I'm assuming, in terms of gameplay, Battlecloaks can only be installed on smaller classes of ships (such as Defiant class and Birds of Prey).
To Battlecloak a larger ship would most likely be unfeasible because it's much larger, therefore there is more of the ship to cloak.
I'm assuming the Klingons are not capable of doing so, because they're using modified romulan cloaks and did not actually invent the technology.
And since that Alliance was dissolved shortly after it was made, the Klingons weren't kept up to date with the advances in Cloaking Technology the Romulans were making.
They're essentially using cloaks from two centuries ago!
Need I remind you who modified the cloaking device so that a ship could launch torpedoes while staying cloaked? It took 12 years until we saw something like that on a Romulan vessel. Don't underestimate the Klingons.
Need I remind you who modified the cloaking device so that a ship could launch torpedoes while staying cloaked? It took 12 years until we saw something like that on a Romulan vessel. Don't underestimate the Klingons.
we dont know who modified the cloak, and if you watch it again you will know that the Romulan ambassador was in on it as well so who is to say the rommies didn't do it?
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
we dont know who modified the cloak, and if you watch it again you will know that the Romulan ambassador was in on it as well so who is to say the rommies didn't do it?
Faulty speculation is faulty. What is to say the humans involved where not the masterminds of the whole assassination and warmongering since they where there as well and the Romulan was merely a pawn.
Considering that the explosion and plot happened so fast its not feasible that the romulans would suddenly loan a fire while cloak device to start a war when they could just have fired the torps and disapeered with none the wiser.
Since the story went the way it did the dacts point more tpwards the KDF being the creator of their own version of a fire whe cloaked technology instead.
...Giving the correct, canon cloaking device to the Defiant might cause some problems ingame. But I hardly think it would mean the end of all Klingons in STO. Nor do I think it would compromise the Raiders' and Raptors' abilities and place in the game. Don't see too many KDF players swanning about in Defiants, do we? Didn't think so. So let the Feds have what they want. Is it really that big a deal? Does it mean we are any less Klingon because Starfleet has a Battle Cloak for some of its ships? I don't think so.
I think you missed my point. I never said it would mean the end of Klingons in STO. I'm talking game mechanics and balance issues here. I don't care about what the Feds. have or don't have.
But the statement "Let the Feds. have what they want." is utterly wrong. I'm going to tell you why. I and all the other KDF and Romulan players are human beings that live on Earth just like the Feds. I'm a paying customer in STO as much as the next guy.
So why can a person just because it happens to play Fed. have a battlecloaking ship with 10console slots, 5 of which tactical ones, 33k hull and 0.9 shield modifier, while at the same time I must give up 9k hull, 0.1 shield mod and a weapon slot to have the same ability?
I'm assuming, in terms of gameplay, Battlecloaks can only be installed on smaller classes of ships (such as Defiant class and Birds of Prey).
To Battlecloak a larger ship would most likely be unfeasible because it's much larger, therefore there is more of the ship to cloak.
The Romulans most likely have ways to fix this problem, since they are the creators of the technology.
I'm assuming the Klingons are not capable of doing so, because they're using modified romulan cloaks and did not actually invent the technology.
And since that Alliance was dissolved shortly after it was made, the Klingons weren't kept up to date with the advances in Cloaking Technology the Romulans were making.
They're essentially using cloaks from two centuries ago!
Eh sorry, but that's not how this game is played hehe...
If you use canon as an argument to get a battlecloak for the Defiant, I will use the same argument to get a battlecloak for my Vor'cha. Both are shown to preform cloaking maneuvers whenever they feel like it, or what we call 'battlecloak' in STO.
Also the old argument Klingons are stupid, but Humans are awesome doesn't work.
I don't know the mechanics of how a cloak works, but I think it goes something like this.
The size of the ship and the power signature linked to a sizeable ship limits how effective the cloak can be.
A relatively small ship has a more effective cloak, since less is being hidden.
Also, O'Brien says something to the effect of "the Defiant has a larger then normal power signature, so the cloak might not be hiding us effectively".
That's why I assume a larger ship can't battlecloak properly, a sizeable cloaking field is not as effective as a smaller one.
Also the old argument Klingons are stupid, but Humans are awesome doesn't work.
Unfortunately, for Klingons, that is an inescapable fact.
The Klingons did not invent anything, they stole or bartered for pretty much all their technology.
If it had not been for one very unfortunate Hurq crew, the Klingons wouldn't have warp drives, let alone know there were other species out there!
Basically, a Hurq vessel crashlanded on Qo'nos.
And while they were repairing their ship to leave, the Klingons slaughtered the crew and took the ship to study.
While it no doubt takes a degree of technical expertise to learn how to copy someone else's ship, it's not the same as genuinely inventing it yourself!
Especially when the instruction manuals explain how to build and repair it.
The raider class are the Birds of Prey. The military designation of the BoPs in the KDF is raider class of starships.
Okay, I don't follow the logic of that.
If the Defiant is converted to a BOP analogue, it will stop us from using a ship that Starfleet characters do not have access to?
Please excuse me for being blunt, but it looks like you're saying if we want a BOP, it's being held out as a carrot to make us go over to the KDF side.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I don't know the mechanics of how a cloak works, but I think it goes something like this.
The size of the ship and the power signature linked to a sizeable ship limits how effective the cloak can be.
A relatively small ship has a more effective cloak, since less is being hidden.
Also, O'Brien says something to the effect of "the Defiant has a larger then normal power signature, so the cloak might not be hiding us effectively".
That's why I assume a larger ship can't battlecloak properly, a sizeable cloaking field is not as effective as a smaller one.
Well, I think that we can all agree that the cloak works just like the writers of a random episode of Trek wanted for that particular episode. :P
You are correct that a bigger ship's power signature would make the cloak less effective, but it has nothing to do with battlecloak. We actually have this mechanic in game through the Bortasqu' battlecruiser. In STO, a well equiped science ship with cloak detecting abilities and high aux is suposed to be able to start noticing cloaked ships when they get closer than 10km to the said ship. Because the Bortasqu' is huge it has a huge energy signature to power it and therefore a cloaked Bortasqu' in STO is suposed to be seen by the same mentioned sci.ship at the range of 15km (or 20km, I don't remember just how much more distance it was). And from the description in the dev.blog of the new borgified ships that come from the Tal'Shiar lockbox will probably have the same mechanic applied to them, because their cloak was described as significantly weaker by the devs.
However the energy signatures have nothing to do with battlecloak. A ship can be detected more easily while under cloak if it has a high energy signature. But the battlecloak simply refers to the ability to cloak at random and not depend of being in or out of combat to engage in cloaking. This is something that every cloaking Trek ship is suposed to have, regardless of it's size.
Unfortunately, for Klingons, that is an inescapable fact.
The Klingons did not invent anything, they stole or bartered for pretty much all their technology.
If it had not been for one very unfortunate Hurq crew, the Klingons wouldn't have warp drives, let alone know there were other species out there!
I can't even begin to explain how wrong this statement is. I tell you as a person who watched every Star Trek show from TOS to ENT and has a selection of Klingon themed books in his library that the Klingons are far from being stupid. They're stubborn, strongly keep to traditions and their society is dominated by the warrior caste and are agressive by origin, but they are very far from being stupid.
I think you mixed them up with the Ferengi, those are the guys that stole or bartered for every piece of their technology.
If anything, Klingon engineers have proven to be superior to Starfleet ones. The ships they designed more than 2 centuries ago are still on pair with anything new Starfleet throws at them.
Basically, a Hurq vessel crashlanded on Qo'nos.
And while they were repairing their ship to leave, the Klingons slaughtered the crew and took the ship to study.
While it no doubt takes a degree of technical expertise to learn how to copy someone else's ship, it's not the same as genuinely inventing it yourself!
Especially when the instruction manuals explain how to build and repair it.
As oposed to the U.S.S. Enterprise-E travelling through time from the future inspiring Zefran Cochrane and Geordi La Forge helping ignite the humanity's first warp drive? :rolleyes:
Okay, I don't follow the logic of that.
If the Defiant is converted to a BOP analogue, it will stop us from using a ship that Starfleet characters do not have access to?
Please excuse me for being blunt, but it looks like you're saying if we want a BOP, it's being held out as a carrot to make us go over to the KDF side.
No, that's not what I'm saying. There are more than enough carrots in STO everywhere as it is. :P
What I'm saying is that because the Bird of Prey has a battlecloak rather than a regular cloak it makes sacrifices all over the place. It has 9k less hull than a Defiant, it has 0.1 shield mod. less than a Defiant and it has a weapon slot less than a Defiant.
So why should a KDF player face restrictions to obtain a battlecloak and a Fed. player playing a faction that is not suposed to have a cloak in the first place can use the battlecloak without sacrificing anything like the BoP did to obtain that ability?
I can't even begin to explain how wrong this statement is. I tell you as a person who watched every Star Trek show from TOS to ENT and has a selection of Klingon themed books in his library that the Klingons are far from being stupid. They're stubborn, strongly keep to traditions and their society is dominated by the warrior caste and are agressive by origin, but they are very far from being stupid.
I think you mixed them up with the Ferengi, those are the guys that stole or bartered for every piece of their technology.
Oh I have no doubt under normal circumstances, the Klingons would have made the advances necessary.
The problem is, by obtaining a warp capable Hurq ship before they were advanced enough to invent them for themselves caused them to skip a vital step socialogically.
In essence, it's like middle ages feudal lords in the 24th century.
Without that Hurq ship, the KDF would not have achieved true space travel on their own for another 10 centuries.
Which is part of the reason I resent Klingons so much, attitudes like they embody don't belong to a spacefaring culture, but a bygone era that most cultures have moved beyond long ago.
Also, in the Novelization of Way of the Warrior, when speaking to Sisko, Worf says something to the effect of the fact that Klingons created nothing, they took it by force or they bought it from someone.
As oposed to the U.S.S. Enterprise-E travelling through time from the future inspiring Zefran Cochrane and Geordi La Forge helping ignite the humanity's first warp drive? :rolleyes:
They only repaired the damage the Borg inflicted on the Phoenix to put the timeline back the way it was.
Nothing else changed, Zefram still created the warp drive all on his own.
What I'm saying is that because the Bird of Prey has a battlecloak rather than a regular cloak it makes sacrifices all over the place. It has 9k less hull than a Defiant, it has 0.1 shield mod. less than a Defiant and it has a weapon slot less than a Defiant.
So why should a KDF player face restrictions to obtain a battlecloak and a Fed. player playing a faction that is not suposed to have a cloak in the first place can use the battlecloak without sacrificing anything like the BoP did to obtain that ability?
So buff up a Hegh'Ta BOP to match Defiant stats and everybody wins!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Unfortunately, for Klingons, that is an inescapable fact.
The Klingons did not invent anything, they stole or bartered for pretty much all their technology.
If it had not been for one very unfortunate Hurq crew, the Klingons wouldn't have warp drives, let alone know there were other species out there!
Basically, a Hurq vessel crashlanded on Qo'nos.
And while they were repairing their ship to leave, the Klingons slaughtered the crew and took the ship to study.
While it no doubt takes a degree of technical expertise to learn how to copy someone else's ship, it's not the same as genuinely inventing it yourself!
Especially when the instruction manuals explain how to build and repair it.
You've been drinking the fed Kool-Aid too long if you believe that fan written drivel about the Hurq and Klingon technology.
Its not even close to accepted Hurq / Klingon history. Read the memory Alpha info on the Hur'q pulled from the TV shows. Hur'q - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek wiki
"
"Hur'q" was a Klingon word meaning "outsider," and was the name given by the Klingons to a species from the Gamma Quadrant which invaded and plundered Qo'noS in the 14th century. Among the most valuable artifacts stolen by the Hur'q was the Sword of Kahless, which was only recovered a thousand years later, in 2372. (DS9: "The Sword of Kahless")
In 2154, Doctor Antaak referred to the Augment virus afflicting the Klingon Empire as "the gravest threat since the Hur'q invasion." (ENT: "Affliction")
Hur'q planet, The sword of KahlessA former Hur'q outpost in the Gamma Quadrant.
By 2372, the Hur'q were extinct, and their stolen artifacts unrecovered. In that year, a Vulcan geological survey team mining bakrinium on an uncharted planet in the Gamma Quadrant accidentally uncovered ancient ruins which belonged to the Hur'q. This led to a sequence of events in which Dahar master Kor, Lieutenant Commander Worf, and Lieutenant Commander Jadzia Dax were able to finally recover the long-lost Sword of Kahless, although they eventually decided not to return it to the Empire. (DS9: "The Sword of Kahless")
The Hur'q were also featured in the video game Star Trek: Invasion, where they came back through a wormhole and had to be stopped from entering this area of the Galaxy to prevent them from taking it over. They were insectoid scavengers, whose physiology resembled that of army ants and the armor of the samurai.
According to the manual for Star Trek: Klingon Academy, the Klingons acquired warp drive from the Hur'q.
While they don't make an on-screen appearance, the Hur'q are hinted to be behind the Fek'Ihri Horde's attack in Star Trek Online. "
The Hur'q invasion is a known event , not fan written or pseudo-canon in any way. The Hur'Q invade and subjugated the Klingon species for years before leaving.
And while yes the Klingons received a great boost in their technology by back engineering those examples of technology left by the Ur'q when they left the Klingon Empire was not a civilization of idiot brutes by any means.
Another excerpt from Memory Alpha, Klingon history
In the 14th century the Klingons suffered a devastating conquest and sack by the Hur'q. The Hur'q were a powerful race from the Gamma Quadrant possibly using the Bajoran wormhole to reach Qo'noS. Although they did not stay long, either because of their nomadic way of life or because of fierce resistance from the Klingons, they did not leave before taking many valuable cultural treasures, including the revered Sword of Kahless. (ENT: "Affliction"; DS9: "The Sword of Kahless")
It is probable that the only reason the Hur'q did not completely subjugate Qo'noS is because their attacks took the form of viking-style raids, instead of attempts to take and hold the planet. The non-canon Star Trek: Klingon Academy video game elaborates that when the ancient Klingons drove off the Hur'q raiders, they were able to capture much of their technology, and from this were able to reverse-engineer how to build their own warp-drive equipped spaceships. This is what allowed the relatively non-technology oriented Klingons to make the societal jump to being an interstellar power. It also explains why Klingon warship technology is only roughly on-par with Starfleet technology, despite the fact that they possessed warp drive since 700 years before humans did. Their technology is mostly imitative, based on designed acquired through conquest or reverse-engineered from enemy designs.
Klingons as a species where Non- Technology oriented during 14th century Earth Medieval times in relation. That's about the time of the windmills, sailing ships, European gunpowder use and the renaissance period for humans and their level of technology.
Yet the Klingons as a species where able to back engineer and learn an alien technology well enough to leap 700 years ahead of humans during the same time period.
Hardly the actions of a race one would consider so stupid as to "not invent anything, they stole or bartered for pretty much all their technology" as you believe it.
Or a capability beyond the Klingon species that could be seen as just scripted flexibility to solve a problem since the Human species has been given the same intellectual ability in our own science fiction genre.
It would only be an arrogant assumption to think only Humans are capable of intelligence and creativity, yet your opinion of Klingons shows an level of such an outlook in how you afford them no more substance of mentality than one of your on savage ancestors where by the Europeans during the 14th century.
Heck, even Kirk was attributed as saying, " barbarians do not build star empires.." when speaking about the Klingons, so I find you lack of knowledge and rather dim view of Klingons as an oddity and it confuses me.
Even if you do not like the Klingon as a species, hate their ways & mannerisms, see their society as unfit to function and think they hold no value in the grand scheme of things, I find you inability to see what the Klingons have been given as accomplishments as a culture within the IP borders on the blindness some people in my southern part of my nation had against different looking but none the less intelligent anyone else peoples in their own midst 100 of years ago.
This is what confuses me.
You fail to see the level of technology they do possess by the person who invented them first and the existing evidence that later followed in his legacy that rebukes your belief that they do not posses the drive or intelligence needed to be what they are in fact, an Empire that encompasses whole star systems.
Oh I have no doubt under normal circumstances, the Klingons would have made the advances necessary.
The problem is, by obtaining a warp capable Hurq ship before they were advanced enough to invent them for themselves caused them to skip a vital step socialogically.
In essence, it's like middle ages feudal lords in the 24th century.
Without that Hurq ship, the KDF would not have achieved true space travel on their own for another 10 centuries.
You have no basis of fact for this belief. The Klingons where invade in roughly the 14th century time period. They where basically no less savage or feudal than Humans at the same time and you have no evidence to support that they would not have grown at a similar technological or intellectual speed as humans did in those centuries to come to create a warp drive.
No argument can be given that the invasion did not boost Klingon advancements by a great deal. 700 years ahead of humans in fact at the time.
It was a great boon for the Klingon as a species but hardly demotes them as idiots considering they did manage with basically a 14th century grasp of technology to not only learn to understand the Hurq tech but use it to grow as a species.
Which is part of the reason I resent Klingons so much, attitudes like they embody don't belong to a spacefaring culture, but a bygone era that most cultures have moved beyond long ago.
Cultures only within Gene Roddenberry's Utopian Human outlook. We still have wars, greed and all the old sins of yore in full swing today. We've even seen them in the fictional future of Star Trek.
We have no evidence to support the belief that a more technologically heavily advanced species will be a peaceful no violent species that do not portray such attitudes as you hate among the Klingons.
They may have just grown beyond killing their own kind and really see anything else as substandard.
In fact modern science is actually leaning to the side that any alien species we Humans may encounter may be no more peaceful than we are currently with ourselves. A lot is based on the idea that Predators tend to be the species that move quicker into higher brain function and intellectualism.
So buff up a Hegh'Ta BOP to match Defiant stats and everybody wins!
Only those whom like vanilla gameplay will win as the feds no will longer have a Defiant that stands out in space combat gameplay than the KDF BoPs, or vice versa. It will all just feel the same.
Okay, since you opened the can of worms about the cloak, I shall now hit you over the head with it and shove it down your throat.
The thing that has been my most vicious bone of contention with fanatical KDF is the fact that the Defiant cloak is completely erroneous in terms of game mechanics.
Simply put, it's got the wrong cloak!
The Defiant is a warship, pure and simple.
It's not made to pull punches or play fair!
In the show, the Defiant has a battle cloak.
I know this for a fact because while the Jem'Hadar are firing on the Defiant, Sisko gives the order to "cloak the Defiant and get the hell out of here!".
Also, it's not even Starfleet technology.
The cloaking device for the Defiant was supplied by the Romulans, who, as we've seen now that the faction is out, do use battle cloaks.
And when I pointed this out to a levelheaded KDF fan, he agreed with me that this should be the case.
He also conceded my next point:
That KDF fanatics are so obstinate that Starfleet not have a battle cloak, they are so openly opposed to the suggestion they will fight it on the principle "it's not fair that Starfleet get a battle cloak because we want to be the only faction with battle cloaks".
Although, I've never asked the question, I assume they would be even more opposed to the idea of the Defiant getting universal BOFF stations.
Because this would convert the Defiant into a Bird Of Prey equivalent and oh no, we can't have that! <heavy sarcasm>
Personally, I'm heavily in favor of the Defiant both obtaining a Battle Cloak and Universal stations.
Now, girls and boys, women and men, watch as the rock throwing begins! :rolleyes:
You have to be kidding right? A innate Battle cloak and 5 Uni Boff stations?? LOL the Fleet defiant would be the most OP ship the game has ever seen - it would smash the Jem Bug into pieces(let alone every other ship)
The Defiant could smash 3 bugs, maybe even 4-5 if they got lucky!
When the Defiant fought the Lakota, they had it at the point where one more salvo would have destroyed it.
And let's not forget the Mirror Defiant which took on a Negh'var with only a fighter for support and was tearing it to shreds!
So, yeah, it's meant to be overpowered. :rolleyes:
Keep in mind this was a ship invented to fight the Borg when no other Starfleet vessel was even remotely capable of that feat, even the Starfleet flagship.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Yeah them script writers really made the Defiant a marysue for DS9 to bolster the IP at a time when its popularity was wanning.
The Defiant as it is now ingame it correctly represents the often scripted vessel we saw in DS9. Its tough, hits hard and is nimble.
Oh Jez, really. I can't help, but what was title of this thread? "Defiant needs battle cloak"?
Somehow too many threads reads like this:
Post #1 Klingons are facing extinction!
Post #2 Yes, thats true.
Post #3 No, thats not true!
Post #4 Defiant NEEDS battle cloak!!!
Post #5 Klingons needs more content!
Post #6 Defiant NEEDS all universal Boff-Stations!
Post #7 Klingons are facing extinction more then ever!
Post #8 Why do i only have 7 Weapon Slots on my Defiant?
[...]
Im just waiting for someone to really up the anti by pointing out that the only Defiant ever to show cloaking ability was blown the f*** up by the Breen during the first battle of Chin'toka , and the replacement Defiant never demonstrated it could cloak.
Yeah, a lot of people like to focus on how many ships the Defiant blew up. They seem to conveniently forget that the Defiant was NOT a tough ship. It took a couple hits and it was crippled. It was powerful, but fragile, and yeah, the Breen blew it the f@&# up.
Unfortunately, Escorts are not the glass cannons they were always meant to be. Hell, they're as tanky as some cruisers ffs.
Oh Jez, really. I can't help, but what was title of this thread? "Defiant needs battle cloak"?
Somehow too many threads reads like this:
Post #1 Klingons are facing extinction!
Post #2 Yes, thats true.
Post #3 No, thats not true!
Post #4 Defiant NEEDS battle cloak!!!
Post #5 Klingons needs more content!
Post #6 Defiant NEEDS all universal Boff-Stations!
Post #7 Klingons are facing extinction more then ever!
Post #8 Why do i only have 7 Weapon Slots on my Defiant?
[...]
Yeah they really need to Buff tha under powered Fleet defiant:
Innate Phased battle cloak
50K Hull
5 Fore weapons slots
6 Tac consoles
5 Eng consoles
5 Science consoles
2 Cmd Uni stactions
3 Lt Cmd Uni stations
30 power to Weapons systems
I think that might satisfy the Defiant owners - possibly?
Or just add that to the list of Fed charater traits.
Sadly with the focas to Romulans - I bet the Defiant gets a buff before there are any new c-store kdf ships or buffs to KDF ships - that's how unlikely it is.
LoR will be the last of anything for the KDF(non-romulan) in my opinion.
Lmao @ I Win Console. Defiant is OP and I fly it and BoP. I still prefer BoP for PvP and Defiant for PvE.
Feds are whiny cry babies who always get their way. Witness plasmonic leach and bc giveaways aka Fed aligned Roms.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Why? Well, I don't like that the Romulan ships all have 40 energy in the power levels for each category, the whole 'one ship per tier up until near the end' kinda ruins it too since by then I won't be used to the escort feel of the lighter Warbird. Then there's the new KDF tutorial where you get command of your own ship in the best manner possible: Killing the coward and traitor of a Captain after he promotes you to First Officer (original first officer died trying to stop him) and then take your brand new position and immediately start taking out Starfleet ships and capture Franklin Drake, even getting him to the First City where the godly Warden Gazzan's voice actor demonstrates what the Gorn have learned from the Shatner School of Acting. Plus I just love playing as a Gorn, I could never do that as a Romulan character.
Oh, and punching a Ferengi too, easily one of the best parts of the tutorial missions. Not 'Silence the Ferengi', not 'Hit the Ferengi', not 'Strike the Ferengi', but 'Punch the Ferengi...' and then you do it, putting him on the floor, out cold.
If Romulans are allowed to Join the KDF and have access to Romulan ships and KDF ships and gear - what possible reason would any new player roll a Klingon toon?
I mean you can roll a Rommie and come into a KDF fleet and have access to all KDF ships and equipment and you get all the Romulan shinnies to?
All the old KDF players are stuck with just the KDF gear as I see it now.
So unless I am wrong - other than Klingon fandom - what possible reason is there to start/keep a Klingon toon when you can - or a new player can get access to all your stuff+their new stuff?
So those fleets that built up bases - you get to build ships and gear for the Romulans - that you wont have access to as a Klingon!!
I hope I am wrong - but if this is true - the Klingon race is going to almost disappear in STO.
Heh, sorry, not trying to troll or anything, but I just see Grumpy Cat going "Good."
Comments
Need I remind you who modified the cloaking device so that a ship could launch torpedoes while staying cloaked? It took 12 years until we saw something like that on a Romulan vessel. Don't underestimate the Klingons.
we dont know who modified the cloak, and if you watch it again you will know that the Romulan ambassador was in on it as well so who is to say the rommies didn't do it?
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
Faulty speculation is faulty. What is to say the humans involved where not the masterminds of the whole assassination and warmongering since they where there as well and the Romulan was merely a pawn.
Considering that the explosion and plot happened so fast its not feasible that the romulans would suddenly loan a fire while cloak device to start a war when they could just have fired the torps and disapeered with none the wiser.
Since the story went the way it did the dacts point more tpwards the KDF being the creator of their own version of a fire whe cloaked technology instead.
R.I.P
I think you missed my point. I never said it would mean the end of Klingons in STO. I'm talking game mechanics and balance issues here. I don't care about what the Feds. have or don't have.
But the statement "Let the Feds. have what they want." is utterly wrong. I'm going to tell you why. I and all the other KDF and Romulan players are human beings that live on Earth just like the Feds. I'm a paying customer in STO as much as the next guy.
So why can a person just because it happens to play Fed. have a battlecloaking ship with 10console slots, 5 of which tactical ones, 33k hull and 0.9 shield modifier, while at the same time I must give up 9k hull, 0.1 shield mod and a weapon slot to have the same ability?
Eh sorry, but that's not how this game is played hehe...
If you use canon as an argument to get a battlecloak for the Defiant, I will use the same argument to get a battlecloak for my Vor'cha. Both are shown to preform cloaking maneuvers whenever they feel like it, or what we call 'battlecloak' in STO.
Also the old argument Klingons are stupid, but Humans are awesome doesn't work.
The raider class are the Birds of Prey. The military designation of the BoPs in the KDF is raider class of starships.
The size of the ship and the power signature linked to a sizeable ship limits how effective the cloak can be.
A relatively small ship has a more effective cloak, since less is being hidden.
Also, O'Brien says something to the effect of "the Defiant has a larger then normal power signature, so the cloak might not be hiding us effectively".
That's why I assume a larger ship can't battlecloak properly, a sizeable cloaking field is not as effective as a smaller one.
Unfortunately, for Klingons, that is an inescapable fact.
The Klingons did not invent anything, they stole or bartered for pretty much all their technology.
If it had not been for one very unfortunate Hurq crew, the Klingons wouldn't have warp drives, let alone know there were other species out there!
Basically, a Hurq vessel crashlanded on Qo'nos.
And while they were repairing their ship to leave, the Klingons slaughtered the crew and took the ship to study.
While it no doubt takes a degree of technical expertise to learn how to copy someone else's ship, it's not the same as genuinely inventing it yourself!
Especially when the instruction manuals explain how to build and repair it.
Okay, I don't follow the logic of that.
If the Defiant is converted to a BOP analogue, it will stop us from using a ship that Starfleet characters do not have access to?
Please excuse me for being blunt, but it looks like you're saying if we want a BOP, it's being held out as a carrot to make us go over to the KDF side.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Well, I think that we can all agree that the cloak works just like the writers of a random episode of Trek wanted for that particular episode. :P
You are correct that a bigger ship's power signature would make the cloak less effective, but it has nothing to do with battlecloak. We actually have this mechanic in game through the Bortasqu' battlecruiser. In STO, a well equiped science ship with cloak detecting abilities and high aux is suposed to be able to start noticing cloaked ships when they get closer than 10km to the said ship. Because the Bortasqu' is huge it has a huge energy signature to power it and therefore a cloaked Bortasqu' in STO is suposed to be seen by the same mentioned sci.ship at the range of 15km (or 20km, I don't remember just how much more distance it was). And from the description in the dev.blog of the new borgified ships that come from the Tal'Shiar lockbox will probably have the same mechanic applied to them, because their cloak was described as significantly weaker by the devs.
However the energy signatures have nothing to do with battlecloak. A ship can be detected more easily while under cloak if it has a high energy signature. But the battlecloak simply refers to the ability to cloak at random and not depend of being in or out of combat to engage in cloaking. This is something that every cloaking Trek ship is suposed to have, regardless of it's size.
I can't even begin to explain how wrong this statement is. I tell you as a person who watched every Star Trek show from TOS to ENT and has a selection of Klingon themed books in his library that the Klingons are far from being stupid. They're stubborn, strongly keep to traditions and their society is dominated by the warrior caste and are agressive by origin, but they are very far from being stupid.
I think you mixed them up with the Ferengi, those are the guys that stole or bartered for every piece of their technology.
If anything, Klingon engineers have proven to be superior to Starfleet ones. The ships they designed more than 2 centuries ago are still on pair with anything new Starfleet throws at them.
As oposed to the U.S.S. Enterprise-E travelling through time from the future inspiring Zefran Cochrane and Geordi La Forge helping ignite the humanity's first warp drive? :rolleyes:
No, that's not what I'm saying. There are more than enough carrots in STO everywhere as it is. :P
What I'm saying is that because the Bird of Prey has a battlecloak rather than a regular cloak it makes sacrifices all over the place. It has 9k less hull than a Defiant, it has 0.1 shield mod. less than a Defiant and it has a weapon slot less than a Defiant.
So why should a KDF player face restrictions to obtain a battlecloak and a Fed. player playing a faction that is not suposed to have a cloak in the first place can use the battlecloak without sacrificing anything like the BoP did to obtain that ability?
Oh I have no doubt under normal circumstances, the Klingons would have made the advances necessary.
The problem is, by obtaining a warp capable Hurq ship before they were advanced enough to invent them for themselves caused them to skip a vital step socialogically.
In essence, it's like middle ages feudal lords in the 24th century.
Without that Hurq ship, the KDF would not have achieved true space travel on their own for another 10 centuries.
Which is part of the reason I resent Klingons so much, attitudes like they embody don't belong to a spacefaring culture, but a bygone era that most cultures have moved beyond long ago.
Also, in the Novelization of Way of the Warrior, when speaking to Sisko, Worf says something to the effect of the fact that Klingons created nothing, they took it by force or they bought it from someone.
They only repaired the damage the Borg inflicted on the Phoenix to put the timeline back the way it was.
Nothing else changed, Zefram still created the warp drive all on his own.
So buff up a Hegh'Ta BOP to match Defiant stats and everybody wins!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
You've been drinking the fed Kool-Aid too long if you believe that fan written drivel about the Hurq and Klingon technology.
Its not even close to accepted Hurq / Klingon history. Read the memory Alpha info on the Hur'q pulled from the TV shows. Hur'q - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek wiki
"
And while yes the Klingons received a great boost in their technology by back engineering those examples of technology left by the Ur'q when they left the Klingon Empire was not a civilization of idiot brutes by any means.
Another excerpt from Memory Alpha, Klingon history
Klingons as a species where Non- Technology oriented during 14th century Earth Medieval times in relation. That's about the time of the windmills, sailing ships, European gunpowder use and the renaissance period for humans and their level of technology.
Yet the Klingons as a species where able to back engineer and learn an alien technology well enough to leap 700 years ahead of humans during the same time period.
Hardly the actions of a race one would consider so stupid as to "not invent anything, they stole or bartered for pretty much all their technology" as you believe it.
Or a capability beyond the Klingon species that could be seen as just scripted flexibility to solve a problem since the Human species has been given the same intellectual ability in our own science fiction genre.
It would only be an arrogant assumption to think only Humans are capable of intelligence and creativity, yet your opinion of Klingons shows an level of such an outlook in how you afford them no more substance of mentality than one of your on savage ancestors where by the Europeans during the 14th century.
Heck, even Kirk was attributed as saying, " barbarians do not build star empires.." when speaking about the Klingons, so I find you lack of knowledge and rather dim view of Klingons as an oddity and it confuses me.
Even if you do not like the Klingon as a species, hate their ways & mannerisms, see their society as unfit to function and think they hold no value in the grand scheme of things, I find you inability to see what the Klingons have been given as accomplishments as a culture within the IP borders on the blindness some people in my southern part of my nation had against different looking but none the less intelligent anyone else peoples in their own midst 100 of years ago.
This is what confuses me.
You fail to see the level of technology they do possess by the person who invented them first and the existing evidence that later followed in his legacy that rebukes your belief that they do not posses the drive or intelligence needed to be what they are in fact, an Empire that encompasses whole star systems.
R.I.P
R.I.P
You have to be kidding right? A innate Battle cloak and 5 Uni Boff stations?? LOL the Fleet defiant would be the most OP ship the game has ever seen - it would smash the Jem Bug into pieces(let alone every other ship)
Please review the answer to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc
The Defiant could smash 3 bugs, maybe even 4-5 if they got lucky!
When the Defiant fought the Lakota, they had it at the point where one more salvo would have destroyed it.
And let's not forget the Mirror Defiant which took on a Negh'var with only a fighter for support and was tearing it to shreds!
So, yeah, it's meant to be overpowered. :rolleyes:
Keep in mind this was a ship invented to fight the Borg when no other Starfleet vessel was even remotely capable of that feat, even the Starfleet flagship.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
The Defiant as it is now ingame it correctly represents the often scripted vessel we saw in DS9. Its tough, hits hard and is nimble.
R.I.P
I'm quite fond of how it performs in game. I'd hate to see it "fixed" when it ain't broke.
Somehow too many threads reads like this:
Post #1 Klingons are facing extinction!
Post #2 Yes, thats true.
Post #3 No, thats not true!
Post #4 Defiant NEEDS battle cloak!!!
Post #5 Klingons needs more content!
Post #6 Defiant NEEDS all universal Boff-Stations!
Post #7 Klingons are facing extinction more then ever!
Post #8 Why do i only have 7 Weapon Slots on my Defiant?
[...]
That would just be mean though
Unfortunately, Escorts are not the glass cannons they were always meant to be. Hell, they're as tanky as some cruisers ffs.
LoL - now some people have solo'd ISE in an Escort - why is there any need for any other ship in game other than a Tacscort?
Yeah they really need to Buff tha under powered Fleet defiant:
Innate Phased battle cloak
50K Hull
5 Fore weapons slots
6 Tac consoles
5 Eng consoles
5 Science consoles
2 Cmd Uni stactions
3 Lt Cmd Uni stations
30 power to Weapons systems
I think that might satisfy the Defiant owners - possibly?
You missed off i plot armour built in console, its similar to the intrepid Rs ablative armour but make the Defiant invulnerable. Oh and its passive.
That is silly - what about a special "I win" console that blows up any KDF ship within 50km?
Make it have a long cool down - like 30 seconds!
They could even call it ''Captain Sisko's m***r******g pimp hand'' console in homage to the good Captain.
R.I.P
Or just add that to the list of Fed charater traits.
Sadly with the focas to Romulans - I bet the Defiant gets a buff before there are any new c-store kdf ships or buffs to KDF ships - that's how unlikely it is.
LoR will be the last of anything for the KDF(non-romulan) in my opinion.
Elite Defense Stovokor
Feds are whiny cry babies who always get their way. Witness plasmonic leach and bc giveaways aka Fed aligned Roms.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Oh, and punching a Ferengi too, easily one of the best parts of the tutorial missions. Not 'Silence the Ferengi', not 'Hit the Ferengi', not 'Strike the Ferengi', but 'Punch the Ferengi...' and then you do it, putting him on the floor, out cold.
Heh, sorry, not trying to troll or anything, but I just see Grumpy Cat going "Good."
Nah, that won't do.
You forgot to include a singularity core with it's new machanic. I mean, we can't have the Romulans have something that Feds. don't, right? :P:D