) because we care .
Good post. I agree. I'm sure it is difficult for Cryptic to please everyone. It just sucks that the "cares about the story" crowd is so easy for them to throw away.
The point is that the CBS vetting committee had no issues with it. This is the same committee which shot down numerous ship choices - as well as the T5 Connie. The CBS committee gets to say NO any time they want. Your not liking something doesn't mean that CBS agrees with you - and CBS has far more at stake in this then you do.
As far as my sig, the point of the sig is that I completely understand that STO is not canon. It doesn't try to be canon. It's its own thing. The only ones who want to believe it's canon are the deluded.
So your entire argument boils down, to CBS said it was okay and you don't care. That somehow means that I am wrong in stating this is far, far from realistic and an insult to my willingness to suspend my disbelief? Do you see how you are not even talking about what I'm talking about? I'll turn this around on you.
I don't care about your opinion either. That doesn't make your opinion any better than mine. I don't care if CBS said it was okay. That doesn't make it any more believable.
Please go tell somebody else what their opinion should be. I'm sure you can find someone who will care.
So your entire argument boils down, to CBS said it was okay and you don't care. That somehow means that I am wrong in stating this is far, far from realistic and an insult to my willingness to suspend my disbelief? Do you see how you are not even talking about what I'm talking about? I'll turn this around on you.
I don't care about your opinion either. That doesn't make your opinion any better than mine. I don't care if CBS said it was okay. That doesn't make it any more believable.
Please go tell somebody else what their opinion should be. I'm sure you can find someone who will care.
Actually, I think his argument boils down to, "CBS was fine with it, and they actually know what's going to happen at the end of May." with the clear implication that you, well, don't.
Actually, I think his argument boils down to, "CBS was fine with it, and they actually know what's going to happen at the end of May." with the clear implication that you, well, don't.
Now it's all clear to me...
So in the end of May, in CBS-approved official Star Trek lore, the Federation and KDF will have new allies whom they willingly give away their best technology to even though those brand-spanking new allies have tried to destroy them both many, many times.
Maybe you'll be right. Maybe if somehow Into Darkness is about the Romulans splitting in to two factions and taking over both the Federation and KDF, then I could see it make sense. Short of that there is no way in hell anybody would give away their best tech to a long-time enemy turned brand new ally.
-EDIT- At best, I will give you, "It's a very far stretch" to say that anybody would share their most important defenses with a brand new ally who was a long-time enemy just yesterday without them sharing theirs' in return. It's laughable at best; it's lore-breaking at worst. If you actually address the issue and don't try to write it off with I don't care about canon, Cryptic doesn't care about canon and CBS doesn't really care about canon either, there's not really much there to argue with. Unless of course, you believe that opinions are not allowed.
So in the end of May, in CBS-approved official Star Trek lore, the Federation and KDF will have new allies whom they willingly give away their best technology to even though those brand-spanking new allies have tried to destroy them both many, many times.
Maybe you'll be right. Maybe if somehow Into Darkness is about the Romulans splitting in to two factions and taking over both the Federation and KDF, then I could see it make sense. Short of that there is no way in hell anybody would give away their best tech to a long-time enemy turned brand new ally.
Tell me, why exactly should it be so inconceivable that the Federation would loan top of the line vessels to an ally that's spent the past 50 levels earning their trust?
And please, spare me any real world analogies. I don't care about stealth bombers and talking about stealth bombers does not advance this discussion.
Comments
Seriously? I mean my immersion was broken ages ago, when I saw Mirror Universe uniforms, TOS uniforms and Motion Picture era uniforms wandering around ESD in the 25th Century, and then seeing people fly all different kinds of ships with no rhyme or reason, it just lost all sense of continuity.
What game are you playing in the 2500s? I've been stuck in the year 2409 for three years.
Fed and KDF allied Roms only kill each other in PvP. The rest of the time they're shooting at Remans and Tal Shiar Roms.
All your arguments are really moot. STO is a game. It's not canon - it's never pretended to be canon. Your ship crew probably has Roms, Remans, Borg, Gorn, Breen, and Jem'Hadar Boffs and Doffs, but none of that broke immersion for you? It seems immersion for you is just whatever makes you happy rather then anything to do with the game.
Maybe this will be enough incentive for some of the less lazy to make a Romulan, for the ones its not I'm sure they will ask for a faction respec, perhaps even a free one.
This is it, but do bear in mind that introducing a new faction is a massive undertaking. There is only so much that Cryptic can do in six months.
3 new free ship at each tier plus zen versions, all tested for balance - just not possible.
Those aren't actually doff's. They're prisoners I captured in my many exploits throughout the galaxies :P
Same for "romulans" who were rolled as starfleet. They are like Worf, exceptions instead of the norm.
YOU are the hero, the one that met Obisek, destroy Hakeev, etc... The one so skilled he conviced a Jem'hadar, a Breen and a Reman to join his crew. The others Captains you met are, from the storyline POW, nothing more than NPC sent to help you.
The only big canon problem you can find is the ships. No matter what, those "NPC" sometimes fly in alien ship, instead of fed ship.
As for the Romulan, Cardassian,.. in Starfleet/KDF, they are part of the "Alien" that serve on those ship. They are rare, according to the lore, but still exist. Just like Worf, their past life, or choices, made them join another faction than we would have expected.
My Romulan (twins), for example, are half human half Romulan, and since the homeworld was destroyed, they were raised in the Federation space, and thus, choose to fight for Starfleet. The opposite of Sela, if you like.
Starfleet like to embrace new culture, while the KDF like to subjugate others. That mean some alien serve for them, but it doesn't mean the whole empire want to ally with them.
From the Story perspective there is only one captain who saved the day from a Klingon controlled Doomsday weapon, and only one captain who helped the Remen, and one of those Remen joined your crew.
It's not a SPG, but the story does not care about the other guys.
It's tantamount to offering only Klingon pacifists.
I don't think that's the case. That's just rationalization for not wanting to introduce another low pop, and low revenue, faction.
This approach lays the ground work for introducing other playable races in the future with just enough differentiation to market them as a "faction," possibly even leading to a single-faction game.
1) There are major issues associated with the klingon faction; it's impossible to say that they're not "mainstream enough" given just how problematic these issues are (requiring a level 24 Fed alone makes it impossible to draw your conclusion).
2) They didn't need to make Romulans as bland as possible; they only needed to offer them as an enhanced playable race. They could have maintained the essence of Romulans from the IP; even the ones we see question the RSE or object to the Tal'Shiar always put duty and loyalty ahead of their own personal opinions - freedom fighters seem entirely counterintuitive to that.
actually the episodal missions ARE a SPG... that's another problem that's nosing its way in
I use this same excuse to wrap my mind around the fact that there are thousands of Vice Admirals around when logic states there should be much less Vice Admirals than Captains.
There may not be an "excuse" not to have a T5 Connie, but there is a absolutely iron-clad, unescapable reason why it cannot happen at this time:
The IP holder won't allow it, and their contract with Cryptic allows them to make that decision.
Every time you say "Cryptic, please give us a T5 Connie", you're preaching to the choir. It's CBS you have to convince, not dstahl; he'd give you a T5 Connie tomorrow if they'd let him, because he knows far more people would give him money for it than would be incensed into no longer giving money because of it.
Hell, I'd never fly anything else on my main, and I'd pay the money instantly.
You really should have brought this up in the connie thread you locked.
Anyways, giving the Romulans top game fed and klink ships was a terrible move. Even if the Romulans become independent one day people will still have these ships, trolling around the capitol planets atmosphere in one giant buck all to immersion.
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I see and understand what you're saying , and you're not the first one to say so .
Yet I remain unconvinced .
Perhaps because this goes beyond player chosen uniform/ship .
This time it just feels different for me .
It feels like the things you've mentioned don't besmirch Trek lore as we know it , and as we're standing at the gateway for this (and other possible factions) -- and there is an inescapable feeling that the "lore givers" who are also supposed to be the "lore protectors" just done something that is (or feels) WRONG .
And this is a different level of 'wrong' then the current Dominion occupation of ESD .
The TNG story called "Attached" basically revolves around the idea that a nation/continent wanted to join the Federation and another one didn't (or something like that) .
This is how the Romulans feel to me . They do not act as a whole people . Thus they do not deserve the support that Cryptic thinks they should get .
No peace , no ships .
I see a vast difference on many levels between a few RP-ers and officially sanctioned story by Cryptic .
As I understand it , that's not true .
The Rommy's will be able to help you build Fed/KDF starbases .
In order to do that they will have to gather resources , including playing their allies Fleet Defense missions . In these missions you do kill the enemies of your allies .
In this case those 'enemies' are also your allies (as D'Tan folks are allied with both Fed & KDF) . What you won't be able to do is play missions like Starbase 24 , but that mission does not offer Starbase creation materials (fleetmarks) .
Ask DStahl if your Rommy will be able to gather Fleet Marks . If the answer is 'yes' then you will be killing you allies with ships that will be provided by different allies .
No two ways about it .
STO is a current "soft" canon . Some (not me) will argue that it is the premiere soft canon .
At either rate it is promoting a supposedly coherent "internal" (to the game) canon , and externally it is being promoted on StarTrek.com , gaming websites/blogs , videos , and even one softcover novel .
You may dismiss the notion of it being "hard" canon , but give me the chance to try and respect it as soft canon .
(it's the only thing I have ... after bad comic writing & horridly substandard book editing has turned me off the other "soft" canon stuff
I ... can't really argue with that , so instead I will propose a look-see :
Am I the only one who feels that the ship sharing idea is 'wrong' ?
The answer is 'no' and you know what -- even if we're all wrong , that will not change the stance of some of us (or at least mine) .
This is not even an issue that can be decided by the "Forum Majority".
Money is involved .
I for one can't tell Cryptic to not make money , but I can try to persuade them to not make blatant mercenaries out of the Rommy's (and all the other factions that may follow) .
They deserve more ... even in soft canon .
Your mileage may differ .
It seems to me that people never get tired of using the immersion argument.
Your post is breaking my immersion.
Some folks care about the story .
Some could care less , as long as they get their ship of the month .
Heck , with the introduction of the Foundry , some folks care more about their stories then those produced by Cryptic .
Don't tell me that one "faction" from above is more 'wrong' then the other .
We are all fans here to some degree , and most of us post (and occasionally troll) because we care .
I think that really nails it on the head for me. Romulan Farmers get to captain the Federation's most powerful ships. Cryptic, give me one reason why this makes sense outside of preventing you from having to make more ships! There is no lore-friendly, canon, semi-canon, remotely logical, alternate universe explanation for this. You have already asked us to suspend our disbelief so far with ships in STO it's almost becoming an insult, now this? You have no respect for Star Trek do you?
Yes well clearly CBS looked at how the US gives away stealth bombers to China, Russia, the UK and all of our other allies and decided, hey this makes sense! CBS is perfect after all and never makes any mistakes in their logic. They are gods, Cryptic is god, fanboy salute, etc. :rolleyes:
Let me quote you...
"STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game."
You know this **** is stupid yet you continue to argue that it isn't. I don't understand why you don't understand that people are getting sick of this.
As far as my sig, the point of the sig is that I completely understand that STO is not canon. It doesn't try to be canon. It's its own thing. The only ones who want to believe it's canon are the deluded.
Good post. I agree. I'm sure it is difficult for Cryptic to please everyone. It just sucks that the "cares about the story" crowd is so easy for them to throw away.
So your entire argument boils down, to CBS said it was okay and you don't care. That somehow means that I am wrong in stating this is far, far from realistic and an insult to my willingness to suspend my disbelief? Do you see how you are not even talking about what I'm talking about? I'll turn this around on you.
I don't care about your opinion either. That doesn't make your opinion any better than mine. I don't care if CBS said it was okay. That doesn't make it any more believable.
Please go tell somebody else what their opinion should be. I'm sure you can find someone who will care.
Actually, I think his argument boils down to, "CBS was fine with it, and they actually know what's going to happen at the end of May." with the clear implication that you, well, don't.
Now it's all clear to me...
So in the end of May, in CBS-approved official Star Trek lore, the Federation and KDF will have new allies whom they willingly give away their best technology to even though those brand-spanking new allies have tried to destroy them both many, many times.
Maybe you'll be right. Maybe if somehow Into Darkness is about the Romulans splitting in to two factions and taking over both the Federation and KDF, then I could see it make sense. Short of that there is no way in hell anybody would give away their best tech to a long-time enemy turned brand new ally.
-EDIT- At best, I will give you, "It's a very far stretch" to say that anybody would share their most important defenses with a brand new ally who was a long-time enemy just yesterday without them sharing theirs' in return. It's laughable at best; it's lore-breaking at worst. If you actually address the issue and don't try to write it off with I don't care about canon, Cryptic doesn't care about canon and CBS doesn't really care about canon either, there's not really much there to argue with. Unless of course, you believe that opinions are not allowed.
Tell me, why exactly should it be so inconceivable that the Federation would loan top of the line vessels to an ally that's spent the past 50 levels earning their trust?
And please, spare me any real world analogies. I don't care about stealth bombers and talking about stealth bombers does not advance this discussion.
R.I.P