An apology is due, and while I've admitted fault in previous posts about this , I'll do so again in this one.
<snip>
And now... back to work.
Thank you, Dan. I'm sure that if the principles you mentioned are taken to heart, it'll go a long way with the community. Tomorrow's patch is definitely a step in the right direction.
I understand the dev team is very passionate about the game, and this thread demonstrates that the players are very much interested in the fun, success, and longevity of the game as well.
All I can do now is hope the apology has cooled enough heads to make the rest of this discussion go with some semblance of civility. After all, the fleet marks were simply a single straw, but clearly it was the one that finally broke the camel's back and has sent a long pent-up torrent of dissatisfaction with the state of this game's QA process, among many other (red, Klingon-shaped) things, spilling into the streets.
We want the same thing you do, after all - we want this game to be long-lived and prosperous. Help us help you help us.
My recommended step one: Turn Tribble into an actual test server for patches and quit using it as the bug preview server for patches.
If the lead time between when a patch moves from Tribble to Holodeck is only going to be 48 hours (or less) then you really have to be willing to listen to the feedback and not be afraid to hold off pushing to live if you get a lot of negative (but constructive) pushback from the players.
You know I have been here since open beta, and I can tell you the amount of extreme nerfs to missions and rewards in game have steadily increased over the years.
Especially after dilithium became a in game currency, the nerfs and limits on so many parts of the game went into effect month after month for a while there.
Not only that the bugs keep piling up as though it means nothing to the devs yet they continue to ignore the outcry from this last terrible nerf.
The irony is I shouldn't care one way or another but I do for all the reasons that I have seen this game slow fall into this terrible restrictive grind.
Seeing as I just joined a fleet finally four days before this patch went out, I was finally trying to get a grip on the tier 3 starbase(fleet)/embasy I was in with two of my characters and how things works.
As I was already drained on doing my omega/romulan rep, I realized that I had just added a far more draining grind on top of what I had been working in my character up to that point.
While the foundry mission to get FM was mention I never even got a chance to even give it a whirl. Never releasing how easy I could of gotten some FM's for my fleet or my characters, but even cryptic can see I never even ran one foundry mission had not in ages because I was already at the point that what I was doing wasn't fun anymore.
I would just log on just to do what felt like a job to keep my characters going from day to day but not to actually have any enjoyment out of it.
Yet even though I never used it personally, I already knew from trying to get get FM on the few times i tried before the valentine day patch that it was a royal pain, and one I was most hesitant to put a lot of time in but as I keep looking I realized just how hard it was to get fleet marks.
But you know after the changes over the years I have to say its clear that the devs be it their choice or the demands higher up in PWE, I can not continue to support nor give time to STO anymore as it stands.
I love star trek, I would hate to see this game die, but you know even if the game dies there will always be another star trek game, be it 10 or 20 years from now.
But you know like a lot things that are wrong in this world today, it would be corporations not listening to the actual customers that keep them in business, sadly they are more worried about short term profits then long term stable flowing profits.
That I feel is a major problem in many industries today most have forgotten to look or care long term, especially in the gaming industry.
Don't worry Star Trek Excailibur is in the works, Think of it was Bridge Commander 2. Being created by modders and my devs of BC
My recommended step one: Turn Tribble into an actual test server for patches and quit using it as the bug preview server for patches.
If the lead time between when a patch moves from Tribble to Holodeck is only going to be 48 hours (or less) then you really have to be willing to listen to the feedback and not be afraid to hold off pushing to live if you get a lot of negative (but constructive) pushback from the players.
You do realize that means that means they'll need better QA, right? :P
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
They are and will remain an extremely successful business in the Eastern market. Remember, they bought Cryptic because it was an opportunity to extend their business into the Western market. Between STO, CO and soon to be Neverwinter, they generate enough revenue to keep that venture going. One need only see how often that someone has unlocked a lockbox ship. You can't unlock one without a key. And no matter how the end-user gets a key, the key originates on the C-store. Which means Zen paid for it. And Zen only enters the game with real money transactions, with the exception of LTS accounts that have existed longer than it would take a subscription fee to equal how much they spent on said LTS.
Supply and demand IS what is driving their profits. They supply lockboxes. People buy keys for them in droves. That shows there is a demand for them. So they supply more.
If I recall correctly, before Season 6, it was said that there was not enough use for Dilithium, as in not enough useful things in the Dilithium Store as opposed to the C-store. Then came Season 6 where advancement trhough the starbase system requires exorbitant amounts of Dilithium. Look what happened to the exchange rate for Zen and Dilithium. So there is a demand for Dilithium. If it gets too great, as in enough to take the Zen cost in RD down to 25, I think we will see them put crates of 10k Unrefined Dilithium Ore on the C-store. They'll leave the daily cap intact ensuring that people will still spend Zen to get more RD than they can refine per day.
They will find ways to milk their profits. Believe me. And there will always be enough people to buy into them to justify their continued use.
I get my keys from the exchange so not a dime by me there and just because some companies are STUPID to be bought my PWE doesn't mean they are in the right. THeir mentaility is mwhy I'm an old Westwood fan
You do realize that means that means they'll need better QA, right? :P
Yes. And that is not a bad thing. Cryptic is in desperate need of improved QA. Right now they push a patch to Tribble on Tuesday, and no matter how borked it is, its pushed to Holodeck on Thursday. If they insist on a 48 hour test-to-live cycle, they have to be willing to either do proper QA or at least listen to the feedback those of us who are willing to test for them provide.
When the playerbase is wondering what the next patch will break that isn't already broken, while clogging up in-game chat with having to tell each other what the current work-around is for what last weeks patch broke, you definitely need to realize you have QA issues.
And if you are going to push everything to live anyway, despite your players doing your QA work for you and telling you what you just broke, you have to seriously ask why they even bother to have Tribble up in the first place.
Let me put it this way: Cryptic is getting beaten up because they push a bad patch on Tribble on Tuesday, and then after people yell at them about how it introduced a new PITA bug or breaks something that wasn't previously broken, they then go ahead and push it to Holodeck on Thursday and get yelled at again for it, all over. If they aren't willing to do proper QA, then they should shut down Tribble. We'll only have to be disappointed by one patch a week and it'll reduce the beatings Cryptic takes from two a week down to just one a week.
An apology is due, and while I've admitted fault in previous posts about this , I'll do so again in this one.
Apology accepted. Now if you are reading this Dan, a couple things we need to go over...
The release that was pushed to Holodeck last week failed in several critical ways. There was a failure on the part of a designer to test their work before it was checked into the game.
This is not the designer's fault. The piece the designer worked on may have worked in her personal development space, but the problem was when it was integrated into the build. That is the function of QA.
Similarly, there was a failure in communication with the QA team on the said check in and on top of that, no one headed the concerns on TRIBBLE.
We need a DIRECT LINE to you, or someone who can abort a patch release. If the Tribble testers find something bad-wrong the patch release needs to be halted.
Unless Dan says otherwise, we should all direct-message him or tweet to him if we discover a game-breaking bug in Tribble.
Ultimately, this is all my responsibility as the lead on the team and I do apologize.
I said it above, apology accepted.
There has been corrective action on our end to address this issue and it is our intention that the build going out to Holodeck tomorrow will resolve problems introduced last week.
This doesn't mean that all bugs on Holodeck are magically gone, it means that we are looking into the processes that cause these bugs and taking action to correct them.
In addition, the removal of Fleet Marks was a heavy handed change. It needed to be done because it was getting out of hand and there was an ever increasing amount of exploitation in the Foundry to maximum Fleet Mark rewards. That said, we should have had the Fleet Mark changes we are making this week ready to go last week so there wouldn't have been a week with the drop in Fleet Mark earning.
Glad to see you realize you need to work on your internal coordination.
Again sorry. It doesn't make us feel any better when we make stupid mistakes.
You can stop apologizing now. In fact if you apologize again I am gonna bill you 7,500 lobi.
Similarly, it is disheartening when several members of the community make harsh comments towards a team that is working many hours of OT to bring new content to STO.
No pain no gain. The only way to get anyone's attention it seems is to throw massive revolts. This is a problem, especially when the internal ticket system is BROKEN and when it does work we never get a useable reply... just canned responses.
Be frustrated with me all you want, but every member of the team is pouring their lives into making this game better. While you may not see that on any given day, when you look back at where this game has come from, every year we make big strides in moving forward. They deserve a lot of credit for that.
While you may not agree with all of our designs and decisions, the proof is in the success the game is having and how much the game continues to grow. While we don't share our internal information, STO is the best performing game for Perfect World Entertainment and is enjoy month after month increases in new captains.
Having just celebrated our 3 year anniversary, there should be no doubt in your mind that we will be here for year 4 and beyond. We have a lot of good stuff in the works for our next May update and you'll see what we've been talking about in a little less than a months time.
I for one detest this secret hush hush routine. I don't know if I speak for the whole community when I say: Let us help you. Involve us in the development process.
So thank you for the constructive feedback. I do apologize on the behalf of the team. We appreciate your continued support and understand if we tarnished ourselves with last week's update. We will learn and move on.
That's it. You owe me 7,500 lobi.
And now... back to work.
Mission accomplished. :cool:
Now, to get some of the other long-standing bugs corrected.
Looks like we are all happy about this change. Hugs for everyone! Free beer and pizza for the crowd!
It's not hugs for everyone and looks like we are all happy!
This should never have happened in the first place. And the patch only addresses a small amount of what is wrong.
New "shinnys" and adding FM into more events, even if the FM is increased, does not take the place of old and stale content.
1) The direction is towards more and more grinding with less time bringing in new content that makes the game fun.
2) The bugs have been adding up over the years and they are still not addressed and fixed.
3) Promises were made and not kept!
4) Player input only seems to get "listened" to when the game is turned into FUBAR and the news of PWE/Cryptic's player base being angry, upset, and feeling betrayed finally get noticed by either someone higher up than the people posting here, or outside the community that causes bad press for PWE/Cryptic.
5) New playable factions seem only a good idea to us when if fact they could be the biggest profit maker in the game for PWE/Cryptic AND bring back the FUN if done right.
6) Last but not least... The trust is gone and must be rebuild between PWE/Cryptic and it's customers.
The apology was the right thing to do, but now actions need to show the words have meaning!
It's not hugs for everyone and looks like we are all happy!
This should never have happened in the first place. And the patch only addresses a small amount of what is wrong.
New "shinnys" and adding FM into more events, even if the FM is increased, does not take the place of old and stale content.
1) The direction is towards more and more grinding with less time bringing in new content that makes the game fun.
2) The bugs have been adding up over the years and they are still not addressed and fixed.
3) Promises were made and not kept!
4) Player input only seems to get "listened" to when the game is turned into FUBAR and the news of PWE/Cryptic's player base being angry, upset, and feeling betrayed finally get noticed by either someone higher up than the people posting here, or outside the community that causes bad press for PWE/Cryptic.
5) New playable factions seem only a good idea to us when if fact they could be the biggest profit maker in the game for PWE/Cryptic if done right.
6) Last but not least... The trust is gone and must be rebuild between PWE/Cryptic and it's customers.
The apology was the right thing to do, but now actions need to show the words have meaning!
Zeus
/facepalm
I guess you missed the part where I said "happy about this change."
Nowhere did I say all is forgiven. Do some of you even read what I am writing or do you just pick and chose words from my posts?
No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
An apology is due, and while I've admitted fault in previous posts about this , I'll do so again in this one.
The release that was pushed to Holodeck last week failed in several critical ways. There was a failure on the part of a designer to test their work before it was checked into the game.
Similarly, there was a failure in communication with the QA team on the said check in and on top of that, no one headed the concerns on TRIBBLE.
Ultimately, this is all my responsibility as the lead on the team and I do apologize.
There has been corrective action on our end to address this issue and it is our intention that the build going out to Holodeck tomorrow will resolve problems introduced last week.
This doesn't mean that all bugs on Holodeck are magically gone, it means that we are looking into the processes that cause these bugs and taking action to correct them.
In addition, the removal of Fleet Marks was a heavy handed change. It needed to be done because it was getting out of hand and there was an ever increasing amount of exploitation in the Foundry to maximum Fleet Mark rewards. That said, we should have had the Fleet Mark changes we are making this week ready to go last week so there wouldn't have been a week with the drop in Fleet Mark earning.
Again sorry. It doesn't make us feel any better when we make stupid mistakes.
Similarly, it is disheartening when several members of the community make harsh comments towards a team that is working many hours of OT to bring new content to STO.
Be frustrated with me all you want, but every member of the team is pouring their lives into making this game better. While you may not see that on any given day, when you look back at where this game has come from, every year we make big strides in moving forward. They deserve a lot of credit for that.
While you may not agree with all of our designs and decisions, the proof is in the success the game is having and how much the game continues to grow. While we don't share our internal information, STO is the best performing game for Perfect World Entertainment and is enjoy month after month increases in new captains.
Having just celebrated our 3 year anniversary, there should be no doubt in your mind that we will be here for year 4 and beyond. We have a lot of good stuff in the works for our next May update and you'll see what we've been talking about in a little less than a months time.
So thank you for the constructive feedback. I do apologize on the behalf of the team. We appreciate your continued support and understand if we tarnished ourselves with last week's update. We will learn and move on.
And now... back to work.
This was basically what I was waiting 260+ pages for. Thank you, Dan, for continuing to engage with us, when you could have just blocked it out completely.
The upcoming patch notes are also promising, re the Fleet Marks, but I shall reserve judgement until I see the changes in game.
That being said, the the Fleet Marks issue was the most recent symptom of a larger problem. That being that the direction the game has been heading for the last few months (increased emphasis on grinding a few precious resources to fill vast quantities needed to unlock new items) appears diametrically opposed to what a good sized chunk of the players want (variety, and being rewarded adequately for playing content they enjoy). Also, the way that community feedback on patches and game changes has seemingly been brushed aside or ignored, to the game's detriment.
I would hope that, as a result of the reaction to this patch, lessons have been learned at Cryptic that will avoid situations like this arising in the future. At the very least, I would hope that more attention is being paid to Tribble feedback, and that in future, no rewards are removed from the game without a replacement ready to go in at the exact same time.
I may not be quite at the stage of being ready to subscribe, but this upcoming patch might get me to actually log in for the first time in a week.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
Yes - everytime we shut down exploitative behavior in the game, the people that were exploiting it get really mad, and the people caught in the middle get annoyed.
We are working on the "people caught in the middle" part. There is nothing we can do about exploiters being mad other than continue to do our best to prevent exploits.
Here's my thing. While I can agree that the easiness of some of the missions were an exploit, I don't see how the timetable for rewards was an exploit when the wrapper reset every half hour? If you allow people to earn something every 30 minutes, how is it an exploit if they earn that thing every 30 minutes? And even then, without a death penalty in any of the fleet mark content, how is doing something easier an exploit? Any Foundry trick I'm aware of that made things easier also made them slower. And the only risk associated with any FM content is time lost.
There's no hard feelings but I DO think there is a heavyhandedness here in terms of designing not just what people are supposed to be doing but why and how they should be doing it. And I think prominent Foundry community members can be equally (unfortunately) as possessive about what the Foundry is for. When I was on the conference call last year, I made a lot of points about this.
If it gets a cutscene tool, people will use it to make movies. Nothing BUT movies.
Some people want to grind. Frankly, I'd rather people grind (and I mean legitimately grind) in the Foundry than have official Cryptic missions built around grinding because I think we've all seen how that leads to criticism of the missions/STFs/Fleet Actions being untrue to the IP.
One of the core problems (and every problem is an opportunity, if addressed) that I see going forward is an overall lack of emergent gameplay or mechanics.
I know you're a fan of the Sims, Dan. So where's the equivalent of putting Sims in the pool and taking out the ladder? I know you played a certain major fantasy MMO. And a big part of that game for some people (the entirety for some) was doing things like getting to the Dancing Troll Village, having foot races, or looking for the Ashbringer. I've sent some colorful bug reports in for STO but none as colorful as I submitted in that other game; by the end of my time there, I was getting idea release forms from GMs. They knew who I was and would prank me. I may have soloed Thrall once. I once used a combination of items that got me stuck in a phase without other players for a full day while still connected. They leveraged not playing as intended for alternate goals. That was how I became a bloodsail admiral there.
Without some of that spirit, you fall into complaints about being a game where everyone just presses "F" and shoots at things. The utilitarian approach is how NGE got its bad rap in Galaxies. At the very least, you need intended unintended ways to play. And they need to be a touch more counterproductive or counterintuitive than killing a Mugato around a corner or completing a mission on a timer... Because everybody I know has tried to do those things every time they played.
The closest I can think of is the hidden weapon in Coliseum.
I have a whole gameplay system cooked up around a concept like this but it's not just about having ONE concept for acceptable unintended play but, I think, really fostering it and doing so for more than just Foundry AUTHORS. I think you get a bad rap for shutting down all unintended play.
Arguably fleet marks hurt people because of the quantity awarded in the Foundry, which made it harder for FA players to contribute to projects because Foundry players had a surplus. PvP exploits definitely have victims.
But I think you also need acceptable outside the box gameplay. That energy will always exist and it needs to be channeled somewhere. Ideally by having what I call "insploits" or rewards for self-hobbling or identifiable forms of encouraged victimless exploit rather than pure achievement and straightforward exploration. It's how you get depth and replay.
I feel like you've gotten warmer in terms of certain gameplay elements (random Tau Dewa missions) but there's a resistance there to having design or gameplay that follows a different flow from the designers' ideal and that resistance comes across in the heavyhandedness of how patches are handled and the "press F" gameplay complaints.
Although I get that the game needs to remain highly accessible, I think that can be done while still being more divergible.
I guess you missed the part where I said "happy about this change."
Nowhere did I say all is forgiven. Do some of you even read what I am writing or do you just pick and chose words from my posts?
I read everything you have posted in this thread.
And no not everyone is "happy about this change". As my last line says, if you looked...
The apology was the right thing to do, but now actions need to prove the words have meaning.
I have been testing on tribble and 48hrs. is not enough time to fully test all of the items in the patch release notes. I am professional Network Engineer and work for a very large nationwide company and there is no way we would let new code or patches into production without fully testing it in our lab and the vendors lab. That short of a "testing" period begs for failure and more trouble which equals customers out of service and the company losing profits as well as getting very bad press!
Tribble is a test server and should be used to test as best as possible all items in a "patch" and let it soak for a period of time to make sure the code does not do the above to your customers.
So if you want to think everyone is happy then that is your right to think that, but the few poeple that have tested on Tribble have already found issues just like before the patch last week and now it's going into production to affect everyone!
Don't get me wrong -- apology accepted but there are other issues that need to be addressed.
My pet project is getting the backgrounds redone for ALL the missions in the plot progression. I understand it's a huge undertaking but it has to be done. The flickering and fracturing is game-breaking.
Second pet project is getting the Romulan HYT and Klingon BNW targeting glitch in the plot progression fixed. Again, I understand it's a bit more than simply changing a couple lines in an .ini file... but it needs to be done. Its a horrible glitch that paints Cryptic's programmers as cartoonishly incompetent.
Above all, It's a question of pride. Apparently Cryptic employees do not take PRIDE in their work. I can make this statement, because I sit here looking at the same glaring game-breaking glitches every time I run a plot mission. I see the same huge game-breaking glitches throughout the Defera Invasion Zone. It shows most tellingly in the Bug Report system... which is down again! On the very rare occasion one gets a reply, it's a canned response days or weeks later... and most often something like "change instances" or "drop and restart the mission."
Going forward, I challenge all of Cryptic's employees to take PRIDE in their work, show us that PRIDE and take the time to solve long-standing bugs and glitches. One a week. That's all I ask.
Do that, and I'll play the game... and pay into the system... for years to come.
Ignore me... ignore US, and year four will be the last year for STO... we the players have revolted three times this season. We can't take much more of this.
Yes - everytime we shut down exploitative behavior in the game, the people that were exploiting it get really mad, and the people caught in the middle get annoyed.
We are working on the "people caught in the middle" part. There is nothing we can do about exploiters being mad other than continue to do our best to prevent exploits.
You have my full support on this one. Exploits need to be taken care of and I'm glad that you react on this type of behavior.
The way I see it the game is better without exploits and I was glad to see the foundry changed to give out fair rewards based on average gameplay time, like I suggested on the forums over a year ago. At the same time, I had no compunction about getting the easy dilithium and energy credits while they were available.
I'm also happy with the foundry changes, I never need to do a other foundry again..
More time to grind, grind , grind. (need dilitium and fleet-marks)
First up Mr Stahl thankyou for the reply and apology, its always hard to do but it goes a long way.
Is there any chance though we could get a response from you on the fact that many people aren't happy with the direction STO is moving in. That they feel like the fun is being sucked from the game in lieu of repetitive grind-style content and if this is something you are aware of and if it will ever change?
The only thing I could see in your post that I could liken as a response to this complaint is that STO is doing well and that because of that you and the team are happy with the direction its going in.
An apology is due, and while I've admitted fault in previous posts about this , I'll do so again in this one.
The release that was pushed to Holodeck last week failed in several critical ways. There was a failure on the part of a designer to test their work before it was checked into the game.
Similarly, there was a failure in communication with the QA team on the said check in and on top of that, no one headed the concerns on TRIBBLE.
Ultimately, this is all my responsibility as the lead on the team and I do apologize.
There has been corrective action on our end to address this issue and it is our intention that the build going out to Holodeck tomorrow will resolve problems introduced last week.
This doesn't mean that all bugs on Holodeck are magically gone, it means that we are looking into the processes that cause these bugs and taking action to correct them.
In addition, the removal of Fleet Marks was a heavy handed change. It needed to be done because it was getting out of hand and there was an ever increasing amount of exploitation in the Foundry to maximum Fleet Mark rewards. That said, we should have had the Fleet Mark changes we are making this week ready to go last week so there wouldn't have been a week with the drop in Fleet Mark earning.
Again sorry. It doesn't make us feel any better when we make stupid mistakes.
Similarly, it is disheartening when several members of the community make harsh comments towards a team that is working many hours of OT to bring new content to STO.
Be frustrated with me all you want, but every member of the team is pouring their lives into making this game better. While you may not see that on any given day, when you look back at where this game has come from, every year we make big strides in moving forward. They deserve a lot of credit for that.
While you may not agree with all of our designs and decisions, the proof is in the success the game is having and how much the game continues to grow. While we don't share our internal information, STO is the best performing game for Perfect World Entertainment and is enjoy month after month increases in new captains.
Having just celebrated our 3 year anniversary, there should be no doubt in your mind that we will be here for year 4 and beyond. We have a lot of good stuff in the works for our next May update and you'll see what we've been talking about in a little less than a months time.
So thank you for the constructive feedback. I do apologize on the behalf of the team. We appreciate your continued support and understand if we tarnished ourselves with last week's update. We will learn and move on.
And now... back to work.
Apology accepted and I don't expect to see all of the bugs fixed at once but as long as they are fixed a piece at a time and you and others listen to us more we can start fixing the bridge between us and you.
But I should also point out I don't trust you right now. Actions speak louder than words. Once I see action on these issues then I'll start to trust. In most of my complaints I've stated ways to fix it. I WANT STO to succeed in the end and with hope things will start to improve but I shall wait and see.
Thanks for the reply it goes some way to repairing the bridges that's been burnt.
The proof if this has made any difference is not today's or the next (Mays) patch but the ones after when all this hoopla (didn't think I'd use that world here) has died down.
Will we see a return to the last patch attitude or a more engaging involved customer orientated approach?
Untill then my gold stays canceled and I won't spend money for zen.
There's light at the end of the tunnel, is it a bright new dawn or a giant angler fish waiting to eat us up?............
Where ever you go, there you are.......
Join The Space Invaders,..... Federation and KDF fleets.
Similarly, it is disheartening when several members of the community make harsh comments towards a team that is working many hours of OT to bring new content to STO.
Be frustrated with me all you want, but every member of the team is pouring their lives into making this game better. While you may not see that on any given day, when you look back at where this game has come from, every year we make big strides in moving forward. They deserve a lot of credit for that.
When the people who pay into the game thereby actually funding your salaries, have concerns, it would be a good idea to actually listen to them.
The harsh comments are the truth, and truth sometimes hurts.
As for the overtime, it's self inflicted. All you have to do is actually READ the comments about changes on Tribble and do something about it before taking it live on Holodeck.
If you try something new, and the customers say it's no good, only a fool would put it on the shelves.
The hundreds of comments about the changes are a factor even the most hard headed Dev should take notice of.
Ignore the players at your peril, I personally have seen at least two games completely disappear because of purely money making changes imposed on a game. The result was the same in both cases, the players took their money elsewhere in their thousands.
First up Mr Stahl thankyou for the reply and apology, its always hard to do but it goes a long way.
Is there any chance though we could get a response from you on the fact that many people aren't happy with the direction STO is moving in. That they feel like the fun is being sucked from the game in lieu of repetitive grind-style content and if this is something you are aware of and if it will ever change?
The only thing I could see in your post that I could liken as a response to this complaint is that STO is doing well and that because of that you and the team are happy with the direction its going in.
Thanks.
First, "many people aren't happy" is a matter of perspective. There are certainly people that aren't happy, but there are also many people that are happy. You simply can't make an MMO that pleases every single person all the time. What you can do, is work to grow the game and make tough decisions about what is good for the game right now.
That could be improving something. It could be adding something new. It could be addressing underlying code. It could be adding a new mission.
It is very easy to lose a greater perspective when you are having to prioritize everything that you do.
For example, which is better - to adjust a portion of the tutorial or make a new mission?
The best decision depends on the desired outcome. If the goal is to grow the game, then it might be surprising to know that re-organizing something in the tutorial has a 10x greater impact on growth than adding a single new mission to the game. Both updates may cost the same in development manpower, but when you are fighting for growth and improving the potential future for the game, the trade-offs aren't always obvious unless you can see what ALL players are doing in the game at any given moment. This is just a hypothetical, but it illustrates that we often have had to make decisions based on what is good right now and what will lead to better results down the road.
A holy grail of live MMO development is to improve growth, retention, and revenue. STO has managed to do all of these things thanks to the tough decisions that were made. Did it make everyone happy? No, but it did improve the game, year over year.
And when the game starts moving in a positive direction, like it has, the net result can be a positive snowball. The more we grow, the bigger the staff, the more we can do, the more we can address, the more we grow... etc... etc... etc...
STO has managed to release updates more frequently than many MMOs on the market. When you look at how much as been added since we launched, and compare it to the resources we had available at the time, it is staggering. We are extremely aggressive at work and people do put in a lot of effort. The team hasn't really had any sort of break since we launched. It has been nonstop fast paced development for years. We are putting out missions, updates, fixes as fast as we can... and some would argue we are even doing it too fast - and thus bugs and missed steps. But it is only out of our desire to deliver.
Sometimes I get the impression that people look at other big MMOs and think, why doesn't STO make big updates like those? Well for one thing - those big updates can take years with 160+ man teams. If we were to wrap everything we've done over the last three years into a big mega update, then perhaps we could say that "Season1-7 all together" would be on par with what another MMO may release as a big boxed update.
But STO didn't have 3 years to do that. We were a 66 metacritic at launch. You don't get 3 years to make a big update. You have to start addressing issues immediately and ensure that every major decision is going to move the needle forward towards survival and growth. Guess what - STO not only survived, but we're now the best performing game at PWE. We might not always be, but we have been smart about what we do.
Again - that might not make you happy, but it has ensured the continued expansion of the game. And now that we're going into our 4th year - we have a lot more firepower, and a lot more support for what we want to do next. This is why we can take a little longer on the May update. Why we can do things bigger than we have previously. We've found a way to make it all work.
This doesn't really solve the problem that every MMO player wants new things to do constantly. Heck - I do. I want something new.
It just takes time. Instead of having to wait a full year for something to happen - we are adding little new things all the time. We'll have two major releases this year alone - and each of those updates will have a bunch of new things to do.
And as far as Season 7 being "grindy" - welcome to the MMORPG genre. While it isn't the perfect solution, it is where we are at now. We want to make it better, but it takes time. We will increase the level cap. We will add more reps. We will add more feature episodes. We will add more adventure zones. We will add more ships. We will add more rewards. We will add more of everything that STO needs.
It just takes time. And right now, you may not see it, but the team is working extra hard. It is one thing to say that Cryptic pays our salary. But it doesn't really pay for all the late nights and weekends all the salaried employees are working right now. Why are we doing it? Because we are excited. Excited about what we are building. Excited about what we might be able to achieve this year.
It might not seem like much to you, but to us it is a big TRIBBLE deal.
So when we get to the year 4 anniversary and we look back at 2013, I certainly hope that we'll be in better shape just like we are every year and that at least the majority of us will be happy with where the game is going.
First, "many people aren't happy" is a matter of perspective. There are certainly people that aren't happy, but there are also many people that are happy. You simply can't make an MMO that pleases every single person all the time. What you can do, is work to grow the game and make tough decisions about what is good for the game right now.
That could be improving something. It could be adding something new. It could be addressing underlying code. It could be adding a new mission.
It is very easy to lose a greater perspective when you are having to prioritize everything that you do.
For example, which is better - to adjust a portion of the tutorial or make a new mission?
The best decision depends on the desired outcome. If the goal is to grow the game, then it might be surprising to know that re-organizing something in the tutorial has a 10x greater impact on growth than adding a single new mission to the game. Both updates may cost the same in development manpower, but when you are fighting for growth and improving the potential future for the game, the trade-offs aren't always obvious unless you can see what ALL players are doing in the game at any given moment. This is just a hypothetical, but it illustrates that we often have had to make decisions based on what is good right now and what will lead to better results down the road.
A holy grail of live MMO development is to improve growth, retention, and revenue. STO has managed to do all of these things thanks to the tough decisions that were made. Did it make everyone happy? No, but it did improve the game, year over year.
And when the game starts moving in a positive direction, like it has, the net result can be a positive snowball. The more we grow, the bigger the staff, the more we can do, the more we can address, the more we grow... etc... etc... etc...
STO has managed to release updates more frequently than many MMOs on the market. When you look at how much as been added since we launched, and compare it to the resources we had available at the time, it is staggering. We are extremely aggressive at work and people do put in a lot of effort. The team hasn't really had any sort of break since we launched. It has been nonstop fast paced development for years. We are putting out missions, updates, fixes as fast as we can... and some would argue we are even doing it too fast - and thus bugs and missed steps. But it is only out of our desire to deliver.
Sometimes I get the impression that people look at other big MMOs and think, why doesn't STO make big updates like those? Well for one thing - those big updates can take years with 160+ man teams. If we were to wrap everything we've done over the last three years into a big mega update, then perhaps we could say that "Season1-7 all together" would be on par with what another MMO may release as a big boxed update.
But STO didn't have 3 years to do that. We were a 66 metacritic at launch. You don't get 3 years to make a big update. You have to start addressing issues immediately and ensure that every major decision is going to move the needle forward towards survival and growth. Guess what - STO not only survived, but we're now the best performing game at PWE. We might not always be, but we have been smart about what we do.
Again - that might not make you happy, but it has ensured the continued expansion of the game. And now that we're going into our 4th year - we have a lot more firepower, and a lot more support for what we want to do next. This is why we can take a little longer on the May update. Why we can do things bigger than we have previously. We've found a way to make it all work.
This doesn't really solve the problem that every MMO player wants new things to do constantly. Heck - I do. I want something new.
It just takes time. Instead of having to wait a full year for something to happen - we are adding little new things all the time. We'll have two major releases this year alone - and each of those updates will have a bunch of new things to do.
And as far as Season 7 being "grindy" - welcome to the MMORPG genre. While it isn't the perfect solution, it is where we are at now. We want to make it better, but it takes time. We will increase the level cap. We will add more reps. We will add more feature episodes. We will add more adventure zones. We will add more ships. We will add more rewards. We will add more of everything that STO needs.
It just takes time. And right now, you may not see it, but the team is working extra hard. It is one thing to say that Cryptic pays our salary. But it doesn't really pay for all the late nights and weekends all the salaried employees are working right now. Why are we doing it? Because we are excited. Excited about what we are building. Excited about what we might be able to achieve this year.
It might not seem like much to you, but to us it is a big TRIBBLE deal.
So when we get to the year 4 anniversary and we look back at 2013, I certainly hope that we'll be in better shape just like we are every year and that at least the majority of us will be happy with where the game is going.
But Dan there is overkill in a grind. Especially when you put in multiple grinds. I never expe4cted there not to be a grind but I didn't think there be an insane amount of it. For me personally I have 4 grinds to deal with; Dilithium, Fleet, Omega, and Romulan. May I suggest you trying playing this game from a F2P small fleet POV for a bit. And you might see what we're talking about in clearer detail.
I point out that a friend of mine predicted the zen price dropping in the exchange before S7 and he was completely right. Just going on fleet requirements alone the three toughspots are DOFFS, Fleet Marks and Dilithium. note I'm saving my dilithium for certain zen ships so don't contribute to the fleet there but everywhere else I do/. Heck I have 5 doff recruitment sitting for i have no room for the doffs and the base projects either don't have doof requirements or there asking for ones I don't have.
Yes - everytime we shut down exploitative behavior in the game, the people that were exploiting it get really mad, and the people caught in the middle get annoyed.
We are working on the "people caught in the middle" part. There is nothing we can do about exploiters being mad other than continue to do our best to prevent exploits.
You mean removing dilithium from STFs was aimed at closing an exploit? Come on, I know your job isn't easy but don't make yourself look stupid, you don't deserve that. I know you're talking about the foundry exploits but the vast majority of players complained about STFs, not clickes.
Nice changes though. You've even pushed it too far to my taste. Fleet progression will be a walk in the park now.
For example, which is better - to adjust a portion of the tutorial or make a new mission?
Why can't you do both?
The tutorial isn't all that great, and that's the FIRST thing any NEW player might see. As you well know, first impressions are the most important. Alot of people may be turned away from playing the game, if they feel that the very first mission in the game is rather "sub-standard".
New missions are ofcourse great, and most certainly needed. Especially 20 or so missions on the KDF side (Levels 1-20).
But if your choices are to pick -either- fixing the tutorial -or- adding a new mission, then you have more serious problems. If it's not a lack of manpower, the problem would be a mis-appropriation of said manpower. I am reasonably certain it doesn't take the full work force (~50 or so people by last count), to adjust the tutorial. Nor does it take the full work force to create a new mission. And if it does, the question is... Why does it?
Of course I can only talk for myself, and maybe some fleetmates.
We are happy to see a "sorry" about all this- but this time it was
too much.
It's the old game: You change something, we rage, you pull back
and apologize.
This time it needs some more action to open our wallets again.
We are mad!
First, "many people aren't happy" is a matter of perspective. There are certainly people that aren't happy, but there are also many people that are happy. You simply can't make an MMO that pleases every single person all the time. What you can do, is work to grow the game and make tough decisions about what is good for the game right now.
You have to start addressing issues immediately and ensure that every major decision is going to move the needle forward towards survival and growth.
And as far as Season 7 being "grindy" - welcome to the MMORPG genre. While it isn't the perfect solution, it is where we are at now. We want to make it better, but it takes time. We will increase the level cap. We will add more reps. We will add more feature episodes. We will add more adventure zones. We will add more ships. We will add more rewards. We will add more of everything that STO needs.
"matter of perspective" ?
260+ pages of complaints is more than "many people aren't happy".
The people you say that are happy are called CDF, "Cryptic Defence Force", and they are biased to say the least.
I want to enjoy this game, but it's frustrating as hell.
Your strategy should be simple.
1 Fix major bugs like sector alerts.
2 Thoroughly test anything you change before introducing it to stop new bugs appearing.
3 Listen to the customer.
While I am not averse to working for what I get in the game, the lack of variation in ways to get it makes me think of playing as more like work than fun.
Until that changes Dan, there will be no more Zen purchased by me.
But Dan there is overkill in a grind. Especially when you put in multiple grinds. I never expe4cted there not to be a grind but I didn't think there be an insane amount of it. For me personally I have 4 grinds to deal with; Dilithium, Fleet, Omega, and Romulan. May I suggest you trying playing this game from a F2P small fleet POV for a bit. And you might see what we're talking about in clearer detail.
Knowledge about the game mechanics also makes the "grind" aspect a lot shorter. The dil cap can be reached in less than 1h. You only need to play one STF a day to fill your rep projetcs. You don't even need to play a single romulan mission to feed rommie rep ones. Doffs can be bought at the starbase, and it's easy in small fleets because you have a lot of extra fleet credits. The only issue was fleetmarks and it's going to be super easy now. A fleet of 10 people playing 2-3h a day will be able to progress almost as quickly as a 500 players one, except on massive upgrade projects.
I consider that this game is already very light on grind, except on fleet stuff. Now that it's adressed, there's no more grind at all actually. Just play the game the way you want to and get rewards.
I'm sure you don't want a game where you log in, grab rewards, log out. This isn't funny if it's not a challenge. But it's also the only step i see to make "grind" easier because it's already extremely achievable.
Sometimes, systems aren't the problem, but the lack of knowledge about systems is.
On a side note, do you read popups in every mission you get in (even stfs, mind trap and so on)? If the answer is not then you know where the issue is, you don't want to know how to play this game because players are babysitted everywhere.
I do feel rather like a jerk not being satisfied by that long, well written, and heartfelt apology, especially when combined with the changes coming out on Tribble. But the thing is, there's still so much more to be done before most of us can really enjoy the game again. Bug fixes would definitely be good, but a big part of the problem is simply that there's so much grinding in the game. That's not to say that I don't expect there to be grind, I mainly just expect that it shouldn't take more than say 45 minutes playing specified content to achieve decent progress through the grind, so that even casual players will have time left over to play any content they enjoy. I'm also very concerned by your statement that you know that many players of the game are happy with its current direction. Very few of the people who have posted here are of that opinion, far more have held the opposite one, so I just don't know where you're getting that, unless you're basing it on the degree to which players play through the stuff you're steering them into, which is as much an indication that they feel they have to as it is that they actually like it. And yes, as has been mentioned many times, QA has a lot of room for improvement, and that really needs to happen. I will close with something a lot of other people have been saying, which is that we want to help make this game better, we want to help you find and fix the bugs, we want to help you gauge the satisfaction and activities of your players, please let us. This game really does have a phenomenal community, let's use that to the advantage of the whole game and all its players.
Comments
Thank you, Dan. I'm sure that if the principles you mentioned are taken to heart, it'll go a long way with the community. Tomorrow's patch is definitely a step in the right direction.
I understand the dev team is very passionate about the game, and this thread demonstrates that the players are very much interested in the fun, success, and longevity of the game as well.
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
We want the same thing you do, after all - we want this game to be long-lived and prosperous. Help us help you help us.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
My recommended step one: Turn Tribble into an actual test server for patches and quit using it as the bug preview server for patches.
If the lead time between when a patch moves from Tribble to Holodeck is only going to be 48 hours (or less) then you really have to be willing to listen to the feedback and not be afraid to hold off pushing to live if you get a lot of negative (but constructive) pushback from the players.
Don't worry Star Trek Excailibur is in the works, Think of it was Bridge Commander 2. Being created by modders and my devs of BC
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I get my keys from the exchange so not a dime by me there and just because some companies are STUPID to be bought my PWE doesn't mean they are in the right. THeir mentaility is mwhy I'm an old Westwood fan
Yes. And that is not a bad thing. Cryptic is in desperate need of improved QA. Right now they push a patch to Tribble on Tuesday, and no matter how borked it is, its pushed to Holodeck on Thursday. If they insist on a 48 hour test-to-live cycle, they have to be willing to either do proper QA or at least listen to the feedback those of us who are willing to test for them provide.
When the playerbase is wondering what the next patch will break that isn't already broken, while clogging up in-game chat with having to tell each other what the current work-around is for what last weeks patch broke, you definitely need to realize you have QA issues.
And if you are going to push everything to live anyway, despite your players doing your QA work for you and telling you what you just broke, you have to seriously ask why they even bother to have Tribble up in the first place.
Let me put it this way: Cryptic is getting beaten up because they push a bad patch on Tribble on Tuesday, and then after people yell at them about how it introduced a new PITA bug or breaks something that wasn't previously broken, they then go ahead and push it to Holodeck on Thursday and get yelled at again for it, all over. If they aren't willing to do proper QA, then they should shut down Tribble. We'll only have to be disappointed by one patch a week and it'll reduce the beatings Cryptic takes from two a week down to just one a week.
Apology accepted. Now if you are reading this Dan, a couple things we need to go over...
This is not the designer's fault. The piece the designer worked on may have worked in her personal development space, but the problem was when it was integrated into the build. That is the function of QA.
We need a DIRECT LINE to you, or someone who can abort a patch release. If the Tribble testers find something bad-wrong the patch release needs to be halted.
Unless Dan says otherwise, we should all direct-message him or tweet to him if we discover a game-breaking bug in Tribble.
I said it above, apology accepted.
Glad to see you realize you need to work on your internal coordination.
You can stop apologizing now. In fact if you apologize again I am gonna bill you 7,500 lobi.
No pain no gain. The only way to get anyone's attention it seems is to throw massive revolts. This is a problem, especially when the internal ticket system is BROKEN and when it does work we never get a useable reply... just canned responses.
I for one detest this secret hush hush routine. I don't know if I speak for the whole community when I say: Let us help you. Involve us in the development process.
That's it. You owe me 7,500 lobi.
Mission accomplished. :cool:
Now, to get some of the other long-standing bugs corrected.
It's not hugs for everyone and looks like we are all happy!
This should never have happened in the first place. And the patch only addresses a small amount of what is wrong.
New "shinnys" and adding FM into more events, even if the FM is increased, does not take the place of old and stale content.
1) The direction is towards more and more grinding with less time bringing in new content that makes the game fun.
2) The bugs have been adding up over the years and they are still not addressed and fixed.
3) Promises were made and not kept!
4) Player input only seems to get "listened" to when the game is turned into FUBAR and the news of PWE/Cryptic's player base being angry, upset, and feeling betrayed finally get noticed by either someone higher up than the people posting here, or outside the community that causes bad press for PWE/Cryptic.
5) New playable factions seem only a good idea to us when if fact they could be the biggest profit maker in the game for PWE/Cryptic AND bring back the FUN if done right.
6) Last but not least... The trust is gone and must be rebuild between PWE/Cryptic and it's customers.
The apology was the right thing to do, but now actions need to show the words have meaning!
Zeus
/facepalm
I guess you missed the part where I said "happy about this change."
Nowhere did I say all is forgiven. Do some of you even read what I am writing or do you just pick and chose words from my posts?
This was basically what I was waiting 260+ pages for. Thank you, Dan, for continuing to engage with us, when you could have just blocked it out completely.
The upcoming patch notes are also promising, re the Fleet Marks, but I shall reserve judgement until I see the changes in game.
That being said, the the Fleet Marks issue was the most recent symptom of a larger problem. That being that the direction the game has been heading for the last few months (increased emphasis on grinding a few precious resources to fill vast quantities needed to unlock new items) appears diametrically opposed to what a good sized chunk of the players want (variety, and being rewarded adequately for playing content they enjoy). Also, the way that community feedback on patches and game changes has seemingly been brushed aside or ignored, to the game's detriment.
I would hope that, as a result of the reaction to this patch, lessons have been learned at Cryptic that will avoid situations like this arising in the future. At the very least, I would hope that more attention is being paid to Tribble feedback, and that in future, no rewards are removed from the game without a replacement ready to go in at the exact same time.
I may not be quite at the stage of being ready to subscribe, but this upcoming patch might get me to actually log in for the first time in a week.
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
Here's my thing. While I can agree that the easiness of some of the missions were an exploit, I don't see how the timetable for rewards was an exploit when the wrapper reset every half hour? If you allow people to earn something every 30 minutes, how is it an exploit if they earn that thing every 30 minutes? And even then, without a death penalty in any of the fleet mark content, how is doing something easier an exploit? Any Foundry trick I'm aware of that made things easier also made them slower. And the only risk associated with any FM content is time lost.
There's no hard feelings but I DO think there is a heavyhandedness here in terms of designing not just what people are supposed to be doing but why and how they should be doing it. And I think prominent Foundry community members can be equally (unfortunately) as possessive about what the Foundry is for. When I was on the conference call last year, I made a lot of points about this.
If it gets a cutscene tool, people will use it to make movies. Nothing BUT movies.
Some people want to grind. Frankly, I'd rather people grind (and I mean legitimately grind) in the Foundry than have official Cryptic missions built around grinding because I think we've all seen how that leads to criticism of the missions/STFs/Fleet Actions being untrue to the IP.
One of the core problems (and every problem is an opportunity, if addressed) that I see going forward is an overall lack of emergent gameplay or mechanics.
I know you're a fan of the Sims, Dan. So where's the equivalent of putting Sims in the pool and taking out the ladder? I know you played a certain major fantasy MMO. And a big part of that game for some people (the entirety for some) was doing things like getting to the Dancing Troll Village, having foot races, or looking for the Ashbringer. I've sent some colorful bug reports in for STO but none as colorful as I submitted in that other game; by the end of my time there, I was getting idea release forms from GMs. They knew who I was and would prank me. I may have soloed Thrall once. I once used a combination of items that got me stuck in a phase without other players for a full day while still connected. They leveraged not playing as intended for alternate goals. That was how I became a bloodsail admiral there.
Without some of that spirit, you fall into complaints about being a game where everyone just presses "F" and shoots at things. The utilitarian approach is how NGE got its bad rap in Galaxies. At the very least, you need intended unintended ways to play. And they need to be a touch more counterproductive or counterintuitive than killing a Mugato around a corner or completing a mission on a timer... Because everybody I know has tried to do those things every time they played.
The closest I can think of is the hidden weapon in Coliseum.
I have a whole gameplay system cooked up around a concept like this but it's not just about having ONE concept for acceptable unintended play but, I think, really fostering it and doing so for more than just Foundry AUTHORS. I think you get a bad rap for shutting down all unintended play.
Arguably fleet marks hurt people because of the quantity awarded in the Foundry, which made it harder for FA players to contribute to projects because Foundry players had a surplus. PvP exploits definitely have victims.
But I think you also need acceptable outside the box gameplay. That energy will always exist and it needs to be channeled somewhere. Ideally by having what I call "insploits" or rewards for self-hobbling or identifiable forms of encouraged victimless exploit rather than pure achievement and straightforward exploration. It's how you get depth and replay.
I feel like you've gotten warmer in terms of certain gameplay elements (random Tau Dewa missions) but there's a resistance there to having design or gameplay that follows a different flow from the designers' ideal and that resistance comes across in the heavyhandedness of how patches are handled and the "press F" gameplay complaints.
Although I get that the game needs to remain highly accessible, I think that can be done while still being more divergible.
Just my late night thoughts anyway.
Thanks for the responses to this.
I read everything you have posted in this thread.
And no not everyone is "happy about this change". As my last line says, if you looked...
The apology was the right thing to do, but now actions need to prove the words have meaning.
I have been testing on tribble and 48hrs. is not enough time to fully test all of the items in the patch release notes. I am professional Network Engineer and work for a very large nationwide company and there is no way we would let new code or patches into production without fully testing it in our lab and the vendors lab. That short of a "testing" period begs for failure and more trouble which equals customers out of service and the company losing profits as well as getting very bad press!
Tribble is a test server and should be used to test as best as possible all items in a "patch" and let it soak for a period of time to make sure the code does not do the above to your customers.
So if you want to think everyone is happy then that is your right to think that, but the few poeple that have tested on Tribble have already found issues just like before the patch last week and now it's going into production to affect everyone!
Does that make me happy? No!
Zeus
My pet project is getting the backgrounds redone for ALL the missions in the plot progression. I understand it's a huge undertaking but it has to be done. The flickering and fracturing is game-breaking.
Second pet project is getting the Romulan HYT and Klingon BNW targeting glitch in the plot progression fixed. Again, I understand it's a bit more than simply changing a couple lines in an .ini file... but it needs to be done. Its a horrible glitch that paints Cryptic's programmers as cartoonishly incompetent.
Above all, It's a question of pride. Apparently Cryptic employees do not take PRIDE in their work. I can make this statement, because I sit here looking at the same glaring game-breaking glitches every time I run a plot mission. I see the same huge game-breaking glitches throughout the Defera Invasion Zone. It shows most tellingly in the Bug Report system... which is down again! On the very rare occasion one gets a reply, it's a canned response days or weeks later... and most often something like "change instances" or "drop and restart the mission."
Going forward, I challenge all of Cryptic's employees to take PRIDE in their work, show us that PRIDE and take the time to solve long-standing bugs and glitches. One a week. That's all I ask.
Do that, and I'll play the game... and pay into the system... for years to come.
Ignore me... ignore US, and year four will be the last year for STO... we the players have revolted three times this season. We can't take much more of this.
You have my full support on this one. Exploits need to be taken care of and I'm glad that you react on this type of behavior.
I'm also happy with the foundry changes, I never need to do a other foundry again..
More time to grind, grind , grind. (need dilitium and fleet-marks)
Is there any chance though we could get a response from you on the fact that many people aren't happy with the direction STO is moving in. That they feel like the fun is being sucked from the game in lieu of repetitive grind-style content and if this is something you are aware of and if it will ever change?
The only thing I could see in your post that I could liken as a response to this complaint is that STO is doing well and that because of that you and the team are happy with the direction its going in.
Thanks.
I agree. Exploits and Exploiters should be dealt with accordingly.
But how was THIS an exploit, when Cryptic basically created it in the first place?
Apology accepted and I don't expect to see all of the bugs fixed at once but as long as they are fixed a piece at a time and you and others listen to us more we can start fixing the bridge between us and you.
The proof if this has made any difference is not today's or the next (Mays) patch but the ones after when all this hoopla (didn't think I'd use that world here) has died down.
Will we see a return to the last patch attitude or a more engaging involved customer orientated approach?
Untill then my gold stays canceled and I won't spend money for zen.
There's light at the end of the tunnel, is it a bright new dawn or a giant angler fish waiting to eat us up?............
Join The Space Invaders,..... Federation and KDF fleets.
Be frustrated with me all you want, but every member of the team is pouring their lives into making this game better. While you may not see that on any given day, when you look back at where this game has come from, every year we make big strides in moving forward. They deserve a lot of credit for that.
When the people who pay into the game thereby actually funding your salaries, have concerns, it would be a good idea to actually listen to them.
The harsh comments are the truth, and truth sometimes hurts.
As for the overtime, it's self inflicted. All you have to do is actually READ the comments about changes on Tribble and do something about it before taking it live on Holodeck.
If you try something new, and the customers say it's no good, only a fool would put it on the shelves.
The hundreds of comments about the changes are a factor even the most hard headed Dev should take notice of.
Ignore the players at your peril, I personally have seen at least two games completely disappear because of purely money making changes imposed on a game. The result was the same in both cases, the players took their money elsewhere in their thousands.
First, "many people aren't happy" is a matter of perspective. There are certainly people that aren't happy, but there are also many people that are happy. You simply can't make an MMO that pleases every single person all the time. What you can do, is work to grow the game and make tough decisions about what is good for the game right now.
That could be improving something. It could be adding something new. It could be addressing underlying code. It could be adding a new mission.
It is very easy to lose a greater perspective when you are having to prioritize everything that you do.
For example, which is better - to adjust a portion of the tutorial or make a new mission?
The best decision depends on the desired outcome. If the goal is to grow the game, then it might be surprising to know that re-organizing something in the tutorial has a 10x greater impact on growth than adding a single new mission to the game. Both updates may cost the same in development manpower, but when you are fighting for growth and improving the potential future for the game, the trade-offs aren't always obvious unless you can see what ALL players are doing in the game at any given moment. This is just a hypothetical, but it illustrates that we often have had to make decisions based on what is good right now and what will lead to better results down the road.
A holy grail of live MMO development is to improve growth, retention, and revenue. STO has managed to do all of these things thanks to the tough decisions that were made. Did it make everyone happy? No, but it did improve the game, year over year.
And when the game starts moving in a positive direction, like it has, the net result can be a positive snowball. The more we grow, the bigger the staff, the more we can do, the more we can address, the more we grow... etc... etc... etc...
STO has managed to release updates more frequently than many MMOs on the market. When you look at how much as been added since we launched, and compare it to the resources we had available at the time, it is staggering. We are extremely aggressive at work and people do put in a lot of effort. The team hasn't really had any sort of break since we launched. It has been nonstop fast paced development for years. We are putting out missions, updates, fixes as fast as we can... and some would argue we are even doing it too fast - and thus bugs and missed steps. But it is only out of our desire to deliver.
Sometimes I get the impression that people look at other big MMOs and think, why doesn't STO make big updates like those? Well for one thing - those big updates can take years with 160+ man teams. If we were to wrap everything we've done over the last three years into a big mega update, then perhaps we could say that "Season1-7 all together" would be on par with what another MMO may release as a big boxed update.
But STO didn't have 3 years to do that. We were a 66 metacritic at launch. You don't get 3 years to make a big update. You have to start addressing issues immediately and ensure that every major decision is going to move the needle forward towards survival and growth. Guess what - STO not only survived, but we're now the best performing game at PWE. We might not always be, but we have been smart about what we do.
Again - that might not make you happy, but it has ensured the continued expansion of the game. And now that we're going into our 4th year - we have a lot more firepower, and a lot more support for what we want to do next. This is why we can take a little longer on the May update. Why we can do things bigger than we have previously. We've found a way to make it all work.
This doesn't really solve the problem that every MMO player wants new things to do constantly. Heck - I do. I want something new.
It just takes time. Instead of having to wait a full year for something to happen - we are adding little new things all the time. We'll have two major releases this year alone - and each of those updates will have a bunch of new things to do.
And as far as Season 7 being "grindy" - welcome to the MMORPG genre. While it isn't the perfect solution, it is where we are at now. We want to make it better, but it takes time. We will increase the level cap. We will add more reps. We will add more feature episodes. We will add more adventure zones. We will add more ships. We will add more rewards. We will add more of everything that STO needs.
It just takes time. And right now, you may not see it, but the team is working extra hard. It is one thing to say that Cryptic pays our salary. But it doesn't really pay for all the late nights and weekends all the salaried employees are working right now. Why are we doing it? Because we are excited. Excited about what we are building. Excited about what we might be able to achieve this year.
It might not seem like much to you, but to us it is a big TRIBBLE deal.
So when we get to the year 4 anniversary and we look back at 2013, I certainly hope that we'll be in better shape just like we are every year and that at least the majority of us will be happy with where the game is going.
But Dan there is overkill in a grind. Especially when you put in multiple grinds. I never expe4cted there not to be a grind but I didn't think there be an insane amount of it. For me personally I have 4 grinds to deal with; Dilithium, Fleet, Omega, and Romulan. May I suggest you trying playing this game from a F2P small fleet POV for a bit. And you might see what we're talking about in clearer detail.
I point out that a friend of mine predicted the zen price dropping in the exchange before S7 and he was completely right. Just going on fleet requirements alone the three toughspots are DOFFS, Fleet Marks and Dilithium. note I'm saving my dilithium for certain zen ships so don't contribute to the fleet there but everywhere else I do/. Heck I have 5 doff recruitment sitting for i have no room for the doffs and the base projects either don't have doof requirements or there asking for ones I don't have.
You mean removing dilithium from STFs was aimed at closing an exploit? Come on, I know your job isn't easy but don't make yourself look stupid, you don't deserve that. I know you're talking about the foundry exploits but the vast majority of players complained about STFs, not clickes.
Nice changes though. You've even pushed it too far to my taste. Fleet progression will be a walk in the park now.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Why can't you do both?
The tutorial isn't all that great, and that's the FIRST thing any NEW player might see. As you well know, first impressions are the most important. Alot of people may be turned away from playing the game, if they feel that the very first mission in the game is rather "sub-standard".
New missions are ofcourse great, and most certainly needed. Especially 20 or so missions on the KDF side (Levels 1-20).
But if your choices are to pick -either- fixing the tutorial -or- adding a new mission, then you have more serious problems. If it's not a lack of manpower, the problem would be a mis-appropriation of said manpower. I am reasonably certain it doesn't take the full work force (~50 or so people by last count), to adjust the tutorial. Nor does it take the full work force to create a new mission. And if it does, the question is... Why does it?
We are happy to see a "sorry" about all this- but this time it was
too much.
It's the old game: You change something, we rage, you pull back
and apologize.
This time it needs some more action to open our wallets again.
We are mad!
"matter of perspective" ?
260+ pages of complaints is more than "many people aren't happy".
The people you say that are happy are called CDF, "Cryptic Defence Force", and they are biased to say the least.
I want to enjoy this game, but it's frustrating as hell.
Your strategy should be simple.
1 Fix major bugs like sector alerts.
2 Thoroughly test anything you change before introducing it to stop new bugs appearing.
3 Listen to the customer.
While I am not averse to working for what I get in the game, the lack of variation in ways to get it makes me think of playing as more like work than fun.
Until that changes Dan, there will be no more Zen purchased by me.
Thank you at least for replying.
Knowledge about the game mechanics also makes the "grind" aspect a lot shorter. The dil cap can be reached in less than 1h. You only need to play one STF a day to fill your rep projetcs. You don't even need to play a single romulan mission to feed rommie rep ones. Doffs can be bought at the starbase, and it's easy in small fleets because you have a lot of extra fleet credits. The only issue was fleetmarks and it's going to be super easy now. A fleet of 10 people playing 2-3h a day will be able to progress almost as quickly as a 500 players one, except on massive upgrade projects.
I consider that this game is already very light on grind, except on fleet stuff. Now that it's adressed, there's no more grind at all actually. Just play the game the way you want to and get rewards.
I'm sure you don't want a game where you log in, grab rewards, log out. This isn't funny if it's not a challenge. But it's also the only step i see to make "grind" easier because it's already extremely achievable.
Sometimes, systems aren't the problem, but the lack of knowledge about systems is.
On a side note, do you read popups in every mission you get in (even stfs, mind trap and so on)? If the answer is not then you know where the issue is, you don't want to know how to play this game because players are babysitted everywhere.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.