I'm curious to see what type of datamining was used to determine the increase in dilithium earnings.
If you considered the amount ACQUIRED after Season 7 went Live, then it is correct.
But if you considered the amount they HAD after Season 7 went Live, then it's wrong, because many players turned pre-S7 STF loot in for dilithium and now have huge amounts.
However, our concern that there would be too much Dilithium in the economy if we left Dilithium in both STFs and Fleet Actions has been outweighed by the frustration we've seen from STF fans since the launch of Season 7.
Wait I thought that why we had an 8k dilthium cap.
Interesting. I agree.
Since there is a daily 8,000 dilithium cap, the mechanism would have slowed players down. Regardless about how much dilithium people accumulate, the 8,000 dilithium refinement stop gap would have kept things moving smoothly.
Concern 1 ? Active level 50 players are refining far less Dilithium than we expect them to. Prior to Season 7, the average amount of Dilithium refined by an active level 50 player was 3100 per session or 13,250 per week. That is far less than the cap of 8000 per day when you consider that most level 50 players play multiple days per week and slightly more than the average hours per session.
Make Dilithium more available to all level 50 players ? not just those playing on elite ? by increasing the average amount of Dilithium earned. We want the average amount of Dilithium earned by all level 50 players to exceed 13,250 per week and will be monitoring and adjusting Dilithium rates to ensure this happens. This also means moving additional Dilithium rewards to missions that are more accessible to the average player (Normal Fleet Actions) and away from Elite only STFs. STFs will still reward Dilithium but at a lesser rate than before. Both STFs and Fleet Actions reward Dilithium each run.
Fascinating. What Mr. Stahl should be asking is, "Why are the majority not interested in stfs?". Once he realizes they are annoyingly bugged, too difficult for the vast majority, and lack efficient overall rewards, Mr. Stahl will make the necessary adjustments to restore their luster. Another thing that is scaring people away are the vocal elite players. According to their philosophy and perspective, the only people who should be playing stfs are 'expert level players'. "Star Trek: Online's" forums are filled with vocal elite players stomping on the learning curves of pugs. I have seen vocal elite players belittle, degenerate, and slam new players for making mistakes. Even though some new players are having their issues, the vocal elite players have a problem with discriminating between a confused player, someone learning, and someone just being annoying. Its all or none with the vocal portion of elite players.
Technically, the vocal elite players, annoying freeloaders, bugs, difficulty settings, and lack of rewards have destroyed everyone' interested in stfs.
to dastahl:
wise decision devs, to put back dilitium in stf..
1.yesterday i saw 3 fleet projects stopped with 0 dilitium, and the tier 0 embassy projects requiring dilitium as well.
2.your work would be in vane if no diltium reward in stf, players already refusing to do (new) STFs after the first (curiosity content) run.
3.the refining cap is already a "pain" for many players , so why should remove completely dilitium from stf ?..
4.already the dilitium amount required for fleet projects is huge .( i would prefer 10 times more dilitium required but in Ore not the refined one..)
5.the exchanging(converting) 5:1 doff instant mission requires (more) dilitium..( i guess you have some online statistics about the average usage of converting doffs and you might see now player don't exchange doffs anymore..therefore common doff prices are dropping down to 8k or even 5k)
Conclusion: better a smaller reward dilitium in STF than none..and your work to create Season 7 will be enjoyed NOT IGNORED by players also not lagging or server issues on the only dilitium rewarding instances such as Starbase 24..yesterday players was complaining about the fleet event entering issue.
And i know how hard it is to create new content, new characters, new textures, new meshes,new terrain maps,or new objects,new props , boolean modelling ,etc ..etc. My hobby is Daz Studio, Bryce, Maya,Mudbox, (soon Z-Brush) mostly in graphical and 3D art and i bet seeing your 3 months, or more, work results to be ignored is not funny..
Also want a tip to get more dollars to Cryptic ? Create shop content..lots of MORE shop content, not just 3 doff packs and 10 ships ..I play PWI of PWE since nov 2008 (open beta) , and believe me, you get "lost" when you visit the shop with such a big variety and lots of goodies..doesn't matter if its fantasy or scifi game , shop content variety will attract more dollar-zen buyers right ?
-You can create a new special lockbox available only from shop...you can create holograms to buy to put them in interior ships , you can create shop-only trophies droped from shop-lockboxes and so...more new stuff to attract buyers ..or to tempt them to spend more ..this the key to a wealthy bussiness, not forcing customers to buy more expensive.From let's say 15 items on shop, how many items types you will sell ? 7 maybe 8, but if you have 200 item types you will sell at least 40 types.
More end-game sets, Xindi faction, Xindi stf, undine stf,romulan stf, suliban instances, andorian events...new faction ships on shop.. etc etc
There are hundreds of species(races) in Star Trek (even if only mentioned) but in game are still missing lots of them ..create a new(missing) boff species/race for the zen shop or a playable one..etc etc
And by the way i like the Mine Trap with zombies a.k.a M-113 creature race ty for that. Looks like a Residend Evil scenario lol
Why the cash shop is so small..?
Thank your reading this and you're welcome for the hints
open beta player of some PWE games - north america launched versions:
- PWI - November, 2008 (2 months after North-America-West Coast open beta)
- Forsaken World - open beta
- BOI - open beta
- Star Trek Online - ftp January, 2012 and rank 14 STO Wiki contributor
- Neverwinter open beta June, 2013 Daily Foundry "Canyon of the Dead" ( NW-DBPJYKMRE ) - dungeon
Fascinating. What Mr. Stahl should be asking is, "Why are the majority not interested in stfs?". Once he realizes they are annoyingly bugged, too difficult for the vast majority, and lack efficient overall rewards, Mr. Stahl will make the necessary adjustments to restore their luster. Another thing that is scaring people away are the vocal elite players. According to their philosophy and perspective, the only people who should be playing stfs are 'expert level players'. "Star Trek: Online's" forums are filled with vocal elite players stomping on the learning curves of pugs. I have seen vocal elite players belittle, degenerate, and slam new players for making mistakes. Even though some new players are having their issues, the vocal elite players have a problem with discriminating between a confused player, someone learning, and someone just being annoying. Its all or none with the vocal portion of elite players.
Technically, the vocal elite players, annoying freeloaders, bugs, difficulty settings, and lack of rewards have destroyed everyone' interested in stfs.
IF they dumb down STF's to accommodate the vast majority you think aren't up to the task then I'll assume those STF's rewards will be nerfed again. The normals were created to learn those missions, and if you want that top-notch gear you better learn how to be an elite player instead of asking the devs to gimp the missions so you can have gear you're not deserving.
Really, I can understand the importance to keep the amount of dilithium controled in the game, and create ways to Crypt/PW get money to keep STO running. No problem with this. Is part of the game and we know, no one work for free.
But the main problem with the new rules of Dilithium is about how STO deal with this. Instead taking Dilithium to pay dutty officer, get GLP, Fleet Credits or another non-dilithium currency...
...Or review the whole price of projects, from starbase to embassy, because is really demotivating be a non-ultrahardcore gamer or just a casual player in STO with limited time for family, friends, work and more and have to spend your full free time collecting dilithium to keep your fleet projectos running, keep your reputation projects running, keep your dutty missions running.
In somepoint, "Grind to gain" become worse, boring and punitive to a largue number of players and they begin to ignore or abandone the projects and missions.
Sto need to value the time or each player (gold or silver, lifetime or free) to have fun and want to play more, without looking something punitive or
destructively addictive.
Yeah, we want to spend our time and money here, but please, the Grind to Gain formula become each day more and more cansative. The endgame lost your importance and running in circles to just to polish the ego of a fleet or players with time or with lots of money give a bad taste to other common players.
In the past, STF have the luck to find the items. Now is good because you have to play enough to get all rewards.
But again, in the STO, each day is more dificult to be motived to play new systems, finish projects and go in certains kind of game because everything is too dilithium oriented. And because the dilithium is the source of all problems (you need more to finish quickly or are forced to use this), everyone get pised if insted of changing the way of the game put a price of our efforts and time, raise the price of dilithium and remove how you get this.
I have a gold account, but every month is hard to me justify why keep it. Being a F2P or just go to another game is being really attractive if STO keep to following this idea of dilithium-eating in each step of the game.
Again, I not complay to pay something in the game, if is in zen, dilithium, EC, GLP or other thing. I complay about how STO begins to lose the fun and starts becomes tiring, stressful and begin to force the players to develop the greed of values.
The S7 is awesome. But the price tag in some services and projects really make me to think twice if really worths my time. Sorry dastah, I really love star trek and STO, but sometimes is really hard.
2-Please revamp the Current Body model displaced on the main page of this company's site. To a more formal and less 'sexual suggested presentation.
You don't seem to have been to many other PWE sites or seen many other PWE game launchers have you?
On topic: It's a compromise. Compromise entails each side giving up something to achieve a middle ground. No, you're not getting back the way things were, true. But you're getting something back. Give them a little time to look at the numbers and see if they're willing to give a little more.
It's a flustercluck from hell, I'm sure, but something came of it.
Stahl, you still have that unnecessary 1000 Dilithium charge on getting the General Recruitment mission from the Personnel Officer in SFA. How can you justify that? Considering the number of Common Duty Officers needed for progression, you're going to slap a 1K charge on getting more?
Lane Bjorn Jorgensson, Captain, ISS Voltaire
Here's a map to show how much they've screwed up the game map.
I was impressed with S7 but as some have stated before the removal of the dilithium rewards from STF's seemed to overshadow everything that was done. I was usually able to reach my 8000k dilithium cap (I'm a lifer but I didn't manage to get 9000k regularly) but since S7 went live (granted it's only a few days old) I never even came close. I love STF's but I'm not a big fan of the other ways available to get dilithium. I do believe you maid the right decision.
Again thank you and keep up the good work. As a KDF player I'm eagerly looking forward to S8 and maybe to a Romulan faction
I've uninstalled, I hated the starbase in s6 for being a waste of time and resources, but at least it was optional and I opted to ignore it. Now a player has their own mini starbase system just to be given permission to buy stuff that used to be given out as a lucky reward drop in STF's.
Its not fun, its just grinding and grinding, none stop. Its not just the excessive costs in dilithium, its the timegating as well. If there was a Z store token that could be purchased that gives instant access to tier 5 store content (say 2500 zen) then I might grind the necessary dil for that even if I have to pay more dil just to get the stuff I want.
Thank you for listening. The new dil spread is a great compromise; STFs still give out dilithium in fair amounts, Fleet Actions still have dilithium to further increase the options one has in filling out their dil cap per day. Well done.
WTF, yes they have brought back the dilithium in the STF's, but the cooldown time went up with 30 minutes. 1h30 now instead 1 hour. Is this the way to pay respect to your paying costumers ???
This is not really a fix. I'm not really jumping off my seat here about the "compromise" and meeting us "half way". If anything it's just another let down.
This has much effect on the player base as dropping a stone in the ocean. You've got to open your eyes and see the wood for the trees.... or in your case, see the trees in general. You can't continue to turn a blind eye to some of the horrible changes you've made.
After this long up hill struggle to get back in the position we once were in to buy that elite gear, we've got to spend around 80k dilithium for one piece. Now, even if I were able to make enough dilithium to buy all the equipment I want, I would have to wait every 10 days to refine enough to buy it. That's one piece every 10-11 days based on what you said a piece of equipment should cost. If we're willing to put the hard work in, why make it even more difficult?
Reduce the wait times on the projects, either make the gear purchasable with Marks or remove the dilithium fees for Crafting and the General Recruitment of DOFF's on SFA and replace it with EC or even Fleet Credits. The other bright spark idea you came up with is increasing the fee on the Reassigning Duty Officers to get better qualities. So let's look at the facts:
White to Green: Now 500 Dilithium - Increase from 25
Green to Blue: Now 2500 Dilithium - Increase from 100
Blue to Purple: Now 5000 Dilithium - Increase from 500
B-Tran Double Reward - GONE (1440 Dil Reward Reduction)
Embassy Added - More Dil projects
Fleet Projects still not scaled or reduced on Dil requirements except for Tier IV and V (which not alot of people I know have even reached yet.)
End game gear - Average 85k Dil per piece.
General Recruitment Doff - 1k Dil each.
The cost of a Common Unreplicateable Material is 10 Refined dilithium
The cost of an Uncommon Unreplicateable Material is 1000 Refined dilithium
Dil Store - Still there.
Dilithium Cap Increase - Oh, still not done that?
How do you expect people to enjoy this game with these kind of unreasonable targets? You want us to refine more, but you take more avenues away for us to earn it. You give us more things that cost dilithium or increase the cap on stuff that didn't need increasing but yet don't change the Refinement Cap. Many players have families to take care of and full time jobs, at the same time we don't expect everything to be handed over to us on a silver platter, but you should make it fair so we can get a good challenge and still enjoy our experience.
I use to play Final Fantasy 11 for about 8 years and now I have Final Fantasy 14 online. Before you login you get a message -
"Exploring Vana'diel is a thrilling experience.
During your time here, you will be able to talk, join,
and adventure with many other individuals in an experience
that is unique to online games.
That being said, we have no desire to see your real life
suffer as a consequence.
Don't forget your family, your friends, your school,
or your work."
You should really take a page out of their book. As it feels like in order to get anywhere and enjoy the experience of everything this game has to offer we need to devote all our free time, which in turn would effect our real lives. Now I know many might say that your not holding a gun against our heads and we don't have to play and that it's free, so be happy. But a free service is still a service and there are still all the players that have put plenty of time and money in this game including the Gold Members and LTS (myself included).
Remember what Star Trek is about and equality for everybody. If you focus on service and don't worry about your income, you'll find that the income will come anyway because it will make people want to be and stay a part of STO.
After many hours of deliberation and review of the post Season 7 player data, I've made the call to reverse the decision to remove Dilithium as a reward for running STFs. In addition, we've also decided to keep Dilithium as a reward in Fleet Actions.
There have been numerous posts explaining the rationale that went into the reward changes and I can clearly state that our goal of getting more Dilithium into the average player has been very successful. As the data suggested, there is a huge contingent of players that simply do not play STFs but are eager to earn Dilithium in other content. These players are benefiting from the addition of Dilithium in the Fleet Actions, so that worked well.
However, our concern that there would be too much Dilithium in the economy if we left Dilithium in both STFs and Fleet Actions has been outweighed by the frustration we've seen from STF fans since the launch of Season 7.
Season 7 is an awesome content filled update that the team is very proud of that has been overshadowed by player frustrations over the Dilithium changes. Cryptic has and always will take player feedback into consideration when making decisions and this is a case where we agree with the players that Dilithium should be back in the STFs. It is more fun to run STFs when you can earn Dilithium towards end game gear and no amount of data driven logic can outweigh this.
So here are the changes we'll be making in a maintenance build by the end of this week.
Normal STF runs will grant 480 Dilithium
Elite STF runs will grant 960 Dilithium
Space Fleet Action runs will grant 480 Dilithium
Ground Fleet Action runs will grant 640 Dilithium
This is in addition to the other rewards that STFs and Fleet Actions grant.
While this is still a change from Season 6, we hope that these new amounts will help the average player earn more Dilithium per day while maintaining the Dilithium that players who like to run STFs were receiving.
The additional Dilithium may impact the player-to-player Dilithium exchange rates in the future, but we would rather you were having fun in Season 7 than worrying about the economy. We have enough of that to deal with in the real world.
Thank you for your patience and for being the best community of any MMO.
- dstahl
(p.s. the web team has updated the blog I posted last night with these changes to help cut down on confusion.)
Dear Mr. Stahl,
I'm a former Gold player for around 2 years and I'm actually a F2P gamer. I loved the game and i was considering IF i should subscribe a LTS. I'm deeply concerned about it since YOUR COMPANY lost my personal & financial data due to sloppiness and carelessness in securing such sensitive information. However, i was really interested to buy a LTS before S7. Now, this interest is lost!
I'm glad that you (as a representative of Cryptic/PWE) partially-reversed the foolish removal of dilithium from STFs; but, the removal of dilithium - an in-game currency - from the STFs was not the only problem in the game economy of S7. With the new Season we have got reduced earning of in-game currencies (Yes, also Exchange economics have been affected by S7 due to changes in inputs needed for Fleet Starbases' projects) coupled with an huge increase in costs due - as an example - to the need of dilithium inputs to acquire and reassign our DOFFs. You claim your concern about too much dilithium flooding S7 however your way to deal with the issue was overreacting! If we were in the real world the situation Cryptic/PWE made with the S7 patch was called a "Credit Crunch"!
I did some maths about the costs to acquire and reassign our DOFFs:
1 Very Rare DOFF (Purple) = 155000 dilithium (5x Blue DOFFs + 5000 dilithium fee)
1 Rare DOFF (Blue) = 30000 dilithium (5x Green DOFFs + 2500 dilithium fee)
1 Uncommon DOFF (Green) = 5500 dilithium (5x White DOFFs + the 500 dilithium fee)
1 Common DOFF (White) = 1000 dilithium
Now, I see currency trading on Dilithium Exchange at 1 Zen = 159 Dilithium. You put a "Federation Duty Officer Pack" on sale in the Store at 200 Zen and a "Reinforcements Duty Officer Pack" at 275 Zen. So, We could even save something if We buy such packs on the Store but, people didn't use the "Reassign under-performing Duty Officers" mission to acquire DOFFs on the cheap! They used this mission to free up their rosters that fill up very rapidly, no matters how big they are. Dismissing them is a total loss since you already revised rewards from dismissing DOFFs downward during S6, and with S7 you've not corrected the imbalance, yet.
During previous Seasons I've been used to convert Zen not earned in game into dilithium to help me reach some target like buying a Tier V ship or something else. Now, You force me also to grind as much as possible (a.k.a. staying longer connected to STO) to keep the pace with other players. I cannot grind that much - even with the correction you made today - and i cannot put more real world money in a game due to real world financial constraints. So, You're basically kicking me out of the game. I don't like also your changes on requirements for Fleet Starbase projects. My fleet was one of the few fleets doing Bartender project during S6 at huge costs. After the completion of the said project, We started saving and collecting to prepare for the Chef project of Tier IV. I bought a Purple Cardassian Chef on the Exchange to help them acquire Cardassian Taspar Eggs and make energy credits to eventually acquire the Hearts of Targ needed to start the aforesaid project. Now, this is no longer useful and energy credits lost since you decided to change the rules of playing by putting common items in Fleet Starbase Projects. I've also been used to replicate some stacks of Cardassian Taspar Eggs to put them on sale on the Exchange during the night; now, I've all the said Eggs from the night before the S7 Patch blocking my Exchange slots. I'm not too eager taking such a loss in Energy Credits, too. Since you give an unfair advantage to other fleets/players we must be compensated for our losses!
I should complain also about your foolish disabling of the Foundry and of the Private Queues but here in Europe is already late...so, be prepared to receive a separate complain about the Foundry and of the Private Queues in the next few days.
WTF, yes they have brought back the dilithium in the STF's, but the cooldown time went up with 30 minutes. 1h30 now instead 1 hour. Is this the way to pay respect to your paying costumers ???
Where is that info? is that currently on holodeck? I never checked. But if that is so... then that is even worse than before XD
On a side note, like I said, they threw a few crumbs after robbing our Bread Loaf... it feels so empty.
It wasn't an easy decision by any stretch of the imagination and even though the Dilithium changes to remove STFs has been on TRIBBLE since the test weekend promo, it wasn't until we looked at the data today and saw that everyone had more Dilithium on average and still weren't happy - that I decided that the data driven approach was accomplishing the goal of giving players more Dilithium, but wasn't making some of our hardcore players happy at all.
As others have pointed out, this is a more balanced approach that may have implications for Dilithium exchange rates in the future (because there will be much more Dilithium in the economy) - but we want players having fun with the new Season 7 content - not worrying about how to get Dilithium.
So in other words - we stuck to our guns - left the change in - it accomplished exactly what we wanted it to (help players get more Dilithium) but that doesn't equal "fun" for the community. We needed to see the data after S7 launch in order to realize that players can have their cake and eat it too and the game will be ok.
This might have been said by someone else but I want to say it. The players control the economy and the players are well always greedy. The market shouldnt change that much because there is a bit more dilithium. I myself hold onto a lot of dilithium. Heck I use to have 200K but I used it on my fleet. We will deal with the extra dilithium better than you think we will i suspect. And you know what we will better be able to take care of our fleets and our mates after all we still can only convert 8000.
I look forward to the next addition to the game and am still very hopeful in the prospect of the Romulans being in some way shape or form playable.
I did some maths about the costs to acquire and reassign our DOFFs:
1 Very Rare DOFF (Purple) = 155000 dilithium (5x Blue DOFFs + 5000 dilithium fee)
1 Rare DOFF (Blue) = 30000 dilithium (5x Green DOFFs + 2500 dilithium fee)
1 Uncommon DOFF (Green) = 5500 dilithium (5x White DOFFs + the 500 dilithium fee)
1 Common DOFF (White) = 1000 dilithium
You might want to change those statistics. Whether it's a glitch or not I'm not sure but I just went to check this and it's showing to get 1 Very Rare it's 6000 Dilithium + 5 Rare Doffs, 3000 Dilithium for Rare and 600 for Uncommon. So either Cryptic has made a mistake or they've done this behind our backs, as I didn't see anything about this change being made. Apologies if it already has been mentioned.
i spent now a few hours in the game today ... previously i could get my daily dil cap easely and maybe a few nice drops in STFs but not anymore ... its boring and frustrating now with the ridiculous prices and reward system
I'm sure the Devs have long stopped reading this thread, but anyway. Having been playing for a couple of days of this now, I've come to the conclusion that I can no longer afford to play any game mode that doesn't reward Dilithium. My STO experience has now become; log in, play the same missions over again, refine all the Dilithium, dump all the Dilithium into a project. I don't know how long I will be able to keep this up before I die of boredom.
I thought these changes were supposed to help us continue to have fun in the game? It's turned out the exact opposite for me.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
You might want to change those statistics. Whether it's a glitch or not I'm not sure but I just went to check this and it's showing to get 1 Very Rare it's 6000 Dilithium + 5 Rare Doffs, 3000 Dilithium for Rare and 600 for Uncommon. So either Cryptic has made a mistake or they've done this behind our backs, as I didn't see anything about this change being made. Apologies if it already has been mentioned.
I based my maths on price charged by SFA's Personnel Officer; however, following your post I double check your claims and I've noticed that Species-specific Personnel Officers - namely Vulcans, Tellarites and Andorians - charged the amount you are pointing out! :eek: Since I've been unable to find such change in the Release Notes, I think it is worth a ticket of his own!
I am rapidly losing interest in STO, the game seems to now revolve almost entirely on earning dilithium (I will repeat this). I am a casual player with a wife, life, and job. I go F2P and have spent $$ for ships and so forth not because its necessarily cheaper, but because it suits my play style of needing to be absent from the game for extended periods. I return to S7 to find 1) Almost everything costs dilithium, substantially more than before, and 2) ways to easily earn it have been significantly diminished.
Sorry, this is to much like real life. I don't mind flipping you a few bucks here and there for a fun-to-play distraction from my real concerns, but when a few hours a day of GRINDING for in-game currency completely overshadows the attraction of new content, you've lost me.
I'm looking elsewhere for my entertainment now. No need to delete my characters and I'll check in from time to time, but Cryptic and STO can rest assured they've received my CC info for the last time. Thanks, I had fun, but it's time to move on.
Hey,
thanks for the improvement! Fantastic change... was a little depressed before that.
I do not want to be greedy or something, but could you as well enable some "loot" for STFs. I mean nothing big, just something, so that we can role the dice once more
PS: Here an edit:
read now some player feedback... yes, I can understand, that people are upset about taking it away and giving a small amount back... but I can also understand to limit the dilithium input to players... It was ERY easy to fill a few characters up to their heads with dilithium ore...
Nontheless, the problem of completing anything and the sameness of the fleet and reputation system mentioned before
I was expecting a whole new system for the rep not one that was already in place using most of the same resources(fleet). Doesn't even feel nor sound like a reputation system if you ask me. [...] Why would i want to level my character the same way i level my fleet? Too monotonous.
as well as the reduction in STFs' loot make them and a lot things a bit boring...
I do not want to curse or defame anyone, just mentioning that old things got monotonous. I liked flying STFs and earning some dilithium, energy credits and maybe some good weaponary (Borg are advanced... there could always be something nice in the wrackage, Janeway showed us!!! ) What should I do now? I just have a limited amount of Currency whether it is Dilithium or Energy Credits and in the end I cannot fill both systems... makes one sad.
STARBASE ADVANCEMENT:
I think it is a wise idea to reduce the cost of Starbase Improvement, BUT was there a need to take the fun for hunting out of it? There is no need to gather specific goods like the "Contract Bartender" from before. Yes it was a lot, but it was doable (the "Contract Chef" with the 1000 Klingon Heart of Targ was a little big and I am glad that it is not there anymore..) However is there no way in between? Now, I have to farm Dilithium and Energy Credits and the build grows... there is no fun in that. Almost every project is the same in its requirements (more or less, but it is the same) A little hunt once in a while might be invigorating for almost everyone.
I liked the new STF and the new "Borg" Sector Invasion... !!! Have to say the good things, too!
The STF needs some variable back, if I have to say anything about it. Bring the DICING back, let us role once more for the loot. Where is the greed!
Indeed, I need greed!
BASICS TO DO (according to me): balance the efficiency of missions for their loot-time basics and people will play everything (just to mention one thing: CURE now is as hard as before and does not reward anything more or less then the other two old STFs - why not change the amount of marks to earn?) people will in the end choose the missions most effective for their in-game needs and their fun will decrease because they need things to advance while the fun will cease (if you do not advance, you won't have fun either)
make players pay a lot more reputation marks for faction advancement and reduce other things. REPUTATION IS EARNED BY DEEDS not FEES
put some variety into starbase projects to widen the field of hunt for things and not just for Energy Credits and Dilithium. This might be motivation to play the Temple Event to get some Romulan Ale.... or maybe make some missions to drop there a specific good needed for a project or make it the reward for the mission -> people will play all missions, if they need the things out of them... and the will sell these things for people who nontheless do not want to play it!
If this is the wrong place for this.... tell me, I am farely new to this forum work.
Best,
D
Firstly, thankyou for listening to us and putting the Dilithium back.
I have to say I am enjoying S7 content, and new Romulus is fun.
My only concern now is ship weapons.
The loot drop in Elite STFs was one of the only sources of non borg high end Mk XII weapons.
Where will we be able to get them from now ? I know there are fleet stores, and one set of new plasma ship weapons from the Romulan reputation store. But there's a lot less likelihood of receiving nice purple Mk XII ship weapons... Is this because you're going to revamp crafting ? Just curious....
Comments
If you considered the amount ACQUIRED after Season 7 went Live, then it is correct.
But if you considered the amount they HAD after Season 7 went Live, then it's wrong, because many players turned pre-S7 STF loot in for dilithium and now have huge amounts.
STO Screenshot Archive
Since there is a daily 8,000 dilithium cap, the mechanism would have slowed players down. Regardless about how much dilithium people accumulate, the 8,000 dilithium refinement stop gap would have kept things moving smoothly.
Fascinating. What Mr. Stahl should be asking is, "Why are the majority not interested in stfs?". Once he realizes they are annoyingly bugged, too difficult for the vast majority, and lack efficient overall rewards, Mr. Stahl will make the necessary adjustments to restore their luster. Another thing that is scaring people away are the vocal elite players. According to their philosophy and perspective, the only people who should be playing stfs are 'expert level players'. "Star Trek: Online's" forums are filled with vocal elite players stomping on the learning curves of pugs. I have seen vocal elite players belittle, degenerate, and slam new players for making mistakes. Even though some new players are having their issues, the vocal elite players have a problem with discriminating between a confused player, someone learning, and someone just being annoying. Its all or none with the vocal portion of elite players.
Technically, the vocal elite players, annoying freeloaders, bugs, difficulty settings, and lack of rewards have destroyed everyone' interested in stfs.
wise decision devs, to put back dilitium in stf..
1.yesterday i saw 3 fleet projects stopped with 0 dilitium, and the tier 0 embassy projects requiring dilitium as well.
2.your work would be in vane if no diltium reward in stf, players already refusing to do (new) STFs after the first (curiosity content) run.
3.the refining cap is already a "pain" for many players , so why should remove completely dilitium from stf ?..
4.already the dilitium amount required for fleet projects is huge .( i would prefer 10 times more dilitium required but in Ore not the refined one..)
5.the exchanging(converting) 5:1 doff instant mission requires (more) dilitium..( i guess you have some online statistics about the average usage of converting doffs and you might see now player don't exchange doffs anymore..therefore common doff prices are dropping down to 8k or even 5k)
Conclusion: better a smaller reward dilitium in STF than none..and your work to create Season 7 will be enjoyed NOT IGNORED by players also not lagging or server issues on the only dilitium rewarding instances such as Starbase 24..yesterday players was complaining about the fleet event entering issue.
And i know how hard it is to create new content, new characters, new textures, new meshes,new terrain maps,or new objects,new props , boolean modelling ,etc ..etc. My hobby is Daz Studio, Bryce, Maya,Mudbox, (soon Z-Brush) mostly in graphical and 3D art and i bet seeing your 3 months, or more, work results to be ignored is not funny..
Also want a tip to get more dollars to Cryptic ? Create shop content..lots of MORE shop content, not just 3 doff packs and 10 ships ..I play PWI of PWE since nov 2008 (open beta) , and believe me, you get "lost" when you visit the shop with such a big variety and lots of goodies..doesn't matter if its fantasy or scifi game , shop content variety will attract more dollar-zen buyers right ?
-You can create a new special lockbox available only from shop...you can create holograms to buy to put them in interior ships , you can create shop-only trophies droped from shop-lockboxes and so...more new stuff to attract buyers ..or to tempt them to spend more ..this the key to a wealthy bussiness, not forcing customers to buy more expensive.From let's say 15 items on shop, how many items types you will sell ? 7 maybe 8, but if you have 200 item types you will sell at least 40 types.
More end-game sets, Xindi faction, Xindi stf, undine stf,romulan stf, suliban instances, andorian events...new faction ships on shop.. etc etc
There are hundreds of species(races) in Star Trek (even if only mentioned) but in game are still missing lots of them ..create a new(missing) boff species/race for the zen shop or a playable one..etc etc
And by the way i like the Mine Trap with zombies a.k.a M-113 creature race
Why the cash shop is so small..?
Thank your reading this and you're welcome for the hints
- PWI - November, 2008 (2 months after North-America-West Coast open beta)
- Forsaken World - open beta
- BOI - open beta
- Star Trek Online - ftp January, 2012 and rank 14 STO Wiki contributor
- Neverwinter open beta June, 2013
Daily Foundry "Canyon of the Dead" ( NW-DBPJYKMRE ) - dungeon
IF they dumb down STF's to accommodate the vast majority you think aren't up to the task then I'll assume those STF's rewards will be nerfed again. The normals were created to learn those missions, and if you want that top-notch gear you better learn how to be an elite player instead of asking the devs to gimp the missions so you can have gear you're not deserving.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Really, I can understand the importance to keep the amount of dilithium controled in the game, and create ways to Crypt/PW get money to keep STO running. No problem with this. Is part of the game and we know, no one work for free.
But the main problem with the new rules of Dilithium is about how STO deal with this. Instead taking Dilithium to pay dutty officer, get GLP, Fleet Credits or another non-dilithium currency...
...Or review the whole price of projects, from starbase to embassy, because is really demotivating be a non-ultrahardcore gamer or just a casual player in STO with limited time for family, friends, work and more and have to spend your full free time collecting dilithium to keep your fleet projectos running, keep your reputation projects running, keep your dutty missions running.
In somepoint, "Grind to gain" become worse, boring and punitive to a largue number of players and they begin to ignore or abandone the projects and missions.
Sto need to value the time or each player (gold or silver, lifetime or free) to have fun and want to play more, without looking something punitive or
destructively addictive.
Yeah, we want to spend our time and money here, but please, the Grind to Gain formula become each day more and more cansative. The endgame lost your importance and running in circles to just to polish the ego of a fleet or players with time or with lots of money give a bad taste to other common players.
In the past, STF have the luck to find the items. Now is good because you have to play enough to get all rewards.
But again, in the STO, each day is more dificult to be motived to play new systems, finish projects and go in certains kind of game because everything is too dilithium oriented. And because the dilithium is the source of all problems (you need more to finish quickly or are forced to use this), everyone get pised if insted of changing the way of the game put a price of our efforts and time, raise the price of dilithium and remove how you get this.
I have a gold account, but every month is hard to me justify why keep it. Being a F2P or just go to another game is being really attractive if STO keep to following this idea of dilithium-eating in each step of the game.
Again, I not complay to pay something in the game, if is in zen, dilithium, EC, GLP or other thing. I complay about how STO begins to lose the fun and starts becomes tiring, stressful and begin to force the players to develop the greed of values.
The S7 is awesome. But the price tag in some services and projects really make me to think twice if really worths my time. Sorry dastah, I really love star trek and STO, but sometimes is really hard.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You don't seem to have been to many other PWE sites or seen many other PWE game launchers have you?
On topic: It's a compromise. Compromise entails each side giving up something to achieve a middle ground. No, you're not getting back the way things were, true. But you're getting something back. Give them a little time to look at the numbers and see if they're willing to give a little more.
It's a flustercluck from hell, I'm sure, but something came of it.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Here's a map to show how much they've screwed up the game map.
I was impressed with S7 but as some have stated before the removal of the dilithium rewards from STF's seemed to overshadow everything that was done. I was usually able to reach my 8000k dilithium cap (I'm a lifer but I didn't manage to get 9000k regularly) but since S7 went live (granted it's only a few days old) I never even came close. I love STF's but I'm not a big fan of the other ways available to get dilithium. I do believe you maid the right decision.
Again thank you and keep up the good work. As a KDF player I'm eagerly looking forward to S8 and maybe to a Romulan faction
Its not fun, its just grinding and grinding, none stop. Its not just the excessive costs in dilithium, its the timegating as well. If there was a Z store token that could be purchased that gives instant access to tier 5 store content (say 2500 zen) then I might grind the necessary dil for that even if I have to pay more dil just to get the stuff I want.
This is just disgraceful.
Now about the DOff grinder... <__<
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
nope they do not just done 6 space fleet actions and no dilithium , and neither do stf's so what gives Mr. Stahl ?
DELTA PRICE RISING
This has much effect on the player base as dropping a stone in the ocean. You've got to open your eyes and see the wood for the trees.... or in your case, see the trees in general. You can't continue to turn a blind eye to some of the horrible changes you've made.
After this long up hill struggle to get back in the position we once were in to buy that elite gear, we've got to spend around 80k dilithium for one piece. Now, even if I were able to make enough dilithium to buy all the equipment I want, I would have to wait every 10 days to refine enough to buy it. That's one piece every 10-11 days based on what you said a piece of equipment should cost. If we're willing to put the hard work in, why make it even more difficult?
Reduce the wait times on the projects, either make the gear purchasable with Marks or remove the dilithium fees for Crafting and the General Recruitment of DOFF's on SFA and replace it with EC or even Fleet Credits. The other bright spark idea you came up with is increasing the fee on the Reassigning Duty Officers to get better qualities. So let's look at the facts:
White to Green: Now 500 Dilithium - Increase from 25
Green to Blue: Now 2500 Dilithium - Increase from 100
Blue to Purple: Now 5000 Dilithium - Increase from 500
B-Tran Double Reward - GONE (1440 Dil Reward Reduction)
Embassy Added - More Dil projects
Fleet Projects still not scaled or reduced on Dil requirements except for Tier IV and V (which not alot of people I know have even reached yet.)
End game gear - Average 85k Dil per piece.
General Recruitment Doff - 1k Dil each.
The cost of a Common Unreplicateable Material is 10 Refined dilithium
The cost of an Uncommon Unreplicateable Material is 1000 Refined dilithium
Dil Store - Still there.
Dilithium Cap Increase - Oh, still not done that?
How do you expect people to enjoy this game with these kind of unreasonable targets? You want us to refine more, but you take more avenues away for us to earn it. You give us more things that cost dilithium or increase the cap on stuff that didn't need increasing but yet don't change the Refinement Cap. Many players have families to take care of and full time jobs, at the same time we don't expect everything to be handed over to us on a silver platter, but you should make it fair so we can get a good challenge and still enjoy our experience.
I use to play Final Fantasy 11 for about 8 years and now I have Final Fantasy 14 online. Before you login you get a message -
"Exploring Vana'diel is a thrilling experience.
During your time here, you will be able to talk, join,
and adventure with many other individuals in an experience
that is unique to online games.
That being said, we have no desire to see your real life
suffer as a consequence.
Don't forget your family, your friends, your school,
or your work."
You should really take a page out of their book. As it feels like in order to get anywhere and enjoy the experience of everything this game has to offer we need to devote all our free time, which in turn would effect our real lives. Now I know many might say that your not holding a gun against our heads and we don't have to play and that it's free, so be happy. But a free service is still a service and there are still all the players that have put plenty of time and money in this game including the Gold Members and LTS (myself included).
Remember what Star Trek is about and equality for everybody. If you focus on service and don't worry about your income, you'll find that the income will come anyway because it will make people want to be and stay a part of STO.
Dear Mr. Stahl,
I'm a former Gold player for around 2 years and I'm actually a F2P gamer. I loved the game and i was considering IF i should subscribe a LTS. I'm deeply concerned about it since YOUR COMPANY lost my personal & financial data due to sloppiness and carelessness in securing such sensitive information. However, i was really interested to buy a LTS before S7. Now, this interest is lost!
I'm glad that you (as a representative of Cryptic/PWE) partially-reversed the foolish removal of dilithium from STFs; but, the removal of dilithium - an in-game currency - from the STFs was not the only problem in the game economy of S7. With the new Season we have got reduced earning of in-game currencies (Yes, also Exchange economics have been affected by S7 due to changes in inputs needed for Fleet Starbases' projects) coupled with an huge increase in costs due - as an example - to the need of dilithium inputs to acquire and reassign our DOFFs. You claim your concern about too much dilithium flooding S7 however your way to deal with the issue was overreacting! If we were in the real world the situation Cryptic/PWE made with the S7 patch was called a "Credit Crunch"!
I did some maths about the costs to acquire and reassign our DOFFs:
1 Very Rare DOFF (Purple) = 155000 dilithium (5x Blue DOFFs + 5000 dilithium fee)
1 Rare DOFF (Blue) = 30000 dilithium (5x Green DOFFs + 2500 dilithium fee)
1 Uncommon DOFF (Green) = 5500 dilithium (5x White DOFFs + the 500 dilithium fee)
1 Common DOFF (White) = 1000 dilithium
Now, I see currency trading on Dilithium Exchange at 1 Zen = 159 Dilithium. You put a "Federation Duty Officer Pack" on sale in the Store at 200 Zen and a "Reinforcements Duty Officer Pack" at 275 Zen. So, We could even save something if We buy such packs on the Store but, people didn't use the "Reassign under-performing Duty Officers" mission to acquire DOFFs on the cheap! They used this mission to free up their rosters that fill up very rapidly, no matters how big they are. Dismissing them is a total loss since you already revised rewards from dismissing DOFFs downward during S6, and with S7 you've not corrected the imbalance, yet.
During previous Seasons I've been used to convert Zen not earned in game into dilithium to help me reach some target like buying a Tier V ship or something else. Now, You force me also to grind as much as possible (a.k.a. staying longer connected to STO) to keep the pace with other players. I cannot grind that much - even with the correction you made today - and i cannot put more real world money in a game due to real world financial constraints. So, You're basically kicking me out of the game.
I don't like also your changes on requirements for Fleet Starbase projects. My fleet was one of the few fleets doing Bartender project during S6 at huge costs. After the completion of the said project, We started saving and collecting to prepare for the Chef project of Tier IV. I bought a Purple Cardassian Chef on the Exchange to help them acquire Cardassian Taspar Eggs and make energy credits to eventually acquire the Hearts of Targ needed to start the aforesaid project. Now, this is no longer useful and energy credits lost since you decided to change the rules of playing by putting common items in Fleet Starbase Projects. I've also been used to replicate some stacks of Cardassian Taspar Eggs to put them on sale on the Exchange during the night; now, I've all the said Eggs from the night before the S7 Patch blocking my Exchange slots. I'm not too eager taking such a loss in Energy Credits, too. Since you give an unfair advantage to other fleets/players we must be compensated for our losses!
I should complain also about your foolish disabling of the Foundry and of the Private Queues but here in Europe is already late...so, be prepared to receive a separate complain about the Foundry and of the Private Queues in the next few days.
Regards,
Where is that info? is that currently on holodeck? I never checked. But if that is so... then that is even worse than before XD
On a side note, like I said, they threw a few crumbs after robbing our Bread Loaf... it feels so empty.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
This might have been said by someone else but I want to say it. The players control the economy and the players are well always greedy. The market shouldnt change that much because there is a bit more dilithium. I myself hold onto a lot of dilithium. Heck I use to have 200K but I used it on my fleet. We will deal with the extra dilithium better than you think we will i suspect. And you know what we will better be able to take care of our fleets and our mates after all we still can only convert 8000.
I look forward to the next addition to the game and am still very hopeful in the prospect of the Romulans being in some way shape or form playable.
You might want to change those statistics. Whether it's a glitch or not I'm not sure but I just went to check this and it's showing to get 1 Very Rare it's 6000 Dilithium + 5 Rare Doffs, 3000 Dilithium for Rare and 600 for Uncommon. So either Cryptic has made a mistake or they've done this behind our backs, as I didn't see anything about this change being made. Apologies if it already has been mentioned.
I am a goner, see you in another game
I thought these changes were supposed to help us continue to have fun in the game? It's turned out the exact opposite for me.
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
Bravo !
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I based my maths on price charged by SFA's Personnel Officer; however, following your post I double check your claims and I've noticed that Species-specific Personnel Officers - namely Vulcans, Tellarites and Andorians - charged the amount you are pointing out! :eek: Since I've been unable to find such change in the Release Notes, I think it is worth a ticket of his own!
Thank you!
He's not Bravo at all! He did an half-hearted apoligy...to mask the reality of S7 changes! Are you paid by Cryptic/PWE to spread disinformation here?
Cheers!
Edit: Correct mistype.
Sorry, this is to much like real life. I don't mind flipping you a few bucks here and there for a fun-to-play distraction from my real concerns, but when a few hours a day of GRINDING for in-game currency completely overshadows the attraction of new content, you've lost me.
I'm looking elsewhere for my entertainment now. No need to delete my characters and I'll check in from time to time, but Cryptic and STO can rest assured they've received my CC info for the last time. Thanks, I had fun, but it's time to move on.
thanks for the improvement! Fantastic change... was a little depressed before that.
I do not want to be greedy or something, but could you as well enable some "loot" for STFs. I mean nothing big, just something, so that we can role the dice once more
PS: Here an edit:
read now some player feedback... yes, I can understand, that people are upset about taking it away and giving a small amount back... but I can also understand to limit the dilithium input to players... It was ERY easy to fill a few characters up to their heads with dilithium ore...
Nontheless, the problem of completing anything and the sameness of the fleet and reputation system mentioned before as well as the reduction in STFs' loot make them and a lot things a bit boring...
I do not want to curse or defame anyone, just mentioning that old things got monotonous. I liked flying STFs and earning some dilithium, energy credits and maybe some good weaponary (Borg are advanced... there could always be something nice in the wrackage, Janeway showed us!!!
STARBASE ADVANCEMENT:
I think it is a wise idea to reduce the cost of Starbase Improvement, BUT was there a need to take the fun for hunting out of it? There is no need to gather specific goods like the "Contract Bartender" from before. Yes it was a lot, but it was doable (the "Contract Chef" with the 1000 Klingon Heart of Targ was a little big and I am glad that it is not there anymore..) However is there no way in between? Now, I have to farm Dilithium and Energy Credits and the build grows... there is no fun in that. Almost every project is the same in its requirements (more or less, but it is the same) A little hunt once in a while might be invigorating for almost everyone.
I liked the new STF and the new "Borg" Sector Invasion... !!! Have to say the good things, too!
The STF needs some variable back, if I have to say anything about it. Bring the DICING back, let us role once more for the loot. Where is the greed!
Indeed, I need greed!
BASICS TO DO (according to me):
balance the efficiency of missions for their loot-time basics and people will play everything (just to mention one thing: CURE now is as hard as before and does not reward anything more or less then the other two old STFs - why not change the amount of marks to earn?) people will in the end choose the missions most effective for their in-game needs and their fun will decrease because they need things to advance while the fun will cease (if you do not advance, you won't have fun either)
make players pay a lot more reputation marks for faction advancement and reduce other things. REPUTATION IS EARNED BY DEEDS not FEES
put some variety into starbase projects to widen the field of hunt for things and not just for Energy Credits and Dilithium. This might be motivation to play the Temple Event to get some Romulan Ale.... or maybe make some missions to drop there a specific good needed for a project or make it the reward for the mission -> people will play all missions, if they need the things out of them... and the will sell these things for people who nontheless do not want to play it!
If this is the wrong place for this.... tell me, I am farely new to this forum work.
Best,
D
I have to say I am enjoying S7 content, and new Romulus is fun.
My only concern now is ship weapons.
The loot drop in Elite STFs was one of the only sources of non borg high end Mk XII weapons.
Where will we be able to get them from now ? I know there are fleet stores, and one set of new plasma ship weapons from the Romulan reputation store. But there's a lot less likelihood of receiving nice purple Mk XII ship weapons... Is this because you're going to revamp crafting ? Just curious....
DELTA PRICE RISING
I am having the same problem..... only getting fleet marks, no dil from Fleet Events. I am confirmed this more than once last night.
thx
Locutus
Delirium Tremens
Tier 4 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy
http://dtfleet.com/