honestly I was thinking about this and it is true that one could easily make a P2W boat with heavy armor for an STF. If anyone has suggestions that would be awesome. but I am beginning to think in the end it would not work due to tankier PVE escorts and sci ships.
but again I think option two would be the best, everyone gets more customization while giving cruisers the unique item they deserve.
They already have their unique items: heavier shields and ability to heal damage better than anyone in the game.
...and they need more uniqueness because they can't compete with a gunboat ? Thats why they're called escorts, to escort THEM.
My view on it is like cruisers/heavy battle cruisers I think need an armor that helps them more in their roles like an armor thats half and half bolstering damage resistance and damage output to make it easier to where if you wanna do adequate damage you don't have to bring an escort if you are feeling like say flying a galaxy class.
The other issue I have is the intrepid class. Its functionality as an armor with that ablative is like the kar'fi thing which I don't have a solution for it but would be some fun if some armors could affect it to make those last longer.
The b'rel could also do well with this kind of change where you could make some armors that increase its resists and then possibly an armor or something to let it compete with beams and cannons for an all torp/mine setup (the fleet b'rel has one more engineering console but in reality that doesn't do much at all for it because its under powered when it comes to competition with beams and cannons in its EBC mode).
Overall there is a lot that could be done with an armor consoles and even armors that function to something besides resistance. There are a lot of nice looking ships out there but with the mold being changed every time some new c-store ship comes out a lot of them are being left behind and maybe something like this will bring them back to being useful again.
Unfortunately, I think these days Cryptic wouldn't be satisfied with simply selling ship skins. At least not at what we would consider a reasonable price, it'd the EV suit all over again!
The bottom line that Geko pointed in a recent 4 hour interview he did is that ship skins and character costumes do not sell well. The things that are selling well are complete ships with a something extra and the ship packages. If simple ship skins sold as well then Cryptic would still be selling them.
Here is the bottom line we are discussing internally:
<snip>
So two options we are discussing:
Option 1: <snip>
Option 2: <snip>
Of the two options, I think the latter is the better way to go, as it is closer to the source material and gives you a more flexible design space. However, given that the armour and hull plating consoles are arguably the most useful Engineering consoles at present, you might need to give the others a balance pass so it doesn't become a dumping ground for Universals.
They already have their unique items: heavier shields and ability to heal damage better than anyone in the game.
...and they need more uniqueness because they can't compete with a gunboat ?
sorry I meant it would be too easy to do this on an escort, giving escorts WAY too much survivability which I feel would push the role of cruisers out of STFs by way too much.
1) Grandfather current MK XI Blue+ consoles and let us turn them in for GPL like you did with the very first consoles. This gives you a starting foundation to build on.
2) Option 2 - Everyone gets an armor slot with a unified armor granting +HP bonus and a minimal +5% - 15% (depending on quality of the armor) resistance bonus.
3a) Cruisers get an innate bonus attached which grants them additional resistance bonus +10% for green quality up to +30% (again depending on quality)
or
3.b) Cruisers are able to equip "Heavy Armor" - call it "Ablative Armor" instead of "Heavy Armor" this fits more with Trek Lore. This "Ablative Armor" is special and has up to 20% more resistance values.
Now, this would first make step forward for itemization.
Secondly, it opens up more possibilities - such as:
Add a "Secondary Deflector" slot along with the Armor slots. This could buff the build up and duration time for Sensor Analysis and therefore, improve the overall effectivity.
Now, not all Ships can equip those only a few ships. Science Vessels can equip one all the way which would clearly buff them and help their miserable status quo.
I don't have a clear idea for Escorts at the moment. I feel Escorts are quite powerful. My Idea would be to set away their innate +15 Weapon power bonus to a base +5 and give them a
"Secondary Weapon Relay" which makes up for their "loss".
Depending on the quality of the Console/Relays they could get a full +25% Weapon bonus to compensate which other ships do not.
This would
a) improve itemization in STO
b) distinct ship consoles
c) buff Science, Escorts and Cruisers in a different way.
First, let?s take Warp Cores out of the discussion. If STO gets a Warp Core, it will have little to do with armor.
Here is the bottom line we are discussing internally:
? We want to add a ship armor slot. Having more itemization is good
? Armor means Damage Resistance (to be consistent with ground Armor). Other enhancement bonuses can be available
? We don?t want to raise the survivability of every ship in the game.
? We feel Cruisers could use an increase in survivability.
? Armor could be added as a set piece.
? Armor could offer a ship material change.
So two options we are discussing:
Option 1:
? Only Cruisers Get Armor.
? No other changes needed (simple).
? We couldn't integrate armor as set piece for everyone, but it could possibly become part of a set only usable by cruisers.
Option 2:
? Everyone gets an Armor slot, but Cruisers can equip Heavy Armor.
? This is dangerous b/c it potentially raises the survivability of every ship in the game. To do this, Armor consoles would have to be changed. They would have to be something that is not related to damage mitigation (so not damage resistance, or bonus HP, or defense). The consoles would have to change to something new, or existing.
? Basic Armor could have lots of options and types, but in general, the damage resistance bonus would be equivalent to about 2 to 3 engineering consoles (for white quality - higher qualities could be better). Heavy armor would be worth much more.
So bottom line, would you be willing to loose Engineering Damage Resistance consoles for an armor slot that gives you about the same resistance, but also offers you more options.
this is an interesting idea, but it has the potential to make things worse with the problem of the run away power creep on resistance, healing, proc healing, and passive healing. its hard to see the effects of this power creep unless you pvp though, no npcs have theses things, just players.
the effect of the rep passives, the stf and borg sets, the elite shields and the embassy consoles and the average resistance level people have now directly counters the DPS of weapons that deal damage gradually, consistently from second to second. basically all weapons that arent DHCs, beam overloads, and torps, if you can make a hole in the shields. enhancing hull armor will make this problem worse.
thats why it was asked if you would consider a buff to beam arrays in that podcast, they have a net of 0 damage dealing in pvp now. in pve, with how much more resilient ships are now, the role of a healer is worth even less too. so in every way cruisers and all energy weapons that are not DHCs have been severely marginalized by all the additions since F2P. a signifigant duff to all weapons that are not DHCs is appropriate, or a change in their fire cycle so they too deal damage in a more front loaded way.
as far as the armor slot goes, i think removeing them from eng consoels, and maeking it a new catagory is a good idea. there are few eng consoles that are any good though other then armor, to cruisers at least. new or improved eng consoels should come with this change too
*the + to subsystem power consoles giving+3.4 to +4 is a joke, these are worthless with such small benefit. double the bonus back to previous levels
*the turn consoels operate on a % increase. this makes them useless on cruisers, and amazeing on escorts. an eng consoel that gives no benifit to cruisers makes no sense.
*the eps console only buffs the transfer rate, why not have it buff the EPS skill instead? like the SFI console does
*how about a console that buffs targeting or evasion? efficiency or warp core potential?
as far as a special slot is concerned, i think it should vary what you can put there. armor consoles, hanger pets, an additional forward weapon, a second deflector, a second impulse engine or a second shield.
*second impulse engine and shield- this would only apply the mods the second shield has, not anything else. so if this second impulse engine is a [spd]X3, that would stack with what your main impulse engine would have. same thing with a shield.
this could get out of hand so certain items should be restricted from being slotted based on ship type, and sub type. the tactical escort should not be able to slot a hanger pet, and an andorian escort should not be able to slot an additional forward weapon, for example.
The ideas around customization are interesting, but I don't like either of geko's ideas (sorry dude). Cruisers tank well enough as it is.
I'd prefer this: Add a diminishing returns mechanic to shield resistances for everyone. Give the first 30-40% for free, and then tax anything above that.
If the game was still as cut and dry as having 3 clear classes, I might have said I would prefer Option 1. However, with all the hybrid classes out there, I think Option 2 would be my preference.
One idea for an engineering console would be sort of a pair with the current RCS Accelerator consoles. We've got a console that affects turn rate (although it's still arguable if the benefit is worth it on the ships that really need it), but not inertia and speed, so what about adding an RCS Booster console? For that matter, add a second +Turn Rate console with a flat boost but reduces top speed (Vectored Impulse?)
Second possible suggestion is a console that affects weapon energy besides just a flat boost to the amount. Some sort of auxiliary power injector that partially counters weapons drain, but costs Aux power to equip. Escorts already pretty much run constant 125 weapons power, so these consoles wouldn't really change their damage output much, but would help out Cruisers and maybe certain Science Vessel builds.
There's currently no console that improves Driver Coils, could add one of those.
Another possible suggestion completely out of left field would be for an engineering Armor console that allows the equipping of Heavy Armor on non-cruiser ships (maybe only specific types) at the expense of speed, maneuverability, and/or engine power. This would allow for some of the hybrids (such as the Chimera and Nebula) to potentially maintain their heavy tank builds despite the loss of their normal armor consoles. I'm honestly not even certain this is a good idea, but I'll just toss it out there, maybe it'll give someone else a better idea.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
How about this? I think this is a very simple solution:
Engineering consoles remain as they are. (resist consoles).
Armor slot acts like a permanent Jevonite Hardpoints: They increase hull HP.
Just like any other item, the armor slots come in common to purple quality.
Each ship, according to its class, receives a fixed number of armor slots. Think of it like a second row of 'device slots'.
Frigates/escorts/raptors/birds of prey: 1
Battlecruiser, cruisers and flight deck cruisers: 4
Carriers: 6
Dreadnaughts: 10
A much increased hull HP for the larger ships would counter the current insane dps smaller ships have in comparison to the larger ships. It would make cruisers be able to truly tank and be the mainstay of any force and it would make dreadnaughts truly...dread naught.
The devs could, instead of increasing the damage NPCs do, simply beef up every npc to basically the hull HP of a tactical cube in elite stfs.
PLAYER DAMAGE AND HEALING DO NOT CHANGE. If they do, it will make the hull hp increase meaningless to begin with.
This would make each battle epic and truly dependent on who uses the best tactics and who makes the best use of his boff/capt powers.
So two options we are discussing:
Option 1:
? Only Cruisers Get Armor.
? No other changes needed (simple).
? We couldn't integrate armor as set piece for everyone, but it could possibly become part of a set only usable by cruisers.
Option 2:
? Everyone gets an Armor slot, but Cruisers can equip Heavy Armor.
? This is dangerous b/c it potentially raises the survivability of every ship in the game. To do this, Armor consoles would have to be changed. They would have to be something that is not related to damage mitigation (so not damage resistance, or bonus HP, or defense). The consoles would have to change to something new, or existing.
? Basic Armor could have lots of options and types, but in general, the damage resistance bonus would be equivalent to about 2 to 3 engineering consoles (for white quality - higher qualities could be better). Heavy armor would be worth much more.
First off ship survivability have very little to do with the resistance of their hull via armor consoles so this will have a very minor effect on the survivability of the ships. Secondly engineering consoles, beyond the armor ones, are dump slots anymore. RCS consoles are so heavily penalized on the ships that would like to use them it is not even funny. +power consoles grant such low bonuses they are not worth it. +Crew resist might serve a purpose if bypassing crew mechanics for your hull regen wasn't a better approach right now. I could go on but yeah.
So bottom line, would you be willing to loose Engineering Damage Resistance consoles for an armor slot that gives you about the same resistance, but also offers you more options.
Obviously yes. But I have to ask a simple question:
How is this more important than fixing the weapon power drain mechanics or the turn rate math? Not to mention the current sustain issue.
Option 2:
? Everyone gets an Armor slot, but Cruisers can equip Heavy Armor.
? This is dangerous b/c it potentially raises the survivability of every ship in the game. To do this, Armor consoles would have to be changed. They would have to be something that is not related to damage mitigation (so not damage resistance, or bonus HP, or defense). The consoles would have to change to something new, or existing.
? Basic Armor could have lots of options and types, but in general, the damage resistance bonus would be equivalent to about 2 to 3 engineering consoles (for white quality - higher qualities could be better). Heavy armor would be worth much more.
So why is this option bad? Why would raising the servivability of every ship in the game be bad? (PVP aside, which I do not think should be balanced around).
If this option doesnt provide me either more HP or more damage resistance, then you might as well call the slot something other than armor... because it wont actually be armor. And if thats the case then you might as well not bother.
Option 1 sounds the best, as far as giving actual armor.
One idea for an engineering console would be sort of a pair with the current RCS Accelerator consoles. We've got a console that affects turn rate (although it's still arguable if the benefit is worth it on the ships that really need it), but not inertia and speed, so what about adding an RCS Booster console?
Or a Subspace Field Generator that lowers the effective mass of a ship based on Aux power levels.
First, let?s take Warp Cores out of the discussion. If STO gets a Warp Core, it will have little to do with armor.
Here is the bottom line we are discussing internally:
? We want to add a ship armor slot. Having more itemization is good
? Armor means Damage Resistance (to be consistent with ground Armor). Other enhancement bonuses can be available
? We don?t want to raise the survivability of every ship in the game.
? We feel Cruisers could use an increase in survivability.
? Armor could be added as a set piece.
? Armor could offer a ship material change.
So two options we are discussing:
Option 1:
? Only Cruisers Get Armor.
? No other changes needed (simple).
? We couldn't integrate armor as set piece for everyone, but it could possibly become part of a set only usable by cruisers.
Option 2:
? Everyone gets an Armor slot, but Cruisers can equip Heavy Armor.
? This is dangerous b/c it potentially raises the survivability of every ship in the game. To do this, Armor consoles would have to be changed. They would have to be something that is not related to damage mitigation (so not damage resistance, or bonus HP, or defense). The consoles would have to change to something new, or existing.
? Basic Armor could have lots of options and types, but in general, the damage resistance bonus would be equivalent to about 2 to 3 engineering consoles (for white quality - higher qualities could be better). Heavy armor would be worth much more.
So bottom line, would you be willing to loose Engineering Damage Resistance consoles for an armor slot that gives you about the same resistance, but also offers you more options.
How about fixing the bugs in game instead of adding more usless crud ? is this all you can do these days is to sit around making stupid ideas up ? do you have manatees that throw ideas out of a huge tank of water ? not impressed gecko this game really is hitting a new low
The ideas around customization are interesting, but I don't like either of geko's ideas (sorry dude). Cruisers tank well enough as it is.
I'd prefer this: Add a diminishing returns mechanic to shield resistances for everyone. Give the first 30-40% for free, and then tax anything above that.
We have that for hull already, and I think the same applies to shields. Also, have you SEEN cruisers vs. escorts in PvP? Cruisers get SHREDDED. As it is, they're nearly impotent in PvE anymore. Sorry, but no, something NEEDS to happen.
I would like to see extra slots for the c store consoles which take the slots away.
the issue i see is we pay a lot the ships in the cstore then we lose slot
this is mainly with the bundle which which lose 3 slots
Escorts already have 0.9, if you put them at BoP levels the only thing you are doing is killing escorts because they cannot hull tank, only ship that can hull tank are cruisers.
Also if you do lower shield modifiers of escorts you do the same to BoP, killing then entire from PvE.
Escorts aren't meant to tank. They should never have been able to.
Give them 0.6. Give them a healthy bonus, perhaps the healthiest between escorts, scis and cruisers, to the armour console, to compensate so they can take a couple hits should their shields go down, enough to pop off a heal or two.
Scis already have rock hard high shields and decent hull, and Eng have very high and powerful hull and decent shields. Tacs should have low shields and awesome armour resistance for when their shields fail, at which point they beat a hasty retreat.
First, let?s take Warp Cores out of the discussion. If STO gets a Warp Core, it will have little to do with armor.
Here is the bottom line we are discussing internally:
? We want to add a ship armor slot. Having more itemization is good
? Armor means Damage Resistance (to be consistent with ground Armor). Other enhancement bonuses can be available
? We don?t want to raise the survivability of every ship in the game.
? We feel Cruisers could use an increase in survivability.
? Armor could be added as a set piece.
? Armor could offer a ship material change.
So two options we are discussing:
Option 1:
? Only Cruisers Get Armor.
? No other changes needed (simple).
? We couldn't integrate armor as set piece for everyone, but it could possibly become part of a set only usable by cruisers.
Option 2:
? Everyone gets an Armor slot, but Cruisers can equip Heavy Armor.
? This is dangerous b/c it potentially raises the survivability of every ship in the game. To do this, Armor consoles would have to be changed. They would have to be something that is not related to damage mitigation (so not damage resistance, or bonus HP, or defense). The consoles would have to change to something new, or existing.
? Basic Armor could have lots of options and types, but in general, the damage resistance bonus would be equivalent to about 2 to 3 engineering consoles (for white quality - higher qualities could be better). Heavy armor would be worth much more.
So bottom line, would you be willing to loose Engineering Damage Resistance consoles for an armor slot that gives you about the same resistance, but also offers you more options.
I prefer option 2.
Yes, I would be willing to loose Engineering Damage Resistance consoles for an armor slot that gives you about the same resistance, but also offers more options, as long as eng slots aren't affected. I need my slots for uni consoles.
From a design standpoint, I like the idea of having a dedicated armor slot. If the engineering consoles are supposed to be techy things inside the ship, armor is absolutely NOT a techy thing IN the ship.
Depending on how they do this, this could be really really good, or really really bad.
If they were to give everyone an armor slot or slots (based on ship type?) and restrict current armor platings from the engineering console role, I think that frustrates a few people, but design wise, is better for the game and (most likely) the intended role of those consoles. I can't imagine it was by design that everyone stacked armor there. Survivability trumps all other options.
If they add this in and make a unique type of armor that goes there AND keep the existing armors in the game, and their existing functionality in engineering console slots, well... expect newer, multi spectrum versions of instant death attacks that blow straight through your shields.
So again. I think it could be really good... but it depends on how they implement it.
Escorts aren't meant to tank. They should never have been able to.
Give them 0.6. Give them a healthy bonus, perhaps the healthiest between escorts, scis and cruisers, to the armour console, to compensate so they can take a couple hits should their shields go down, enough to pop off a heal or two.
Scis already have rock hard high shields and decent hull, and Eng have very high and powerful hull and decent shields. Tacs should have low shields and awesome armour resistance for when their shields fail, at which point they beat a hasty retreat.
So very much agreed here.
Escorts: Lowest shields, moderate armor resistance
Cruisers: Average shields, high armor resistance
Science: Highest shields, moderate armor resistance
An Armor slot should be exactly that: Provide armor. "Ablative Armor" comes to mind, Polarized Hull Armor (NX-01) is another. Looking at the NX-01's armor, you have an armortype which for all intents and purposes, replaces shields. But rather than taking the full force of the damage dealt, the polarized hull redistributes the damage across the entire hull, rather than just the area impacted.
First, let?s take Warp Cores out of the discussion. If STO gets a Warp Core, it will have little to do with armor.
Here is the bottom line we are discussing internally:
? We want to add a ship armor slot. Having more itemization is good
? Armor means Damage Resistance (to be consistent with ground Armor). Other enhancement bonuses can be available
? We don?t want to raise the survivability of every ship in the game.
? We feel Cruisers could use an increase in survivability.
? Armor could be added as a set piece.
? Armor could offer a ship material change.
So two options we are discussing:
Option 1:
? Only Cruisers Get Armor.
? No other changes needed (simple).
? We couldn't integrate armor as set piece for everyone, but it could possibly become part of a set only usable by cruisers.
Option 2:
? Everyone gets an Armor slot, but Cruisers can equip Heavy Armor.
? This is dangerous b/c it potentially raises the survivability of every ship in the game. To do this, Armor consoles would have to be changed. They would have to be something that is not related to damage mitigation (so not damage resistance, or bonus HP, or defense). The consoles would have to change to something new, or existing.
? Basic Armor could have lots of options and types, but in general, the damage resistance bonus would be equivalent to about 2 to 3 engineering consoles (for white quality - higher qualities could be better). Heavy armor would be worth much more.
So bottom line, would you be willing to loose Engineering Damage Resistance consoles for an armor slot that gives you about the same resistance, but also offers you more options.
My suggestion - A variant of 'Option 2'.
1) REMOVE the existing Engineering Armor Consoles from the game entirely- maybe allow those that have them to turn them in for Dilithium or something else good - OR allow them to be converted to the equivalent new Armor Consoles AFTER you've made sure no more ENG Armor consoles will be dropping/made via crafting in game. (This also allows players wgho only fly Escorts a way to recoup for Armor consoles they can no longer use if their Escorts can't slot it.
2) Add the 'Armor Console Slots' to the various ships based on whether Cryptic wants that ship to equip armor (It may be that certain Escorts have no armor slots, Sci ships have one or more, Cruisers have thee, etc; BUT this allows Cryptic the flexability to to make 'Armor' a consideration for a certain ship class, regardless of the ship type, be it Escort, Science, or Cruiser.
^^^
this way Cryptic could make the changes it wants, Tacs and Scis get something in return if they were using Engineering Armor consoles, but no longer can - and ship survivability overall is largely unaffected (depending of how Cryptic designs the new armor consoles.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
how About Fixing The Bugs In Game Instead Of Adding More Usless Crud ? Is This All You Can Do These Days Is To Sit Around Making Stupid Ideas Up ? Do You Have Manatees That Throw Ideas Out Of A Huge Tank Of Water ? Not Impressed Gecko This Game Really Is Hitting A New Low
Sorry, I disagree. We don't need an armor slot. The current resistance consoles are fine.
However, many (if not all) of the current "special" universal consoles should be turned into devices, to go in device slots. Give all C-Store and Fleet ships an extra device slot to compensate.
Escorts aren't meant to tank. They should never have been able to.
Give them 0.6. Give them a healthy bonus, perhaps the healthiest between escorts, scis and cruisers, to the armour console, to compensate so they can take a couple hits should their shields go down, enough to pop off a heal or two.
Scis already have rock hard high shields and decent hull, and Eng have very high and powerful hull and decent shields. Tacs should have low shields and awesome armour resistance for when their shields fail, at which point they beat a hasty retreat.
Ya buddy, give an NVAM Promethius 1/2 the shields of a freebie cruiser.
:eek:
So two options we are discussing:
Option 1:
? Only Cruisers Get Armor.
? No other changes needed (simple).
? We couldn't integrate armor as set piece for everyone, but it could possibly become part of a set only usable by cruisers.
Option 2:
? Everyone gets an Armor slot, but Cruisers can equip Heavy Armor.
? This is dangerous b/c it potentially raises the survivability of every ship in the game. To do this, Armor consoles would have to be changed. They would have to be something that is not related to damage mitigation (so not damage resistance, or bonus HP, or defense). The consoles would have to change to something new, or existing.
? Basic Armor could have lots of options and types, but in general, the damage resistance bonus would be equivalent to about 2 to 3 engineering consoles (for white quality - higher qualities could be better). Heavy armor would be worth much more.
I don't want to make dev life more difficult, but I prefer Option 2.
If you "get rid of" the existing Engineering Consoles, they could be replaced with identical "Standard Armor" items. This could actually decrease the survivability of some of the ships in-game, as it will only be possible to equip one of these in your Armor slot, instead of multiple items in your Engineering slots.
Cruisers can have Heavy Armor, or the ability to equip multiple pieces of armor, or have a default % bonus to the armor they equip, or something.
For those wondering about KDF cruisers: definitely a valid question, but I think one that could be addressed further down the line. Personally, I'd say let them have their Dual Heavy Cannons as well as Heavy Armor.
Edited to add: The only canon references to Armor I can think of are the Ablative Armor of the Defiant and Prometheus...I think it would be silly for this to be denied to the escorts in-game.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
All in all, I think Option 1 is the one I like the most and the safest. Option 2 without know details of exiting Armor console changes, I vote no unless I know more.
And Option 2seems the most potential for causing conflict with the players. Remember the uproar that changing the Field Generator consoles from Engineering to Science and despite assurances existing slotted consoles would be not moved, were (re)moved to overflow bag. And the morphing of Science Consoles with the skills revamped of Season 5. A lot of player got consoles which were useless to them and were stuck with them (i.e. bound).
And sets solely for Cruisers? Do you really want to go there? You eventually gave players access to the MACO and Honor Guard Sets to the other faction (albeit with a paying through the nose cost.).
Instead of a special armour type for cruiser that may be useless loot for the other two classes, what about the Cruisers getting an extra armor slot?
Like.... an escort or a science ship gets 2, a cruiser gets 4 armor slots for example?
Of course, I am assuming these slots would be taking the armour consoles that are currently now Engineering.
Or as told above, making universal consoles into a special universal console slot may be good too, so that they don't take up sci/tac/eng slots.
You realize that Dual (Heavy) Cannons are effectively "useless loot" for most cruiser and science vessels, right? Heavy Armor gives Cruisers parity in class-specific equipment, just need to give Science Vessels something to equal it out.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
Comments
They already have their unique items: heavier shields and ability to heal damage better than anyone in the game.
...and they need more uniqueness because they can't compete with a gunboat ? Thats why they're called escorts, to escort THEM.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
The other issue I have is the intrepid class. Its functionality as an armor with that ablative is like the kar'fi thing which I don't have a solution for it but would be some fun if some armors could affect it to make those last longer.
The b'rel could also do well with this kind of change where you could make some armors that increase its resists and then possibly an armor or something to let it compete with beams and cannons for an all torp/mine setup (the fleet b'rel has one more engineering console but in reality that doesn't do much at all for it because its under powered when it comes to competition with beams and cannons in its EBC mode).
Overall there is a lot that could be done with an armor consoles and even armors that function to something besides resistance. There are a lot of nice looking ships out there but with the mold being changed every time some new c-store ship comes out a lot of them are being left behind and maybe something like this will bring them back to being useful again.
The bottom line that Geko pointed in a recent 4 hour interview he did is that ship skins and character costumes do not sell well. The things that are selling well are complete ships with a something extra and the ship packages. If simple ship skins sold as well then Cryptic would still be selling them.
I think Warp Cores came in as a possibility for another area of itemisation; I don't think anyone really expected them to be linked with armour.
Of the two options, I think the latter is the better way to go, as it is closer to the source material and gives you a more flexible design space. However, given that the armour and hull plating consoles are arguably the most useful Engineering consoles at present, you might need to give the others a balance pass so it doesn't become a dumping ground for Universals.
sorry I meant it would be too easy to do this on an escort, giving escorts WAY too much survivability which I feel would push the role of cruisers out of STFs by way too much.
1) Grandfather current MK XI Blue+ consoles and let us turn them in for GPL like you did with the very first consoles. This gives you a starting foundation to build on.
2) Option 2 - Everyone gets an armor slot with a unified armor granting +HP bonus and a minimal +5% - 15% (depending on quality of the armor) resistance bonus.
3a) Cruisers get an innate bonus attached which grants them additional resistance bonus +10% for green quality up to +30% (again depending on quality)
or
3.b) Cruisers are able to equip "Heavy Armor" - call it "Ablative Armor" instead of "Heavy Armor" this fits more with Trek Lore. This "Ablative Armor" is special and has up to 20% more resistance values.
Now, this would first make step forward for itemization.
Secondly, it opens up more possibilities - such as:
Add a "Secondary Deflector" slot along with the Armor slots. This could buff the build up and duration time for Sensor Analysis and therefore, improve the overall effectivity.
Now, not all Ships can equip those only a few ships. Science Vessels can equip one all the way which would clearly buff them and help their miserable status quo.
I don't have a clear idea for Escorts at the moment. I feel Escorts are quite powerful. My Idea would be to set away their innate +15 Weapon power bonus to a base +5 and give them a
"Secondary Weapon Relay" which makes up for their "loss".
Depending on the quality of the Console/Relays they could get a full +25% Weapon bonus to compensate which other ships do not.
This would
a) improve itemization in STO
b) distinct ship consoles
c) buff Science, Escorts and Cruisers in a different way.
this is an interesting idea, but it has the potential to make things worse with the problem of the run away power creep on resistance, healing, proc healing, and passive healing. its hard to see the effects of this power creep unless you pvp though, no npcs have theses things, just players.
the effect of the rep passives, the stf and borg sets, the elite shields and the embassy consoles and the average resistance level people have now directly counters the DPS of weapons that deal damage gradually, consistently from second to second. basically all weapons that arent DHCs, beam overloads, and torps, if you can make a hole in the shields. enhancing hull armor will make this problem worse.
thats why it was asked if you would consider a buff to beam arrays in that podcast, they have a net of 0 damage dealing in pvp now. in pve, with how much more resilient ships are now, the role of a healer is worth even less too. so in every way cruisers and all energy weapons that are not DHCs have been severely marginalized by all the additions since F2P. a signifigant duff to all weapons that are not DHCs is appropriate, or a change in their fire cycle so they too deal damage in a more front loaded way.
as far as the armor slot goes, i think removeing them from eng consoels, and maeking it a new catagory is a good idea. there are few eng consoles that are any good though other then armor, to cruisers at least. new or improved eng consoels should come with this change too
*the + to subsystem power consoles giving+3.4 to +4 is a joke, these are worthless with such small benefit. double the bonus back to previous levels
*the turn consoels operate on a % increase. this makes them useless on cruisers, and amazeing on escorts. an eng consoel that gives no benifit to cruisers makes no sense.
*the eps console only buffs the transfer rate, why not have it buff the EPS skill instead? like the SFI console does
*how about a console that buffs targeting or evasion? efficiency or warp core potential?
as far as a special slot is concerned, i think it should vary what you can put there. armor consoles, hanger pets, an additional forward weapon, a second deflector, a second impulse engine or a second shield.
*second impulse engine and shield- this would only apply the mods the second shield has, not anything else. so if this second impulse engine is a [spd]X3, that would stack with what your main impulse engine would have. same thing with a shield.
this could get out of hand so certain items should be restricted from being slotted based on ship type, and sub type. the tactical escort should not be able to slot a hanger pet, and an andorian escort should not be able to slot an additional forward weapon, for example.
I'd prefer this: Add a diminishing returns mechanic to shield resistances for everyone. Give the first 30-40% for free, and then tax anything above that.
One idea for an engineering console would be sort of a pair with the current RCS Accelerator consoles. We've got a console that affects turn rate (although it's still arguable if the benefit is worth it on the ships that really need it), but not inertia and speed, so what about adding an RCS Booster console? For that matter, add a second +Turn Rate console with a flat boost but reduces top speed (Vectored Impulse?)
Second possible suggestion is a console that affects weapon energy besides just a flat boost to the amount. Some sort of auxiliary power injector that partially counters weapons drain, but costs Aux power to equip. Escorts already pretty much run constant 125 weapons power, so these consoles wouldn't really change their damage output much, but would help out Cruisers and maybe certain Science Vessel builds.
There's currently no console that improves Driver Coils, could add one of those.
Another possible suggestion completely out of left field would be for an engineering Armor console that allows the equipping of Heavy Armor on non-cruiser ships (maybe only specific types) at the expense of speed, maneuverability, and/or engine power. This would allow for some of the hybrids (such as the Chimera and Nebula) to potentially maintain their heavy tank builds despite the loss of their normal armor consoles. I'm honestly not even certain this is a good idea, but I'll just toss it out there, maybe it'll give someone else a better idea.
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Engineering consoles remain as they are. (resist consoles).
Armor slot acts like a permanent Jevonite Hardpoints: They increase hull HP.
Just like any other item, the armor slots come in common to purple quality.
Each ship, according to its class, receives a fixed number of armor slots. Think of it like a second row of 'device slots'.
Frigates/escorts/raptors/birds of prey: 1
Battlecruiser, cruisers and flight deck cruisers: 4
Carriers: 6
Dreadnaughts: 10
A much increased hull HP for the larger ships would counter the current insane dps smaller ships have in comparison to the larger ships. It would make cruisers be able to truly tank and be the mainstay of any force and it would make dreadnaughts truly...dread naught.
The devs could, instead of increasing the damage NPCs do, simply beef up every npc to basically the hull HP of a tactical cube in elite stfs.
PLAYER DAMAGE AND HEALING DO NOT CHANGE. If they do, it will make the hull hp increase meaningless to begin with.
This would make each battle epic and truly dependent on who uses the best tactics and who makes the best use of his boff/capt powers.
I don't. I think they could use an increase in damage output and maneuverability.
Bad idea. Really bad idea.
First off ship survivability have very little to do with the resistance of their hull via armor consoles so this will have a very minor effect on the survivability of the ships. Secondly engineering consoles, beyond the armor ones, are dump slots anymore. RCS consoles are so heavily penalized on the ships that would like to use them it is not even funny. +power consoles grant such low bonuses they are not worth it. +Crew resist might serve a purpose if bypassing crew mechanics for your hull regen wasn't a better approach right now. I could go on but yeah.
Obviously yes. But I have to ask a simple question:
How is this more important than fixing the weapon power drain mechanics or the turn rate math? Not to mention the current sustain issue.
So why is this option bad? Why would raising the servivability of every ship in the game be bad? (PVP aside, which I do not think should be balanced around).
If this option doesnt provide me either more HP or more damage resistance, then you might as well call the slot something other than armor... because it wont actually be armor. And if thats the case then you might as well not bother.
Option 1 sounds the best, as far as giving actual armor.
Or a Subspace Field Generator that lowers the effective mass of a ship based on Aux power levels.
How about fixing the bugs in game instead of adding more usless crud ? is this all you can do these days is to sit around making stupid ideas up ? do you have manatees that throw ideas out of a huge tank of water ? not impressed gecko this game really is hitting a new low
We have that for hull already, and I think the same applies to shields. Also, have you SEEN cruisers vs. escorts in PvP? Cruisers get SHREDDED. As it is, they're nearly impotent in PvE anymore. Sorry, but no, something NEEDS to happen.
the issue i see is we pay a lot the ships in the cstore then we lose slot
this is mainly with the bundle which which lose 3 slots
Give them 0.6. Give them a healthy bonus, perhaps the healthiest between escorts, scis and cruisers, to the armour console, to compensate so they can take a couple hits should their shields go down, enough to pop off a heal or two.
Scis already have rock hard high shields and decent hull, and Eng have very high and powerful hull and decent shields. Tacs should have low shields and awesome armour resistance for when their shields fail, at which point they beat a hasty retreat.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I prefer option 2.
Yes, I would be willing to loose Engineering Damage Resistance consoles for an armor slot that gives you about the same resistance, but also offers more options, as long as eng slots aren't affected. I need my slots for uni consoles.
Depending on how they do this, this could be really really good, or really really bad.
If they were to give everyone an armor slot or slots (based on ship type?) and restrict current armor platings from the engineering console role, I think that frustrates a few people, but design wise, is better for the game and (most likely) the intended role of those consoles. I can't imagine it was by design that everyone stacked armor there. Survivability trumps all other options.
If they add this in and make a unique type of armor that goes there AND keep the existing armors in the game, and their existing functionality in engineering console slots, well... expect newer, multi spectrum versions of instant death attacks that blow straight through your shields.
So again. I think it could be really good... but it depends on how they implement it.
So very much agreed here.
Escorts: Lowest shields, moderate armor resistance
Cruisers: Average shields, high armor resistance
Science: Highest shields, moderate armor resistance
An Armor slot should be exactly that: Provide armor. "Ablative Armor" comes to mind, Polarized Hull Armor (NX-01) is another. Looking at the NX-01's armor, you have an armortype which for all intents and purposes, replaces shields. But rather than taking the full force of the damage dealt, the polarized hull redistributes the damage across the entire hull, rather than just the area impacted.
My suggestion - A variant of 'Option 2'.
1) REMOVE the existing Engineering Armor Consoles from the game entirely- maybe allow those that have them to turn them in for Dilithium or something else good - OR allow them to be converted to the equivalent new Armor Consoles AFTER you've made sure no more ENG Armor consoles will be dropping/made via crafting in game. (This also allows players wgho only fly Escorts a way to recoup for Armor consoles they can no longer use if their Escorts can't slot it.
2) Add the 'Armor Console Slots' to the various ships based on whether Cryptic wants that ship to equip armor (It may be that certain Escorts have no armor slots, Sci ships have one or more, Cruisers have thee, etc; BUT this allows Cryptic the flexability to to make 'Armor' a consideration for a certain ship class, regardless of the ship type, be it Escort, Science, or Cruiser.
^^^
this way Cryptic could make the changes it wants, Tacs and Scis get something in return if they were using Engineering Armor consoles, but no longer can - and ship survivability overall is largely unaffected (depending of how Cryptic designs the new armor consoles.
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Oh Yes !!!
This
This
This
This Is The Post Of The Day !!!!!!
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
However, many (if not all) of the current "special" universal consoles should be turned into devices, to go in device slots. Give all C-Store and Fleet ships an extra device slot to compensate.
Instead of a special armour type for cruiser that may be useless loot for the other two classes, what about the Cruisers getting an extra armor slot?
Like.... an escort or a science ship gets 2, a cruiser gets 4 armor slots for example?
Of course, I am assuming these slots would be taking the armour consoles that are currently now Engineering.
Or as told above, making universal consoles into a special universal console slot may be good too, so that they don't take up sci/tac/eng slots.
Ya buddy, give an NVAM Promethius 1/2 the shields of a freebie cruiser.
:eek:
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
If you "get rid of" the existing Engineering Consoles, they could be replaced with identical "Standard Armor" items. This could actually decrease the survivability of some of the ships in-game, as it will only be possible to equip one of these in your Armor slot, instead of multiple items in your Engineering slots.
Cruisers can have Heavy Armor, or the ability to equip multiple pieces of armor, or have a default % bonus to the armor they equip, or something.
For those wondering about KDF cruisers: definitely a valid question, but I think one that could be addressed further down the line. Personally, I'd say let them have their Dual Heavy Cannons as well as Heavy Armor.
Edited to add: The only canon references to Armor I can think of are the Ablative Armor of the Defiant and Prometheus...I think it would be silly for this to be denied to the escorts in-game.
All in all, I think Option 1 is the one I like the most and the safest. Option 2 without know details of exiting Armor console changes, I vote no unless I know more.
And Option 2seems the most potential for causing conflict with the players. Remember the uproar that changing the Field Generator consoles from Engineering to Science and despite assurances existing slotted consoles would be not moved, were (re)moved to overflow bag. And the morphing of Science Consoles with the skills revamped of Season 5. A lot of player got consoles which were useless to them and were stuck with them (i.e. bound).
And sets solely for Cruisers? Do you really want to go there? You eventually gave players access to the MACO and Honor Guard Sets to the other faction (albeit with a paying through the nose cost.).
You realize that Dual (Heavy) Cannons are effectively "useless loot" for most cruiser and science vessels, right? Heavy Armor gives Cruisers parity in class-specific equipment, just need to give Science Vessels something to equal it out.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.