Hey, beam gods, what are you guys doing for single target DPS? I'm a dismal failure. Is it just beams are not quite as good single target?
Edit: I should define dismal failure, I'm still beating your average pug, but my torp build just rips things up single target. Like, I do damn near as much damage in an AE situation with my single target torp build going after one at a time as I can get blasting AE thru the same situation. Of course, this requires aiming an Atrox... Am I just expecting too much from the beams single target?
Use a romulan torp w/ 2 PWOs and a copy of High yield 1 if you can spare it. Lacking the 2nd ens tac is what makes the excelsior under performing in it's versatility, its just a AoE agro magnet.
Hey, beam gods, what are you guys doing for single target DPS? I'm a dismal failure. Is it just beams are not quite as good single target?
Edit: I should define dismal failure, I'm still beating your average pug, but my torp build just rips things up single target. Am I just expecting too much?
Hi there, Kimmym.
Beams can be very effective against a single target. My Tac captain pulls an average of 13k dps, and I've broken 20k on Tac Cubes, and the Cure Carrier. I'm running a Fleet Defiant.
My Load out is...
TT1, THY2, BFAW3, OMEGA3
TT1 BETA 1, BFAW3
HY1
EPTW1, EPTS2
HE1, TSS2
3 piece Borg
Enhanced Plasma Manifold, Borg Console, Zero Point Console.
Field Generator, -threat +plasma damage shield emitter(Romulan)
5 Plasma Infusers
2 -15% attack pattern cooldown doffs, 1 shield distribution, 1 damage vs borg, 1 damage control engineers.
Everything is purple for considering mark/rarity.
Running full pedal to the medal, my beams, all 5 +Bfaw shots, are hitting between 3-5k with 7-9k crits, and Im running an all human crew so my crit could be higher with romulan doffs.
Single target Bfaw + Tac buffs will melt an elite cube in a matter of a few seconds, the wide angle quantum torp is icing on the cake.
Downside to a build like this is my ship, the USS FIREBIRD, draws a lot of threat. Hence full Borg set. With the field generator I have around 7k shields per facing. Plasma Manifold gives a great burst of healing combined with HE/TSS. That said, Escorts are squishy and will get popped by Gates and Cubes unless a dedicated tanking vessel is present.
Well don't I feel sheepish, if it is as simple as using BFAW single target lol... I've been trying all kinds of timing combat breaks to slip a BO boff in without downtime...
More testing awaits! Thanks for the build, I may have to move to a cruiser and an escort for more thorough testing. I started in a cruiser but it made me pine for my baby.
Edit: I'm wondering what that build would feel like in my beta vector... going full speed around a cube.... I have to do it once even if its just for the lulz!
Edit: BFaW is continueing to amaze me. It's one of those skills I dismissed earlier on in my play as unreliable, but its proving its worth more and more each day.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Yes to the second question, Rapid Fire benefits cannons more than Fire at Will/Beam Overload benefits beams. IE Rapid Fire adds more damage than Fire at Will and it benefits all your Cannon's rather than the 1 Beam Array that Beam Overload is restricted to. Beam Power drain also means that an unbuffed 3x Dual Beam Bank setup vs. a 3x Dual Heavy Cannon setup will see the beams lose out. (Plus they lack synergy with rear weapons.)
Not necessarily true, DBBs put out a good amount of damage and have a more generous arc, so they do good damage sooner and keep doing it later. Also DBBs with BFaW are almost identical in behavior ot DHCs with CSV, if you can keep a group of targets in your DBB forward cone you can spank em all pretty good. I do that a lot with my battlecruiser. Turrets in the rear and DBBs up front can work very well. It wil fall apart quick if you add a single full-coverage beam array though.
One of the other things I'm coming to appreciate in my testing, actually being able to hit mobs above me is great! So many times in my escort circling trying to get my cannons on something right on top of me... my beams hit them anyway.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Also DBBs with BFaW are almost identical in behavior ot DHCs with CSV, if you can keep a group of targets in your DBB forward cone you can spank em all pretty good.
True but I was focusing on single target damage, in which case Rapid Fire will outdo Scatter Volley as well.
The real question is if the damage from Fire At Will'd DBB's makes up for the lack of Rapid Fire/Scatter Volleyed turrets?
Also oridjerra that is a very unorthodox build and it looks quite fun! Instead of focusing on the forward arc you simply fly circles around everything while cycling Fire at Will. Interesting and horizon expanding.
I've never invested in tetryon, so I farmed up some of the fancy ones from "The New Link."
mk xi blue, but they have a 10% proc rate. Used mk xi blue consoles, too.
Damage was down, but I would expect that with the quality of the gear. Still repectable.
Also, I am noticing a difference in my plasma proc damage. It is in fact higher when using non-plasma weapons. The increased proc rate is making a difference.
My conclusion is that the current state of plasma is balanced. It increases your DPS. Applying the same increase to other weapons gives you a relative increase. No balance is ever perfect, but if you are going to niggle over 200-500 dps, when you are gaining situational utility such as a phaser proc or a shield drain... Can't have your cake and eat it too. Plasma is by definition a DPS weapon (yeah.. I know, that sounds funny) it procs a DoT. It should pull ahead of a utility weapon type such as a phaser.
The margins are small at best.
Edit: This is in regards to beam weaponry. I have more beam test to run before I even think of testing anything else.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I run the [+pla] [-th] romulan consoles on my ship. My polaron beams already do 8,500 dps on their own, but that added hull burn is like adding insult to injury to those elite tac cubes.
I've debated running the dual beams for a bit. 4 dual beams up front, on the back the cutting beam, rom torp and 2 turrets. It might be interesting to test it, you lose out on the romulan experimental array, some single target diversity in favour of more control on your targets, and a lot less damage loss on the always problematic approach.
I just want to point out the nostalgia of pre F2P is giving yall alot of rose colored glasses. Before the righn of DHC Dual Cannons where the go to equipment, beams where never good at dealing damage, they where beams lol.
I prefer the game the way it is now compared to then. You needed to have at least one EPS console to sustain any kind of damage, and cruisers they needed 2 of them lol along with DHC odd balls. You needed science consoles to do stuff, I can't remember what stuff anymore but they used to do stuff lol.
Now you need tach consoles, some armor and uni consoles its alot more simple.
Some interesting results overall. I like that there are a lot of reports of decent damage, even more so surprising in BFAW. I still question whether it is padding or meaningful damage though. (Ie. look at other mmos where AoE pulled higher 'dps' but was less useful than true single target)
I would still like the Romulan Experimental Array available in flavors other than plasma, as it is a great boon the beam ships damage. Additionally while I think FaW is a decent aoe power, Beam Overload needs to be looked it, as most people do not run it, and it has crippling downsides that Cannon Rapid Fire does not.
I am also curious in your testing, have you been using a high rank of EPtW? I have been told repeatedly that EPtW 1 is the only useful one, and that 3 is useless, so I currently run EPtS 3 and EPtW 1, is this true or no?
And what is the opinion on Beta vs FAW? Like in an Ody with universal set to Tac, is it better to have two copies of Beta or FAW?
I've debated running the dual beams for a bit. 4 dual beams up front, on the back the cutting beam, rom torp and 2 turrets. It might be interesting to test it, you lose out on the romulan experimental array, some single target diversity in favour of more control on your targets, and a lot less damage loss on the always problematic approach.
I would be interested to see this, as DBBs are quite cool (and shooting phasers forward is more in line with canon, which I like doing.) I really wish we had Beam Turrets, which would make going DBB's better overall. Still love to see your parses.
I'm not the most experienced player around but I think the reason the best beam builds use plasma is because of the experimental beam being plasma not the plasma Proc or anything special about plasma damage.
Some interesting results overall. I like that there are a lot of reports of decent damage, even more so surprising in BFAW. I still question whether it is padding or meaningful damage though. (Ie. look at other mmos where AoE pulled higher 'dps' but was less useful than true single target)
I would still like the Romulan Experimental Array available in flavors other than plasma, as it is a great boon the beam ships damage. Additionally while I think FaW is a decent aoe power, Beam Overload needs to be looked it, as most people do not run it, and it has crippling downsides that Cannon Rapid Fire does not.
I am also curious in your testing, have you been using a high rank of EPtW? I have been told repeatedly that EPtW 1 is the only useful one, and that 3 is useless, so I currently run EPtS 3 and EPtW 1, is this true or no?
And what is the opinion on Beta vs FAW? Like in an Ody with universal set to Tac, is it better to have two copies of Beta or FAW?
I would be interested to see this, as DBBs are quite cool (and shooting phasers forward is more in line with canon, which I like doing.) I really wish we had Beam Turrets, which would make going DBB's better overall. Still love to see your parses.
Bfaws will net you more damage than 2 beta's
The only consideration you should take with EPTW's is how much over-power(125+)you need to comfortably fire Bfaw without power dip. There are a variety of builds, mostly cruiser based, that one way or another will run at around 160 weapon power or lower + weapon drain resistance-this can even be done without running EPTW at all if you point batteries, run Dem Doffs, AuxToBatteries, and especially if you are an engineer.
Bfaw will always apply it's extra shot on your primary target if no other target is within range. When fighting multiple targets, such as sphere spam, most of the random extra shots are not "wasted" damage-only shots hitting the Gate or the Transformer prior to generators being destroyed is wasted. 2 bfaws will keep sphere spam steadly dwindling, add in other aoe-torp spread, ewp, gravity well, etc to knock them down even faster. 3 beamboats running good setups will literally vaporize a pack of spheres before your second bfaw can be fired.
I'm not the most experienced player around but I think the reason the best beam builds use plasma is because of the experimental beam being plasma not the plasma Proc or anything special about plasma damage.
That's probably one of the reasons but cruisers also tend to have fairly good amount of science slots for romulan plasma consoles while they aren't the single reason it can becuase any ship with a lot of tact consoles would get similar effect putting i plasma damage consoles.But it makes up for the fact cruiser usually don't have more then 3 tact consoles. Though the new fleet cruiser's are exceptions and I honestly can't wait to pick the assualt cruiser fleet version up. While escorts always do at least at fleet level... The disruptor proc damage bonus doesn't hurt either 10% less resistance on unshielded stf targets can boost damage as well.
But damage consoles stack and they give a flat amount each time so with each shot that can add up to quite a bit with FAW, if you manage to nail down the power drain to manageable levels.
All of that adds up to a lot dps potential at least in long engagements... tac escorts will always have better crits and firing rates( with rapid fire) so plasma's don't offer as much to them, as their burst is so high the dot won't be even noticeable... But plasma proc with longer fight times like I'm seeing in the vids definitely adds up to something.
While testing and getting tired, I was swapping from a sci ody to a tac ody... and I discharged the ship I put the gear onto...
Yeah... it sucks... hard.
So, I am prematurely ending my testing, but with the data I managed to accumulate I'm firmly convinced that both:
Beams are peforming as designed. You may not like the design. You may not like the playstyle. That does not mean they are broken. It means you do not like them.
And
Plasma stacking is balanced, at least where beams are concerned. Stacking embassy plasma consoles with AP beams was actually a DPS increase over going full on plasma, and was on par with romulan plasma. Utility beam types were slightly behind, but I would expect that from a beam with a utility proc rather then a DPS proc or a crit modifier.
You might not like the state of beam weaponry, but it is neither horribly broken nor is plasma the only way to go. It is the fad right now because it is new. When you take the time to actually do thurough testing the numbers are not nearly as skewed as public opinion would lead you to beleive.
I do not expect all, or in fact many, of you to believe what I say. I do not encourage you to. I encourage you to test it for yourself. I don't mean just one run and throw your hands up in the air. Give it a solid go, following advice and treat it as a new skill set. You just might surprise yourself and have a ton of fun along the way.
Now, please, join me in a moment of silence for the crew and cargo of the U.S.S. BEAM BUILD TEST... They were lost so we could better understand the universe around us. May you all rest in peace.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Stacking plasma consoles with AP beams was actually a DPS increase over going full on plasma, and was on par with romulan plasma. Utility beam types were slightly behind, but I would expect that from a beam with a utility proc rather then a DPS proc or a crit modifier.
Can you clarify what you mean by "plasma consoles"
Now, please, join me in a moment of silence for the crew and cargo of the U.S.S. BEAM BUILD TEST... They were lost so we could better understand the universe around us. May you all rest in peace.
While testing and getting tired, I was swapping from a sci ody to a tac ody... and I discharged the ship I put the gear onto...
Yeah... it sucks... hard.
So, I am prematurely ending my testing, but with the data I managed to accumulate I'm firmly convinced that both:
Beams are peforming as designed. You may not like the design. You may not like the playstyle. That does not mean they are broken. It means you do not like them.
And
Plasma stacking is balanced, at least where beams are concerned. Stacking embassy plasma consoles with AP beams was actually a DPS increase over going full on plasma, and was on par with romulan plasma. Utility beam types were slightly behind, but I would expect that from a beam with a utility proc rather then a DPS proc or a crit modifier.
You might not like the state of beam weaponry, but it is neither horribly broken nor is plasma the only way to go. It is the fad right now because it is new. When you take the time to actually do thurough testing the numbers are not nearly as skewed as public opinion would lead you to beleive.
I do not expect all, or in fact many, of you to believe what I say. I do not encourage you to. I encourage you to test it for yourself. I don't mean just one run and throw your hands up in the air. Give it a solid go, following advice and treat it as a new skill set. You just might surprise yourself and have a ton of fun along the way.
Now, please, join me in a moment of silence for the crew and cargo of the U.S.S. BEAM BUILD TEST... They were lost so we could better understand the universe around us. May you all rest in peace.
while I still disagree from my own tests, I do admit mine are on the basis of different build and I don't have the best gear yet, though i can run elite's no problem.
Thanks for testing and sorry for your loss, but If I may ask are you a tac or engi or sci ? if your tac or sci, I'm a engi so that may explain some of the differences I'm seeing.
While testing and getting tired, I was swapping from a sci ody to a tac ody... and I discharged the ship I put the gear onto...
Yeah... it sucks... hard.
So, I am prematurely ending my testing, but with the data I managed to accumulate I'm firmly convinced that both:
Beams are peforming as designed. You may not like the design. You may not like the playstyle. That does not mean they are broken. It means you do not like them.
And
Plasma stacking is balanced, at least where beams are concerned. Stacking embassy plasma consoles with AP beams was actually a DPS increase over going full on plasma, and was on par with romulan plasma. Utility beam types were slightly behind, but I would expect that from a beam with a utility proc rather then a DPS proc or a crit modifier.
You might not like the state of beam weaponry, but it is neither horribly broken nor is plasma the only way to go. It is the fad right now because it is new. When you take the time to actually do thurough testing the numbers are not nearly as skewed as public opinion would lead you to beleive.
I do not expect all, or in fact many, of you to believe what I say. I do not encourage you to. I encourage you to test it for yourself. I don't mean just one run and throw your hands up in the air. Give it a solid go, following advice and treat it as a new skill set. You just might surprise yourself and have a ton of fun along the way.
Now, please, join me in a moment of silence for the crew and cargo of the U.S.S. BEAM BUILD TEST... They were lost so we could better understand the universe around us. May you all rest in peace.
While I am sorry for your loss, my tests show something completely different then your claim. That beams might be working as the devs intended but certainly not as was depicted in the shows and movies of the IP and certainly not as Gene intended them to. If they were working as this game has modified them to do , the entire series would have had canons on every ship and the tactical voyager would have been closer to reality (minus the beams of course) then standard voyager.
Sorry but my tests show that beams aren't as powerful as cannons and while providing ships available from the store and the exchange that can use cannons will fix things in the short term, throwing up ones arms and saying "Well that's all we can do now folks" is not the answer those of us who are paying customers want to hear. Something must be done about escorts and cannons, it's that simple and the rest of you might not like it, but that's called balancing a game, leaving the game as it is imbalanced isn't right nor is it wanted and those of us who are true 1k vets should be heard of the freebies.
So, I am prematurely ending my testing, but with the data I managed to accumulate I'm firmly convinced that both:
Beams are peforming as designed. You may not like the design. You may not like the playstyle. That does not mean they are broken. It means you do not like them.
And
Plasma stacking is balanced, at least where beams are concerned. Stacking embassy plasma consoles with AP beams was actually a DPS increase over going full on plasma, and was on par with romulan plasma. Utility beam types were slightly behind, but I would expect that from a beam with a utility proc rather then a DPS proc or a crit modifier.
You might not like the state of beam weaponry, but it is neither horribly broken nor is plasma the only way to go. It is the fad right now because it is new. When you take the time to actually do thurough testing the numbers are not nearly as skewed as public opinion would lead you to beleive.
I'm currently running my 180 Quantum, 6 Fleet Andorian Phasers [acc]x2 [dmg]x2, and the KCB and in my fleet Sovereign and am getting 12k DPS. So yeah, Plasma isn't the only way to go...
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
Extremely sorry to hear that. My heart goes out to you.
I'm currently running my 180 Quantum, 6 Fleet Andorian Phasers [acc]x2 [dmg]x2, and the KCB and in my fleet Sovereign and am getting 12k DPS. So yeah, Plasma isn't the only way to go...
nice! what kind of captain are you? and what other gear? and what traits? But the fleet assault cruiser has 4 tactical consoles putting it on par with most escorts...
Also, I'm not the best. I'm good, but there are much better. I'm also not the best parser. I do this for my own entertainment.
But, those can actually work to your advantage depending on what kind of results you are looking for. I full well expect there to be a statistically #1 combination of gear and skills. That is an inevitability.
The simple fact is, most people do not come near that point, ever, at all, myself included, tho I get closer then most.
When I am trying to ascertain in my view whether or not something is balanced, I want to be considering the average scenario far more then the outliers. I don't have unrealistic expectations that everything will equal out in the end, and I certainly don't worry too hard about things that happen at such a high end of the curve that it outgears the content it is being run in.
There is a perception that you need to do X damage to complete content. That is true, but the perception of X is way too high, because in the past it was considered hard. Before people out geared it, there was a reason elite was in the name. It appears to be tuned so that a group of 5 pulling about 3-4k will get the optional no problem.
In a world where my sci routinely pulls off 8.5k sustained, bursting over 10k (I hit 13k the other day!) can we really be saying that I'm not doing well enough because I didn't do 12k? Or is it more logical that doing over 10k means your results are clearly in the realm of "Oh my, that's a lot of DPS!" and that Escorts are "ZOMG your so over geared!"
I digressed, the point was, if you take the gear, put it on, hit up a ton of situations over and over, you get results that all fall neatly within a very small margin. I'm not claiming true equality, I'm claiming that if you toss these weapons into a variety of situations, they will all get you where you are going so well that unless you are agonizingly going over numbers or only counting specific situations and content types (PvP excluded, talk to a PvPer for PvP information) there is no clear reason to choose one over the other.
Now, there certainly are mitigating circumstances. A tac is going to find some synergy with AP and crit builds. Sci skills buff certain procs (I would hazard a guess this is where some of the differences we have are, when I use polaron or phaser I'm speced for it. I don't see that as contrary to the test tho, because in both other cases (Plasma and AP) I was stacked up with plasma goodies and as much crit as I could manage (I dont have a tachyokinetic for example, but that would only increase APs advantage in theory, further proving my results) )
Is is scientific? Probably not. Can I think of a better way? Not that I'm likely to do with my personal play time. Is it a good indicator of when you take the long view instead of cherry picking your results? I think so.
Edit: Also, I fully expected in a direct comparison for cannons to do more damage then beams. That is in the design. I in the past held a view that the margin was too wide. I have since, thru the example of others and my own testing, changed that view. Beams have a wider arc, and have a lower maximum damage as a result. That was never a debate in my mind. The only thing I had a problem with was the size of the difference. I have since changed that view.
If your problem is the fact that they are designed to do less damage then other weapons with a narrower arc, then that is a different issue. I disagree, but that is not the topic I was here to test. I was only trying to discover if the margins were within my personal tolerance (they far exceeded my expectations) and if plasma stacking was really giving me as much of as boost as I thought (It most certainly was not. It is a boost, that is not in debate, but it boosted other weapon types as well, and thru that mechanisim, managed to keep the margins again acceptable in my view)
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Kimmym,
Excellent job! Your results closely mirror my own on my Engineer (joe@stompar) He currently runs the full romulan plasma set with an Aux2Batt build and can do around 12k dps sustained for a KASE run. I have also tried a full disruptor set and with the embassy consoles and did around 11.5kdps on the same run in the same group. That being said, there is always RNG playing into these kinds of tests, but my 'instinct' is that the two are pretty even with plasma pulling ahead on longer lived targets. Your AP testing has me thinking of trying that out, purely for the asthetics as I look the look of AP.
My character has the tachy consoles, the romulan console, borg console, and is running a fleet assault cruiser with full mk xii blue tac consoles and the mk xii romulan. I would use the experimental beam array in any beam build for the free power and of course for the romulan set bonus and plasma burn which is a free beam overload with a high plasma burn that crits at around 35%.
Thanks for the information, I didn't put a lot of stock into the tetryon tests. The gear was just far out of line compared to the rest. Still, I didn't "feel" like they would be bad, especially compared to other utility types such as phaser. Of course I could not properly test them.
I would guess, in a heavily shielded environment they would do well, and in places like ISE with non-shielded targets it would start to lag a bit. Pure speculation, admittedly.
Edit: And if blue fire is your thing, at least with my phased polarons the plasma proc is the color of the beams... so aesthetically that could rock, I was too busy looking at numbers and trying to fly as similarly as possible from run to run to see if the tet fire was blue =P
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
There is a perception that you need to do X damage to complete content. That is true, but the perception of X is way too high, because in the past it was considered hard. Before people out geared it, there was a reason elite was in the name. It appears to be tuned so that a group of 5 pulling about 3-4k will get the optional no problem.
In a world where my sci routinely pulls off 8.5k sustained, bursting over 10k (I hit 13k the other day!) can we really be saying that I'm not doing well enough because I didn't do 12k? Or is it more logical that doing over 10k means your results are clearly in the realm of "Oh my, that's a lot of DPS!" and that Escorts are "ZOMG your so over geared!"
This is my main beef with the 'Escorts are OP' argument. Just because Escorts can hit the X damage mark the quickest where Cruisers and Science vessels have to work to get at it, doesn't mean that Cruisers and Science vessels or Engineer and Science Captains aren't worth anything. Laziness isn't an excuse.
I'd rather the effort that's put into arguing about OPness and UPness be used to find things that genuinely don't work as advertised, such as the Fire at Will (and other applied powers) bug with Weapon modifiers. That tends to be more productive.
In honor of the U.S.S. BEAM BUILD TEST and the conclusion of testing, I finally caved and bought myself a Galaxy-R. I know she is underpowered for my playstyle, but I've always wanted one for the aesthetics and it seemed like the perfect time.
Once I manage to farm myself out of this hole I want to see what I can make one do with a cannon build...
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Comments
Use a romulan torp w/ 2 PWOs and a copy of High yield 1 if you can spare it. Lacking the 2nd ens tac is what makes the excelsior under performing in it's versatility, its just a AoE agro magnet.
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Hi there, Kimmym.
Beams can be very effective against a single target. My Tac captain pulls an average of 13k dps, and I've broken 20k on Tac Cubes, and the Cure Carrier. I'm running a Fleet Defiant.
My Load out is...
TT1, THY2, BFAW3, OMEGA3
TT1 BETA 1, BFAW3
HY1
EPTW1, EPTS2
HE1, TSS2
Experimental Romulan Beam, 2 acc2 Romulan Beams, Wide Angle Quantum.
2 acc Romulan Beams, Cutting Beam.
3 piece Borg
Enhanced Plasma Manifold, Borg Console, Zero Point Console.
Field Generator, -threat +plasma damage shield emitter(Romulan)
5 Plasma Infusers
2 -15% attack pattern cooldown doffs, 1 shield distribution, 1 damage vs borg, 1 damage control engineers.
Everything is purple for considering mark/rarity.
Running full pedal to the medal, my beams, all 5 +Bfaw shots, are hitting between 3-5k with 7-9k crits, and Im running an all human crew so my crit could be higher with romulan doffs.
Single target Bfaw + Tac buffs will melt an elite cube in a matter of a few seconds, the wide angle quantum torp is icing on the cake.
Downside to a build like this is my ship, the USS FIREBIRD, draws a lot of threat. Hence full Borg set. With the field generator I have around 7k shields per facing. Plasma Manifold gives a great burst of healing combined with HE/TSS. That said, Escorts are squishy and will get popped by Gates and Cubes unless a dedicated tanking vessel is present.
More testing awaits! Thanks for the build, I may have to move to a cruiser and an escort for more thorough testing. I started in a cruiser but it made me pine for my baby.
Edit: I'm wondering what that build would feel like in my beta vector... going full speed around a cube.... I have to do it once even if its just for the lulz!
Edit: BFaW is continueing to amaze me. It's one of those skills I dismissed earlier on in my play as unreliable, but its proving its worth more and more each day.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
True but I was focusing on single target damage, in which case Rapid Fire will outdo Scatter Volley as well.
The real question is if the damage from Fire At Will'd DBB's makes up for the lack of Rapid Fire/Scatter Volleyed turrets?
Also oridjerra that is a very unorthodox build and it looks quite fun! Instead of focusing on the forward arc you simply fly circles around everything while cycling Fire at Will. Interesting and horizon expanding.
I've never invested in tetryon, so I farmed up some of the fancy ones from "The New Link."
mk xi blue, but they have a 10% proc rate. Used mk xi blue consoles, too.
Damage was down, but I would expect that with the quality of the gear. Still repectable.
Also, I am noticing a difference in my plasma proc damage. It is in fact higher when using non-plasma weapons. The increased proc rate is making a difference.
My conclusion is that the current state of plasma is balanced. It increases your DPS. Applying the same increase to other weapons gives you a relative increase. No balance is ever perfect, but if you are going to niggle over 200-500 dps, when you are gaining situational utility such as a phaser proc or a shield drain... Can't have your cake and eat it too. Plasma is by definition a DPS weapon (yeah.. I know, that sounds funny) it procs a DoT. It should pull ahead of a utility weapon type such as a phaser.
The margins are small at best.
Edit: This is in regards to beam weaponry. I have more beam test to run before I even think of testing anything else.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
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I prefer the game the way it is now compared to then. You needed to have at least one EPS console to sustain any kind of damage, and cruisers they needed 2 of them lol along with DHC odd balls. You needed science consoles to do stuff, I can't remember what stuff anymore but they used to do stuff lol.
Now you need tach consoles, some armor and uni consoles its alot more simple.
I would still like the Romulan Experimental Array available in flavors other than plasma, as it is a great boon the beam ships damage. Additionally while I think FaW is a decent aoe power, Beam Overload needs to be looked it, as most people do not run it, and it has crippling downsides that Cannon Rapid Fire does not.
I am also curious in your testing, have you been using a high rank of EPtW? I have been told repeatedly that EPtW 1 is the only useful one, and that 3 is useless, so I currently run EPtS 3 and EPtW 1, is this true or no?
And what is the opinion on Beta vs FAW? Like in an Ody with universal set to Tac, is it better to have two copies of Beta or FAW?
I would be interested to see this, as DBBs are quite cool (and shooting phasers forward is more in line with canon, which I like doing.) I really wish we had Beam Turrets, which would make going DBB's better overall. Still love to see your parses.
Bfaws will net you more damage than 2 beta's
The only consideration you should take with EPTW's is how much over-power(125+)you need to comfortably fire Bfaw without power dip. There are a variety of builds, mostly cruiser based, that one way or another will run at around 160 weapon power or lower + weapon drain resistance-this can even be done without running EPTW at all if you point batteries, run Dem Doffs, AuxToBatteries, and especially if you are an engineer.
Bfaw will always apply it's extra shot on your primary target if no other target is within range. When fighting multiple targets, such as sphere spam, most of the random extra shots are not "wasted" damage-only shots hitting the Gate or the Transformer prior to generators being destroyed is wasted. 2 bfaws will keep sphere spam steadly dwindling, add in other aoe-torp spread, ewp, gravity well, etc to knock them down even faster. 3 beamboats running good setups will literally vaporize a pack of spheres before your second bfaw can be fired.
That's probably one of the reasons but cruisers also tend to have fairly good amount of science slots for romulan plasma consoles while they aren't the single reason it can becuase any ship with a lot of tact consoles would get similar effect putting i plasma damage consoles.But it makes up for the fact cruiser usually don't have more then 3 tact consoles. Though the new fleet cruiser's are exceptions and I honestly can't wait to pick the assualt cruiser fleet version up. While escorts always do at least at fleet level... The disruptor proc damage bonus doesn't hurt either 10% less resistance on unshielded stf targets can boost damage as well.
But damage consoles stack and they give a flat amount each time so with each shot that can add up to quite a bit with FAW, if you manage to nail down the power drain to manageable levels.
All of that adds up to a lot dps potential at least in long engagements... tac escorts will always have better crits and firing rates( with rapid fire) so plasma's don't offer as much to them, as their burst is so high the dot won't be even noticeable... But plasma proc with longer fight times like I'm seeing in the vids definitely adds up to something.
While testing and getting tired, I was swapping from a sci ody to a tac ody... and I discharged the ship I put the gear onto...
Yeah... it sucks... hard.
So, I am prematurely ending my testing, but with the data I managed to accumulate I'm firmly convinced that both:
Beams are peforming as designed. You may not like the design. You may not like the playstyle. That does not mean they are broken. It means you do not like them.
And
Plasma stacking is balanced, at least where beams are concerned. Stacking embassy plasma consoles with AP beams was actually a DPS increase over going full on plasma, and was on par with romulan plasma. Utility beam types were slightly behind, but I would expect that from a beam with a utility proc rather then a DPS proc or a crit modifier.
You might not like the state of beam weaponry, but it is neither horribly broken nor is plasma the only way to go. It is the fad right now because it is new. When you take the time to actually do thurough testing the numbers are not nearly as skewed as public opinion would lead you to beleive.
I do not expect all, or in fact many, of you to believe what I say. I do not encourage you to. I encourage you to test it for yourself. I don't mean just one run and throw your hands up in the air. Give it a solid go, following advice and treat it as a new skill set. You just might surprise yourself and have a ton of fun along the way.
Now, please, join me in a moment of silence for the crew and cargo of the U.S.S. BEAM BUILD TEST... They were lost so we could better understand the universe around us. May you all rest in peace.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Truer heroes have never graced the universe....
Thanks for testing and sorry for your loss, but If I may ask are you a tac or engi or sci ? if your tac or sci, I'm a engi so that may explain some of the differences I'm seeing.
While I am sorry for your loss, my tests show something completely different then your claim. That beams might be working as the devs intended but certainly not as was depicted in the shows and movies of the IP and certainly not as Gene intended them to. If they were working as this game has modified them to do , the entire series would have had canons on every ship and the tactical voyager would have been closer to reality (minus the beams of course) then standard voyager.
Sorry but my tests show that beams aren't as powerful as cannons and while providing ships available from the store and the exchange that can use cannons will fix things in the short term, throwing up ones arms and saying "Well that's all we can do now folks" is not the answer those of us who are paying customers want to hear. Something must be done about escorts and cannons, it's that simple and the rest of you might not like it, but that's called balancing a game, leaving the game as it is imbalanced isn't right nor is it wanted and those of us who are true 1k vets should be heard of the freebies.
Extremely sorry to hear that. My heart goes out to you.
I'm currently running my 180 Quantum, 6 Fleet Andorian Phasers [acc]x2 [dmg]x2, and the KCB and in my fleet Sovereign and am getting 12k DPS. So yeah, Plasma isn't the only way to go...
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
i noticed this to it tends to hit more or i am just getting more lucky. and with the embassy consoles i can set them on fire with it lol
Also, I'm not the best. I'm good, but there are much better. I'm also not the best parser. I do this for my own entertainment.
But, those can actually work to your advantage depending on what kind of results you are looking for. I full well expect there to be a statistically #1 combination of gear and skills. That is an inevitability.
The simple fact is, most people do not come near that point, ever, at all, myself included, tho I get closer then most.
When I am trying to ascertain in my view whether or not something is balanced, I want to be considering the average scenario far more then the outliers. I don't have unrealistic expectations that everything will equal out in the end, and I certainly don't worry too hard about things that happen at such a high end of the curve that it outgears the content it is being run in.
There is a perception that you need to do X damage to complete content. That is true, but the perception of X is way too high, because in the past it was considered hard. Before people out geared it, there was a reason elite was in the name. It appears to be tuned so that a group of 5 pulling about 3-4k will get the optional no problem.
In a world where my sci routinely pulls off 8.5k sustained, bursting over 10k (I hit 13k the other day!) can we really be saying that I'm not doing well enough because I didn't do 12k? Or is it more logical that doing over 10k means your results are clearly in the realm of "Oh my, that's a lot of DPS!" and that Escorts are "ZOMG your so over geared!"
I digressed, the point was, if you take the gear, put it on, hit up a ton of situations over and over, you get results that all fall neatly within a very small margin. I'm not claiming true equality, I'm claiming that if you toss these weapons into a variety of situations, they will all get you where you are going so well that unless you are agonizingly going over numbers or only counting specific situations and content types (PvP excluded, talk to a PvPer for PvP information) there is no clear reason to choose one over the other.
Now, there certainly are mitigating circumstances. A tac is going to find some synergy with AP and crit builds. Sci skills buff certain procs (I would hazard a guess this is where some of the differences we have are, when I use polaron or phaser I'm speced for it. I don't see that as contrary to the test tho, because in both other cases (Plasma and AP) I was stacked up with plasma goodies and as much crit as I could manage (I dont have a tachyokinetic for example, but that would only increase APs advantage in theory, further proving my results) )
Is is scientific? Probably not. Can I think of a better way? Not that I'm likely to do with my personal play time. Is it a good indicator of when you take the long view instead of cherry picking your results? I think so.
Edit: Also, I fully expected in a direct comparison for cannons to do more damage then beams. That is in the design. I in the past held a view that the margin was too wide. I have since, thru the example of others and my own testing, changed that view. Beams have a wider arc, and have a lower maximum damage as a result. That was never a debate in my mind. The only thing I had a problem with was the size of the difference. I have since changed that view.
If your problem is the fact that they are designed to do less damage then other weapons with a narrower arc, then that is a different issue. I disagree, but that is not the topic I was here to test. I was only trying to discover if the margins were within my personal tolerance (they far exceeded my expectations) and if plasma stacking was really giving me as much of as boost as I thought (It most certainly was not. It is a boost, that is not in debate, but it boosted other weapon types as well, and thru that mechanisim, managed to keep the margins again acceptable in my view)
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Kimmy,
In my testing and looking over combat logs, the "10% proc rate" is bugged and doesn't work correctly, even after the Devs "fixed" it.
Excellent job! Your results closely mirror my own on my Engineer (joe@stompar) He currently runs the full romulan plasma set with an Aux2Batt build and can do around 12k dps sustained for a KASE run. I have also tried a full disruptor set and with the embassy consoles and did around 11.5kdps on the same run in the same group. That being said, there is always RNG playing into these kinds of tests, but my 'instinct' is that the two are pretty even with plasma pulling ahead on longer lived targets. Your AP testing has me thinking of trying that out, purely for the asthetics as I look the look of AP.
My character has the tachy consoles, the romulan console, borg console, and is running a fleet assault cruiser with full mk xii blue tac consoles and the mk xii romulan. I would use the experimental beam array in any beam build for the free power and of course for the romulan set bonus and plasma burn which is a free beam overload with a high plasma burn that crits at around 35%.
I would guess, in a heavily shielded environment they would do well, and in places like ISE with non-shielded targets it would start to lag a bit. Pure speculation, admittedly.
Edit: And if blue fire is your thing, at least with my phased polarons the plasma proc is the color of the beams... so aesthetically that could rock, I was too busy looking at numbers and trying to fly as similarly as possible from run to run to see if the tet fire was blue =P
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
This is my main beef with the 'Escorts are OP' argument. Just because Escorts can hit the X damage mark the quickest where Cruisers and Science vessels have to work to get at it, doesn't mean that Cruisers and Science vessels or Engineer and Science Captains aren't worth anything. Laziness isn't an excuse.
I'd rather the effort that's put into arguing about OPness and UPness be used to find things that genuinely don't work as advertised, such as the Fire at Will (and other applied powers) bug with Weapon modifiers. That tends to be more productive.
Once I manage to farm myself out of this hole I want to see what I can make one do with a cannon build...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard