Well there has hardlly been an outcry to nerf it - on the contrary there has been plenty of Feds bemoaning it to be buffed - a second time in the space of a week............. :eek:
Yes it does need to be buffed, but no not for the 2nd time in a week. The first time wasn't a buff, it was fixing there error so that its stats would be what they say they are.
and agree that the KDF need some new shinies ASAP, and they'd better be worth the wait.
amen to that, though more than new ships, the KDF really needs the missions to fly those ships through...oh, and more uniforms; one just does not cut it
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Yes it does need to be buffed, but no not for the 2nd time in a week. The first time wasn't a buff, it was fixing there error so that its stats would be what they say they are.
They were very clear about it being a glass cannon not?
"strike a balance between offensive firepower and defensive strength, the Andorian Escort line focuses exclusively on dealing damage. It's what players might call a "glass cannon" - formidable offense at the cost of versatility and survivability."
So it was buffed.
Some people might not agree with you proposition as there's already more "buff my escort" threads.
And here's a newsflash for you buddy. By Cryptic own admission and actions PvP plays a very, very important role in their engine. What is the number one source for datamining of their development and investment, and I am speak in my own capacity as a Developer for an unrelated company?
"Buddy?". I'm insulted now. Yeah, all contrary opinions MUST die now because you SAY you're a dev. Sorry, this won't fly with me, "buddy." PvP is a dead letter in this game, whether you want to let that fact soak through that thin skull of yours, or not. If it was SO damned hot, why doesn't Cryptic support it with changes that would make it more palatable for a wider audience?
Oh and by the way, in regards to Space PvP - have you seen the competition? LOL
Yeah, wow. That's why these "pros" come on zone begging for people to join, so they jump them like a pack of wolves. Sure, there are LOADS of ways to improve PvP in this game, but Cryptic doesn't seem to be interested.
Slate programmers all you want, but the developers at Cryptic are some of the most talented, most sort after in the world buddy.
Woah, slow down there, nellie. I did't say a word about Cryptic or their skills as devs, so you can just stow that BS. Don't lie just because it makes you "feel" good. I panned your silly affirmation of the idea that the Ando needs to be nerfed into oblivion.
bugspatteredjack - sorry not directed at you or anyone in particular, just pent-up frustrated and all.
None Taken!
I will say that I am surprised however that the Klingons don't get more TLC! As far as I can see this game's very warlike nature screams Klingon more so than it does peace and exploration. That being said, if not for the lack of content on the klink side I'd be rolling out a Klingon Tac as my primary!
Apparently in May the Klinks get a major upgrade so who knows!?! :rolleyes:
"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." - Rocky Balboa (2006)
"Buddy?". I'm insulted now. Yeah, all contrary opinions MUST die now because you SAY you're a dev. Sorry, this won't fly with me, "buddy." PvP is a dead letter in this game, whether you want to let that fact soak through that thin skull of yours, or not. If it was SO damned hot, why doesn't Cryptic support it with changes that would make it more palatable for a wider audience?
Yeah, wow. That's why these "pros" come on zone begging for people to join, so they jump them like a pack of wolves. Sure, there are LOADS of ways to improve PvP in this game, but Cryptic doesn't seem to be interested.
Woah, slow down there, nellie. I did't say a word about Cryptic or their skills as devs, so you can just stow that BS. Don't lie just because it makes you "feel" good. I panned your silly affirmation of the idea that the Ando needs to be nerfed into oblivion.
Just returning the favor "buddy", with all your "here's a new flash" and "forest from the trees" insults thrown around. And by the sounds of it you enjoy insulting people. I had the decency to edit my original post if you had bothered to look.
And sorry when you say "the broken, ego-driven, insanity-inducing component laughingly called "PvP" in this game.", I take it you do not intent to slate the developers? Funny. If I was one of them and someone said this about my daily work - gosh, would slated be the right word.
And for the love of all that is holy - point me to where I ONCE intoned or indicated that the Andorian Escort needs to be nerfed. If you reread what I said, it was that the Andorian escort is OP. Point me to any equivalent? And guess what. The JHAS isn't one of them. Does the JHAS have 5 fore DHC? Does the JHAS has any special features?
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
It isn't the ship that's OP, it's how the player sets it up. Don't nerf a ship because a few handful of players made them powerhouses.
Completely agree with this. And also don't nerf ships because some people are too lazy to figure out how to work around a ship's advantages & exploit its disadvantages.
They were very clear about it being a glass cannon not?
"strike a balance between offensive firepower and defensive strength, the Andorian Escort line focuses exclusively on dealing damage. It's what players might call a "glass cannon" - formidable offense at the cost of versatility and survivability."
So it was buffed.
Some people might not agree with you proposition as there's already more "buff my escort" threads.
That is just factually incorrect. It was advertised VERY clearly to have a shield modifier of .9, when it was released it effectively had a shield modifier closer to .6 The limited heals you have room for on it also where only functioning at less than half the effect they should have. The developers confirmed this was a BUG. Fixing a bug is not a buff.
And sorry when you say "the broken, ego-driven, insanity-inducing component laughingly called "PvP" in this game.", I take it you do not intent to slate the developers? Funny. If I was one of them and someone said this about my daily work - gosh, would slated be the right word.
Take it any way that gets you all moist and salty.
And for the love of all that is holy - point me to where I ONCE intoned or indicated that the Andorian Escort needs to be nerfed. If you reread what I said, it was that the Andorian escort is OP. Point me to any equivalent? And guess what. The JHAS isn't one of them. Does the JHAS have 5 fore DHC? Does the JHAS has any special features?
This thread is about nerfing it, and you wholeheartedly agreed, or did you edit that out too? It's OP? No it isn't, or does your experience with it only include PvP, where console stacking and the constant search for ego-boosting programming snafus lives?
As far as the DREADED 5 hardpoints fore, it turns out that the concept is a bit misleading for many configuration choices. I prefer a fore torp for burst, that leaves 4 points. If I want the wing cannons online, I have to use the SLOW firing Kumari cannon. That leaves me 3 Ando VR DHC's, a cutter and a fleet turret. In reality, that leaves me with a "glass cannon" that's a bit more powerful than my beloved fleet Defiant or even the fleet AE. with their 5 tac consoles. And please, don't try to sell the wing plats up as a "cannon" because to use them I have to fly in what I think is a non-escort manner to keep them from being ganked and having to wait 3-mins to see a fresh set.
And there'd this:
Well there has hardlly been an outcry to nerf it...
If you think this is the case, you need to expand your reading of the forums.
I've flown both. Have you?
I couldn't care less about the bug, because I refuse to play the lottery, or pay a rip-off price for it on the exchange.
I don't tend to let loose with information that isn't varifiable, hence my reaction to your "I'm a dev too!!!" outburst. However, I will say JUST this, in a large fleet I'm considered by many to be a very dangerous escort captain. Whether I've flown something YOU value doesn't come into it. I've clocked several hours in the Ando, since minutes after release, and that's what we're discussing here.
And what native ship does the KDF enjoy? None.
I don't care about KDF or PvP. Please try to keep that in mind.
Take it any way that gets you all moist and salty.
This thread is about nerfing it, and you wholeheartedly agreed, or did you edit that out too? It's OP? No it isn't, or does your experience with it only include PvP, where console stacking and the constant search for ego-boosting programming snafus lives?
As far as the DREADED 5 hardpoints fore, it turns out that the concept is a bit misleading for many configuration choices. I prefer a fore torp for burst, that leaves 4 points. If I want the wing cannons online, I have to use the SLOW firing Kumari cannon. That leaves me 3 Ando VR DHC's, a cutter and a fleet turret. In reality, that leaves me with a "glass cannon" that's a bit more powerful than my beloved fleet Defiant or even the fleet AE. with their 5 tac consoles. And please, don't try to sell the wing plats up as a "cannon" because to use them I have to fly in what I think is a non-escort manner to keep them from being ganked and having to wait 3-mins to see a fresh set.
And there'd this:
If you think this is the case, you need to expand your reading of the forums.
I couldn't care less about the bug, because I refuse to play the lottery, or pay a rip-off price for it on the exchange.
I don't tend to let loose with information that isn't varifiable, hence my reaction to your "I'm a dev too!!!" outburst. However, I will say JUST this, in a large fleet I'm considered by many to be a very dangerous escort captain. Whether I've flown something YOU value doesn't come into it. I've clocked several hours in the Ando, since minutes after release, and that's what we're discussing here.
I don't care about KDF or PvP. Please try to keep that in mind.
My sincere apologies. I completely get now why you do not believe there's any problem.
Should have seen it much sooner, and saved us both the wasted effort.
The extent of your maturity and poor attempts at wit and sarcasm really do you no justice whatsoever.
I would remind you this is a public forum.
And one last thing. Your last statement. Unlike you, I do care about the community as a whole.
That is just factually incorrect. It was advertised VERY clearly to have a shield modifier of .9, when it was released it effectively had a shield modifier closer to .6 The limited heals you have room for on it also where only functioning at less than half the effect they should have. The developers confirmed this was a BUG. Fixing a bug is not a buff.
I know that wasn't addressed to me, but I'll give my insight into my gripe withPvP. For me, it's mostly because they don't support it. Nothing really new to do in PVP in years. I had great fun in PvP for about the first four to five months of the game after launch. It got monotonous after that. I've dabbled here and there but it just doesn't hold my attention long enough to stick with it.
That being said, PVE's not exactly lighting the world on fire with attention grabbing. Grindy grinds are boring grinds.
I don't hate PvP. But I don't have a whole lot of incentive to do much in it other than goof around from time to time.
Good news is, for me, that means I know my place in the hierarchy. And I never really care if I die easily to much more dedicated players than me. They put the time in. I got lazy with it.
Supposedly PvP is going to get some attention in the future. But I've heard that promise before. I'll wait and see.
I bought the bundle as well and am more than satisfied. This ship has gotten me killed in the first time since I don't know when and I love it. Flying around in a perfect ship is boring. The combos offered by the set let my combine my gear in new and amazing glass cannons that challenge my ability to stay in the fight while giving me the payoff of juicy kills and my own occasional heroic spectacular death.
Whenever I comment on the virtues of a ship as to whether or not it is unbalanced, there are ONLY 2 things in my mind:
1.) What would an experienced, talented PvP player do in it. And more importantly a dedicated premade. I am not interested in the masses, or ganking some unsuspecting newbie in Ker'rat.
2.) When a ship is released, I immediately have a sense of its abilities, builds + matched with consoles, and current in-game mechanics. That comes from having played for 3 years. I am also not the only one capable of this feat. I then immediately juxtapose the ship against the other side of the equation in terms of what the other playable faction have to serve as an equal. And, on this over the last 1 1/2 years, the divide has become wider than the Grand Canyon.
I do not lament the ship, and yes, it's obviously the evolution to Tier 6 ships.
Perhaps folks need to ask themselves exactly what defines "Overpowered"?
Take ever escort in the game including the JHAS. Run the tests on a full frontal alpha compared to that of a 5 TAC console 5x DHC attack. Prove me wrong that the DPS is not OP. Then run every single ship in the game, and try defend against that attack. There's your OP.
People are arguing that this ship is not OP by the nature of its healing potential, but I would argue that this ship IS OP, by the nature of its DPS in conjunction with team support, the way that PvP is intended to be played, and is being played by the best.
But that's my argument.
If cryptic released a ship with CDR universal LTC universe LT universe x3 fedside with battlecloak 20 turn rate and 40k hull, I bet you $100 that atleast 20% of the people using this ship will be killable by a JHAS.
Point being, I swap out of my JHAS, into the Engineer Andorian escort, I have Just as much tanking as my JHAS, I have MORE Dps, and I can set it up to th epoint where im just rediculus numbers.
if I was doing 25k DPS in it, would you call the ship OP. The majority the players who use it, suck. Granted. However, its the 5% Who are like me, that can turn any ship into a ball of death. I can out DPS the majority of JHAS in STO, using the D'Kora, which has been called the worst lockbox ship in STO, by a lot of people. if I were to buy the Andorian escort, and set it up as AOE dps, I would be running 25k DPS easy. I would be doing more DPS then most people can dream of hitting.
Its OP because of potential, not application. I can make an argument that the Graumba is OP, I have a graumba, it can do the same DPS as a JHAS< and tank BETTER. Simply because of the passive drains it can reach. I can turn ur weapon power into nothing! Just because ppl don't know ho wto use a ship, doesn't mean it isn't OP.
If cryptic released a ship with CDR universal LTC universe LT universe x3 fedside with battlecloak 20 turn rate and 40k hull, I bet you $100 that atleast 20% of the people using this ship will be killable by a JHAS.
Point being, I swap out of my JHAS, into the Engineer Andorian escort, I have Just as much tanking as my JHAS, I have MORE Dps, and I can set it up to th epoint where im just rediculus numbers.
if I was doing 25k DPS in it, would you call the ship OP. The majority the players who use it, suck. Granted. However, its the 5% Who are like me, that can turn any ship into a ball of death. I can out DPS the majority of JHAS in STO, using the D'Kora, which has been called the worst lockbox ship in STO, by a lot of people. if I were to buy the Andorian escort, and set it up as AOE dps, I would be running 25k DPS easy. I would be doing more DPS then most people can dream of hitting.
Its OP because of potential, not application. I can make an argument that the Graumba is OP, I have a graumba, it can do the same DPS as a JHAS< and tank BETTER. Simply because of the passive drains it can reach. I can turn ur weapon power into nothing! Just because ppl don't know ho wto use a ship, doesn't mean it isn't OP.
Now, I don't have a stake in this argument. Nor am I taking sides. I just want to ask this:
If using a JHAS as a baseline, and you say a D'Kora and Garumba can be made to out-DPS them (and I am not going to argue that this cannot be done), and the Andorian escort has the potential to out-DPS the aforementioned JHAS in theory, but has not proven to be so in application for most, so far--if you're going to put the D'Kora, the Garumba, and by your statements above the Andorian escort--then there seems to be a severe problem with the definition of over-powered.
To be over-powered, a ship has to be clearly superior to other options. Your description seems to muddy up the pecking order of ships. Now, I don't believe there should be a pecking order of ships--and the ability to take some supposedly "lesser" ships and making them equal or better than stated top performers would suggest that the gap between most ships is more skill than ship selection--so don't get me wrong, but:
If skill and a good build can make some other ships match our apparently accepted baseline--even surpass it--and yet one says that the Andorian escort is potentially but not necessarily applicably better, that seems to refute that any of the aforementioned ships are particularly over- or under-powered.
Now, again, I'm not here to argue, so much as ask for clearer discussion. Though I don't refute any of your statements in particular, the entire post as a whole seems to lessen the impact of stating the Andorian escort as over-powered. It doesn't make a good case if many other ships can be brought to level or surpass the ship that the Kumari itself is only marginally (and as you say, not applicably) better than.
Finally, this is for everyone: without proper statistical analysis with a reasonable baseline, all discussion of any ship being over- or under-powered is simply a forum game, and is unlikely to lead to any changes for the better of the game. Saying you can hit some mark of DPS at some point isn't good enough statistical analysis. It would require at least proper charting of highest point DPS, sustained DPS over a reasonable amount of time, and analysis of survivability. It would also require an accepted baseline character build and would have to somehow remove player skill as a variable. It would also require some kind of way to agree upon a baseline BOff power combo for a specific build of ship. Otherwise, this entire thread, and all threads like it is entirely useless.
Now, if everyone's fine with useless discussion and just want to vent...well, that's all fine and dandy. I just wanted to make clear here that I don't see much in real arguments in the short time I've spent actually reading most ship threads. Definitely seeing a lack of real arguments based on quantifiable evidence via documented experimentation. At least in this thread.
I don't own or plan on getting this ship as I would have preffered a different boff layout from escorts I already own so I can only comment on being on the reciving end of this ship from multiple characters/ships.
This ship kills Fed cruisers pretty good, mine has been dying more then usual in matches where there a few Kumaris around.
It is however extremley vulnerable to cloaked ships. Other ships that pack this kind of firepower coming from either 5 tac consoles or 5 fore weapons have more survivability, Fleet Defiant, bugship and Fleet advanced escort all have either better manuverability, hull, shields, or cloak. The Kumari has the firepower of these ships but not as much defenses, so makes a much more appealing target for a cloaked ambusher. My B'rel torp boat and Fleet Hoh'sus alpha striker have had no problems killing the kumari and hasn't died to it yet. My Fed is going back into a Fleet Defiant too because of the kumari
Drain builds also shut down this ship pretty good. My Karfi running AA, leech, ES3, Tykens, polarons, and adv siphon drones shuts this thing down and kills it with no problem too, only died once in kerrat to it while being ganged up on. This build also shuts down most other builds though so not really a fault of the Kumari, just showing the ship isn't invincible and there are many ways to beat it.
How is this a glass cannon?! I have run into so many of these ships in Ker'rat with hulls up to 44k (The Odyssey Star Cruiser comes with 42k standard issue). And the Kumari's shield mod is 0.1 less than a Galaxy - X's shield modifier.
The Kumari line is stupid and should be deleted from existence.
How is this a glass cannon?! I have run into so many of these ships in Ker'rat with hulls up to 44k (The Odyssey Star Cruiser comes with 42k standard issue). And the Kumari's shield mod is 0.1 less than a Galaxy - X's shield modifier.
The Kumari line is stupid and should be deleted from existence.
Wait, what? You need to compare to other ships that are out there. It's pretty standard for Crusiers to have a 1.0 modifier to shields and an escort to have .9 (just look at any shipyard). Kumari is no different there (and a couple of the nice fleet escorts have 1.0 or higher, if I remember right). So nothing to see there.
And you have to look at the hull numbers of Kumaris before they're buffed by the player. They're all in line with what other escort ships have already (32k). I don't recall how the game shows the hull numbers with the player buffing them, but any star cruiser that starts at 42k is going to be way stronger than a Kumari with only 32k at its start point.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
On paper this thing looks as though it will punish you but a JHAS will punish you more
After facing them for a week or so now there too easy to get behind and kill even in a torkhat
Granted if you end up in front of one your toast
They are in no way a tank yeah maybe if you have an eng or sci in one but then you tac team will just deal with its damage
Ill admit I was worried at first but now I see there just another fedscort yeah the devs will buff them(like in the planned patch) until they are better than anything else except of course their precious JHAS
But I say bring it on its quite amusing just picturing them screaming at their monitors saying Ahhh that free heghta just blew my shiny new ?50 ship up
I don't play high end I subnuc you, you subnuc me pvp I just play for fun so don't know what there like in the rich mans part of the game
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
I picked up a Charal yesterday and tested her in ISE and KASE. I like it, but I found that the ship's real challenge was keeping stuff in her arc. Never before have I been more forced to remain aware of my dinky 45-degree DHC arc or my distance to target. Unlike my Armitage, Mobius, Prometheus or even my Defiant-R, I have been forced to KEEP MOVING or been genuinely worried about getting tractored or contemplating using Attack Pattern Omega instead of Beta.
She's got a lower turn rate, so you really need to keep track of where she's facing to bring those bitchin' cannons to bear. Her two back turrets simply aren't enough to do significant damage when you're out of arc, so I've found myself hitting reverse and Evasive Maneuvers far more often than any other ship I've played. In Elite STFs my usual "park and shoot" tactics lead to death.
I've never felt more "glass" than in an Andorian escort. It's frankly refreshing! The Andorian escort has brought some tension back to STFs.
At the same time, I've never killed anything more quickly once I got them in my sights. Slaughtering a crowd of probes with one Scatter Volley is an utter joy, and wasting a KASE generator in a matter of seconds is a godly feeling.
I've been running Attack Pattern Omega on my Charal, mainly because I've been grinding Romulan marks in Tau Dewa Sector Patrols and the Tholians are annoying.
I've found Omega to be useful on the Charal.
And yeah, the fun of melting groups of Probes or Borg Neg'Vahrs or Borg BoPs or Nanite Spheres with a Scatter Volley is really really fun.
Comments
Yes it does need to be buffed, but no not for the 2nd time in a week. The first time wasn't a buff, it was fixing there error so that its stats would be what they say they are.
amen to that, though more than new ships, the KDF really needs the missions to fly those ships through...oh, and more uniforms; one just does not cut it
i never had either of those before, so i don't know if i'd like them
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
They were very clear about it being a glass cannon not?
"strike a balance between offensive firepower and defensive strength, the Andorian Escort line focuses exclusively on dealing damage. It's what players might call a "glass cannon" - formidable offense at the cost of versatility and survivability."
So it was buffed.
Some people might not agree with you proposition as there's already more "buff my escort" threads.
No worries second buff incoming *facepalm*
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
"Buddy?". I'm insulted now. Yeah, all contrary opinions MUST die now because you SAY you're a dev. Sorry, this won't fly with me, "buddy." PvP is a dead letter in this game, whether you want to let that fact soak through that thin skull of yours, or not. If it was SO damned hot, why doesn't Cryptic support it with changes that would make it more palatable for a wider audience?
Yeah, wow. That's why these "pros" come on zone begging for people to join, so they jump them like a pack of wolves. Sure, there are LOADS of ways to improve PvP in this game, but Cryptic doesn't seem to be interested.
Woah, slow down there, nellie. I did't say a word about Cryptic or their skills as devs, so you can just stow that BS. Don't lie just because it makes you "feel" good. I panned your silly affirmation of the idea that the Ando needs to be nerfed into oblivion.
None Taken!
I will say that I am surprised however that the Klingons don't get more TLC! As far as I can see this game's very warlike nature screams Klingon more so than it does peace and exploration. That being said, if not for the lack of content on the klink side I'd be rolling out a Klingon Tac as my primary!
Apparently in May the Klinks get a major upgrade so who knows!?! :rolleyes:
Just returning the favor "buddy", with all your "here's a new flash" and "forest from the trees" insults thrown around. And by the sounds of it you enjoy insulting people. I had the decency to edit my original post if you had bothered to look.
And sorry when you say "the broken, ego-driven, insanity-inducing component laughingly called "PvP" in this game.", I take it you do not intent to slate the developers? Funny. If I was one of them and someone said this about my daily work - gosh, would slated be the right word.
And for the love of all that is holy - point me to where I ONCE intoned or indicated that the Andorian Escort needs to be nerfed. If you reread what I said, it was that the Andorian escort is OP. Point me to any equivalent? And guess what. The JHAS isn't one of them. Does the JHAS have 5 fore DHC? Does the JHAS has any special features?
I've flown both. Have you?
And what native ship does the KDF enjoy? None.
'apparently' being the key word there; remember, it was stahl who said that, and his promises have been rather...lackluster so far
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Completely agree with this. And also don't nerf ships because some people are too lazy to figure out how to work around a ship's advantages & exploit its disadvantages.
That is just factually incorrect. It was advertised VERY clearly to have a shield modifier of .9, when it was released it effectively had a shield modifier closer to .6 The limited heals you have room for on it also where only functioning at less than half the effect they should have. The developers confirmed this was a BUG. Fixing a bug is not a buff.
Take it any way that gets you all moist and salty.
This thread is about nerfing it, and you wholeheartedly agreed, or did you edit that out too? It's OP? No it isn't, or does your experience with it only include PvP, where console stacking and the constant search for ego-boosting programming snafus lives?
As far as the DREADED 5 hardpoints fore, it turns out that the concept is a bit misleading for many configuration choices. I prefer a fore torp for burst, that leaves 4 points. If I want the wing cannons online, I have to use the SLOW firing Kumari cannon. That leaves me 3 Ando VR DHC's, a cutter and a fleet turret. In reality, that leaves me with a "glass cannon" that's a bit more powerful than my beloved fleet Defiant or even the fleet AE. with their 5 tac consoles. And please, don't try to sell the wing plats up as a "cannon" because to use them I have to fly in what I think is a non-escort manner to keep them from being ganked and having to wait 3-mins to see a fresh set.
And there'd this:
If you think this is the case, you need to expand your reading of the forums.
I couldn't care less about the bug, because I refuse to play the lottery, or pay a rip-off price for it on the exchange.
I don't tend to let loose with information that isn't varifiable, hence my reaction to your "I'm a dev too!!!" outburst. However, I will say JUST this, in a large fleet I'm considered by many to be a very dangerous escort captain. Whether I've flown something YOU value doesn't come into it. I've clocked several hours in the Ando, since minutes after release, and that's what we're discussing here.
I don't care about KDF or PvP. Please try to keep that in mind.
My sincere apologies. I completely get now why you do not believe there's any problem.
Should have seen it much sooner, and saved us both the wasted effort.
The extent of your maturity and poor attempts at wit and sarcasm really do you no justice whatsoever.
I would remind you this is a public forum.
And one last thing. Your last statement. Unlike you, I do care about the community as a whole.
Cryptic will ONLY be interested in PvP if the players are interested first.
Why so much hate for PvP? If you dont like PvP because you're having trouble then might I suggest that you sign up for PvP Bootcamp
Thanks John for clarifying this for me.
I know that wasn't addressed to me, but I'll give my insight into my gripe withPvP. For me, it's mostly because they don't support it. Nothing really new to do in PVP in years. I had great fun in PvP for about the first four to five months of the game after launch. It got monotonous after that. I've dabbled here and there but it just doesn't hold my attention long enough to stick with it.
That being said, PVE's not exactly lighting the world on fire with attention grabbing. Grindy grinds are boring grinds.
I don't hate PvP. But I don't have a whole lot of incentive to do much in it other than goof around from time to time.
Good news is, for me, that means I know my place in the hierarchy. And I never really care if I die easily to much more dedicated players than me. They put the time in. I got lazy with it.
Supposedly PvP is going to get some attention in the future. But I've heard that promise before. I'll wait and see.
But that's my argument.
If cryptic released a ship with CDR universal LTC universe LT universe x3 fedside with battlecloak 20 turn rate and 40k hull, I bet you $100 that atleast 20% of the people using this ship will be killable by a JHAS.
Point being, I swap out of my JHAS, into the Engineer Andorian escort, I have Just as much tanking as my JHAS, I have MORE Dps, and I can set it up to th epoint where im just rediculus numbers.
if I was doing 25k DPS in it, would you call the ship OP. The majority the players who use it, suck. Granted. However, its the 5% Who are like me, that can turn any ship into a ball of death. I can out DPS the majority of JHAS in STO, using the D'Kora, which has been called the worst lockbox ship in STO, by a lot of people. if I were to buy the Andorian escort, and set it up as AOE dps, I would be running 25k DPS easy. I would be doing more DPS then most people can dream of hitting.
Its OP because of potential, not application. I can make an argument that the Graumba is OP, I have a graumba, it can do the same DPS as a JHAS< and tank BETTER. Simply because of the passive drains it can reach. I can turn ur weapon power into nothing! Just because ppl don't know ho wto use a ship, doesn't mean it isn't OP.
Now, I don't have a stake in this argument. Nor am I taking sides. I just want to ask this:
If using a JHAS as a baseline, and you say a D'Kora and Garumba can be made to out-DPS them (and I am not going to argue that this cannot be done), and the Andorian escort has the potential to out-DPS the aforementioned JHAS in theory, but has not proven to be so in application for most, so far--if you're going to put the D'Kora, the Garumba, and by your statements above the Andorian escort--then there seems to be a severe problem with the definition of over-powered.
To be over-powered, a ship has to be clearly superior to other options. Your description seems to muddy up the pecking order of ships. Now, I don't believe there should be a pecking order of ships--and the ability to take some supposedly "lesser" ships and making them equal or better than stated top performers would suggest that the gap between most ships is more skill than ship selection--so don't get me wrong, but:
If skill and a good build can make some other ships match our apparently accepted baseline--even surpass it--and yet one says that the Andorian escort is potentially but not necessarily applicably better, that seems to refute that any of the aforementioned ships are particularly over- or under-powered.
Now, again, I'm not here to argue, so much as ask for clearer discussion. Though I don't refute any of your statements in particular, the entire post as a whole seems to lessen the impact of stating the Andorian escort as over-powered. It doesn't make a good case if many other ships can be brought to level or surpass the ship that the Kumari itself is only marginally (and as you say, not applicably) better than.
Finally, this is for everyone: without proper statistical analysis with a reasonable baseline, all discussion of any ship being over- or under-powered is simply a forum game, and is unlikely to lead to any changes for the better of the game. Saying you can hit some mark of DPS at some point isn't good enough statistical analysis. It would require at least proper charting of highest point DPS, sustained DPS over a reasonable amount of time, and analysis of survivability. It would also require an accepted baseline character build and would have to somehow remove player skill as a variable. It would also require some kind of way to agree upon a baseline BOff power combo for a specific build of ship. Otherwise, this entire thread, and all threads like it is entirely useless.
Now, if everyone's fine with useless discussion and just want to vent...well, that's all fine and dandy. I just wanted to make clear here that I don't see much in real arguments in the short time I've spent actually reading most ship threads. Definitely seeing a lack of real arguments based on quantifiable evidence via documented experimentation. At least in this thread.
This ship kills Fed cruisers pretty good, mine has been dying more then usual in matches where there a few Kumaris around.
It is however extremley vulnerable to cloaked ships. Other ships that pack this kind of firepower coming from either 5 tac consoles or 5 fore weapons have more survivability, Fleet Defiant, bugship and Fleet advanced escort all have either better manuverability, hull, shields, or cloak. The Kumari has the firepower of these ships but not as much defenses, so makes a much more appealing target for a cloaked ambusher. My B'rel torp boat and Fleet Hoh'sus alpha striker have had no problems killing the kumari and hasn't died to it yet. My Fed is going back into a Fleet Defiant too because of the kumari
Drain builds also shut down this ship pretty good. My Karfi running AA, leech, ES3, Tykens, polarons, and adv siphon drones shuts this thing down and kills it with no problem too, only died once in kerrat to it while being ganged up on. This build also shuts down most other builds though so not really a fault of the Kumari, just showing the ship isn't invincible and there are many ways to beat it.
Full stop right there.
Elite Defense Stovokor
The Kumari line is stupid and should be deleted from existence.
Wait, what? You need to compare to other ships that are out there. It's pretty standard for Crusiers to have a 1.0 modifier to shields and an escort to have .9 (just look at any shipyard). Kumari is no different there (and a couple of the nice fleet escorts have 1.0 or higher, if I remember right). So nothing to see there.
And you have to look at the hull numbers of Kumaris before they're buffed by the player. They're all in line with what other escort ships have already (32k). I don't recall how the game shows the hull numbers with the player buffing them, but any star cruiser that starts at 42k is going to be way stronger than a Kumari with only 32k at its start point.
they will be in 2 days
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
well, you tell me
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=567331
they look to be pretty good changes, but i don't have an eye for that kind of stuff
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
After facing them for a week or so now there too easy to get behind and kill even in a torkhat
Granted if you end up in front of one your toast
They are in no way a tank yeah maybe if you have an eng or sci in one but then you tac team will just deal with its damage
Ill admit I was worried at first but now I see there just another fedscort yeah the devs will buff them(like in the planned patch) until they are better than anything else except of course their precious JHAS
But I say bring it on its quite amusing just picturing them screaming at their monitors saying Ahhh that free heghta just blew my shiny new ?50 ship up
I don't play high end I subnuc you, you subnuc me pvp I just play for fun so don't know what there like in the rich mans part of the game
She's got a lower turn rate, so you really need to keep track of where she's facing to bring those bitchin' cannons to bear. Her two back turrets simply aren't enough to do significant damage when you're out of arc, so I've found myself hitting reverse and Evasive Maneuvers far more often than any other ship I've played. In Elite STFs my usual "park and shoot" tactics lead to death.
I've never felt more "glass" than in an Andorian escort. It's frankly refreshing! The Andorian escort has brought some tension back to STFs.
At the same time, I've never killed anything more quickly once I got them in my sights. Slaughtering a crowd of probes with one Scatter Volley is an utter joy, and wasting a KASE generator in a matter of seconds is a godly feeling.
I've found Omega to be useful on the Charal.
And yeah, the fun of melting groups of Probes or Borg Neg'Vahrs or Borg BoPs or Nanite Spheres with a Scatter Volley is really really fun.