... It IS an exploit but I won't presume to tell another player they should or should'nt play like that...
It's technically not up to you me, or anyone else in this thread. Cryptic is the one that needs to decide what is and what isn't an exploit and then enforce it.
It's technically not up to you me, or anyone else in this thread. Cryptic is the one that needs to decide what is and what isn't an exploit and then enforce it.
They are allowed that right but there are MANY cryptic created missions that also do exactly what these AFK grinders do, but nobody complains about the cryptic missions having NPC's drop loot when killed by a players BOFF's.
They are allowed that right but there are MANY cryptic created missions that also do exactly what these AFK grinders do, but nobody complains about the cryptic missions having NPC's drop loot when killed by a players BOFF's.
They are allowed that right but there are MANY cryptic created missions that also do exactly what these AFK grinders do, but nobody complains about the cryptic missions having NPC's drop loot when killed by a players BOFF's.
There are no Cryptic mission where you send your boffs to fight while you afk. You get loot from boff kills because you are fighting and they are essential equipment in this regard. This is an absurd false equivalency on its face.
1. Go back to the 1,480 diliithium payout for IOR and give it a one hour cooldown. Change loot rates to be similar to STF's, 3-4 minor drops and one level appropriate item dropped on completion of the mission. Generally meaning you're gonna get a couple of batteries, one halfway decent console, and an blue-purple Engine/Deflector/Shield. Ya'll get the gist of what I'm talking about.
The problem with this is that rewards based on mission completion still give the advantage to whatever mission is the shortest while still giving rewards. Even if there was something like "only selected story missions will get rewards", the shortest one will be found and played repeatedly.
City of Heroes had a pretty dramatic example of this happening, which is probably part of why they shifted to a more time-sensitive reward structure.
2. Take all fleet mark rewards out of IOR and put them in STF's.
If this was done without also boosting the mark rewards from Nukara Prime and Defera Invasion missions, I would be very said and cry.
3. Change the rating system so that to leave any rating of any kind, you must also leave a small critique, some character limit of two sentences or more. People aren't likely to do this for grinders all the time, and allow them just to leave no rating at all. We'd then perhaps have a situation where the top rated missions and the most played are not mixed up as easily. It's not foolproof, but it might work better then the way it is now.
C'mon, don't be so obtuse. EVERY ground mission can be played like an AFK mission. Every one of them pays out on NPC death. The only difference between the cryptic missions and the foundry ones is that in the cryptic missions the player has to walk to the next encounter.
WAIT !!!
I GOT IT !!!
Cryptic need to ensure the player moves before the next spawn.
C'mon, don't be so obtuse. EVERY ground mission can be played like an AFK mission. Every one of them pays out on NPC death. The only difference between the cryptic missions and the foundry ones is that in the cryptic missions the player has to walk to the next encounter.
So a player can't really go AFK. Thus, they can't be played like an AFK mission. A player has to walk and constantly set way point, and then deal with the boss.
1) this is getting far off topic
2)In a game where all classes are pet classes, the argument is silly. Unless you want to say the game fromthe tutorial onward is a lie.
3) Do you have anything constructive to add? Or this thread going to derail into another purity crusade?
Personally I think making the UI moddable, if its too much work or money for cryptic to make search worthwhile, would be awesome. You guys could even make a "Death To Grinders" mod where you'd never, ever have to see one in the Foundry. I'd kill for one that looped the TOS bridge whenever I was in space, but that's a different topic.
I'd much rather see an AFK'er playing a foundry mission than see them in an STF or in Starbase Incursion ruining someones chances for better rewards while they cower at the edge of the map. They still have to play for 15 minutes to get anything and have a 1/2 hr cooldown.
Cryptic knew this would happen and knew people would play the shortest mission for the biggest reward that's how life is in general. Cryptic didn't think hey lets make a 30 minute cooldown and people will play a mission that takes an hour. Cryptic knew people would play missions that were shorter hence the cooldown. I'm sure before any changes were implemented it was decided that getting 960 dilithium and 50 fleet marks every 30 minutes was acceptable and was going to happen in the most efficient way possible. This also is inline with the 30 minute cooldown on an 8 minute avg round of Starbase Incursion as well as other fleet mark missions. The dilithium 960 every 30 minutes is also inline with what dstahl has said the amount of time it should take a person to earn a days dilithium (roughly 4 hours.) Most daily dilithium missions reward the same if not more for less time.
If someone chooses to cower in the corner for 15 minutes it's there time to waste. I personally prefer not to be bored when I'm playing a game but thats me and not everybody. We don't define exploits, the game designers do. With the cooldown and the loot drops adjusted I don't see anything working other than as intended... I see someone spending the same minimum amount of time as everyone else to get the same reward and subject to the same cooldown.
So a player can't really go AFK. Thus, they can't be played like an AFK mission. A player has to walk and constantly set way point, and then deal with the boss.
Your analogy is flawed.
As flawed as it is WE just solved the AFK Grinder problem.
Only a couple more and we're golden.
Mission rewards:
As game mission rewards don't change regardless of how much time is spent playing a mission I don't think 'time' should be tied to rewards at all, BUT in the interest of fairness what do you think of a reward limit based on time (length of mission) ?
As game mission rewards don't change regardless of how much time is spent playing a mission I don't think 'time' should be tied to rewards at all, BUT in the interest of fairness what do you think of a reward limit based on time (length of mission) ?
EDIT: on further thought, I disagree. It is always overlooked that (and this is vastlyimportant): the missions you prefercan qualify for spotlight and combat missions never will. It ensures that quality is met --and I think that is entirely appropriate bar for authors to reach for, to get the fame they crave so, so much.
Otherwise, you guys will be up in arms yet again at the epic grind missions that are 5 hours long and rake in tons of loot.
EDIT: on further thought, I disagree. It is always overlooked that (and this is vastlyimportant): the missions you prefercan qualify for spotlight and combat missions never will. It ensures that quality is met --and I think that is entirely appropriate bar for authors to reach for, to get the fame they crave so, so much.
Otherwise, you guys will be up in arms yet again at the epic grind missions that are 5 hours long and rake in tons of loot.
I was going to suggest 15 minute blocks up to 1 hour, rounded down, @ 480 dilith and 3 drops per block. Of course the current method of average mission time as calculated by cryptic still would apply, so a player who took 1 hour to complete a cryptic calculated 30 minute mission would be awarded 960 dilith (or equivalent EC) and the authors dead NPC's would be awarding the 6 drops. The author would be responsible for ensuring there is opportunity to collect those drops.
Any mission that was calculated to be over 1 hour runtime would be awarding 1 hour, and if the mission ran WAY over 1 hour the author could split/snip/rewrite at his option.
That should put every mission on the same footing rewardwise.
I was going to suggest 15 minute blocks up to 1 hour, rounded down @ 480 dilith and 3 drops per block. Of course the current method of average mission time as calculated by cryptic still would apply, so a player who took 1 hour to complete a cryptic calculated 30 minute mission would be awarded 960 dilith (or equivalent EC) and the authors dead NPC's would be awarding the 6 drops.
Any mission that was calculated to be over 1 hour runtime would be awarding 1 hour, and if the mission ran WAY over 1 hour the author could split/snip/rewrite at his option.
Its stilla nerf and it can still be gamed, and again, you guys will be throwing fits and we'll have to have another boring mega thread. So Cryptic wouldspend all the time and money trying to fix something only to be "broken" (or as I see it "fixed"!) again the next day. And I really don't understand this obsession on loot nerfs: 1) ground drops suck and 2) there is a hard cap on drops if you go into space. Isn't that enough?
What is the ultimate endgame you are tring to effect here? Please be honest (or as honest as you can be on this forum).
Its stilla nerf and it can still be gamed, and again, you guys will be throwing fits and we'll have to have another boring mega thread. So Cryptic wouldspend all the time and money trying to fix something only to be "broken" (or as I see it "fixed"!) again the next day. And I really don't understand this obsession on loot nerfs: 1) ground drops suck and 2) there is a hard cap on drops if you go into space. Isn't that enough?
What is the ultimate endgame you are tring to effect here? Please be honest (or as honest as you can be on this forum).
It's all I could come up with as I have no experience in this. I don't use the foundry for farming, cryptic's own missions are better for that.
It's all I could come up with as I have no experience in this. I don't use the foundry for farming, cryptic's own missions are better for that.
Hehe, well my point is 99% of the time the "solution" is going to be worse then the problem ever was.
So how do you feel about moddable UIs? I've been trying to get a discussion on it and people seem to just prefer attacking stuff. I had fun with mods in ********, and I think it would be not just a boon to customfoundry uis but the whole game- players will develop incredible stuff in less time than it takes the devs.
(lol, world of "battleweaving" is censored? Really?)
C'mon, don't be so obtuse. EVERY ground mission can be played like an AFK mission. Every one of them pays out on NPC death. The only difference between the cryptic missions and the foundry ones is that in the cryptic missions the player has to walk to the next encounter.
WAIT !!!
I GOT IT !!!
Cryptic need to ensure the player moves before the next spawn.
FOUNDRY FIXXED !!!
I'm with Stoner. You have to do stuff in Cryptic missions. Sure you can leave your Boffs to do.... MOST of the work, but in most cryptic ground missions you'll lol fail if you don't participate.
The UI and the rest of the game is easily moddable. At least it was when I did that quite some time ago. Allowing modding is not in Cryptic's interest. There is a part in the EULA that states modding bad. Oddly enough, Cryptic didn't actually crack down on it except for one particularly over zealous fellow who left since. It was the playerbase that really killed it.
On the other hand, why do you want to mod the UI for? Can you describe what do you want to see, with what kind of data?
The UI and the rest of the game is easily moddable. At least it was when I did that quite some time ago. Allowing modding is not in Cryptic's interest. There is a part in the EULA that states modding bad. Oddly enough, Cryptic didn't actually crack down on it except for one particularly over zealous fellow who left since. It was the playerbase that really killed it.
On the other hand, why do you want to mod the UI for? Can you describe what do you want to see, with what kind of data?
Well not really for me. Im trying to keep positive suggestions going. There is so much negativity and anger, its like short missions slept withtheir boy/girlfriends!
If Cryptic doesnt feel its profitable to investin better search, maybe opening up mods would get their problem fixed.
Personally, theres a lot Id fix with mods (omg the mail!), but I don't have a specfic problem with the Foundry UI as I can dig up whatever im looking for easy (although I hate the lag of it loading everything every single time). I still think it's a good idea to give the categorical treatment toentries, but if that's not in budget, open up mods. Someone will eventually make one thatwill filter out all missions with "grind" and "combat" in them and that should make those guys happy.
I'm going to take an odd stance for a story heavy Foundry author:
Take the grinders seriously.
As someone into marketing, every desire is exploitable. Grinding is a desire some players have.
Now, what's needed is to split grinders from stories. (Note: talking about legitimate grinders and not exploits.)
My suggestion is unorthodox:
Let players flag their mission as a grinder OR a story.
Have grinder wrapper provide more FLAT dilithium reward because that's what grinders want.
Have story missions award 10% less dilithium or so but have story based thematic rewards. My suggestion is a grab bag with the Lore Datachips, themed DOffs, and items with cool names. Maybe themed BOffs. And maybe a costume unlocked piece by piece (boots, gloves, shoulders, etc. unlocked in pieces.)
The idea is to lure grinders towards the content they will enjoy and lure story seekers towards content they will enjoy.
As long as someone is PLAYING (and not exploiting) then good.
And dealing with the desire to exploit, I think the solution there is more "exploration" (in a game way, not necessarily a Star Trek way) that rewards playing with content in creative ways, on the order of the hidden weapons in Coliseum. The more of that there is in the game and the less straightforward and replicatable it is, the more the exploit urge will be channeled into productive activities. To an extent, things like No Win Scenario do this... and it would be awesome if the Foundry could allow some kind of easter egg gameplay/placement and optional pathing, which I realize is a long way out.
Have story missions award 10% less dilithium or so but have story based thematic rewards. My suggestion is a grab bag with the Lore Datachips, themed DOffs, and items with cool names. Maybe themed BOffs. And maybe a costume unlocked piece by piece (boots, gloves, shoulders, etc. unlocked in pieces.)
That sounds kind oflike the Foundry rep grind they've talked about (the rewards part seems similar to those grind to unlock to grind items in the other reps).
I was going to suggest 15 minute blocks up to 1 hour, rounded down, @ 480 dilith and 3 drops per block. Of course the current method of average mission time as calculated by cryptic still would apply, so a player who took 1 hour to complete a cryptic calculated 30 minute mission would be awarded 960 dilith (or equivalent EC) and the authors dead NPC's would be awarding the 6 drops. The author would be responsible for ensuring there is opportunity to collect those drops.
This is exactly the sort of thing I'm hoping for, pretty much. Whether you do story-heavy or story-light, you aren't penalized for it. There are a few points where I might differ though...
-Note that someone doing really heavy grinding is probably doing multiple characters. Thus the current rate of return for someone pushing the limits is closer to 960 dilithium every 20 minutes. (15 of course the IOR minimum +5 for missions not running precisely that long, the time to switch characters, select missions, etc.) You may or may not consider this higher than it should be, but it's pretty much what it is right now.
-I'm not sure controlling drops that way is ideal, and it also sounds like it would require major changes from the way the system currently operates, which could be hard to manage.
-Beyond that, I'm not convinced that reducing the number of items entering the market is really a great idea. The increased supply of mid-high tier equipment strikes me as a good thing.
-What about inflation? I'd suggest bringing down the vendor price of certain items, and adding some "nice, but not vital" EC sinks to the game. As things stand, there's not much to use EC for, and that's the real problem.
Improving the Foundry UI would be great no matter what happens. In some ways I still think it's better than the equivalent in CoH, but... it can be kind of weird. (Like, why does what I enter for "title" sometimes get searched for in the description as well, and sometimes not?)
I like being able to get dilithium from good story missions. I don't grind all day or often meet my refinement limit, but I like to put resources into my fleet projects and buy special gear. Foundry missions are something I like to play, and so it's great that I can get good rewards from them.
I wouldn't want the reward to go back to a daily, but some sort of limit or a slightly longer cool-down wouldn't affect me. As for dropped loot, I don't play for that anyway.
I don't really think that a massive change in the rewards available is needed. Good rewards will attract all sorts of players, including those who will find ways to cut corners. I definitely don't think we need to 'sour' the rewards and chase away players. Cryptic already shows that they intend to smash exploits. If players want to fight tons of ships and get their drops, that's fine with me. But Cryptic will continue to stomp on 'shortcuts', and I agree with that.
Take a look at my Foundry missions! Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
This is exactly the sort of thing I'm hoping for, pretty much. Whether you do story-heavy or story-light, you aren't penalized for it. There are a few points where I might differ though...
-Note that someone doing really heavy grinding is probably doing multiple characters. Thus the current rate of return for someone pushing the limits is closer to 960 dilithium every 20 minutes. (15 of course the IOR minimum +5 for missions not running precisely that long, the time to switch characters, select missions, etc.) You may or may not consider this higher than it should be, but it's pretty much what it is right now.
Ya, I didn't want to go overboard with rewards as I normally do the Pi Canis sortes in about 15 minutes for 960 dilith (I guess it's about average) but they award many more tech drops.
-I'm not sure controlling drops that way is ideal, and it also sounds like it would require major changes from the way the system currently operates, which could be hard to manage.
I was thinking the drops would be allotments that the mission could award, be it NPC's killed in mission or a loot bag on completion, but with author control of killable NPC's they could choose when the appropriate time the award would be given, else the mission gets a lower player rating, or (gasp) flagged for not awarding whats expected.
-Beyond that, I'm not convinced that reducing the number of items entering the market is really a great idea. The increased supply of mid-high tier equipment strikes me as a good thing.
of course the awards could be adjusted by cryptic, or the player could choose to do longer missions.
-What about inflation? I'd suggest bringing down the vendor price of certain items, and adding some "nice, but not vital" EC sinks to the game. As things stand, there's not much to use EC for, and that's the real problem.
Improving the Foundry UI would be great no matter what happens. In some ways I still think it's better than the equivalent in CoH, but... it can be kind of weird. (Like, why does what I enter for "title" sometimes get searched for in the description as well, and sometimes not?)
-Morgan.
well, if enough players press cryptic to tweek the ui they could do something. I'm comfortable with it as-is but it doesn't mean it couldn't be better.
Otherwise, you guys will be up in arms yet again at the epic grind missions that are 5 hours long and rake in tons of loot.
There would never be a 5 hour grind mission, and if there was it wouldn't be successful. Longer mission length is generally undesirable, all things being equal (even if the rewards scaled). It raises the bar too high, because a lot of people don't have enough time, and there's a greater chance of losing connection or having to quit before the end.
The only reason some story missions are longer is due to an unfortunate side effect of needing more time to tell a comprehensive story. It's not optimal for rewards, even if rewards scaled with time. Right now rewards don't scale so they are doubly penalized.
Shorter missions will always be favored, to some extent, even if rewards scaled properly with time, but that little advantage can be overcome if the longer mission is good enough. We just need the reward to scale with length for fairness.
On the other stuff, Cryptic is going to have to decide if they want the Foundry used to grind for resources. I think they should add other methods that are better than the Foundry to the game, and discourage the use of the Foundry for those purposes. The UI can still be split into Story and Combat, but just outright grinding is lame. That's up to them to decide though.
I wonder if DStahl is really going to read all this?
Youare notseeing "theft" ofyour previous audience, yousaw a mass increase into total audience forthe foundry itself. of which a sizable portion prefers the 15min bitesize adventure.
Actually, as a matter of fact with the way the UI current works, we're actually seeing a theft of our previous audience. The current structure of the UI means that the grind missions bury everything else, and it makes it harder for those who enjoy stories to find them. Too few actually understand the search option, and if they do, what will they search for? Unless they've played Foundry missions before and memorized some of their favorite authors they'll have no idea where to start.
That is why the UI changes are being suggested. Personally, I don't think it's enough, but it would be a major improvement.
I'll also state that if the combat missions were actually being rated on their merits, and not just "Easy way to complete the IOR! 5 stars!" then I'd be less annoyed. If someone made an epic war mission with a lot of different encounters, even if it was nothing but combat, then that could be cool. But right now it would be rated below something that is just 25 random ship groups, because it would be less optimal for rewards.
On a side note, I could see something like that qualifying for the spotlight, too.
That's why the reward structure is bankrupt, in my opinion. It doesn't encourage playing of missions that are better, because the author has actually put time into them.
And, no, this really isn't a matter of opinion as to what's good either. If we just ripped the rewards out of the Foundry, the AFK grinders, for example, would disappear in a second. They're not being played because people actually enjoy them, anymore than the clickies. The idea that they are the best of the Foundry content, whether you desire story or combat, is ridiculous.
The current reward structure is favoring certain missions that most optimally meet the IOR requirements, resulting in some missions being rated highly just for that. That is one issue that definitely needs to be fixed. It's also why I say the problem is more than about Combat vs Story. It's also about the rewards encouraging the creation of a very narrow type of mission that is designed to optimize rewards, with other considerations secondary.
This whole problem could be solved if Cryptic would offer dilithium rewards and at least double the amount of FM for fleet actions, but then again some people here would start ranting that the grinder crowd just vanished from the foundry instead of playing their beloved story missions. The thing is, it all comes down to the ingame economy: Cryptic's missions do not offer enough rewards to make any reasonable progress in their starbase/embassy system. Project and upgrade demands are just insanely high. If you are playing KDF you also won't even get a chance of playing most of the fleet action missions because almost no one ever bothers queueing up for them, even before the changes IOR happened. I know a couple of KDF fleets which would have ceased to exist weeks ago if these changes wouldn't have happened. Now these players continue to play STO because they can make some progress in their starbase again and have something to look forward to.
Actually, as a matter of fact with the way the UI current works, we're actually seeing a theft of our previous audience. The current structure of the UI means that the grind missions bury everything else
Top 10 top rated (federation side) as of 2-6-13
1) grind
2) "story"
3) grind
4) "story"
5) "story"
6) "story"
7) "story"
8) stf training mission.. neither?
9) "story"
10) "story"
I'mnot seeing anything buried, in fact, thatlist makes your claims outdated/moot. Thatis 7or8/10 of the "front page" which isall that a person will look at initially. It is the prime realestate that appears to be the root cause of this entire brouhaha. Explain how this is not enough and that the system has not already corrected itself (or even intentionally)after the nerf?
Let me start off by saying that IOR is a mission I use 2-3 times a day that I am on.
I have enjoyed many types of foundry missions for a list of reasons. I have played several good story missions (stand alones and series) because I enjoyed the different stories. The drops and rewards were just perks.
I did the grind in the Foundry for ground kill trophies; there again the drops and rewards were just perks. (To bad I can't get the Federation trophy as a Fed toon).
Many out there turn to the Foundry's grind missions simply because they think it is the only way they can off-set the insanely high cost of the exchange. I can honestly say this because I was one of them before I came to the conclusion that the over inflated rates in the exchange was like a frivolous lawsuit against a total stranger.
Do I buy and sell items on the exchange? Yes, and yet I have yet to charge more than 20% below full value for any item I recieved from a drop.
Comments
It's technically not up to you me, or anyone else in this thread. Cryptic is the one that needs to decide what is and what isn't an exploit and then enforce it.
Foundry Mission Database
Check out my Foundry missions:
Standalone - The Great Escape - The Galaxy's Fair - Purity I: Of Denial - Return to Oblivion
Untitled Series - Duritanium Man - The Improbable Bulk - Commander Rihan
They are allowed that right but there are MANY cryptic created missions that also do exactly what these AFK grinders do, but nobody complains about the cryptic missions having NPC's drop loot when killed by a players BOFF's.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
My character Tsin'xing
There are no Cryptic mission where you send your boffs to fight while you afk. You get loot from boff kills because you are fighting and they are essential equipment in this regard. This is an absurd false equivalency on its face.
The problem with this is that rewards based on mission completion still give the advantage to whatever mission is the shortest while still giving rewards. Even if there was something like "only selected story missions will get rewards", the shortest one will be found and played repeatedly.
City of Heroes had a pretty dramatic example of this happening, which is probably part of why they shifted to a more time-sensitive reward structure.
If this was done without also boosting the mark rewards from Nukara Prime and Defera Invasion missions, I would be very said and cry.
... Ooorr you might have people who want to leave a rating but not a critique let their cat walk on their keyboard for a little while. I don't think it'd work all that well.
-Morgan.
C'mon, don't be so obtuse. EVERY ground mission can be played like an AFK mission. Every one of them pays out on NPC death. The only difference between the cryptic missions and the foundry ones is that in the cryptic missions the player has to walk to the next encounter.
WAIT !!!
I GOT IT !!!
Cryptic need to ensure the player moves before the next spawn.
FOUNDRY FIXXED !!!
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
So a player can't really go AFK. Thus, they can't be played like an AFK mission. A player has to walk and constantly set way point, and then deal with the boss.
Your analogy is flawed.
2)In a game where all classes are pet classes, the argument is silly. Unless you want to say the game fromthe tutorial onward is a lie.
3) Do you have anything constructive to add? Or this thread going to derail into another purity crusade?
Personally I think making the UI moddable, if its too much work or money for cryptic to make search worthwhile, would be awesome. You guys could even make a "Death To Grinders" mod where you'd never, ever have to see one in the Foundry. I'd kill for one that looped the TOS bridge whenever I was in space, but that's a different topic.
Cryptic knew this would happen and knew people would play the shortest mission for the biggest reward that's how life is in general. Cryptic didn't think hey lets make a 30 minute cooldown and people will play a mission that takes an hour. Cryptic knew people would play missions that were shorter hence the cooldown. I'm sure before any changes were implemented it was decided that getting 960 dilithium and 50 fleet marks every 30 minutes was acceptable and was going to happen in the most efficient way possible. This also is inline with the 30 minute cooldown on an 8 minute avg round of Starbase Incursion as well as other fleet mark missions. The dilithium 960 every 30 minutes is also inline with what dstahl has said the amount of time it should take a person to earn a days dilithium (roughly 4 hours.) Most daily dilithium missions reward the same if not more for less time.
If someone chooses to cower in the corner for 15 minutes it's there time to waste. I personally prefer not to be bored when I'm playing a game but thats me and not everybody. We don't define exploits, the game designers do. With the cooldown and the loot drops adjusted I don't see anything working other than as intended... I see someone spending the same minimum amount of time as everyone else to get the same reward and subject to the same cooldown.
As flawed as it is WE just solved the AFK Grinder problem.
Only a couple more and we're golden.
Mission rewards:
As game mission rewards don't change regardless of how much time is spent playing a mission I don't think 'time' should be tied to rewards at all, BUT in the interest of fairness what do you think of a reward limit based on time (length of mission) ?
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
A) 25% of the normal Xp and expertese rewards for a mission
C) Dilithium
D) Credits
for the spotlifhted missions
A doff of someone who was in the mission?
EDIT: on further thought, I disagree. It is always overlooked that (and this is vastlyimportant): the missions you prefercan qualify for spotlight and combat missions never will. It ensures that quality is met --and I think that is entirely appropriate bar for authors to reach for, to get the fame they crave so, so much.
Otherwise, you guys will be up in arms yet again at the epic grind missions that are 5 hours long and rake in tons of loot.
I was going to suggest 15 minute blocks up to 1 hour, rounded down, @ 480 dilith and 3 drops per block. Of course the current method of average mission time as calculated by cryptic still would apply, so a player who took 1 hour to complete a cryptic calculated 30 minute mission would be awarded 960 dilith (or equivalent EC) and the authors dead NPC's would be awarding the 6 drops. The author would be responsible for ensuring there is opportunity to collect those drops.
Any mission that was calculated to be over 1 hour runtime would be awarding 1 hour, and if the mission ran WAY over 1 hour the author could split/snip/rewrite at his option.
That should put every mission on the same footing rewardwise.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Its stilla nerf and it can still be gamed, and again, you guys will be throwing fits and we'll have to have another boring mega thread. So Cryptic wouldspend all the time and money trying to fix something only to be "broken" (or as I see it "fixed"!) again the next day. And I really don't understand this obsession on loot nerfs: 1) ground drops suck and 2) there is a hard cap on drops if you go into space. Isn't that enough?
What is the ultimate endgame you are tring to effect here? Please be honest (or as honest as you can be on this forum).
It's all I could come up with as I have no experience in this. I don't use the foundry for farming, cryptic's own missions are better for that.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Hehe, well my point is 99% of the time the "solution" is going to be worse then the problem ever was.
So how do you feel about moddable UIs? I've been trying to get a discussion on it and people seem to just prefer attacking stuff. I had fun with mods in ********, and I think it would be not just a boon to customfoundry uis but the whole game- players will develop incredible stuff in less time than it takes the devs.
(lol, world of "battleweaving" is censored? Really?)
My character Tsin'xing
The UI and the rest of the game is easily moddable. At least it was when I did that quite some time ago. Allowing modding is not in Cryptic's interest. There is a part in the EULA that states modding bad. Oddly enough, Cryptic didn't actually crack down on it except for one particularly over zealous fellow who left since. It was the playerbase that really killed it.
On the other hand, why do you want to mod the UI for? Can you describe what do you want to see, with what kind of data?
Well not really for me. Im trying to keep positive suggestions going. There is so much negativity and anger, its like short missions slept withtheir boy/girlfriends!
If Cryptic doesnt feel its profitable to investin better search, maybe opening up mods would get their problem fixed.
Personally, theres a lot Id fix with mods (omg the mail!), but I don't have a specfic problem with the Foundry UI as I can dig up whatever im looking for easy (although I hate the lag of it loading everything every single time). I still think it's a good idea to give the categorical treatment toentries, but if that's not in budget, open up mods. Someone will eventually make one thatwill filter out all missions with "grind" and "combat" in them and that should make those guys happy.
Take the grinders seriously.
As someone into marketing, every desire is exploitable. Grinding is a desire some players have.
Now, what's needed is to split grinders from stories. (Note: talking about legitimate grinders and not exploits.)
My suggestion is unorthodox:
Let players flag their mission as a grinder OR a story.
Have grinder wrapper provide more FLAT dilithium reward because that's what grinders want.
Have story missions award 10% less dilithium or so but have story based thematic rewards. My suggestion is a grab bag with the Lore Datachips, themed DOffs, and items with cool names. Maybe themed BOffs. And maybe a costume unlocked piece by piece (boots, gloves, shoulders, etc. unlocked in pieces.)
The idea is to lure grinders towards the content they will enjoy and lure story seekers towards content they will enjoy.
As long as someone is PLAYING (and not exploiting) then good.
And dealing with the desire to exploit, I think the solution there is more "exploration" (in a game way, not necessarily a Star Trek way) that rewards playing with content in creative ways, on the order of the hidden weapons in Coliseum. The more of that there is in the game and the less straightforward and replicatable it is, the more the exploit urge will be channeled into productive activities. To an extent, things like No Win Scenario do this... and it would be awesome if the Foundry could allow some kind of easter egg gameplay/placement and optional pathing, which I realize is a long way out.
That sounds kind oflike the Foundry rep grind they've talked about (the rewards part seems similar to those grind to unlock to grind items in the other reps).
This is exactly the sort of thing I'm hoping for, pretty much. Whether you do story-heavy or story-light, you aren't penalized for it. There are a few points where I might differ though...
-Note that someone doing really heavy grinding is probably doing multiple characters. Thus the current rate of return for someone pushing the limits is closer to 960 dilithium every 20 minutes. (15 of course the IOR minimum +5 for missions not running precisely that long, the time to switch characters, select missions, etc.) You may or may not consider this higher than it should be, but it's pretty much what it is right now.
-I'm not sure controlling drops that way is ideal, and it also sounds like it would require major changes from the way the system currently operates, which could be hard to manage.
-Beyond that, I'm not convinced that reducing the number of items entering the market is really a great idea. The increased supply of mid-high tier equipment strikes me as a good thing.
-What about inflation? I'd suggest bringing down the vendor price of certain items, and adding some "nice, but not vital" EC sinks to the game. As things stand, there's not much to use EC for, and that's the real problem.
Improving the Foundry UI would be great no matter what happens. In some ways I still think it's better than the equivalent in CoH, but... it can be kind of weird. (Like, why does what I enter for "title" sometimes get searched for in the description as well, and sometimes not?)
-Morgan.
I wouldn't want the reward to go back to a daily, but some sort of limit or a slightly longer cool-down wouldn't affect me. As for dropped loot, I don't play for that anyway.
I don't really think that a massive change in the rewards available is needed. Good rewards will attract all sorts of players, including those who will find ways to cut corners. I definitely don't think we need to 'sour' the rewards and chase away players. Cryptic already shows that they intend to smash exploits. If players want to fight tons of ships and get their drops, that's fine with me. But Cryptic will continue to stomp on 'shortcuts', and I agree with that.
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Ya, I didn't want to go overboard with rewards as I normally do the Pi Canis sortes in about 15 minutes for 960 dilith (I guess it's about average) but they award many more tech drops. I was thinking the drops would be allotments that the mission could award, be it NPC's killed in mission or a loot bag on completion, but with author control of killable NPC's they could choose when the appropriate time the award would be given, else the mission gets a lower player rating, or (gasp) flagged for not awarding whats expected. of course the awards could be adjusted by cryptic, or the player could choose to do longer missions.
well, if enough players press cryptic to tweek the ui they could do something. I'm comfortable with it as-is but it doesn't mean it couldn't be better.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
There would never be a 5 hour grind mission, and if there was it wouldn't be successful. Longer mission length is generally undesirable, all things being equal (even if the rewards scaled). It raises the bar too high, because a lot of people don't have enough time, and there's a greater chance of losing connection or having to quit before the end.
The only reason some story missions are longer is due to an unfortunate side effect of needing more time to tell a comprehensive story. It's not optimal for rewards, even if rewards scaled with time. Right now rewards don't scale so they are doubly penalized.
Shorter missions will always be favored, to some extent, even if rewards scaled properly with time, but that little advantage can be overcome if the longer mission is good enough. We just need the reward to scale with length for fairness.
On the other stuff, Cryptic is going to have to decide if they want the Foundry used to grind for resources. I think they should add other methods that are better than the Foundry to the game, and discourage the use of the Foundry for those purposes. The UI can still be split into Story and Combat, but just outright grinding is lame. That's up to them to decide though.
I wonder if DStahl is really going to read all this?
Click here for my Foundry tutorial on Creating A Custom Interior Map.
Actually, as a matter of fact with the way the UI current works, we're actually seeing a theft of our previous audience. The current structure of the UI means that the grind missions bury everything else, and it makes it harder for those who enjoy stories to find them. Too few actually understand the search option, and if they do, what will they search for? Unless they've played Foundry missions before and memorized some of their favorite authors they'll have no idea where to start.
That is why the UI changes are being suggested. Personally, I don't think it's enough, but it would be a major improvement.
Click here for my Foundry tutorial on Creating A Custom Interior Map.
On a side note, I could see something like that qualifying for the spotlight, too.
That's why the reward structure is bankrupt, in my opinion. It doesn't encourage playing of missions that are better, because the author has actually put time into them.
And, no, this really isn't a matter of opinion as to what's good either. If we just ripped the rewards out of the Foundry, the AFK grinders, for example, would disappear in a second. They're not being played because people actually enjoy them, anymore than the clickies. The idea that they are the best of the Foundry content, whether you desire story or combat, is ridiculous.
The current reward structure is favoring certain missions that most optimally meet the IOR requirements, resulting in some missions being rated highly just for that. That is one issue that definitely needs to be fixed. It's also why I say the problem is more than about Combat vs Story. It's also about the rewards encouraging the creation of a very narrow type of mission that is designed to optimize rewards, with other considerations secondary.
Click here for my Foundry tutorial on Creating A Custom Interior Map.
Top 10 top rated (federation side) as of 2-6-13
1) grind
2) "story"
3) grind
4) "story"
5) "story"
6) "story"
7) "story"
8) stf training mission.. neither?
9) "story"
10) "story"
I'mnot seeing anything buried, in fact, thatlist makes your claims outdated/moot. Thatis 7or8/10 of the "front page" which isall that a person will look at initially. It is the prime realestate that appears to be the root cause of this entire brouhaha. Explain how this is not enough and that the system has not already corrected itself (or even intentionally)after the nerf?
Also, do you have metrics to back upyour claims?
[edit: list generated from notbeing reviewer]
I have enjoyed many types of foundry missions for a list of reasons. I have played several good story missions (stand alones and series) because I enjoyed the different stories. The drops and rewards were just perks.
I did the grind in the Foundry for ground kill trophies; there again the drops and rewards were just perks. (To bad I can't get the Federation trophy as a Fed toon).
Many out there turn to the Foundry's grind missions simply because they think it is the only way they can off-set the insanely high cost of the exchange. I can honestly say this because I was one of them before I came to the conclusion that the over inflated rates in the exchange was like a frivolous lawsuit against a total stranger.
Do I buy and sell items on the exchange? Yes, and yet I have yet to charge more than 20% below full value for any item I recieved from a drop.