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Feedback about 3yr Party Popper and Balloons

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    thedoctorblueboxthedoctorbluebox Member Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    You sir, are an TRIBBLE. The game is here for everyone to enjoy, not just griefers, not just folk with thousands of dollars worth of computer, but everyone. You can enjoy the game without the balloons -- you did before the popper was instigated -- so quit your whining and accept the fact that the majority of people, and most of those don't even bother posting because of attitudes like yours and others in this thread, are unable to enjoy the game as they did before the balloons were instigated. I can't. And no, I should not have to alter my settings to allow you to cause havoc wherever you feel the urge. My settings run the game just fine. The balloons are not the game -- the exploring, the missions, the STF's, the socializing, and the RP ... they are the game. It is an MMORPG, a Massive Multi-user Online Role Plaing Game. See, Multi-user, not just a few, and Role Playing Game, not balloon griefing. Balloons are not Role Playing. Griefing is not Role Playing. The way the majority of balloon gun owners use them to cause grief is bullying and I decry Cryptic for allowing that bullying to take place in their game.

    I'm an TRIBBLE for wanting the game to have a continually improved gameplay experience? That's new.

    See, I'm about wanting this game to improve, graphically. I'm a big graphics guy, I'm all about computer graphics, 3d effects, and the acceleration of said effects via CPU/GPU. I want Cryptic to implement new 3D features under DX11, such as tessellation, advanced HDAO, DirectCompute global illumination, real time soft shadows, particle systems that don't clip, high resolution textures, etc....

    Thing is, when/if these things are implemented, it is going to mean at your current graphics settings in-game the performance will go down. This will mean you will have to lower your graphics settings to get performance back up to what you were use to. But that is OK. That is the nature of hardware. The faster cpu/gpu you have, the better ability to run with those features enabled.

    The point is scaling. You will still be able to scale the graphics down to what is playable on your machine. But if you are lucky enough to afford a high-end CPU/GPU then you can experience the game with the maximum graphic settings, and enjoy these new things. This is how PC gaming has operated since its introduction. Those with the faster hardware can run at the higher resolutions, graphics settings. Those with lesser hardware, have to turn options down.

    In this way, this is similar to the balloons. The balloons were a graphical effect, physics/shaders/polygon count. It was a new effect, and it hurt your current graphics performance because it was a new, and better graphical effect. Your hardware isn't capable of running it smoothly, thus, you turn down graphics settings. But for those that have the cpu/gpu capable of rendering them, they should be allowed to enjoy them. My point is, don't punish us, with capable systems, when there is a way for the user to already adjust their graphics settings and obtain playable performance. The way is built into the game, and its through lowering the particle/debris system. Therefore, let those who can run it, enjoy it, and those that can't run it, turn down the appropriate setting. It isn't a hard thing to do.
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    amayakitsuneamayakitsune Member Posts: 977 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I'm an TRIBBLE for wanting the game to have a continually improved gameplay experience? That's new.

    I certainly cant agree with what was said about you in this regard... but there are some very snobbish qualities about suggesting that people with low end computers should need to turn down their graphics setting which is how they have been enjoying the game for 3 years all for your enjoyment.
    See, I'm about wanting this game to improve, graphically. I'm a big graphics guy, I'm all about computer graphics, 3d effects, and the acceleration of said effects via CPU/GPU. I want Cryptic to implement new 3D features under DX11, such as tessellation, advanced HDAO, DirectCompute global illumination, real time soft shadows, particle systems that don't clip, high resolution textures, etc....

    Thing is, when/if these things are implemented, it is going to mean at your current graphics settings in-game the performance will go down. This will mean you will have to lower your graphics settings to get performance back up to what you were use to. But that is OK. That is the nature of hardware. The faster cpu/gpu you have, the better ability to run with those features enabled.

    Thats great. I think Cryptic should do all those things too... but if they do do it under DX11... people can choose which renderer to use. And in some cases, they may only get the DX9 renderer as an option. Thats fine, thats evolving the game, and thats not doing it at the expense of what is likely a sizable portion of their user base.

    Whats happened here is that users who were running the game perfectly ok for 3 years, have had a "feature" (and I hesitate to call it that, because if it hadnt been added, no one would be crying FOR balloons) thrust upon them, and hurting their enjoyment of a game, in some cases severely.
    The point is scaling. You will still be able to scale the graphics down to what is playable on your machine. But if you are lucky enough to afford a high-end CPU/GPU then you can experience the game with the maximum graphic settings, and enjoy these new things. This is how PC gaming has operated since its introduction. Those with the faster hardware can run at the higher resolutions, graphics settings. Those with lesser hardware, have to turn options down.

    PC gaming has never had a developer implement a graphics hindering option into a game 3 years into its lifespan. Not once that I can remember. They generally avoid it, because when people cant play their game... they start to lose fans and then they start to lose money. Even Crysis, which at the time was developed for the most cutting edge hardware didnt do nearly as well as the developers had hoped for. Its just not profitable to develop for the highest edge tech.

    And MMOs, especially F2P MMOs, dont have the luxury of developing for cutting edge graphics. They need to reach the most amount of users possible... and keep them happy so they will still spend money and keep the game alive, otherwise its just useless.
    In this way, this is similar to the balloons. The balloons were a graphical effect, physics/shaders/polygon count. It was a new effect, and it hurt your current graphics performance because it was a new, and better graphical effect. Your hardware isn't capable of running it smoothly, thus, you turn down graphics settings. But for those that have the cpu/gpu capable of rendering them, they should be allowed to enjoy them. My point is, don't punish us, with capable systems, when there is a way for the user to already adjust their graphics settings and obtain playable performance. The way is built into the game, and its through lowering the particle/debris system. Therefore, let those who can run it, enjoy it, and those that can't run it, turn down the appropriate setting. It isn't a hard thing to do.

    Again... and heres the kicker... I ran this game for 2 years just fine at the same graphics settings that I am still using today. Nothing has changed in my system or the game, except for the balloons. My hardware is perfectly capable of running the game smoothly except when the room Im standing in is filled with balloons. My enjoyment of the game is being hindered by these balloons, and would be hindered by me turing my settings down. So why does my enjoyment have to suffer when yours doesnt?


    EDIT: Whats even worse... is that Cryptic didnt see this coming.
    7NGGeUP.png

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    marshalericdavidmarshalericdavid Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    The minority should not be allowed to annoy the hell out of people. I don't want a room full of balloons at all. I hate navigating a room full of balloons. I don't want to change setting so I don't have to see them when that change in setting will effect other things that are not annoying. Improved graphics are fine balloons full in a room are not especially when many people get massive lagging problems from it.
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    bonwatnambonwatnam Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Resolved an issue that allowed some of the 3-year party popper balloons to be much larger than intended.

    Very good, so you did, however, you also added an issue where the 3 year party popper doesn't work at all, releasing no balloons.

    Please stop changing stuff that doesn't need changing, A) it a waste of time, B) you didn't fix it, you broke it even more.

    Don't try to "fix" the party popper, instead concentrate on far longer standing, and wider ranging bugs that affect large numbers of players, such disconnections and lag, console interactions for short characters, chat channel bugs making them go missing, the dominion bug ship (well named thus), being randomly transported to the shipyard rather than qonos, bridge officers spawning offmap, and many more.

    Worrying about how big a balloon is, is senseless, when you seem so uninterested in all of the above issues.
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    abaddon653abaddon653 Member Posts: 1,144 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Wahhh?? I thought the huge balloons where part of the deal, its a freaking present from Q after all, come one put it back the big balloons where fun, some friends and I where even making a new sport involving the big balloons.
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    janusforbearejanusforbeare Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Despite what's been said, the party popper balloons aren't always smaller (picture was taken at 9:20 EST on Feb. 7 - in other words, after the patch).

    I consider this a victory for the Empire.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    janusforbearejanusforbeare Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I love these assumptions that the people who think the balloons are fun are the minority. Where's your hard data? Or is "the minority" just a synonym for "people who disagree with me"?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Despite what's been said, the party popper balloons aren't always smaller (picture was taken at 9:20 EST on Feb. 7 - in other words, after the patch).

    I consider this a victory for the Empire.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, You win the thread
    GwaoHAD.png
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    marshalericdavidmarshalericdavid Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I love these assumptions that the people who think the balloons are fun are the minority. Where's your hard data? Or is "the minority" just a synonym for "people who disagree with me"?

    The minority are the ones who spam the balloons like crazy. Their are only a few I have seen who do it that is how I know it is the minority because most don't spam rooms full of balloons. Go anywhere and you will see most people do not do it. Making a balloon here and their is ok but when a room is full of them then their is a problem.
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    bonwatnambonwatnam Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I don't know why my thread has been combined with this one, its not feedback, its a bug report, the thing no longer works...
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    janusforbearejanusforbeare Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Aww, threads got merged and now I look like a double-posting jerk. Oh well.
    The minority are the ones who spam the balloons like crazy. Their are only a few I have seen who do it that is how I know it is the minority because most don't spam rooms full of balloons. Go anywhere and you will see most people do not do it. Making a balloon here and their is ok but when a room is full of them then their is a problem.

    I understand that it can get a little excessive sometimes, but that's nothing new to STO or any other MMO. I mean, hang around outside DS9, ESD, or Q'onos for five minutes and you'll see people spamming fireworks, triggering AOE abilities, launching hangar pets, etc. There's also the people who get excited by the fact that they have spacebars and jump everywhere. All those things annoy me to a certain extent, but I'm not going to beg the devs to take them out of the game. I'm just going to sigh, shrug, and look in a different direction.

    Balloons are no different. Some people might say, "But the LAG! The LAG!" Well, turning down your max physical debris objects setting doesn't affect a whole lot of the game. People are making a big deal out of having to turn down their settings to not see the balloons, but I've yet to hear of a single practical detriment to gameplay because of it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    marshalericdavidmarshalericdavid Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Aww, threads got merged and now I look like a double-posting jerk. Oh well.



    I understand that it can get a little excessive sometimes, but that's nothing new to STO or any other MMO. I mean, hang around outside DS9, ESD, or Q'onos for five minutes and you'll see people spamming fireworks, triggering AOE abilities, launching hangar pets, etc. There's also the people who get excited by the fact that they have spacebars and jump everywhere. All those things annoy me to a certain extent, but I'm not going to beg the devs to take them out of the game. I'm just going to sigh, shrug, and look in a different direction.

    Balloons are no different. Some people might say, "But the LAG! The LAG!" Well, turning down your max physical debris objects setting doesn't affect a whole lot of the game. People are making a big deal out of having to turn down their settings to not see the balloons, but I've yet to hear of a single practical detriment to gameplay because of it.

    I should not have to change settings to be able to see where I am going in a room. Setting off fireworks and other stuff may be a little annoying but not even close to a room full of balloons. The fact a room full of balloons causing massive lagging issues just makes it worse and that is in need of fixing.
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    bonwatnambonwatnam Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I should not have to change settings to be able to see where I am going in a room. Setting off fireworks and other stuff may be a little annoying but not even close to a room full of balloons. The fact a room full of balloons causing massive lagging issues just makes it worse and that is in need of fixing.

    In truth, anyone not able to run the game on maximum setting, already has to reduce their settings in order to play, so using this as a reason to have altered the party popper isn't really valid, unless you object to any game content that requires people to not run the game on maximum settings.

    Also, you say it needed fixing, they didn't fix it, they made it entirely none functional. And there are a lot of other things that need fixing, and in some cases, have needed fixing for 6 months or more.
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    janusforbearejanusforbeare Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    bonwatnam wrote: »
    Also, you say it needed fixing, they didn't fix it, they made it entirely none functional. And there are a lot of other things that need fixing, and in some cases, have needed fixing for 6 months or more.

    And, as shown in the pic I posted above, the fix didn't achieve its goals. I never created a balloon as big as the one in the pic until after the patch (it's about 30% bigger than the previous "large" balloons). All the patch did was prevent us from creating balloons while moving, and slightly reduce the average size.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    marshalericdavidmarshalericdavid Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    bonwatnam wrote: »
    In truth, anyone not able to run the game on maximum setting, already has to reduce their settings in order to play, so using this as a reason to have altered the party popper isn't really valid, unless you object to any game content that requires people to not run the game on maximum settings.

    Also, you say it needed fixing, they didn't fix it, they made it entirely none functional. And there are a lot of other things that need fixing, and in some cases, have needed fixing for 6 months or more.

    I have been able to run the game on max settings with a little lag here and their but something about the balloons causes lots of problems. I don't want to lower settings because of a few jerks spamming a room full of balloons. A few jerks spamming rooms full of balloons should not be allowed to win by either driving players away from the game or forcing them to change something that only needs changing when their are room full of balloons.
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    bonwatnambonwatnam Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I have been able to run the game on max settings with a little lag here and their but something about the balloons causes lots of problems. I don't want to lower settings because of a few jerks spamming a room full of balloons. A few jerks spamming rooms full of balloons should not be allowed to win by either driving players away from the game or forcing them to change something that only needs changing when their are room full of balloons.

    the fix doesn't affect the number of balloons in any way, its made mine not work at all, but others say it hasn't even fixed big balloons either. so, you can still get rooms full of balloons, even big ones.

    I think they should just leave it alone, and fix other more important things.
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    marshalericdavidmarshalericdavid Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    bonwatnam wrote: »
    the fix doesn't affect the number of balloons in any way, its made mine not work at all, but others say it hasn't even fixed big balloons either. so, you can still get rooms full of balloons, even big ones.

    I think they should just leave it alone, and fix other more important things.

    If rooms full of balloons causing lagging issues continues as bad as it was before then it should not be ignored. So far today I have not seen balloons like I had before hoping it stays that way.
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    hravikhravik Member Posts: 1,203 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Its not the general balloons that bug me. Its the ones that jump on the console in the exchange, right in front of a crowd, and continually spam the balloons. Or follow people around on station and spam them, or stop right on top of someone and spam them right in their face.

    I can't imagine a train of thought that leads one to think, you know what...I always wanted to stand in this exact spot and throw balloons. No, this is intentionally trying to bug the TRIBBLE out of others. There are no other explanations as to why someone would do that.
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    bonwatnambonwatnam Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    hravik wrote: »
    Its not the general balloons that bug me. Its the ones that jump on the console in the exchange, right in front of a crowd, and continually spam the balloons. Or follow people around on station and spam them, or stop right on top of someone and spam them right in their face.

    I can't imagine a train of thought that leads one to think, you know what...I always wanted to stand in this exact spot and throw balloons. No, this is intentionally trying to bug the TRIBBLE out of others. There are no other explanations as to why someone would do that.

    The same people intentionally derail stfs, spam character abilities, ect. You can't "bug fix" these issues. Being responsive to complaints regarding specific players is the only answer.
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    hravikhravik Member Posts: 1,203 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    bonwatnam wrote: »
    The same people intentionally derail stfs, spam character abilities, ect. You can't "bug fix" these issues. Being responsive to complaints regarding specific players is the only answer.

    Simple fix would be just to make it so that when I put someone on ignore it never auto groups me with them, and not only do I not see what they type, I can't see them or their effects at all.

    But that sounds like more work than Cryptic is willing to put in.
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    blevokblevok Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    the minority is the people who complain. and since the forum represents a very small percentage of players, and only a small number of that small number are complaining, it's safe to say that the complainers are definitely the minority.

    for the record, i, an outspoken balloon lover, am on a low end machine. dual core amd 2.2ghz, and a 50 dollar gfx card. i've adjusted my settings just to be able to play the game, and after about 5 minutes in-game, i get that low memory, running on reduced textures message. and i love the balloons, especially the huge ones. if the lag is too much, or i've got "important" things to do... i change instances.
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    dazzajdazzaj Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    If you are getting lag like I am when 10 people all start firing them at once in a confined space,

    just go to the Game Settings,
    [Video] settings,
    tick "Show Advanced Settings"

    then set Max Physics Debris Objects to 0.

    Screenshot: http://www.potholestudios.com/ForumsPro/download/id=1129.html
    This setting will stop any balloons from appearing.
    Have Fun!
    _______________________________________________
    5,000+ Hours in STO? Yes, Yes i do.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Fleet Leader of "Icarus Factor" - The official fleet of Pothole Studios.
    STO Guides for your Android? Yes. Yes we do. STO Guides - Google Play.
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    edna#7310 edna Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    i have a pretty good system, probably better than the average player and usually they are fine. until i found someone filled up DS9 cargo hold with about a hundred and then even mine started to struggle.

    perhaps they just need a shorter life cycle. so they dont stick around too long.

    or perhaps those balloons/physics should use the GPU not CPU.
    I hate when my graphics card sits in the pc cold and unused (till I see a patch of white glowing bloom which heats the graphics card and makes all programers facepalm) and everything else is done with the help of my CPU.I understand that they try to make the game work on laptops but seriously ....

    P.S.and I always like to remember how the UI (which people will see more than balloons) is cpu heavy ,laggy ,ugly ,buggy and urgent need of change :rolleyes:
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    thedoctorblueboxthedoctorbluebox Member Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dazzaj wrote: »
    If you are getting lag like I am when 10 people all start firing them at once in a confined space,

    just go to the Game Settings,
    [Video] settings,
    tick "Show Advanced Settings"

    then set Max Physics Debris Objects to 0.

    Screenshot: http://www.potholestudios.com/ForumsPro/download/id=1129.html
    This setting will stop any balloons from appearing.
    Have Fun!

    Yep, it is easy, problem is, people in this thread are saying they shouldn't have to do that.

    But I disagree with them, I think you should, if your graphics settings are too high, and a new effect is not playable, then lower them. That is how PC gaming has worked, since forever.

    So yes, I think you should have to turn down your graphics settings if your PC isn't capable of rendering them fast enough.

    Do it, and the problem is solved, and everyone gets what they want, you don't get balloons, and the people that do want them, get them. It's in the users control that way.
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    selraxxxselraxxx Member Posts: 89 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    syberghost wrote: »
    This. The solution is in your hands, party popper poopers.

    Nobody's saying spend more money on your box; but use the settings to make what you have work. Games progress in their requirements over time; what worked last month might not work this month.

    No. The real point is that Cryptic loves the Griefers, until everyone realizes that fact the lag poppers and the above advice will make no sense.

    So, YOU adjust your settings, ignore the bugs and the griefers and keep farming, grinding and buying the pay2win toys. The poor griefers are only having fun...
    ... at your expense.

    Sound about right?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    janusforbearejanusforbeare Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    selraxxx wrote: »
    Sound about right?

    Nope. Because you've been told many, many times how to make the problem go away. As one of the above posters stated, adjusting your video settings for the best performance has been standard practice for gamers for decades (and as I've already stated, max phys. object settings really don't affect much of the game). Get over yourself - no one is trying to grief you. The people playing with the balloons are not even thinking about you. They're just having fun with a new toy.

    Of course, this argument has been going on for so long, and people have become so entrenched in their positions, that I don't expect that any amount of rational arguments or civil debate will ever put an end to it. So go ahead, keep complaining about how Cryptic "loves the griefers". I'm sure that the devs spend many hours plotting in their underground lairs, drinking puppy blood and making sinister finger pyramids as they come up with new ways to annoy you.

    Just don't expect anything to come of it. Whining and finger-pointing rarely gets results.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Nope. Because you've been told many, many times how to make the problem go away. As one of the above posters stated, adjusting your video settings for the best performance has been standard practice for gamers for decades (and as I've already stated, max phys. object settings really don't affect much of the game). Get over yourself - no one is trying to grief you. The people playing with the balloons are not even thinking about you. They're just having fun with a new toy.

    Of course, this argument has been going on for so long, and people have become so entrenched in their positions, that I don't expect that any amount of rational arguments or civil debate will ever put an end to it. So go ahead, keep complaining about how Cryptic "loves the griefers". I'm sure that the devs spend many hours plotting in their underground lairs, drinking puppy blood and making sinister finger pyramids as they come up with new ways to annoy you.

    Just don't expect anything to come of it. Whining and finger-pointing rarely gets results.
    Don't forget the mustache twirling and diabolical laughter!

    Mwahahaa!!!!

    Anyways, I did notice a minor bug with the balloon gun that makes it sometimes blow balloons out both ends. Sometimes giant balloons....
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    sniper1187sniper1187 Member Posts: 251 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    selraxxx wrote: »
    No. The real point is that Cryptic loves the Griefers, until everyone realizes that fact the lag poppers and the above advice will make no sense.

    So, YOU adjust your settings, ignore the bugs and the griefers and keep farming, grinding and buying the pay2win toys. The poor griefers are only having fun...
    ... at your expense.

    Sound about right?

    What's bad is that poster is calling names as well, "party popper poopers"

    The fact that he is a Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online Forums should be noted.
    "Nuke the entire site from orbit--it's the only way to be sure"
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    hanoverhanover Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Because you've been told many, many times how to make the problem go away.

    And that's really helpful after a room full of balloons has brought the game to a halt, leaving you unable to change instances or fiddle with graphics settings.

    Nope, sorry. My system runs every other part of the game just fine, and it is not worth gimping the rest of it to accommodate some balloons. So, tough. You've been deprived of your griefing tool. Get over it.
    Does Arc install a root kit? Ask a Dev today!
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    janusforbearejanusforbeare Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Again...

    Reducing your max phys debris object settings won't gimp your game, because:

    A) You don't have to set it to zero, just reduce it below 100. Many people have found that 10-25 works for them.

    B) The number of places where the mechanic is used is extremely minimal. As far as I can tell, it only affects balloons and turret/device debris. Maybe starbase tribbles too.

    Also, nice of you to assume that I'm running around spamming balloons in people's faces and trying to ruin their day. Just because I enjoy playing with the party popper on occasion does not, by extension, make me a griefer. But the fact that you're getting upset enough over this to resort to baseless assumptions and accusations of griefing is making me chuckle.

    And lastly, no one's been deprived of anything. As I've said before, all the patch did was prevent us from moving while making balloons and slightly reduce their average size. We can still make as many as before, and some of them are even bigger than they used to be. So I'm not complaining.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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