Another thing that might be causing your issue is the omega passive. It was bugged in the past and might still be bugging up the shield regen display but I have no clue just a possibility.
Another thing that might be causing your issue is the omega passive. It was bugged in the past and might still be bugging up the shield regen display but I have no clue just a possibility.
Possibly, but I have heard that it is currently disabled. And I am inclined to believe the source.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Possibly, but I have heard that it is currently disabled. And I am inclined to believe the source.
If you've got the shield regen passive, and the above numbers are what you're seeing, then said passive is either not showing it's effects on the tooltip, or is indeed offline.
If you've got the shield regen passive, and the above numbers are what you're seeing, then said passive is either not showing it's effects on the tooltip, or is indeed offline.
Considering 9 points in shield emitters gives you a ~30% shield regen boost (which is shown by those pictures), and the passive is supposed to add on at least 250 per shield facing, only having those tiny numbers as shield regen (aka under 250 per facing) means it's probably the case and the passive is indeed disabled.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Considering 9 points in shield emitters gives you a ~30% shield regen boost (which is shown by those pictures), and the passive is supposed to add on at least 250 per shield facing, only having those tiny numbers as shield regen (aka under 250 per facing) means it's probably the case and the passive is indeed disabled.
I think I read something about the Omega shield regen passive being disabled on the PvP forums as well. I wonder what the reaction would be if it was indeeed disabled and it became well known lol. People would be outraged, but probably not surprised.
I think I read something about the Omega shield regen passive being disabled on the PvP forums as well. I wonder what the reaction would be if it was indeeed disabled and it became well known lol. People would be outraged, but probably not surprised.
Well due to the massive outrage at it's original strength, followed by the massive outrage at it's nerf, I think they are going to keep it disabled until they can either reach a middle ground or decide which one to go with.
Sufficed to say, I am still able to tank pretty well in ESTFs with my cruisers even without the passive, but it was helpful.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Considering 9 points in shield emitters gives you a ~30% shield regen boost (which is shown by those pictures), and the passive is supposed to add on at least 250 per shield facing, only having those tiny numbers as shield regen (aka under 250 per facing) means it's probably the case and the passive is indeed disabled.
Emitter skill gives a regen boost? Are you 100% positive, I am not trying to be difficult I just don't see what in those pictures leads you to said conclusion.
Just tested with a +Skill console, no change show anywhere I don't think that is correct.
Emitter skill gives a regen boost? Are you 100% positive, I am not trying to be difficult I just don't see what in those pictures leads you to said conclusion.
Just tested with a +Skill console, no change show anywhere I don't think that is correct.
Well something gives a regen boost, and that 1 extra point in shields can't possibly give the level of boost I am seeing. And I had faster recharging shields before I got the tier 4 passive. And the only skill that appears to affect shield regen is the Shield Emitter skill. So I can only conclude that is the case. But the whole point of that set of screenshots was to contest your statement that shield modifier affected regen rates, and I was wrong.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Well something gives a regen boost, and that 1 extra point in shields can't possibly give the level of boost I am seeing. And I had faster recharging shields before I got the tier 4 passive. And the only skill that appears to affect shield regen is the Shield Emitter skill. So I can only conclude that is the case. But the whole point of that set of screenshots was to contest your statement that shield modifier affected regen rates, and I was wrong.
Likely a rounding of shield power as it is a quite significant modifier. I got the basic formula down for the most part for shield regen/capacity the post is in PvP forums. Sadly though emitter skill doesn't boost it.
I got excited as that would have been awesome for emitter skill to boost it.
I think the biggest problem people are encountering in this discussion (Cruisers vs. Escorts) is that their assuming that as a Tank a Cruiser needs to do so much damage that they out Damage the dedicated Damage Dealing ship. To borrow an analogy from Dungeons and Dragons: Cruisers are effectively the Paladins or Fighters of Star Trek Online, while Escorts are effectively the Wizards and Sorcerers. Science Ships for their part are the Clerics.
In essence the job of the Cruiser is to sit there absorb as much damage as possible and to protect the smaller vessels. In a similar fashion a Paladin and a Fighter, while not necessarily the class that offers the highest possible DPS in Dungeons and Dragons are both the largest target because they look the most menacing. Though smart NPC's in D&D will always target the Cleric or the Wizard, it is up to the Fighter and the Paladin to prevent that from happening. The job of the Escort however, is to deal as much damage in as short a time as possible, much like how a Wizard in D&D is capable of summoning the fires of hell down on its enemy.
Yes, even in D&D a properly built wizard can effectively take down the strongest of monsters single handedly, but it is not designed to do so right out of the gate. Much in the same way a properly built Escort can arguably tank a Tactical Cube, but not without risking serious damage to itself unless it has support from other ships. A Cruiser on the other hand can in theory take on the damage from a Tactical Cube and keep on trucking. It may not be able to singlehandedly destroy the Tactical Cube, but it would be able to provide decent covering fire.
This is similar if not identical to what happens in the actual Star Trek TV Series and respective movies. It was likely a Tactical Cube or something similar that attacked Earth in Star Trek First Contact. And it took 3-4 Escorts and the Enterprise-E to stop that ship cold. Even in The Next Generation it took ingenuity on the part of the crew to actually stand a chance against Borg vessels.
The Voyager for example required technology far in advance of its own, or borrowed from the Undine in order to actually stand a fighting chance against the Borg Armada. And that's saying something since at the time it entered the Delta Quadrant the Voyager was the peak of technology that Starfleet had to offer! The Enterprise-E itself was designed specifically to be able to battle the Borg (as was the Defiant, which is sad since it suffered the greatest damage in that battle).
Also, it is worth noting that the Enterprise-D's armament is nearly identical to that which is found on Cruisers in Star Trek Online. It has two beam arrays one each on the top and bottom of the Saucer Section, one beam array on the bottom of the Stardrive section, and what appears to be 2 beam arrays, one on each of the Pylons. Additionally it has 2 Forward facing Torpedo Tubes, and 1 Aft facing Torpedo Tube. I may be off by one beam array which if I am it is located on the rear bottom of the stardrive section (the previously mentioned one is on the forward bottom of the stardrive section). All told that is between 8 and 9 dedicated artillery devices. And this is all on a ship not designed primarily as a war ship.
The Enterprise-E probably has more Beam Arrays and Torpedo Tubes, but as I haven't had the opportunity to look at a model of the Enterprise-E yet I can't say for certain. Even if it doesn't the Enterprise-E does happen to have far superior weapons than the Enterprise-D had. That said, we are still talking about absolutely massive ships with horrible turn rates. Even in the movies they banked like Boeing 747's, not like Jet Fighters. For Jet Fighter turn rates we are going to be looking at either shuttlecraft or escorts, not cruisers.
So really comparing the various Enterprise's to the Defiant is an effort in futility.
In essence the job of the Cruiser is to sit there absorb as much damage as possible and to protect the smaller vessels.
I don't really disagree with you there. My question is, how exactly does absorbing damage protect the smaller vessels?
It doesn't.
If your Paladin analogy held true, then the Cruiser's primary means of defending anything would be to put itself between the attacker and the attacker's target and force the attacker to engage it instead.
But that's not the way it works even in PvE. Mind you, I'm not sure that shielding allied targets is the right paradigm. But I really dislike the fact that Cruisers are pigeonholed into the healboat role with these magical shield and hull healing abilities that are NOT really canon. Self-healing, yes. Ally-healing, no.
There should be a solid reason supported by game mechanics why a cruiser should be a primary target and why survivability should matter, and there isn't one except for the fact that they turn like beached whales and as such they're easy targets. They are not much of a threat to any high-DPS unit following a hit-and-run strategy, and the high end Escorts simply don't fit the "glass cannon" description too well.
I really wish that the game made some attempt at following something reasonably close to a naval and air tactics paradigm. Carriers would fill their current role for long-range striking power. Cruisers would effectively be the heavy offense ships (Battleships, Bombers) that pound fortified units and primarily protect the carriers. Science Vessels would be used for electronic warfare, recon, and defense.
And Escorts?
I'm going to take some heat for this, but in my opinion a lone Escort should not be able to take out a Cruiser by itself unless it gets really lucky (the Defiant being a notable exception). A so-called Alpha strike might potentially cripple a Cruiser, but not destroy it unless it's already weakened. Tactically, they should fill about the same role that an assault copter, fighter jet, or a stealth bomber fills in modern military forces. Totally hit-and-run and somewhat more expendable than a heavier unit. True glass cannons whose primary defense is mobility and that function better in groups than alone.
Cruiser damage should be heavy but slow... Escorts should still be the kings of DPS, but because they're firing faster and hitting more often, not because they're doing more raw damage.
But that's not the game we have and I don't think we'll ever see more than a shadow of that.
I do think that one possible idea that would give Cruisers a better tactical reason to exist would be more effective long-range striking ability. That would act to give them an initial advantage at ranges where low turn rate is not a problem. That advantage then fades when the range closes and the combat turns into a dogfight, where the Escorts and DHC's shine and the Cruiser's primary defense is survivability, point defenses, and other Escorts.
This would also open up a role for a Recon/SciScort ship that can act as an advance scout seeking out targets on behalf of the long-range attackers and sniffing out cloaked/masked ships trying to sneak into close range.
Another idea is to buff up Beam Arrays in some fashion, so that a cruiser isn't effectively penalized for equipping them. Lots of notions have been floated about how to do that in a way that's fair to all of the classes, and I won't go into any of those in this post.
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I don't really disagree with you there. My question is, how exactly does absorbing damage protect the smaller vessels?
It doesn't.
If your Paladin analogy held true, then the Cruiser's primary means of defending anything would be to put itself between the attacker and the attacker's target and force the attacker to engage it instead.
But that's not the way it works even in PvE. Mind you, I'm not sure that shielding allied targets is the right paradigm. But I really dislike the fact that Cruisers are pigeonholed into the healboat role with these magical shield and hull healing abilities that are NOT really canon. Self-healing, yes. Ally-healing, no.
There should be a solid reason supported by game mechanics why a cruiser should be a primary target and why survivability should matter, and there isn't one except for the fact that they turn like beached whales and as such they're easy targets. They are not much of a threat to any high-DPS unit following a hit-and-run strategy, and the high end Escorts simply don't fit the "glass cannon" description too well.
I really wish that the game made some attempt at following something reasonably close to a naval and air tactics paradigm. Carriers would fill their current role for long-range striking power. Cruisers would effectively be the heavy offense ships (Battleships, Bombers) that pound fortified units and primarily protect the carriers. Science Vessels would be used for electronic warfare, recon, and defense.
And Escorts?
I'm going to take some heat for this, but in my opinion a lone Escort should not be able to take out a Cruiser by itself unless it gets really lucky (the Defiant being a notable exception). A so-called Alpha strike might potentially cripple a Cruiser, but not destroy it unless it's already weakened. Tactically, they should fill about the same role that an assault copter, fighter jet, or a stealth bomber fills in modern military forces. Totally hit-and-run and somewhat more expendable than a heavier unit. True glass cannons whose primary defense is mobility and that function better in groups than alone.
Cruiser damage should be heavy but slow... Escorts should still be the kings of DPS, but because they're firing faster and hitting more often, not because they're doing more raw damage.
But that's not the game we have and I don't think we'll ever see more than a shadow of that.
I do think that one possible idea that would give Cruisers a better tactical reason to exist would be more effective long-range striking ability. That would act to give them an initial advantage at ranges where low turn rate is not a problem. That advantage then fades when the range closes and the combat turns into a dogfight, where the Escorts and DHC's shine and the Cruiser's primary defense is survivability, point defenses, and other Escorts.
This would also open up a role for a Recon/SciScort ship that can act as an advance scout seeking out targets on behalf of the long-range attackers and sniffing out cloaked/masked ships trying to sneak into close range.
Another idea is to buff up Beam Arrays in some fashion, so that a cruiser isn't effectively penalized for equipping them. Lots of notions have been floated about how to do that in a way that's fair to all of the classes, and I won't go into any of those in this post.
I don't really disagree with you there. My question is, how exactly does absorbing damage protect the smaller vessels?
It doesn't.
If your Paladin analogy held true, then the Cruiser's primary means of defending anything would be to put itself between the attacker and the attacker's target and force the attacker to engage it instead.
But that's not the way it works even in PvE. Mind you, I'm not sure that shielding allied targets is the right paradigm. But I really dislike the fact that Cruisers are pigeonholed into the healboat role with these magical shield and hull healing abilities that are NOT really canon. Self-healing, yes. Ally-healing, no.
There should be a solid reason supported by game mechanics why a cruiser should be a primary target and why survivability should matter, and there isn't one except for the fact that they turn like beached whales and as such they're easy targets. They are not much of a threat to any high-DPS unit following a hit-and-run strategy, and the high end Escorts simply don't fit the "glass cannon" description too well.
I really wish that the game made some attempt at following something reasonably close to a naval and air tactics paradigm. Carriers would fill their current role for long-range striking power. Cruisers would effectively be the heavy offense ships (Battleships, Bombers) that pound fortified units and primarily protect the carriers. Science Vessels would be used for electronic warfare, recon, and defense.
And Escorts?
I'm going to take some heat for this, but in my opinion a lone Escort should not be able to take out a Cruiser by itself unless it gets really lucky (the Defiant being a notable exception). A so-called Alpha strike might potentially cripple a Cruiser, but not destroy it unless it's already weakened. Tactically, they should fill about the same role that an assault copter, fighter jet, or a stealth bomber fills in modern military forces. Totally hit-and-run and somewhat more expendable than a heavier unit. True glass cannons whose primary defense is mobility and that function better in groups than alone.
Cruiser damage should be heavy but slow... Escorts should still be the kings of DPS, but because they're firing faster and hitting more often, not because they're doing more raw damage.
But that's not the game we have and I don't think we'll ever see more than a shadow of that.
I do think that one possible idea that would give Cruisers a better tactical reason to exist would be more effective long-range striking ability. That would act to give them an initial advantage at ranges where low turn rate is not a problem. That advantage then fades when the range closes and the combat turns into a dogfight, where the Escorts and DHC's shine and the Cruiser's primary defense is survivability, point defenses, and other Escorts.
This would also open up a role for a Recon/SciScort ship that can act as an advance scout seeking out targets on behalf of the long-range attackers and sniffing out cloaked/masked ships trying to sneak into close range.
Another idea is to buff up Beam Arrays in some fashion, so that a cruiser isn't effectively penalized for equipping them. Lots of notions have been floated about how to do that in a way that's fair to all of the classes, and I won't go into any of those in this post.
Why would the Defiant be the only exception? As the first Escort class for the feds would it not be the base platform from which future escorts would be measured?
I agree on beam arrays, and have stated ideas both mine and others on how they may be buffed without further unbalancing the game.
As to glass cannons, they are if you remove thier defenses, mainly thier movement, and the fault with STO right now is that its more difficult to do so - certainly the NPCs are very bad at doing so.
We would have tougher better damage dealing cruiser play if some of the balanced ideas given where implemented without ruining Escorts in process. Some are very good ideas in my opinion though I do wonder if it would be accepted by the playerbase whom sees cruisers and escorts from the eyes of fandom?
If fans can accept the idea of slaughtering hordes of enemy ships while flying the UFP flag so to speak I don't see it being an issue.
All kidding aside as far as the shows go from my recollection aside from the 'hero' ship of the day the others were considered more of less of equal capabilities with the tide turner being said hero ship or ingenuity by one of them.
But really most perspectives on capabilities fall from what the 'hero' ships are seen to do. And just like Superman they are as powerful, fast, nimble, and advanced as the plot requires. Nothing more nothing less. And on that note it is off topic but I do have to plug B5 as being one of the few Sci Fi shows where even the most advanced hero ship, the White Stars, did tend to explode an awful lot when attacked by heavy hitters.
If fans can accept the idea of slaughtering hordes of enemy ships while flying the UFP flag so to speak I don't see it being an issue.
All kidding aside as far as the shows go from my recollection aside from the 'hero' ship of the day the others were considered more of less of equal capabilities with the tide turner being said hero ship or ingenuity by one of them.
But really most perspectives on capabilities fall from what the 'hero' ships are seen to do. And just like Superman they are as powerful, fast, nimble, and advanced as the plot requires. Nothing more nothing less. And on that note it is off topic but I do have to plug B5 as being one of the few Sci Fi shows where even the most advanced hero ship, the White Stars, did tend to explode an awful lot when attacked by heavy hitters.
While I love me a B5 reference, it's not the best analogy. The White Star was a ship built with technology that was literally centuries ahead of it's time when compared to every comparable space force. This was the reason it was able to take on ships many times it's size, which in the B5 'verse was not something that was normally strategically possible without extensive numerical superiority.
It's also the reason why as the other races continued to advance, White Stars started taking more and more casualties, and necessitated the development of the Excalibur-class Destroyers (which effectively wiped the floor with just about anything it went toe to toe with).
While I love me a B5 reference, it's not the best analogy. The White Star was a ship built with technology that was literally centuries ahead of it's time when compared to every comparable space force. This was the reason it was able to take on ships many times it's size, which in the B5 'verse was not something that was normally strategically possible without extensive numerical superiority.
It's also the reason why as the other races continued to advance, White Stars started taking more and more casualties, and necessitated the development of the Excalibur-class Destroyers (which effectively wiped the floor with just about anything it went toe to toe with).
They still got toasted by Earth Alliance Destroyers in the war even with that amazing tech and speed was my point is all. Even the 'hero' ship of b5 got spanked quite often. Not to mention how they fared against the Shadow/Vorlon ships, Omega Destroyers, or that other wierd race I can't remember that I steal my 'skin dancing' term from on Cubes.
White Stars had the firepower and the speed but still went pop from the equivalent of a single Beam Overload hit from a cruiser.
I do think that one possible idea that would give Cruisers a better tactical reason to exist would be more effective long-range striking ability. That would act to give them an initial advantage at ranges where low turn rate is not a problem. That advantage then fades when the range closes and the combat turns into a dogfight, where the Escorts and DHC's shine and the Cruiser's primary defense is survivability, point defenses, and other Escorts.
This would also open up a role for a Recon/SciScort ship that can act as an advance scout seeking out targets on behalf of the long-range attackers and sniffing out cloaked/masked ships trying to sneak into close range.
Another idea is to buff up Beam Arrays in some fashion, so that a cruiser isn't effectively penalized for equipping them. Lots of notions have been floated about how to do that in a way that's fair to all of the classes, and I won't go into any of those in this post.
Yeah, something I've had in mind for a long time, even stated a few months back in a thread. However the only problem here is that even if cruisers become effective artillery craft, distance closing is too easy. I know for a fact that my chel'gret warship can close 10k in about 8 seconds, and my defiant even faster. And then cruisers would get mauled again, due to them being less effective from closer up (as your idea states).
Slightly problematic methinks, if the idea was to make cruisers stronger.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Another idea is to buff up Beam Arrays in some fashion, so that a cruiser isn't effectively penalized for equipping them. Lots of notions have been floated about how to do that in a way that's fair to all of the classes, and I won't go into any of those in this post.
How about a heavy beam array that can only be fitted to cruisers much like DHCs can only be fitted to escorts and battlecruisers, that gives beam arrays a firepower comparable or even superior to DHCs, but with a significant accuracy penalty? Battleship Cruisers wielding these will thus have the kind of firepower you'd expect from ships that are canonically classified as battleships, but they won't make Escorts irrelevant because trying to hit a target like an Escort with one would be an exercise like attempting to swat a fly with a hammer. Capital ships thus deliver pain to each other and to static targets like Cubes, but Escorts retain the superior ability to shoot down things that have somewhat more mobility.
How about a heavy beam array that can only be fitted to cruisers much like DHCs can only be fitted to escorts and battlecruisers, that gives beam arrays a firepower comparable or even superior to DHCs, but with a significant accuracy penalty? Battleship Cruisers wielding these will thus have the kind of firepower you'd expect from ships that are canonically classified as battleships, but they won't make Escorts irrelevant because trying to hit a target like an Escort with one would be an exercise like attempting to swat a fly with a hammer. Capital ships thus deliver pain to each other and to static targets like Cubes, but Escorts retain the superior ability to shoot down things that have somewhat more mobility.
I'm not sure when fed cruisers were "canonically classified" as battleships. I think you meant to say "Dreadnought" which has some basis in canon. Lucky for you, such a ship already exists, the Galaxy-X is ready and waiting for you. Its a huge brick with some really powerful weapons, and can even mount DHCs.
They still got toasted by Earth Alliance Destroyers in the war even with that amazing tech and speed was my point is all. Even the 'hero' ship of b5 got spanked quite often. Not to mention how they fared against the Shadow/Vorlon ships, Omega Destroyers, or that other wierd race I can't remember that I steal my 'skin dancing' term from on Cubes.
White Stars had the firepower and the speed but still went pop from the equivalent of a single Beam Overload hit from a cruiser.
To be fair, other cruisers often went pop from the equivalent of a single BO from other cruisers.
I hear you, but they're also about the only ships in B5 that could even be considered "Escorts" as the tech for small, maneuverable gunships carrying firepower to rival battleships simply didn't exist in that 'verse prior to the development of the White Star. And while I may be mistaken, White Stars took very minimal casualties going up against stock Omegas (I want to say it was friendly Auroras and Thunderbolts that were getting hammered in those fights), it wasn't until Clark fielded his hybrid Shadow-tech vessels that the hurt really got dropped on the White Star fleet (and consequently yielded one of my favorite pissed off Russian chick lines ever).
And the species you're trying to remember is Drakh.
To be fair, other cruisers often went pop from the equivalent of a single BO from other cruisers.
I hear you, but they're also about the only ships in B5 that could even be considered "Escorts" as the tech for small, maneuverable gunships carrying firepower to rival battleships simply didn't exist in that 'verse prior to the development of the White Star. And while I may be mistaken, White Stars took very minimal casualties going up against stock Omegas (I want to say it was friendly Auroras and Thunderbolts that were getting hammered in those fights), it wasn't until Clark fielded his hybrid Shadow-tech vessels that the hurt really got dropped on the White Star fleet (and consequently yielded one of my favorite pissed off Russian chick lines ever).
And the species you're trying to remember is Drakh.
Some of the Unaligned Races used escort like vessels if I'm not mistaken, like the purple/green dudes if I recall correctly. But yes many of the explosions against earth destroyers were fighters but there were quite a few White Stars that got popped too. Man I loved those fights and one liners, especially the Dalen(sp) line when she showed up at B5 while it was under attack.
Some of the Unaligned Races used escort like vessels if I'm not mistaken, like the purple/green dudes if I recall correctly. But yes many of the explosions against earth destroyers were fighters but there were quite a few White Stars that got popped too. Man I loved those fights and one liners, especially the Dalen(sp) line when she showed up at B5 while it was under attack.
From what I recall the only fights we saw between stock Omegas and White Stars were the initial strike against Proxima 3 (I believe one White Star went down there), the opening of the episode where Ivonova learns about the Omega-X (shadow hybrid) Destroyer group (a few got winged but no losses) and the strike against the Loyalist fleet over Mars (again, I believe a few sustained damage but only one or two White Star losses since the majority of the Loyalist were disabled by the weaponized telepaths, the bulk of the losses later in the EP came against Earth's planetary defense satellites).
You're thinking of the Drazi's Sunhawks, which (and I could be completely off base here) were their primary warships because they lacked the industrial capacity to actually build anything larger or more advanced.
It's Delenn, and yes, Straczynski knew how to write.
Comments
Yerp will do when I get home.
Possibly, but I have heard that it is currently disabled. And I am inclined to believe the source.
Odyssey Tactical Cruiser. Shield mod 1.15
Regen Rate: 167.3/6
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/198/assaultcruiser.jpg/
Assault Cruiser. Shield mod 1.0
Regen Rate: 145.5/6
I stand corrected.
If you've got the shield regen passive, and the above numbers are what you're seeing, then said passive is either not showing it's effects on the tooltip, or is indeed offline.
Considering 9 points in shield emitters gives you a ~30% shield regen boost (which is shown by those pictures), and the passive is supposed to add on at least 250 per shield facing, only having those tiny numbers as shield regen (aka under 250 per facing) means it's probably the case and the passive is indeed disabled.
I think I read something about the Omega shield regen passive being disabled on the PvP forums as well. I wonder what the reaction would be if it was indeeed disabled and it became well known lol. People would be outraged, but probably not surprised.
Well due to the massive outrage at it's original strength, followed by the massive outrage at it's nerf, I think they are going to keep it disabled until they can either reach a middle ground or decide which one to go with.
Sufficed to say, I am still able to tank pretty well in ESTFs with my cruisers even without the passive, but it was helpful.
Emitter skill gives a regen boost? Are you 100% positive, I am not trying to be difficult I just don't see what in those pictures leads you to said conclusion.
Just tested with a +Skill console, no change show anywhere I don't think that is correct.
Well something gives a regen boost, and that 1 extra point in shields can't possibly give the level of boost I am seeing. And I had faster recharging shields before I got the tier 4 passive. And the only skill that appears to affect shield regen is the Shield Emitter skill. So I can only conclude that is the case. But the whole point of that set of screenshots was to contest your statement that shield modifier affected regen rates, and I was wrong.
Likely a rounding of shield power as it is a quite significant modifier. I got the basic formula down for the most part for shield regen/capacity the post is in PvP forums. Sadly though emitter skill doesn't boost it.
I got excited as that would have been awesome for emitter skill to boost it.
In essence the job of the Cruiser is to sit there absorb as much damage as possible and to protect the smaller vessels. In a similar fashion a Paladin and a Fighter, while not necessarily the class that offers the highest possible DPS in Dungeons and Dragons are both the largest target because they look the most menacing. Though smart NPC's in D&D will always target the Cleric or the Wizard, it is up to the Fighter and the Paladin to prevent that from happening. The job of the Escort however, is to deal as much damage in as short a time as possible, much like how a Wizard in D&D is capable of summoning the fires of hell down on its enemy.
Yes, even in D&D a properly built wizard can effectively take down the strongest of monsters single handedly, but it is not designed to do so right out of the gate. Much in the same way a properly built Escort can arguably tank a Tactical Cube, but not without risking serious damage to itself unless it has support from other ships. A Cruiser on the other hand can in theory take on the damage from a Tactical Cube and keep on trucking. It may not be able to singlehandedly destroy the Tactical Cube, but it would be able to provide decent covering fire.
This is similar if not identical to what happens in the actual Star Trek TV Series and respective movies. It was likely a Tactical Cube or something similar that attacked Earth in Star Trek First Contact. And it took 3-4 Escorts and the Enterprise-E to stop that ship cold. Even in The Next Generation it took ingenuity on the part of the crew to actually stand a chance against Borg vessels.
The Voyager for example required technology far in advance of its own, or borrowed from the Undine in order to actually stand a fighting chance against the Borg Armada. And that's saying something since at the time it entered the Delta Quadrant the Voyager was the peak of technology that Starfleet had to offer! The Enterprise-E itself was designed specifically to be able to battle the Borg (as was the Defiant, which is sad since it suffered the greatest damage in that battle).
Also, it is worth noting that the Enterprise-D's armament is nearly identical to that which is found on Cruisers in Star Trek Online. It has two beam arrays one each on the top and bottom of the Saucer Section, one beam array on the bottom of the Stardrive section, and what appears to be 2 beam arrays, one on each of the Pylons. Additionally it has 2 Forward facing Torpedo Tubes, and 1 Aft facing Torpedo Tube. I may be off by one beam array which if I am it is located on the rear bottom of the stardrive section (the previously mentioned one is on the forward bottom of the stardrive section). All told that is between 8 and 9 dedicated artillery devices. And this is all on a ship not designed primarily as a war ship.
The Enterprise-E probably has more Beam Arrays and Torpedo Tubes, but as I haven't had the opportunity to look at a model of the Enterprise-E yet I can't say for certain. Even if it doesn't the Enterprise-E does happen to have far superior weapons than the Enterprise-D had. That said, we are still talking about absolutely massive ships with horrible turn rates. Even in the movies they banked like Boeing 747's, not like Jet Fighters. For Jet Fighter turn rates we are going to be looking at either shuttlecraft or escorts, not cruisers.
So really comparing the various Enterprise's to the Defiant is an effort in futility.
I don't really disagree with you there. My question is, how exactly does absorbing damage protect the smaller vessels?
It doesn't.
If your Paladin analogy held true, then the Cruiser's primary means of defending anything would be to put itself between the attacker and the attacker's target and force the attacker to engage it instead.
But that's not the way it works even in PvE. Mind you, I'm not sure that shielding allied targets is the right paradigm. But I really dislike the fact that Cruisers are pigeonholed into the healboat role with these magical shield and hull healing abilities that are NOT really canon. Self-healing, yes. Ally-healing, no.
There should be a solid reason supported by game mechanics why a cruiser should be a primary target and why survivability should matter, and there isn't one except for the fact that they turn like beached whales and as such they're easy targets. They are not much of a threat to any high-DPS unit following a hit-and-run strategy, and the high end Escorts simply don't fit the "glass cannon" description too well.
I really wish that the game made some attempt at following something reasonably close to a naval and air tactics paradigm. Carriers would fill their current role for long-range striking power. Cruisers would effectively be the heavy offense ships (Battleships, Bombers) that pound fortified units and primarily protect the carriers. Science Vessels would be used for electronic warfare, recon, and defense.
And Escorts?
I'm going to take some heat for this, but in my opinion a lone Escort should not be able to take out a Cruiser by itself unless it gets really lucky (the Defiant being a notable exception). A so-called Alpha strike might potentially cripple a Cruiser, but not destroy it unless it's already weakened. Tactically, they should fill about the same role that an assault copter, fighter jet, or a stealth bomber fills in modern military forces. Totally hit-and-run and somewhat more expendable than a heavier unit. True glass cannons whose primary defense is mobility and that function better in groups than alone.
Cruiser damage should be heavy but slow... Escorts should still be the kings of DPS, but because they're firing faster and hitting more often, not because they're doing more raw damage.
But that's not the game we have and I don't think we'll ever see more than a shadow of that.
I do think that one possible idea that would give Cruisers a better tactical reason to exist would be more effective long-range striking ability. That would act to give them an initial advantage at ranges where low turn rate is not a problem. That advantage then fades when the range closes and the combat turns into a dogfight, where the Escorts and DHC's shine and the Cruiser's primary defense is survivability, point defenses, and other Escorts.
This would also open up a role for a Recon/SciScort ship that can act as an advance scout seeking out targets on behalf of the long-range attackers and sniffing out cloaked/masked ships trying to sneak into close range.
Another idea is to buff up Beam Arrays in some fashion, so that a cruiser isn't effectively penalized for equipping them. Lots of notions have been floated about how to do that in a way that's fair to all of the classes, and I won't go into any of those in this post.
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I fully agree with this!
100% agreed
Why would the Defiant be the only exception? As the first Escort class for the feds would it not be the base platform from which future escorts would be measured?
I agree on beam arrays, and have stated ideas both mine and others on how they may be buffed without further unbalancing the game.
As to glass cannons, they are if you remove thier defenses, mainly thier movement, and the fault with STO right now is that its more difficult to do so - certainly the NPCs are very bad at doing so.
We would have tougher better damage dealing cruiser play if some of the balanced ideas given where implemented without ruining Escorts in process. Some are very good ideas in my opinion though I do wonder if it would be accepted by the playerbase whom sees cruisers and escorts from the eyes of fandom?
R.I.P
All kidding aside as far as the shows go from my recollection aside from the 'hero' ship of the day the others were considered more of less of equal capabilities with the tide turner being said hero ship or ingenuity by one of them.
But really most perspectives on capabilities fall from what the 'hero' ships are seen to do. And just like Superman they are as powerful, fast, nimble, and advanced as the plot requires. Nothing more nothing less. And on that note it is off topic but I do have to plug B5 as being one of the few Sci Fi shows where even the most advanced hero ship, the White Stars, did tend to explode an awful lot when attacked by heavy hitters.
While I love me a B5 reference, it's not the best analogy. The White Star was a ship built with technology that was literally centuries ahead of it's time when compared to every comparable space force. This was the reason it was able to take on ships many times it's size, which in the B5 'verse was not something that was normally strategically possible without extensive numerical superiority.
It's also the reason why as the other races continued to advance, White Stars started taking more and more casualties, and necessitated the development of the Excalibur-class Destroyers (which effectively wiped the floor with just about anything it went toe to toe with).
They still got toasted by Earth Alliance Destroyers in the war even with that amazing tech and speed was my point is all. Even the 'hero' ship of b5 got spanked quite often. Not to mention how they fared against the Shadow/Vorlon ships, Omega Destroyers, or that other wierd race I can't remember that I steal my 'skin dancing' term from on Cubes.
White Stars had the firepower and the speed but still went pop from the equivalent of a single Beam Overload hit from a cruiser.
Yeah, something I've had in mind for a long time, even stated a few months back in a thread. However the only problem here is that even if cruisers become effective artillery craft, distance closing is too easy. I know for a fact that my chel'gret warship can close 10k in about 8 seconds, and my defiant even faster. And then cruisers would get mauled again, due to them being less effective from closer up (as your idea states).
Slightly problematic methinks, if the idea was to make cruisers stronger.
And here I was thinking I was the only one who loved the White Star design and was a B5 fan XD.
I'm not sure when fed cruisers were "canonically classified" as battleships. I think you meant to say "Dreadnought" which has some basis in canon. Lucky for you, such a ship already exists, the Galaxy-X is ready and waiting for you. Its a huge brick with some really powerful weapons, and can even mount DHCs.
To be fair, other cruisers often went pop from the equivalent of a single BO from other cruisers.
I hear you, but they're also about the only ships in B5 that could even be considered "Escorts" as the tech for small, maneuverable gunships carrying firepower to rival battleships simply didn't exist in that 'verse prior to the development of the White Star. And while I may be mistaken, White Stars took very minimal casualties going up against stock Omegas (I want to say it was friendly Auroras and Thunderbolts that were getting hammered in those fights), it wasn't until Clark fielded his hybrid Shadow-tech vessels that the hurt really got dropped on the White Star fleet (and consequently yielded one of my favorite pissed off Russian chick lines ever).
And the species you're trying to remember is Drakh.
Some of the Unaligned Races used escort like vessels if I'm not mistaken, like the purple/green dudes if I recall correctly. But yes many of the explosions against earth destroyers were fighters but there were quite a few White Stars that got popped too. Man I loved those fights and one liners, especially the Dalen(sp) line when she showed up at B5 while it was under attack.
From what I recall the only fights we saw between stock Omegas and White Stars were the initial strike against Proxima 3 (I believe one White Star went down there), the opening of the episode where Ivonova learns about the Omega-X (shadow hybrid) Destroyer group (a few got winged but no losses) and the strike against the Loyalist fleet over Mars (again, I believe a few sustained damage but only one or two White Star losses since the majority of the Loyalist were disabled by the weaponized telepaths, the bulk of the losses later in the EP came against Earth's planetary defense satellites).
You're thinking of the Drazi's Sunhawks, which (and I could be completely off base here) were their primary warships because they lacked the industrial capacity to actually build anything larger or more advanced.
It's Delenn, and yes, Straczynski knew how to write.
I used to work for the guy that designed it (many of the B5 ships in fact) - amazingly talented man
Ever get his thoughts on the "plucked chicken" dig?