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Let's improve MACO / Omega / KHG

ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Let's start with a comment from Borticus.

As one result of the feedback we've already received in relation to this change, we're performing another performance review of all of the STF set bonuses, with a specific focus on the 3-piece abilities. This includes the Heavy Graviton Beam, Gravitic Anchor, and Mask Energy Field. All of these powers will be improved in some manner, along with an upcoming patch.

Here's some feedback on these.

MACO
MACO two piece is functionally irrelevant. -5% recharge would be good if there were other recharge powers available to stack it with. The only Recharge powers there are either have issues of their own (photonic officer) or are so powerful that -5% is drowned out (Tac Initiative).

Yes I know this reduces the cooldown of nearly everything, while that's certainly an interesting concept - but it remains a fluff concept at 5%.

Also MACO has combat impulse engines. Combat Impulse engines are terrible at VA level.

Graviton does nothing of value, and is on a 3 minute timer. The damage is too small, anyone who wants a crowd control power is going to build it in instead of relying on a single target 3 minute repel power.


OMEGA
Tet Glider is good, but it's also been nerfed heavily. I know this was, rightly, done for PvP concerns - but its now fairly weak against Borg, many of whom don't even have shields.

Gravitic Anchor is almost decent - the cooldown is too long or the duration is too short, or both. On top of this, it has a slow flight speed and -50 defense is completely pointless on STFs.

Switch the -Defense & -Kinetic Values, reduce cooldown to 90s and increase duration to 15s. Then it would be a really good power. Or keep the cooldown at 3 minutes, but increase the duration to 30s.

Keep in mind as implemented currently the resistance debuff of this power is weaker than Attack Pattern Beta 1, has a short effective duration than Attack Pattern Beta 1, is limited to a target only debuff (as opposed to buffing your guns like APB) and only debuffs one very specific resistance type (kinetic) whereas Attack Pattern Beta debuffs everything.

I know this power has other things it does, but the borg fly like they are mired in molasses and hitting them is not an issue even for builds with 0 ACC.

KHG
Tactical Readyness has some odd crew recovery and resistance bonuses (fluff), +25% torpedo damage. +25% torpedo damage is decent, but only if you use Torpedos.

Broadening this to include mines would be a good start.

I know archoncryptic has commented that you can't make all powers fit every build - but if you're making one-size fits all sets you should aim for broader use powers and not build specific ones.


Mask Energy Field, certainly wins hands down as least useful STF set power for STFs.
Post edited by ussultimatum on
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Comments

  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I know archoncryptic has commented that you can't make all powers fit every build - but if you're making one-size fits all sets you should aim for broader use powers and not build specific ones.

    Well perhaps its time to set the sets free then....

    Make the faction specific sets cross faction.... add a ferengi trader or something who will sell you the other teams sets for the right price.

    Yes I know that doesn't solve the fact that sets aren't always general... Omega is pointless if you don't use nrg... KHG is pointless if you don't use kinetic... Maco is what ever it is maco is.... still it would make it less of an issue if you had 3 STF choices instead of 2.
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    husanakx wrote: »
    Well perhaps its time to set the sets free then....

    Make the faction specific sets cross faction.... add a ferengi trader or something who will sell you the other teams sets for the right price.

    Yes I know that doesn't solve the fact that sets aren't always general... Omega is pointless if you don't use nrg... KHG is pointless if you don't use kinetic... Maco is what ever it is maco is.... still it would make it less of an issue if you had 3 STF choices instead of 2.

    Fleet Defiant might be a little OP with 2pc Honor Guard, it already has the most devestating strike there is.

    It would be nice to get access to MACO shields for KDF though so I have another choice instead of using Omega or using Honor Guard and wasting the torp bonus for my all energy weapon character though. Just not sure its worth giving 2pc Honor Guard to Feds for it.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • superherofansuperherofan Member Posts: 342 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    My suggestion is to just start from scratch on the third bonus set powers. A crappy power every three minutes just isn't worth it. They weren't well designed to begin with. Just toss them out and think of something new.

    Since I doubt they'll do that, my other suggestion would be to reverse the power bonuses from second and third tier and focus on improving those, i.e. increase the recharge time power reduction for MACO from 15-25%, improve the shield drain for Omega Force, and add either another power modifier or damage mod to Honor Guard.

    Or yet another option could be to add another passive to each of the three set bonuses and knock the recharge time down a bit for the active power.

    I do like the idea of allowing the MACO and Honor Guard to cross factions.
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Uh graviton beam can hit pretty hard when on tac / sci ship with particle generators.
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  • darkenzedddarkenzedd Member Posts: 881
    edited October 2012
    These sets should go back to the drawing board, especially their 3 set powers:

    Maco is the tank set, so perhaps a similar hull heal that the borg set has as the 2 set power to replace the silly relay power, and maybe a clickable shield heal or resistance buff like tss or epts instead of the god awful HGB on the 3 set power...

    Omega is damage, so the 2 piece tet glider is actually useful, but just needs a higher value to be worth it.
    As for the 3 set power, maybe a clickable fire on my mark type power similar to the tac captain power to replace the current useless Gravatic Anchor...

    Klingon Honour Guard set I have no idea as never used it....

    Borg set needs to be removed from the stf side completely and turned into what the devs wanted and make it into a starter set only available by getting a piece from each of the borg front missions, like the Breen/Jem 'Hadar sets.

    Aegis set needs a whole new redesign...
  • lostusthornlostusthorn Member Posts: 844
    edited October 2012
    Radical ideas for the 3pc KHG,

    Instead of the MES, battlecloak.
    Or make the MES a team effect.
    Or replace it entirely with a centered on the ship gravimetric pulse that pushes every enemy object in say a 5km radius away like a TBR.
    Or how about a passive, +10% all damage resistance for the shield and hull.

    Omega 3pc bonus ideas
    Since the set is all about mobility and hitting the target,
    extended weapons range by say 2.5km because of the advanced targeting system.
    Or extended arc on weapons, by like 10-20 degrees.
    Or hrmm, to keep in the theme of the glider, increased shield penetration, say 25% extra.

    maco
    reflect energy attack back to attacker, from all the bling. lets say as passive 2.5% change to proc. or as active power on demand for the next 5 seconds. a kind of oh **** power.
  • lostusthornlostusthorn Member Posts: 844
    edited October 2012
    darkenzedd wrote: »
    Aegis set needs a whole new redesign...

    The Aegis powers in general are fine as they are, and pretty effective in the right setup. However the set in general should get an upgrade to mk12 and more up to date stats.
  • carl103carl103 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    There are 2 real issues with the 3pc bonusus.

    1. too long a CD. with a 3 minute CD you can't rely on being able to use it for anything so it's not a great skill. IOt needs to abe a minute or lss so we cna have it up often enough to factor it into anything we do.

    2. Too sort a duration or too small a magnitude. MACO suffers from not hitting hard enough damage wise, (the repel is too weak and too overshadowed by other things to be worth mentioning). And OMEGA's just isn';t long enough to properly take advantage of.

    2b. KHG is just usless period in STF's you don't want need, or use a cloak there so a cloak like ability dosen't do anyone any good.


    My suggestions:

    1. Reduce all active powers to a 1 minute CD, (except KHG, see below on this).

    2.

    MACO: Drop the repel effect and slow. In STF's you generally need to hit too many targets for that to be handy. Instead make it do a base 2/3/4K Kenetic damage with 40% bleedthrough and standard Aux power scalars. I'd also increase the arc to 360 so that starfleet cruisers have a workable 3 set effect. Makes for a nice powerful bursty Kenetic damage effect with good bleedthrough, this is more than handy enough as at max power levels against an unsheilded target it's bassiclly a THY3 Plasma Torp. But wioth the advantage of significant bleethrough.

    OMEGA: Just raise the resiatnce and efence debuff duration to 30 seconds. 10 seconds is too short to take advantage of. 30 allows for some real fun and games.

    KHG:A cloak just isn't useful. So just drop the stealth effect and make it a 5KM 30 seconds defence buff. ven 10-15% is going to be significant for non-escorts, a 20-25% is going to be big news.


    3. The 2-set bonusus are actually a good deal better but still aren't really on par with borg by a mile, so here's some thoughts.

    KHG: I don't have any good anwsers here, if everything and it's dog didn't kill all your crew off in a couple of shots this would be quite useful, as is not so much.

    OMEGA: We obviosuly don;t want an OP PvP setup so here's my suggestion. Make it also add a passive +X radiation damage per weapons cycle vs Borg effect to all weaposn. Even at a low 100/200/300 magnitude thats going to be significant without TRIBBLE over PvP.

    MACO: This is the ushual cruiser set. And that 5% isn't tottally FUBAR. Just not impressive on it's own. How about adding a small passive weapns power energy drain resistance. Even 20-30 points would be enough to be useful, (and escorts would still see a benefit too), without going OTT IMHO.
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Some interesting responses so far.
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    Uh graviton beam can hit pretty hard when on tac / sci ship with particle generators.


    The above quote is the very definition of too narrow and niche of a usage for what is a power on a "one size fits all" design.


    You need to:

    1) Be a Tac & blow all of your cooldowns
    2) Have particle generators
    3) Most likely, but not necessarily, be flying a Sci ship (as few escorts or cruiser builds are going to have a use for particle generators).

    This, along with the 3 min CD and single target only limitation is why Graviton Beam is generally regarded as terrible.
  • weylandjuarezweylandjuarez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Some interesting responses so far.




    The above quote is the very definition of too narrow and niche of a usage for what is a power on a "one size fits all" design.


    You need to:

    1) Be a Tac
    2) Have particle generators
    3) Most likely, but not necessarily, be flying a Sci ship (as few escorts or cruiser builds are going to have a use for particle generators).

    This, along with the 3 min CD and single target only limitation is why Graviton Beam is generally regarded as terrible.

    I disagree - if you're Sci, chances are you're semi-specced into this already so you can make some use out of the Heavy Graviton Beam.

    If you're Tac/Eng and you want to use it then you'll have to tinker with your build a bit (and honestly, I don't see anything wrong with that).

    Fully specced for max damage with all Tac abilities running, it hits (non-crit) for around 15,000 (50% shield penetration) - if they buff it any more, for Tacs at least it'll potentially be a one-hit kill (it already can be if it crits).

    The problem isn't the HGB - it's the insane multipliers Tacs get.
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  • red01999red01999 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I don't have too much experience with the sets so I can't comment on them. Why is this?

    Because most of the "active" set powers, and many of the "passive" ones, just aren't worth anything. For instance, the Reman set's bonuses are quite literally, as I recall, virtually inconsequential, and come at an unacceptably steep price given the individual set pieces.

    I'm not sure I can suggest much, but the active three-minute worth-nothing powers aren't even worth me looking at, and the passives really need a boost badly (and some of them need to be outright replaced). As-is, some of these set pieces are an active burden to be carrying around when all is said and done and the actual capabilities of the pieces are brought along.

    There's also the issue of sets that basically no one uses - the Breen set comes to mind. That one you might want to give some thought. It's not considered fit for an end-game set by anyone I've asked, and you don't get to it until late in the game considering the level requirements just to play the missions that reward it. Aegis was a favorite of mine until I saw how it paled compared to the 3 Borg + MACO combo.

    I'm not against some of these changes, but please keep it in mind. I guess you could look at this post as encouragement, if what you're doing is what it looks like you are, to me.
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    edited October 2012
    Yesterday, we performed another tuning pass on the set bonuses associated with these high-end sets. The changes we settled on are conservative (mostly), but we think that players will enjoy the increase in effectiveness that all of these powers will receive. Here are the details of what should show up on Tribble soon:

    MACO:

    2-Piece -
    * For the time being, we've chosen to not increase the cooldown reduction offered by this bonus. Because it impacts too many different cooldowns, making it larger than 5% can lead to some scaling issues. Instead, we're looking at possibly adding another passive effect alongside it, and would welcome suggestions.

    3-Piece -
    * We've chosen to not increase the damage dealt by this ability, as it was never intended for the damage component to be its primary source of utility.
    * Knockback has been increased.
    * Added Engines Offline and Weapons Offline effects, to go alongside the existing Aux Offline.

    OMEGA:

    2-Piece -
    * No changes for the time being, but we're looking into it.
    * One problem with the current Tetryon Glider is that it drains all four facings simultaneously. We're considering changing it to only drain the facing that is hit, which would allow us to also increase the magnitude of the effect a bit.

    3-Piece -
    * We're increasing the speed of the projectile by a large amount.
    * Many have asked for the Kinetic Debuff and Defense Debuff magnitudes to swap places, but that's unlikely to occur. Keep in mind that enemy NPCs have an innate Defense value that is not based on their speed alone. Debuffing that, even all the way into negative figures, allows any innate Accuracy you may possess to spill over into Crit bonuses at a higher rate. Also, this is effectively a full-team buff. We believe the magnitude of the effects scale well enough in a team setting that increasing them would be a bad idea.

    KHG:

    2-Piece -
    * We haven't reviewed the data on this one yet, but also haven't heard many complaints about it, if any. It may be fine as-is.

    3-Piece -
    * This power wasn't quite functioning in a way that we wanted it to, and so portions of it have been rebuilt. We're still not completely sure that it's up to snuff, and are definitely keeping an eye on it.
    * It is now more like an AOE Enhanced Battle Cloak, but also allows Energy Weapons to be fired. If you are under the effects of the Mask Energy Field, and fire a weapon, you will be revealed for a couple seconds before the effect takes hold again. Unlike an EBC, your shields stay active while stealthed.
    * The effect lasts 30 seconds and has a recharge of 120 seconds, allowing for frequent up-time.
    * Even if the stealth effect is not active on you (because you are firing weapons, or are being fired upon), you will still benefit from the +Defense bonus it offers.

    ALL SETS:

    We were planning to surprise folks with this news when we released the Omega Reputation, but in the interest of the ongoing balance discussions, I'll go ahead and let the cat out of the bag...

    We've decided to introduce cross-faction sets. But, let me clarify...

    Upon reach Tier 5 in Omega Reputation, players will now unlock the ability to earn an "Adapted" version of their faction's Ground and Space Sets, each of which confer the exact same stats as their counterpart. In other words, the Adapted MACO Space Set will have the exact same stats and effects as the existing Klingon Honor Guard Space Set, while maintaining the cosmetic appearance of the MACO set.

    The Adapted Ground Sets will actually have a new costume attached to them that has not yet been released. Another variant of the existing MACO and KHG armors. And again, just to be clear, this does not mean you'll see Federation players wearing Klingon outfits and vice versa - they will still appear cosmetically as the appropriate faction, and simply possess the stats & bonuses of the opposite faction.

    This move is being done in order to bring some parity to the faction-specific sets. Hopefully allowing all players to have access to the effects of all of the sets will allow for more universal feedback and a more balanced gameplay experience.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I disagree - if you're Sci, chances are you're semi-specced into this already so you can make some use out of the Heavy Graviton Beam.

    If you're Sci the power is weak damage wise.

    If you're Tac/Eng and you want to use it then you'll have to tinker with your build a bit (and honestly, I don't see anything wrong with that).


    What's wrong with it is that it is exceedingly niche focused and is the 3rd tier power of a very small handful of available STF sets.

    Archoncryptic has stated that they can't design sets to fit all builds all of the time, and I generally agree with that assessment.

    So if that is the case, then designing a power with such a very limited niche focus on a 3 min CD is a problem.




    Fully specced for max damage with all Tac abilities running, it hits (non-crit) for around 15,000 (50% shield penetration) - if they buff it any more, for Tacs at least it'll potentially be a one-hit kill (it already can be if it crits).



    Again, too niche and requires too much investment for a 3rd Tier set power - if this were simply a Sci BOFF power on a 30s or 60s CD, then it would be completely fine.
  • chalpenchalpen Member Posts: 2,207 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    My issue with the kdf space sets are that the only way to get the enhanced warp drive (go above warp 10) is with the Borg engines.
    The khg engines dot have a useful ability so why not give it the enhanced warp drive as well?
    Should I start posting again after all this time?
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    edited October 2012
    chalpen wrote: »
    The khg engines dot have a useful ability so why not give it the enhanced warp drive as well?

    I highly disagree that the Hot Restart is not a "useful ability" -- it basically guarantees that all Engines Offline status effects last 1sec or less. In point of fact, it's the only STF Set engine that has an In-Combat bonus (unless you count Aegis) making it arguably more valuable than the others.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • wesleycrasherwesleycrasher Member Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I agree. Disabled engines are a death sentence for an escort and with the rampant disable spam in pvp nowadays, I find the KHG engines help me survive more than most anything else.
    All the toys you can't afford.
  • yris3yris3 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I have been keeping my MK XII tech drops in the hope the future would see something at least HALF decent compared to the MACO and OMEGA (and KHG to a lesser extend since you have to switch to Borg to go beyond transwarp 10 in sector space).
    You nerf BORG set, ok, it was, 2.5 years after the release of the game still the best set in game...And what are you doing exactly? You review something crappy in case you could make it less crappy?

    Bring the sets in line with Fleet weapons, give each set a decent power like the (current but not for long) BORG 2 piece and 3 piece ones, then people will complain less with the sets, instead of revamping the old crappy ones.

    MACO and OMEGA had nothing to offer to PVE people. Less love for PvPers please who called for many nerfs and got them all: Engineers switching kits (other classes can still do it and keep the benefits and I do NOT call for a nerf on that), Sci powers, Tholian ground PSG MK XII and many more.

    Stop nerfing, create (and improve the stuff you have if you wish, but I mean really improve it!) to please the whole player base, not just PvPers.

    Thanks.
  • weylandjuarezweylandjuarez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Upon reach Tier 5 in Omega Reputation, players will now unlock the ability to earn an "Adapted" version of their faction's Ground and Space Sets, each of which confer the exact same stats as their counterpart. In other words, the Adapted MACO Space Set will have the exact same stats and effects as the existing Klingon Honor Guard Space Set, while maintaining the cosmetic appearance of the MACO set.

    That's it? Seriously?

    Why?

    Omega is already the cross-faction set - why would you need to make MACO/KHG cross faction?

    I mean, I get that some KDF players might want MACO and some Feds might want KHG but having these sets faction exclusive gives each faction something unique (and yeah, I play Fed and KDF).

    There was nothing wrong with how things were and if anything, once again you're giving people less reason to play KDF.

    Dumb move - really dumb.

    And once again, it's a glaring example of trying to pass off old content as 'new' - the only work that's being done here is texture mapping - do you even have any designers or programmers left working on STO??
    Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
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  • carl103carl103 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    My thoughts in red text, any suggestions in green:

    Yesterday, we performed another tuning pass on the set bonuses associated with these high-end sets. The changes we settled on are conservative (mostly), but we think that players will enjoy the increase in effectiveness that all of these powers will receive. Here are the details of what should show up on Tribble soon:

    MACO:

    2-Piece -
    * For the time being, we've chosen to not increase the cooldown reduction offered by this bonus. Because it impacts too many different cooldowns, making it larger than 5% can lead to some scaling issues. Instead, we're looking at possibly adding another passive effect alongside it, and would welcome suggestions.

    I suggested a small passive wepaon energy drain resistance, this gives everyone an advanatge, but since the MACO set is most likliy to be used by tanking Cruisers, they get the biggest benefit.

    3-Piece -
    * We've chosen to not increase the damage dealt by this ability, as it was never intended for the damage component to be its primary source of utility.
    * Knockback has been increased.
    * Added Engines Offline and Weapons Offline effects, to go alongside the existing Aux Offline.

    Meaningless change is meaningless. The ability is on a 3minute CD and it's single target. Even if it hurled the target 15KM away, they'll be back before it's off CD. I can simply take a single copy of TBR1 and get an AoE vershion with rapid cooldown. Ineed the single target nature of this is a reall killer as well. Th offline on weapons and Engines is nice-ish, but given the cooldown and the ultra-short duration, it's still somewhat of a token affect over the duration of a ful mission.

    Reduce the CD to 60 seconds and make it hit every target in the 90 degree cone. You can freely drop the rest of the debuffs if you do tha IMHO, i wouldn't miss them.

    OMEGA:

    2-Piece -
    * No changes for the time being, but we're looking into it.
    * One problem with the current Tetryon Glider is that it drains all four facings simultaneously. We're considering changing it to only drain the facing that is hit, which would allow us to also increase the magnitude of the effect a bit.

    Intresting idea, didn't know you could limit them to 1 facing only, if you can and as long as you scale the magnitude sufficentlly for the PvP crowd this should work.

    3-Piece -
    * We're increasing the speed of the projectile by a large amount.
    * Many have asked for the Kinetic Debuff and Defense Debuff magnitudes to swap places, but that's unlikely to occur. Keep in mind that enemy NPCs have an innate Defense value that is not based on their speed alone. Debuffing that, even all the way into negative figures, allows any innate Accuracy you may possess to spill over into Crit bonuses at a higher rate. Also, this is effectively a full-team buff. We believe the magnitude of the effects scale well enough in a team setting that increasing them would be a bad idea.

    I agree here on the magnitude, but there's a huge issue. it's 10 seconds of uptime, on a 3minute CD, the end boost is marginal even if everyone coordinates fire and you've got a sutibale target to use it on. If eitheir of those isn't true it's just downright usless.

    Take a cue from your own KHG 3pc change. Make it a 20-30 second uptime on a 120 seciond CD. That opens the window for it's benefits to kick in much more, and helps give it better uptime. Still dosen't help if you've got a large number of targets, (a lot of fleet actions and the new nebulae rescue if what i've heard about the latter is true), but it's a big help against any powerful single target.

    KHG:

    2-Piece -
    * We haven't reviewed the data on this one yet, but also haven't heard many complaints about it, if any. It may be fine as-is.

    Actually this bonus is very poor and very obviouslly so. Most non-Scis's/B'rel Refit players don't run torp boats so to them this set is tottlaly worthless given the current 3pc, (see below for my comments on your change). So whilst you won't have heard anything about it, thats becuase no one care's about it for the most part IMHO. The basic problem is that the crew benefit isn't worth anything in reality, you lose crew too easilly and quickly for it to actually matter. hat eans only the torp benefit is worth anything and unless your runing a torp boat thats a bit lackluster.

    I honestly don't have any easy suggestions, the basic problem is that you need to give it some kind of benefit to non-torpedoe boats, but it's not clear how that should come about IMHO. There's nothing to simply buff or extend e.t.c. here.

    3-Piece -
    * This power wasn't quite functioning in a way that we wanted it to, and so portions of it have been rebuilt. We're still not completely sure that it's up to snuff, and are definitely keeping an eye on it.
    * It is now more like an AOE Enhanced Battle Cloak, but also allows Energy Weapons to be fired. If you are under the effects of the Mask Energy Field, and fire a weapon, you will be revealed for a couple seconds before the effect takes hold again. Unlike an EBC, your shields stay active while stealthed.
    * The effect lasts 30 seconds and has a recharge of 120 seconds, allowing for frequent up-time.
    * Even if the stealth effect is not active on you (because you are firing weapons, or are being fired upon), you will still benefit from the +Defense bonus it offers.

    VERy good change, no complaints. With a solid uptime and serious benefits for the whole team it's only downside is the limited radius. But i see that as an acepptable tradeoff.


    ALL SETS:

    We were planning to surprise folks with this news when we released the Omega Reputation, but in the interest of the ongoing balance discussions, I'll go ahead and let the cat out of the bag...

    We've decided to introduce cross-faction sets. But, let me clarify...

    Upon reach Tier 5 in Omega Reputation, players will now unlock the ability to earn an "Adapted" version of their faction's Ground and Space Sets, each of which confer the exact same stats as their counterpart. In other words, the Adapted MACO Space Set will have the exact same stats and effects as the existing Klingon Honor Guard Space Set, while maintaining the cosmetic appearance of the MACO set.

    The Adapted Ground Sets will actually have a new costume attached to them that has not yet been released. Another variant of the existing MACO and KHG armors. And again, just to be clear, this does not mean you'll see Federation players wearing Klingon outfits and vice versa - they will still appear cosmetically as the appropriate faction, and simply possess the stats & bonuses of the opposite faction.

    This move is being done in order to bring some parity to the faction-specific sets. Hopefully allowing all players to have access to the effects of all of the sets will allow for more universal feedback and a more balanced gameplay experience.

    Nice change, does this mean only the borg set is getting a full second set that can sit alongside existing stes? I'd been thinking of starting a shread of random idea's for you on that, (though i'm sure you have plenty anyway, was going to be a for fun thing realy).


    I highly disagree that the Hot Restart is not a "useful ability" -- it basically guarantees that all Engines Offline status effects last 1sec or less. In point of fact, it's the only STF Set engine that has an In-Combat bonus (unless you count Aegis) making it arguably more valuable than the others.

    2 problems with this.

    1. High warp is an out of combat benefit, the disable immunity is in combat, they have diffrent applications and advantages.

    2. Very littile NPC's, (or indeed players), can bring will disable your engines, so it's not a huge benefit becuase you just don;t encounter anything that gets much use out of it often.
  • gardatgardat Member Posts: 280 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    While we're looking at ways to improve STF sets, can we look at swapping out [plasma] resist for some kind of generic [borg] resist? Since everyone generally uses STF shields in the endgame this makes plasma weaponry very undesirable for PVP and I'd like to see them become an option.
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  • badname834854badname834854 Member Posts: 1,186 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    All of this wouldnt be needed if we simply left the Borg set as-is...out of all the changes the game needs, I am boggled why time and manpower was dedicated to something not even asked for....

    That said, the buffs proposed are a decent start, but far too little. They are also meaningless unless the other sets (Aegis, Breen, Jem and the utterly useless Reman) gets buffs as well. (Aegis has been needing one forever.
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Yesterday, we performed another tuning pass on the set bonuses associated with these high-end sets. The changes we settled on are conservative (mostly), but we think that players will enjoy the increase in effectiveness that all of these powers will receive. Here are the details of what should show up on Tribble soon:

    This is great news, thank you.


    MACO:

    2-Piece -
    * For the time being, we've chosen to not increase the cooldown reduction offered by this bonus. Because it impacts too many different cooldowns, making it larger than 5% can lead to some scaling issues. Instead, we're looking at possibly adding another passive effect alongside it, and would welcome suggestions.

    I can understand how it would be problematic.

    I can think of quite a few suggestions - but I think if you have the time and are willing to share, laying out what the design intent for each specific set was would probably help us come up with some ideas.


    3-Piece -
    * We've chosen to not increase the damage dealt by this ability, as it was never intended for the damage component to be its primary source of utility.
    * Knockback has been increased.
    * Added Engines Offline and Weapons Offline effects, to go alongside the existing Aux Offline.

    I like the idea of it as a control/utility power.

    That being said, I'm not convinced it needs more knockback if it's getting Engines/Weapons Offline effects (you don't want to push a disabled target out of range).

    I can't check in game, and I've not used this power in over 8 months, STO wiki lists -31 Aux to Self, and -speed/-turn to target. So does this actually have an Aux offline component?

    Also, any chance to reduce the cooldown? 120s perhaps?



    OMEGA:

    2-Piece -
    * No changes for the time being, but we're looking into it.
    * One problem with the current Tetryon Glider is that it drains all four facings simultaneously. We're considering changing it to only drain the facing that is hit, which would allow us to also increase the magnitude of the effect a bit.

    I'll wait to see what you come up with.

    3-Piece -
    * We're increasing the speed of the projectile by a large amount.
    * Many have asked for the Kinetic Debuff and Defense Debuff magnitudes to swap places, but that's unlikely to occur. Keep in mind that enemy NPCs have an innate Defense value that is not based on their speed alone. Debuffing that, even all the way into negative figures, allows any innate Accuracy you may possess to spill over into Crit bonuses at a higher rate. Also, this is effectively a full-team buff. We believe the magnitude of the effects scale well enough in a team setting that increasing them would be a bad idea.

    I look forward to testing out the new travel speed.

    I'll test when I get a chance using ACC DHCs, Accurate captain and 9 ranks in Starship Targeting and get back to you.

    Something to keep in mind that the [Borg] guns, the most likely ones people are using on STFs, only have 1 ACC modifier.

    Do you think that will realistically create enough overflow in a 10s span to justify this for theaverage user on a 3 minute cooldown?

    I understand your point on scaling the magnitude of the effect, I think with it's cooldown, limited duration and limitation to kinetic damage it's still significantly weaker than just Attack Pattern Beta 1 (yes, I recognize they can stack, but my concern is the incentive to slot 3 piece omega vs. 2 piece omega and MACO shield for example).


    Rather than increase the magnitude then, are you open to the ideas of:

    > Reducing cooldown to 90s or 120s

    OR

    > Increasing duration to 20s or 30s


    KHG:

    2-Piece -
    * We haven't reviewed the data on this one yet, but also haven't heard many complaints about it, if any. It may be fine as-is.

    It's decent, a bit niche, but still decent - I'd like to see mines also encompassed by this.

    3-Piece -
    * This power wasn't quite functioning in a way that we wanted it to, and so portions of it have been rebuilt. We're still not completely sure that it's up to snuff, and are definitely keeping an eye on it.
    * It is now more like an AOE Enhanced Battle Cloak, but also allows Energy Weapons to be fired. If you are under the effects of the Mask Energy Field, and fire a weapon, you will be revealed for a couple seconds before the effect takes hold again. Unlike an EBC, your shields stay active while stealthed.
    * The effect lasts 30 seconds and has a recharge of 120 seconds, allowing for frequent up-time.
    * Even if the stealth effect is not active on you (because you are firing weapons, or are being fired upon), you will still benefit from the +Defense bonus it offers.

    I'll wait to test the changes then.

    ALL SETS:

    We were planning to surprise folks with this news when we released the Omega Reputation, but in the interest of the ongoing balance discussions, I'll go ahead and let the cat out of the bag...

    We've decided to introduce cross-faction sets. But, let me clarify...

    Upon reach Tier 5 in Omega Reputation, players will now unlock the ability to earn an "Adapted" version of their faction's Ground and Space Sets, each of which confer the exact same stats as their counterpart. In other words, the Adapted MACO Space Set will have the exact same stats and effects as the existing Klingon Honor Guard Space Set, while maintaining the cosmetic appearance of the MACO set.

    The Adapted Ground Sets will actually have a new costume attached to them that has not yet been released. Another variant of the existing MACO and KHG armors. And again, just to be clear, this does not mean you'll see Federation players wearing Klingon outfits and vice versa - they will still appear cosmetically as the appropriate faction, and simply possess the stats & bonuses of the opposite faction.

    This move is being done in order to bring some parity to the faction-specific sets. Hopefully allowing all players to have access to the effects of all of the sets will allow for more universal feedback and a more balanced gameplay experience.


    Really interesting news.


    So I guess nothing stands in the way of Feds getting Plasmonic leech in an upcoming lockbox at this point then, if KDF will have access to the MACO shield. ;)
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    There was nothing wrong with how things were and if anything, once again you're giving people less reason to play KDF.

    KDF are about to have Plasmonic Leech AND the MACO shield, the thing that has seen no end of rant threads based on the mere rumor this might go to Feds and you managed to see this as less reason to play the KDF?


    I think if the devs suddenly said they were going to put Gal-X type disruptor lances on every single KDF ship and in return give the feds 2 ships with battle cloaks you'd still see rant threads on losing KDF uniqueness.
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    We've decided to introduce cross-faction sets. But, let me clarify...

    Wasn't your boss saying in earlier interviews that he was willing to keep factions specificities so that players were willing to give a try to the opposite side? Did this proof of goodwill given to the KDF just vanished? Why not working on different sets? It doesn't look like a balance issue but rather like a cutting costs one. :mad:
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  • orondisorondis Member Posts: 1,447 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Maco set
    2-piece - The cooldown bonus is fine, but the power insulator buff could certainly do with an increase, say to +36 to +54. As it stands you'd get a better bonus from picking a different deflector.


    KHG
    3-piece - Something that is effectively an AOE enhanced battle cloak sounds ridiculously overpowered. That's vastly better then the MACOs weak few seconds disable.

    As for cross faction sets, I'm not sure. One of the benefits of FvF is that we don't face a shield that casts jam sensors on us.
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  • tangolighttangolight Member Posts: 777 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    diogene0 wrote: »
    Wasn't your boss saying in earlier interviews that he was willing to keep factions specificities so that players were willing to give a try to the opposite side? Did this proof of goodwill given to the KDF just vanished? Why not working on different sets? It doesn't look like a balance issue but rather like a cutting costs one. :mad:

    I was earlier posting in a thread from a Klingon player complaining that because they didn't have access to the MACO sets, they had much less choice to go above Warp 10 in sector space, and they didn't want to have to carry a second engine (ie: Borg engine) just for out of combat travel.
  • atatassaultatatassault Member Posts: 1,008 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    MACO:

    2-Piece -
    * For the time being, we've chosen to not increase the cooldown reduction offered by this bonus. Because it impacts too many different cooldowns, making it larger than 5% can lead to some scaling issues. Instead, we're looking at possibly adding another passive effect alongside it, and would welcome suggestions.
    It might seem weak, but this set's shtick is power, right? So how about adding a sizable bonus to the EPS or Warp Core Potential skills (or both)?
    Upon reach Tier 5 in Omega Reputation, players will now unlock the ability to earn an "Adapted" version of their faction's Ground and Space Sets, each of which confer the exact same stats as their counterpart. In other words, the Adapted MACO Space Set will have the exact same stats and effects as the existing Klingon Honor Guard Space Set, while maintaining the cosmetic appearance of the MACO set.

    The Adapted Ground Sets will actually have a new costume attached to them that has not yet been released. Another variant of the existing MACO and KHG armors. And again, just to be clear, this does not mean you'll see Federation players wearing Klingon outfits and vice versa - they will still appear cosmetically as the appropriate faction, and simply possess the stats & bonuses of the opposite faction.

    This move is being done in order to bring some parity to the faction-specific sets. Hopefully allowing all players to have access to the effects of all of the sets will allow for more universal feedback and a more balanced gameplay experience.
    I like this. My KDF Tactical is sorely lacking in the shield heal department, and I love to get that MACO shield heal.
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    orondis wrote: »
    Maco set
    KHG
    3-piece - Something that is effectively an AOE enhanced battle cloak sounds ridiculously overpowered. That's vastly better then the MACOs weak few seconds disable.

    That's a pretty good point with regard to the scale of power between the different sets.

    I agree that if the KHG 3rd tier is effectively some sort of 30s AoE Enhanced Battlecloak that the MACO and Omega powers look woefully underpowered in the face of something like that.


    Especially with the comparitive uptimes.

    30s duration with 120s cooldown vs. two powers on 180s cooldowns that last at best 10s.
  • orondisorondis Member Posts: 1,447 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    As for another MACO set passive, the MACO set seems to be focused on being optimised finely tuned fed equipment (specifically power generation wise) so I've been trying to think along those lines.

    Idea 1 - Improved targeting array - Sort of like sensor analysis but only works with energy weapons and is only half as effective. Has diminishing returns when used on a ship that has sensor analysis. Not a big fan of this idea.

    Idea 2 - Next-gen Warp Core - Effects are akin to a green or blue warp core doff. This is personally my fave as a passive, being helpful in both PvP and PvE but not being overpowered. If it was possible a Mk X set would give a common warp core passive bonus, Mk XI green and Mk XII blue. The biggest problem is getting it to work with the warp core doff without being overpowered. In that case maybe have the passive so it's just the same as a green warpcore doff.

    Idea 3 - Redundant systems - repairs a disabled subsystem with a 3 minute cooldown. Rather useful for PvPers but not really useful for PvEers.

    Idea 4 - Subnucelonic resistance - Like redundant systems but with SNB's. Again great for PvPers, not so great for PvEers outside of fighting the Breen, Dominion and Hirogen. Not much use for fighting Borg or Tholians.

    Idea 5 - Next-gen Warp Core (mk 2) - A Boring +36 warp core potential (the reason this is so high is that you'll hardly see a difference).

    Idea 6 - Combat Impulse Engine conversion - At low engine power settings the engines (combat/impulse or hyper) receive +5 to +10 extra power or just a buff in speed depending on which works best. Second favourite after idea 2.

    Idea 6b - Same as above but focused on turnrate, with low engine power settings giving it a buff. This would also help address some fed players concerns about the low turnrate on fed cruisers.
    Previously Alendiak
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  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    orondis wrote: »
    Idea 2 - Next-gen Warp Core - Effects are akin to a green or blue warp core doff. This is personally my fave as a passive, being helpful in both PvP and PvE but not being overpowered. If it was possible a Mk X set would give a common warp core passive bonus, Mk XI green and Mk XII blue. The biggest problem is getting it to work with the warp core doff without being overpowered. In that case maybe have the passive so it's just the same as a green warpcore doff.

    Interesting.

    Actually, I thought it would be interesting if each set could also have a DOFF Specialized in that particular set that would have some sort of synergy with it.

    orondis wrote: »
    Idea 6 - Combat Impulse Engine conversion - At low engine power settings the engines (combat/impulse or hyper) receive +5 to +10 extra power or just a buff in speed depending on which works best. Second favourite after idea 2.

    Idea 6b - Same as above but focused on turnrate, with low engine power settings giving it a buff. This would also help address some fed players concerns about the low turnrate on fed cruisers.


    The problem with these is that its actually rather difficult to build for low enough adjusted engine power on an endgame ship to actually make use of a Combat Engine at all.
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