A Tricobalt mine is a Tactical weapon is it not? I can understand the grievance with Tac Captain powers buffing science power damage but a Tricobalt is a weapon and the Tac powers where designed to buff it just like energy weapons or torpedos.
right, im not arguing that tacticals shouldnt be able to boost it, im saying that they should!
right, im not arguing that tacticals shouldnt be able to boost it, im saying that they should!
My apoligies for misdirected angst.
I started reading the thread again and the whole "but I was SNB'ed and I died" (no TRIBBLE, its called tactics) or " What if I'm AMSed" (its still called tactics) "or even TB and VM'ed" (still tactics) really peeved me off into a blind reaction.
Its one thing if a power or ability is really OP and needs a change, its pathetic though when some players claim its the smart use of tactics that make a power OP.
What happens next if we nerf everything becuase of tactics? I'm not allowed to actually aim my attacks and have to hope on luck to strike my target? Are we to announce our attack in advance to help the target prepared? We are to put beeping speakers on all mines so players can know they are in the combat them without having to try to look for them?
Well doesn't it look like jabbas sail barge ?
No it was not a insult it was a funny.....the
Ship itself looks funny it may not have even been him
But the player name looked the same
Your right pvpers specs into defense
So a pver who doesn't need all that defense
Can spec into offense with the skill points the
Pver had to spend simply to survive
The pvper must also use hi accuracy weapons
That do less damage than a pver who can buy
Hi damage hi crit weapons because he doesn't
Need the extra accuracy
Both have the same skill points to spend
I have no idea what is so hard to grasp here
It's simple logic
You have no clue who I am, if you think this forum name is my in game handle.
Secondly: kid I -know- this game's mechanics better than you. It's all the more evident when you talk about "pvpers have to spec in defense they sacrifice offense!" Here's a hint Chump, we dont'. We spec to the 9s in both. Infact 9/10 times we pick some form of defense to sacrifice (particularly useless skills like, say, Starship Sensors, Subsystem repair, anything more than 3 ranks in threat control) to get our raw offense through the roof.
Your spec is not some magical beast that some how violates the skill point allocation tree. Point is, if you have more than the minimum required skill points specced into ground. You Fail At Life, as far as Space is concerned, in a major way. Which is the only way you could possibly be coming up short on points to not have Defenses specced.
Also our "speced defenses" mean we get one shot a whole lot less than chumps like you do that just warp in and drive up the respawn timer.
Also, you clearly don't know the game mechanics if you think every pvp needs high acc weaponry. If you have ways to negate Defense score, CrtH becomes much more appealing (and is almost always more powerful than CrtD which is in turn far beyond mere DMG, or worse, Borg)
Also chump, there's this other mechanic you're clearly unaware of called Accuracy Overflow which adds to your crit chance and severity by a fairly significant amount.
What, you don't know how to tell time? Five minute runs. Take five minutes off the top of the clock and there you go.
Also I don't think you've ever even seen Jabbas sail barge. I suggest you find a better insult for the Chubby Scort than that.
OP, I'd like to respond to your first post and ignore some of the other stuff that's been said.
I've made impassioned well written walls of texts as well as squealing misspelled butthurt posts on things having counters. I think everything should have a counter.
I think tricobalt mines have a counter in PvP, and further I think they're balanced. AoE abilities destroy them, but you could say the same thing about, say, Aceton Assimilators. AA's are tough, however, and highly resistant to many forms of damage. Tric mines most certainly are not. So not only are they vulnerable to AoE, they're extremely fragile. Then there's the arming time and deployment range. Many AoE attacks have a short range, but trics must be deployed inside of that range, then sit there while they arm. So not only are they fragile, they have a large window in which to be destroyed.
This is to say nothing of the cost of slotting the mine and the dispersal pattern, which affects the balance overall.
I don't think tricobalt mines have a counter in PvE. I wish they did. Occasionally you need to watch for FAW to end, but that's it. I wish the PvE counter came in the form of improved AI. Until then, PvE and STF's in particular will remain a dps race against giant gas-bags of HP. If you are upset that the ability to cut into the bloated NPC HP takes away from the challenge or the skill requirements of PvE, I'd say you're kind of right. But doing it slower doesn't mean it takes more skill. It just means you're not optimized. Don't think that PvPers don't want PvE to improve. I know I want it to improve, but not by simply taking away the most efficient tools with a change to the magnitude of the damage. I want a smarter AI that will actually counter what's being done. And I want missions involving some kind of objective that cannot be solved every time simply by killing things faster.
So, honestly, tric mines are fine. PvE is not, but it hasn't been. PvP requires adapting to what's being thrown at you.
Also, I flew through a tric mine cloaked in my Tor'kaht. I was over 10k from the nearest enemy and died instantly. Excrement occurs, space is a hazardous place. So I've felt the pain of a "no-skill" kill. But if you think about it, I gave them that kill because I thought I was safe, so maybe in that moment I was the one with no skill in that equation. Maybe when it comes to tric mines, the "no-skill" part doesn't refer to the person launching them.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Also, I flew through a tric mine cloaked in my Tor'kaht. I was over 10k from the nearest enemy and died instantly. Excrement occurs, space is a hazardous place. So I've felt the pain of a "no-skill" kill. But if you think about it, I gave them that kill because I thought I was safe, so maybe in that moment I was the one with no skill in that equation. Maybe when it comes to tric mines, the "no-skill" part doesn't refer to the person launching them.
How is flying cloaked 10k from any enemies and dying to an invisible mine at some random point in space a reflection of a lack of skill on your part?
He didn't figure that the combat zone is really a 20km sphere (where the battle was in addition to where it is now) when he came in. Probably at full impulse. That's partly why I come in either diagonal above or below when I come into the combat zone again. Not just for trick mines, but even mundane stuff like chron mines, or CTMs which can and will spot me cloaked and pop me out of it if I run into them. Especially in AOE light teams you have to think about pets/trash being around somewhere.
My personal opinion is that, with the change in mine rules, they should have reinstated the friendly fire mechanics to tric mines. Other than that, yeah getting hit is a result of lack of AoE powers. Not a big deal in premades or pugmades, but in PUGs 1 B'Rel can decide the whole match.
I think the dmg can stay as it is... yes its high and they can be one shot weapons... and I think for a 1 min cool down on something easily destroyed thats ok.
However... I think they did get a bit of a MES value like the rest of the mines... I think that should go. They should be the easiest of all the mines to kill.
They also should not be able to proc Rifts at all.
I would also love to see there AOE radius reduced... or perhaps even removed. Right now they can be more annoying then dangerous causing disables when they run into spam. I have also seen people blow up when they hit a photo fleet 3k away or another mine which is always funny... Dropping them in the other teams mine field is always funny. It would also tone down the WTF nature of seeing 2 or 3 people die at once, which is just crazy... and again considering all the spam that can still be created, even if the other team is using aoe I have still seen tric mines take out 2 people at once.
I think the dmg can stay as it is... yes its high and they can be one shot weapons... and I think for a 1 min cool down on something easily destroyed thats ok.
However... I think they did get a bit of a MES value like the rest of the mines... I think that should go. They should be the easiest of all the mines to kill.
They also should not be able to proc Rifts at all.
I would also love to see there AOE radius reduced... or perhaps even removed. Right now they can be more annoying then dangerous causing disables when they run into spam. I have also seen people blow up when they hit a photo fleet 3k away or another mine which is always funny... Dropping them in the other teams mine field is always funny. It would also tone down the WTF nature of seeing 2 or 3 people die at once, which is just crazy... and again considering all the spam that can still be created, even if the other team is using aoe I have still seen tric mines take out 2 people at once.
I dont think i like the DMG you should not be able to take out 3 people on a team and almost a 4th with 4 mines like we saw last night....:(
Add bells and whistles and little glowing streamers out thier rears so all can see them when they are used. Add in a voice over that cries aloud " Mines have been used" and little black and yellow drones that warn all players that come too close to be careful.
I'll start replacing the energy sources of thegames torpedos with cole slaw and someone else modify all the enegry weapons to give an annoucement when they are fired so no one is caught offguard in combat.
Add bells and whistles and little glowing streamers out thier rears so all can see them when they are used. Add in a voice over that cries aloud " Mines have been used" and little black and yellow drones that warn all players that come too close to be careful.
I'll start replacing the energy sources of thegames torpedos with cole slaw and someone else modify all the enegry weapons to give an annoucement when they are fired so no one is caught offguard in combat.
Methinks you doth protest the protest too much...
While it's entirely possible that you're just raging against an overall issue (and this is the most likely case) - it's still kind of coming off as something else...
Add bells and whistles and little glowing streamers out thier rears so all can see them when they are used. Add in a voice over that cries aloud " Mines have been used" and little black and yellow drones that warn all players that come too close to be careful.
I'll start replacing the energy sources of thegames torpedos with cole slaw and someone else modify all the enegry weapons to give an annoucement when they are fired so no one is caught offguard in combat.
I hope this is sarcasm because I don't care for coleslaw.
While it's entirely possible that you're just raging against an overall issue (and this is the most likely case) - it's still kind of coming off as something else...
I hope this is sarcasm because I don't care for coleslaw.
A lot of sarcasm, considering that one of the points of dislike with the Tric mine it seems is that you can easily overlook it in combat and die for that mistake if unprepared.
But mainly its frustration from real life issues bleeding through into my postings as someplayers complain about a weapon that until it was used smartly in combat was considered a joke by many.
Now that someone has found an effective use for it, suddenly its out of balance?
If its that much an issue, remove its ability to be buffed by dispersal patterns and let the Tric mine be the only solo mine in the game.
Frankly I only used one as a means to irritate escorts who like to stay in my 6 in combat. Most time it dies in the CSV onslaught and only occassionally (twice actually) has it worked well a killed a foe.
Well, I hope whatever is troubling you gets resolved. (<<being serious)
I was running un patterned tric's on the back of my ody/healer long ago. Its not like I just jumped on the wagon of usokg them. Back then, which was apparently before they got a pretty nice buff, I only used them to try to cause some stuns here and there if they happened to land. It was extrememly rare they killed anyone
Now I've been supporting a balance to healing in this game for a long while now. The one hour matches are too much. Having said that and knowing that I think things need to die faster, I still argue that a one hit kill that gives you no chance to recover is still too much. To me, it falls under the same feeling I have of having to rely on lucky shield procs to determine a match against two good teams. Even though it usually spells death, at least with a shield proc, you still have a chance to get a engy team sent to restore the subsystem.
I still argue that a one hit kill that gives you no chance to recover is still too much.
On this I will agree, but not in the case of a single Tric mine.
They are too easy to avoid and even outrun and mitigate. They are the Player version of the Borg super plasma torpedo and like that one-shot NPC weapon the Trics tend to only get your if you do not see them, you happen on them by accident unprepared or for some reason the AoE attack you just used missed them.
Heck if you skill spec for more defense than DPS, they sometimes do not even ruffle ones feathers for more than a second.
SO I do not understand the huge uproar completely.
If 4 or more in a single attack is too much then make the Tric mine unbuffed by dispersal patterns and leave them as a single shot weapon with a 60 second cool down.
How many character skill points did you spend
To get defenses against pvp style attacks ?
How many boff skills did you use to make another
Helpless , slowed ect
I'n pve all of those points and skills can be devoted
To damage or strait up defense
Console slots are not used on things like sub space jump
Difficult concept to grasp but try
Were doing 66000 damage every 30 secs to a gate
Without crits plus damage from overloaded torps and
Energy weapons I've saw a few crits over 110k just
Today I know were noobs and I'm sure your +30 Acc
Weapons do more damage than my x3 damage 40% crit
Weapons right ?
You lower the IQ of the majority of pvpers
If you team up
But you were going to switch weapons out right ?
Then it's no longer a pvp build is it
Anyone can see who doesn't know what there talking
About here
On this I will agree, but not in the case of a single Tric mine.
They are too easy to avoid and even outrun and mitigate. They are the Player version of the Borg super plasma torpedo and like that one-shot NPC weapon the Trics tend to only get your if you do not see them, you happen on them by accident unprepared or for some reason the AoE attack you just used missed them.
Heck if you skill spec for more defense than DPS, they sometimes do not even ruffle ones feathers for more than a second.
SO I do not understand the huge uproar completely.
If 4 or more in a single attack is too much then make the Tric mine unbuffed by dispersal patterns and leave them as a single shot weapon with a 60 second cool down.
If this was the case i would agree with you that they are not a problem.. But its not 1 mine every 60 secs if it was people wouldnt use them as much.. most people i know that use them run 2.. so its 8 mines every 60 sec. and 4 Mines every 30sec with MES put together with all the other spam on the battlefield(other mines,pets) are not easy to avoid.
freaking redic I have to run a faw escort again to combat mine spam... csv only works if the mine is in the direction you are shooting and dhc don't shoot but directly forward I guess i can sit there and spin my camera arround hoping my turrets can catch them. Even faw misses them and because of the nerf it got hit with!
Your right pvpers specs into defense
So a pver who doesn't need all that defense
Can spec into offense with the skill points the
Pver had to spend simply to survive
The pvper must also use hi accuracy weapons
That do less damage than a pver who can buy
Hi damage hi crit weapons because he doesn't
Need the extra accuracy
First: My PvP tac has ALL the points available in damage, AND all the defece i could wish for. This allows me to deal top damage, and I can't remember the last time I died in a STF. (barring Negh ISO-chain)
And about that "wasted" accuracy, you know what happens to it? If you have more than you need it spills over into CrtH and CrtD.
Tric mines are ok. In PvP they are TRIBBLE, because anyone half-skilled will know to avoid them or take them out, but in PvE they can be fun.
Those crits you speak even put a lie to your claimed ability to deal good damage. THISTHISTHIS is how a proper tric blast should look like!
And even with this ability, I say I'm MORE efficient in STFs with CSV/TS loadout. Yes, trics are good for single big targets, but useless if you need to kill two things in rapid succession.
This applies to Deployment pattern Beta + Mines in general. After testing, it does not affect Deployment Pattern Alpha.
This is the only post in this thread that needs addressing. I was not actually aware of this, but it appears to not only be a problem with tricobalts, although it is probably most pronounced with them due to their high crit damage. If this was fixed, I'd imagine it would get rid of the 1-shots thru shields.
If this was the case i would agree with you that they are not a problem.. But its not 1 mine every 60 secs if it was people wouldnt use them as much.. most people i know that use them run 2.. so its 8 mines every 60 sec. and 4 Mines every 30sec with MES put together with all the other spam on the battlefield(other mines,pets) are not easy to avoid.
Hence, do not let Tric mines be affected by Dispersal Pattern abilities.
All other mine types should be able to work just fine under it.
If twin DPs and mines spray a cloud behind them it would most certainly be crappy to fly into, but thats combat.
Or
Give the mines the same splash damage the torps have.
Then spraying a cloud of Tric mines could really be dangerous
Comments
Agh. Don't remind me.
I still have 4 chars that are stuck at 40-45 that I need to cap to try that ship.
right, im not arguing that tacticals shouldnt be able to boost it, im saying that they should!
thats not the point i was trying to make. although that sounds like cryptic when they stated they didnt anticpate players stacking powers -rolls eyes-
R.I.P
You have no clue who I am, if you think this forum name is my in game handle.
Secondly: kid I -know- this game's mechanics better than you. It's all the more evident when you talk about "pvpers have to spec in defense they sacrifice offense!" Here's a hint Chump, we dont'. We spec to the 9s in both. Infact 9/10 times we pick some form of defense to sacrifice (particularly useless skills like, say, Starship Sensors, Subsystem repair, anything more than 3 ranks in threat control) to get our raw offense through the roof.
Your spec is not some magical beast that some how violates the skill point allocation tree. Point is, if you have more than the minimum required skill points specced into ground. You Fail At Life, as far as Space is concerned, in a major way. Which is the only way you could possibly be coming up short on points to not have Defenses specced.
Also our "speced defenses" mean we get one shot a whole lot less than chumps like you do that just warp in and drive up the respawn timer.
Also, you clearly don't know the game mechanics if you think every pvp needs high acc weaponry. If you have ways to negate Defense score, CrtH becomes much more appealing (and is almost always more powerful than CrtD which is in turn far beyond mere DMG, or worse, Borg)
Also chump, there's this other mechanic you're clearly unaware of called Accuracy Overflow which adds to your crit chance and severity by a fairly significant amount.
What, you don't know how to tell time? Five minute runs. Take five minutes off the top of the clock and there you go.
Also I don't think you've ever even seen Jabbas sail barge. I suggest you find a better insult for the Chubby Scort than that.
I thought the PvE'ers hated the one-shot Borg attacks in the STFs. Now that the player can bring some payback its wrong?
R.I.P
I've made impassioned well written walls of texts as well as squealing misspelled butthurt posts on things having counters. I think everything should have a counter.
I think tricobalt mines have a counter in PvP, and further I think they're balanced. AoE abilities destroy them, but you could say the same thing about, say, Aceton Assimilators. AA's are tough, however, and highly resistant to many forms of damage. Tric mines most certainly are not. So not only are they vulnerable to AoE, they're extremely fragile. Then there's the arming time and deployment range. Many AoE attacks have a short range, but trics must be deployed inside of that range, then sit there while they arm. So not only are they fragile, they have a large window in which to be destroyed.
This is to say nothing of the cost of slotting the mine and the dispersal pattern, which affects the balance overall.
I don't think tricobalt mines have a counter in PvE. I wish they did. Occasionally you need to watch for FAW to end, but that's it. I wish the PvE counter came in the form of improved AI. Until then, PvE and STF's in particular will remain a dps race against giant gas-bags of HP. If you are upset that the ability to cut into the bloated NPC HP takes away from the challenge or the skill requirements of PvE, I'd say you're kind of right. But doing it slower doesn't mean it takes more skill. It just means you're not optimized. Don't think that PvPers don't want PvE to improve. I know I want it to improve, but not by simply taking away the most efficient tools with a change to the magnitude of the damage. I want a smarter AI that will actually counter what's being done. And I want missions involving some kind of objective that cannot be solved every time simply by killing things faster.
So, honestly, tric mines are fine. PvE is not, but it hasn't been. PvP requires adapting to what's being thrown at you.
Also, I flew through a tric mine cloaked in my Tor'kaht. I was over 10k from the nearest enemy and died instantly. Excrement occurs, space is a hazardous place. So I've felt the pain of a "no-skill" kill. But if you think about it, I gave them that kill because I thought I was safe, so maybe in that moment I was the one with no skill in that equation. Maybe when it comes to tric mines, the "no-skill" part doesn't refer to the person launching them.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
How is flying cloaked 10k from any enemies and dying to an invisible mine at some random point in space a reflection of a lack of skill on your part?
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Ah, knowing they were in play - okay - different then...
However... I think they did get a bit of a MES value like the rest of the mines... I think that should go. They should be the easiest of all the mines to kill.
They also should not be able to proc Rifts at all.
I would also love to see there AOE radius reduced... or perhaps even removed. Right now they can be more annoying then dangerous causing disables when they run into spam. I have also seen people blow up when they hit a photo fleet 3k away or another mine which is always funny... Dropping them in the other teams mine field is always funny. It would also tone down the WTF nature of seeing 2 or 3 people die at once, which is just crazy... and again considering all the spam that can still be created, even if the other team is using aoe I have still seen tric mines take out 2 people at once.
Dude... Activate CSV or FAW to get em. So easy. Hell even if you run with fighters they should be no problem.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up
I hit headshots aren't much different. I'm not saying its hard to kill tric's. I'm saying a one hit kill doesn't feel right for this game.
I dont think i like the DMG you should not be able to take out 3 people on a team and almost a 4th with 4 mines like we saw last night....:(
Quote of the week:
I'll start replacing the energy sources of thegames torpedos with cole slaw and someone else modify all the enegry weapons to give an annoucement when they are fired so no one is caught offguard in combat.
R.I.P
Methinks you doth protest the protest too much...
While it's entirely possible that you're just raging against an overall issue (and this is the most likely case) - it's still kind of coming off as something else...
I hope this is sarcasm because I don't care for coleslaw.
A lot of sarcasm, considering that one of the points of dislike with the Tric mine it seems is that you can easily overlook it in combat and die for that mistake if unprepared.
But mainly its frustration from real life issues bleeding through into my postings as someplayers complain about a weapon that until it was used smartly in combat was considered a joke by many.
Now that someone has found an effective use for it, suddenly its out of balance?
If its that much an issue, remove its ability to be buffed by dispersal patterns and let the Tric mine be the only solo mine in the game.
Frankly I only used one as a means to irritate escorts who like to stay in my 6 in combat. Most time it dies in the CSV onslaught and only occassionally (twice actually) has it worked well a killed a foe.
R.I.P
I was running un patterned tric's on the back of my ody/healer long ago. Its not like I just jumped on the wagon of usokg them. Back then, which was apparently before they got a pretty nice buff, I only used them to try to cause some stuns here and there if they happened to land. It was extrememly rare they killed anyone
Now I've been supporting a balance to healing in this game for a long while now. The one hour matches are too much. Having said that and knowing that I think things need to die faster, I still argue that a one hit kill that gives you no chance to recover is still too much. To me, it falls under the same feeling I have of having to rely on lucky shield procs to determine a match against two good teams. Even though it usually spells death, at least with a shield proc, you still have a chance to get a engy team sent to restore the subsystem.
R.I.P
God you are one stupid PvEr.
Quote of the week:
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
I just skimmed this load of TRIBBLE but...
Not having timed Infected, I can show 7:30 on CSE. Without Tric mines. I think that trumphs 9:34 on ISE.
First: My PvP tac has ALL the points available in damage, AND all the defece i could wish for. This allows me to deal top damage, and I can't remember the last time I died in a STF. (barring Negh ISO-chain)
And about that "wasted" accuracy, you know what happens to it? If you have more than you need it spills over into CrtH and CrtD.
Tric mines are ok. In PvP they are TRIBBLE, because anyone half-skilled will know to avoid them or take them out, but in PvE they can be fun.
Those crits you speak even put a lie to your claimed ability to deal good damage. THISTHISTHIS is how a proper tric blast should look like!
And even with this ability, I say I'm MORE efficient in STFs with CSV/TS loadout. Yes, trics are good for single big targets, but useless if you need to kill two things in rapid succession.
That much should be obvious to someone spending as much time here as you...
One Crits, they all Crit
This applies to Deployment pattern Beta + Mines in general. After testing, it does not affect Deployment Pattern Alpha.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
This is the only post in this thread that needs addressing. I was not actually aware of this, but it appears to not only be a problem with tricobalts, although it is probably most pronounced with them due to their high crit damage. If this was fixed, I'd imagine it would get rid of the 1-shots thru shields.
@DevolvedOne
Hence, do not let Tric mines be affected by Dispersal Pattern abilities.
All other mine types should be able to work just fine under it.
If twin DPs and mines spray a cloud behind them it would most certainly be crappy to fly into, but thats combat.
Or
Give the mines the same splash damage the torps have.
Then spraying a cloud of Tric mines could really be dangerous
R.I.P