Hey, DStahl, thanks for adding the STF rewards back, and for acknowledging that fun is more important than any sort of ivory-tower design intent. I liked what you said in your forum post: "we would rather you were having fun in Season 7 than worrying about the economy. We have enough of that to deal with in the real world." Exactly. You get it. Good on you, and I mean that most sincerely.
No, really, I can't overstate the degree to which this has restored my confidence in STO. Looking forward to playing for many years to come!
(Still not thrilled with the doff grinder cost, but eh, I can live with it. There are other, better ways to get blue/purple doffs anyway.)
Well stated and i agree 100%, TY for lisening to the comunity, most of us only fuss at times because we love this game and Star Trek, We know ya'll put alot of hard work and long hours in the game and we as player have as well and lots of money, and in todays economy that says alot,
seeing all these thanks, i cannot help being stunned how easily they get away with this ...
removing all Dil and(!!!) loot ... coming back within one day saying "yeah sry, we listen to u players we will add it again"
*tinfoil head wrap mode on* ppl have warned, they ll do it to make u accept all the crappy changes *tinfoil head wrap mode off*
they added countless new dilithium sinks, ie:
- STF projects
- DOFF exchange/reassign
(remember the old dil costs for this? here is the new ones:
"The Dilithium cost associated with Reassignments has been increased:
White to Green: Now 500 Dilithium
Green to Blue: Now 2500 Dilithium
Blue to Purple: Now 5000 Dilithium")
so in short, gettin a proper amount of dil without playing 24/7 ... almost impossible now,
gettin proper gear (regular purple mk12 stuff) ... not possible anymore (at least in STFs),
gettin MACO or OMEGA gear, spend all ur money on dil and maybe,
gettin good purple DOFFs, spend all ur money on dil and maybe
WELL i am about to become a very casual player (if at all, maybe have a look at SWTOR), dont see why I should invest anymore time into this game
yep they take away ton increses cost a tone then give back a few ounces and say see we listened arnt you happy now and love us agian ????NO WE DO NOT WE HATE YOU AS MUCH AS YOU OBVIOUSELY HATE US YOU JERKWAD DSTHAL EAT TRIBBLE N DIE
well lets stay with the reassignment for a moment, lets say i have all white doffs and i want to change into one purple, costs as follows:
white to green:
5 whites + 500 dil = 1 green
green to blue
5 greens + 2500 dill = 1 blue
blue to purple
5 blues + 5000 dill = 1 purple
5x5000 + 5x(2500) + 25x(500) = 50k dil
so one purple BOFF costing now 50k dilithium and 25 white boffs???
and at the same time reduce the amount of dil u can get drastically
PS: yeah there are ways to get good BOFFs but those are too random and seldom
It wasn't an easy decision by any stretch of the imagination and even though the Dilithium changes to remove STFs has been on TRIBBLE since the test weekend promo, it wasn't until we looked at the data today and saw that everyone had more Dilithium on average and still weren't happy - that I decided that the data driven approach was accomplishing the goal of giving players more Dilithium, but wasn't making some of our hardcore players happy at all.
As others have pointed out, this is a more balanced approach that may have implications for Dilithium exchange rates in the future (because there will be much more Dilithium in the economy) - but we want players having fun with the new Season 7 content - not worrying about how to get Dilithium.
So in other words - we stuck to our guns - left the change in - it accomplished exactly what we wanted it to (help players get more Dilithium) but that doesn't equal "fun" for the community. We needed to see the data after S7 launch in order to realize that players can have their cake and eat it too and the game will be ok.
Wow, Mr. Stahl... I know Executive Producers have big egos having worked for a video game company, ......but wow!
yep they take away ton increses cost a tone then give back a few ounces and say see we listened arnt you happy now and love us agian ????NO WE DO NOT WE HATE YOU AS MUCH AS YOU OBVIOUSELY HATE US YOU JERKWAD DSTHAL EAT TRIBBLE N DIE
No, WE don't ALL "hate" for this. There is some definite BS here, but this is one of the very first "olive branches" extended, and it's big on their part. Doesn't excuse a lot of the things they have done and, I'm certain, they'll continue to do, but credit where it's due is something that should be given here.
My suggestion, if you are so disgruntled, is to stop paying and/or stop playing. You are obviously overly emotionally and financially invested to be prompted to write such a rude and childish post.
"Hate," and "eat TRIBBLE and die" is a little strong for something like a game, and there are some key points to Trek you seem to have missed.
Some advice? Learn some patience, some grace, and hire a spelling editor...
Fleet Commander
Caprica's Revenge (...actually active since November 2010, which may one day be important to archaeologists, but not to anyone else...)
yep they take away ton increses cost a tone then give back a few ounces and say see we listened arnt you happy now and love us agian ????NO WE DO NOT WE HATE YOU AS MUCH AS YOU OBVIOUSELY HATE US YOU JERKWAD DSTHAL EAT TRIBBLE N DIE
Whoa there. This is cray :eek:
I submit that asking Mr. Stahl to "eat TRIBBLE and die" might be just a touch too srsbsns for STO. I get your passion but come on.
Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it! No, seriously! ...Why are you laughing so hard?
Now if they could just sort the clusterf@&* of the doff grinder hyper-inflation then Dshtal might start getting some traction with his non-apology for this mess.
I've been waiting for a long time for this moment to be able to do this:
[walks over to the closet, reaches in, and pulls on a rope, and instantly the ceiling opens up and out comes a bunch of balloons, party poppers go off, and noisemakers are heard, along with a sign dropping down saying "Cryptic Admitted a Change Was Wrong!!!"]
[waits]
huh, there was supposed to be a clown as well
[a skeleton with a funny red nose drops out of the closet]
I'm writting a big post of feedback to this and S7 dil changes in general but i think everyone here needs to remeber somthing:
The dil changes are not suposed to help ESTF people in any way shape or form. You guys (this includes all my own fed tons), are/where above average in dil income. The changes are meant to raise the average dil per week for the average player, not help the reletivlly small, (but stil significant), section of the player base that was in the top few percent in terms of dil per week.
I agree that the release state of S7 with no dil in STF's went too far against the STF community, but IMHO this is too far back the other way.
After many hours of deliberation and review of the post Season 7 player data, I've made the call to reverse the decision to remove Dilithium as a reward for running STFs. In addition, we've also decided to keep Dilithium as a reward in Fleet Actions.
There have been numerous posts explaining the rationale that went into the reward changes and I can clearly state that our goal of getting more Dilithium into the average player has been very successful. As the data suggested, there is a huge contingent of players that simply do not play STFs but are eager to earn Dilithium in other content. These players are benefiting from the addition of Dilithium in the Fleet Actions, so that worked well.
However, our concern that there would be too much Dilithium in the economy if we left Dilithium in both STFs and Fleet Actions has been outweighed by the frustration we've seen from STF fans since the launch of Season 7.
The additional Dilithium may impact the player-to-player Dilithium exchange rates in the future, but we would rather you were having fun in Season 7 than worrying about the economy. We have enough of that to deal with in the real world.
(snip)
Thank you for your patience and for being the best community of any MMO.
- dstahl
(p.s. the web team has updated the blog I posted last night with these changes to help cut down on confusion.)
OMFG! We're all pissed at him for nothing. Don't you get it? I can't believe i just figured it out. This wasn't a ploy to TRIBBLE us over. Quite the opposite.
Think about it. Everyone was complaining about the high dilithium costs for fleet base projects, the new fleet embassy, and the change in in the General Recturiment/Reassign Underperforming doff assignments at the academy.
So what did they do? According to dstahl, there wasn't a large amount of players doing STFs. In other words: everybody wanted to do fleet actions.
They decide at the last minute to remove dilithium from STFs knowing the majority of players won't care and smack a big fat 1440 on FAs.
How many of you did a bunch of fleet actions to hit your cap? How many of you hit your cap on multiple characters? And how many of you started doing fleet actions like there was no (bleeping) tomorrow AFTER it was announced they were severely reducing the amount rewarded for fleet actions? Hm?
They set aside their concerns about too much dilithium entering the economy and let you go all hog wild on fleet actions, with no consequences, to stock up on as much as you could, even going over your 8k cap, before they make the change lowering the reward! This gave all the players outraged over new and higher dilithium costs a chance to have a stock on hand to last them at least a short while, giving the economy a chance to settle down and stabilize, and players some time to find the best way they see fit for themselves to earn dilithium before their surplus runs dry.
They did reduce dilithium amounts in STFs, BUT, they added dilithium rewards to FAs. I'd say, in the long run, the pace at which we earn dilithium will be the same as it was pre-season 7. The difference is now maybe I can enjoy some FAs when the 2 hour extra reward event is NOT running. We have more ways to earn it and the reduced rewards keeps there from, as dstahl stated, being too much dilithium in the economy. The reason for that might be to keep Zen prices from skyrocketing and stating balanced.
I've been playing since the end of September and noticed Zen prices seem to stay around 156-160 dilithium each. It doesn't go way up on some days and then way down again. We are almost assured a set price nearly everyday so we know how much dil we need each day to get the Zen we want for that super cool ship or costume (though I wish the C-store prices went down. Not paying $50 in zen for the odessey cruiser bundle whether I grind dil in game or flat out buy Zen with real money ). If Zen prices went through the roof nobody would want to exchange dil for it. And if that happens then nobody will want to buy Zen for real money and if that happens.........you see where I'm going? Friggin Cryptic are full of geniuses and we're all too blinded by self entitlement and big e-peens to see they are trying to make the game better for us, and in the long run for them as well.
I disagree that their goals were successful. It was MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
We all owe destahl and Cryptic an apology and hopefully any players who rage quit the game for good will see this and come back for a long time.
P.S. I wished I realized this sooner. I would have done fleet actions all day, since I love them and to stock up on dilithium. (I'm such an idiot lol)
I agree. As much as i'm pissed off at being lied to time and again, "eat TRIBBLE and die" is a bit too much. "May you get crabs from your sheep"...no that's a bit too much also. Oh well, we got the dil back in the stf's that we were told we were going to have, which shouldn't have been removed in the first place. Pease excuse me if I refuse to thank you for trying to TRIBBLE us all over, or thank you for "listening" to all of us when it was very clear from the time on tribble that removing the stf dil was a mistake. Perhaps if you actually do start listening and fixing some of the TRIBBLE thats still very broken, I'll consider "un-firing" you folks and spend some money here again. I can forgive being lied to, I can even forgive a solid attempt at a decent TRIBBLE over, but I will never forget it.
What about B'Tran (Vice Admiral) exploration daily? Since season 7 update it lost 1440 dilitium reward. Whats a point of having that daily then? It grants same amount xp as repeatable one.
I'd thank you, but thanking someone for undoing some brainless decision seems unearned praise.
"Hey, you didn't kick me in the balls today, Thank You!" :rolleyes:
Now fix B'tran too. That zone was a ghost town even w/ the double dilithium, but now ...
The 'quickie' Officer Reports (Daily) I loved but that one I can understand the reasoning. But your overall 'we want people earning more Dil' is a lie when you get rid of the most profitable mission there is. No one is gonna do three 20 minute missions for 1440. ( If anyone does them it will be from shear boredom of the other grinding missions.) Your OWN statistic says you are shooting for 2000/hour for grinding. So you really should up the payout for Officer Reports (Daily).
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
While I am glad to see dilithium rewards return to STF's, it doesn't change the fact that
Cryptic has behaved very badly towards the playerbase.
We must not forget that they said the rewards would be there, then simply took it out
without any explanation. Then, after looking at the data (not the player feedback!) they
put it back in again. And look, they nerfed dil in FA's while they were at it!
This also do not change the fact that they've made things harder for small fleets by
(essentially) removing a good, fast source of fleet marks without any replacement.
And then there is the doff grinder cost...
Personally I'm more inclined to think that this was a PR stunt from their side. Cause an
uproar by removing the dil, then put it back in to make it appear like they listened to the
players. And voila, suddenly most players are eager to forgive and praise them.
Sorry, I'm just not falling for that.. :rolleyes:
Joined in March, 2011. Lifer since December, 2011.
hy guys my question what do you smoke in the cryptic-perfect world studios?
i want this to to continue to play this game after the today patch.
i think mutch peolple leave this game ... to play hello kitty-online without wonderfull patches like this one...
They nerfed the FA to transfer the difference to STF, the original nerf is still in effect people. But I guess people prefer STF to FA, so they'll take even more dil reductions derpherpderstan.
You are assuming we play both.
FA's rewarding 1440 wasn't going to get me to play those godawful things, so effectively my dili income dropped to 0.
Now it's back up to nearly 1k and with the 8k limit, I'm not complaining anymore.
i don't understand how i earn more dil now, i see only that they nerfed all and rised price for duty, they added embassy that need other dil, and in the stf we earn less dill.
Now i can't play freely, i must play for dil cap -.-
i don't like this chlange and don't understand how someone can agree to this politicies.
they insert dil in stf for player?
i think that they insert it only for nerf and the player that don't see it are......
And if u don't want that i think about real economic probl don't do it in game.
we are here for fun not for farm all time for a bit of dil or other.
As far as the new STF changes now as a vet player they are a bit of a joke. I used to love doing them with fleet mates trying to get their gear and sometimes getting a nice dil reward for myself if i got the big drop. All they had to do was add another function inside of the map mission when items dropped and everyone had to roll on them why not of added another tab that would have allowed you to pass your roll onto another person on the team to increase there chance of getting the item. As far as personnel drops items, add a fuction that would move the item into a team item roll window. I know a many of my mates would have been happy to pass items on to other teammates that worked just as hard in the STF mission. As far as the 8000 dil daily before the STF change with luck i could have this done in Two STF mission 2200 + drops to be exchanged into dil which i did quite often so dont understands Daniels S commends that this change would make getting dil easier lol. Just think system was better before and a lot less work had to go into changing it to this mess that it is now when a little fuction tab tweak is all it needed. I promiss this change would solve much of your items drop issues and will go over very nicely with fleets in the game. If you only pub because your a solo player well then theres a draw back and you need to work harder for your items or you may be lucky in and a friendly group that passed there roll to you i know that wont be the case a lot of the time but it may happen once in awhile.
BUT due to ur changes regarding the STF reward system and the ridiculous new reassign BOFFs dilithium costs I will not spend much time with this game anymore
good thing SWTOR is going free-to-play ... I am sure they glady take the annoyed trekkies off of Cryptics hands
was a fun experience while it lastet see (a lot of) you folks in SWTOR soon
However, our concern that there would be too much Dilithium in the economy if we left Dilithium in both STFs and Fleet Actions has been outweighed by the frustration we've seen from STF fans since the launch of Season 7.
Dear dstahl,
Please don?t worry about there being too much dilithium in the system, you can reverse all those phenomenal price rises (e.g. doff reassignments and end game items) and even drop the ridiculous costs of starbases so that the non-mega fleets might give it a go.
Simply:
Just star selling people things they want (e.g. ships, weapons and bases) at a reasonable price and the dilithium will look after itself, we?ll be happy because we get the things we like and you?ll be happy because people will give you real cash to get all the lovely things that are suddenly within reasonable reach.
In business, if a shop isn?t making enough money it doesn?t put its prices up 900 % and expect to stay in business, it works out what the customers want and then sell those things at a price the customers agree (by buying) is reasonable.
You have been trying to squeeze more and more out of what you think is a captive audience, making us work harder and harder for basically pretty pixels on a screen and a warm feeling inside, don?t, the audience isn?t captive. Just make it easier and more people will give it a go, as well as recomending it to their friend.
It?s supply and demand; why not try working on the supply for a change. After all what would it have cost you if the big fleets all had their T5 bases finished by the end of S6? Well, I think they'd be fired up and ready for the S7 embassy, instead of thinking Oh No, Not Again!
...
However, our concern that there would be too much Dilithium in the economy if we left Dilithium in both STFs and Fleet Actions has been outweighed by the frustration we've seen from STF fans since the launch of Season 7.
...
Wait I thought that why we had an 8k dilthium cap.
Comments
Well stated and i agree 100%, TY for lisening to the comunity, most of us only fuss at times because we love this game and Star Trek, We know ya'll put alot of hard work and long hours in the game and we as player have as well and lots of money, and in todays economy that says alot,
yep they take away ton increses cost a tone then give back a few ounces and say see we listened arnt you happy now and love us agian ????NO WE DO NOT WE HATE YOU AS MUCH AS YOU OBVIOUSELY HATE US YOU JERKWAD DSTHAL EAT TRIBBLE N DIE
we should force them to change that!
Wow, Mr. Stahl... I know Executive Producers have big egos having worked for a video game company, ......but wow!
"let them eat cake....."
Delirium Tremens
Tier 4 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy
http://dtfleet.com/
No, WE don't ALL "hate" for this. There is some definite BS here, but this is one of the very first "olive branches" extended, and it's big on their part. Doesn't excuse a lot of the things they have done and, I'm certain, they'll continue to do, but credit where it's due is something that should be given here.
My suggestion, if you are so disgruntled, is to stop paying and/or stop playing. You are obviously overly emotionally and financially invested to be prompted to write such a rude and childish post.
"Hate," and "eat TRIBBLE and die" is a little strong for something like a game, and there are some key points to Trek you seem to have missed.
Some advice? Learn some patience, some grace, and hire a spelling editor...
Fleet Commander
Caprica's Revenge
(...actually active since November 2010, which may one day be important to archaeologists, but not to anyone else...)
Whoa there. This is cray :eek:
I submit that asking Mr. Stahl to "eat TRIBBLE and die" might be just a touch too srsbsns for STO. I get your passion but come on.
Also, as Angel puts it on the Firehawk's lair mission in Borderlands 2 : "Dude, Ew!"
[walks over to the closet, reaches in, and pulls on a rope, and instantly the ceiling opens up and out comes a bunch of balloons, party poppers go off, and noisemakers are heard, along with a sign dropping down saying "Cryptic Admitted a Change Was Wrong!!!"]
[waits]
huh, there was supposed to be a clown as well
[a skeleton with a funny red nose drops out of the closet]
oh there he is
The dil changes are not suposed to help ESTF people in any way shape or form. You guys (this includes all my own fed tons), are/where above average in dil income. The changes are meant to raise the average dil per week for the average player, not help the reletivlly small, (but stil significant), section of the player base that was in the top few percent in terms of dil per week.
I agree that the release state of S7 with no dil in STF's went too far against the STF community, but IMHO this is too far back the other way.
B][COLOR="Red"]^Important parts of quote in red text ^[/COLOR][/B
OMFG! We're all pissed at him for nothing. Don't you get it? I can't believe i just figured it out. This wasn't a ploy to TRIBBLE us over. Quite the opposite.
Think about it. Everyone was complaining about the high dilithium costs for fleet base projects, the new fleet embassy, and the change in in the General Recturiment/Reassign Underperforming doff assignments at the academy.
So what did they do? According to dstahl, there wasn't a large amount of players doing STFs. In other words: everybody wanted to do fleet actions.
They decide at the last minute to remove dilithium from STFs knowing the majority of players won't care and smack a big fat 1440 on FAs.
How many of you did a bunch of fleet actions to hit your cap? How many of you hit your cap on multiple characters? And how many of you started doing fleet actions like there was no (bleeping) tomorrow AFTER it was announced they were severely reducing the amount rewarded for fleet actions? Hm?
They set aside their concerns about too much dilithium entering the economy and let you go all hog wild on fleet actions, with no consequences, to stock up on as much as you could, even going over your 8k cap, before they make the change lowering the reward! This gave all the players outraged over new and higher dilithium costs a chance to have a stock on hand to last them at least a short while, giving the economy a chance to settle down and stabilize, and players some time to find the best way they see fit for themselves to earn dilithium before their surplus runs dry.
They did reduce dilithium amounts in STFs, BUT, they added dilithium rewards to FAs. I'd say, in the long run, the pace at which we earn dilithium will be the same as it was pre-season 7. The difference is now maybe I can enjoy some FAs when the 2 hour extra reward event is NOT running. We have more ways to earn it and the reduced rewards keeps there from, as dstahl stated, being too much dilithium in the economy. The reason for that might be to keep Zen prices from skyrocketing and stating balanced.
I've been playing since the end of September and noticed Zen prices seem to stay around 156-160 dilithium each. It doesn't go way up on some days and then way down again. We are almost assured a set price nearly everyday so we know how much dil we need each day to get the Zen we want for that super cool ship or costume (though I wish the C-store prices went down. Not paying $50 in zen for the odessey cruiser bundle whether I grind dil in game or flat out buy Zen with real money
I disagree that their goals were successful. It was MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
We all owe destahl and Cryptic an apology and hopefully any players who rage quit the game for good will see this and come back for a long time.
P.S. I wished I realized this sooner. I would have done fleet actions all day, since I love them and to stock up on dilithium.
Edit: Post count #51 dastahl said this http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=6583561&postcount=51
I missed it and so did a lot of others. Just raged on and on.
Archimede - Leader and Founder of "Raiders of Starfleet"
...and 21 other characters!
"Hey, you didn't kick me in the balls today, Thank You!" :rolleyes:
Now fix B'tran too. That zone was a ghost town even w/ the double dilithium, but now ...
The 'quickie' Officer Reports (Daily) I loved but that one I can understand the reasoning. But your overall 'we want people earning more Dil' is a lie when you get rid of the most profitable mission there is. No one is gonna do three 20 minute missions for 1440. ( If anyone does them it will be from shear boredom of the other grinding missions.) Your OWN statistic says you are shooting for 2000/hour for grinding. So you really should up the payout for Officer Reports (Daily).
Cryptic has behaved very badly towards the playerbase.
We must not forget that they said the rewards would be there, then simply took it out
without any explanation. Then, after looking at the data (not the player feedback!) they
put it back in again. And look, they nerfed dil in FA's while they were at it!
This also do not change the fact that they've made things harder for small fleets by
(essentially) removing a good, fast source of fleet marks without any replacement.
And then there is the doff grinder cost...
Personally I'm more inclined to think that this was a PR stunt from their side. Cause an
uproar by removing the dil, then put it back in to make it appear like they listened to the
players. And voila, suddenly most players are eager to forgive and praise them.
Sorry, I'm just not falling for that.. :rolleyes:
Joined in March, 2011. Lifer since December, 2011.
i want this to to continue to play this game after the today patch.
i think mutch peolple leave this game ... to play hello kitty-online without wonderfull patches like this one...
You are assuming we play both.
FA's rewarding 1440 wasn't going to get me to play those godawful things, so effectively my dili income dropped to 0.
Now it's back up to nearly 1k and with the 8k limit, I'm not complaining anymore.
Now i can't play freely, i must play for dil cap -.-
i don't like this chlange and don't understand how someone can agree to this politicies.
they insert dil in stf for player?
i think that they insert it only for nerf and the player that don't see it are......
And if u don't want that i think about real economic probl don't do it in game.
we are here for fun not for farm all time for a bit of dil or other.
BUT due to ur changes regarding the STF reward system and the ridiculous new reassign BOFFs dilithium costs I will not spend much time with this game anymore
good thing SWTOR is going free-to-play ... I am sure they glady take the annoyed trekkies off of Cryptics hands
was a fun experience while it lastet see (a lot of) you folks in SWTOR soon
agree put 960 to fa so we arent forced to do stf if dont wont to
Dear dstahl,
Please don?t worry about there being too much dilithium in the system, you can reverse all those phenomenal price rises (e.g. doff reassignments and end game items) and even drop the ridiculous costs of starbases so that the non-mega fleets might give it a go.
Simply:
Just star selling people things they want (e.g. ships, weapons and bases) at a reasonable price and the dilithium will look after itself, we?ll be happy because we get the things we like and you?ll be happy because people will give you real cash to get all the lovely things that are suddenly within reasonable reach.
In business, if a shop isn?t making enough money it doesn?t put its prices up 900 % and expect to stay in business, it works out what the customers want and then sell those things at a price the customers agree (by buying) is reasonable.
You have been trying to squeeze more and more out of what you think is a captive audience, making us work harder and harder for basically pretty pixels on a screen and a warm feeling inside, don?t, the audience isn?t captive. Just make it easier and more people will give it a go, as well as recomending it to their friend.
It?s supply and demand; why not try working on the supply for a change. After all what would it have cost you if the big fleets all had their T5 bases finished by the end of S6? Well, I think they'd be fired up and ready for the S7 embassy, instead of thinking Oh No, Not Again!
Wait I thought that why we had an 8k dilthium cap.