Case in point are the clickies and the timid creature exploit. Anyone who believes Cryptic pulled the plug on those because a handful of Foundry authors whined for attention is badly mistaken in my opinion. These exploits created situations that allowed players to obtain disproportionate rewards in a way that was never intended by Cryptic. As soon as they became aware of it, they had to find a way to stop it. Fact, case closed.
If you want proof of the elitism and discontent of those who claim foul to Cryptic about the so called exploits and grinders...here it is:
Excerpt talking about the exploits/grinders to be put in a concentration camp (allegorically speaking) see the tone of civility employed on this one...:
I'm honestly with Drogyn on this one.
Tweet the heck outta every Dev you can.
Facebook them.
Bug report them.
And then.
Go back and do it again the next day until something is done about these.
The truth of the matter is that these grinder missions are actually economy breaking, and not just for the value of ec either.
These are something that needs to be addressed by the people at Cryptic, if they have any sense toward the long term survivability of the game's economy , on multiple levels.
Annoy the TRIBBLE out of them with tweets about it.
Send Report after report through all available channels. In and Out of Game.
This current trend is actually worse than the One Stop shop of the clickies.
That's not saying I want those back.
Just saying that Cryptic designers REALLY need to take a look at what the long term effects of these missions are going to be.
More on this:
You can call it what you want exploits, clickies, cheats, whatever. The fact is that it was a "legal" and legit way for some authors to write new content "approved" by Cryptic. Its not an exploit if it was approved by the DEVs. The final decision would be theirs and I got a feeling they will side with the few elitist authors who found a "niche" in this game.
Fair is fair and all have to be tolerant of others no matter what. Otherwise this game will dissapoint a lot of players. Compromise is a much better option. Lots of people have suggested to have both ways "Story" and "grind" missions side by side...is that hard to ask...my last opinion in this subject. TY
I'm related to a content designer for another major MMO. I've also seen these exact same threads on at least three other boards. When players find ways around the system to gain extreme rewards with little effort, those MMO devs call them exploits, not balance issues.
See how similar uses of the CoH mission architect for powerleveling, etc., worked out. Nobody TRIBBLE anything, they exploited existing systems in ways that were not intended by the designers. They ended up with mass bannings -- AFTER being warned about it.
That may have happened at one point, but it certainly wasn't ubiquitous. For instance, as far as I know they never banned anyone over cascading ambushes. They just changed it to be less rewarding.
As for extreme rewards here... where are they exactly? Before or after the timid change, it was impossible to exceed the rewards allowed by the drop limit and the IOR timers. It's still impossible now. If the limits and timers need to be adjusted, that's Cryptics prerogative, but that's hardly something you could have expected people to just *guess*.
The authors are treating us the same way they treat Kestrel. Go to any of their non-official websites and you will see them ranting about her stories and how they're not sure if they should wrap them up or go back in time and undo them completely. She got their job, they all want to write for STO. Kirkfat had some notorious threads in these forums about whether there was even a story at all.
My beef with the stories in STO was never a personal attack on the game's writer. I made that clear.
There are good stories in STO. There are terrible stories in STO. Same goes for the Foundry.
Now, we can add that: There are stories in the Foundry, if you can find them among the AFK TRIBBLE.
Also.... Kestrel didn't write them all.... She wrote the better ones.
Yes, agreed. My lambasting was mostly Gozer's remasters in the early part of the game. If I had continued the reviews past level 9 or so, they would have gotten much better. The Devidian arc is still one of my favorite Cryptic stories.
I don't dispute that egos are involved. I contend that ego has no place in this discussion. Nor is an adversarial tone going to be constructive.
A contributing factor that led up to this sometimes heated debate is the fact that the gateway to Foundry content is flawed:
1. The Rating and Review system is open to abuse and has been abused.
2. The ability to find content based on personal interest is very limited and the misuse of the Rating system makes this even more difficult.
Long before clickies were ever an issue, even before the IOR had been implemented, back when the Foundry was still in its' infancy, Foundry authors have long maintained that there is a problem with how Foundry content is rated, searched, and promoted.
I think the Foundry needs better ways to categorize, or tag, missions and the ability to search on those tags. It needs a way to display average play times, whether it includes combat encounters, and even the number of map transitions needed for completion. That kind of thing will help.
And across the whole game, rewarding players based on specific kinds of activity rather than how many times they click or solely based on how much time they spend doing them will also help. This is going to be hard to do and Cryptic may never have the ability to do this. They have to reduce or eliminate rewards for AFK, for one thing.
I feel like I've taken a pretty moderate stance. I think the problem boils down to economics, mission sorting, and lack of direction on what the tools are for.
HOWEVER...
I think ego is a part of it and should be a part of it and that the point of the Foundry absolutely should be to feed egos. Because nothing "crowdsourced" is free.
I think authors have large egos. I think they should have egos. I think anything that gets in the way of those feeding egos is a bad thing for the Foundry.
In game design, it's called fiero and flow. Authorship tools are, really, a form of game themselves and need to be examined not just as a development tool but a game ecosystem.
To the very same extent that major league gaming PvPers operate from a place of pride, UGC authors need to as well. And I think that feeding that pride is the price of having UGC in a game.
If you're against feeding author egos, well... You're against the Foundry. Same as it is with being against PvP egotism makes a person against seriously competitive PvP.
Also.... Kestrel didn't write them all.... She wrote the better ones.
Actually, she did write them all. As in the plots. And I think she does great work.
On the other hand, I'm not always happy with how content designers have executed those plots and they control the pacing and dialogue on everything. Effectively, a content designer is like a Hollywood director.
And I don't think anybody thinks content designers have had a perfect batting average with Kestrel's plots.
And I do think Cryptic tends to be gamer first, nerd second. Which isn't to say the place isn't massively nerdy but when you hear them talk about getting bored with text and wanting to shoot something, that is cultural. Another studio could well say, "We're going to invest our resources into making 40 page novellas fun." And that all comes down to choices. With Cryptic, there are generally default assumptions that it isn't fun. And I agree, from playing some Foundry missions, it often isn't. But for some studios, they'd be scrambling, saying, "Crud. How do we adjust dialogue displays and text UI to make reading FUN?" Whereas I do feel Cryptic tends to treat it as a default limitation of the genre rather than being dedicated to reinventing video games as something they aren't.
And I'm not sure content alone can do that, so, from that POV, it's true. But if you had the UI team and sound effects and art and systems teams spend six months on making reading fun? I think they could do it. And maybe should. Because I think that's where casual gaming is going. You need to back off of producing games and focus on being an entertainment platform that draws from books and movies and everything else. Being aggressively pro-gaming is puritanical.
Being fans of ANY platform or genre or medium is, I think, a toxic liability. I feel the same way whenever someone calls themselves a "film buff" or says they love the "comics medium." Death to all formats, I say. Focus on a feel you want to evoke and bend and meld whatever tools you have to get that feeling across. Don't be a fan of any format. Not comics. Not films. Not books. Not video games. Any more specific than being a fan of art, in the general sense, is fundamentalism that will eventually limit your audience when you say, "That's not what video games/books/comics/films do."
But all that said, I don't think it's really all that relevant to this thread.
If you're against feeding author egos, well... You're against the Foundry. Same as it is with being against PvP egotism makes a person against seriously competitive PvP.
It's ok up to a point. Because deferring tosomeone's ego will eventually turn them into a territorial monster, prone to throwing tantrums and acting like small children. And if I think, because I'm an adult, that catering to whims of adults (or teens) acting like smallchildren lest they start screaming on the floor is not just wrong but stupid-- if that's all the Foundry issupposed to be -- then Cryptic's in the wrong business.
edit: and since you bring up PvP... "Ego" is so toxic that in League of Legends they had to hire a cognitive neuroscientist and a behavioral psychologist to keep their game from imploding due to bad player behavior.
The authors are treating us the same way they treat Kestrel. Go to any of their non-official websites and you will see them ranting about her stories and how they're not sure if they should wrap them up or go back in time and undo them completely. She got their job, they all want to write for STO. Kirkfat had some notorious threads in these forums about whether there was even a story at all.
Since Kestrel got the job, and they can't have it, they now have the foundry to make their case. Once their list got cluttered they felt they were losing that chance too. If they managed to eradicate all others from the foundry they'd likely start eating their own. Pure Ego.
It's amusing in a sad way that even when they hold out an olive branch it comes simultaneously with condemnation and a description of how others are unable to understand and appreciate art due to being driven by their "reptilian lower brains". The talk of award types grinders wouldn't want or eliminating part of the tool-set because we're less deserving is indicative of this superiority they feel.
I suggest Kestrel gets to pick any stories worthy of spotlighting from now on, and she deserves a raise for all the bad publicity these divas have given her.
I probably shouldn't even respond to this, but it's funny, because the truth is I don't want to write for STO. You couldn't pay me enough to do it. I can't even imagine wasting my time writing up doff bios and such. That doesn't interest me at all. I'd rather do just about anything else.
The biggest problem with STO's story is there isn't one. Cryptic stopped making actual storyline missions with any sort of regularity (actually they never even succeeded in making them with any sort of regularity to start with). So, while not seeing what's going on behind the scenes, I really don't think the deficiencies in STO's story development are due to Kestral. Frankly, I agree that whatever they are paying Kestral they should double it.
In the end people have to put food on the table somehow, but I doubt very many people have illusions that writing for an MMO would be a dream job. Or at least it's obvious to me, anyway. I probably shouldn't speak for anyone else.
The nice thing about the Foundry is we can write the type of stories we want. We're not limited to whatever Cryptic or PWE wants.
On another note, I don't know where you see people ranting about how bad STO's writing is. I haven't really seen that anywhere? Sure there is maybe some criticism out there, but it's not like anyone is dwelling on it.
On another note, I don't know where you see people ranting about how bad STO's writing is. I haven't really seen that anywhere? Sure there is maybe some criticism out there, but it's not like anyone is dwelling on it.
There were some. Most of them left before the Foundry ever went live.
In general, what I see among Foundry authors is:
- Sympathy for Kestrel
- Adoration of Charles Gray's work
- Respect for Heinig
- Rampant distrust of the Systems Team
If there is a shade of contempt, it's generally directed at Rivera and (much less since he left) Gozer. And I generally liked both guys fairly well although I wind up paranoid that Gozer and/or Rivera are deliberately anti-story if I spend too long on Vent or Skype with enough Foundry authors. The wells of urban legends about both of them runs VERY deep.
The one person (aside from Kirkfat, who's pretty much a Foundry separatist and maybe Nagus) who I can remember seriously ragging on Kestrel is now actually a dev.
I really hated the entire storyline as it was. Uninspiring, bored, I can't spot one single good moment of it. Saving the galaxy twice every day?
- What did you do today, hon? Oh nothing, I gruesomely killed 200 foes and saved the galaxy from a guy who made a monster torpedo.
- What did you do today, hon? Oh nothing, I gruesomely killed 200 foes and saved the galaxy from a guy who made a monster ship.
- What did you do today, hon? Oh nothing, I gruesomely killed 200 foes and saved the galaxy from a guy who made a monster laser beam.
Come on, compared to this the life of a police officer in the traffic department:
- What did you do today, hon? I handed out parking tickets.
- What did you do today, hon? I chased down 2 juveniles who were doing grafitties.
- What did you do today, hon? I helped school children to cross the road.
See, even his life is a lot more versatile than my Captain's.
Also, the fact that everyone can be a double just alienated ALL the NPCs.
Ok, (s)he talks like a warmonger idiot and not a UFP officer, (s)he must be an Undine. Turns out (s)he is a genuine UFP officer.
Finally, a guy who behaves like a real Starfleet officer, ops, there goes the Undine.
And why was my character portrayed as a fanatical, mass murdering maniac who keeps on killing until there is noone left to ask questions from? And the top brass is actually happy with this.
There was little to no continuity. Characters and new plots were introduced out of the blue and then got forgotten completely.
Everything feels so terribly forced that I didn't feel I'm playing at all. Your only contribution to the story is the pressing of the W and the F key. Any sort of brain activity is seriously contra-indicated.
The story is so incoherent that half of the time the only indication you get about the next task is an icon on the map and a storyboard sentence. Call me oldschool, but story writing should be done in a way that you should not need to peek onto the storyboard at all. Actually, the storyboard is something I used to create by noting down important aspects while playing the game. At least it was like this in my EOB and Krondor days.
To the very same extent that major league gaming PvPers operate from a place of pride, UGC authors need to as well. And I think that feeding that pride is the price of having UGC in a game.
I'm curious as to how you've come to the notion that this "pride" is diminished ?
How is this accomplished ?
And to be blunt , why should ppl who want to use the Foundry differently "suffer for this pride" .
What if I don't feel like suffering just because I doodle with a pencil , while someone else makes grand vistas via painting or CG art ?
Do those who create more complex creations "own" creativity ?
Have they patented it ?
I think authors have large egos. I think they should have egos. I think anything that gets in the way of those feeding egos is a bad thing for the Foundry.
Not going to go to "pride comes before a fall" -- but you know what -- I will go there .
If the notion that "the Foundry belongs to US !" (i.e. story authors) is not driven by some warped sense of pride , I'll be surprised .
And from that warped world view comes the arrogance that allows certain ppl to think that they have the right to dictate what the foundry can and cannot be used for .
Would you like to be told by other players how to PVP ? How to STF , run , stand still , decorate your ship , your toon etc. ?
I think the answer is no .
And this prideful arrogance is what left me with a bad taste in my mouth .
I have enough Dil . I have enough EC . And I have had enough of ppl presuming to tell other ppl how to play . That's Cryptic's job , not yours .
*yours being a general sense , not you L99)
I feel like I've taken a pretty moderate stance. I think the problem boils down to economics, mission sorting, and lack of direction on what the tools are for.
I agree with everything above except the "economics" bit .
STO lived 1 year (a 1/3 of it's existence) with Clicky's . They did not "need" to go away unless Cryptic decided that they needed less Dill in the market -- something that (SURPRISE !) the Foundry Authors have about as much to do with as non-Foundry authors .
And IMHO , AFK-ers and Grinders fall into that same exact same place -- meaning that they have very little-to-no actual impact on STO's economy .
AFK-ers are not the reason a Mk12 Tac console costs between 20-60 Mil EC .
Greedy players + lousy distribution by Cryptic are the reason for that .
Perhaps these sentinels of Right and Just would like to hound those who are actually turning the EC economy into a nightmare .
If there is a shade of contempt, it's generally directed at Rivera and (much less since he left) Gozer. And I generally liked both guys fairly well although I wind up paranoid that Gozer and/or Rivera are deliberately anti-story if I spend too long on Vent or Skype with enough Foundry authors. The wells of urban legends about both of them runs VERY deep.
I'm not defending them (becauseI believe devs need to be kept at armslength-being "friends" or "imaginary frinds" causes problems) but gameplay does need consideration. For the lesson on that Ill just point vaguely inthe direction of EA's $200,000,000 flop...
I'm not defending them (becauseI believe devs need to be kept at armslength-being "friends" or "imaginary frinds" causes problems) but gameplay does need consideration. For the lesson on that Ill just point vaguely inthe direction of EA's $200,000,000 flop...
I think it does too but it's a bit weird to notice how the systems team honchos get the flak.
I understand it in WoW because those systems guys do a PvP rebalancing every other week.
In STO, there's a feeling that these guys are actively anti-story and that any dev who starts spending a lot of time with the systems team picks up the bug.
Whereas for all the many reasons and excuses people have to rag on the systems guys in WoW, they're actually pretty involved in promoting story there. (See things like tech for a Rashomon-style flashback quest in Cateclysm, for example.)
It's a perception specific to Cryptic's systems team. Real or not, that perception causes Foundry/systems team tension. And fixing problems in business isn't limited to only fixing the real or justified ones. Even if it's ungrounded, a fake or faulty source of tension needs to be addressed SOMEHOW.
I have heard several authors talk about the systems team like they're a gang of guys in leather jackets, actively suppressing and shouting down story-centric development. And sometimes, I do wonder if in Cryptic's "iterative" model, stuff doesn't happen because the systems team has a rigid "game" philosophy.
Cryptic doesn't drag devs in directions they don't want to go. Taco was talking about this the other day. They drop planned directions if a bloc of devs don't like it. I do feel like while I like the individual systems devs for the most part, they are especially "bloc-ish" and drag the game away from anything that they perceive as not being game-like enough.
And I do feel that they're somehow the rockstar team at Cryptic. Which seems unusual to me in terms of organizational structure for an MMO.
9 times out of 10, if a dev says something cranky about the forums or roleplay, it's the systems team. 9 times out of 10, if somebody shows a bias towards PvP and emergent gameplay, it's the systems team.
I want to understand what the Foundry is for, in Cryptic's eyes. I think I understand, but I'd like to clarify that understanding if I can without putting words in their mouth. I know it matters to them. I want to know why.
Might not get a direct answer, or hear anything different, but it's worth a shot.
For everybody else here, I'd like to know whether I correctly summarized the player groups who are interested in the Foundry:
Foundry Authors
Trek Fans
Gamers
Did I miss anybody in that breakdown? I have my reasons for asking. I want to ask leading questions that may help all of us to express what features and outcomes we're expecting from the Foundry without automatically shooting each other down when there's a difference of opinion. I want to keep things on a more constructive level.
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For any player to explore the trekuniverse however they want, and/or educate themselves on game design in general. Without censorship or imposition of a limited definition of type or topic by any smallgroup of other players. Within the legal terns outlined int he eula.
Though it would be funny and very obscure to make amission starring James Goldstone (alas forbidden!).
I want to understand what the Foundry is for, in Cryptic's eyes. I think I understand, but I'd like to clarify that understanding if I can without putting words in their mouth. I know it matters to them. I want to know why.
May I ask what do you expect their answer to be ?
I'm asking for example because I'm fairly sure that their answer will involve words like "story" and "self expression" and "exploration of the Trek universe" -- while at the same time it will not express any signs of a hope that fans will create story content so Cryptic does not have to , nor any sentiments along the line of being a Beta for NWN .
Might not get a direct answer, or hear anything different, but it's worth a shot.
Perhaps .
But I think that human creativity is like a genie in a bottle .
You may ask the "overseers" for their "intent" till the cows come home -- and I have no doubt that there are some (on both sides of this argument) who are just waiting to point to Cryptic statement to say "see , we were right !!!" -- but no statement will convince everyone .
That's just not possible IMHO , any more then it is to put the genie back in the bottle .
For everybody else here, I'd like to know whether I correctly summarized the player groups who are interested in the Foundry:
Foundry Authors
Trek Fans
Gamers
Did I miss anybody in that breakdown?
You've touched on the economic situation before , yet you have not chosen to express that in your summery of the player groups .
How about the Hard Pressed Gaming Population ?
Those can be Trekkies as well as Foundry Authors as well as Gamers .
All of them have had a Starbase grind served to them in S.6 , with multiple additional grinds lumped on top of that in S.7 , w/the promise of more on the way .
Tell me , do we need to be segregated into groups for that grind to effect us ?
Is one group effected more than the other ? And if so my how much , and what would that even matter/prove ?
I can only speak for myself , but for the first 2 years of this game , I owned anywhere between 1-3 mill EC . I never needed more , and I was content .
Now I feel I can never be content because I never have enough (EC/Dil) ... and I'm not the only one who feels like that . Not by a longshot !
That artificial pressure comes from Cryptic/PW .
And that artificial pressure is what caused the "invasion" of the Foundry by Grinders .
If you are truely interested in the cause of the Clicky's and the Grinder Missions then start searching for the root for these "problems" .
Do you think that there is a question you can ask Cryptic , that will make them ease up on the pressure cooker they have turned STO into ?
I'm not really sure .
Nor am I sure that an "answer" to Cryptic's "intent" in regards to the Foundry will help straighten out STO's economy -- which I see directly linked to the "need" for Clicky's , Grinders , AFK's and any and all shortcuts to quick profits -- not for personal gain (in most cases) , but to feed the ever mounting Grind .
Sure , some will argue that you don't NEED to grind , but you don't need to go crazy on Black Friday either .
That does not seem to stop the masses in the US it seems .
I'd rather not go there. I'll get a direct answer or I won't.
The Foundry has a reason to exist that justifies Cryptic's and PWE's investment in it. Clearly, the intended outcome is NOT to allow players to play the game in any way that runs counter to their own interests.
Perhaps .
But I think that human creativity is like a genie in a bottle .
You may ask the "overseers" for their "intent" till the cows come home -- and I have no doubt that there are some (on both sides of this argument) who are just waiting to point to Cryptic statement to say "see , we were right !!!" -- but no statement will convince everyone .
That's just not possible IMHO , any more then it is to put the genie back in the bottle .
You're probably right about that. But any discussion about what the Foundry is supposed to be and to become is missing part of the equation if we aren't very aware of what Cryptic and PWE intend for it. So I asked. I'm sure there are some who don't really care what Cryptic's intentions are, but I'm not one of them.
Now I feel I can never be content because I never have enough (EC/Dil) ... and I'm not the only one who feels like that . Not by a longshot !
That artificial pressure comes from Cryptic/PW .
And that artificial pressure is what caused the "invasion" of the Foundry by Grinders .
If you are truely interested in the cause of the Clicky's and the Grinder Missions then start searching for the root for these "problems" .
I wouldn't call the clickies and grinders an "invasion". They were symptoms of those root causes you're referring to. I used the clickies myself, probably for the same reasons everybody else did, so I don't pretend to be a saint. Haven't used the grinders, so allow me to focus on the clickies for a bit.
1. Gathering resources to build starbases and reputations was and is time-consuming and slow and not much fun. The delayed gratification is a little too delayed, if you get me.
2. Clickies were an easy and fast way to accumulate resources using the IOR. This allowed people to get them out of the way faster so they could go back to doing the stuff they really wanted to do.
3. Instant and/or easy gratification is something we're all inclined towards one way or another and some of us more than others.
Cryptic had two choices for dealing with the problem. Lower the grind and/or remove the reward for clickies. And since clickies actually contributed to more than one problem that should concern Cryptic, they (or rather the reward for them) had to go.
I accept that and I understand why it had to be that way, even though I was kind of sad to see them go. They simply run counter to the way that Cryptic intends for the game to be played, and I believe there are sound reasons why they have to limit what some of us are calling exploits. They were an unintended loophole in the system that they never meant for anyone to take advantage of.
To Cryptic's credit, they've actually increased the rate at which they give out rewards for more kinds of content than they did before. And, to some degree, they decreased some of the individual sinks. They really had to, since they increased the number of sinks.
But, yes, in my opinion the economy is still a mess and buying anything worth getting is way out of reach of anybody but people with money and/or time to burn. That, or the cunning to find ways to take advantage of the system for profit.
Yes, the game intentionally creates psychological tension to accumulate these resources and gates our ability to get them. You need to do it all, but you simply don't have the time to do it all. It's part of what creates a demand that drives sales and makes free-to-play work. It's no different, really, from what marketers and advertisers do to us every day. But at least some of them are honestly trying to provide value, and I believe that's also true of Cryptic. I know there are many who disagree with me about that, and I'm not going to try to argue them out of their own honest opinions.
I'm also not interested in trying to argue with people who hold the opinion that the clickies and grinders are fair, necessary, and harmless. I disagree, but they have the right to their opinion. What matters is that Cryptic decided these weren't working out the way they intended, they got rid of them, and very likely every player is just going to have to accept it and move on, or go play something else for awhile.
But... Cryptic is listening. They're watching this thread. Maybe someone has a good and logical proposal or position that will convince them to change things again, in a different way. But let's not turn it into a bunch of nasty arguments.
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New to this thread, so I didn't read all 13 or whoever many pages this thing is, but I just wanted to chime in as a Foundry creator dabbler, but avid Foundry mission consumer.
Maybe I'm in a minority, but I like grinders.. at least the ground variety. I have a great deal of fun figuring out what boff combinations are successful and what boff combinations aren't. I can exclude myself from the combat and observe.. then refine my strategy and try again until I have the best boffs I can build.
This is a form of gameplay that isn't available anywhere else in the game, and I really enjoy it. I also enjoy getting fleet marks and dilithium out of the deal. This makes the foundry valuable to me, because I am getting a lot of benefit from it.
I also enjoy playing story missions, but I seldom repeat them because I already know the story once I've played.
Another benefit of the foundry for me is that I don't have to collect a group of people to play with. I can just log on and go, no hassle. If I want to, I can log on and grab some quick flarks and dil, have a little fun, and log off. No assembling a team, no queueing, no getting sandbagged by punks who park in the corner and make you do all the work a man short.
That's just me. Leave the foundry the way it is.
Give the authors more tools to create greater stories in depth.
Establish rules for what an acceptable mission is and isn't, and then stick by them and stop changing them every patch.
...people use the Foundry tricks because we are not exactly given much of a choice...
Untrue.
Said it before, will say it again until the screen on my iphone cracks: Nobody told the players to get on the Fleet Hamster Wheel. And aside from the ego boost provided by the fleet ships and PvP there's no reason to start. Cryptic dangled a shiney in front of you all and you jumped at it without looking at the pit at your feet.
Players found an exploit to replace the previous exploit. Cryptic nerfed it as they should have. There's no reason to take arguments against that seriously.
The real discussion should be about how to get that timid creature tool back into the hands of the authors and not "Hao me get all nao yu nerf, Cryptic?" To me changing the loot table is the best way to go about it. But I don't know how the coding for this game works. That might be impossible. It might not be.
But if they want UGC to be part of the game's appeal, I think putting in the work for it would be wise.
There is a lot to be said for taking a more relaxed approach to the Romulan/Omega/Fleet mark stuff. My fleet gets most of my resources, but as far as the Romulan/Omega stuff, I made the decision that I simply don't care at what pace it gets done. Why do I need to be the first person to have it done? Why do I need to get stressed out about it? I don't.
The fleet is different because other people are counting on your efforts, but even then, if I were in a fleet that were making me miserable by putting a stupid amount of pressure on its members, I would find another one.
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I have been enjoying the foundry and just started learning how to author missions in it. Searching for information I found this thread. Its been quite the trip reading it all.
To those that sought to bring reasonable discussion and to calm the passions involved thank you. This is a vital topic.
When i started reaching higher levels in the game I was shocked at how much grinding was involved. I was contemplating quitting the game because I would simply never be able to play enough to catch up. When they changed the daily into a half hour quest I was relieved and thought it was done to provide that relief.
The debate about playing a game the 'right' was is a long one. in Everquest you were supposed to assemble swarms of players to take down touch enemies paying experience each time you died for that loot. The 'Vision' changed though. In my opinion this game's vision will change too.
That all said, on to more productive things. My thoughts on resolving the conflict.
In a perfect world the solution would be a coding one. An algorythm to make rewards from the quest based off something like;
Slain/#slain + clicks-Speedofclick + time-timeafk = Y/3 = SomeNumberThatIsAppliedToTheDilAndMarks
And add in a check when a mob is passive and have it say if true no loot. Thats one way that would code in the rewards desired without messing things up and once the code is done the numbers can be nosed around to tweak them to optimal levels. Be it just below STF/InGameQuesting rewards (my pick) or the same or above levels.
The problem is programmers are expensive and their staffing is likely going to be an issue. The company is budgeting right now and would have to show it would produce a positive cash flow. I think they could by making the Foundry attractive to play the story in, especially if they add into this $1 map packs with 15-20 items in it and a set up setting to use.
So if a large amount of coding isn't likely to be the answer the next step down in my mind would be a reworking of the UI for the Foundry.
Add in the mentioned encoded tags. fears aside I think it will work out with the foundry's 5 star system so mislabeled missions fail. Especially if you strip the stars and runs when the tags are changed.
Make it so their divided up by these types or not as selected by the player. For an example use the DOff UI in how it lists them and you can break them up based on being an advisor and so on.
Also a in game quest to go see Sulu who explains the basics of the foundry and grants you an official foundry mission. With breadcrumbs leading them there people will stick their nose through the door to see whats there.
In order to fix the 'problem' of cash grinding off ships you should seek the root of the problem. STO is not a closed economy. Money comes in but doesnt leave so it stays in circulation leading to inflation leading those who want to make purchases to need to find ways to make more money as theirs literally becomes less valuable each day they hold on to it. So dont mess with loot drops instead fix the economy and things should smooth themselves out. Shoot holes in the bucket to let the EC out
Are AFK missions with your BOFFs fighting a problem? That's a sticky question since we already get Dil, xp, etc when not playing the game through our DOffs. A simple solution can be borrowed form other games. Add a programming line before the loot roll/XP grant; if player damage = true then loot if = false no roll. There's ways around it but we're seeking to set a minimum level of involvement in playing the game and that would make it less easy to run for cash but still useful if you wanted to play one.
I love the foundry for the many different sorts of game play I have at my fingertips. A friend pointed me to a space grinder that has some really hillarious dialog and I'm happy I tried. I hope Cryptic can find a solution that will manage to serve everyone their own special burger instead of saying one table of customers must eat cake.
P.S. A way to check authors would be grand - I am terribly curious what stoleviathan99 and others have written.
Comments
To some extent I might agree but there are certain fallacies to his argument.
If you want proof of the elitism and discontent of those who claim foul to Cryptic about the so called exploits and grinders...here it is:
Excerpt talking about the exploits/grinders to be put in a concentration camp (allegorically speaking) see the tone of civility employed on this one...:
I'm honestly with Drogyn on this one.
Tweet the heck outta every Dev you can.
Facebook them.
Bug report them.
And then.
Go back and do it again the next day until something is done about these.
The truth of the matter is that these grinder missions are actually economy breaking, and not just for the value of ec either.
These are something that needs to be addressed by the people at Cryptic, if they have any sense toward the long term survivability of the game's economy , on multiple levels.
Annoy the TRIBBLE out of them with tweets about it.
Send Report after report through all available channels. In and Out of Game.
This current trend is actually worse than the One Stop shop of the clickies.
That's not saying I want those back.
Just saying that Cryptic designers REALLY need to take a look at what the long term effects of these missions are going to be.
More on this:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=523741
Look this needs to stop.
You can call it what you want exploits, clickies, cheats, whatever. The fact is that it was a "legal" and legit way for some authors to write new content "approved" by Cryptic. Its not an exploit if it was approved by the DEVs. The final decision would be theirs and I got a feeling they will side with the few elitist authors who found a "niche" in this game.
Fair is fair and all have to be tolerant of others no matter what. Otherwise this game will dissapoint a lot of players. Compromise is a much better option. Lots of people have suggested to have both ways "Story" and "grind" missions side by side...is that hard to ask...my last opinion in this subject. TY
My character Tsin'xing
That may have happened at one point, but it certainly wasn't ubiquitous. For instance, as far as I know they never banned anyone over cascading ambushes. They just changed it to be less rewarding.
As for extreme rewards here... where are they exactly? Before or after the timid change, it was impossible to exceed the rewards allowed by the drop limit and the IOR timers. It's still impossible now. If the limits and timers need to be adjusted, that's Cryptics prerogative, but that's hardly something you could have expected people to just *guess*.
-Morgan.
My beef with the stories in STO was never a personal attack on the game's writer. I made that clear.
There are good stories in STO. There are terrible stories in STO. Same goes for the Foundry.
Now, we can add that: There are stories in the Foundry, if you can find them among the AFK TRIBBLE.
My character Tsin'xing
Yes, agreed. My lambasting was mostly Gozer's remasters in the early part of the game. If I had continued the reviews past level 9 or so, they would have gotten much better. The Devidian arc is still one of my favorite Cryptic stories.
It'd be nice to know who was behind The 2800, since I loved that series.
-Morgan.
I feel like I've taken a pretty moderate stance. I think the problem boils down to economics, mission sorting, and lack of direction on what the tools are for.
HOWEVER...
I think ego is a part of it and should be a part of it and that the point of the Foundry absolutely should be to feed egos. Because nothing "crowdsourced" is free.
I think authors have large egos. I think they should have egos. I think anything that gets in the way of those feeding egos is a bad thing for the Foundry.
In game design, it's called fiero and flow. Authorship tools are, really, a form of game themselves and need to be examined not just as a development tool but a game ecosystem.
To the very same extent that major league gaming PvPers operate from a place of pride, UGC authors need to as well. And I think that feeding that pride is the price of having UGC in a game.
If you're against feeding author egos, well... You're against the Foundry. Same as it is with being against PvP egotism makes a person against seriously competitive PvP.
Actually, she did write them all. As in the plots. And I think she does great work.
On the other hand, I'm not always happy with how content designers have executed those plots and they control the pacing and dialogue on everything. Effectively, a content designer is like a Hollywood director.
And I don't think anybody thinks content designers have had a perfect batting average with Kestrel's plots.
And I do think Cryptic tends to be gamer first, nerd second. Which isn't to say the place isn't massively nerdy but when you hear them talk about getting bored with text and wanting to shoot something, that is cultural. Another studio could well say, "We're going to invest our resources into making 40 page novellas fun." And that all comes down to choices. With Cryptic, there are generally default assumptions that it isn't fun. And I agree, from playing some Foundry missions, it often isn't. But for some studios, they'd be scrambling, saying, "Crud. How do we adjust dialogue displays and text UI to make reading FUN?" Whereas I do feel Cryptic tends to treat it as a default limitation of the genre rather than being dedicated to reinventing video games as something they aren't.
And I'm not sure content alone can do that, so, from that POV, it's true. But if you had the UI team and sound effects and art and systems teams spend six months on making reading fun? I think they could do it. And maybe should. Because I think that's where casual gaming is going. You need to back off of producing games and focus on being an entertainment platform that draws from books and movies and everything else. Being aggressively pro-gaming is puritanical.
Being fans of ANY platform or genre or medium is, I think, a toxic liability. I feel the same way whenever someone calls themselves a "film buff" or says they love the "comics medium." Death to all formats, I say. Focus on a feel you want to evoke and bend and meld whatever tools you have to get that feeling across. Don't be a fan of any format. Not comics. Not films. Not books. Not video games. Any more specific than being a fan of art, in the general sense, is fundamentalism that will eventually limit your audience when you say, "That's not what video games/books/comics/films do."
But all that said, I don't think it's really all that relevant to this thread.
And here's a video, which I am very close to agreeing with regarding UGC and crowd sourcing:
http://youtu.be/DsstOs-K7gk
It's ok up to a point. Because deferring tosomeone's ego will eventually turn them into a territorial monster, prone to throwing tantrums and acting like small children. And if I think, because I'm an adult, that catering to whims of adults (or teens) acting like smallchildren lest they start screaming on the floor is not just wrong but stupid-- if that's all the Foundry issupposed to be -- then Cryptic's in the wrong business.
edit: and since you bring up PvP... "Ego" is so toxic that in League of Legends they had to hire a cognitive neuroscientist and a behavioral psychologist to keep their game from imploding due to bad player behavior.
I probably shouldn't even respond to this, but it's funny, because the truth is I don't want to write for STO. You couldn't pay me enough to do it. I can't even imagine wasting my time writing up doff bios and such. That doesn't interest me at all. I'd rather do just about anything else.
The biggest problem with STO's story is there isn't one. Cryptic stopped making actual storyline missions with any sort of regularity (actually they never even succeeded in making them with any sort of regularity to start with). So, while not seeing what's going on behind the scenes, I really don't think the deficiencies in STO's story development are due to Kestral. Frankly, I agree that whatever they are paying Kestral they should double it.
In the end people have to put food on the table somehow, but I doubt very many people have illusions that writing for an MMO would be a dream job. Or at least it's obvious to me, anyway. I probably shouldn't speak for anyone else.
The nice thing about the Foundry is we can write the type of stories we want. We're not limited to whatever Cryptic or PWE wants.
On another note, I don't know where you see people ranting about how bad STO's writing is. I haven't really seen that anywhere? Sure there is maybe some criticism out there, but it's not like anyone is dwelling on it.
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There were some. Most of them left before the Foundry ever went live.
In general, what I see among Foundry authors is:
- Sympathy for Kestrel
- Adoration of Charles Gray's work
- Respect for Heinig
- Rampant distrust of the Systems Team
If there is a shade of contempt, it's generally directed at Rivera and (much less since he left) Gozer. And I generally liked both guys fairly well although I wind up paranoid that Gozer and/or Rivera are deliberately anti-story if I spend too long on Vent or Skype with enough Foundry authors. The wells of urban legends about both of them runs VERY deep.
The one person (aside from Kirkfat, who's pretty much a Foundry separatist and maybe Nagus) who I can remember seriously ragging on Kestrel is now actually a dev.
- What did you do today, hon? Oh nothing, I gruesomely killed 200 foes and saved the galaxy from a guy who made a monster torpedo.
- What did you do today, hon? Oh nothing, I gruesomely killed 200 foes and saved the galaxy from a guy who made a monster ship.
- What did you do today, hon? Oh nothing, I gruesomely killed 200 foes and saved the galaxy from a guy who made a monster laser beam.
Come on, compared to this the life of a police officer in the traffic department:
- What did you do today, hon? I handed out parking tickets.
- What did you do today, hon? I chased down 2 juveniles who were doing grafitties.
- What did you do today, hon? I helped school children to cross the road.
See, even his life is a lot more versatile than my Captain's.
Also, the fact that everyone can be a double just alienated ALL the NPCs.
Ok, (s)he talks like a warmonger idiot and not a UFP officer, (s)he must be an Undine. Turns out (s)he is a genuine UFP officer.
Finally, a guy who behaves like a real Starfleet officer, ops, there goes the Undine.
And why was my character portrayed as a fanatical, mass murdering maniac who keeps on killing until there is noone left to ask questions from? And the top brass is actually happy with this.
There was little to no continuity. Characters and new plots were introduced out of the blue and then got forgotten completely.
Everything feels so terribly forced that I didn't feel I'm playing at all. Your only contribution to the story is the pressing of the W and the F key. Any sort of brain activity is seriously contra-indicated.
The story is so incoherent that half of the time the only indication you get about the next task is an icon on the map and a storyboard sentence. Call me oldschool, but story writing should be done in a way that you should not need to peek onto the storyboard at all. Actually, the storyboard is something I used to create by noting down important aspects while playing the game. At least it was like this in my EOB and Krondor days.
I'm curious as to how you've come to the notion that this "pride" is diminished ?
How is this accomplished ?
And to be blunt , why should ppl who want to use the Foundry differently "suffer for this pride" .
What if I don't feel like suffering just because I doodle with a pencil , while someone else makes grand vistas via painting or CG art ?
Do those who create more complex creations "own" creativity ?
Have they patented it ?
Not going to go to "pride comes before a fall" -- but you know what -- I will go there .
If the notion that "the Foundry belongs to US !" (i.e. story authors) is not driven by some warped sense of pride , I'll be surprised .
And from that warped world view comes the arrogance that allows certain ppl to think that they have the right to dictate what the foundry can and cannot be used for .
Would you like to be told by other players how to PVP ? How to STF , run , stand still , decorate your ship , your toon etc. ?
I think the answer is no .
And this prideful arrogance is what left me with a bad taste in my mouth .
I have enough Dil . I have enough EC . And I have had enough of ppl presuming to tell other ppl how to play . That's Cryptic's job , not yours .
*yours being a general sense , not you L99)
I agree with everything above except the "economics" bit .
STO lived 1 year (a 1/3 of it's existence) with Clicky's . They did not "need" to go away unless Cryptic decided that they needed less Dill in the market -- something that (SURPRISE !) the Foundry Authors have about as much to do with as non-Foundry authors .
And IMHO , AFK-ers and Grinders fall into that same exact same place -- meaning that they have very little-to-no actual impact on STO's economy .
AFK-ers are not the reason a Mk12 Tac console costs between 20-60 Mil EC .
Greedy players + lousy distribution by Cryptic are the reason for that .
Perhaps these sentinels of Right and Just would like to hound those who are actually turning the EC economy into a nightmare .
I'm not defending them (becauseI believe devs need to be kept at armslength-being "friends" or "imaginary frinds" causes problems) but gameplay does need consideration. For the lesson on that Ill just point vaguely inthe direction of EA's $200,000,000 flop...
I think it does too but it's a bit weird to notice how the systems team honchos get the flak.
I understand it in WoW because those systems guys do a PvP rebalancing every other week.
In STO, there's a feeling that these guys are actively anti-story and that any dev who starts spending a lot of time with the systems team picks up the bug.
Whereas for all the many reasons and excuses people have to rag on the systems guys in WoW, they're actually pretty involved in promoting story there. (See things like tech for a Rashomon-style flashback quest in Cateclysm, for example.)
It's a perception specific to Cryptic's systems team. Real or not, that perception causes Foundry/systems team tension. And fixing problems in business isn't limited to only fixing the real or justified ones. Even if it's ungrounded, a fake or faulty source of tension needs to be addressed SOMEHOW.
I have heard several authors talk about the systems team like they're a gang of guys in leather jackets, actively suppressing and shouting down story-centric development. And sometimes, I do wonder if in Cryptic's "iterative" model, stuff doesn't happen because the systems team has a rigid "game" philosophy.
Cryptic doesn't drag devs in directions they don't want to go. Taco was talking about this the other day. They drop planned directions if a bloc of devs don't like it. I do feel like while I like the individual systems devs for the most part, they are especially "bloc-ish" and drag the game away from anything that they perceive as not being game-like enough.
And I do feel that they're somehow the rockstar team at Cryptic. Which seems unusual to me in terms of organizational structure for an MMO.
9 times out of 10, if a dev says something cranky about the forums or roleplay, it's the systems team. 9 times out of 10, if somebody shows a bias towards PvP and emergent gameplay, it's the systems team.
What do WE, Cryptic and the Community, want the Foundry to be?
I can't compel Cryptic to answer here (or anyone else for that matter) but I have posed the question for this month's Ask Cryptic:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=7945971&postcount=133
I want to understand what the Foundry is for, in Cryptic's eyes. I think I understand, but I'd like to clarify that understanding if I can without putting words in their mouth. I know it matters to them. I want to know why.
Might not get a direct answer, or hear anything different, but it's worth a shot.
For everybody else here, I'd like to know whether I correctly summarized the player groups who are interested in the Foundry:
Foundry Authors
Trek Fans
Gamers
Did I miss anybody in that breakdown? I have my reasons for asking. I want to ask leading questions that may help all of us to express what features and outcomes we're expecting from the Foundry without automatically shooting each other down when there's a difference of opinion. I want to keep things on a more constructive level.
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Though it would be funny and very obscure to make amission starring James Goldstone (alas forbidden!).
May I ask what do you expect their answer to be ?
I'm asking for example because I'm fairly sure that their answer will involve words like "story" and "self expression" and "exploration of the Trek universe" -- while at the same time it will not express any signs of a hope that fans will create story content so Cryptic does not have to , nor any sentiments along the line of being a Beta for NWN .
Perhaps .
But I think that human creativity is like a genie in a bottle .
You may ask the "overseers" for their "intent" till the cows come home -- and I have no doubt that there are some (on both sides of this argument) who are just waiting to point to Cryptic statement to say "see , we were right !!!" -- but no statement will convince everyone .
That's just not possible IMHO , any more then it is to put the genie back in the bottle .
You've touched on the economic situation before , yet you have not chosen to express that in your summery of the player groups .
How about the Hard Pressed Gaming Population ?
Those can be Trekkies as well as Foundry Authors as well as Gamers .
All of them have had a Starbase grind served to them in S.6 , with multiple additional grinds lumped on top of that in S.7 , w/the promise of more on the way .
Tell me , do we need to be segregated into groups for that grind to effect us ?
Is one group effected more than the other ? And if so my how much , and what would that even matter/prove ?
I can only speak for myself , but for the first 2 years of this game , I owned anywhere between 1-3 mill EC . I never needed more , and I was content .
Now I feel I can never be content because I never have enough (EC/Dil) ... and I'm not the only one who feels like that . Not by a longshot !
That artificial pressure comes from Cryptic/PW .
And that artificial pressure is what caused the "invasion" of the Foundry by Grinders .
If you are truely interested in the cause of the Clicky's and the Grinder Missions then start searching for the root for these "problems" .
Do you think that there is a question you can ask Cryptic , that will make them ease up on the pressure cooker they have turned STO into ?
I'm not really sure .
Nor am I sure that an "answer" to Cryptic's "intent" in regards to the Foundry will help straighten out STO's economy -- which I see directly linked to the "need" for Clicky's , Grinders , AFK's and any and all shortcuts to quick profits -- not for personal gain (in most cases) , but to feed the ever mounting Grind .
Sure , some will argue that you don't NEED to grind , but you don't need to go crazy on Black Friday either .
That does not seem to stop the masses in the US it seems .
I'd rather not go there. I'll get a direct answer or I won't.
The Foundry has a reason to exist that justifies Cryptic's and PWE's investment in it. Clearly, the intended outcome is NOT to allow players to play the game in any way that runs counter to their own interests.
You're probably right about that. But any discussion about what the Foundry is supposed to be and to become is missing part of the equation if we aren't very aware of what Cryptic and PWE intend for it. So I asked. I'm sure there are some who don't really care what Cryptic's intentions are, but I'm not one of them.
I wouldn't call the clickies and grinders an "invasion". They were symptoms of those root causes you're referring to. I used the clickies myself, probably for the same reasons everybody else did, so I don't pretend to be a saint. Haven't used the grinders, so allow me to focus on the clickies for a bit.
1. Gathering resources to build starbases and reputations was and is time-consuming and slow and not much fun. The delayed gratification is a little too delayed, if you get me.
2. Clickies were an easy and fast way to accumulate resources using the IOR. This allowed people to get them out of the way faster so they could go back to doing the stuff they really wanted to do.
3. Instant and/or easy gratification is something we're all inclined towards one way or another and some of us more than others.
Cryptic had two choices for dealing with the problem. Lower the grind and/or remove the reward for clickies. And since clickies actually contributed to more than one problem that should concern Cryptic, they (or rather the reward for them) had to go.
I accept that and I understand why it had to be that way, even though I was kind of sad to see them go. They simply run counter to the way that Cryptic intends for the game to be played, and I believe there are sound reasons why they have to limit what some of us are calling exploits. They were an unintended loophole in the system that they never meant for anyone to take advantage of.
To Cryptic's credit, they've actually increased the rate at which they give out rewards for more kinds of content than they did before. And, to some degree, they decreased some of the individual sinks. They really had to, since they increased the number of sinks.
But, yes, in my opinion the economy is still a mess and buying anything worth getting is way out of reach of anybody but people with money and/or time to burn. That, or the cunning to find ways to take advantage of the system for profit.
Yes, the game intentionally creates psychological tension to accumulate these resources and gates our ability to get them. You need to do it all, but you simply don't have the time to do it all. It's part of what creates a demand that drives sales and makes free-to-play work. It's no different, really, from what marketers and advertisers do to us every day. But at least some of them are honestly trying to provide value, and I believe that's also true of Cryptic. I know there are many who disagree with me about that, and I'm not going to try to argue them out of their own honest opinions.
I'm also not interested in trying to argue with people who hold the opinion that the clickies and grinders are fair, necessary, and harmless. I disagree, but they have the right to their opinion. What matters is that Cryptic decided these weren't working out the way they intended, they got rid of them, and very likely every player is just going to have to accept it and move on, or go play something else for awhile.
But... Cryptic is listening. They're watching this thread. Maybe someone has a good and logical proposal or position that will convince them to change things again, in a different way. But let's not turn it into a bunch of nasty arguments.
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Maybe I'm in a minority, but I like grinders.. at least the ground variety. I have a great deal of fun figuring out what boff combinations are successful and what boff combinations aren't. I can exclude myself from the combat and observe.. then refine my strategy and try again until I have the best boffs I can build.
This is a form of gameplay that isn't available anywhere else in the game, and I really enjoy it. I also enjoy getting fleet marks and dilithium out of the deal. This makes the foundry valuable to me, because I am getting a lot of benefit from it.
I also enjoy playing story missions, but I seldom repeat them because I already know the story once I've played.
Another benefit of the foundry for me is that I don't have to collect a group of people to play with. I can just log on and go, no hassle. If I want to, I can log on and grab some quick flarks and dil, have a little fun, and log off. No assembling a team, no queueing, no getting sandbagged by punks who park in the corner and make you do all the work a man short.
That's just me. Leave the foundry the way it is.
Give the authors more tools to create greater stories in depth.
Establish rules for what an acceptable mission is and isn't, and then stick by them and stop changing them every patch.
That's at least what I want to see.
Untrue.
Said it before, will say it again until the screen on my iphone cracks: Nobody told the players to get on the Fleet Hamster Wheel. And aside from the ego boost provided by the fleet ships and PvP there's no reason to start. Cryptic dangled a shiney in front of you all and you jumped at it without looking at the pit at your feet.
Players found an exploit to replace the previous exploit. Cryptic nerfed it as they should have. There's no reason to take arguments against that seriously.
The real discussion should be about how to get that timid creature tool back into the hands of the authors and not "Hao me get all nao yu nerf, Cryptic?" To me changing the loot table is the best way to go about it. But I don't know how the coding for this game works. That might be impossible. It might not be.
But if they want UGC to be part of the game's appeal, I think putting in the work for it would be wise.
The fleet is different because other people are counting on your efforts, but even then, if I were in a fleet that were making me miserable by putting a stupid amount of pressure on its members, I would find another one.
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To those that sought to bring reasonable discussion and to calm the passions involved thank you. This is a vital topic.
When i started reaching higher levels in the game I was shocked at how much grinding was involved. I was contemplating quitting the game because I would simply never be able to play enough to catch up. When they changed the daily into a half hour quest I was relieved and thought it was done to provide that relief.
The debate about playing a game the 'right' was is a long one. in Everquest you were supposed to assemble swarms of players to take down touch enemies paying experience each time you died for that loot. The 'Vision' changed though. In my opinion this game's vision will change too.
That all said, on to more productive things. My thoughts on resolving the conflict.
In a perfect world the solution would be a coding one. An algorythm to make rewards from the quest based off something like;
Slain/#slain + clicks-Speedofclick + time-timeafk = Y/3 = SomeNumberThatIsAppliedToTheDilAndMarks
And add in a check when a mob is passive and have it say if true no loot. Thats one way that would code in the rewards desired without messing things up and once the code is done the numbers can be nosed around to tweak them to optimal levels. Be it just below STF/InGameQuesting rewards (my pick) or the same or above levels.
The problem is programmers are expensive and their staffing is likely going to be an issue. The company is budgeting right now and would have to show it would produce a positive cash flow. I think they could by making the Foundry attractive to play the story in, especially if they add into this $1 map packs with 15-20 items in it and a set up setting to use.
So if a large amount of coding isn't likely to be the answer the next step down in my mind would be a reworking of the UI for the Foundry.
Add in the mentioned encoded tags. fears aside I think it will work out with the foundry's 5 star system so mislabeled missions fail. Especially if you strip the stars and runs when the tags are changed.
Make it so their divided up by these types or not as selected by the player. For an example use the DOff UI in how it lists them and you can break them up based on being an advisor and so on.
Also a in game quest to go see Sulu
In order to fix the 'problem' of cash grinding off ships you should seek the root of the problem. STO is not a closed economy. Money comes in but doesnt leave so it stays in circulation leading to inflation leading those who want to make purchases to need to find ways to make more money as theirs literally becomes less valuable each day they hold on to it. So dont mess with loot drops instead fix the economy and things should smooth themselves out. Shoot holes in the bucket to let the EC out
Are AFK missions with your BOFFs fighting a problem? That's a sticky question since we already get Dil, xp, etc when not playing the game through our DOffs. A simple solution can be borrowed form other games. Add a programming line before the loot roll/XP grant; if player damage = true then loot if = false no roll. There's ways around it but we're seeking to set a minimum level of involvement in playing the game and that would make it less easy to run for cash but still useful if you wanted to play one.
I love the foundry for the many different sorts of game play I have at my fingertips. A friend pointed me to a space grinder that has some really hillarious dialog and I'm happy I tried. I hope Cryptic can find a solution that will manage to serve everyone their own special burger instead of saying one table of customers must eat cake.
P.S. A way to check authors would be grand - I am terribly curious what stoleviathan99 and others have written.
The Stars are Mine.
This is something we're almost certainly getting, since it's been added to the Foundry for Neverwinter. I'm very much looking forward to it.