IMO, I don't think it was 100% the few Foundry authors alone that did the former Foundry 'system' in, but they probably did a whole lot of poking and prodding and linking of lots of documents and paragraphs about certain other Foundry authors missions and how it didn't 'technically' fall within certain criteria. I think they did this because their material was not getting as much attention as 'they felt' it should. To the extreme that it was pursued, I find it egregious on part of those few Foundry authors who decided to inject their 'opinion' of what people should be playing in the Foundry and what content should come out of it. Again, IMO - you have no right either as individuals or as a collective group to inject your personal beliefs or opinions on how your peers choose to play the game or any inherent part of it. Pointing out a flaw in the system is one thing, bolstering a crusade over it is another. Part of the blame can be attributed here.
Cryptic, whether at the behest of above Foundry authors or not, handled the entire situation poorly and deserves blame as well. They were not open about the time frame they had planned for the IOR being in place with the rewards it had, and just kind of threw it out there without much ado at all. Then they yank it away without any real justification or notification, and in fact pointing out data that would suggest taking this reward out without balancing it somewhere else would HURT the game and the player base using 'metrics' that Dan himself produced is incredibly counter intuitive and akin to saying 'if I shoot myself in the head I will die, and here's the data to back it up' and then promptly carrying out that action. It's quite absurd.
If the goal was to appease the few Foundry authors, I think time will show that goal will not be met. Players will not all of a sudden decide to play 'wall of text' missions or venture to the Foundry and play 'your' missions because they 'must'. TBQH, if your missions were really that superb people would already know of them and be playing them. Certainly you can see attempting to strong arm anyone into your area of story telling will simply get you ***** slapped by the very book you are attempting to read from? People will take note of those few and either slam them publicly, ignore their missions altogether or be vindictive enough to purposely run your content with the sole intention of giving negative reviews. None of these are good options, is that really what you were after?
If the goal was to re-balance this area of the game I think time will show this goal will also not be met. Yanking 50 FM's from a mission repeatable every 30 minutes will have the same affect that was in place prior to the new rewards being implemented - a shortage of Fleet Marks to the player base. With no 'balancing' applied to any other source they intentionally re-create the scenario where players were starved for FM's. They have said this and provided data to support it. Saying you know a problem exists due to your decision and leaving it in place without a possible fix or balance for months is like saying you know your leg has a huge wound but will do nothing about it knowing full well it will get infected and possibly need to be cut off.
If the goal was to prevent players from 'exploiting' the Foundry I think time will show this goal will also not be met. It is still possible to AFK missions that meet the new scaled criteria to obtain DIL. Missions will be created that can 'take advantage' of the scaled system, to wit, players will under any type of imposed boundary or criteria - Humans test their limits. Already people are discussing the best options for optimal ROI under this new scaled criteria, and winning.
Honestly, I don't see much being achieved here except an angry player base for the most part. It doesn't seem like anybody wins.
It's me again.
Just wanted to make a point. If this game is a grind fest and most seem to agree.
then having a so called Boff Grinder would be alright , wouldn't it?
I mean it's still a grind and still takes time right?
so it seems people are defending Cryptics grind but if a player makes one then bash it all to H*ll huh?
in the real world we are not censored if we find a way of making more resource
examples would include getting food by using coupons, quiting your job for a higher paying one, asking for a raise, going on strike when we are mistreated on the job, and so on.
To be honest, the players that did nothing but grind AFK missions for marks and dil never did and STILL have no real interest in the Foundry, so that point is completely moot. And in the same post, the AFKers that abuse the STFs are mentioned. How are the players using the Foundry for easy loot/dil with an obvious exploit any different?
If STFs were suddenly spammed by player generated missions that had a minimum of an hour completion time, you would be raising more hell than anything. The same works the other way around.
Because someone who AFKs in a solo foundry mission doesn't affect anyone else like it does in and STF or a fleet action. If STFs were suddenly spammed with 1hr content people would just use the search function for the mission they want. I usually never play a mission in the top rated section anyhow. Your solutions about adding marks elsewhere and a system to address AFK would go a long way in fixing some major issues in this game. It has also been stated several times and I posted a copy of the foundry page here for everyone's edification:
The Foundry for Star Trek Online is your first chance to craft the Star Trek universe your way. Using The Foundry toolset, you can create and build brand new missions and stories to share with your friends and the entire Star Trek Online community. Use the specialized editor to create missions in space or on the ground. Re-create your favorite Star Trek episode or design your very own from scratch!
The Foundry for Star Trek Online is already live and ready for you to use. Gold members can simply log into the game and create content. Once at the Character Selection screen, click on the "Create Content" tab to start designing and building your own missions! Silver members will need to purchase or unlock Foundry Project Slots. Visit the free-to-play Features Matrix to learn more.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Interested to see if they do mention this and if so, how she will spin it.
Cheques in the mail eh?
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
True, this actually isn't about the Fleet Marks, it's about respect, or complete lack shown by the dev team. The player base was very upset with the dilithium nerf introduced after season 7. A band-aid solution and the admittedly wonderful Winter and Anniversary events passified the player base. But the fact of the matter is that the game was and still IS a grind fest and episodes like the current fleet mark removal and subsequent snubbing by the devs completely diminish the good will they tried to build with the holiday events. If I ran a company like this, I certainly wouldn't expect to be running it for long.
I'm more upset that they removed tech from STF's, introduced a reputation system for it, and then had the audacity to claim they where doing me a favour.
Fact is, in S5 I logged on for fun, mostly straight after I got home, did stuff with fleetmates etc. Now, I don't log in till later in the evening, and most of the time I just chat and look at the exchange. In fact, since I got an out of game client to chat I don't even log in anymore. They have taken away the sole reason for playing, to have *fun*. All that is left to me is chatting and STF's every now and then. The dev's keep going on about dilithium, well I never had a problem maxing my cap in season 5, and I still don't have one, I just don't bother with refining it anymore. And if they really want to help us getting more dilithium for the Starbases, rep systems and whatever, then allow us to donate unrefined dilithium too. That wouldn't hurt the dili economy, and stimulate donations...but that's just wishfull thinking I guess.
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine?
True, this actually isn't about the Fleet Marks, it's about respect, or complete lack shown by the dev team. The player base was very upset with the dilithium nerf introduced after season 7. A band-aid solution and the admittedly wonderful Winter and Anniversary events passified the player base. But the fact of the matter is that the game was and still IS a grind fest and episodes like the current fleet mark removal and subsequent snubbing by the devs completely diminish the good will they tried to build with the holiday events. If I ran a company like this, I certainly wouldn't expect to be running it for long.
Exactly this!
I, like many others I suspect, was willing to give Cryptic the benefit of the doubt after they hastily implemented the post-Season 7 fixes - the hope being that they'd realised they overstepped the mark and would pay greater attention to what the community was telling them going forward.
Obviously that's not the case and they're simply scheming other ways to get more time and/or money out of us via the most opaque and swingeing moves available to them.
Honestly, I'm dreading The Season formerly known as 8 because it seems clear that whilst it'll be shiny and colorful and pretty, beneath all the glitz will be more Scrooge-like mechanics as they seek to limit player choice and force us into grinding more or paying more.
Even a hamster needs to get off the wheel once in a while :rolleyes:
I cannot see this ending well for Cryptic at all. As a way of breaking my pattern of spending with them, instead of spending this $20 on zen, I am gonna head out and have a decent lunch. A steak perhaps. Why? Because I have additional income I can just blow it on whatever I want...but not on a Cryptic game. Not anymore.
No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
True, this actually isn't about the Fleet Marks, it's about respect, or complete lack shown by the dev team. The player base was very upset with the dilithium nerf introduced after season 7. A band-aid solution and the admittedly wonderful Winter and Anniversary events passified the player base. But the fact of the matter is that the game was and still IS a grind fest and episodes like the current fleet mark removal and subsequent snubbing by the devs completely diminish the good will they tried to build with the holiday events. If I ran a company like this, I certainly wouldn't expect to be running it for long.
Maybe it's time for folks to quit trying to convince Dan Stahl of making the right choices and start emailing PWE execs or Jack Emmert to ask for Dan's resignation. I think it's time to get some new blood at the helm and maybe we'll get someone whose concerns are more inline with the playerbase.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Maybe it's time for folks to quit trying to convince Dan Stahl of making the right choices and start emailing PWE execs or Jack Emmert to ask for Dan's resignation. I think it's time to get some new blood at the helm and maybe we'll get someone whose concerns are more inline with the playerbase.
Maybe JJ would want to take a shot at the helm..XD
I'd getit if someone makes an overhaul mod and makes it in the proper universe. With a bonus level where you can hunt jjabrams down.
Only if we get a mission where we can defend JJ (I like ST09 )
*puts flame suit on*
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Trust me I appreciate and understand the crappy situation we're all in. And yes, we are all forced to grind. What I was pointing out, is the method of doing so is flawed, and it always was. As far as saying that the missions weren't "autofarm", allow me to clarify what I saw:
1) If you can walk off and have lunch/watch TV/read the forums/etc with little to no input from you at all while the game plays and earns rewards for you, then you are AFK (as in Away From Keyboard)
2) It is not up to the players to "fix" a broken anything in the game. It is certainly not up the the player base to do it using a tactic which is obviously not intended. If you're going to argue that using a storymaking tool to make enemies that don't fight back, or to turn your BOffs into auto-win robots for easy money making isn't wrong, then I don't have much more to say on the matter.
1) This was not fixed by the patch. You can still AFK in any mission as long as it takes 20 minutes and still earn dilithium and now without a cooldown. The boff thing still actually works and you get loot and dilithium.
2) I agree with you there. Cryptic should be fixing it.
3) It's not just a storymaking tool; it's also a mission tool.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
I cannot see this ending well for Cryptic at all. As a way of breaking my pattern of spending with them, instead of spending this $20 on zen, I am gonna head out and have a decent lunch. A steak perhaps. Why? Because I have additional income I can just blow it on whatever I want...but not on a Cryptic game. Not anymore.
LOL this is nothing......honestly Cryptic have done far worse than this.....and STILL they ignored the playerbase......Cryptic devs are EPIC at not actually replying to player concerns.
No matter what the fuffy happy state of the game wording is about how they care deeply about STO....the ultimate truth is...no....they do NOT care about STO or even the Trek franchise.....this is after all the company that hired Dollar Bill Roper.....some people like to say that all that he touches turns to gold......no it's fools gold and sooner or later people will realise that.
HA just kidding.....no one will realise anything because people are STUPID and this is WHY online gaming has gone to the dogs....because it is NOT now and never will be again about games for gamers....it's all about teh moneh!!!
Maybe it's time for folks to quit trying to convince Dan Stahl of making the right choices and start emailing PWE execs or Jack Emmert to ask for Dan's resignation. I think it's time to get some new blood at the helm and maybe we'll get someone whose concerns are more inline with the playerbase.
I voiced a similar opinion earlier in this thread - STO needs a new direction and a new vision but despite our disappointment in the path this game is taking, Dan's still the same guy that had a great vision for STO back in the Atari days.
So why did that vision change? Because it's not his call.
Even if PWE did replace him, all it would be is a PR stunt - maybe with a few belated concessions towards transparency and communication with the player-base.
If you have a complaint about the game, then voice it - or stop giving PWE your money - or walk away and find something more rewarding - blaming Stahl or calling for his head won't change a thing - not in any way that matters anyway.
This is adressed to Everyone : Dear D.Stahl, Dear Comunnity.
Fleet Marks :
No matter if you are in a 500 members fleet or 5, doing FM events as they are designed is NOT FUN at all.
Why not removing Fleet Marks at all and the boring events that come with? no even need to raise or reset amount of other contributed currency as they are hard enough to get anyway.
Just get rid of Fleet Marks.
In your matter of reducing the many currencies ingame that would help a lot
As a player and a customer im getting worried at this point
Foundry Missions
A : Dear Foundry Authors :
Most of your missions actually suck. and if it was not for FMs, only a small percentage of the players would play them. Actually It's gonna be this way again.
You can flame all the way you want bout this, but this is how things are : The FACTS not the talking.
The spotlighted missions are just an overall troll since NOT A SINGLE ONE of them I've played was fun in my mind. this for 2 reasons :
- I was like 'hell when its gonna end , I gotta grind for more important game stuff; Huh another text wall > F spam'
- Dang is it me or I've seen this before? ' Oh wait same patterns than the other xxxx missiosn I've played'
Don't get me wrong, the lack of complexity into the foundry builder does that so you can't anyway make any missions worth interesting.
It's always ending with same redondant patterns such as : Space zone > kill enemies > beam to planet > resolve stuff > space Zone again > Kill etc etc etc with tons and tons of text that no one want to read in a dynamic game that is.
Come on there is not even a decent mapper tool such as in any good FPS games out there.
Or not to mention it : the Starcraft builder.
As a player and a customer I'm getting bored a this point.
Exploit
This is adressed to Cryptic team : Do you seriously think for a second than people would trade iron for gold ? in other word the missions you designed for earning FMs are :
- Too few of them
- Boring after even playing twice of them
- Ridiculous amount rewarding.
- Waste of time when a player desire one thing : FUN
- NOT FUN
So why would we play the foundry missions when they rewarded FM :
- Exploit : yes I agree the easy looty missions + 50 FMs reward were something unvaluable into the process of feeding the Starbase + gaining time over... time in the game; So taht in the end we could have enjoyed our playtime on other more interesting stuff
- Not only exploit : Yes, this was a mean for a lot of players ( me included ) to get to be more interested into foundry missions; trying them, playing them, even if a lot are boring. Cause in the end you know you won't do it for 'nothing'
Other kind of Currencies
I know im repeating but I think it is fair to point out how hard Dear D. Stahl, you pointed out how important it was to reduce the ingame currencies... as this was right before Season 7 Launch
Let me remind at your good will the many amount of currencies we have ingame now :
Energy Credits,
Dilithium ,
Lobi,
Fleet Marks,
Fleet Credits,
Omega Marks,
Romulan Marks,
Gold Pressed Latinum,
and ZEN.
Before season 7 we had :
Encrypted Datachips minus the OM and RMs
Before Season 5 we had :
Starfleet Merits
PVP Medals
Badge of Exploration
Emblems
Marks of Valor
Marks of Honnor
Marks of Exploration
Honor
Minus Dilithium and Encrypted Datachips.
Let me do a short comparison : OHhh absolute no reducing at all; only the purpose and the meaning of currencies have changed .
As a customer and a bored player im getting angry at this point.
BUGS
I can safely say that I have not seen so many bugs onto a game that are not beeing fixed.
Well I've seen taht before on really ****ty games that is.
I want to think STO is not one of them.
I'm not even gonna list them cause there are too many of them and I have been bored eough.
At this point I'm a customer on the edge to quit this game and a very angry player that dont find any FUN in this game but the STF part.
I would be worry as a game developper to see some of the players get fun in like 5% on what the game has to provide.
So That said
You have obviously whatsoever not got any experience from a playerbase expectations onto a MMO game.
Seeing the amount of disapointed people over months I cant think otherwise
How is it that hard to make people happy ?
dont you get the equation ?
Enforced players = cash
Happy players = even more cash
You have ruined the game when Season 7 launched;
The wonderfull new places to be ( New Romulus) are a pain, and only a meant to grind another currency out of our strenghts.
I'm tired to come to this game and all I do is grind and you know what? beside that there's not much to do because the fun content has long gone from it.
At this point I'm a Quitting player Sick of developpers that clearly give the finger to an already unhappy playerbase.
Have fun with NW as I'll get fun onto other safer place to be.
Maybe JJ would want to take a shot at the helm..XD
*ducks and runs like hell...*
You know, it may be a twitchy subject for some Star Trek fans, but if another studio announced a new Star Trek MMO set in the JJ-verse I'd drop this one in a heartbeat - after all, it's got to be pretty hard to TRIBBLE up Trek any more than this game has.
Maybe it's time for folks to quit trying to convince Dan Stahl of making the right choices and start emailing PWE execs or Jack Emmert to ask for Dan's resignation. I think it's time to get some new blood at the helm and maybe we'll get someone whose concerns are more inline with the playerbase.
you do know he's left once before in the past right? Things were going good, then he came back.
"I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment... because they'll never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived" Picard to Riker
- ...I was like 'hell when its gonna end , I gotta grind for more important game stuff; Huh another text wall > F spam'
- Dang is it me or I've seen this before? ' Oh wait same patterns than the other xxxx missiosn I've played'
LMAO!
So true! These are sentences that have run through EvErYoNeS mind while doing a Foundry mission.
In Cryptic's defense, the construction of Earth Spacedock took about 50 years, so actually I think a year, two years for a whole starbase is not actually that bad. Besides, new stuff is coming in may, can't you just be patient and wait?
The entire game is focused around said starbase and "reputation" grind. Blizzard didn't expect players to raid Karazhan as progression for three years. Spending three years building up a guild to level twenty five was not their design either. You can't tell me Blizzard's philosophy hasn't been wildly successful.
There was no abuse. No one was getting hurt. No starbases were getting dramatically closely to completion. The only people getting hurt were authors who didn't get the amounts of players they wanted.
You're being a bit short sighted. These missions did create some interest in the Foundry. If it weren't for the XP and FM wrapper, I wouldn't even had bothered with the Foundry. Now, with basically limited to no incentive there is no reason to even bother with the Foundry. Maybe some people did use it for FM, but exactly who was being harmed? Have any more Starbases reached all T5?
There is no more choice; we must now grind the same stale content for the meager rewards for a relatively high time investment. Not to mention the dramatic increase in AFKers
Your attitude is common among the author Foundry authors who demanded this change. I can't understand why we must all play your way.
There is only one thing I can say to this, if you are not a Star Trek fan, why are you even bothering to play this game? If you do not enjoy a good story about Star Trek? Why are you playing this game? I mean seriously? Why are you bothering?
Using the Foundry other then Cryptic intended is called "abuse" and I understand that Cryptic had to stop it. A lot of missions that had minimal effort but were reviewed about 1000 times were being used just to exploit the reward system.
We've already established it does not fit the definition of exploit. It does, however, fit the style of play that Cryptic has forced everyone into: Currency Grind.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
Only if we get a mission where we can defend JJ (I like ST09 )
*puts flame suit on*
A PVP Capture the JJ objective. Working condition of objective during capture is of course optional.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
you do know he's left once before in the past right? Things were going good, then he came back.
No - things weren't going good - all the previous EP did was prep the game for F2P.
He was a systems guy - no vision, no passion - he had a job to do and he did it.
Whilst the game might be slightly different if he'd stayed as EP, I honestly don't think it'd be any better (and again, I'm not sure that the calls would really have been his to make).
I will admit, that post was probably geared at me and some others that believe the timing between the some of the author's demands and the various foundry changes were just too convieniant. In the 75 page post that was closed, linkes were posted with the the some of the more vocal authors demanding changes. Someone pointed out the dates between the demands and the changes, and well it kind of took off from there.
Of course, then you have some of the authors posting that the Foundry should only be for what they view are story missions.
It's that elitist "do it my way or not at all" attitude that had some people angry. The "so what if it is solo play and it doesn't hurt anyone else it doesn't conform" attitude doesn't help either.
Let's try to get to truth about why the Foundry authors that opposed the quick and easy missions, were/are really upset about...
What difference does it make to them if players choose to play the quick and easy missions? Cryptic DID APPROVE what was rewarded in them in order for them to even be in the IOR/Foundry system!
So what could be the REAL reason these FA's complained loudly enough to Cryptic to have Cryptic nerf the system?
Well ponder on this and see if this logic makes sense to you....
At the end of the FA's missions, players have the opportunity to review/reward the FA's with a "Tip" and a rating.
So just what is that "Tip" and how does the rating come into play?
Simple....
If a player decides to "Tip" the FA, then the FA gets a minimum of 25 Dilithium.
Okay so now lets do some simple math...
A) Let's say that 500 players do their mission every day (I know it is likely more, but let's keep the math simple). note it would be nice to have the stats from PWE/Cryptic so we do the exact math here.
And of that 500, 10% actually give a "Tip" (minimum tip of 25 Dil. will do here) and a high rating...
So that would be 50 x 25 = 1250 Dilithium income per mission every day
1250 Dilithium x 30 = 37,500 Dilithium per month
37500 x 12 months = "You get whatever you want from any in-game store for your "artistic" input.
Oh and let's not forget the rating... the higher the rating the more players and the more changes of getting the "Tip".
With that much Dilithium being earned by an FA it would make sense they would get upset if suddenly players did not play their long, text filled story in favor of the quick 15 minute missions that gave rewards to players that they could actually use.
And remember PWE/Cryptic APPROVED the quick missions when they shut down the foundry and reviewed all the missions to make sure there were not exploits in them.
The FA's want us to believe they created their foundry missions as "Art", game enhancing, enriching wonderful addtions to the STO gameplay!
You really think we are that stupid to beleive that was the reason you did these?
You created them to get your pockets lined with Dilithium and get your name noticed by the devs so maybe they would include some of your ideas in the future.
Since PWE/Cryptic has forgotten how to, or decided not to, write good content for the game, maybe you and the devs thought this was a way to keep the masses happy and still do keep them grinding...
Well I don't believe any of the "artistic"missions are actullay good for the game.
The majority of players, and most of us are very silent until this FUBAR gets rammed down our throats, don't post in the forums and try to bepart of the "in" crowd. We, the silent majority, just want a game that is fun to play online with our friends.
So do us all a favor and stop saying the FA's had nothing to do with this...
PWE/Cryptic approved and re-approved all of the missions that were not red-flagged for the IOR system and they only removed the FM's and changed the system because you, the "select" FA's, had their ears due to you devoting your time to the forums, podcasts, and any other avenue you could find to get "your" wishes listened to by PWE/Cryptic.
So if your "art" is so good, why do you spend so much time not actually playing the game?
No one can have that much time on thier hands to do the grinding in-game and spend that much time doing the forums, etc. and have a real life with a real job and family.
Trust me I appreciate and understand the crappy situation we're all in. And yes, we are all forced to grind. What I was pointing out, is the method of doing so is flawed, and it always was. As far as saying that the missions weren't "autofarm", allow me to clarify what I saw:
1) If you can walk off and have lunch/watch TV/read the forums/etc with little to no input from you at all while the game plays and earns rewards for you, then you are AFK (as in Away From Keyboard)
2) It is not up to the players to "fix" a broken anything in the game. It is certainly not up the the player base to do it using a tactic which is obviously not intended. If you're going to argue that using a storymaking tool to make enemies that don't fight back, or to turn your BOffs into auto-win robots for easy money making isn't wrong, then I don't have much more to say on the matter.
Actually, it's not wrong. This is a GAME, the point is to have FUN. The enormous amount of required grinding gets in the way of fun, the AFK missions were a way to circumvent that and bring back some of the fun. I'm lucky, I've completed both reputation systems and had most of the stuff I needed from the old STF system, so at least I don't have to grind for that anymore. But I'm also a high rank player in a fleet and a college student. I have to contribute a decent amount to fleet progression, and I have to do a lot of studying, and after that I may finally have time for some fun. The AFK missions allowed me to study and grind simultaneously, giving me some chance at being able to actually play later.
It's certainly wrong that such things are needed, but they are needed, and as such aren't in themselves wrong.
Comments
I thought it was too good to last lol and it seems fair to me that we don't get too much for a mission. The Fleet Marks were nice tho!
Thanks
Corbormite
Cryptic, whether at the behest of above Foundry authors or not, handled the entire situation poorly and deserves blame as well. They were not open about the time frame they had planned for the IOR being in place with the rewards it had, and just kind of threw it out there without much ado at all. Then they yank it away without any real justification or notification, and in fact pointing out data that would suggest taking this reward out without balancing it somewhere else would HURT the game and the player base using 'metrics' that Dan himself produced is incredibly counter intuitive and akin to saying 'if I shoot myself in the head I will die, and here's the data to back it up' and then promptly carrying out that action. It's quite absurd.
If the goal was to appease the few Foundry authors, I think time will show that goal will not be met. Players will not all of a sudden decide to play 'wall of text' missions or venture to the Foundry and play 'your' missions because they 'must'. TBQH, if your missions were really that superb people would already know of them and be playing them. Certainly you can see attempting to strong arm anyone into your area of story telling will simply get you ***** slapped by the very book you are attempting to read from? People will take note of those few and either slam them publicly, ignore their missions altogether or be vindictive enough to purposely run your content with the sole intention of giving negative reviews. None of these are good options, is that really what you were after?
If the goal was to re-balance this area of the game I think time will show this goal will also not be met. Yanking 50 FM's from a mission repeatable every 30 minutes will have the same affect that was in place prior to the new rewards being implemented - a shortage of Fleet Marks to the player base. With no 'balancing' applied to any other source they intentionally re-create the scenario where players were starved for FM's. They have said this and provided data to support it. Saying you know a problem exists due to your decision and leaving it in place without a possible fix or balance for months is like saying you know your leg has a huge wound but will do nothing about it knowing full well it will get infected and possibly need to be cut off.
If the goal was to prevent players from 'exploiting' the Foundry I think time will show this goal will also not be met. It is still possible to AFK missions that meet the new scaled criteria to obtain DIL. Missions will be created that can 'take advantage' of the scaled system, to wit, players will under any type of imposed boundary or criteria - Humans test their limits. Already people are discussing the best options for optimal ROI under this new scaled criteria, and winning.
Honestly, I don't see much being achieved here except an angry player base for the most part. It doesn't seem like anybody wins.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The o3 - Killed you good
Just wanted to make a point. If this game is a grind fest and most seem to agree.
then having a so called Boff Grinder would be alright , wouldn't it?
I mean it's still a grind and still takes time right?
so it seems people are defending Cryptics grind but if a player makes one then bash it all to H*ll huh?
in the real world we are not censored if we find a way of making more resource
examples would include getting food by using coupons, quiting your job for a higher paying one, asking for a raise, going on strike when we are mistreated on the job, and so on.
The powers that be want the game slowed down. Longer game player = more chances of getting some money in from someone, somewhere.
Sadly, money is all that matters to them it seems.
Because someone who AFKs in a solo foundry mission doesn't affect anyone else like it does in and STF or a fleet action. If STFs were suddenly spammed with 1hr content people would just use the search function for the mission they want. I usually never play a mission in the top rated section anyhow. Your solutions about adding marks elsewhere and a system to address AFK would go a long way in fixing some major issues in this game. It has also been stated several times and I posted a copy of the foundry page here for everyone's edification:
The Foundry for Star Trek Online is your first chance to craft the Star Trek universe your way. Using The Foundry toolset, you can create and build brand new missions and stories to share with your friends and the entire Star Trek Online community. Use the specialized editor to create missions in space or on the ground. Re-create your favorite Star Trek episode or design your very own from scratch!
The Foundry for Star Trek Online is already live and ready for you to use. Gold members can simply log into the game and create content. Once at the Character Selection screen, click on the "Create Content" tab to start designing and building your own missions! Silver members will need to purchase or unlock Foundry Project Slots. Visit the free-to-play Features Matrix to learn more.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
I'd getit if someone makes an overhaul mod and makes it in the proper universe. With a bonus level where you can hunt jjabrams down.
And stalls player and starbase expansion, to where they want it to be.
Something about a 10 foot pole?
Interested to see if they do mention this and if so, how she will spin it.
Cheques in the mail eh?
That was my point
Lol don't forget it means they are under less pressure to actually make new meaningful content...
Oh you want new stuff... but you've not even finished T5 yet, here buy some lockbox Keys!!!
#2311#2700#2316#2500
I was over on MMORPG and STO isn't even top 10 anymore. Was for awhile...
After all, wasn't it the MMO of The Year? Now its the MMO of The Tears.
XD
I'm more upset that they removed tech from STF's, introduced a reputation system for it, and then had the audacity to claim they where doing me a favour.
Fact is, in S5 I logged on for fun, mostly straight after I got home, did stuff with fleetmates etc. Now, I don't log in till later in the evening, and most of the time I just chat and look at the exchange. In fact, since I got an out of game client to chat I don't even log in anymore. They have taken away the sole reason for playing, to have *fun*. All that is left to me is chatting and STF's every now and then. The dev's keep going on about dilithium, well I never had a problem maxing my cap in season 5, and I still don't have one, I just don't bother with refining it anymore. And if they really want to help us getting more dilithium for the Starbases, rep systems and whatever, then allow us to donate unrefined dilithium too. That wouldn't hurt the dili economy, and stimulate donations...but that's just wishfull thinking I guess.
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Exactly this!
I, like many others I suspect, was willing to give Cryptic the benefit of the doubt after they hastily implemented the post-Season 7 fixes - the hope being that they'd realised they overstepped the mark and would pay greater attention to what the community was telling them going forward.
Obviously that's not the case and they're simply scheming other ways to get more time and/or money out of us via the most opaque and swingeing moves available to them.
Honestly, I'm dreading The Season formerly known as 8 because it seems clear that whilst it'll be shiny and colorful and pretty, beneath all the glitz will be more Scrooge-like mechanics as they seek to limit player choice and force us into grinding more or paying more.
Even a hamster needs to get off the wheel once in a while :rolleyes:
Maybe it's time for folks to quit trying to convince Dan Stahl of making the right choices and start emailing PWE execs or Jack Emmert to ask for Dan's resignation. I think it's time to get some new blood at the helm and maybe we'll get someone whose concerns are more inline with the playerbase.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Maybe JJ would want to take a shot at the helm..XD
*ducks and runs like hell...*
Only if we get a mission where we can defend JJ (I like ST09
*puts flame suit on*
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
1) This was not fixed by the patch. You can still AFK in any mission as long as it takes 20 minutes and still earn dilithium and now without a cooldown. The boff thing still actually works and you get loot and dilithium.
2) I agree with you there. Cryptic should be fixing it.
3) It's not just a storymaking tool; it's also a mission tool.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
LOL this is nothing......honestly Cryptic have done far worse than this.....and STILL they ignored the playerbase......Cryptic devs are EPIC at not actually replying to player concerns.
No matter what the fuffy happy state of the game wording is about how they care deeply about STO....the ultimate truth is...no....they do NOT care about STO or even the Trek franchise.....this is after all the company that hired Dollar Bill Roper.....some people like to say that all that he touches turns to gold......no it's fools gold and sooner or later people will realise that.
HA just kidding.....no one will realise anything because people are STUPID and this is WHY online gaming has gone to the dogs....because it is NOT now and never will be again about games for gamers....it's all about teh moneh!!!
Dollar Bill says 'MOAR CASH!!!!!'
I voiced a similar opinion earlier in this thread - STO needs a new direction and a new vision but despite our disappointment in the path this game is taking, Dan's still the same guy that had a great vision for STO back in the Atari days.
So why did that vision change? Because it's not his call.
Even if PWE did replace him, all it would be is a PR stunt - maybe with a few belated concessions towards transparency and communication with the player-base.
If you have a complaint about the game, then voice it - or stop giving PWE your money - or walk away and find something more rewarding - blaming Stahl or calling for his head won't change a thing - not in any way that matters anyway.
Fleet Marks :
No matter if you are in a 500 members fleet or 5, doing FM events as they are designed is NOT FUN at all.
Why not removing Fleet Marks at all and the boring events that come with? no even need to raise or reset amount of other contributed currency as they are hard enough to get anyway.
Just get rid of Fleet Marks.
In your matter of reducing the many currencies ingame that would help a lot
As a player and a customer im getting worried at this point
Foundry Missions
A : Dear Foundry Authors :
Most of your missions actually suck. and if it was not for FMs, only a small percentage of the players would play them. Actually It's gonna be this way again.
You can flame all the way you want bout this, but this is how things are : The FACTS not the talking.
The spotlighted missions are just an overall troll since NOT A SINGLE ONE of them I've played was fun in my mind. this for 2 reasons :
- I was like 'hell when its gonna end , I gotta grind for more important game stuff; Huh another text wall > F spam'
- Dang is it me or I've seen this before? ' Oh wait same patterns than the other xxxx missiosn I've played'
Don't get me wrong, the lack of complexity into the foundry builder does that so you can't anyway make any missions worth interesting.
It's always ending with same redondant patterns such as : Space zone > kill enemies > beam to planet > resolve stuff > space Zone again > Kill etc etc etc with tons and tons of text that no one want to read in a dynamic game that is.
Come on there is not even a decent mapper tool such as in any good FPS games out there.
Or not to mention it : the Starcraft builder.
As a player and a customer I'm getting bored a this point.
Exploit
This is adressed to Cryptic team : Do you seriously think for a second than people would trade iron for gold ? in other word the missions you designed for earning FMs are :
- Too few of them
- Boring after even playing twice of them
- Ridiculous amount rewarding.
- Waste of time when a player desire one thing : FUN
- NOT FUN
So why would we play the foundry missions when they rewarded FM :
- Exploit : yes I agree the easy looty missions + 50 FMs reward were something unvaluable into the process of feeding the Starbase + gaining time over... time in the game; So taht in the end we could have enjoyed our playtime on other more interesting stuff
- Not only exploit : Yes, this was a mean for a lot of players ( me included ) to get to be more interested into foundry missions; trying them, playing them, even if a lot are boring. Cause in the end you know you won't do it for 'nothing'
Other kind of Currencies
I know im repeating but I think it is fair to point out how hard Dear D. Stahl, you pointed out how important it was to reduce the ingame currencies... as this was right before Season 7 Launch
Let me remind at your good will the many amount of currencies we have ingame now :
Energy Credits,
Dilithium ,
Lobi,
Fleet Marks,
Fleet Credits,
Omega Marks,
Romulan Marks,
Gold Pressed Latinum,
and ZEN.
Before season 7 we had :
Encrypted Datachips minus the OM and RMs
Before Season 5 we had :
Starfleet Merits
PVP Medals
Badge of Exploration
Emblems
Marks of Valor
Marks of Honnor
Marks of Exploration
Honor
Minus Dilithium and Encrypted Datachips.
Let me do a short comparison : OHhh absolute no reducing at all; only the purpose and the meaning of currencies have changed .
As a customer and a bored player im getting angry at this point.
BUGS
I can safely say that I have not seen so many bugs onto a game that are not beeing fixed.
Well I've seen taht before on really ****ty games that is.
I want to think STO is not one of them.
I'm not even gonna list them cause there are too many of them and I have been bored eough.
At this point I'm a customer on the edge to quit this game and a very angry player that dont find any FUN in this game but the STF part.
I would be worry as a game developper to see some of the players get fun in like 5% on what the game has to provide.
So That said
You have obviously whatsoever not got any experience from a playerbase expectations onto a MMO game.
Seeing the amount of disapointed people over months I cant think otherwise
How is it that hard to make people happy ?
dont you get the equation ?
Enforced players = cash
Happy players = even more cash
You have ruined the game when Season 7 launched;
The wonderfull new places to be ( New Romulus) are a pain, and only a meant to grind another currency out of our strenghts.
I'm tired to come to this game and all I do is grind and you know what? beside that there's not much to do because the fun content has long gone from it.
At this point I'm a Quitting player Sick of developpers that clearly give the finger to an already unhappy playerbase.
Have fun with NW as I'll get fun onto other safer place to be.
You know, it may be a twitchy subject for some Star Trek fans, but if another studio announced a new Star Trek MMO set in the JJ-verse I'd drop this one in a heartbeat - after all, it's got to be pretty hard to TRIBBLE up Trek any more than this game has.
you do know he's left once before in the past right? Things were going good, then he came back.
"I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment... because they'll never come again. What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived" Picard to Riker
LMAO!
So true! These are sentences that have run through EvErYoNeS mind while doing a Foundry mission.
The entire game is focused around said starbase and "reputation" grind. Blizzard didn't expect players to raid Karazhan as progression for three years. Spending three years building up a guild to level twenty five was not their design either. You can't tell me Blizzard's philosophy hasn't been wildly successful.
Such missions shriveled the size of their...ego.
We've already established it does not fit the definition of exploit. It does, however, fit the style of play that Cryptic has forced everyone into: Currency Grind.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
A PVP Capture the JJ objective. Working condition of objective during capture is of course optional.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
No - things weren't going good - all the previous EP did was prep the game for F2P.
He was a systems guy - no vision, no passion - he had a job to do and he did it.
Whilst the game might be slightly different if he'd stayed as EP, I honestly don't think it'd be any better (and again, I'm not sure that the calls would really have been his to make).
Let's try to get to truth about why the Foundry authors that opposed the quick and easy missions, were/are really upset about...
What difference does it make to them if players choose to play the quick and easy missions? Cryptic DID APPROVE what was rewarded in them in order for them to even be in the IOR/Foundry system!
So what could be the REAL reason these FA's complained loudly enough to Cryptic to have Cryptic nerf the system?
Well ponder on this and see if this logic makes sense to you....
At the end of the FA's missions, players have the opportunity to review/reward the FA's with a "Tip" and a rating.
So just what is that "Tip" and how does the rating come into play?
Simple....
If a player decides to "Tip" the FA, then the FA gets a minimum of 25 Dilithium.
Okay so now lets do some simple math...
A) Let's say that 500 players do their mission every day (I know it is likely more, but let's keep the math simple). note it would be nice to have the stats from PWE/Cryptic so we do the exact math here.
So that would be 50 x 25 = 1250 Dilithium income per mission every day
1250 Dilithium x 30 = 37,500 Dilithium per month
37500 x 12 months = "You get whatever you want from any in-game store for your "artistic" input.
Oh and let's not forget the rating... the higher the rating the more players and the more changes of getting the "Tip".
With that much Dilithium being earned by an FA it would make sense they would get upset if suddenly players did not play their long, text filled story in favor of the quick 15 minute missions that gave rewards to players that they could actually use.
And remember PWE/Cryptic APPROVED the quick missions when they shut down the foundry and reviewed all the missions to make sure there were not exploits in them.
The FA's want us to believe they created their foundry missions as "Art", game enhancing, enriching wonderful addtions to the STO gameplay!
You really think we are that stupid to beleive that was the reason you did these?
You created them to get your pockets lined with Dilithium and get your name noticed by the devs so maybe they would include some of your ideas in the future.
Since PWE/Cryptic has forgotten how to, or decided not to, write good content for the game, maybe you and the devs thought this was a way to keep the masses happy and still do keep them grinding...
Well I don't believe any of the "artistic"missions are actullay good for the game.
The majority of players, and most of us are very silent until this FUBAR gets rammed down our throats, don't post in the forums and try to bepart of the "in" crowd. We, the silent majority, just want a game that is fun to play online with our friends.
So do us all a favor and stop saying the FA's had nothing to do with this...
PWE/Cryptic approved and re-approved all of the missions that were not red-flagged for the IOR system and they only removed the FM's and changed the system because you, the "select" FA's, had their ears due to you devoting your time to the forums, podcasts, and any other avenue you could find to get "your" wishes listened to by PWE/Cryptic.
So if your "art" is so good, why do you spend so much time not actually playing the game?
No one can have that much time on thier hands to do the grinding in-game and spend that much time doing the forums, etc. and have a real life with a real job and family.
PWE/Cryptic Stop the grind, bring back the fun!
Zeus
Actually, it's not wrong. This is a GAME, the point is to have FUN. The enormous amount of required grinding gets in the way of fun, the AFK missions were a way to circumvent that and bring back some of the fun. I'm lucky, I've completed both reputation systems and had most of the stuff I needed from the old STF system, so at least I don't have to grind for that anymore. But I'm also a high rank player in a fleet and a college student. I have to contribute a decent amount to fleet progression, and I have to do a lot of studying, and after that I may finally have time for some fun. The AFK missions allowed me to study and grind simultaneously, giving me some chance at being able to actually play later.
It's certainly wrong that such things are needed, but they are needed, and as such aren't in themselves wrong.
He wentto Zynga... a vile company that is now going down in flames.