Bluegeek, I forgive you for locking the Hakaishin Dreadnought thread despite the on topic convo in it with this post.
You've done some good summing up of the problem.
Oddly, I did like mine at Lvl 30, and still have it, and it's actually one of my more powerful cruisers, even if it's rough for a ship design. But between it and my Dreadnought, both have builds I've been tweaking for a long time.
I always thought giving equal Sci and Engie footing for Boff stations would really help it out. The Lt. Tac Station would be evened out by a Lt. Cdr Engi and Sci stations, with LT Eng and Sci added on. That would give it more sci strength on top of Eng strength that is there, with still some remaining tac ability.
Wouldn't that give it more of a proper Galaxy class explorer feeling?
If the LT Sci and Engie are too much, downgrade to Ensign Eng and Sci?
Weyland-Yutani Joint Space Venture - Always open to new members!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
You know, I was thinking about this the other day when for the first time in about six months I took my Gal-R out of the shipyard (of course, this was only to take a screenshot of it :rolleyes:), and I think I figured out what my biggest problem with the ship is.
And you know what? It has nothing to do with the ship being a slow turner. It has nothing to with it being Tac starved. It has nothing to do with how the ship looked in canon.
The problem is that the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit has no reason to exist within the Fed Cruiser Lineup.
What does this ship do? It takes damage. Not the most fun role, but I'll take it. Now, if it were the only cruiser directed at this goal, things might be okay... but the cruiser line up is saturated with options, so the ECR has some competition. The Star Cruiser is very similar, for example - but it gets a valuable sci ensign, better 4th sci console, and turns better to boot. Much more durable than the old Explorer. If you want the exact ECR boff layout for some reason... a Sci Oddy (or even an Eng Oddy) has you covered.
The Exploration Cruiser Retrofit is redundant. It offers nothing that cannot be found elsewhere; from a pure gameplay driven point of view, this is an option that brings nothing to the table.
Well, that's not entirely true... it has one thing over other cruisers. It has the highest hull value, at 44,000 on the fleet version. Now, it's closest counterpart is the Fleet Ambassador... at 43,450. So that's a difference of 550 hull.
... 550. This in a game where people toss around numbers like 10,000 DPS and up like they're ping pong balls. When that Borg torpedo hits your hull for 127K damage (this actually happened to me once ), is that tiny bit more hull going to matter? Is it ever going to matter?
Why use a Exploration Cruiser Retrofit? What does it offer, from a gameplay perspective? Other ships do anything it can, but better. It has a high hull value, but if that's all you care about, you're probably flying a Jem Dread or an Obelisk anyway. As I said, this particular ship has no reason to exist. If it were removed tomorrow, no option or gameplay style would suddenly be missing from the Fed Cruiser lineup.
And when this complete waste of a ship layout is given to the single most seen ship class in Star Trek canon?
Well, let's just say it probably wasn't the best idea Cryptic's ever had...:rolleyes:
Personally, I think they need to go back to the drawing board on the Galaxy. And take a better look at TNG with an eye toward where this ship fits in the taxonomy.
As an "Exploration" cruiser, you'd think it would have more of a science focus. And that would fit rather well with many of the storylines featuring the Enterprise-D.
A lot of other storylines in TNG involved Geordi or somebody else coming up with some radical ship modification to solve a problem or to save the ship from certain doom. There was definitely a strong vibe of "we can solve anything with technology".
the canon is always the best place to look for inspiration and parameters for how the ship should be. when in combat it functioned like a full sized battleship, wile exploring its like a research university, when its making contact is a full service embassy, as its cruising along between destinations its a luxury liner with your family members just a few decks away. its the best at everything at once in canon, yet its the worst at everything in game. its tactical prowess is well understood, it has the bigest guns by far and puts out far more firepower on numerous ocations then the sovereign or defiant or any other fed ship has been seen capable of, its larger then any other class by an order of magnitude, each ship was designed to last at least 100 years, and it gets a complete overhaul every 20 years with constant upgrades and refits in between.
the odyssey should basically be the same thing, only 35% larger with newer bones. in their infinite wisdom though, the odessy ship model has short for its size, split up arrays. if we apply canon rules to that fact its underguned for its size. though honestly that fits its stats fairly well.
You know, I was thinking about this the other day when for the first time in about six months I took my Gal-R out of the shipyard (of course, this was only to take a screenshot of it :rolleyes:), and I think I figured out what my biggest problem with the ship is.
And you know what? It has nothing to do with the ship being a slow turner. It has nothing to with it being Tac starved. It has nothing to do with how the ship looked in canon.
The problem is that the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit has no reason to exist within the Fed Cruiser Lineup.
What does this ship do? It takes damage. Not the most fun role, but I'll take it. Now, if it were the only cruiser directed at this goal, things might be okay... but the cruiser line up is saturated with options, so the ECR has some competition. The Star Cruiser is very similar, for example - but it gets a valuable sci ensign, better 4th sci console, and turns better to boot. Much more durable than the old Explorer. If you want the exact ECR boff layout for some reason... a Sci Oddy (or even an Eng Oddy) has you covered.
The Exploration Cruiser Retrofit is redundant. It offers nothing that cannot be found elsewhere; from a pure gameplay driven point of view, this is an option that brings nothing to the table.
Well, that's not entirely true... it has one thing over other cruisers. It has the highest hull value, at 44,000 on the fleet version. Now, it's closest counterpart is the Fleet Ambassador... at 43,450. So that's a difference of 550 hull.
... 550. This in a game where people toss around numbers like 10,000 DPS and up like they're ping pong balls. When that Borg torpedo hits your hull for 127K damage (this actually happened to me once ), is that tiny bit more hull going to matter? Is it ever going to matter?
Why use a Exploration Cruiser Retrofit? What does it offer, from a gameplay perspective? Other ships do anything it can, but better. It has a high hull value, but if that's all you care about, you're probably flying a Jem Dread or an Obelisk anyway. As I said, this particular ship has no reason to exist. If it were removed tomorrow, no option or gameplay style would suddenly be missing from the Fed Cruiser lineup.
And when this complete waste of a ship layout is given to the single most seen ship class in Star Trek canon?
Well, let's just say it probably wasn't the best idea Cryptic's ever had...:rolleyes:
this is exactly why i propose these changes to the galaxy R
COM eng LTC uni
LT uni LT sci
ENS sci
4/3/3 consoles
this would give the galaxy a reason to exist, it also tottaly fits the ship from canon. it presents several tantalizing options
LTC tac, run it as a tac cruiser: this would hardly be a strech, given the canon behind the ship, for it to have high end tac skill potentual. its a popular build style, but it wont step on any toes. lets say you want to use the galaxy, and you want to run a nice AtB tac build on it, well you certainly can no problem. compared to every single other cruiser option out there with a LTC tac though, it comes out at the bottom. every single other LTC tac cruiser has ether more turn rate, or more tac consoles, or both. so theres no harm done at all, no sales stolen from the avenger or something, a totally different and superior tactical animal.
ether LTC or LT used for sci, or both: truly uncharted territory for a big cruiser, being able to go tac-less, and go totally hardcore into sci healing and or CC. this has drawbacks and advantages plenty, like no TT available if the LT isnt used for tac. this would be were the ship would truly have a reason to exist in game, be totally unique among cruisers. its what such an iconic ship deserves.
this station setup, on this ship is far from outrageous. its the same type the temporal ships have, the voth sci ship has a LTC and LT uni along with another LTC station, and every single new ship for more then 2 years have universal stations standard issue. and whats most important is what you can do with your universal stations, not which you have. universals that present you with basically false choices might as well not be universal at all.
If Cryptic is too lazy to rework the Galaxy's layout then they should at least make a special weapon console that is exclusive to Exlporer-class and Star Cruiser class cruisers that would bring up beam weapon or projectile damage to be equal with having 3 weapon consoles. Two of these special weapon consoles would be like having 3 very rare weapon consoles.
The problem with a "rework" still is that the Galaxy is part of the trinity three pack. They took the three hero ships of the TNG shows and put them into an MMO role. Reworking one ship would mean reworking all ships. And that is even more unlikely to happen than to change just one ship.
Further, DDIS's proposed change does radically change a 4 year old ship. I like the idea to a degree (we have our differences) but I can't see that change happen without any basis besides "this ship should be the best at everything". Which it really shouldn't, in STOs lore it's outdated by at least four other cruisers. This is indeed a tricky task, but I had another idea.
I mentioned before that I don't understand why the Refit line-up of the three hero ships is limited to T4, thus making them effectively useless (That topic did come up recently). Further, people that bought those refits not only because of their console and looks but also the gameplay that comes with them are screwed, because after the four hours you play at T4 it's "bye bye" - no possiblity to continue to play with their favourite ship.
What about merging the retrofits and refits into one ship class?
For example:
The Exploration Cruiser Retrofit is the T5 version of the Explorer. The Refit is a more science oriented T4 version. If we would advance the Refit to T5 we would get a CMDR Eng, LTC Sci, LT Sci, LT Tac, Ens Sci layout, right? So, what if the T5 Retrofit would offer the following:
CMDR Eng
LTC S-Uni (Semi-Universal: Eng/Sci exclusive)
LT Sci
LT Tac
Ens Uni (This is a nod from the Negh'Var)
Consoles: 4/3/2 Fleet: +1 S-Uni (Eng/Sci)
This way the T5 version would incorporate both T4 variants, nobody would be butthurt because his old setup wouldn't work anymore and the ship wouldn't be a danger for the tac heavy bestsellers in the Z-Store.
The same would apply to the other ships, meaning:
Intrepid:
CMDR Sci
LTC S-Uni Eng/Sci
LT Eng
LT Tac
ENS Uni
3/4/2 Fleet: +1 S-Uni (Eng/Sci)
Defiant:
CMDR Tac
LTC S-Uni Eng/Tac
LT Eng
LT Sci
Ens Uni
3/2/4 Fleet: +1 S-Uni (Tac/Eng)
Disclaimer: I'm not a fan of the trinity and I'm still open for re-releases and other solutions, but it is unlikely that Cryptic changes an old ship design that people bought to something completely different. This approach adresses the issues of the missing Ensign Universal and the obsolescence of the T4 Refits that people also bought. Semi-Universal stations limited to two professions wouldn't make them too "powerful" either. Thoughts?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
The problem with a "rework" still is that the Galaxy is part of the trinity three pack. They took the three hero ships of the TNG shows and put them into an MMO role. Reworking one ship would mean reworking all ships. And that is even more unlikely to happen than to change just one ship.
Further, DDIS's proposed change does radically change a 4 year old ship. I like the idea to a degree (we have our differences) but I can't see that change happen without any basis besides "this ship should be the best at everything". Which it really shouldn't, in STOs lore it's outdated by at least four other cruisers. This is indeed a tricky task, but I had another idea.
I mentioned before that I don't understand why the Refit line-up of the three hero ships is limited to T4, thus making them effectively useless (That topic did come up recently). Further, people that bought those refits not only because of their console and looks but also the gameplay that comes with them are screwed, because after the four hours you play at T4 it's "bye bye" - no possiblity to continue to play with their favourite ship.
What about merging the retrofits and refits into one ship class?
The Exploration Cruiser Retrofit is the T5 version of the Explorer. The Refit is a more science oriented T4 version. If we would advance the Refit to T5 we would get a CMDR Eng, LTC Sci, LT Sci, LT Tac, Ens Sci layout, right? So, what if the T5 Retrofit would offer the following:
CMDR Eng
LTC S-Uni (Semi-Universal: Eng/Sci exclusive)
LT Sci
LT Tac
Ens Uni (This is a nod from the Negh'Var)
Consoles: 4/3/2 Fleet: +1 S-Uni (Eng/Sci)
This way the T5 version would incorporate both T4 variants, nobody would be butthurt because his old setup wouldn't work anymore and the ship wouldn't be a danger for the tac heavy bestsellers in the Z-Store.
The same would apply to the other ships, meaning:
Intrepid:
CMDR Sci
LTC S-Uni Eng/Sci
LT Eng
LT Tac
ENS Uni
3/4/2 Fleet: +1 S-Uni (Eng/Sci)
Defiant:
CMDR Tac
LTC S-Uni Eng/Tac
LT Eng
LT Sci
Ens Uni
3/2/4 Fleet: +1 S-Uni (Tac/Eng)
Disclaimer: I'm not a fan of the trinity and I'm still open for re-releases and other solutions, but it is unlikely that Cryptic changes an old ship design that people bought to something completely different. This approach adresses the issues of the missing Ensign Universal and the obsolescence of the T4 Refits that people also bought. Semi-Universal stations limited to two professions wouldn't make them too "powerful" either. Thoughts?
I am talking about the tier 5 Explorer class ships and the Star cruiser that is also suffering from lack to tac consoles slots. If they want to rework all the TNG ships, that doesn't bother me because all the ships that are older than TNG period were made strong in this game, so why can't the Galaxy, Nebula, and Intrepid get reworked to compete?
For example: they didn't make the Excelsior weak, they didn't make the Ambassador weak, nor did they make the B'rel weak.
Stop make excuses for Cryptic's failures. We should point out what need to be fixed and not accept the status quoe.
Rather than rework the Galaxy if it means the Defiant and Intrepid may also need redoing (Defiant is still very viable for PvE the Intrepid could do with a tweak) Why not release a totally new Galaxy class called the Multi-mission Exploration cruiser. Giving it the extra 2 phaser strips on the nacelles saw on the U.S.S. Venture.
Release as a fleet ship/c-store ship or even a lock box ship.
Boff setup
Lt Tact.
Lt. Cmd Uni
Cmd Engineering
Lt Cmd Uni
Consoles
4/3/3
Hull 44k
Turn rate 7
or
How about creating a special console that does this
Fire at will. (A combination of the Torpedo point defense system from the Armitage and the Veteran ships phaser lotus console) so the ship fires a barrage of photon torpedoes and phaser blasts like it did in the shows
Personally, I think they need to go back to the drawing board on the Galaxy. And take a better look at TNG with an eye toward where this ship fits in the taxonomy.
As an "Exploration" cruiser, you'd think it would have more of a science focus. And that would fit rather well with many of the storylines featuring the Enterprise-D.
A lot of other storylines in TNG involved Geordi or somebody else coming up with some radical ship modification to solve a problem or to save the ship from certain doom. There was definitely a strong vibe of "we can solve anything with technology".
The trouble with this in STO is, that Engineers are only miracle workers within a very narrow range of options... most Engineering powers basically boil down to either more power or fix damage when the game emphasis is on nimble, hard-hitting ships. In this game, it's Science officers who are the miracle workers. And, as some have said, tanking doesn't have the same effect in STO that it has in other games. Making that ENS slot universal would fit with the theme of adaptability, but I'm not sold on that being the best solution.
Speaking of nimble... I certainly don't expect a Galaxy to fly like a Defiant, but the low turn rate really, really hurts this vessel... and would directly interfere with the use of science abilities if it was rebuilt as a science cruiser. If you look at the shows, the Ent-D was a heck of a lot more nimble than this beast is.
Finally, all that crew should count for something... but it doesn't, because the crew system is still not very useful and is still proportionately worse on ships with large crew as opposed to fewer crew. They lose them nearly as fast and regain them much slower.
So, yeah. It's the layout + Eng ability limitations + turn rate + broken crew system that all combine in some kind of weird negative synergy to make the Galaxy even more unfun to fly than a D'D. It's not fine. Skilled builders (I am not one) might be able to make this pelican fly like a seagull, but that doesn't make it a great ship in terms of game mechanics.
It's iconic, just as iconic as a Connie or a Defiant. But the game doesn't treat it that way. It doesn't feel iconic. It's just the ship you can't wait to out-level, even if you're a fan.
that resume it pretty well.
and i am entirely agree on the science direction this ship should take.
this is also my feeling that the galaxy best asset was not much his firepower but his abilitie to do science magic to deal with all the problem it was facing.
i still bielieve that it was the most powerfull ship in term of firepower of it era, even in comparison to the sovereign and furthemore if it were update to the same technological level.
but i also bielieve that it is not his "style" to deal with threat in this manner.
of course this is due to the captain that was commanding the ship in the serie, and captain jellico show a more agressive way to use it, but still.
the galaxy is the symbol of what the federation used to represent at that time.
we have the firepower if neccesary, but most important, we have the technologie.
giving this ship a more science bo layout would indeed better represent that in my opinion, and help to make it really unique and not just a clone in sto gameplay.
The problem with a "rework" still is that the Galaxy is part of the trinity three pack. They took the three hero ships of the TNG shows and put them into an MMO role. Reworking one ship would mean reworking all ships. And that is even more unlikely to happen than to change just one ship.
Further, DDIS's proposed change does radically change a 4 year old ship. I like the idea to a degree (we have our differences) but I can't see that change happen without any basis besides "this ship should be the best at everything". Which it really shouldn't, in STOs lore it's outdated by at least four other cruisers. This is indeed a tricky task, but I had another idea.
I mentioned before that I don't understand why the Refit line-up of the three hero ships is limited to T4, thus making them effectively useless (That topic did come up recently). Further, people that bought those refits not only because of their console and looks but also the gameplay that comes with them are screwed, because after the four hours you play at T4 it's "bye bye" - no possiblity to continue to play with their favourite ship.
the best of everything i was talking about was refering to its existence throughout canon, that excludes the 30 years leading up to this game. wile the station setup is good, the console setup is unremarkable, and there are many more specialized ships that are better at particular things then it is in 2409.
what any ship was pre tier5 be it a fleet store or c store ship does not mater. this game is all abouty going away from trinities anyway, the game launched and cruisers didnt have all eng stations, escorts all tac stations, etc. assassins and warriors dont have cleric healing spells stranded
the intrepid could be made more interesting, but its far from a bad ship. there is no suffering for a sci ship to have that many sci stations. the defient is fine too, theres not really anything wrong or crippling with 3 tac ENS, like there is with 3 eng ENS. plus that ship is the only 1 of the 3 that has its correct station setup from the canon ship, and its entirely its fault the trinity is setup based on its style.
What about merging the retrofits and refits into one ship class?
For example:
The Exploration Cruiser Retrofit is the T5 version of the Explorer. The Refit is a more science oriented T4 version. If we would advance the Refit to T5 we would get a CMDR Eng, LTC Sci, LT Sci, LT Tac, Ens Sci layout, right? So, what if the T5 Retrofit would offer the following:
CMDR Eng
LTC S-Uni (Semi-Universal: Eng/Sci exclusive)
LT Sci
LT Tac
Ens Uni (This is a nod from the Negh'Var)
Consoles: 4/3/2 Fleet: +1 S-Uni (Eng/Sci)
This way the T5 version would incorporate both T4 variants, nobody would be butthurt because his old setup wouldn't work anymore and the ship wouldn't be a danger for the tac heavy bestsellers in the Z-Store.
The same would apply to the other ships, meaning:
Intrepid:
CMDR Sci
LTC S-Uni Eng/Sci
LT Eng
LT Tac
ENS Uni
3/4/2 Fleet: +1 S-Uni (Eng/Sci)
Defiant:
CMDR Tac
LTC S-Uni Eng/Tac
LT Eng
LT Sci
Ens Uni
3/2/4 Fleet: +1 S-Uni (Tac/Eng)
Disclaimer: I'm not a fan of the trinity and I'm still open for re-releases and other solutions, but it is unlikely that Cryptic changes an old ship design that people bought to something completely different. This approach adresses the issues of the missing Ensign Universal and the obsolescence of the T4 Refits that people also bought. Semi-Universal stations limited to two professions wouldn't make them too "powerful" either. Thoughts?
why does a style like this get brought up over and over? thats the odyssey station setup. that setup is majorly over saturated as it is, there does not need to be another ship with it. locking out tac on the LTC? what is everyone collective gag reflex to a ship more powerful then any other canon starfleet ship having the possibility of running a LTC tac? as i already said, if it you used the universal to give it a LTC tac, in my proposed setup, it would be inferior to every other LTC tac cruiser. on a LTC tac cruiser ranking, it would be at the bottom. were is the harm, were is the coherent reason against this?
if any sci ship should have a LTC tac, its the intrepid. ive always liked
COM sci LTC tac LT eng LT uni
ENS uni
for it. fits the canon ship well. there really is no changes for the defiant due. its a 1 trick tactical pony, and is to good as is frankly.
to institute these changes, it would be very simple.
monday week 1- announce a stop sell of galaxy and intrepid retrofit, and removal of fleet versions from the fleet store on the patch on thrursday. note that they will remain available to reclaim for anyone who bought them.
thursday week 1- follow through
monday week 2- dev blog on the new retrofit relaunchs, to go live next thursday's patch.
thursday week 2- follow through
simple. they have already stopped sale on things in the past, like tier 5 costumes becoming exclusive to fleet ships and EVA suits becoming vet rewards.
From what I understand the Galaxy was supposed to be a very modular ship to fit all different purposes. See Memory Alpha.
Take DDIS' BOff layout and add make one of the console slots was a "Universal". Would it be overpowered for STO?
This would help the Galaxy and probably the Nebula as well... in game and in $ale$.
EDIT: It would become a 3-pack in itself, just add a Picard maneuver ability... with a discount for current owners would be nice.
Star Trek Battles Channel - Play Star Trek like they did in the series!Avatar: pinterest-com/pin/14003448816884219Are you sure it isn't time for a "colorful metaphor"? --Spock in 'The Voyage Home' SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
The fact i have long time without posting here dont means i has gone im still here in the shadows xD
well thank for posting it because i haven't notice it.
i ll be there for that event all day if neccesary, since it is my day off.
seeing a fleet of galaxy defend the starbase in the 20 man fleet action is something that i can not miss:D
Oh yeah and wth do they like the Excelsior so much? The fleet excelsior is one of the best cruisers in the game but its a small outdated-looking ship. It looks weird among a row of high-tech looking ships, some of which aren't even as good.
For the most iconic ship in Starfleet history is sure has a lack of firepower. I understand it is not geared around combat and I wouldn't really expect it to go toe to toe with a battle cruiser, but the shear lack of offensive and science abilities added on top of rather poor shield and hull performance really feels like your picking on the most favorite ship in StarTrek.
For the most iconic ship in Starfleet history is sure has a lack of firepower. I understand it is not geared around combat and I wouldn't really expect it to go toe to toe with a battle cruiser, but the shear lack of offensive and science abilities added on top of rather poor shield and hull performance really feels like your picking on the most favorite ship in StarTrek.
ho, sorry pal, it seem you thread have been merged with our own.
"what is your beef with the galaxy" seem to have become the blackhole of this kinds of threads lately.
you are welcome to continue here if you desire to anyway.
join the fight:)
let show that we are not just a hanfull of player thinking the same thing about this ship.
For the most iconic ship in Starfleet history is sure has a lack of firepower. I understand it is not geared around combat and I wouldn't really expect it to go toe to toe with a battle cruiser, but the shear lack of offensive and science abilities added on top of rather poor shield and hull performance really feels like your picking on the most favorite ship in StarTrek.
The MOST iconic ship in Starfleet history is stuck as a T1 only vessel in STO.
The JHAS got an extra tac console for.......... NOTHING!!! Just logged off 1 day, 4 tac consoles. Logged in next day 5 TAC CONSOLES! But if you had the Defiant retrofit you had to wait until your fleet's shipyard opened it AND PURCHASE A SHIP MODULE!
Like I said before, this is just Al Rivera's game and we are just pawns living in it. There is no reason why a small Dominion bug should be more powerful then most Federation ships but try telling that to his royal highness at Cryptic studios whose bias has been one of the low points for this entire game.
I finally bought my Galaxy, even though it's sub par. I just like it that much. I wanted to name it USS "What is your beef C" but didn't have room. I named it after my favorite anime instead, space battleship yamato.
She does enough damage. I realize some of you think other wise, but I know better, and others do as well.
The problem is that engineering in space is wonky as heck. It's hard to call downright underpowered, because it has some of the strongest abilities out there. The problem comes with cooldowns and ability overlap. I don't think the Gal-R should be some damage machine, she should be a bad TRIBBLE tank/heals. The problem is if I want to do that, I require my aux power. If I require my aux power, I can't keep my "mandatory" 2xHE and 2xTSS, because an A2B build is just silly to try and maintain as a healer. It's a case of Sci being too important to engineering for engineering alone to do its job. Sure, I get access many high end ENG heals, but can get them on my other ships, and I never use that ET3, Tac Team wins the day. I can fit a dirty trick in there with some EWP. Yeah that's something... Opps, TS and HE are down... Ally 1 down, ally 2 down... me down... bah! I can make her tank PvE, but honestly, anything with more sci is better, even a mirror assault cruiser... the sci is that important.
That is where the problem is. Engineering boff skills need love. Changing ships around bad skills just leaves us with silly looking ship layouts. Fix the underlying problem. Sure, a more well rounded ship might be better, just as I prefer a sci heavy escort to a Defiant, but right now the Gal-R gets hate because heavy engineering is lame. The Defiant doesn't. I hear good things about the Intrepid as well (I don't own her) Fix the problem, not the symptom.
If I decide I am going to go DPS mode, I am already perfectly viable. An A2B build works. A Transporter Officer to keep boarding parties off of me, and manually redistributing shields works, so you can put ET1 in the ens slot. I know, I do it all the time. Yes, you won't last 3 seconds in PvP this way unless you have somebody using tac team on you, but I have no silly ideals that every ship in every spec should be viable in PvP. Make her a decent healboat and she would PvP fine. As it is my Avenger has quickly become my favorite PvP healer... Yeah... Don't laugh she heals nearly as well as any of them, and can swim and bite like a shark.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I'm planning on buying the Galaxy R myself. Actually it will be my next ship purchase. After some thought. The Avenger, Mogh, and Mogai was my other choices. Later on I would like to get the Venture skin to make a sweet looking Galaxy R. Even though it don't turn fast or have a good tactical set up. I can make it work for me, like I did at the lower levels.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Comments
You've done some good summing up of the problem.
Oddly, I did like mine at Lvl 30, and still have it, and it's actually one of my more powerful cruisers, even if it's rough for a ship design. But between it and my Dreadnought, both have builds I've been tweaking for a long time.
I always thought giving equal Sci and Engie footing for Boff stations would really help it out. The Lt. Tac Station would be evened out by a Lt. Cdr Engi and Sci stations, with LT Eng and Sci added on. That would give it more sci strength on top of Eng strength that is there, with still some remaining tac ability.
Wouldn't that give it more of a proper Galaxy class explorer feeling?
If the LT Sci and Engie are too much, downgrade to Ensign Eng and Sci?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
And you know what? It has nothing to do with the ship being a slow turner. It has nothing to with it being Tac starved. It has nothing to do with how the ship looked in canon.
The problem is that the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit has no reason to exist within the Fed Cruiser Lineup.
What does this ship do? It takes damage. Not the most fun role, but I'll take it. Now, if it were the only cruiser directed at this goal, things might be okay... but the cruiser line up is saturated with options, so the ECR has some competition. The Star Cruiser is very similar, for example - but it gets a valuable sci ensign, better 4th sci console, and turns better to boot. Much more durable than the old Explorer. If you want the exact ECR boff layout for some reason... a Sci Oddy (or even an Eng Oddy) has you covered.
The Exploration Cruiser Retrofit is redundant. It offers nothing that cannot be found elsewhere; from a pure gameplay driven point of view, this is an option that brings nothing to the table.
Well, that's not entirely true... it has one thing over other cruisers. It has the highest hull value, at 44,000 on the fleet version. Now, it's closest counterpart is the Fleet Ambassador... at 43,450. So that's a difference of 550 hull.
... 550. This in a game where people toss around numbers like 10,000 DPS and up like they're ping pong balls. When that Borg torpedo hits your hull for 127K damage (this actually happened to me once
Why use a Exploration Cruiser Retrofit? What does it offer, from a gameplay perspective? Other ships do anything it can, but better. It has a high hull value, but if that's all you care about, you're probably flying a Jem Dread or an Obelisk anyway. As I said, this particular ship has no reason to exist. If it were removed tomorrow, no option or gameplay style would suddenly be missing from the Fed Cruiser lineup.
And when this complete waste of a ship layout is given to the single most seen ship class in Star Trek canon?
Well, let's just say it probably wasn't the best idea Cryptic's ever had...:rolleyes:
the canon is always the best place to look for inspiration and parameters for how the ship should be. when in combat it functioned like a full sized battleship, wile exploring its like a research university, when its making contact is a full service embassy, as its cruising along between destinations its a luxury liner with your family members just a few decks away. its the best at everything at once in canon, yet its the worst at everything in game. its tactical prowess is well understood, it has the bigest guns by far and puts out far more firepower on numerous ocations then the sovereign or defiant or any other fed ship has been seen capable of, its larger then any other class by an order of magnitude, each ship was designed to last at least 100 years, and it gets a complete overhaul every 20 years with constant upgrades and refits in between.
the odyssey should basically be the same thing, only 35% larger with newer bones. in their infinite wisdom though, the odessy ship model has short for its size, split up arrays. if we apply canon rules to that fact its underguned for its size. though honestly that fits its stats fairly well.
this is exactly why i propose these changes to the galaxy R
COM eng
LTC uni
LT uni
LT sci
ENS sci
4/3/3 consoles
this would give the galaxy a reason to exist, it also tottaly fits the ship from canon. it presents several tantalizing options
LTC tac, run it as a tac cruiser: this would hardly be a strech, given the canon behind the ship, for it to have high end tac skill potentual. its a popular build style, but it wont step on any toes. lets say you want to use the galaxy, and you want to run a nice AtB tac build on it, well you certainly can no problem. compared to every single other cruiser option out there with a LTC tac though, it comes out at the bottom. every single other LTC tac cruiser has ether more turn rate, or more tac consoles, or both. so theres no harm done at all, no sales stolen from the avenger or something, a totally different and superior tactical animal.
ether LTC or LT used for sci, or both: truly uncharted territory for a big cruiser, being able to go tac-less, and go totally hardcore into sci healing and or CC. this has drawbacks and advantages plenty, like no TT available if the LT isnt used for tac. this would be were the ship would truly have a reason to exist in game, be totally unique among cruisers. its what such an iconic ship deserves.
this station setup, on this ship is far from outrageous. its the same type the temporal ships have, the voth sci ship has a LTC and LT uni along with another LTC station, and every single new ship for more then 2 years have universal stations standard issue. and whats most important is what you can do with your universal stations, not which you have. universals that present you with basically false choices might as well not be universal at all.
What do you think of that?
Further, DDIS's proposed change does radically change a 4 year old ship. I like the idea to a degree (we have our differences) but I can't see that change happen without any basis besides "this ship should be the best at everything". Which it really shouldn't, in STOs lore it's outdated by at least four other cruisers. This is indeed a tricky task, but I had another idea.
I mentioned before that I don't understand why the Refit line-up of the three hero ships is limited to T4, thus making them effectively useless (That topic did come up recently). Further, people that bought those refits not only because of their console and looks but also the gameplay that comes with them are screwed, because after the four hours you play at T4 it's "bye bye" - no possiblity to continue to play with their favourite ship.
What about merging the retrofits and refits into one ship class?
For example:
The Exploration Cruiser Retrofit is the T5 version of the Explorer. The Refit is a more science oriented T4 version. If we would advance the Refit to T5 we would get a CMDR Eng, LTC Sci, LT Sci, LT Tac, Ens Sci layout, right? So, what if the T5 Retrofit would offer the following:
CMDR Eng
LTC S-Uni (Semi-Universal: Eng/Sci exclusive)
LT Sci
LT Tac
Ens Uni (This is a nod from the Negh'Var)
Consoles: 4/3/2 Fleet: +1 S-Uni (Eng/Sci)
This way the T5 version would incorporate both T4 variants, nobody would be butthurt because his old setup wouldn't work anymore and the ship wouldn't be a danger for the tac heavy bestsellers in the Z-Store.
The same would apply to the other ships, meaning:
Intrepid:
CMDR Sci
LTC S-Uni Eng/Sci
LT Eng
LT Tac
ENS Uni
3/4/2 Fleet: +1 S-Uni (Eng/Sci)
Defiant:
CMDR Tac
LTC S-Uni Eng/Tac
LT Eng
LT Sci
Ens Uni
3/2/4 Fleet: +1 S-Uni (Tac/Eng)
Disclaimer: I'm not a fan of the trinity and I'm still open for re-releases and other solutions, but it is unlikely that Cryptic changes an old ship design that people bought to something completely different. This approach adresses the issues of the missing Ensign Universal and the obsolescence of the T4 Refits that people also bought. Semi-Universal stations limited to two professions wouldn't make them too "powerful" either. Thoughts?
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I am talking about the tier 5 Explorer class ships and the Star cruiser that is also suffering from lack to tac consoles slots. If they want to rework all the TNG ships, that doesn't bother me because all the ships that are older than TNG period were made strong in this game, so why can't the Galaxy, Nebula, and Intrepid get reworked to compete?
For example: they didn't make the Excelsior weak, they didn't make the Ambassador weak, nor did they make the B'rel weak.
Stop make excuses for Cryptic's failures. We should point out what need to be fixed and not accept the status quoe.
Release as a fleet ship/c-store ship or even a lock box ship.
Boff setup
Lt Tact.
Lt. Cmd Uni
Cmd Engineering
Lt Cmd Uni
Consoles
4/3/3
Hull 44k
Turn rate 7
or
How about creating a special console that does this
Fire at will. (A combination of the Torpedo point defense system from the Armitage and the Veteran ships phaser lotus console) so the ship fires a barrage of photon torpedoes and phaser blasts like it did in the shows
that resume it pretty well.
and i am entirely agree on the science direction this ship should take.
this is also my feeling that the galaxy best asset was not much his firepower but his abilitie to do science magic to deal with all the problem it was facing.
i still bielieve that it was the most powerfull ship in term of firepower of it era, even in comparison to the sovereign and furthemore if it were update to the same technological level.
but i also bielieve that it is not his "style" to deal with threat in this manner.
of course this is due to the captain that was commanding the ship in the serie, and captain jellico show a more agressive way to use it, but still.
the galaxy is the symbol of what the federation used to represent at that time.
we have the firepower if neccesary, but most important, we have the technologie.
giving this ship a more science bo layout would indeed better represent that in my opinion, and help to make it really unique and not just a clone in sto gameplay.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
the best of everything i was talking about was refering to its existence throughout canon, that excludes the 30 years leading up to this game. wile the station setup is good, the console setup is unremarkable, and there are many more specialized ships that are better at particular things then it is in 2409.
what any ship was pre tier5 be it a fleet store or c store ship does not mater. this game is all abouty going away from trinities anyway, the game launched and cruisers didnt have all eng stations, escorts all tac stations, etc. assassins and warriors dont have cleric healing spells stranded
the intrepid could be made more interesting, but its far from a bad ship. there is no suffering for a sci ship to have that many sci stations. the defient is fine too, theres not really anything wrong or crippling with 3 tac ENS, like there is with 3 eng ENS. plus that ship is the only 1 of the 3 that has its correct station setup from the canon ship, and its entirely its fault the trinity is setup based on its style.
why does a style like this get brought up over and over? thats the odyssey station setup. that setup is majorly over saturated as it is, there does not need to be another ship with it. locking out tac on the LTC? what is everyone collective gag reflex to a ship more powerful then any other canon starfleet ship having the possibility of running a LTC tac? as i already said, if it you used the universal to give it a LTC tac, in my proposed setup, it would be inferior to every other LTC tac cruiser. on a LTC tac cruiser ranking, it would be at the bottom. were is the harm, were is the coherent reason against this?
if any sci ship should have a LTC tac, its the intrepid. ive always liked
COM sci
LTC tac
LT eng
LT uni
ENS uni
for it. fits the canon ship well. there really is no changes for the defiant due. its a 1 trick tactical pony, and is to good as is frankly.
to institute these changes, it would be very simple.
monday week 1- announce a stop sell of galaxy and intrepid retrofit, and removal of fleet versions from the fleet store on the patch on thrursday. note that they will remain available to reclaim for anyone who bought them.
thursday week 1- follow through
monday week 2- dev blog on the new retrofit relaunchs, to go live next thursday's patch.
thursday week 2- follow through
simple. they have already stopped sale on things in the past, like tier 5 costumes becoming exclusive to fleet ships and EVA suits becoming vet rewards.
Take DDIS' BOff layout and add make one of the console slots was a "Universal". Would it be overpowered for STO?
This would help the Galaxy and probably the Nebula as well... in game and in $ale$.
EDIT: It would become a 3-pack in itself, just add a Picard maneuver ability... with a discount for current owners would be nice.
SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=982951
Hope see yuo all there
The fact i have long time without posting here dont means i has gone im still here in the shadows xD
well thank for posting it because i haven't notice it.
i ll be there for that event all day if neccesary, since it is my day off.
seeing a fleet of galaxy defend the starbase in the 20 man fleet action is something that i can not miss:D
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
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Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
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U.S.S. Meatyprise? ROFL! Still a better ship than the ingame Galaxy at least the Meatyprise can nail an artery :P
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
ho, sorry pal, it seem you thread have been merged with our own.
"what is your beef with the galaxy" seem to have become the blackhole of this kinds of threads lately.
you are welcome to continue here if you desire to anyway.
join the fight:)
let show that we are not just a hanfull of player thinking the same thing about this ship.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
+1 for comment. Its because Gecko hates the ship and prefers the Excelsior and Jem'Hadar ships.
Like I said before, this is just Al Rivera's game and we are just pawns living in it. There is no reason why a small Dominion bug should be more powerful then most Federation ships but try telling that to his royal highness at Cryptic studios whose bias has been one of the low points for this entire game.
a proper JHAS would have the same hitpoints as the breen raider, not the vorcha :rolleyes:
She does enough damage. I realize some of you think other wise, but I know better, and others do as well.
The problem is that engineering in space is wonky as heck. It's hard to call downright underpowered, because it has some of the strongest abilities out there. The problem comes with cooldowns and ability overlap. I don't think the Gal-R should be some damage machine, she should be a bad TRIBBLE tank/heals. The problem is if I want to do that, I require my aux power. If I require my aux power, I can't keep my "mandatory" 2xHE and 2xTSS, because an A2B build is just silly to try and maintain as a healer. It's a case of Sci being too important to engineering for engineering alone to do its job. Sure, I get access many high end ENG heals, but can get them on my other ships, and I never use that ET3, Tac Team wins the day. I can fit a dirty trick in there with some EWP. Yeah that's something... Opps, TS and HE are down... Ally 1 down, ally 2 down... me down... bah! I can make her tank PvE, but honestly, anything with more sci is better, even a mirror assault cruiser... the sci is that important.
That is where the problem is. Engineering boff skills need love. Changing ships around bad skills just leaves us with silly looking ship layouts. Fix the underlying problem. Sure, a more well rounded ship might be better, just as I prefer a sci heavy escort to a Defiant, but right now the Gal-R gets hate because heavy engineering is lame. The Defiant doesn't. I hear good things about the Intrepid as well (I don't own her) Fix the problem, not the symptom.
If I decide I am going to go DPS mode, I am already perfectly viable. An A2B build works. A Transporter Officer to keep boarding parties off of me, and manually redistributing shields works, so you can put ET1 in the ens slot. I know, I do it all the time. Yes, you won't last 3 seconds in PvP this way unless you have somebody using tac team on you, but I have no silly ideals that every ship in every spec should be viable in PvP. Make her a decent healboat and she would PvP fine. As it is my Avenger has quickly become my favorite PvP healer... Yeah... Don't laugh she heals nearly as well as any of them, and can swim and bite like a shark.
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