Has anyone done the analysis for DPS to compare a transphasic torpedo boat build (with the appropriate doffs) vs. plasma burn torpedo boat build, with maybe the Harpang or Rom torp?
Essentially, here's my problem. I'm running sci captains in sci vessels and we often face off to do a bit of PvP within our little guild, since we all have both Kling and Fed characters. At the moment, one of our teammates has an Oddy that runs with almost 32k per shield facing, and add in that he's an engineering captain, I literally can't seem to touch him.
So, if I can't drop those shields (tried CPB and TB3, plus the tractor beam doff, tachyon weps with the Maco tachyon proc), I need to find a way to ignore them and directly damage that hull. Thus, I'm wondering if it makes more sense to try to transphasic him or to burn him out, or both if I use the generic kinetic damage tac consoles. Obviously, I'd have to add in a couple of copies of TBR, but is there anything else I can do to get past those rediculous shields?
The only other alternative is to try to drain him to death, I suppose?
I'm going to get the Fleet Recon Sci ship for my joined trill sci captain, and I put together a couple of builds based on what I've been reading here. I'm curious what feedback anyone would have on these.
I've got the regular recon now, and the fleet recon just looks like it would be fun. I'm more partial to the second build because of the VM, but I think they are both pretty decent. I'd welcome any suggestions as well.
The main thing I'd like to do with this ship is area control type stuff, locking down ships etc.
Has anyone done the analysis for DPS to compare a transphasic torpedo boat build (with the appropriate doffs) vs. plasma burn torpedo boat build, with maybe the Harpang or Rom torp?
Essentially, here's my problem. I'm running sci captains in sci vessels and we often face off to do a bit of PvP within our little guild, since we all have both Kling and Fed characters. At the moment, one of our teammates has an Oddy that runs with almost 32k per shield facing, and add in that he's an engineering captain, I literally can't seem to touch him.
So, if I can't drop those shields (tried CPB and TB3, plus the tractor beam doff, tachyon weps with the Maco tachyon proc), I need to find a way to ignore them and directly damage that hull. Thus, I'm wondering if it makes more sense to try to transphasic him or to burn him out, or both if I use the generic kinetic damage tac consoles. Obviously, I'd have to add in a couple of copies of TBR, but is there anything else I can do to get past those rediculous shields?
The only other alternative is to try to drain him to death, I suppose?
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.
i recommend including EWP in any plasma projectile builds. the plasma energy tac consoles buff ewp, and the dot of projectile proc damage. reportedly more so then plasma kinetic consoles do actually. the best plasma boats are cruisers in my opinion, because they can slot EWP3. for escorts and sci ships, trasnphasics are proboly best.
I'm going to get the Fleet Recon Sci ship for my joined trill sci captain, and I put together a couple of builds based on what I've been reading here. I'm curious what feedback anyone would have on these.
I've got the regular recon now, and the fleet recon just looks like it would be fun. I'm more partial to the second build because of the VM, but I think they are both pretty decent. I'd welcome any suggestions as well.
The main thing I'd like to do with this ship is area control type stuff, locking down ships etc.
im not a sci ship expert, but it looks like you intended to use torps, with the THY, but you didnt spec into torp damage at all. if your going to use VM, your proboly best off maxing decompilers too.
also consider this, the vesta can mimic the station setup of the intrepid, recon, nebula and deep space sci ship, and can have the same console set up as all 3 of them. the best bang for your buck vs geting the fleet version of any of those ships, is to get the vesta, that can be them and more. and also has a hanger, and can mount DHCs. its kinda to bad that the vesta made all those sci ships so irreverent. it could also have the LTC used for eng or tactical, so even more interesting possibilities there.
the only ships the vesta doesn't make redundant are the nova, ball ship and wells. those can all still have unique station setups it cant mimc
im not a sci ship expert, but it looks like you intended to use torps, with the THY, but you didnt spec into torp damage at all. if your going to use VM, your proboly best off maxing decompilers too.
also consider this, the vesta can mimic the station setup of the intrepid, recon, nebula and deep space sci ship, and can have the same console set up as all 3 of them. the best bang for your buck vs geting the fleet version of any of those ships, is to get the vesta, that can be them and more. and also has a hanger, and can mount DHCs. its kinda to bad that the vesta made all those sci ships so irreverent. it could also have the LTC used for eng or tactical, so even more interesting possibilities there.
the only ships the vesta doesn't make redundant are the nova, ball ship and wells. those can all still have unique station setups it cant mimc
I was thinking about that actually... The Vesta seems like it could do this pretty easy as well.
Depending on how I was going to lay out the weapons I would have used torps on the 1st build, and all beams / turrets on the second one.
I was thinking about that actually... The Vesta seems like it could do this pretty easy as well.
Depending on how I was going to lay out the weapons I would have used torps on the 1st build, and all beams / turrets on the second one.
What DDIS said. For sic ships go Vesta or go home. Wells/korath is nice, if you consider them to be a realistic alternative. The orb weaver offers a healing heavy setup that i don't think the vesta can field. But the vesta's cannons, and pets should make up for it.
Until the next sci ship 3pc pack is release, no reason to bother with any other sci ships anymore.
ah yes, the orb is another non redundant sci ship, and a good one still i think. its turn is a bit low, so most have moved from it to a wells, a shame
Just don't make the mistake of selling the Fleet Science Ships short, they're pretty much top-to-bottom excellent... except maybe the Fleet DSSV.
The Vesta cannot mimic every possible Nebula layout, nor the Golfball (Fleet Research Science Vessel) or Nova (Fleet Science Vessel). That said, it and the Wells are the level-best choices... just not so far ahead of the other Fleet Sci ships you should feel obligated to buy them.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Just don't make the mistake of selling the Fleet Science Ships short, they're pretty much top-to-bottom excellent... except maybe the Fleet DSSV.
The Vesta cannot mimic every possible Nebula layout, nor the Golfball (Fleet Research Science Vessel) or Nova (Fleet Science Vessel). That said, it and the Wells are the level-best choices... just not so far ahead of the other Fleet Sci ships you should feel obligated to buy them.
the fleet DSSV strangely has the 5 sci consoles. would have made more sense and been consistent with the fleet gal and fleet defiant for the intrepid to have the 5 sci consoles. oh well, hardly maters with vesta existing.
i did mention in another post that the nova and golf ball still had a niche, and technically if you slotted a tac in the universal on the neb, that would be unique still.
so the sci ships in game that currently mater are
vesta
nova
hospital golfball
nebula, though vesta can basically do what it can do
orb
wells
DSSV, recon, intrepid have no reason to exist with vesta around. though i suppose the recon has 1 better turn then the vesta, but no dhcs or pet hanger.
the fleet DSSV strangely has the 5 sci consoles. would have made more sense and been consistent with the fleet gal and fleet defiant for the intrepid to have the 5 sci consoles. oh well, hardly maters with vesta existing.
i did mention in another post that the nova and golf ball still had a niche, and technically if you slotted a tac in the universal on the neb, that would be unique still.
so the sci ships in game that currently mater are
vesta
nova
hospital golfball
nebula, though vesta can basically do what it can do
orb
wells
DSSV, recon, intrepid have no reason to exist with vesta around. though i suppose the recon has 1 better turn then the vesta, but no dhcs or pet hanger.
That's it in a nutshell. The Intrepid and Rec Sci are still good, just not better than the Vesta, though I'd contend the Vesta's not too much better if Danubes were out of the picture (in all seriousness, who's idea was it to make CC powers on pets automatic and refreshed by launching new pets). All the Fleet Sci ships are moderately to (in the Nebbie's case) significantly tougher than the Vesta. Only the Nebbie and DSSV have worse turn rates than the Vesta. The F-Intrepid ties it, the F-Rec Sci and F-Golfball exceed it by 1, and the F-Nova, well, it's tied with the Wells at 15.
The main thrust of my point is that a person should not feel obligated to fly just the Vesta or Wells, they're top-dogs, but not by so much that you're strictly hurting yourself and your teammates by flying one of the other Fleet Sci ships.
Except, maybe, the Fleet DSSV. That ship is sadness-inducing. It comes off as a kinda of well-rounded Sci ship that doesn't really do anything that the other ones don't just out-sci it at (other than maybe having the biggest potential shield capacity in STO*).
*If you're spamming your Sci Ship's Sci Console slots with Field Gens, yes, you are doing it wrong.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Advanced strategies and tactics- ships and captain types
the thread has a lot of builds now, but its lacking on strategies for success. i think the boot camp touches on that, but im not involved and cant be sure. i'll touch on some basic truths about somethings from my point of view, what works and what you shouldn't bother with an all that.
eng/cruiser- the best use of an eng, and in a pug the best healer.
sci/cruiser- this is what you wont in an organized match for a healer. the extra set of sci debuffs with the cruiser heals can make a huge difference. the eng doesn't bring a whole lot to the team compared to a sci in that situation, partly why many consider the eng very underpowered.
tac/cruiser- this is a perfect fit on kdf cruisers, these can be escort replacements, that need much less healer attention. fed cruiser though outside of puging simply cant effect a target if there is any cross healing going on. its possible to get strong damage out of these, but its gradual damage, and gradual damage might as well be no damage.
eng/escort- worthless, aside from blowing through pve easier with your eng, this is a terrible combo. your weapons without tac buffs wont have the spike needed to effectively injure, and nadieon and EPS transfer are made irrelevant next to simple weapons power overcaping.
sci/escort- deals same damage as an eng, BUT you have the most powerful debuffs in the game. use an escort with a LTC sci and you can be especially dangerous, throwing VM, scan and nuk on someone can make them easy pickings. in a team environment you can never have to many of those 3 things when focusing on a target.
tac/escort- the obvious choice. best damage, and with all the passive heals you can run anymore, its not even that squishy. speed tanking with maxed out engine power and the rest in shields seems tankier then any other sort of tanking that involves out healing incoming damage.
eng/sci- no real synergy at all, just tankier. proboly most harmless combination possible
tac/sci- all the damage dealing sci skills deal ether a form of energy or kinetic damage, meaning tac captain tac buffs effect them. abilities like TBR, FBP, PSW, and an ISO charge console with as many particle jen consoles as possible are recommended. if your sci ship has a LTC eng, EWP1 is recommended too. its buffed by those tac buffs and particle gens as well. if you have a LTC tac, APO for sure, makes using TBR much easier and buffs damage a bit. transphasic torps for additional hull damaging is recommended, all these skill mainly damage hull too. like a tac cruiser, these are less effective as well in orginized teams, the cross healing can negate your effect and your presents means 1 less sci around for issuing debuffs
sci/sci- imagine your target is a ball, it is your job to juggle that ball so it is completely unable to respond. the sci/sci is not for killing primarily, it is for makeing a target so befudled that it is easy for others to kill. it does not mater that you deal next to no damage, if you make someone more killable you are invaluable.
Advanced strategies and tactics- effective use of key binding and tray setup
this is the secret behind everyone you see being impossibly good. sure, many will say they don't use any macros and do great, but they could do much better sans clicking. the ui lag alone makes it almost a necessity, not just an effectiveness boosting measure.
clicking to activate anything you NEED mid urgent situation is putting you at a huge disadvantage compared to someone that has panic macros that will execute exactly what they need when they need it. this goes for chaining a bunch of tac buffs, the windows of opportunity were a target cant have APO or TT are golden, if you fumble clicking to activate abilities you likely wont be able to mount an effective attack at the right time. if you have the luxury of a cloak, this is a bit less of an issue, but whenever you attack wile uncloaked, mid battle, macros for alpha creating are invaluable.
you cant macro everything, well i suppose you could but you might find yourself in the same situation your in trying to click activate everything. effectively set up treys are just as important, even though i have most abilities you cycle often set up in a macro, i always include them in the main 3 viable treys so i can keep an eye on their cooldowns. several abilities like RSP, evasive, the tac/eng/sci fleet, and most other captain powers you don't want part of any more common macro, those are for use exactly when you need them. group your 3 visible trays in a way that is intuitive to you, so not a split second is wasted searching for abilities to click
macros and controls i recommend
the go to bind for most is to bind all sorts of things to spacebar, this is actually a terrible idea and you need to wean yourself off this immediately. every time you hit a macro it will activate 2 things at once, but anything you have bound to the fire key will take priority and cause more then a second worth delay befor firing, that can take away a bunch of damage from an alpha with a bunch of tac buffs running.
i re did all my binds recently, and its improved my effectiveness 50%, on top of the 50% improvement my old binds gave me over useing no binds. i recomend a mouse with between 4 and 6 extra buttons to use for macros, i use a logitec G700 myself, and all my ability macros are on it. hitting the macro keys will only activate 1 or 2 at once, so you must hit these keys over and over as fast as you can, not just once.
non macros
fire all energy
fire all toprs
fire all mines (if you use mines)
these you just setup in the bind menu in game, no macros needed with these.
macros
execute full tray 4 (basic defense)- assuming you have treys 1 through 3 visible in your hud at all times, place skills you want cycling at all times in tray 4, and distribute all shields. skills like EPtX, AtB and put fleet support there too, this is one you click contently, so as soon as your hull drops that low it will call in the npc
execute full tray 5 (basic offense)- place in tray 5 skills like the attack patterns, CRF, BO, THY and APA. when you see a window of opportunity, you want this bind activating all those abilities as fast as humanly possible. maybe even skills like TB or VM as well.
execute full tray 6 (oh **** button)- place in tray 6 TT, and FBP if you have it. it might be tempting to stick this in trey 5, but you really want these separate so it can be activated at a moments notice, ONLY when you need it. you never want someone watching you use TT for no reason, in 10 seconds they will begin an alpha on you. nothing is more life and death then TT activated exactly when you need it. i also like to put BFI and the subspace modual here,
execute full tray 7 (rapid healing)- place heals like TSS, AtS, HE, and ET or ST, in that order. this can be helpful for saveing a team mate, throwing everything you can on them, or the same for yourself. ET last is so your panic healing doesnt trump your TT when you would have needed it more. leave something like RSP off here. frantically clicking on heals to try to save you or yourself is frustrating and ineffective, this keybind on the other hand is awesome at timely delivering heals
execute full tray 8 (special)- every build should have something here, a defensive or offensive skill. things like RSP, EWP, GW, VM, consoles skills, anything like that you want activated at a moments notice, but dont fit with the cycleing of the other binds.
handy extras
target calling bind- say in team chat something along the lines of target '$Target', this will send a team message saying target your current target, im sure you have seen this pop up in pvp before. my exact line is 'pew directly at ->$Target<-'
end of match message- if you hate switching to zone chat, and typeing gg, or want something more universal for all those ocations were it was NOT a gg, you can bind a simple message of say in zone chat 'thanks for the match' or something. i use such a bind to spam this thread when i see several people that could maybe use some pvp help.
/softwarecursor 0- hate when your mouse gets that stupid shadow pointer that follows it around? this command will fix that. i have it set to say in local chat, and then i select it and hitctrlC and ctrlV it into the chat box and hit enter. having it display doesn't activate it, but it brings up the right command, like i could remember it off the top of my head.
there you have it, thats basically all my hax, if you have trouble killing me, its because i have all this running at the touch of multiple buttons. seems like it might be a lot of work to set up in some text file right? WRONG! to be even more of a lazy macro abuser, i made all these binds with a key bind generating graphical user interface. give it a try here, its foolproof
@dontdrunkimshoot:
Althrough i rarely do any PvP, just i want to say thank you for this exceedingly helpful thread!
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Just some Questions relating your "2 AtB galaxy R" build.
What damage type do you use or recommend?
I am torn between Plasma (romulan maybe later) and (polarized) Disruptor energy type.
Next week i am finally going to be able to get my hands on the romulan Threat-Scaling Science Consoles which give additional Plasma damage. Do Plasma energy tactical consoles boost the additional damage from those consoles?
Or maybe something completely different?
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
IMO D'Kora is begging for an A2B build, in fact I was single mindedly grinding EC to buy one, them the Jem HEC hit and I got that instead, and ran the build I'd intended for the D'Kora with minor modifications.
I don't like it, sorry. The D'Kora can run DHCs, it's criminal to run singles. Exocomp needs to be stacked if possible (fed maintenance engineers fluxuate but can be as cheap as a couple million EC) or paired with a high level quartermaster (arm and a leg for just a blue). EPTSx2 instead of another EPTx with damage control engineers is a weak choice. Get the Lobi console out of the Tac console slot. Get some embassy hull and shield consoles for sure and maybe run another 2 piece, although borg 2 piece is a safe choice.
But back to the beginning for a D'Kora: A2B, all day, every day.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
lol I've done more damage with these weapons than most ships with dhcs equipped.
Yes. The doffs could be changed. Problem is I don't have certain things like damage control engineers and a few others. But eventually I'll modify the doffs and tweek them.
And yes, I know about the science consoles at the embassy, obviously . I'll be adding an emitter from there when our base finishes its upgrade.
And no, it wouldn't be logical to remove the combat module, because I'm not a tactical captain. I don't have things like Attack Pattern Alpha for extra damage.
I DO use alterations during combat, like inserting the tachyon mine instead of the cutting beam. And so on and so forth.
I didn't mean remove it, just put it in an eng or sci console slot. But that's just me. And you did post it for Tac/Sci. And you can do more damage, sure, but you hang out here enough to know that the damage needs to be abrupt.
It's not a terrible build, but I see some holes, IMO. No APO or PH, so no hold breaking. And I think you're missing a Cmdr Eng ability in the list.
You could wreck **** with a Sci in a D'Kora, and here's how I'd do it. Sub-Nuc being the great equalizer, it's the equivalent of having your buddy get on his hands and knees behind somebody, so as a non-Tac it's just up to you to figure out how to shove as hard as you can.
2 purple Techs, 1-3 maint eng, Marion, Battery cd quartermaster
2 piece MACO + 2 purple Tech doffs is enough for cd reduction.
Marion is going to give you 8 seconds when you trigger DEM of freight train DHC. maint eng battery doffs will give you a damage boost to make up for lack of APA, battery qm's will bring the battery back up faster. So you could ditch marion, depend on the battery to overcap, and pick whether you want another 10% or want it to come back up faster.
A great sci alpha would involve a dual battery - weapons and aux, with 3 maint engineers. Dual Batt, Super Scan, SNB, APO, CRF, high weapon power, HYT, if you're really daring slot a TB for a hold too. I don't have a sci at tier 5 rep but you should also be able to buff Sensor Scan further with the Rom T5 clickie. IDK for sure. 3 piece MACO beam at the end too.
Those doffs are pricey, no question, so it's probably pie in the sky for most people, and dual batts are either lobi or a whole lot of EC for 20 sec of a buff.
Also I'd say this is a pug build; I'm not counting on anybody to follow my keybind tell that I'm putting a subnuc downrange, and I'm giving up a lot to bring my own damage. This is a build I've only put on paper since my sci toons have no Rom rep and only conversion box Omega. By the time I get around to them it will probably be out of date.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
the main thing to remember is your weapons have to have AT LEAST 10% accuracy (20% would be better) and CrtD of +20 and at least 4% CrtH (critical chance).
If your weapons have any amount of the latter two, but no accuracy, they are useless. Because what's the point of being able to do critical damage if you can't hit your target?
I hate to be annoying (at least to you guys ), but i wanted to know what energy weapon type dontdrunkimshoot had in mind for his "2 AtB galaxy R" build.
Since there are "only" 4 cannons fore and 4 turrets aft, and so few tac consoles i want to have as many useful effects as possible.
I have been thinking about plasma, but since it cannot utilize the "Romulan Singularity Harness" to get the additional 7.6% plasma Damage, and i am not sure if plasma weapons get the additional bonus from romulan "Threat-Scaling Science Consoles", because i have read that they only deliver 2.5% chance for a Plasma DoT effect when using non-Plasma energy weapons. Still the Plasma proc is tempting IMO.
The only thing i would do different would be to use 2 parts of the "Omega Adapted Borg Technology Set" which would be "Cutting beam" in the rear + the Borg console. To get "Omega Weapon Amplifier" effect once in a while.
Since the Galaxy -R isn't capable of using DC or DHC it will naturally not do as much as much damage as comparable Klingon ship (or ANY other ship) by far. So what would be the logical choice for such an underpowered ship?
Is there a way i momentarily don't see to utilize its Engineering + Science Consoles to tease out some more offensive power?
It's a shame one has to ask such questions in connection with a Galaxy Class.:(
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
The best D'kora build I could design for my engineer is the following one.
It uses no tactical team, and expensive doffs doubling only ensign abilities, but: sci team. This because with sci team, no aux power is needed. So in that way also the drain/recover issue with AtoB builds is avoided. My experience is that an engineer does not need TT if ST is available every 15 seconds.
To do some descent damage as an engineer, I use tet-glider (engineer has to use everything at his disposal...) combined with BO, HY and CFR.
I guess this build can also be used by tac's and sci's.
I hate to be annoying (at least to you guys ), but i wanted to know what energy weapon type dontdrunkimshoot had in mind for his "2 AtB galaxy R" build.
Since there are "only" 4 cannons fore and 4 turrets aft, and so few tac consoles i want to have as many useful effects as possible.
I have been thinking about plasma, but since it cannot utilize the "Romulan Singularity Harness" to get the additional 7.6% plasma Damage, and i am not sure if plasma weapons get the additional bonus from romulan "Threat-Scaling Science Consoles", because i have read that they only deliver 2.5% chance for a Plasma DoT effect when using non-Plasma energy weapons. Still the Plasma proc is tempting IMO.
The only thing i would do different would be to use 2 parts of the "Omega Adapted Borg Technology Set" which would be "Cutting beam" in the rear + the Borg console. To get "Omega Weapon Amplifier" effect once in a while.
Since the Galaxy -R isn't capable of using DC or DHC it will naturally not do as much as much damage as comparable Klingon ship (or ANY other ship) by far. So what would be the logical choice for such an underpowered ship?
Is there a way i momentarily don't see to utilize its Engineering + Science Consoles to tease out some more offensive power?
It's a shame one has to ask such questions in connection with a Galaxy Class.:(
well, phasers are an old favorite, and i just like using them on fed ships for RPer like reasons. to get the most out of DEM though, disruptor. to get the most out of tet glider, tetyron. ether hybrid would work well too. this ship isn't likely to be hitting hull directly through a down facing, so the cutting beam is of little use. that goes for anything not using DHCs really.
yes, mixed equipment is always a good idea. Depending on your class, and whether or not you want to tank with the ship, use either (if science) Omega shield, borg engine and, deflector. If you are an engineer, use M.A.C.O. shield and two borg equipment. Or, M.A.C.O shield and deflector and borg engine. (Personally on the lower class galaxy, as with my Intrepid i use full Aegis set, nut i digress...).
Tell you what, send me a mail to @apocalypse2001, and let me know the following: what class you are, at what level your reputation is with Romulan and Omega, and what level your embassy is at for Science, and I'll create a viable build for you.
Oh that's very nice, but you don't have to do that, i know that's a lot of work.
I'm just a crazy guy trying to outgun some Escorts with his Galaxy Class.
well, phasers are an old favorite, and i just like using them on fed ships for RPer like reasons. to get the most out of DEM though, disruptor. to get the most out of tet glider, tetyron. ether hybrid would work well too. this ship isn't likely to be hitting hull directly through a down facing, so the cutting beam is of little use. that goes for anything not using DHCs really.
True, using the Cutting Beam on that ship won't be any good.
And no "Omega Weapon Amplifier", i think i can live with that, since most of the time weapon power is at 100 - 125 and more (i think).
Since i won't be able to smash enemies shields anyway i think i switch to Disruptor cannons+turrets. Combined with Romulan Mk X Plasma Infused Consoles i hope they will do a good amount of bleedthrough damage.
Thanks guys
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Steamrunner is one of the few escorts that has base hull regen higher than others (it's same like sci ships 3% base instead of the regular 2,5%), and my tac captain is human, so what the hell, I thought why not try passive heal escort, especially when steammy lacks science stations. So I ported my ultra hull regen cruiser build to it, and well, it's really fun and tough like hell.
Obviously, I'm evil TRIBBLE, so I'm using subsystem engines III to pin the enemy down. Otherwise is probably pretty standard A2B build.
----
2x DHC, 1x Beam, 1x torpedo
2x turret, 1x mines
TT1,DPB1,CRF2,APO1
BO1,THY2,TSE3
EPTA1,A2B1
EPTS1,A2B1
HE1
1x turn console, 1x SIF console, 1x neutrinum console, 1x Phaser Point Defence console (or anything really)
2x Shield regen console
4x energy type console (phaser)
All borg set (will replace shields with elite fleet regen ones)
2x maintanance doffs (those that proc +SIF/Emmiters)
3x technician
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
ive been thinking about a 2 AtB steam runner too, for the lulz. might work alright in a pugmade with good healer coverage. it would be very versatile, have alpha strike and aoe capabilities at the same time, no need to swap boffs mid battle. would be a terror to a carrier team
the main thing to remember is your weapons have to have AT LEAST 10% accuracy (20% would be better) and CrtD of +20 and at least 4% CrtH (critical chance).
If your weapons have any amount of the latter two, but no accuracy, they are useless. Because what's the point of being able to do critical damage if you can't hit your target?
So Advanced Fleet Weapons are out of question, or does their very high additional (dmg)x3 serve as a compensation?
Especially when shooting a longer time at a specific target does (acc)+(dmg)x3 more damage than (acc)x3 (plus the resulting criticals) for example?
I'm sorry to annoy you guys but i would hate to waste a huge amout of dilithium or EC, since i don't have much of both. (well who does? lol)
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
So Advanced Fleet Weapons are out of question, or does their very high additional (dmg)x3 serve as a compensation?
Especially when shooting a longer time at a specific target does (acc)+(dmg)x3 more damage than (acc)x3 (plus the resulting criticals) for example?
I'm sorry to annoy you guys but i would hate to waste a huge amout of dilithium or EC, since i don't have much of both. (well who does? lol)
i'd get ether acc3 or crtH3 singles, they are extreamly cheap weapons on the exchange
i'd get ether acc3 or crtH3 singles, they are extreamly cheap weapons on the exchange
Wow that was fast.
I was hoping for an answer like that, those Fleet weapons are pretty expensive.
Many thanks.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Comments
Essentially, here's my problem. I'm running sci captains in sci vessels and we often face off to do a bit of PvP within our little guild, since we all have both Kling and Fed characters. At the moment, one of our teammates has an Oddy that runs with almost 32k per shield facing, and add in that he's an engineering captain, I literally can't seem to touch him.
So, if I can't drop those shields (tried CPB and TB3, plus the tractor beam doff, tachyon weps with the Maco tachyon proc), I need to find a way to ignore them and directly damage that hull. Thus, I'm wondering if it makes more sense to try to transphasic him or to burn him out, or both if I use the generic kinetic damage tac consoles. Obviously, I'd have to add in a couple of copies of TBR, but is there anything else I can do to get past those rediculous shields?
The only other alternative is to try to drain him to death, I suppose?
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.
I'm going to get the Fleet Recon Sci ship for my joined trill sci captain, and I put together a couple of builds based on what I've been reading here. I'm curious what feedback anyone would have on these.
Build 1
Build 2
I've got the regular recon now, and the fleet recon just looks like it would be fun. I'm more partial to the second build because of the VM, but I think they are both pretty decent. I'd welcome any suggestions as well.
The main thing I'd like to do with this ship is area control type stuff, locking down ships etc.
that would still work well. the spirals would work too, i'd proboly use APO1 and BO2, or APD1 for beams
i recommend including EWP in any plasma projectile builds. the plasma energy tac consoles buff ewp, and the dot of projectile proc damage. reportedly more so then plasma kinetic consoles do actually. the best plasma boats are cruisers in my opinion, because they can slot EWP3. for escorts and sci ships, trasnphasics are proboly best.
im not a sci ship expert, but it looks like you intended to use torps, with the THY, but you didnt spec into torp damage at all. if your going to use VM, your proboly best off maxing decompilers too.
also consider this, the vesta can mimic the station setup of the intrepid, recon, nebula and deep space sci ship, and can have the same console set up as all 3 of them. the best bang for your buck vs geting the fleet version of any of those ships, is to get the vesta, that can be them and more. and also has a hanger, and can mount DHCs. its kinda to bad that the vesta made all those sci ships so irreverent. it could also have the LTC used for eng or tactical, so even more interesting possibilities there.
the only ships the vesta doesn't make redundant are the nova, ball ship and wells. those can all still have unique station setups it cant mimc
I was thinking about that actually... The Vesta seems like it could do this pretty easy as well.
Depending on how I was going to lay out the weapons I would have used torps on the 1st build, and all beams / turrets on the second one.
What DDIS said. For sic ships go Vesta or go home. Wells/korath is nice, if you consider them to be a realistic alternative. The orb weaver offers a healing heavy setup that i don't think the vesta can field. But the vesta's cannons, and pets should make up for it.
Until the next sci ship 3pc pack is release, no reason to bother with any other sci ships anymore.
/sarcasm_1 Gee, thanks systems /sarcasm_0
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Just don't make the mistake of selling the Fleet Science Ships short, they're pretty much top-to-bottom excellent... except maybe the Fleet DSSV.
The Vesta cannot mimic every possible Nebula layout, nor the Golfball (Fleet Research Science Vessel) or Nova (Fleet Science Vessel). That said, it and the Wells are the level-best choices... just not so far ahead of the other Fleet Sci ships you should feel obligated to buy them.
the fleet DSSV strangely has the 5 sci consoles. would have made more sense and been consistent with the fleet gal and fleet defiant for the intrepid to have the 5 sci consoles. oh well, hardly maters with vesta existing.
i did mention in another post that the nova and golf ball still had a niche, and technically if you slotted a tac in the universal on the neb, that would be unique still.
so the sci ships in game that currently mater are
vesta
nova
hospital golfball
nebula, though vesta can basically do what it can do
orb
wells
DSSV, recon, intrepid have no reason to exist with vesta around. though i suppose the recon has 1 better turn then the vesta, but no dhcs or pet hanger.
That's it in a nutshell. The Intrepid and Rec Sci are still good, just not better than the Vesta, though I'd contend the Vesta's not too much better if Danubes were out of the picture (in all seriousness, who's idea was it to make CC powers on pets automatic and refreshed by launching new pets). All the Fleet Sci ships are moderately to (in the Nebbie's case) significantly tougher than the Vesta. Only the Nebbie and DSSV have worse turn rates than the Vesta. The F-Intrepid ties it, the F-Rec Sci and F-Golfball exceed it by 1, and the F-Nova, well, it's tied with the Wells at 15.
The main thrust of my point is that a person should not feel obligated to fly just the Vesta or Wells, they're top-dogs, but not by so much that you're strictly hurting yourself and your teammates by flying one of the other Fleet Sci ships.
Except, maybe, the Fleet DSSV. That ship is sadness-inducing. It comes off as a kinda of well-rounded Sci ship that doesn't really do anything that the other ones don't just out-sci it at (other than maybe having the biggest potential shield capacity in STO*).
*If you're spamming your Sci Ship's Sci Console slots with Field Gens, yes, you are doing it wrong.
It's an lrsv boff layout
just thought i'd point it out...
the thread has a lot of builds now, but its lacking on strategies for success. i think the boot camp touches on that, but im not involved and cant be sure. i'll touch on some basic truths about somethings from my point of view, what works and what you shouldn't bother with an all that.
eng/cruiser- the best use of an eng, and in a pug the best healer.
sci/cruiser- this is what you wont in an organized match for a healer. the extra set of sci debuffs with the cruiser heals can make a huge difference. the eng doesn't bring a whole lot to the team compared to a sci in that situation, partly why many consider the eng very underpowered.
tac/cruiser- this is a perfect fit on kdf cruisers, these can be escort replacements, that need much less healer attention. fed cruiser though outside of puging simply cant effect a target if there is any cross healing going on. its possible to get strong damage out of these, but its gradual damage, and gradual damage might as well be no damage.
eng/escort- worthless, aside from blowing through pve easier with your eng, this is a terrible combo. your weapons without tac buffs wont have the spike needed to effectively injure, and nadieon and EPS transfer are made irrelevant next to simple weapons power overcaping.
sci/escort- deals same damage as an eng, BUT you have the most powerful debuffs in the game. use an escort with a LTC sci and you can be especially dangerous, throwing VM, scan and nuk on someone can make them easy pickings. in a team environment you can never have to many of those 3 things when focusing on a target.
tac/escort- the obvious choice. best damage, and with all the passive heals you can run anymore, its not even that squishy. speed tanking with maxed out engine power and the rest in shields seems tankier then any other sort of tanking that involves out healing incoming damage.
eng/sci- no real synergy at all, just tankier. proboly most harmless combination possible
tac/sci- all the damage dealing sci skills deal ether a form of energy or kinetic damage, meaning tac captain tac buffs effect them. abilities like TBR, FBP, PSW, and an ISO charge console with as many particle jen consoles as possible are recommended. if your sci ship has a LTC eng, EWP1 is recommended too. its buffed by those tac buffs and particle gens as well. if you have a LTC tac, APO for sure, makes using TBR much easier and buffs damage a bit. transphasic torps for additional hull damaging is recommended, all these skill mainly damage hull too. like a tac cruiser, these are less effective as well in orginized teams, the cross healing can negate your effect and your presents means 1 less sci around for issuing debuffs
sci/sci- imagine your target is a ball, it is your job to juggle that ball so it is completely unable to respond. the sci/sci is not for killing primarily, it is for makeing a target so befudled that it is easy for others to kill. it does not mater that you deal next to no damage, if you make someone more killable you are invaluable.
this is the secret behind everyone you see being impossibly good. sure, many will say they don't use any macros and do great, but they could do much better sans clicking. the ui lag alone makes it almost a necessity, not just an effectiveness boosting measure.
clicking to activate anything you NEED mid urgent situation is putting you at a huge disadvantage compared to someone that has panic macros that will execute exactly what they need when they need it. this goes for chaining a bunch of tac buffs, the windows of opportunity were a target cant have APO or TT are golden, if you fumble clicking to activate abilities you likely wont be able to mount an effective attack at the right time. if you have the luxury of a cloak, this is a bit less of an issue, but whenever you attack wile uncloaked, mid battle, macros for alpha creating are invaluable.
you cant macro everything, well i suppose you could but you might find yourself in the same situation your in trying to click activate everything. effectively set up treys are just as important, even though i have most abilities you cycle often set up in a macro, i always include them in the main 3 viable treys so i can keep an eye on their cooldowns. several abilities like RSP, evasive, the tac/eng/sci fleet, and most other captain powers you don't want part of any more common macro, those are for use exactly when you need them. group your 3 visible trays in a way that is intuitive to you, so not a split second is wasted searching for abilities to click
macros and controls i recommend
the go to bind for most is to bind all sorts of things to spacebar, this is actually a terrible idea and you need to wean yourself off this immediately. every time you hit a macro it will activate 2 things at once, but anything you have bound to the fire key will take priority and cause more then a second worth delay befor firing, that can take away a bunch of damage from an alpha with a bunch of tac buffs running.
i re did all my binds recently, and its improved my effectiveness 50%, on top of the 50% improvement my old binds gave me over useing no binds. i recomend a mouse with between 4 and 6 extra buttons to use for macros, i use a logitec G700 myself, and all my ability macros are on it. hitting the macro keys will only activate 1 or 2 at once, so you must hit these keys over and over as fast as you can, not just once.
non macros
fire all energy
fire all toprs
fire all mines (if you use mines)
these you just setup in the bind menu in game, no macros needed with these.
macros
execute full tray 4 (basic defense)- assuming you have treys 1 through 3 visible in your hud at all times, place skills you want cycling at all times in tray 4, and distribute all shields. skills like EPtX, AtB and put fleet support there too, this is one you click contently, so as soon as your hull drops that low it will call in the npc
execute full tray 5 (basic offense)- place in tray 5 skills like the attack patterns, CRF, BO, THY and APA. when you see a window of opportunity, you want this bind activating all those abilities as fast as humanly possible. maybe even skills like TB or VM as well.
execute full tray 6 (oh **** button)- place in tray 6 TT, and FBP if you have it. it might be tempting to stick this in trey 5, but you really want these separate so it can be activated at a moments notice, ONLY when you need it. you never want someone watching you use TT for no reason, in 10 seconds they will begin an alpha on you. nothing is more life and death then TT activated exactly when you need it. i also like to put BFI and the subspace modual here,
execute full tray 7 (rapid healing)- place heals like TSS, AtS, HE, and ET or ST, in that order. this can be helpful for saveing a team mate, throwing everything you can on them, or the same for yourself. ET last is so your panic healing doesnt trump your TT when you would have needed it more. leave something like RSP off here. frantically clicking on heals to try to save you or yourself is frustrating and ineffective, this keybind on the other hand is awesome at timely delivering heals
execute full tray 8 (special)- every build should have something here, a defensive or offensive skill. things like RSP, EWP, GW, VM, consoles skills, anything like that you want activated at a moments notice, but dont fit with the cycleing of the other binds.
handy extras
target calling bind- say in team chat something along the lines of target '$Target', this will send a team message saying target your current target, im sure you have seen this pop up in pvp before. my exact line is 'pew directly at ->$Target<-'
end of match message- if you hate switching to zone chat, and typeing gg, or want something more universal for all those ocations were it was NOT a gg, you can bind a simple message of say in zone chat 'thanks for the match' or something. i use such a bind to spam this thread when i see several people that could maybe use some pvp help.
/softwarecursor 0- hate when your mouse gets that stupid shadow pointer that follows it around? this command will fix that. i have it set to say in local chat, and then i select it and hitctrlC and ctrlV it into the chat box and hit enter. having it display doesn't activate it, but it brings up the right command, like i could remember it off the top of my head.
there you have it, thats basically all my hax, if you have trouble killing me, its because i have all this running at the touch of multiple buttons. seems like it might be a lot of work to set up in some text file right? WRONG! to be even more of a lazy macro abuser, i made all these binds with a key bind generating graphical user interface. give it a try here, its foolproof
http://www.ifes.us/STOKeyBind/index.html
Althrough i rarely do any PvP, just i want to say thank you for this exceedingly helpful thread!
What damage type do you use or recommend?
I am torn between Plasma (romulan maybe later) and (polarized) Disruptor energy type.
Next week i am finally going to be able to get my hands on the romulan Threat-Scaling Science Consoles which give additional Plasma damage. Do Plasma energy tactical consoles boost the additional damage from those consoles?
Or maybe something completely different?
I don't like it, sorry. The D'Kora can run DHCs, it's criminal to run singles. Exocomp needs to be stacked if possible (fed maintenance engineers fluxuate but can be as cheap as a couple million EC) or paired with a high level quartermaster (arm and a leg for just a blue). EPTSx2 instead of another EPTx with damage control engineers is a weak choice. Get the Lobi console out of the Tac console slot. Get some embassy hull and shield consoles for sure and maybe run another 2 piece, although borg 2 piece is a safe choice.
But back to the beginning for a D'Kora: A2B, all day, every day.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
It's not a terrible build, but I see some holes, IMO. No APO or PH, so no hold breaking. And I think you're missing a Cmdr Eng ability in the list.
You could wreck **** with a Sci in a D'Kora, and here's how I'd do it. Sub-Nuc being the great equalizer, it's the equivalent of having your buddy get on his hands and knees behind somebody, so as a non-Tac it's just up to you to figure out how to shove as hard as you can.
TT, CRF1, APO1
HYT1
EPTS, A2B, RSP, DEM3
EPTx, A2B
PH, HE
DHCx3, Either rep torp
Turretx3 or 4, KCB
3 piece MACO
2 purple Techs, 1-3 maint eng, Marion, Battery cd quartermaster
2 piece MACO + 2 purple Tech doffs is enough for cd reduction.
Marion is going to give you 8 seconds when you trigger DEM of freight train DHC. maint eng battery doffs will give you a damage boost to make up for lack of APA, battery qm's will bring the battery back up faster. So you could ditch marion, depend on the battery to overcap, and pick whether you want another 10% or want it to come back up faster.
A great sci alpha would involve a dual battery - weapons and aux, with 3 maint engineers. Dual Batt, Super Scan, SNB, APO, CRF, high weapon power, HYT, if you're really daring slot a TB for a hold too. I don't have a sci at tier 5 rep but you should also be able to buff Sensor Scan further with the Rom T5 clickie. IDK for sure. 3 piece MACO beam at the end too.
Those doffs are pricey, no question, so it's probably pie in the sky for most people, and dual batts are either lobi or a whole lot of EC for 20 sec of a buff.
Also I'd say this is a pug build; I'm not counting on anybody to follow my keybind tell that I'm putting a subnuc downrange, and I'm giving up a lot to bring my own damage. This is a build I've only put on paper since my sci toons have no Rom rep and only conversion box Omega. By the time I get around to them it will probably be out of date.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Passives
New Rom - Precision, Sensor Targeting Assault
Omega - Omega Weapon Training, Omega Graviton Amplifier
TS1, DPB1, APO1
TT1
EPtS1, AtB1, RSP2, EWP3
EPtA1, AtB1
TSS1, HE2
DOFFs - 2x Tech(AtB), 2x PWO(Torp), MAS(EWP)
Weapons
Fore - Rom Turret [Acc][CrtH], Omega Torp, Plasma Torp [Acc][CrtH]x2, Hargh'peng Torp
Aft - Cutting Beam, Plasma Mines [CrtH]x2[CrtD], Hyper-Plasma Torp, Plasma Torp [Acc][CrtH]x2
Deflector - KHG
Engine - Aegis
Shields - KHG
Consoles
Tac - 3x Ambiplasma
Eng - Tachyo, Borg, Rule 62, Neut
Sci - 0Point, Nadeon, BM3000
Running x/25, x/100, x/50, x/25 Power...
People always be hating on my builds... /sniffle
I hate to be annoying (at least to you guys
Since there are "only" 4 cannons fore and 4 turrets aft, and so few tac consoles i want to have as many useful effects as possible.
I have been thinking about plasma, but since it cannot utilize the "Romulan Singularity Harness" to get the additional 7.6% plasma Damage, and i am not sure if plasma weapons get the additional bonus from romulan "Threat-Scaling Science Consoles", because i have read that they only deliver 2.5% chance for a Plasma DoT effect when using non-Plasma energy weapons. Still the Plasma proc is tempting IMO.
The only thing i would do different would be to use 2 parts of the "Omega Adapted Borg Technology Set" which would be "Cutting beam" in the rear + the Borg console. To get "Omega Weapon Amplifier" effect once in a while.
Since the Galaxy -R isn't capable of using DC or DHC it will naturally not do as much as much damage as comparable Klingon ship (or ANY other ship) by far. So what would be the logical choice for such an underpowered ship?
Is there a way i momentarily don't see to utilize its Engineering + Science Consoles to tease out some more offensive power?
It's a shame one has to ask such questions in connection with a Galaxy Class.:(
It uses no tactical team, and expensive doffs doubling only ensign abilities, but: sci team. This because with sci team, no aux power is needed. So in that way also the drain/recover issue with AtoB builds is avoided. My experience is that an engineer does not need TT if ST is available every 15 seconds.
To do some descent damage as an engineer, I use tet-glider (engineer has to use everything at his disposal...) combined with BO, HY and CFR.
I guess this build can also be used by tac's and sci's.
Front: 2x DHC, 1x DBB, 1x (quant) torp
Back: 4x turret
Full omega set (also for the gravity anchor)
Eng consoles: Borg, tachyokinetic converter, neutronium alloy, D'kora battle mode 3000
Sci consoles: Flow cap, shield emitter, field gen
tac consoles: 3x tetryon pulse generator
HY1
BO1,CFR1,APO1
EptE1, AtoB1, ES2 or RSP2, DEM3 or EPW3
EptS1, AtoB1
HE1, ST2
Doffs: 3x technician, DEMdoff marion, BFI or torpedo doff
@rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
@rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
@rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
well, phasers are an old favorite, and i just like using them on fed ships for RPer like reasons. to get the most out of DEM though, disruptor. to get the most out of tet glider, tetyron. ether hybrid would work well too. this ship isn't likely to be hitting hull directly through a down facing, so the cutting beam is of little use. that goes for anything not using DHCs really.
running AtB but using damage control?
I'm just a crazy guy trying to outgun some Escorts with his Galaxy Class.
True, using the Cutting Beam on that ship won't be any good.
And no "Omega Weapon Amplifier", i think i can live with that, since most of the time weapon power is at 100 - 125 and more (i think).
Since i won't be able to smash enemies shields anyway i think i switch to Disruptor cannons+turrets. Combined with Romulan Mk X Plasma Infused Consoles i hope they will do a good amount of bleedthrough damage.
Thanks guys
good you noticed. technicians of course.
@rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
@rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
@rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
Obviously, I'm evil TRIBBLE, so I'm using subsystem engines III to pin the enemy down. Otherwise is probably pretty standard A2B build.
----
2x DHC, 1x Beam, 1x torpedo
2x turret, 1x mines
TT1,DPB1,CRF2,APO1
BO1,THY2,TSE3
EPTA1,A2B1
EPTS1,A2B1
HE1
1x turn console, 1x SIF console, 1x neutrinum console, 1x Phaser Point Defence console (or anything really)
2x Shield regen console
4x energy type console (phaser)
All borg set (will replace shields with elite fleet regen ones)
2x maintanance doffs (those that proc +SIF/Emmiters)
3x technician
TT1, APD1, CRF2, APO3
TS1, CSV1, THY3
EPtS1, AtB1
EPtA1, AtB1
HE1
So Advanced Fleet Weapons are out of question, or does their very high additional (dmg)x3 serve as a compensation?
Especially when shooting a longer time at a specific target does (acc)+(dmg)x3 more damage than (acc)x3 (plus the resulting criticals) for example?
I'm sorry to annoy you guys but i would hate to waste a huge amout of dilithium or EC, since i don't have much of both.
(well who does? lol)
i'd get ether acc3 or crtH3 singles, they are extreamly cheap weapons on the exchange
I was hoping for an answer like that, those Fleet weapons are pretty expensive.
Many thanks.