Brandon is to Dan what Joachim was to Khan. Brandon can post and show as much sympathy with the players as he dare, but ultimately Dan is single-mindedly marching the toward ruin and doesn't care.
I don't think it's Stahl. I think he is merely a tool being used by PWE.
He has bosses, just like we do. We just can't see or hear them.
They can argue that until they're blue in the face but as of right now, a two-hour pewpew grindfest rewards the same Dilithium as a two-hour Wuthering Heights-in-Space.
I'm stealing this for my new sig (proper credit will be given of course )
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Read 3 posts above yours. I think that says it all.
Ow, make no mistake, don't think now I'm suddenly not upset anymore over the workcamp this game has turned into. But it's nice to see someone make a post, even if it doesn't tell us much or anything at all. At least he cares enough about the community to show his face after +/- 125 pages of negativity, don't see Stahl doing that...So +1 for that.
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
Brandon is to Dan what Joachim was to Khan. Brandon can post and show as much sympathy with the players as he dare, but ultimately Dan is single-mindedly marching the toward ruin and doesn't care.
so if I'm getting this right we're all Kirk? DAAAAANnnnnnnnn!! DANNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!
"I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment... because they'll never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived" Picard to Riker
All I'm saying is that calling for Dan's head might get you a new figurehead EP but the same old Cryptic/PWE.
Telling them why the game's not fun any more and why you're not spending money any more might actually get you a better game (and who knows - possibly a new EP as well).
I think most folks who have been intelligently railing against this whole situation are more than capable of doing both.
Ow, make no mistake, don't think now I'm suddenly not upset anymore over the workcamp this game has turned into. But it's nice to see someone make a post, even if it doesn't tell us much or anything at all. At least he cares enough about the community to show his face after +/- 125 pages of negativity, don't see Stahl doing that...So +1 for that.
Sorry but isn't that his Job?
I don't like to credit people for doing their job. Doing extra, then yep.
As Community manager I would have already "assumed" he was reviewing the posts and passing on the information. We don't really need him posting saying that he is basically doing his job and reporting what we are saying.
I know he doesn't have any power and I know he cannot speak for Cryptic unless they tell him what they want us to know, so nope, Brandon posting was not needed.
Dan posting, well that's what people want (but aint getting).
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
Dan posting, well that's what people want (but aint getting).
I'd take Dan realizing how much of a colossal idiot he's been making of himself with the starbase system and making fundamental changes to it over him posting and telling smaller fleets to effectively **** off, and everyone else to wait three months for anything new.
2009 was a good sci-fi film, but it wasn't Star Trek, the ethos, meaning and modernist progressivism of the TV series and earlier films was replaced with the standard Hollywood formula we see these days... I think the next film will probably make a lot more people realize that.
I actually feel that it would be a good thing, missions like "Easy Money" and "Battleship Royal Rumble" were somewhat of an exploit of the original intention of the Foundry. I am no fan of Cryptic, believe me but I can understand this...
People who abuse a system, should have it taken away... its a common principle in parenting and essentially that is what is going on here. If you want to blame anyone, blame the creators of the missions in question.
The Foundry was designed for people who love Star Trek to share their adventures together and try out new stories and new experiences. Not plough through for Fleet marks. I think the penny finally dropped with me and I understand, I am just willing to be patient while my Collective work at any pace.
I mean, its not life or death that the Starbase is not Tier V next week. Who really cares at the end of the day?
This is a small but friendly fleet btw.
I have gone through much posts of the thread, not all at it is not quite possible any more:D, but this post is by far one of the most reasonable ones if not the most reasonable for me. It should be read with great attention.
I do think that Cryptic could have used another method to stop the exploits of the Foundry and still keep rewarding FMs for proper Foundry content. Why they didn't is beyond me as are many things they do, but that's not the point of the thread.
The point being, the idea of the Foundry was not me getting in a Foundry mission, press F, go have a beer with friends, come back - press F, voila 50 FM. The idea behind it is giving the opportunity to talented people to make quality and immersive content.
All other falls on the back of Cryptic's staff, like creating more content from which to get dilithium or fleet marks or dealing with the AFK & the leechers in current fleet events.
2009 was a good sci-fi film, but it wasn't Star Trek, the ethos, meaning and modernist progressivism of the TV series and earlier films was replaced with the standard Hollywood formula we see these days... I think the next film will probably make a lot more people realize that.
Have you seen Enterprise????
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
I don't like to credit people for doing their job. Doing extra, then yep.
As Community manager I would have already "assumed" he was reviewing the posts and passing on the information. We don't really need him posting saying that he is basically doing his job and reporting what we are saying.
I know he doesn't have any power and I know he cannot speak for Cryptic unless they tell him what they want us to know, so nope, Brandon posting was not needed.
Dan posting, well that's what people want (but aint getting).
I disagree, there's a difference between doing your job, and doing it well. Several people called for someone to post, we all knew the posts where being read since some where editted. Making a comment like he did just now takes him out of the shadows as it where. He didn't have to do that. Showing that you care is never a bad thing. You may not agree with that, but I am comfortable with acknowledging that that is how I feel.
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
Wow, this thread is like duracell, it just keeps going and going and going.... :P
I have gone through much posts of the thread, not all at it is not quite possible any more:D, but this post is by far one of the most reasonable ones if not the most reasonable for me. It should be read with great attention.
Lol the post you quote was both irrational and irrelevant and has been treated as such you are in a very small minority if you thought his post was in anyway reasonable or a reflection on some kind philosophical truth-statement in this matter.
Can any of you "forum gods", provide a quick synopsis for those who don't want to wade though a 100+ pages of posts (even though reading from page one would be better than a R.A.Salvatore novel (JK, love ya Drizzt).
Someone impartial that can portray both sides. You know, the majority that are upset and the 3 or 4 that are happy...
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
Lol the post you quote was both irrational and irrelevant and has been treated as such you are in a very small minority if you thought his post was in anyone reasonable or a reflection on some kind philosophical truth-statement in this matter.
What can I say, everyone has his/hers own opinion about the issue.
2009 was a good sci-fi film, but it wasn't Star Trek, the ethos, meaning and modernist progressivism of the TV series and earlier films was replaced with the standard Hollywood formula we see these days... I think the next film will probably make a lot more people realize that.
Well, this isn't the 1960's. TOS worked well for its time (well relatively, it only lasted 3 season and that was only because of a letter writting campaign).
The only thought that TMP provoked was "god is this movie over yet."
TWoK was an action movie about a mad man bent on revenge (not really different from JJ Trek which can said is a fault for ST09).
STIII: Ok, how do we get out of having killed Spock.
STIV: Ha, don't even get me started.
STV: A Soap Opera (in Roddenberry's own words).
STVI: Ok, TNG kind of messed with continuity so now we have to throw together a rather predictable and yet at the same time implausible plot to get the Klingons and Federation to make peace.
People are faulting JJ Trek for pretty much sticking to the formula.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
I disagree, there's a difference between doing your job, and doing it well. Several people called for someone to post, we all knew the posts where being read since some where editted. Making a comment like he did just now takes him out of the shadows as it where. He didn't have to do that. Showing that you care is never a bad thing. You may not agree with that, but I am comfortable with acknowledging that that is how I feel.
Okay I hear ya, but I don't get where the "he cares" come from. He may do, but it's his Job in the end.
And to be honest, his post was read and then "ignored", because it said nothing really, only that he's doing his job.
Oh and Brandon, I'm not taking my usual snipe at you, I'm just saying that you are doing your job, nothing more, nothing less.
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
I'm receiving many requests for someone to post to this thread --
Thanks for responding. Since you and Dan are both reading the thread, here is my feedback on this.
The number one issue that has me completely unmotivated to even log in on my long holiday weekend is that, from this patch and from the things being considered by the devs, I am left feeling that we are being shunted into one style of play. Even if they add FMs back to the foundry NOW, I am still concerned about the attitude underlying.
People play MMOs for a wide variety of reasons. While there are those players and fleets who are very motivated to achieve top level rewards quickly (and so the large fleet idea works great for them) there are also many players who prefer small and personal fleets. Some may be role-players and their fleet structure ties in with their storylines. Some may prefer to avoid the potential for fleet drama by joining only with those they know in real life. Shocking, I know, but I am sure there are also lone wolves playing who don't care to really interact with other players at all, but play an MMO because it is ever-evolving (Oh look! new lands to explore, new species to interact with, new clothes to wear, new ships to fly!) unlike desktop games. For these small groups of people who might be willing to be in for the long haul on the base and embassy if they can do it with their small fleets intact, the long haul just became prohibitively long.
But far more worrying than that are statements made that Cryptic is aware small fleets are at a disadvantage and responds by crippling all growth without offering a viable fleet mark alternative. A potential solution offered? Merging small fleets. In essence, all small fleets will be killed or squished into becoming another giant fleet. Another solution? Adding fleet marks to team only events. Small fleets have a harder time gathering a gang together than large fleets do and some people do not like to team but still care about supporting their fleet. Why is that a bad thing? Neither of these solutions are satisfactory. I just recently joined a tiny 20 member fleet on KDF side and was excited about helping to bring up the base, even if it took a couple of years. That is over now.
I like that there are small roleplaying fleets. I like that there are small fleets just representing all of the people on some Star Trek podcast. Why is this suddenly not the proper way to play the game? The game loses something when small communities are squashed.
I love Star Trek and I love this game. I want it to succeed. On the whole I think you guys have done a great job. I bought Zen for which I had no immediate need just to say "thanks" for a very enjoyable Winter event. Now, however, I am concerned that we are being led too strongly down a particular path and that this game will suffer for it. There should be no "right way" to have fun with the game. Increasing the grind even more is not going to force everyone in the direction of large fleets. Some will be forced out the door. I am concerned enough to cease investing (and playing).
jjabrams is aman who delivers product. He doesn't put heart and soul in it. (which is reallywhy hollywood loves him -- faux geek cred and an ability to deliver) he's not really a genre director. he prefers generic drama like "Felicity" (which he created, btw)
I actually really liked felicity 8) Cant say the same for his trek movie...
You also have my commitment that I will continue reading every single post made in this thread (and I have been since it was created). I am passing along your feedback from this thread directly to the decision makers, but I have no involvement in the decision making
I think we all appreciate that, Brandon. Especially with the speed at which this thread is moving, keeping up most be taking up most of your time lol...
Although at this point there is very little left to add. Lots of good suggestions, lots of valid complaints and concerns, and I'm sure we'll see no actual dev reponse til Monday at the earliest. But the whole process of this change has been very poorly handled, and the longer it festers the worse off the game will be. Perhaps you could stress that time is of the essence here...
Non mega-fleets get no help for higher tier projects, and Cryptic "might" add fleet marks to other things "eventually"?
Not encouraging.
to all small fleets if you are struggling with the super large projects it is ok to merge with large fleetbut if choose not to there needs to be a scailing system for size of fleet
and there also needs be a way for fleets to merge with out losing anything
I think all of you guys need to seriously cool off and focus your anger elsewhere.
As Brandon has been mentioning, all the feedback you guys are spitting out is being passed along to Dan. I doubt that they're going to return the fleet marks to the foundry, since it was never meant to be a permanent addition. Blaming the Foundry Authors (which now includes me, as I have one mission in the foundry that isn't even that long) isn't going to help. In a time that we have no story content, we need to take what we can get.
And for all of you guys that are angry about the game turning into a grindfest: get over it. I for one like the content that has been put out by cryptic over the last year. I don't simply stay on fleet action for long. I tend to jump around to different places, so I don't get bored. I have played two other MMOs in my lifetime and both were ones that required grind. One was a Korean MMO that required you literally to grind exp over and over by fighting endless mobs of enemies, while the other was D&D online, which was a straight grind for leveling as well.
The one thing that keeps me in the game is the fact that what I'm grinding up to is actually fun in the end. I'm taking my time with things. As a silver player, I will continue to play how I want. If you guys are unhappy with this game, go find an MMO that provides the same kinds of stuff that STO does. I'll just be keeping myself busy, unlocking stuff that I can use in the game.
Disclaimer: I have tried to keep my humour throughout this too, too, long post and hope that that comes across, but this is an issue that is making it difficult to retain that humour, so sorry if I offend anyone but, c'est la vie...
Wow, I have finally read this entire thread, or at least as far as #1276 When I started this, It'll probably be longer before I finish this little missive...
So what can I add to this "free exchange of thoughts and ideas"?
Well to be honest not much beyond my own perspective as a player and, occasionally, paying customer.
I've been playing since the middle of Oct 2012, don't ask me the stardate I'm a trekker not a trekkie lol.
Going from Ensign to Captain was cool, really felt like a STAR TREK experience. Then as I joined a fleet and started taking a closer look at the mechanics of achievements and rewards in this game, I came to a realisation that there would come a choice between grinding, content and RL ca$h. Ok, no problem, I've played a number of MMOs b4, there's usually a way of balancing these elements and still getting the F factor from the game.
F=FUN for those that forget...
Now I found this balance in S6, I could do the story lines, do my daily "free" one click and then go on to enjoy a longer more story based foundry mission, thank you kirkfat, hippiejohn and others, some nice work. I read the forums occasionally, really more interested in how I could build my Character and ships in order to ENJOY the STAR TREK experience and to make the "manageable" GRIND more FUN than anything else.
Then S7 hit, suddenly cost in dil had gone up, or on things that made the daily refine limit seem too small, the time needed to GRIND went up, the devs told us that they where adding ways of earning more dil to the game and yet... IOR one click was gone!!!... Gasp, shudder, WTF(lip). OK calm down, it's only a slight change, there are still enough ways of earning dil, most of which have been gone into here ad-nausea.
The protests about those changes brought about the state of affairs where they introduced a new avenue of opportunity for those that wanted to farm dil/FM/ec. It meant that we could earn enough dil/FM/ec in time to leave us able to play longer missions, heck even contribute some to our fleets. All was cool in the pool, less GRIND more fun, and I'll say this now I really miss having more fun than GRIND...
BUT...?
Really...?
20min missions with a half hour cool-down??? This was like being 5 years old and finding yourself locked in a chocolate factory, yum, yum, yum... No one told me I wasn't supposed to gorge myself...
I understand that this was a "temporary" measure and would be REPLACED with a different system of acquiring dil/FM/ec, as you(Devs/PWE/whoever) had listened to the concerns of your player/customer base and were working on a more equable play/reward system. OK I'm cool with this, it's temp, enjoy it but expect changes... NP I could live with this compromise and was interested in seeing what would develop.
But this, this, this complete lack of consideration of your players I just don't get. What we had was not breaking the game or the foundry or the Zen market, in fact it was stimulating all of these. It wasn't following the intentions of the foundry, we knew this, you knew this, we knew that you knew this and, funnily enough you knew that we knew this and we all knew that it would change (lol).
So rather than replacing the current flaw/exploit/development you just take it away, no notice, pif paff poof gone... And you "replace" it with what? Well Who knows the foundry is of line... So with the lack of anything you leave us in limbo.
So can't we just be civilized enough to agree that this is a VERY BIG issue. Both for the players side, the foundry authors, who I hope have equal rights with the rest of their fellow STOers, and for Cryptic/PWE/CBS(who I hope watch how their IP is being used/administrated).
Assuming we can agree that a majority of players play this game for the Trek experience or the pew, pew or the rp, or the chance to express their self or whatever, we're all here to play... Now work and play are generally considered to be two separate areas of our daily lives. So why would anyone want to play a game which is becoming more and more like a job? Because we do... I don't know why, but I see more and more games becoming grindfests and people keep playing... I do it and I'm sure many others do, but most games that are grindfests don't change the rules, move the goalposts and bribe the referee at the same time. If they have upcoming changes to the economic mechanics of the game they announce it in advance, they respond to forums and e-mails. They don't just remove one feature that changes the games reward system without some kind of communications.
When I saw the OP I thought, wow, nice DS is going to show us he's willing to bring us the players in and share some constructive dialogue, but damn I'm disappointed.
Been home from work 4 hrs now, played 1hr of that.
I guess I'm frustrated at the mushroom feeling, TALK TO US DEVS...
LET US VENT OUR FEELINGS, but most of all try to put yourselves in the player/investors position.
Those that blame foundry authors for this are very much off the mark, they fill out this game adding content that is lacking in the commercial product. It's a shame that PWE/Cryptic/whoever have done this, but it is not to please a few elitist authors.
Ok enough typing, sorry, but my whole weekend was put aside for STO for the first time in months and I'm a little peeved...;)
I'm receiving many requests for someone to post to this thread -- as I've said elsewhere, there have been no further posts from dStahl or anyone else because there are no further updates to provide at this time. Daniel created the thread to let you know some of the "why" behind the change, and even made a few comments after that elaborating more, along with letting you know some of our plans.
If there are more updates that I can pass along, I will most certainly do so -- you have my commitment to that. You also have my commitment that I will continue reading every single post made in this thread (and I have been since it was created). I am passing along your feedback from this thread directly to the decision makers, but I have no involvement in the decision making.
Also, a few of you have made comments about moderation taken in this thread. Posts that break our forum rules will be moderated, as well as the users who posted them. I suggest everyone takes a look at our forum rules here and keep them in mind. This is a friendly warning as I would hate to see anyone banned for breaking them. It's okay to be upset, it's okay to post how much you hate the change, it's okay to feel the way you do, but it's not okay to break our forum rules. As you can tell from the many constructive, yet highly negative posts in this thread, the only posts that have been and will be moderated are those that don't follow our rules. Lastly, discussing moderation taken on the forums is against the forum rules as well. If you have a question about any moderation actions taken by the mods or myself, please reach out to me via the instructions in my forum signature.
I think all of you guys need to seriously cool off and focus your anger elsewhere.
As Brandon has been mentioning, all the feedback you guys are spitting out is being passed along to Dan. I doubt that they're going to return the fleet marks to the foundry, since it was never meant to be a permanent addition. Blaming the Foundry Authors (which now includes me, as I have one mission in the foundry that isn't even that long) isn't going to help. In a time that we have no story content, we need to take what we can get.
And for all of you guys that are angry about the game turning into a grindfest: get over it. I for one like the content that has been put out by cryptic over the last year. I don't simply stay on fleet action for long. I tend to jump around to different places, so I don't get bored. I have played two other MMOs in my lifetime and both were ones that required grind. One was a Korean MMO that required you literally to grind exp over and over by fighting endless mobs of enemies, while the other was D&D online, which was a straight grind for leveling as well.
The one thing that keeps me in the game is the fact that what I'm grinding up to is actually fun in the end. I'm taking my time with things. As a silver player, I will continue to play how I want. If you guys are unhappy with this game, go find an MMO that provides the same kinds of stuff that STO does. I'll just be keeping myself busy, unlocking stuff that I can use in the game.
See, that's your problem.
Huzzahh, you like the way the game is and what they are doing, so does that mean those who have a different opinion should just shut up and leave?
Why not just go and play the game and leave those unhappy with it, to vent their frustration and anger on these forums?
Now all you have done is create more posts about your post, causing more frustration and more anger to be direct at you and your post.
/Sigh...
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
Comments
I don't think it's Stahl. I think he is merely a tool being used by PWE.
He has bosses, just like we do. We just can't see or hear them.
Sadly yes
I'm stealing this for my new sig (proper credit will be given of course
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Ow, make no mistake, don't think now I'm suddenly not upset anymore over the workcamp this game has turned into. But it's nice to see someone make a post, even if it doesn't tell us much or anything at all. At least he cares enough about the community to show his face after +/- 125 pages of negativity, don't see Stahl doing that...So +1 for that.
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Lol! It's all yours
Well as we all seen through these trheads this is about these two points :
- Enough grind. Enough is enough.
- Set Fun back online.
As i'm sure these are the two main points you are feedbacking to development team and Dear D. Stahl.
Thanks again.
so if I'm getting this right we're all Kirk? DAAAAANnnnnnnnn!! DANNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!
"I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment... because they'll never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived" Picard to Riker
I think most folks who have been intelligently railing against this whole situation are more than capable of doing both.
You mean a video blog ?
Text blogs are so Early-2000-My Space thingys .
I can see the top of the front page now :
DOWN THE TOILET AT WARP 9 !
:P
Sorry but isn't that his Job?
I don't like to credit people for doing their job. Doing extra, then yep.
As Community manager I would have already "assumed" he was reviewing the posts and passing on the information. We don't really need him posting saying that he is basically doing his job and reporting what we are saying.
I know he doesn't have any power and I know he cannot speak for Cryptic unless they tell him what they want us to know, so nope, Brandon posting was not needed.
Dan posting, well that's what people want (but aint getting).
I'd take Dan realizing how much of a colossal idiot he's been making of himself with the starbase system and making fundamental changes to it over him posting and telling smaller fleets to effectively **** off, and everyone else to wait three months for anything new.
But that's just me...
2009 was a good sci-fi film, but it wasn't Star Trek, the ethos, meaning and modernist progressivism of the TV series and earlier films was replaced with the standard Hollywood formula we see these days... I think the next film will probably make a lot more people realize that.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
I have gone through much posts of the thread, not all at it is not quite possible any more:D, but this post is by far one of the most reasonable ones if not the most reasonable for me. It should be read with great attention.
I do think that Cryptic could have used another method to stop the exploits of the Foundry and still keep rewarding FMs for proper Foundry content. Why they didn't is beyond me as are many things they do, but that's not the point of the thread.
The point being, the idea of the Foundry was not me getting in a Foundry mission, press F, go have a beer with friends, come back - press F, voila 50 FM. The idea behind it is giving the opportunity to talented people to make quality and immersive content.
All other falls on the back of Cryptic's staff, like creating more content from which to get dilithium or fleet marks or dealing with the AFK & the leechers in current fleet events.
Have you seen Enterprise????
I disagree, there's a difference between doing your job, and doing it well. Several people called for someone to post, we all knew the posts where being read since some where editted. Making a comment like he did just now takes him out of the shadows as it where. He didn't have to do that. Showing that you care is never a bad thing. You may not agree with that, but I am comfortable with acknowledging that that is how I feel.
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Lol the post you quote was both irrational and irrelevant and has been treated as such you are in a very small minority if you thought his post was in anyway reasonable or a reflection on some kind philosophical truth-statement in this matter.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Actually Series 1 & 2 of Enterprise stuck to that... bar the horrible post 9-11 Intro Theme. Even 3 & 4 weren't that Manichean in the end.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Can any of you "forum gods", provide a quick synopsis for those who don't want to wade though a 100+ pages of posts (even though reading from page one would be better than a R.A.Salvatore novel (JK, love ya Drizzt).
Someone impartial that can portray both sides. You know, the majority that are upset and the 3 or 4 that are happy...
What can I say, everyone has his/hers own opinion about the issue.
I'm surprised anyone still remembers what Wuthering Heights was..XD
Unless there's been a remake I missed...
Well, this isn't the 1960's. TOS worked well for its time (well relatively, it only lasted 3 season and that was only because of a letter writting campaign).
The only thought that TMP provoked was "god is this movie over yet."
TWoK was an action movie about a mad man bent on revenge (not really different from JJ Trek which can said is a fault for ST09).
STIII: Ok, how do we get out of having killed Spock.
STIV: Ha, don't even get me started.
STV: A Soap Opera (in Roddenberry's own words).
STVI: Ok, TNG kind of messed with continuity so now we have to throw together a rather predictable and yet at the same time implausible plot to get the Klingons and Federation to make peace.
People are faulting JJ Trek for pretty much sticking to the formula.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Okay I hear ya, but I don't get where the "he cares" come from. He may do, but it's his Job in the end.
And to be honest, his post was read and then "ignored", because it said nothing really, only that he's doing his job.
Oh and Brandon, I'm not taking my usual snipe at you, I'm just saying that you are doing your job, nothing more, nothing less.
Thanks for responding. Since you and Dan are both reading the thread, here is my feedback on this.
The number one issue that has me completely unmotivated to even log in on my long holiday weekend is that, from this patch and from the things being considered by the devs, I am left feeling that we are being shunted into one style of play. Even if they add FMs back to the foundry NOW, I am still concerned about the attitude underlying.
People play MMOs for a wide variety of reasons. While there are those players and fleets who are very motivated to achieve top level rewards quickly (and so the large fleet idea works great for them) there are also many players who prefer small and personal fleets. Some may be role-players and their fleet structure ties in with their storylines. Some may prefer to avoid the potential for fleet drama by joining only with those they know in real life. Shocking, I know, but I am sure there are also lone wolves playing who don't care to really interact with other players at all, but play an MMO because it is ever-evolving (Oh look! new lands to explore, new species to interact with, new clothes to wear, new ships to fly!) unlike desktop games. For these small groups of people who might be willing to be in for the long haul on the base and embassy if they can do it with their small fleets intact, the long haul just became prohibitively long.
But far more worrying than that are statements made that Cryptic is aware small fleets are at a disadvantage and responds by crippling all growth without offering a viable fleet mark alternative. A potential solution offered? Merging small fleets. In essence, all small fleets will be killed or squished into becoming another giant fleet. Another solution? Adding fleet marks to team only events. Small fleets have a harder time gathering a gang together than large fleets do and some people do not like to team but still care about supporting their fleet. Why is that a bad thing? Neither of these solutions are satisfactory. I just recently joined a tiny 20 member fleet on KDF side and was excited about helping to bring up the base, even if it took a couple of years. That is over now.
I like that there are small roleplaying fleets. I like that there are small fleets just representing all of the people on some Star Trek podcast. Why is this suddenly not the proper way to play the game? The game loses something when small communities are squashed.
I love Star Trek and I love this game. I want it to succeed. On the whole I think you guys have done a great job. I bought Zen for which I had no immediate need just to say "thanks" for a very enjoyable Winter event. Now, however, I am concerned that we are being led too strongly down a particular path and that this game will suffer for it. There should be no "right way" to have fun with the game. Increasing the grind even more is not going to force everyone in the direction of large fleets. Some will be forced out the door. I am concerned enough to cease investing (and playing).
I actually really liked felicity 8) Cant say the same for his trek movie...
I think we all appreciate that, Brandon. Especially with the speed at which this thread is moving, keeping up most be taking up most of your time lol...
Although at this point there is very little left to add. Lots of good suggestions, lots of valid complaints and concerns, and I'm sure we'll see no actual dev reponse til Monday at the earliest. But the whole process of this change has been very poorly handled, and the longer it festers the worse off the game will be. Perhaps you could stress that time is of the essence here...
Don't wanna hit 200 pages by tomorrow...
The doors, Mister Scott!
to all small fleets if you are struggling with the super large projects it is ok to merge with large fleetbut if choose not to there needs to be a scailing system for size of fleet
and there also needs be a way for fleets to merge with out losing anything
As Brandon has been mentioning, all the feedback you guys are spitting out is being passed along to Dan. I doubt that they're going to return the fleet marks to the foundry, since it was never meant to be a permanent addition. Blaming the Foundry Authors (which now includes me, as I have one mission in the foundry that isn't even that long) isn't going to help. In a time that we have no story content, we need to take what we can get.
And for all of you guys that are angry about the game turning into a grindfest: get over it. I for one like the content that has been put out by cryptic over the last year. I don't simply stay on fleet action for long. I tend to jump around to different places, so I don't get bored. I have played two other MMOs in my lifetime and both were ones that required grind. One was a Korean MMO that required you literally to grind exp over and over by fighting endless mobs of enemies, while the other was D&D online, which was a straight grind for leveling as well.
The one thing that keeps me in the game is the fact that what I'm grinding up to is actually fun in the end. I'm taking my time with things. As a silver player, I will continue to play how I want. If you guys are unhappy with this game, go find an MMO that provides the same kinds of stuff that STO does. I'll just be keeping myself busy, unlocking stuff that I can use in the game.
Wow, I have finally read this entire thread, or at least as far as #1276 When I started this, It'll probably be longer before I finish this little missive...
So what can I add to this "free exchange of thoughts and ideas"?
Well to be honest not much beyond my own perspective as a player and, occasionally, paying customer.
I've been playing since the middle of Oct 2012, don't ask me the stardate I'm a trekker not a trekkie lol.
Going from Ensign to Captain was cool, really felt like a STAR TREK experience. Then as I joined a fleet and started taking a closer look at the mechanics of achievements and rewards in this game, I came to a realisation that there would come a choice between grinding, content and RL ca$h. Ok, no problem, I've played a number of MMOs b4, there's usually a way of balancing these elements and still getting the F factor from the game.
F=FUN for those that forget...
Now I found this balance in S6, I could do the story lines, do my daily "free" one click and then go on to enjoy a longer more story based foundry mission, thank you kirkfat, hippiejohn and others, some nice work. I read the forums occasionally, really more interested in how I could build my Character and ships in order to ENJOY the STAR TREK experience and to make the "manageable" GRIND more FUN than anything else.
Then S7 hit, suddenly cost in dil had gone up, or on things that made the daily refine limit seem too small, the time needed to GRIND went up, the devs told us that they where adding ways of earning more dil to the game and yet... IOR one click was gone!!!... Gasp, shudder, WTF(lip). OK calm down, it's only a slight change, there are still enough ways of earning dil, most of which have been gone into here ad-nausea.
The protests about those changes brought about the state of affairs where they introduced a new avenue of opportunity for those that wanted to farm dil/FM/ec. It meant that we could earn enough dil/FM/ec in time to leave us able to play longer missions, heck even contribute some to our fleets. All was cool in the pool, less GRIND more fun, and I'll say this now I really miss having more fun than GRIND...
BUT...?
Really...?
20min missions with a half hour cool-down???
I understand that this was a "temporary" measure and would be REPLACED with a different system of acquiring dil/FM/ec, as you(Devs/PWE/whoever) had listened to the concerns of your player/customer base and were working on a more equable play/reward system. OK I'm cool with this, it's temp, enjoy it but expect changes... NP I could live with this compromise and was interested in seeing what would develop.
But this, this, this complete lack of consideration of your players I just don't get. What we had was not breaking the game or the foundry or the Zen market, in fact it was stimulating all of these. It wasn't following the intentions of the foundry, we knew this, you knew this, we knew that you knew this and, funnily enough you knew that we knew this and we all knew that it would change (lol).
So rather than replacing the current flaw/exploit/development you just take it away, no notice, pif paff poof gone... And you "replace" it with what? Well Who knows the foundry is of line... So with the lack of anything you leave us in limbo.
So can't we just be civilized enough to agree that this is a VERY BIG issue. Both for the players side, the foundry authors, who I hope have equal rights with the rest of their fellow STOers, and for Cryptic/PWE/CBS(who I hope watch how their IP is being used/administrated).
Assuming we can agree that a majority of players play this game for the Trek experience or the pew, pew or the rp, or the chance to express their self or whatever, we're all here to play... Now work and play are generally considered to be two separate areas of our daily lives. So why would anyone want to play a game which is becoming more and more like a job? Because we do... I don't know why, but I see more and more games becoming grindfests and people keep playing... I do it and I'm sure many others do, but most games that are grindfests don't change the rules, move the goalposts and bribe the referee at the same time. If they have upcoming changes to the economic mechanics of the game they announce it in advance, they respond to forums and e-mails. They don't just remove one feature that changes the games reward system without some kind of communications.
When I saw the OP I thought, wow, nice DS is going to show us he's willing to bring us the players in and share some constructive dialogue, but damn I'm disappointed.
Been home from work 4 hrs now, played 1hr of that.
I guess I'm frustrated at the mushroom feeling, TALK TO US DEVS...
LET US VENT OUR FEELINGS, but most of all try to put yourselves in the player/investors position.
Those that blame foundry authors for this are very much off the mark, they fill out this game adding content that is lacking in the commercial product. It's a shame that PWE/Cryptic/whoever have done this, but it is not to please a few elitist authors.
Ok enough typing, sorry, but my whole weekend was put aside for STO for the first time in months and I'm a little peeved...;)
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See, that's your problem.
Huzzahh, you like the way the game is and what they are doing, so does that mean those who have a different opinion should just shut up and leave?
Why not just go and play the game and leave those unhappy with it, to vent their frustration and anger on these forums?
Now all you have done is create more posts about your post, causing more frustration and more anger to be direct at you and your post.
/Sigh...