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Update on Fleet Marks and Dilithium

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  • seanaldusmagnusseanaldusmagnus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013

    I lol'd pretty hard at that one
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Peace Through Tyranny
  • smscientistsmscientist Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    olivia211 wrote: »
    True. If someone did something to me, saying they were sorry and admitting their mistakes really does make me feel a little better about it all. Just feels as if there is an arrogance about Cryptic. Sometimes in life you meet people like that. No matter how many times they are proven wrong, they simply cannot ever admit they might have been. I know in the last few days there have been concessions and words of apology, but it still feels sometimes like it's too little, too late.

    I hope they can improve their rapport with us.

    I am sorry but I must have missed where there was a visible, unequivocal apology. I scanned the forums with a microscope and found something like "It might not have been the brightest idea but you guys made me do it." It FEELS as if there is arrogance because there IS arrogance. And it IS too little WAY too late. I could log in to find that mythical "boatload" of dil along with the imaginary surplus of fleet marks I am supposed to have in my account according to metrics and find all my ships have been latinum-plated compliments of the STO crew and nothing... NOTHING... but an acknowledgment of error in ignoring the players on Tribble in the FIRST place will make this ok.
  • cmdrscarletcmdrscarlet Member Posts: 5,137 Arc User
    edited February 2013
  • rjewkesrjewkes Member Posts: 237 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    For what it's worth, check out the Tribble patch notes that just went up:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8207291&postcount=1

    This , if this hits Holodeck that is a good start.

    Then major bugs and legacy bugs can be fixed.

    And perhaps more enjoyable content. of course this mayy allready turn off some of the grind.

    Thank You Dan, PWE/Cryptic Devs for a solution.

    A lesson i would learn here is;

    1.) if you have atleast a temporary fix ready when you pull something out, that is percieved as better.

    2.)Be decent with me ad i'll be decent back., Albiet i will try to be as respectful as possable, Trust me i have learned from my ban and my most recent warning.

    3.) Garner our Trust Better, Faster!

    Now may the Great Bird of the Galaxy Cradle you in Peace.

    And Dan,
    Take care of your daughter as i know you will.
    signature2.jpg
    galacticguards.enjin.com/
    Formerly Jewkesman Member from Nov 2009!
  • olivia211olivia211 Member Posts: 675 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I am sorry but I must have missed where there was a visible, unequivocal apology.

    Go back and read my post again. Seems like you only read what you wanted to read.
    No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
  • kyuui13kyuui13 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    gr4v1t4r wrote: »
    We don't need another discussion, we need an open and transparant dialogue between the team at Cryptic and all of those in the community that wish to partake.

    Something tells me, it won't happen, the smart TRIBBLE in me, wants to say, the "metrics" won't allow it. But in all honesty given the track record, I can't see it, they live and breathe reactionary management and metrics. its all they know.

    Just another systematic, failure.
    Next time you log in, ask yourself this.
    dastahl wrote: »
    If you can't have fun, then what is the point?
  • dastahldastahl Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Let's say they do apologize - then what?

    An apology is due, and while I've admitted fault in previous posts about this , I'll do so again in this one.

    The release that was pushed to Holodeck last week failed in several critical ways. There was a failure on the part of a designer to test their work before it was checked into the game.

    Similarly, there was a failure in communication with the QA team on the said check in and on top of that, no one headed the concerns on TRIBBLE.

    Ultimately, this is all my responsibility as the lead on the team and I do apologize.

    There has been corrective action on our end to address this issue and it is our intention that the build going out to Holodeck tomorrow will resolve problems introduced last week.

    This doesn't mean that all bugs on Holodeck are magically gone, it means that we are looking into the processes that cause these bugs and taking action to correct them.

    In addition, the removal of Fleet Marks was a heavy handed change. It needed to be done because it was getting out of hand and there was an ever increasing amount of exploitation in the Foundry to maximum Fleet Mark rewards. That said, we should have had the Fleet Mark changes we are making this week ready to go last week so there wouldn't have been a week with the drop in Fleet Mark earning.

    Again sorry. It doesn't make us feel any better when we make stupid mistakes.

    Similarly, it is disheartening when several members of the community make harsh comments towards a team that is working many hours of OT to bring new content to STO.

    Be frustrated with me all you want, but every member of the team is pouring their lives into making this game better. While you may not see that on any given day, when you look back at where this game has come from, every year we make big strides in moving forward. They deserve a lot of credit for that.

    While you may not agree with all of our designs and decisions, the proof is in the success the game is having and how much the game continues to grow. While we don't share our internal information, STO is the best performing game for Perfect World Entertainment and is enjoy month after month increases in new captains.

    Having just celebrated our 3 year anniversary, there should be no doubt in your mind that we will be here for year 4 and beyond. We have a lot of good stuff in the works for our next May update and you'll see what we've been talking about in a little less than a months time.

    So thank you for the constructive feedback. I do apologize on the behalf of the team. We appreciate your continued support and understand if we tarnished ourselves with last week's update. We will learn and move on.

    And now... back to work.
  • zeus#0893 zeus Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    In the days ahead just remember what Dan posted...

    "If you can't have fun, then what is the point?"

    And I don't see in the release notes any more FUN or anything to address the bugs and broken promises that are 3 years running now!

    So all I can say is this to the the "lip service" we have been given so far...

    "You obviously have a wonderful economy with words. I look forward to your next syllable with great eagerness."

    PWE/Cryptic Where are you? Why are you NOT listening to your Customers?

    PWE/Cryptic Stop the FARM, Bring back the FUN!

    Zeus
  • olivia211olivia211 Member Posts: 675 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    There. He apologized.

    Now we wait for the patch tomorrow so I can get back to earning fleet marks.

    Toodles.
    No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
  • boglejam73boglejam73 Member Posts: 890 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dastahl wrote: »
    An apology is due, and while I've admitted fault in previous posts about this , I'll do so again in this one.

    The release that was pushed to Holodeck last week failed in several critical ways. There was a failure on the part of a designer to test their work before it was checked into the game.

    Similarly, there was a failure in communication with the QA team on the said check in and on top of that, no one headed the concerns on TRIBBLE.

    Ultimately, this is all my responsibility as the lead on the team and I do apologize.

    There has been corrective action on our end to address this issue and it is our intention that the build going out to Holodeck tomorrow will resolve problems introduced last week.

    This doesn't mean that all bugs on Holodeck are magically gone, it means that we are looking into the processes that cause these bugs and taking action to correct them.

    In addition, the removal of Fleet Marks was a heavy handed change. It needed to be done because it was getting out of hand and there was an ever increasing amount of exploitation in the Foundry to maximum Fleet Mark rewards. That said, we should have had the Fleet Mark changes we are making this week ready to go last week so there wouldn't have been a week with the drop in Fleet Mark earning.

    Again sorry. It doesn't make us feel any better when we make stupid mistakes.

    Similarly, it is disheartening when several members of the community make harsh comments towards a team that is working many hours of OT to bring new content to STO.

    Be frustrated with me all you want, but every member of the team is pouring their lives into making this game better. While you may not see that on any given day, when you look back at where this game has come from, every year we make big strides in moving forward. They deserve a lot of credit for that.

    While you may not agree with all of our designs and decisions, the proof is in the success the game is having and how much the game continues to grow. While we don't share our internal information, STO is the best performing game for Perfect World Entertainment and is enjoy month after month increases in new captains.

    Having just celebrated our 3 year anniversary, there should be no doubt in your mind that we will be here for year 4 and beyond. We have a lot of good stuff in the works for our next May update and you'll see what we've been talking about in a little less than a months time.

    So thank you for the constructive feedback. I do apologize on the behalf of the team. We appreciate your continued support and understand if we tarnished ourselves with last week's update. We will learn and move on.

    And now... back to work.

    um...thanks. Paragraph 7 is the real learning point in all of this.

    And thanks for putting back in some more fleet marks.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • olivia211olivia211 Member Posts: 675 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    boglejam73 wrote: »
    And thanks for putting back in some more fleet marks.

    Indeed. I didn't mind Colony Invasion so much because I like ground combat. What made it annoying was the AFKers and the lack of fleet marks earned because of those AFKers. Hopefully this boost will make things better and encourage people to play through it.
    No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
  • dastahldastahl Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    olivia211 wrote: »
    Indeed. I didn't mind Colony Invasion so much because I like ground combat. What made it annoying was the AFKers and the lack of fleet marks earned because of those AFKers. Hopefully this boost will make things better and encourage people to play through it.

    This is just one small step towards combating the AFK issue. We have more changes coming that are designed to aid teams having to deal with this.
  • meurikmeurik Member Posts: 856 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dastahl wrote: »
    An apology is due, and while I've admitted fault in previous posts about this , I'll do so again in this one.

    So thank you for the constructive feedback. I do apologize on the behalf of the team. We appreciate your continued support and understand if we tarnished ourselves with last week's update. We will learn and move on.

    And now... back to work.

    Thanks Mr Stahl. These words were definitely needed to be said. I'm also glad you realize that the Fleet Mark changes should've been checked into the same build that removed the Foundry Fleet Marks. It is inexcusable for the long delay with "relative" silence on the massive feedback that the change has generated.

    Your words of learning, on the other hand doesn't mean much, when you have made similar mistakes in the past, with the same "we will learn" mentality afterwards. Remember the whole Season 7 Dilithium rage?

    If you have a QA department, you need to get them to work ALOT harder on making sure these mistakes don't happen again. And if you don't have a QA department, GET ONE! It doesn't matter much that you continue to increase the size of your team, without getting more personnel working on making sure these sort of things don't happen.

    In closing, i'd like to hope that the "Massive May Update" includes a massive fix list to long-standing bugs, to numerous to go into here. I'm sure you have some database over reported bugs, and as such doesn't need repeating here.
    HvGQ9pH.png
  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,336 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dastahl wrote: »
    An apology is due, and while I've admitted fault in previous posts about this , I'll do so again in this one.

    The release that was pushed to Holodeck last week failed in several critical ways. There was a failure on the part of a designer to test their work before it was checked into the game.

    Similarly, there was a failure in communication with the QA team on the said check in and on top of that, no one headed the concerns on TRIBBLE.

    Ultimately, this is all my responsibility as the lead on the team and I do apologize.

    There has been corrective action on our end to address this issue and it is our intention that the build going out to Holodeck tomorrow will resolve problems introduced last week.

    This doesn't mean that all bugs on Holodeck are magically gone, it means that we are looking into the processes that cause these bugs and taking action to correct them.

    In addition, the removal of Fleet Marks was a heavy handed change. It needed to be done because it was getting out of hand and there was an ever increasing amount of exploitation in the Foundry to maximum Fleet Mark rewards. That said, we should have had the Fleet Mark changes we are making this week ready to go last week so there wouldn't have been a week with the drop in Fleet Mark earning.

    Again sorry. It doesn't make us feel any better when we make stupid mistakes.

    Similarly, it is disheartening when several members of the community make harsh comments towards a team that is working many hours of OT to bring new content to STO.

    Be frustrated with me all you want, but every member of the team is pouring their lives into making this game better. While you may not see that on any given day, when you look back at where this game has come from, every year we make big strides in moving forward. They deserve a lot of credit for that.

    While you may not agree with all of our designs and decisions, the proof is in the success the game is having and how much the game continues to grow. While we don't share our internal information, STO is the best performing game for Perfect World Entertainment and is enjoy month after month increases in new captains.

    Having just celebrated our 3 year anniversary, there should be no doubt in your mind that we will be here for year 4 and beyond. We have a lot of good stuff in the works for our next May update and you'll see what we've been talking about in a little less than a months time.

    So thank you for the constructive feedback. I do apologize on the behalf of the team. We appreciate your continued support and understand if we tarnished ourselves with last week's update. We will learn and move on.

    And now... back to work.

    Dan, thank you for restoring the fleet marks. I'd like to say that I have recently been brought to the side of the people posting in this thread that there are still issues that people would like to be fixed.

    Now, did you guys happen to catch the last line of the second to last paragraph in bold? We have as of tomorrow 1 week left of this month, so it looks likes mid-late March is when we'll be getting the first juicy details of what they've been keeping silent on with May's update!

    TSC_Signature_Gen_4_-_Vegeta_Small.png
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dastahl wrote: »
    This is just one small step towards combating the AFK issue. We have more changes coming that are designed to aid teams having to deal with this.

    Speaking of AFKers, I really like the idea of optional objectives/bosses and secret areas that we see in Colony Invasion and Neverwinter. It encourages participation and teamwork. I hope we see more of that stuff.

    Also, thanks for the apology, the customer support may be terrible, but at least the devs have a lot of heart. I really do like to see the Devs post on the forums and interact with us.:D
  • dastahldastahl Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Speaking of AFKers, I really like the idea of optional objectives/bosses and secret areas that we see in Colony Invasion and Neverwinter. It encourages participation and teamwork. I hope we see more of that stuff.

    /agreed so long as the people earning the optional rewards are those who are involved in the optional objective completion. This is very much in line with some of the concepts we are working on for STFs and Events.
  • trellabortrellabor Member Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dastahl wrote: »
    An apology is due, and while I've admitted fault in previous posts about this , I'll do so again in this one.

    The release that was pushed to Holodeck last week failed in several critical ways. There was a failure on the part of a designer to test their work before it was checked into the game.

    Similarly, there was a failure in communication with the QA team on the said check in and on top of that, no one headed the concerns on TRIBBLE.

    Ultimately, this is all my responsibility as the lead on the team and I do apologize.

    There has been corrective action on our end to address this issue and it is our intention that the build going out to Holodeck tomorrow will resolve problems introduced last week.

    This doesn't mean that all bugs on Holodeck are magically gone, it means that we are looking into the processes that cause these bugs and taking action to correct them.

    In addition, the removal of Fleet Marks was a heavy handed change. It needed to be done because it was getting out of hand and there was an ever increasing amount of exploitation in the Foundry to maximum Fleet Mark rewards. That said, we should have had the Fleet Mark changes we are making this week ready to go last week so there wouldn't have been a week with the drop in Fleet Mark earning.

    Again sorry. It doesn't make us feel any better when we make stupid mistakes.

    Similarly, it is disheartening when several members of the community make harsh comments towards a team that is working many hours of OT to bring new content to STO.

    Be frustrated with me all you want, but every member of the team is pouring their lives into making this game better. While you may not see that on any given day, when you look back at where this game has come from, every year we make big strides in moving forward. They deserve a lot of credit for that.

    While you may not agree with all of our designs and decisions, the proof is in the success the game is having and how much the game continues to grow. While we don't share our internal information, STO is the best performing game for Perfect World Entertainment and is enjoy month after month increases in new captains.

    Having just celebrated our 3 year anniversary, there should be no doubt in your mind that we will be here for year 4 and beyond. We have a lot of good stuff in the works for our next May update and you'll see what we've been talking about in a little less than a months time.

    So thank you for the constructive feedback. I do apologize on the behalf of the team. We appreciate your continued support and understand if we tarnished ourselves with last week's update. We will learn and move on.

    And now... back to work.

    Right on man, that's really big of you and very much appreciated. I'm glad you also were able to see the constructive feedback here where a lot of people who love Star Trek and this game in general came to voice their opinions. It's really great to see you respond to everyone again. Thank you.
    ____
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The o3 - Killed you good
  • idronaidrona Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Who wants a hug?
    signwidrona.png
  • dastahldastahl Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    meurik wrote: »
    ...Your words of learning, on the other hand doesn't mean much, when you have made similar mistakes in the past, with the same "we will learn" mentality afterwards. Remember the whole Season 7 Dilithium rage?...

    Yes - everytime we shut down exploitative behavior in the game, the people that were exploiting it get really mad, and the people caught in the middle get annoyed.

    We are working on the "people caught in the middle" part. There is nothing we can do about exploiters being mad other than continue to do our best to prevent exploits.
  • kyuui13kyuui13 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dastahl wrote: »
    /agreed so long as the people earning the optional rewards are those who are involved in the optional objective completion. This is very much in line with some of the concepts we are working on for STFs and Events.

    while I have no idea what you intend to do about AFK'ers in the matches, I do hope that its got some safety nets. Vote to kick can be exploited, badly. I will await the arrival to comment. I'm just hoping its more of a activity level to gain an award.
    Next time you log in, ask yourself this.
    dastahl wrote: »
    If you can't have fun, then what is the point?
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    idrona wrote: »
    Who wants a hug?

    HUGS FOR EVERYONE! :D
    dastahl wrote: »
    Yes - everytime we shut down exploitative behavior in the game, the people that were exploiting it get really mad, and the people caught in the middle get annoyed.

    We are working on the "people caught in the middle" part. There is nothing we can do about exploiters being mad other than continue to do our best to prevent exploits.

    I just wish there had been a way to fix the exploiters without sacrificing IOR. :(

    Ah well, at least getting dilithium isn't hard anymore.
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Fiiiine hugs, keep your hands where I can see them.:P

    If only turning AFKers into tribbles for 24 hours was possible
    GwaoHAD.png
  • olivia211olivia211 Member Posts: 675 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Looks like we are all happy about this change. Hugs for everyone! Free beer and pizza for the crowd!
    No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
  • thehavrahathehavraha Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I think very little has gone wrong in the past week, and the people freaking out over the Fleet Mark removal (who are not exploiters), are people who don't have an interest in several of the more gaping problems that remain in Star Trek Online, including PVP and Foundry limitations.

    Fleet Marks are minor deals in comparison to these features, and I hope the Cryptic team doesn't get too self-conscious due to the large amount of whining we see here in the forums.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] I am a Cheestah.
    Check out my Foundry missions
    Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
    KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
  • meurikmeurik Member Posts: 856 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dastahl wrote: »
    Yes - everytime we shut down exploitative behavior in the game, the people that were exploiting it get really mad, and the people caught in the middle get annoyed.

    We are working on the "people caught in the middle" part. There is nothing we can do about exploiters being mad other than continue to do our best to prevent exploits.

    You did kinda open the door for "exploitative behavior" in the first place. It's not fair to punish players who use systems that you guys added, despite feedback saying "You know, this might be exploited..."

    And rather than dealing with the exploiters, you issue a "blanket punishment" to all players, regardless of if they use the system normally, or as you say it "exploitively".

    Regarding the Season 7 Dilithium rage, you must've known beforehand the kinda rage it would generate from ALL players, when you led us all to believe that Dilithium would remain in STFs, then suddenly an unannounced, yanked it from the STFs without so much as a heads-up. Naturally, people will end up being pissed off.
    HvGQ9pH.png
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    thehavraha wrote: »
    I think very little has gone wrong in the past week, and the people freaking out over the Fleet Mark removal (who are not exploiters), are people who don't have an interest in several of the more gaping problems that remain in Star Trek Online, including PVP and Foundry limitations.

    Fleet Marks are minor deals in comparison to these features, and I hope the Cryptic team doesn't get too self-conscious due to the large amount of whining we see here in the forums.

    Except that Fleet Marks had an entire season dedicated to them. I wouldn't exactly call that little... but what do I know? :P
  • felderburgfelderburg Member Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    My biggest concern is with the tribble to holodeck conversion. Many people on the forums have accused tribble of just being a glorified publicity server, and there are recorded instances of people posting here about bugs on tribble that then make it to holodeck. That shouldn't happen.
  • ramarblackhandramarblackhand Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    thehavraha wrote: »
    I think very little has gone wrong in the past week, and the people freaking out over the Fleet Mark removal (who are not exploiters), are people who don't have an interest in several of the more gaping problems that remain in Star Trek Online, including PVP and Foundry limitations.

    Fleet Marks are minor deals in comparison to these features, and I hope the Cryptic team doesn't get too self-conscious due to the large amount of whining we see here in the forums.

    I have two reason for this post first one to the person above if you had taken the time to read the forum you would have seen this was more than just about fleet marks being removed it also was about the many bugs that have been in game since beta that have not been fixed or patches that are posted live with out bug being checked for or being ignored so to label everyone in this forum as possible exploiters or whines is in correct and this is all I have to say about this issue.

    Number two I would like to thank Dan for his post on this matter and the action taken to resolve some of the issues presented here. It takes a big man to come on and say they are sorry with everything that has happen. I have kinda of become disheartened at the game I have been play off and on since beta and I can agree over the last year or so the game has went through a lot of changes both good and bad. I hope from here we can take further steps in a more positive direction and as both the devs and the community can come together to work and make this game great I understand it will take awhile to work on the bugs here I believe as long as we are at least seeing progress this is a show of good faith. Again I want to say thank you for coming forward and let us try to move forward together for the betterment of the game as a whole. P.S. One minor issue a little less grind I understand mmo do have grind in them but a little less would be nice just a thought. Thank you for l reading this.
  • ramarblackhandramarblackhand Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    thehavraha wrote: »
    I think very little has gone wrong in the past week, and the people freaking out over the Fleet Mark removal (who are not exploiters), are people who don't have an interest in several of the more gaping problems that remain in Star Trek Online, including PVP and Foundry limitations.

    Fleet Marks are minor deals in comparison to these features, and I hope the Cryptic team doesn't get too self-conscious due to the large amount of whining we see here in the forums.

    Sorry wrong Quote used this is the Quote above I was referring to.:(
  • logicalspocklogicalspock Member Posts: 836 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dastahl wrote: »
    Yes - everytime we shut down exploitative behavior in the game, the people that were exploiting it get really mad, and the people caught in the middle get annoyed.

    We are working on the "people caught in the middle" part. There is nothing we can do about exploiters being mad other than continue to do our best to prevent exploits.

    The way I see it the game is better without exploits and I was glad to see the foundry changed to give out fair rewards based on average gameplay time, like I suggested on the forums over a year ago. At the same time, I had no compunction about getting the easy dilithium and energy credits while they were available.
This discussion has been closed.