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Ground PVP Concerns Directory 1.0

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    nulonunulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Good timing Mrkollins. I'll help get things started:

    Federation engineer Orbital Strike:The targeting recticle that shows up on the floor prior to Orbital Strike landing has disappeared for federation characters. Oddly, KDF orbital strike still shows normally. This was reported on Tribble before Legacy of Romulus went live but wasn't addressed.

    Medical Vanguard:This trait remains active for the duration of nanite health monitor when a science officer casts it on them self. When cast on another player it counts down correctly. Medical vanguard also stays active indefinitely while wearing elite fleet armor allowing a science officer to have perfect shields until nanite generator triggers.
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    majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    nulonu wrote: »
    Good timing Mrkollins. I'll help get things started:

    Federation engineer Orbital Strike:The targeting recticle that shows up on the floor prior to Orbital Strike landing has disappeared for federation characters. Oddly, KDF orbital strike still shows normally. This was reported on Tribble before Legacy of Romulus went live but wasn't addressed.

    Medical Vanguard:This trait remains active for the duration of nanite health monitor when a science officer casts it on them self. When cast on another player it counts down correctly. Medical vanguard also stays active indefinitely while wearing elite fleet armor allowing a science officer to have perfect shields until nanite generator triggers.

    I actually think medical vanguard is working as intended right now in regards to nanite health monitor. When a science officer deploys nanite health monitor, it remains active until you start to take damage, or until you use another science heal. In many ways, it acts as a slight barrier to instant one hit kills. Now elite fleet armor, that could prove to be a problem considering how difficult it is to proc the fleet armor proc on a science officer, let alone a science officer with +50% shield resistance. Unlike the normal nanite health monitor, which is easily stripped.

    Tholian Shattering Harmonics 3 Piece bonus - The perception bonus on this set, +500 is far to high. Akin to the Emergency Power to Auxiliary bug that was just patched, the three piece bonus offers +500 perception (i.e. perception up to 131 meters, there isn't a ground PvP map that large) for 20 seconds with a 35 second cooldown (also +20% dodge, avoidance, run speed, and melee damage). Cloak becomes useless whenever this set is employed in ground PvP. +100 perception would be more than enough to see though even covert.
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
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    nulonunulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Disagree with you about medical vanguard as it relates to nanite health monitor. The description for medical vanguard is pretty clear in that its supposed to last only 4 seconds and when casting on a teammate it counts down correctly. This may be a moot argument anyway if (hopefully) it gets reworked to be about hit points and not shields which I believe bort had said.

    As for shattering harmonics, well just don't cloak! :P. Seriously though, what would be an acceptable range to see a cloaker from it? Since it requires direct sight, as the mini-map is disabled the range may not matter. For example; cloaked player under the bridge in shanty town won't be seen by shattering harmonics user if they aren't looking that direction. A cloaker could still surprise a shattering harmonics user around a corner in arena. My point being regardless of the range the shattering harmonics user has to either go snooping around for a cloaker or react fast enough to debuff them so the team can see them too. As you stated there are no maps as big as the range of perception it seems to give(Otha notwithstanding) so what difference will it really make to nerf it unless it was reduced to being almost useless?
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    mrkollinsmrkollins Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I will not put Shattering Harmonics in the list until further testing, it's the only ability able to counter Cloak in an effective way. Besides, you need to wear the weak armor, so any Cloaker Hunter is a weak target.
    Division Hispana
    www.divisionhispana.com
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    majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    nulonu wrote: »

    As for shattering harmonics, well just don't cloak! :P. Seriously though, what would be an acceptable range to see a cloaker from it? Since it requires direct sight, as the mini-map is disabled the range may not matter. For example; cloaked player under the bridge in shanty town won't be seen by shattering harmonics user if they aren't looking that direction. A cloaker could still surprise a shattering harmonics user around a corner in arena. My point being regardless of the range the shattering harmonics user has to either go snooping around for a cloaker or react fast enough to debuff them so the team can see them too. As you stated there are no maps as big as the range of perception it seems to give(Otha notwithstanding) so what difference will it really make to nerf it unless it was reduced to being almost useless?
    On the flipside, the shattering harmonics user also has +20% dodge, avoidance, runspeed, and melee damage. With that they can easily outrun even a decloaked operative. Take ghost ship for an example. There are 8 doorways where an ambush would be feasible. There are just two problems. First, you need the other person to be unaware of your presence, and second, you need to speed to catch your target. Shattering harmonics allows you to see anything anywhere in your line of sight, making it impossible to hide for long. Assuming you were able to lure someone though the doorway once and assuming you killed them, how many more times would that work before they become permanently immune to that trick? Eventually they are going to know to use a speed boost to get though the door fast, or debuff the doors before entry.

    In space PvP you don't have bird of prey running from asteroid to asteroid hiding from ships. They merely fly up to the target, buff up, and attempt their alpha. There are brief close range stealth detection, but nothing that allows you to see targets anywhere on the map. When cryptic made an error with the current EPtA it received huge amounts feedback requesting a fix. +100 perception would be +10 meters of stealth detection on covert cloakers and +35 meters on non-covert cloakers. If you get any higher than +100 it starts to get rather unreasonable. +150 perception would give 25 meters of stealth detection vs covert and 52 meters vs non-covert.
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
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    shailatshailat Member Posts: 478 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Federation engineer Orbital Strike:The targeting recticle that shows up on the floor prior to Orbital Strike landing has disappeared for federation characters. Oddly, KDF orbital strike still shows normally. This was reported on Tribble before Legacy of Romulus went live but wasn't addressed.

    Here is a link to the Bug report forum reporting the bug about the Orb Strike Circle missing

    There are also pictures showing what we mean in case cryptic will go and say that this ability is working as intended when it is indeed not

    Orbital strike IMPACT circle missing - pvp issue.
    ogew7.jpg
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    solarstreaksolarstreak Member Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Teammate health bars in the team status window are now decently covered up by the buffs they are using. The more buffs they have up the harder they're current health status is to see.

    Please resize the team status window and place buffs BELOW each teammate's health bar. Not half covering it..makes it a pain to be team medic, where its your job to watch those health bars.
    Selun'x Alien Sci - Zarza Reman Tac
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    nulonunulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    mrkollins wrote: »
    Well it's time to put this up again.

    Most of the unfortunate problems with the launch of LoR have been resolved so I can assume that the team is not longer under complete pressure :P.

    We have a new brand of bugs to fix and the older ones as well.
    I actually think medical vanguard is working as intended right now in regards to nanite health monitor. When a science officer deploys nanite health monitor, it remains active until you start to take damage, or until you use another science heal. In many ways, it acts as a slight barrier to instant one hit kills. Now elite fleet armor, that could prove to be a problem considering how difficult it is to proc the fleet armor proc on a science officer, let alone a science officer with +50% shield resistance. Unlike the normal nanite health monitor, which is easily stripped.

    Tholian Shattering Harmonics 3 Piece bonus - The perception bonus on this set, +500 is far to high. Akin to the Emergency Power to Auxiliary bug that was just patched, the three piece bonus offers +500 perception (i.e. perception up to 131 meters, there isn't a ground PvP map that large) for 20 seconds with a 35 second cooldown (also +20% dodge, avoidance, run speed, and melee damage). Cloak becomes useless whenever this set is employed in ground PvP. +100 perception would be more than enough to see though even covert.
    On the flipside, the shattering harmonics user also has +20% dodge, avoidance, runspeed, and melee damage. With that they can easily outrun even a decloaked operative. Take ghost ship for an example. There are 8 doorways where an ambush would be feasible.There are just two problems. First, you need the other person to be unaware of your presence, and second, you need to speed to catch your target. Shattering harmonics allows you to see anything anywhere in your line of sight, making it impossible to hide for long. Assuming you were able to lure someone though the doorway once and assuming you killed them, how many more times would that work before they become permanently immune to that trick? Eventually they are going to know to use a speed boost to get though the door fast, or debuff the doors before entry.

    I concede that point from a 1v1 perspective it would make it very difficult for a cloaker to hide for long but even if the range was reduced to say 30m it would have no difference compared to what it does now. Like I said above, unless it was nerfed into uselessness any change wouldn't matter. It's also entirely possible that this set was intended to give Otha farmers the chance to see some cloak ganker coming from a long way off.

    In space PvP you don't have bird of prey running from asteroid to asteroid hiding from ships. They merely fly up to the target, buff up, and attempt their alpha. There are brief close range stealth detection, but nothing that allows you to see targets anywhere on the map. When cryptic made an error with the current EPtA it received huge amounts feedback requesting a fix. +100 perception would be +10 meters of stealth detection on covert cloakers and +35 meters on non-covert cloakers. If you get any higher than +100 it starts to get rather unreasonable. +150 perception would give 25 meters of stealth detection vs covert and 52 meters vs non-covert.

    Apples and oranges. You can't cycle 2 copies of shattering harmonics for 100% uptime and EPTA in no way disadvantages a player in terms of damage resistance and even perception (no mini-map)the way running the strike force set does.
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    tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    WM is fine, if not a little underpowered because of the 1 minute immunity that it triggers upon expiration and is refreshed on reapplication.

    Transphasic Bomb for Romulan characters is not auto-detonating on enemy proximity. Behavior for Federation characters seems unchanged.

    Willpower did get nerfed indeed. Stuns now last about 2 seconds as opposed to less than one.

    As for Tholian Shattering Harmonics set bonus: perhaps the huge perception bonus is intended since the armor itself is quite weak.
    U.S.S. Eastgate Photo Wall
    STO Screenshot Archive

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    mrkollinsmrkollins Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    It's kinda odd the way that the Transphasic Bomb behaves, last night doing a full round of Ground STF's with my Engy the Bomb did not self detonate even once against NPCs, but against Players it keeps self detonating, really weird.
    Division Hispana
    www.divisionhispana.com
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    mrkollinsmrkollins Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    From the Tribble Patch notes:
    - Players are now able to use a Hypospray to escape the Tholian Drone Stasis Beam.
    - This change affects both the reprogrammed drone pets from the Nukara Strikeforce Reputation as well as the Tholian stasis drone.

    One less thing to worry about.
    Division Hispana
    www.divisionhispana.com
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    nulonunulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Still no fix for the Orbital Strike though unfortunately.
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    mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    nulonu wrote: »
    Still no fix for the Orbital Strike though unfortunately.

    I think it's a case of 'one step at a time'.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
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    suuperduudesuuperduude Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    mrkollins wrote: »
    From the Tribble Patch notes:



    One less thing to worry about.

    Eh. Given the price for just 2 of them and they are consumable, the novelty seems to have worn off really quick.
    --
    Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
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    suuperduudesuuperduude Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    nulonu wrote: »
    Still no fix for the Orbital Strike though unfortunately.

    You hafta wonder how they broke it just for Fed players.....
    --
    Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
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    johnharrisonloljohnharrisonlol Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Eh. Given the price for just 2 of them and they are consumable, the novelty seems to have worn off really quick.

    Yeah I can count 4 times a certain "player" has come at me with this thing tailing him. All 4 times he was dead by my hand :P just as the dumb drone put it's stasis on me but alas nobody was around to fire on me. I love it when I make them waste their dilthium on me for a poor result. There is no greater satisfaction!

    So before you dumb noobs think those stasis drones are gonna make you hot ish in ground pvp perhaps you need to learn how to fight and get your pets and objects to work for you! After all they are just dumb npc's! But in some cases smarter than some of the players I see!
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    johnharrisonloljohnharrisonlol Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    You hafta wonder how they broke it just for Fed players.....

    Simple answer 90 percent of the ground pvp matches that pop are fvf. Yeah this is a sarcastic answer but I am tired of omega cloaking engy's lighting orbitals so you can't see their toon's animation. I can actually live with the invisible orbital since i am smart enough to check for the player doing it at all times. But when the noob exploiters omega cloak themselves to light it off. Well let's just say my response in the future will be justified spawn camping! Remember everyone can and does have covert now. And no I don't intend on gimping myself with no energy damage resist and a sword to counter this tactic with a ill thought out and horribly built reputation set!
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    suuperduudesuuperduude Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Right now my biggest problems are the willpower nerf and clickable. There are so many holds in this game that even if the tray didn't gray out and you could use that ability, the 4 min cooldown makes it worthless. If Cryptic could make the traits work, the resist traits could all be passive.
    --
    Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
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    johnharrisonloljohnharrisonlol Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    ??. Item: Tier 3 Nukara Passive Cryo Immobilizer
    Issue: No immunity timer or resistance to keep these from stacking. And apparently any heal you are using just as one of these procs takes effect doesn't finish and you lose the rest of it!

    Side note: Tactical's can easily obtain 35 percent chance with target optics and strike team up now with the strike team specialist trait. Heck might as well eat some chag grass for another 2 percent chance. Add another 6 percent chance to a crth X 3 fast firing rate weapon and a tact can easily take down anything with a chain of immobilizing procs. Even the passives 20 percent chance will eventually catch up with the target and by the time strike team trait and target optics wears off the target already has a few stacked cryo immobilizers on him but in all likelihood is dead.

    Suggested fix: Along with the Omega gun's immobilize proc I think it's time for immobilize to get the straight immunity timer it needs of about 10 seconds. Also eliminate it's ability to stack with any other immobilize proc.

    Status: Not sure if it is really broken or simply overpowered but I have a feeling once everyone hits tier 3 it is going to be a massive QQ bomb.
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    nulonunulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Agree with above post. Cryo immobilizer is silly OP especially since the other tier option is next to useless. At the very least, hold break abilities (adrenal booster, hypo, stubborn) should work against it. As of right there's no way to break the hold I'm aware of.
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    mrkollinsmrkollins Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    So news DOFFS are coming, thoughts?
    • Biochemist (Ground): Your Nanite Health Monitor has a chance to have a number of additional charges.

    • Armory Officer (Ground): When using Stealth Module, increases the duration of the Stealth Ambush damage bonus effect.
    • Explosives Expert (Ground): Adds a chance for Disable Weapons to your Chroniton Mine Barrier.
    • Quartermaster (Ground): Your deployed Cover Shield gives bonus Resistance Rating to nearby allies.
    • Biochemist (Ground): Your Sonic Pulse now additionally roots all targets hit for a short duration.
    • Security Officer (Ground): Increases the bonus damage of Ambush by 100%, but all bonus damage from this ability is now dealt as Damage over Time.
    • Diagnostic Engineer (Ground): Your Weapons Malfunction has a chance to chain to nearby targets.
    • Damage Control Engineer (Ground): Your Quick Fix now adds additional bonus Resistance Rating to its target.
    • Assault Squad Officer (Ground): Your Sweeping Strikes now have a chance to cause an Electrical Damage over Time effect to your target.
    • Hazard System Officer (Ground): Your Fuse Armor has a chance to deal double damage.
    Division Hispana
    www.divisionhispana.com
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    mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    mrkollins wrote: »
    So news DOFFS are coming, thoughts?

    A LOT of buffs to engineers on the ground.

    Especially the Equipment Diagnostics kit and Enemy Neutralization
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
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    johnharrisonloljohnharrisonlol Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    mrkollins wrote: »
    So news DOFFS are coming, thoughts?

    Biochemist (Ground): Your Nanite Health Monitor has a chance to have a number of additional charges.

    This doff is an amazing compliment to the med kit and 3 doctor doffs that boost your hp. The very rare of this doff is certainly worth replacing the stimulant cooldown doff and adds 4 more charges to nanite health monitor. Great for the dedicated healer!

    Armory Officer (Ground): When using Stealth Module, increases the duration of the Stealth Ambush damage bonus effect.

    I am guessing this applies to the 5 second damage boost cloakers get after decloaking. But in the end the melee crit chance and severity doffs for the powerful lunge are the best option for the operative kit. Either way not sure why the idiot devs felt the need to give cloakers more potential damage. As if they don't have enough. DERP!

    Explosives Expert (Ground): Adds a chance for Disable Weapons to your Chroniton Mine Barrier.

    Very nice option as it is the first set of doffs for the enemy neuter kit. People trying to break the mine barrier in arena maps will now be forced to use that power cell. These can also stack 3 doffs and I am pretty sure the chance will be based of each mine as well. Best doffs in this release almost make me want to get out of my equip tech kit when I roll my engy. In any case these won't effect me one bit since I can simply switch to shooter mode and clear the mines with my grenade though! LOL

    Quartermaster (Ground): Your deployed Cover Shield gives bonus Resistance Rating to nearby allies.

    A cover shield doff all I can say is LMFAO! Seriously. More damage resist at high diminishing returns! Sorry these will be in the bargain bin on the exchange.

    Biochemist (Ground): Your Sonic Pulse now additionally roots all targets hit for a short duration.

    The physics kit already contains grav shift for the root. Sonic pulse does knockback and a slow and with this doff will add an extra root but again I can't see the smart physicist giving up their biologist tric scan doff which pushes a targets radiation and fire resist well below zero up for the least used power in the physicist kit. Ultimately another FAIL doff. No pvper will replace their stimulant cooldown doff with this.

    Security Officer (Ground): Increases the bonus damage of Ambush by 100%, but all bonus damage from this ability is now dealt as Damage over Time.

    Stacking 3 of these doffs for a 300 percent damage boost even as a DOT is what is gonna finish off ground pvp for good. All fire team and operative users are gonna rule all with these doffs. Unless I am missing something in the description or not getting the complete picture say bye bye to ground pvp for all other classes and bye bye to it forever. I suppose it depends on what the dot ticks actually do but I can already tell these are gonna be the final nail in the coffin for ground pvp.

    Diagnostic Engineer (Ground): Your Weapons Malfunction has a chance to chain to nearby targets.

    Depends on the proc chance but stacking 3 purples like other doffs in this class usually produces great results. Another great engy doff choice.

    Damage Control Engineer (Ground): Your Quick Fix now adds additional bonus Resistance Rating to its target.

    GARBAGE!

    Assault Squad Officer (Ground): Your Sweeping Strikes now have a chance to cause an Electrical Damage over Time effect to your target.

    Depends on how much damage it produces but the close combat kit is nonviable for tough matches in pvp as trying to stick on a target just to get some kicks in usually gets you killed. In any case melee crit and severity doffs are needed for use with this kit and these will become exchange clutter.

    Hazard System Officer (Ground): Your Fuse Armor has a chance to deal double damage.

    You can only use one hazard system officer doff and with the selection of other engy doffs this one will have zero room in the engy's active roster.
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    mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013

    Explosives Expert (Ground): Adds a chance for Disable Weapons to your Chroniton Mine Barrier.

    Very nice option as it is the first set of doffs for the enemy neuter kit. People trying to break the mine barrier in arena maps will now be forced to use that power cell. These can also stack 3 doffs and I am pretty sure the chance will be based of each mine as well. Best doffs in this release almost make me want to get out of my equip tech kit when I roll my engy. In any case these won't effect me one bit since I can simply switch to shooter mode and clear the mines with my grenade though! LOL

    Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I thought that Explosives Experts were only one?
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
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    johnharrisonloljohnharrisonlol Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I thought that Explosives Experts were only one?

    My mistake I though cause the quantum mortar doffs only had 20 percent proc chance rate they were a stackable class my mistake.
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    mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    My mistake I though cause the quantum mortar doffs only had 20 percent proc chance rate they were a stackable class my mistake.

    Np there. Heh, I'd love to have stackable Explosives Experts and summon 7 Quantum Mortar III's at a time. :D



    Anywho, I do agree with you on that Ambush DOFF. Tacs can do some ridiculous things on the ground in terms of pure damage, and now with this super-DoT from it instead...insane.

    There are many many things I'm already thinking of to go with this DOFF, and abuse the hell outta it.

    Even if the DoT's total damage is 300% over the course of the effect, we could still easily look at 500 damage ticks or something. Because a tac who knows his stuff on the ground is gonna be running around with a huge amount of crit at the get-go, and so a huge portion of the time, these crits are gonna be on these DoTs.

    A dedicated self-healing Sci could probably just outlive one person doing that, maybe an engy could do the same. But two or more...no way, there's not enough resist and heals to handle it. Eventually the person would get overwhelmed.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
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    zeratkzeratk Member Posts: 409
    edited June 2013
    Assault Squad Officer (Ground): Your Sweeping Strikes now have a chance to cause an Electrical Damage over Time effect to your target.

    Electrical Damage...hum? There seems to be a lot rubbing if you perform sweeping strikes....


    btw....it does not make anything better, concerning ground balancing, if you throw more and more stuff into ground combat....all for the $$$.
    This is Crypticverse... :mad:
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    nulonunulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    zeratk wrote: »
    Electrical Damage...hum? There seems to be a lot rubbing if you perform sweeping strikes....




    My uniform always has a lot of static cling. I've tried everything! Maybe Starfleet officers all rub their feet on carpet before they beam into matches. :rolleyes: Seriously it will probably be no more effective then the embassy doff that adds it to stasis field. In other words totally useless even if sweeping strikes was a viable kit on ground.
    I hope now that the devs might be getting a chance to catch their breath after this massive release they can address some of the major problems here before creating new ones :P
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    borgresearcherborgresearcher Member Posts: 451 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    engineers that are the best class for ground pvp get the best doffs, tacs 2 doffs, and scis a stupid root ? im starting to believe that devs are noobs at pvping
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    guriphuguriphu Member Posts: 494 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    1: the devs are and have always been completely ignorant of pvp
    2: if you aren't a tac, you lose, period, given the new security officer doffs. No-one can tank as much damage as they can put out, now. Provided the tac uses an AoE weapon you can't even clear the ambush DoT by putting your battle strategies on a teammate, becuase then you just die instead.

    It's a good thing I've already made my peace with leaving STO pvp forever, because it's over.
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