Brandon, you need to help your higher ups see how TRIBBLE this situation is.
Store ship that can be played all characters on an account: 2500 zen
Lobi store ship that can be played by one single character: 800 lobi = ~100 boxes = 11250 zen
Attack ship that is no longer available by any means except buying on the exchange, for one single character, 350 million EC/1.4 million per key sold = 250 keys = 28125 zen
Seriously bro.
It would all be solved by putting all the Lobi store items in the cstore where they should have been in the first place. :rolleyes:
It is not like they have not put single character bound stuff in there before.
Well, the point is for lockbox/lobi ships to be very very rare. Therefore the average cost you calculated.
Store ships are faction ships. These are not. Can't say that I disagree with Cryptic on this one.
Nope, thats just a bs excuse they keep throwing around to justify ships costing $300. It is nothing to do with them being very very rare.
If that were the case, the Breen ship would never had been made available to everyone for free!
Brandon, you need to help your higher ups see how TRIBBLE this situation is.
Store ship that can be played all characters on an account: 2500 zen
Lobi store ship that can be played by one single character: 800 lobi = ~100 boxes = 11250 zen
Attack ship that is no longer available by any means except buying on the exchange, for one single character, 350 million EC/1.4 million per key sold = 250 keys = 28125 zen
Seriously bro.
What kind of grass are you smoking?? As per the wiki - The Temporal lock-box had avg of 5.5 lobi per box and 182/1 odds on the top prize
800/5.5 = 146 keys or 14.6x1125zen = 16,370 Zen for the Lobi Ship
182/10 = 18.2x1125 zen = 20,470 zen for the Top prize(which would include the 800 lobi for the other ship)
Therefore you can get both ships for ONLY a max avg of 20k zen or $200 US dollars per character!
I tend to agree on the point you will need to be a prior owner of a Attack Ship (Bug) to claim the chance to launch Attack Ships from your Dommy Dreddy. I hope this feature will be opened to all at a later date.
Monkey see, Monkey do. Monkey flings Feathered Monkey poo...
I tend to agree on the point you will need to be a prior owner of a Attack Ship (Bug) to claim the chance to launch Attack Ships from your Dommy Dreddy. I hope this feature will be opened to all at a later date.
Doubtful being that they never did that with the Galor and its weapons.
Pretty sure the JHAS will come back in a doff pack or something, and if players don't want to wait there is always the exchange for a lot of EC.
Well, the point is for lockbox/lobi ships to be very very rare. Therefore the average cost you calculated.
There is no limited supply of lobi store ships. Therefore, they are not rare, merely exorbitantly expensive.
And for the bug ship? Fine, it's "supposed to be" rare. What possible sense then does it make to build new content for something that only a tiny fraction of your players can actually use. If there is supposed to be some kind of factional continuity, then why aren't there bug-level factional ships and fancy new factional features being added? The only the thing the Federation and KDF are getting from this update are some ugly yellow skins and ridiculously one-sided console trades.
Nope, thats just a bs excuse they keep throwing around to justify ships costing $300. It is nothing to do with them being very very rare.
If that were the case, the Breen ship would never had been made available to everyone for free!
You didn't understand me. I'm not justyfing Cryptic's price over these items for their reasons. I'm justyfing this from mine own reasons. To me it's plainly stupid the bulk of Starfleet and The Klingon Defense Force to be consisted of alien ships.
As I have stated before and will once again - the free Breen ship for me was ultimate fail because of this, and if they wanted to give something free it should have been faction alike.
Now it loks like the Breen fleet is undergoing an invasion on Earth once again.
Therefore, if a player is so eager to have & use these non-faction ships, he/she should be prepared to cash in or grind like hell to obtain it. By no circumistance should it be easy obtainable like bying a Galaxy-X or such. Just my view from mine own perspective. I couldn't care less how Cryptic justifies the pricing, for my own reasons I agree with their policy on this one.
To repeat some previous posts, I think it is kinda overkill that STO is making every faction's ship available widely to Fed/Kling factions. Honestly, I think that we should see these other factions (rom, dom, card, ferengi, etc.) made available to play... Then again, this request has been made since day 1 of STO, pretty much, and still seems to be pacified by releasing these "substitutes".
I say that PW needs to hit the nail on the head and move forward by making more playable factions rather than merely releasing their ships to... Starfleet... and The Klingon Empire... after all, I believe that a true klingon would much rather fly a bird of prey or a negh var than a dominion ship... respectively the same for a starfleet officer.
Brandon, you need to help your higher ups see how TRIBBLE this situation is.
Store ship that can be played all characters on an account: 2500 zen
Lobi store ship that can be played by one single character: 800 lobi = ~100 boxes = 11250 zen
Attack ship that is no longer available by any means except buying on the exchange, for one single character, 350 million EC/1.4 million per key sold = 250 keys = 28125 zen
Seriously bro.
Problem is, this is exactly what the sales and marketing teams want, mo money!
Store ship that can be played all characters on an account: $25.00
Lobi store ship that can be played by one single character: 800 lobi = ~100 boxes = $112.50
Attack ship that is no longer available by any means except buying on the exchange, for one single character, 350 million EC/1.4 million per key sold = 250 keys = $281.25
Sad fact is, the lock box economy generates a LOT of money for cryptic.
Educated veterans know ways to minimise the cost of acquiring lock box / lobi items (EC farming, dilithium farming, playing the dilithium exchange, buying keys with zen from dil exchange etc.), the problem is, the great masses don't know these things and buy keys with their own money in the slim hopes of getting the ship in the box or slowly building up the lobi.
The reason the dilithium exchange is in the state its in at present, is because the masses are buying zen to fund their dilithium needs. Cryptic doesn't make any money if you earn dilithium, they do make money though when someone buys zen. The more people, getting less dilithium per zen they trade, the more zen they need to buy, the more money cryptic makes.
Also I have to say every time I read a post going "we have a small team and cannot do this because we are small" I have to wonder ... OK, no interiors because you are too small BUT every two-three month we get a new bridge interior ... for a privileged few.
Why? To make some things more exclusive. More special. Some people manage to get them, others don't. Like tickets to the superbowl. On a much smaller scale, of course, but you know what I mean.
Brandon, you seem to be answering questions about the new lockbox except for the question regarding about whether the same toon has to own the bug ship in order to get the attack ship carrier pets. I think it's becoming clear that you're answering by not answering...
Feds have had free dedicated science vessels for a while now. Klingons still don't have a free science vessel (BoPs do not count as they do not have the hull nor the shield bonus innate to science vessels). YOu can even use your Brigadier General ship token to get one. So you see, for everything you think you have been doing without for the past three years, the other side has done without more.
The point I was making is that this isn't the first carrier Feds have gotten access to. But at the same time, Feds have no free carriers at all.
Why? To make some things more exclusive. More special. Some people manage to get them, others don't. Like tickets to the superbowl. On a much smaller scale, of course, but you know what I mean.
Brandon, you seem to be answering questions about the new lockbox except for the question regarding about whether the same toon has to own the bug ship in order to get the attack ship carrier pets. I think it's becoming clear that you're answering by not answering...
He stated that directly. A single char must have both for the bugship fighters to be purchasable. It does come with a fighter wing though(AFAIK).
To repeat some previous posts, I think it is kinda overkill that STO is making every faction's ship available widely to Fed/Kling factions. Honestly, I think that we should see these other factions (rom, dom, card, ferengi, etc.) made available to play... Then again, this request has been made since day 1 of STO, pretty much, and still seems to be pacified by releasing these "substitutes".
I say that PW needs to hit the nail on the head and move forward by making more playable factions rather than merely releasing their ships to... Starfleet... and The Klingon Empire... after all, I believe that a true klingon would much rather fly a bird of prey or a negh var than a dominion ship... respectively the same for a starfleet officer.
Cryptic is counting on lockboxes to sustain revenue and by doing so shooting themselves in the foot. While the boxes may provide a sizable quick boost, it will be impossible for them to create these factions for future extended content by releasing all these ships and content through the boxes in the small amount of time since the first box. In effect, Cryptic is actively shortening the longevity of their own game.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
The point I was making is that this isn't the first carrier Feds have gotten access to. But at the same time, Feds have no free carriers at all.
But at the same time, Klingons have no free science vessels at all.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
When there is a large team they can do that, I am pointing its hard to feel sympathy when when we talk about lack of content to everyone play and resources are being used on shinny new toys for a wealthy minority.
That begs the question, what are you even going to use thise new ships on anyway? Replaying the same old content we had since about a year ago?
Also you know what I would pay for? a Ferengi option for the KDF with a upgradable D'Kora but that is not going to happen because they are not even giving the options of "OK, you can unlock these non-allied races to play as either side and with their specific ships" that I would say at least it would be something, I would even pay 5000 Zen for it but no, its on a lockbox for a few to feel "extra special".
Congratulations, you are a special snowflake on a empty sandbox.
Essentially every ship is reduced to a Tuffli freighter as we spend our time flying around to the various Doff missions and making Kessel runs. When not ferrying supplies and/or colonists, we sit in spacedock waiting on the same old STF queues to pop for faction reputation just to acquire items we used to get by running those STFs. Empty sandbox indeed.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
My view on this is a few things have to be changed in the way this is going to unfold before myself and anyone else that has opposed this thing of needing the attack ship and a carrier to buy very rare carrier pets for this.
#1. First off it should only be a requirement that you have to have a Jem Hadar Carrier to purchase them that is not a big compromise to get them. Although I could see the balance there in someone just dropping them in a vo'quv or atrox without owning an actual Jem Hadar Carrier.
#2. If you guys feel it to get your jollies off that we own a ship + a jem hadar carrier just make it where you have to own 1 mirror ship from that pack so that players can easily just buy one off exchange if need be and gets your jollies off and pleases most people or whatever.
#3. If these are going to be per toon and not account wide you guys need to up this drop rate of a trillionth of a percent drop rate for these things. It's not like most asian grindfests where every player has 1 toon they play and then some banking toons a lot of us veterans have like 20+ toons.
#4. Make having an LTS account mean something with these lockboxes because its the foundation of this game now is to grind nonstop without getting to enjoy anything. So if thats what its going to be then make it worth the chunk of change every LTS player has dropped into this game (We might not be paying customer anymore but a lot of veterans who are still committed to the game are the ones who are pushing forward all the noobs you want/are getting money from so we would like some respect when it comes to doing your jobs for you )
This is very nice indeed. I will get a few keys to try it. But, I will not go through a lot just to get the ship. Since I'm saving up zen points for a new cruiser or the Vesta.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
how is the zen store life? It would be better if they just sold the ships directly instead of these perfect world lockboxes. i miss the old cryptic, run by... not pw.
You and your team rawk! I don't overly care about the new ships, but the fact that we have the option to upgrade our current jem hadar space and ground sets to mark 12 makes me a happy camper. I currently use the space set on my fleet saber and have three BOff's with the ground set. I do have one question, for the mini-gun though...does it work as a set piece with the current Jem Hadar PSG and armor or is it a completely separate entity?
This is clearly the most feature packed lockbox yet, and the potential prizes are definitely first rate.
BUT, it's getting to be a bit much, as box after box rolls out, with the same super-low drop rate, and the same insanely expensive keys needed to open them. Keeping track of rare Doffs and consoles are one thing, but there are so many ships available to both factions now, it's literally impossible to keep them straight, or even figure out whether changing ships is worth it or not. And that's before the Mirror universe, temporal, and other lockbox ships appeared.
I get that it's all about revenue, but can we get a reorganization of the ship classes?
This is clearly the most feature packed lockbox yet, and the potential prizes are definitely first rate.
BUT, it's getting to be a bit much, as box after box rolls out, with the same super-low drop rate, and the same insanely expensive keys needed to open them. Keeping track of rare Doffs and consoles are one thing, but there are so many ships available to both factions now, it's literally impossible to keep them straight, or even figure out whether changing ships is worth it or not. And that's before the Mirror universe, temporal, and other lockbox ships appeared.
I get that it's all about revenue, but can we get a reorganization of the ship classes?
Yeah and like most games its so user unfriendly. It should be that boffs learn a skill and you don't have to relearn it unless you just go and buy a flew of 4-5 boffs per ship so it will remember it should be as easy as a click to go and change ships with the weapons saved and all that good jazz. Unfortunately the customer or player is not on top of the list but their money is the only thing a player is worth with this age of corporate run mmorpgs.
This is clearly the most feature packed lockbox yet, and the potential prizes are definitely first rate.
BUT, it's getting to be a bit much, as box after box rolls out, with the same super-low drop rate, and the same insanely expensive keys needed to open them. Keeping track of rare Doffs and consoles are one thing, but there are so many ships available to both factions now, it's literally impossible to keep them straight, or even figure out whether changing ships is worth it or not. And that's before the Mirror universe, temporal, and other lockbox ships appeared.
I get that it's all about revenue, but can we get a reorganization of the ship classes?
Yeah and like most games its so user unfriendly. It should be that boffs learn a skill and you don't have to relearn it unless you just go and buy a flew of 4-5 boffs per ship so it will remember it should be as easy as a click to go and change ships with the weapons saved and all that good jazz. Unfortunately the customer or player is not on top of the list but their money is the only thing a player is worth with this age of corporate run mmorpgs.
Under the present format, it's not worth it as often as they keep pumping out ships. You pay for the modules. You pay for the ships even if it's just for the special console. You pay for the keys, if not directly but someone does. Then you still must pay for the respec.
As I've stated before, the captain specs as they exist now should be tied to the ship being commanded not to the captain. Whether or not the captain has a personal disposition toward stealth is irrelevant. It is the ship that must be stealthy. The same can be said of hull plating, warp core potential, etc.
Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
Under the present format, it's not worth it as often as they keep pumping out ships. You pay for the modules. You pay for the ships even if it's just for the special console. You pay for the keys, if not directly but someone does. Then you still must pay for the respec.
As I've stated before, the captain specs as they exist now should be tied to the ship being commanded not to the captain. Whether or not the captain has a personal disposition toward stealth is irrelevant. It is the ship that must be stealthy. The same can be said of hull plating, warp core potential, etc.
While I can understand this like of thinking, it'd require them to completely overhaul the skill tree.... AGAIN! It was bad enough the first time.
I have just one simple wish, I'd like to know the odds of winning a ship and how its calculated.
After spending the equivalent of a cstore ship + more on the last box and not winning sfa it would be nice to have some improvement on the odds.
Funny thing is I have been told the Aus gov is looking into online games as some may infringe there online gambling laws. :eek:
Funny thing is I have been told the Aus gov is looking into online games as some may infringe there online gambling laws. :eek:
The Australian government is the biggest toothless tiger out there... Gillard & Co won't do anything about this stuff because they simply do not understand anything to do with the internet (just listen to Conroy... that man has no clue!). Unfortunately it could mean that they come up with some crazy law that has some adverse effect on the game... but to be realistic the chances of that happening are bugger all to none.
And anyway... the gambling argument has been done to death... its not gambling - you always get something for your money - there is NO real risk - there is just a risk that you will not get something that you want (and that doesn't classify as getting ripped off cos you still got something you were told you could get).
Can you make it, to where if you own a Jem'Hadar attack ship anywhere on your account, you can buy the pet? If I magically get this ship, I'm not replacing my attack ship with it, but would love to launch a wing of fighters with it.
Sollaf: Join date Sep 2009, Lifer. Disgruntled with the JHSS, my Bug feels less shiny now.
Comments
It would all be solved by putting all the Lobi store items in the cstore where they should have been in the first place. :rolleyes:
It is not like they have not put single character bound stuff in there before.
Nope, thats just a bs excuse they keep throwing around to justify ships costing $300. It is nothing to do with them being very very rare.
If that were the case, the Breen ship would never had been made available to everyone for free!
What kind of grass are you smoking?? As per the wiki - The Temporal lock-box had avg of 5.5 lobi per box and 182/1 odds on the top prize
800/5.5 = 146 keys or 14.6x1125zen = 16,370 Zen for the Lobi Ship
182/10 = 18.2x1125 zen = 20,470 zen for the Top prize(which would include the 800 lobi for the other ship)
Therefore you can get both ships for ONLY a max avg of 20k zen or $200 US dollars per character!
Doubtful being that they never did that with the Galor and its weapons.
Pretty sure the JHAS will come back in a doff pack or something, and if players don't want to wait there is always the exchange for a lot of EC.
not necessarily....the mirror sovereign can't fit the metreon gas canister that the normal sovereign/regent can
There is no limited supply of lobi store ships. Therefore, they are not rare, merely exorbitantly expensive.
And for the bug ship? Fine, it's "supposed to be" rare. What possible sense then does it make to build new content for something that only a tiny fraction of your players can actually use. If there is supposed to be some kind of factional continuity, then why aren't there bug-level factional ships and fancy new factional features being added? The only the thing the Federation and KDF are getting from this update are some ugly yellow skins and ridiculously one-sided console trades.
You didn't understand me. I'm not justyfing Cryptic's price over these items for their reasons. I'm justyfing this from mine own reasons. To me it's plainly stupid the bulk of Starfleet and The Klingon Defense Force to be consisted of alien ships.
As I have stated before and will once again - the free Breen ship for me was ultimate fail because of this, and if they wanted to give something free it should have been faction alike.
Now it loks like the Breen fleet is undergoing an invasion on Earth once again.
Therefore, if a player is so eager to have & use these non-faction ships, he/she should be prepared to cash in or grind like hell to obtain it. By no circumistance should it be easy obtainable like bying a Galaxy-X or such. Just my view from mine own perspective. I couldn't care less how Cryptic justifies the pricing, for my own reasons I agree with their policy on this one.
I say that PW needs to hit the nail on the head and move forward by making more playable factions rather than merely releasing their ships to... Starfleet... and The Klingon Empire... after all, I believe that a true klingon would much rather fly a bird of prey or a negh var than a dominion ship... respectively the same for a starfleet officer.
Problem is, this is exactly what the sales and marketing teams want, mo money!
Store ship that can be played all characters on an account: $25.00
Lobi store ship that can be played by one single character: 800 lobi = ~100 boxes = $112.50
Attack ship that is no longer available by any means except buying on the exchange, for one single character, 350 million EC/1.4 million per key sold = 250 keys = $281.25
Sad fact is, the lock box economy generates a LOT of money for cryptic.
Educated veterans know ways to minimise the cost of acquiring lock box / lobi items (EC farming, dilithium farming, playing the dilithium exchange, buying keys with zen from dil exchange etc.), the problem is, the great masses don't know these things and buy keys with their own money in the slim hopes of getting the ship in the box or slowly building up the lobi.
The reason the dilithium exchange is in the state its in at present, is because the masses are buying zen to fund their dilithium needs. Cryptic doesn't make any money if you earn dilithium, they do make money though when someone buys zen. The more people, getting less dilithium per zen they trade, the more zen they need to buy, the more money cryptic makes.
Commander, Starfleet Corps of Engineers • 7th Fleet
Commanding Officer, U.S.S. HEART OF OAK • NX-1759-B • Odyssey class Star Cruiser ( Lexington Tactical Configuration))
(Steam - feel free to follow/friend me : )
Why? To make some things more exclusive. More special. Some people manage to get them, others don't. Like tickets to the superbowl. On a much smaller scale, of course, but you know what I mean.
Brandon, you seem to be answering questions about the new lockbox except for the question regarding about whether the same toon has to own the bug ship in order to get the attack ship carrier pets. I think it's becoming clear that you're answering by not answering...
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
Cryptic is counting on lockboxes to sustain revenue and by doing so shooting themselves in the foot. While the boxes may provide a sizable quick boost, it will be impossible for them to create these factions for future extended content by releasing all these ships and content through the boxes in the small amount of time since the first box. In effect, Cryptic is actively shortening the longevity of their own game.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
But at the same time, Klingons have no free science vessels at all.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
Essentially every ship is reduced to a Tuffli freighter as we spend our time flying around to the various Doff missions and making Kessel runs. When not ferrying supplies and/or colonists, we sit in spacedock waiting on the same old STF queues to pop for faction reputation just to acquire items we used to get by running those STFs. Empty sandbox indeed.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
#1. First off it should only be a requirement that you have to have a Jem Hadar Carrier to purchase them that is not a big compromise to get them. Although I could see the balance there in someone just dropping them in a vo'quv or atrox without owning an actual Jem Hadar Carrier.
#2. If you guys feel it to get your jollies off that we own a ship + a jem hadar carrier just make it where you have to own 1 mirror ship from that pack so that players can easily just buy one off exchange if need be and gets your jollies off and pleases most people or whatever.
#3. If these are going to be per toon and not account wide you guys need to up this drop rate of a trillionth of a percent drop rate for these things. It's not like most asian grindfests where every player has 1 toon they play and then some banking toons a lot of us veterans have like 20+ toons.
#4. Make having an LTS account mean something with these lockboxes because its the foundation of this game now is to grind nonstop without getting to enjoy anything. So if thats what its going to be then make it worth the chunk of change every LTS player has dropped into this game (We might not be paying customer anymore but a lot of veterans who are still committed to the game are the ones who are pushing forward all the noobs you want/are getting money from so we would like some respect when it comes to doing your jobs for you
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
how is the zen store life? It would be better if they just sold the ships directly instead of these perfect world lockboxes. i miss the old cryptic, run by... not pw.
You and your team rawk! I don't overly care about the new ships, but the fact that we have the option to upgrade our current jem hadar space and ground sets to mark 12 makes me a happy camper. I currently use the space set on my fleet saber and have three BOff's with the ground set. I do have one question, for the mini-gun though...does it work as a set piece with the current Jem Hadar PSG and armor or is it a completely separate entity?
Thanks!
BUT, it's getting to be a bit much, as box after box rolls out, with the same super-low drop rate, and the same insanely expensive keys needed to open them. Keeping track of rare Doffs and consoles are one thing, but there are so many ships available to both factions now, it's literally impossible to keep them straight, or even figure out whether changing ships is worth it or not. And that's before the Mirror universe, temporal, and other lockbox ships appeared.
I get that it's all about revenue, but can we get a reorganization of the ship classes?
More Pokedoffs to collect. Can't beat that.
Yeah and like most games its so user unfriendly. It should be that boffs learn a skill and you don't have to relearn it unless you just go and buy a flew of 4-5 boffs per ship so it will remember it should be as easy as a click to go and change ships with the weapons saved and all that good jazz. Unfortunately the customer or player is not on top of the list but their money is the only thing a player is worth with this age of corporate run mmorpgs.
Under the present format, it's not worth it as often as they keep pumping out ships. You pay for the modules. You pay for the ships even if it's just for the special console. You pay for the keys, if not directly but someone does. Then you still must pay for the respec.
As I've stated before, the captain specs as they exist now should be tied to the ship being commanded not to the captain. Whether or not the captain has a personal disposition toward stealth is irrelevant. It is the ship that must be stealthy. The same can be said of hull plating, warp core potential, etc.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
Oh and.... Hypnotoad says buy more keys....
My character Tsin'xing
After spending the equivalent of a cstore ship + more on the last box and not winning sfa it would be nice to have some improvement on the odds.
Funny thing is I have been told the Aus gov is looking into online games as some may infringe there online gambling laws. :eek:
The Australian government is the biggest toothless tiger out there... Gillard & Co won't do anything about this stuff because they simply do not understand anything to do with the internet (just listen to Conroy... that man has no clue!). Unfortunately it could mean that they come up with some crazy law that has some adverse effect on the game... but to be realistic the chances of that happening are bugger all to none.
And anyway... the gambling argument has been done to death... its not gambling - you always get something for your money - there is NO real risk - there is just a risk that you will not get something that you want (and that doesn't classify as getting ripped off cos you still got something you were told you could get).