Not an Armor Slot per se, but a Superstructure Slot. Let us choose between lighter space frames with less durability or heavier for more. Impacting speed, turn, inertia, base resist, and hull hp.
Keep the shifts reasonable of course. About a 10% variance should be max.
I would like to see the armor increase with more options however, if they go in a special slot you'll have to increase the defense of the Science ships to compensate because many put these consoles on our ships because they are simply too weak as it is and there's no other way of stacking resistances (there really wouldn't be for science ships if this is as he proposes!) cruisers definitely would need the slots.
When I suggested it in the forums I suggested that they add 2 slots for cruisers 1 slot for science and 0 slots for escorts for the special armor only consoles.
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I hope that armor slot doesn't mean the removal of an eng con because I don't use armor but universal con for my eng slots. I see no point in adding armor.
Armor is useless in STO imo. To make cruisers competitive in pvp, armor isn't needed but a fix in beams skills and better torpedo arc. Cruiser doing fine in pve. Maybe cruiser can have an extra warpcore slot since it's more logical. After al, cruiser is all about power output, science: deflector abilities, and escort: attack.
So extra warpcore slot for cruiser and extra deflector slot seem like a logical choice. However, not sure wat extra for escort.
Armor and their resists are extremely useful, particularly to a tank. My FAC has a minimum of 25% resist, and higher to some, and I am not particularly outfitted with armor, and my survivability is significantly higher because of it. Even with diminishing returns, armor is extremely useful stuff to have, again, as a tank.
This is why I would like to see armor get its own ship class specific equip slot. It would help to define the roles of the ships, and could be used to allow for other designs as well, again, the Heavy Escort, Light Cruiser, etc.
The problem with the armor is more or less how lackluster the engineering consoles are. The other problem is, a buff to engineering consoles would benefit escorts almost as much as cruisers and leave science ships in the dust since they have the least engineering consoles.
Based on that a whole new slot just for structural improvements, where cruisers get the most slots, would be beneficial to them.
mission pods is the only answer I can see for all this . and it would work and they wouldn't need to kill anything we already have and thye could work on any ship as long as it had room for it.
most of these would just allow the player to equip and add current items in game. so each mission pod would still require more items to equip it. on top of buying the mission pod. be it items or officers.
scout 1 slot
escorts 2 slots
cruisers 3 slots
heavy cruisers 4 slots
these are on top of the current console slots so no need to nerf anything and since the mission pods could be used by any class or faction the balance resides with the players
one example could be a tactical pod that had vertical missile rack or torp launcher that had 360 arc but we lose hi yield and spread abilities . and we would still have to equip the weapon separately for lvls.
so say I had the vertical torp launcher in my lvl 20 ship as I leveled up I would still have to replace the weapon . but the launcher would stay the same. and since its a mission pod we should be able to change them between ships but not store them in bank. maybe if we didn't have a ship for storage we could buy dry dock hanger bays to store large gear at the space stations.
or
more armor plating stackable larger ships should be able to hold more than the smaller ships ( require you have the armor consoles to add in)
hanger bays for a wing of pets or more shuttles as combat pets (require you buy the pets limit to one per ship.)
crew quarters for troop transport of colony resettle mission . ( these would be required for the mission now. and remove it from doff mission and make players actually pick up people from point a and deliver to point b be it colonists fed or troops kdf )
science lab to increase science abilities. (drop in two science consoles of choice)
astrometrics lab to increase travel speed. (with more warp cores or rcs cons)
pirate bay for hiding and trading in contraband (required)- (new missions between planets) Federation this should be limited to ferengi captians and kdf side to nausicans. rommy no restriction as they are evil TRIBBLE.s all around LOL
Borg tact pod from rep store. (requires a borg tac Boff)
borg engineer pod from rep store. (requires a borg eng Boff)
Borg science pod from rep store. (requires a borg sci Boff)
bridge officer duty stations one of each class (would require a boff to man it, adding its skills to the tray)
this would give the players more flexibility in how they build a ship.
it would if the mission were added add more content to game.
if mission pods other than rep store pods were zen items it would create money. but they need to priced at a decent rate not more than 500 zen per.
and this was just off the top of my head. some are possibly insane but I think it would be a win win route for the players and the makers. we get things we need. people cant gripe about balance because anybody could use the items. and the game make more money.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
1. Use existing armor consoles and change them from Engineering to Armor.
2. Set # of console slots for ship type. 4 cruiser, 3 Science, 2 escort, 1 shuttle. Diminishing buff for each added.
3. Use the new nuetronium +turn concept. +X for cruiser, +/-0 for science and -X for tac. Diminishing buff/debuff for each added.
4. RCS consoles can add more turn or negate the -X for tactical.
5. Buff other engineering console so they are usefull. RCS no changes at all.
Making that change will have a positive affect for cruisers with having the engineer console slots usefull for something besides defense. science gets to NOW use those very few engineer slots for something or move uni console out of the sci console slots. and a tradeoff for escorts.
if the escort captain decides to go with armor then they lose maneuvarability unless they negate that with RCS consoles. Use RCS and lose other engineering consoles that could be usefull now. Good 2 slots for universal consoles freeing up 2 other slots so theres a benifit.
Science captains lose or gain no manuevarability from the consoles only gain armor. They have few engineering console slots so a trade off of adding more engineer consoles and move universal to the armor could be benificial if they have good surviveability. If they are squishy they can go all armor.
Cruiser captains have the most variety in what to do with engineering and armor slots. Adding all armor consoles and they can increase surviveability and manuevarability but at the expense of other slots for universal consoles. Or they could fill 2 armor with universal and 1 engineering allowing them to have the few science slots free for sci consoles.
Overall i think adding a dedicated armor console slot using exhisting armor opens up more build varieties, more build varieties is always a good thing because if everyone uses the same builds the game gets boring and they may as well just make all ships have a premade setup that cannot be changed and that would suck like a hoover.
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If an armor slot is indeed coming, there should be multiple "weights" of armor to put in them (eg. light, medium, heavy).
As you go up the scale each type would have an increasing effect on speed, turn rate, movement in general basically.
Light, no effect, everything is normal. Medium slows you down a bit, and heavy slows you down a bit more. This would be part of the armor tooltip.
Each type of ship should react differently to armor somehow, for instance cruisers with their massive warp cores would shave off some of the penalties of the armor, so using heavies would have less of a negative effect in them.
Escorts would have no adjustments I think, they wold just have to take the hit and compensate with consoles.
Science would fall somewhere in the middle I suppose.
This way, any ship could use any armor, you would just have to live with the consequences.
Anyone arguing that ENG/Cruisers need a buff to their tanking either doesnt truely understand the balancing issues or just wants to see their ships Uber compared to the other two ship type choices.
Cruisers arent hurting in the Tanking department. What they are hurting on is solid DPS. People jump in Cruisers and expect them to out DPS an Escort and when it doesnt they get POed and blame Escorts and their Captains...I dont blame anyone for feeling that the Cruisers arent living up to their potential. Beam weapons and the energy to supply them just isnt cutting it right now.
But people need to come to the understanding that Escorts and their superior DPS skills arent going anywhere. Escorts, TAC Captains are oriented towards this and SHOULD always out DPS ENG Captains and SCI Captains.
And for those complaining that TAC/Escort Captains are OUT Tanking ENG Captains...You can blame that on two things...
1.) The other Player youre being OUT Tanked by is a better player
2.) Since the introduction of Alien Ships like the JHAS the idea of balance has gone out the window. JHASs are almost completely unstoppable even when focus fired upon. You can blame this issue solely on the Devs and Cryptic/PWEs greed.
But Escorts in general are not the real issue. Any Escort Captain who has spent enough time flying in PvP/PvE will tell you that they are still very much Glass Cannons and their healing abilities are not as Uber as many believe. Without the direct support of another Captain. Escorts can only survive so long in PvP and almost always ends up the preferred target of the opposing team. As its been explained to me by PvP enthusiasts in my Fleet....They cant be sure what that TAC Captain is running on his build/and hes much more vulnerable to focus fire then others so hes ALWAYs going to be the preferred target. Its an easier kill and its eliminating the one person capable of dropping shields in a quick manner.
As for the Armor slots...It makes no sense that Cruisers get Armor slots while Escorts dont. Sure Cruisers are meant to Tank and Armor slots will help when it comes to this...But again. Tanking has never been an issue for Cruisers and leaving Escorts out of this means creating a wider gap between Cruisers survivability and Escorts. This means Escorts would have to some-how survive even longer (in spite of minimal healing abilities and the target of focus fire) to do any sort of worthwhile damage.
If you dont play PvP then youre not going to understand the issue with giving one ship type even more Tanking ability when they are Superior at Tanking in the first place. People might like to blow off PvPers as being untrustworthy when it comes to their opinions about balance. But the truth is PvP gameplay is significantly different from PvE. PvP builds are built around max survivability and DPS. So Cruisers built around PvP are already hugely successful at sitting in the middle of a firefight and rarely seeing their shields drop.
The key to adding armor is going to be giving it to every class of ship. And depending on its orientation for those ships that dont fall directly in a ENG/TAC/SCI category. Those ships should get armor reflecting this.
Cruisers SHOULD get more armor slots then others...Theres no arguing this point.
But Escorts SHOULD NOT be left out because of something like DHCs.
And Escorts receiving a minimum armor slot is not going to 'change' the game. Only bring those Escorts up to a relative level of survivability that does not leave them out of the fight in PvP.
so Bottom Line, Would You Be Willing To Loose Engineering Damage Resistance Consoles For An Armor Slot That Gives You About The Same Resistance, But Also Offers You More Options.
Comments
Keep the shifts reasonable of course. About a 10% variance should be max.
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Armor is useless in STO imo. To make cruisers competitive in pvp, armor isn't needed but a fix in beams skills and better torpedo arc. Cruiser doing fine in pve. Maybe cruiser can have an extra warpcore slot since it's more logical. After al, cruiser is all about power output, science: deflector abilities, and escort: attack.
So extra warpcore slot for cruiser and extra deflector slot seem like a logical choice. However, not sure wat extra for escort.
This is why I would like to see armor get its own ship class specific equip slot. It would help to define the roles of the ships, and could be used to allow for other designs as well, again, the Heavy Escort, Light Cruiser, etc.
Based on that a whole new slot just for structural improvements, where cruisers get the most slots, would be beneficial to them.
most of these would just allow the player to equip and add current items in game. so each mission pod would still require more items to equip it. on top of buying the mission pod. be it items or officers.
scout 1 slot
escorts 2 slots
cruisers 3 slots
heavy cruisers 4 slots
these are on top of the current console slots so no need to nerf anything and since the mission pods could be used by any class or faction the balance resides with the players
one example could be a tactical pod that had vertical missile rack or torp launcher that had 360 arc but we lose hi yield and spread abilities . and we would still have to equip the weapon separately for lvls.
so say I had the vertical torp launcher in my lvl 20 ship as I leveled up I would still have to replace the weapon . but the launcher would stay the same. and since its a mission pod we should be able to change them between ships but not store them in bank. maybe if we didn't have a ship for storage we could buy dry dock hanger bays to store large gear at the space stations.
or
more armor plating stackable larger ships should be able to hold more than the smaller ships ( require you have the armor consoles to add in)
hanger bays for a wing of pets or more shuttles as combat pets (require you buy the pets limit to one per ship.)
crew quarters for troop transport of colony resettle mission . ( these would be required for the mission now. and remove it from doff mission and make players actually pick up people from point a and deliver to point b be it colonists fed or troops kdf )
science lab to increase science abilities. (drop in two science consoles of choice)
astrometrics lab to increase travel speed. (with more warp cores or rcs cons)
pirate bay for hiding and trading in contraband (required)- (new missions between planets) Federation this should be limited to ferengi captians and kdf side to nausicans. rommy no restriction as they are evil TRIBBLE.s all around LOL
Borg tact pod from rep store. (requires a borg tac Boff)
borg engineer pod from rep store. (requires a borg eng Boff)
Borg science pod from rep store. (requires a borg sci Boff)
bridge officer duty stations one of each class (would require a boff to man it, adding its skills to the tray)
this would give the players more flexibility in how they build a ship.
it would if the mission were added add more content to game.
if mission pods other than rep store pods were zen items it would create money. but they need to priced at a decent rate not more than 500 zen per.
and this was just off the top of my head. some are possibly insane but I think it would be a win win route for the players and the makers. we get things we need. people cant gripe about balance because anybody could use the items. and the game make more money.
1. Use existing armor consoles and change them from Engineering to Armor.
2. Set # of console slots for ship type. 4 cruiser, 3 Science, 2 escort, 1 shuttle. Diminishing buff for each added.
3. Use the new nuetronium +turn concept. +X for cruiser, +/-0 for science and -X for tac. Diminishing buff/debuff for each added.
4. RCS consoles can add more turn or negate the -X for tactical.
5. Buff other engineering console so they are usefull. RCS no changes at all.
Making that change will have a positive affect for cruisers with having the engineer console slots usefull for something besides defense. science gets to NOW use those very few engineer slots for something or move uni console out of the sci console slots. and a tradeoff for escorts.
if the escort captain decides to go with armor then they lose maneuvarability unless they negate that with RCS consoles. Use RCS and lose other engineering consoles that could be usefull now. Good 2 slots for universal consoles freeing up 2 other slots so theres a benifit.
Science captains lose or gain no manuevarability from the consoles only gain armor. They have few engineering console slots so a trade off of adding more engineer consoles and move universal to the armor could be benificial if they have good surviveability. If they are squishy they can go all armor.
Cruiser captains have the most variety in what to do with engineering and armor slots. Adding all armor consoles and they can increase surviveability and manuevarability but at the expense of other slots for universal consoles. Or they could fill 2 armor with universal and 1 engineering allowing them to have the few science slots free for sci consoles.
Overall i think adding a dedicated armor console slot using exhisting armor opens up more build varieties, more build varieties is always a good thing because if everyone uses the same builds the game gets boring and they may as well just make all ships have a premade setup that cannot be changed and that would suck like a hoover.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
As you go up the scale each type would have an increasing effect on speed, turn rate, movement in general basically.
Light, no effect, everything is normal. Medium slows you down a bit, and heavy slows you down a bit more. This would be part of the armor tooltip.
Each type of ship should react differently to armor somehow, for instance cruisers with their massive warp cores would shave off some of the penalties of the armor, so using heavies would have less of a negative effect in them.
Escorts would have no adjustments I think, they wold just have to take the hit and compensate with consoles.
Science would fall somewhere in the middle I suppose.
This way, any ship could use any armor, you would just have to live with the consequences.
Cruisers 2 Sci 1 Escorts 0
"armor slots" is that not like a shield slot?? that being the case why not have another slot for shields??
be kind, PLEASE.
Cruisers arent hurting in the Tanking department. What they are hurting on is solid DPS. People jump in Cruisers and expect them to out DPS an Escort and when it doesnt they get POed and blame Escorts and their Captains...I dont blame anyone for feeling that the Cruisers arent living up to their potential. Beam weapons and the energy to supply them just isnt cutting it right now.
But people need to come to the understanding that Escorts and their superior DPS skills arent going anywhere. Escorts, TAC Captains are oriented towards this and SHOULD always out DPS ENG Captains and SCI Captains.
And for those complaining that TAC/Escort Captains are OUT Tanking ENG Captains...You can blame that on two things...
1.) The other Player youre being OUT Tanked by is a better player
2.) Since the introduction of Alien Ships like the JHAS the idea of balance has gone out the window. JHASs are almost completely unstoppable even when focus fired upon. You can blame this issue solely on the Devs and Cryptic/PWEs greed.
But Escorts in general are not the real issue. Any Escort Captain who has spent enough time flying in PvP/PvE will tell you that they are still very much Glass Cannons and their healing abilities are not as Uber as many believe. Without the direct support of another Captain. Escorts can only survive so long in PvP and almost always ends up the preferred target of the opposing team. As its been explained to me by PvP enthusiasts in my Fleet....They cant be sure what that TAC Captain is running on his build/and hes much more vulnerable to focus fire then others so hes ALWAYs going to be the preferred target. Its an easier kill and its eliminating the one person capable of dropping shields in a quick manner.
As for the Armor slots...It makes no sense that Cruisers get Armor slots while Escorts dont. Sure Cruisers are meant to Tank and Armor slots will help when it comes to this...But again. Tanking has never been an issue for Cruisers and leaving Escorts out of this means creating a wider gap between Cruisers survivability and Escorts. This means Escorts would have to some-how survive even longer (in spite of minimal healing abilities and the target of focus fire) to do any sort of worthwhile damage.
If you dont play PvP then youre not going to understand the issue with giving one ship type even more Tanking ability when they are Superior at Tanking in the first place. People might like to blow off PvPers as being untrustworthy when it comes to their opinions about balance. But the truth is PvP gameplay is significantly different from PvE. PvP builds are built around max survivability and DPS. So Cruisers built around PvP are already hugely successful at sitting in the middle of a firefight and rarely seeing their shields drop.
The key to adding armor is going to be giving it to every class of ship. And depending on its orientation for those ships that dont fall directly in a ENG/TAC/SCI category. Those ships should get armor reflecting this.
Cruisers SHOULD get more armor slots then others...Theres no arguing this point.
But Escorts SHOULD NOT be left out because of something like DHCs.
And Escorts receiving a minimum armor slot is not going to 'change' the game. Only bring those Escorts up to a relative level of survivability that does not leave them out of the fight in PvP.
Keep calm, and continue firing photon torpedoes.
yes!yes!yes!