Borg Vs Daleks

marcusdkane

Something I thought about the other day, and pretty much immediately came up with an answer to, but wondered if anyone else would share my opinion...

A Dalek's extermination ray would probably kill a drone or two, but their shields would soon adapt, as it's an energy weapon (with apparently one setting) So that would be advantage Borg. However. I don't think that the Borg would view Dalek (either creature or technology) as actually worth assimilating (wouldn't give them anything they don't already have) so I think the Borg would simply destroy the Daleks rather than wasting the resources for assimilation...

What do you think? Yay or nay?

diotw

I'd still put my money on the Daleks. They're genetically engineered geniuses, dedicated to the sole purpose of destroying everything that isn't Dalek. Sure, the Borg adaptation might throw them a curve ball early on, but I doubt it would be long before the Daleks came up with some sort of remodulation device, or rolled out new weapons. It would be somewhat of the unstoppable force hitting the immovable object though, if those two came into contact with each other!

rustychat

I'd say the Borg would want to assimilate the Daleks. There's a number of technologies that they have that the Borg would consider worthwhile. Their shield technology is at least worth a look at, and their antigravity may very well be too. But most likely their command of time, space and dimensions is the biggest boon the Borg would want. Sure, the Borg already have time travel technology, but it seems to be rather basic compared to the Dalek's. Not to mention there's the times when Daleks have been in the void between universes. Their knowledge about Time Lord technology alone could warrant assimilation. A little box full of millions of drones sounds like a great incursion device, and knowledge of the shielding the Tardis uses and how to counteract it would be considered worthwhile knowledge. Even their biology is probably unique enough to warrant assimilation. If they consider Ferengi worthwhile targets for their resistance to telepathic probes, they'd consider the Daleks worthwhile for their telepathic network.

As to who would win in an all out war, I dare say it might simply break down to another all out time war should a Borg drone get to assimilate a Dalek, which would then give them access to the entire Dalek network. Otherwise it'd likely just end with the Dalek's trying to delete the Borg from time once it becomes clear that the Borg keep adapting to their weapons. Or building another Cruicible.

captainrevo1

here is your answer

http://www.fpusadailyplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Dalek_Davros_Borg_Woodward2.jpg

artan42

Borgleks
Daleks have a huge time travel advantage over Borg. Borg have used time travel but Daleks where winning the time war against the bloody TIME Lords.

Temporal Lock Box ultra rare reword, insane Dalek Caan DOFF.

marcusdkane

Awesome feedback, folks Have to admit, I'd rather overlooked those things that might make a Dalek prove worthy of assimilation I do think that if things were to hit the fan, it would indeed be the unstoppable force against the immovable object, and while the Borg could simply assimilate more troops, the Dalek's time travelling shenanigans could indeed be the winning stratagem.

wildthyme467989

artan42 wrote: »

Daleks where winning the time war against the bloody TIME Lords.

There were no winners in The Last Great Time War, everyone lost

hevach

My opinion: Daleks in a first strike, Borg in a prolonged battle.

A successful first strike and the Borg would never exist to begin with, or at least never exist in a form that could fight back. If the first strike fails (whether defeated by the Borg or interference from another time traveler), assimilation would negate the advantage and it would become a full blown time war. And the Borg will have the advantage in overwhelming force and attrition. They won't do things half way - imagine an episode of Dr. Who, except instead of a phone booth it's a fleet of Borg cubes darkening the skies.

Edit: By "successful first strike" I should specify: The Daleks conceal either their existence or at least their intentions and capabilities from the Borg, and their first attack is meant to erase the Borg from time completely without preamble. Nothing smaller scale, just deciding at first glance that anything except a lethal first strike would result in a war of attrition against an enemy designed to win by attrition.

sollvax

Daleks all the way

multiple reasons

1 Dalek cases are made of a material that is (to quote the Doctor) "Nearly impervious to penetration"

2 Daleks are VASTLY more intelligent (individually and as a group)

3 Dalek Nano swarm tech is AIRBORNE and Borg nano tech is Contact

4 Borg can adapt to damage only if the damage is SURVIVED

5 Daleks have literally thousands of weapons

6 Daleks have advanced time and dimensional travel
"You are the First Borg?? EXTERMINATE " Game over

7 Borg are a race of losers (Janeway beat them , piccard beat them , NEELIX can beat them) Daleks are a Race of Winners (other than when facing the Doctor)

8 finally The Daleks come from the OLDER franshise and thus have a larger fan base

artan42

wildthyme467989 wrote: »

There were no winners in The Last Great Time War, everyone lost

Yes but they where winning, plus I can count 3 Time Lords that escaped the Time War (The Doctor, The Master, the Corsair), and Millions of Daleks (Last Dalek, Emperor Dalek, Cult of Skaro, Davros and the Crucible, Pangram Daleks, Genesis ARC Daleks, Dalek Parliament, the Daleks on The Asylum).

hartzilla

The Daleks would win, they bult a bomb that could destroy the universe for pete's sake.

the Borg can't even assimilate an organization their more advanced then, what makes you think they can take one someone MORE advanced than them?

artan42

hartzilla wrote: »

The Daleks would win, they bult a bomb that could destroy the universe for pete's sake.

Not the Universe 'REALITY IT'S SELF' !

qqqqii

The White Rabbit from Monte Python's Quest for the Holy Grail.

marcusdkane

sollvax wrote: »

1 Dalek cases are made of a material that is (to quote the Doctor) "Nearly impervious to penetration"

I believe that Borg assimilation tubules have been described as being able to penetrate almost any substance... Dalek casings can be damaged, and if anything could do so, I believe it would be an assimilation tubule...

sollvax wrote: »

2 Daleks are VASTLY more intelligent (individually and as a group)

I quite agree they are more intelligent, but I don't think that would equate to a tactical advantage..

sollvax wrote: »

3 Dalek Nano swarm tech is AIRBORNE and Borg nano tech is Contact

Blood-borne nanoprobes would assimilate the swarm tech and re-purpose it into additional nanoprobes...

sollvax wrote: »

4 Borg can adapt to damage only if the damage is SURVIVED

How do you mean? In all the instances of Feds on Borg so far, the first few phaser hits have taken down (and killed) individual drones, but within a few hits, the Borg adapt. I think in First Contact, the initial assault on engineering fired less than twelve shots before the drones adapted...

sollvax wrote: »

5 Daleks have literally thousands of weapons

And the Borg could have billions of drones (and more recruits available all the time )

sollvax wrote: »

6 Daleks have advanced time and dimensional travel
"You are the First Borg?? EXTERMINATE " Game over

Yes, that is true, but not really any fun

sollvax wrote: »

7 Borg are a race of losers (Janeway beat them , piccard beat them , NEELIX can beat them) Daleks are a Race of Winners (other than when facing the Doctor)

Only due to dramatic requirements for the Good Guys to win...

sollvax wrote: »

8 finally The Daleks come from the OLDER franshise and thus have a larger fan base

Irrelevant, but lol...

marcusdkane

hartzilla wrote: »

The Daleks would win, they bult a bomb that could destroy the universe for pete's sake.

the Borg can't even assimilate an organization their more advanced then, what makes you think they can take one someone MORE advanced than them?

Only because of dramatic requirements... If the Good Guys didn't have to win, I think that the Federation would've been assimilated long ago (In Trek Years)

wildthyme467989

Considering the Daleks demolished the Cybermen and the Cybermen are currently demolishing the Borg, I don't think the Borg will be a threat at all to the Daleks. It'll just be another chance for the Daleks to perform more "Pest Control"

sollvax

the blood carried nanites can't assimilate a DALEK (the blood of a Dalek is behind several inches of ARMOUR and a self destruct system

Dalek nanoswarm however assimilates on contact

"WE are the BORG (pause) ADVANCE for TOTAL DALEK SUPREMACY"

That fast

artan42

sollvax wrote: »

the blood carried nanites can't assimilate a DALEK (the blood of a Dalek is behind several inches of ARMOUR and a self destruct system

Dalek nanoswarm however assimilates on contact

"WE are the BORG (pause) ADVANCE for TOTAL DALEK SUPREMACY"

That fast

That is indeed if Daleks even have blood.

Comparing the Borg and Daleks is like comparing the Borg to Q, try something more similar, like the Borg vs the Cybermen or Sontarans.

marcusdkane

wildthyme467989 wrote: »

Considering the Daleks demolished the Cybermen and the Cybermen are currently demolishing the Borg, I don't think the Borg will be a threat at all to the Daleks. It'll just be another chance for the Daleks to perform more "Pest Control"

In what reality? Cybermen wouldn't pose much threat to the Borg at all... What've they got? In built energy weapons which the Borg would adapt to within a dozen shots... After that, they would be quickly assimilated...

marcusdkane

sollvax wrote: »

the blood carried nanites can't assimilate a DALEK (the blood of a Dalek is behind several inches of ARMOUR and a self destruct system

Dalek nanoswarm however assimilates on contact

"WE are the BORG (pause) ADVANCE for TOTAL DALEK SUPREMACY"

That fast

Assimilation tubules go through armor... Drones can also use them to interface directly with technology... Even if the initial attack did not reach the Dalek itself, it would not be hard for the drone to simply take over the casing and make it power down, exposing the Dalek inside and then assimilating the Dalek directly...

While I agree the Daleks are powerful and resourceful, I think the Borg are more so, and better equipped to deal with a Dalek one on one, than a Dalek would be to deal with a Borg one on one...

sollvax

Please note the Self destruct

If a Dalek became infected (for a fraction of a second) it would DETONATE

As to the others
The Cybermen ARE the Borg
they are the species the Borg is modeled on and have Exactly the same powers and tech

The Sontarans of course are perfect cloned warriors (they CAN'T be assimilated either)

marcusdkane

sollvax wrote: »

Please note the Self destruct

If a Dalek became infected (for a fraction of a second) it would DETONATE

Would it though? Historically, Daleks have not always detonated, it's only more recently that that facility has become known, and even then, it is not frequently used... There might be a few, but I can't see mass detonations occurring

Another point I forgot to mention in my last reply, is that the Dalek nano swarm takes quite some time for the assimilation process to really get underway. (Hard to tell in 'episode time', but it could be anything from 20 minutes to hours...) Borg nano probes have been shown to begin the assimilation process in minutes, of not seconds (Phlox was lucky...) I think the nanoprobes are simply more efficient than the nano swarm in terms of practical application. Yes, airborne is better than contact, but if contact can counteract airborne, then the airborne becomes a moot point...

sollvax wrote: »

As to the others
The Cybermen ARE the Borg
they are the species the Borg is modeled on and have Exactly the same powers and tech

The Sontarans of course are perfect cloned warriors (they CAN'T be assimilated either)

Do Cybermen have forcefields? If they do, then they may be harder to deal with, but I don't think they do have forcefields...

As for the Sontarans, given 8472's resistance to assimilation, it's reasonable to credit Sontarans with having a similarly resilient immune system. Same as I don't think the Borg would be able to (easily) assimilate an Immortal (as in Highlander)...

artan42

marcusdkane wrote: »

Assimilation tubules go through armor... Drones can also use them to interface directly with technology... Even if the initial attack did not reach the Dalek itself, it would not be hard for the drone to simply take over the casing and make it power down, exposing the Dalek inside and then assimilating the Dalek directly...

While I agree the Daleks are powerful and resourceful, I think the Borg are more so, and better equipped to deal with a Dalek one on one, than a Dalek would be to deal with a Borg one on one...

Wa.. Daleks have death rays:D
I would also appear that Daleks have strength in numbers. Compare the complement of the Flagship with the average population of a cube.

hevach

Even if the Daleks attempted to detonate to avoid assimilation, they wouldn't be the first one to try only to find their self destruct mechanism was already crippled by nanoprobes.

And everybody in the Star Trek universe has death rays. They may not call them death rays, but every spacefaring race is walking around with weapons capable of vaporizing a humanoid, and many have ones that can take out a building at maximum setting or when overloaded. Your average peaceful vessel of exploration is still equipped with an array of doomsday weapons and the ability to improvise more. The Borg don't really care.

marcusdkane

artan42 wrote: »

Wa.. Daleks have death rays:D

You mean 'energy-based weapons which can be adapted to' (usually in less than a dozen shots)

artan42 wrote: »

I would also appear that Daleks have strength in numbers. Compare the complement of the Flagship with the average population of a cube.

I think that translates as 'fresh meat' in the Borg lexicon

artan42

marcusdkane wrote: »

You mean 'energy-based weapons which can be adapted to' (usually in less than a dozen shots)

Can they adapt to machine guns, poison gas, or flamethrowers.

marcusdkane wrote: »

I think that translates as 'fresh meat' in the Borg lexicon

Really! It seems to mean overwhelming defeat to the Borg for me;)

marcusdkane

artan42 wrote: »

Can they adapt to machine guns, poison gas, or flamethrowers.

Indeed they can't, this could get messy

artan42 wrote: »

Really! It seems to mean overwhelming defeat to the Borg for me;)

hevach

Poison gas, yes - their biological components are secondary. Assimilated humans have been seen exposed to extreme heat, radiation, and vacuum.

Fire - we've seen Borg survive fire, but also be destroyed by plasma fires, so limited survival, no evidence of adaptation.

Machine guns - it worked for Picard, but we don't actually know that they can't adapt to bullets. Only two Borg were killed this way, and it was never done again. Even if they could adapt, Picard could have killed several more before they did. The scene only established that a photonic bullet was no different than a real one if the safeties were off.

artan42

Daleks assimilate the Borg Queen, and make the whole collective into an army of Robomen, or hack 'em up and make them into Pig Men, or feed them to the Slither.

marcusdkane

If poison gas isn't an issue (and I agree, drones may not breathe, let alone need to) that would also effectively nullify any risk from the Dalek nano swarm :cool:

artan42

marcusdkane wrote: »

If poison gas isn't an issue (and I agree, drones may not breathe, let alone need to) that would also effectively nullify any risk from the Dalek nano swarm :cool:

But the fact that it's also a mechanical entity it could convert another machine easier than an organic body, so it may not need to be breathed in by the Borg.