Wow, thanks for listening to that comment bort. The fact your open to the idea comes as a bit of a welcome shock. I apologize for some of my sarcasm sent in the direction of this new set. I understand the "fun" factor of it in pve, but I strongly believe its going to further hurt pvp.
He "cares" about this as much as he does about the Inertial Dampeners skill, and Power Insulator skills not working properly. Suffice to say that's a "yes I care I'll look into it" and four months later, still have done a whopping pile of nothing about it.
He "cares" about this as much as he does about the Inertial Dampeners skill, and Power Insulator skills not working properly. Suffice to say that's a "yes I care I'll look into it" and four months later, still have done a whopping pile of nothing about it.
You mistake my optimism at his comment as belief that anything will be done about it
Its more the fact that bort is at least LISTENING to what we have to say. I do believe that like our last pvp dev that bort probably has his hands tied to a lot of whats being released. The fact that he acknowledges our ideas and "says" he's going to look into it is more than we had for a long period of time I like to refer to as the pvp dark ages when no one would pay attention to anything we had to say. Now whether he does or not depends on his character, and only he'll really know the truth of that since we can never really prove whether he fought for the change or not (unless it IS indeed changed).
I guess I'm trying to say thanks to bort for wading into the hostile waters that these forums can be. Hopefully he understands that we've had years of frustration to make these waters so red, but it's good to know we at least are being heard now. The question is, is it too little too late?
There is a doff that gives you +20% resist for yourself when you activate Extend Shields. I think this answers any remaining questions whether anyone at Cryptic cares about balance.
well i guess i'll post this here, seeing as this thread assimilated the other one
i like how the 2 set bonus for the chronno weapons and consoles is like a 4.5% increase in chrono damage, as if the damage dealt by chronos was ever something anyone has ever worried about ever. 4.5? 2 KHG gives 25%, to ALL kinetic!
There is a doff that gives you +20% resist for yourself when you activate Extend Shields. I think this answers any remaining questions whether anyone at Cryptic cares about balance.
He "cares" about this as much as he does about the Inertial Dampeners skill, and Power Insulator skills not working properly. Suffice to say that's a "yes I care I'll look into it" and four months later, still have done a whopping pile of nothing about it.
To be honest I do think he cares. But I also think he is one of the few that does. The disease with pvp starts from the very top, maybe even higher than dstahl. Those ppl should be ashamed of implementing Wall Street scams in this game. You can get lots of revenues by adding pvp value to the game too. I recently looked at my pwe account. I'm really not the compulsive person that must have the latest iPhone, or the latest box ship, and while I like this game, less the scam-like policies and total lack of interest to pvp, I still spent close to 1000 bucks on zen in about 3 months... I'm not bragging (I bet there are people that also pvp and spend lots more), at best I may be a big a$$ hypocrite for criticize a game while spending money for it, what I do want to say though is that pvpers spend money too on this game and they deserve more attention! I travel a lot, and sto fills in the time I would normally watch tv in my hotel room, I also leveled 2 new tunes and that's another reason of getting so many lock box keys (doffs, weapons, etc), bottom line, cryptic, many of us pvpers spend small fortunes on your game, I think it's time to do something more for us other than releasing lock boxes!
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
How much does it cost? I was going to sell some keys, but I guess I'll use them.
Each piece is 200 Lobi. Thankfully I have a bunch of 'em just sitting around. That console is going on any damn ship I fly, that extra flat crit chance alone adds up to a huge DPS increase. I'll go without an extra Field Gen if I have to.
This is what I say, and I think others should say it as well, ban lockbox ships from PVP, period. This will solve most of our problems with pvp. No matter how overpowered or disproportionately advantaged they are ,they will never affect other players. You can cheat the computer all day, it will never complain, but if you dupe players, they will get angry and leave the game or boycott STO all together. The Devs are doing nothing but shrinking the STO fanbase by bringing extrordenary powers to the game. Why can't they make lockbox ships like the normal C-store ships with just a differrent skin, or they can keep their unique power but they can't be immensely superior to regular ships.
For example: its ok for the Jem'Hadar ship to have its "Victory is life", and Antiproton Sweep, but it can't be overpowered and have extra resistance from damage that regular escorts don't have.
Its ok for the Recluse and Orb Weaver to have their web traps and walls but to make them inclined to suck other ships dry is not necessary. PVP is supposed to be for players to fight eachother not suck everyone dry so only he can win with ease.
I can't even touch on the new time ships, without seeing them in action, but from what I'm hearing, it doesn't sound like good news.
If the Devs don't balance out these lockbox ships, then they risk making PVP obsolete.
We won't be using items or doffs as the counter, if we implement one.
LOL... What existing power would realistically counter a temporal effect???
About the only one that sounds somewhat reasonable to me is Science Team, which would be a horrible idea... making one of the most commonly slotted powers in the game a counter would nerf the whole effect.
Yes, it should be resistable somehow... but said resistance shouldn't be a side-effect of some power that a lot of people will equip anyway. The effect will be very rare, the counter should be something players need to make a hard choice to have equipped over something else.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
In a forum where ... I guess a little firing back ist acceptable.
Nope. If anyone's reaction is to "fire back" then they shouldn't respond at all, per forum rules.
Just a reminder... Express and debate opinions, yes. Attack or Counter-Attack in ways specifically forbidden by forum rules, no.
If you feel that anyone has posted content that warrants moderation, please report the offending post via submitting a Forums and Website Ticket (https://support.perfectworld.com/) and one of the moderators will look into the matter further. Report violations, do not quote them or reply to them. Responding to a violation in an inflammatory manner is a violation in itself and will result in appropriate action.
So, in other words... play nice? :rolleyes:
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
lol, we were just talking about P2W and what it's done so far to wreak PVP. Oh well, guess that's a dead player.
Hey Cryptic, I'll pay 50 bucks if everytime I see Mav and Hus, I can 1-shot them from 20m with a heal-boat with no points in weapons. (maybe a console?) rofl (sad, but I don't doubt that's what it's heading to)
What you are more likely to see is Cryptic selling single shot weapons that are guaranteed (or at least nearly so) kills, much like "gold" ammo in WoT.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Since I do a lot of ground PvP, I thought I would put in my opinion on the new ground weapons, the Relativity Phaser Rifle and Pistol.
The rifle: I thought it kinda sucks. Sure, you can slow a guy's movement down and that helps, but it's not definite and it's more like a watered down split beam rifle. Instead of three targets it only hits two. Range is mediocre, so I was finding in Shanty Town that I had to get out of cover more often to get in a decent shot, and that gets you killed. I'll practice with it some more and see if maybe it has a redeemable quality to it, but my first impression of it is that I would not use it.
The pistol: Holy hell... this has the potential to be a scary weapon. The stun setting has a temporal stasis ability which literally traps the person you hit in a bubble, freezing them in place for several seconds. During that time they are immune to everything, so in PvP the PuGs tended to still blaze away at the target and do diddly squat to him. But it does take anyone out of the fight for several seconds. Aim this pistol at the team's strongest threat so you can cut his team down more easily and deal with him later. And if a trained team has these pistols... you can literally shut down the entire enemy team and kill them one by one. Has the potential to be a gamechanger.
Each piece is 200 Lobi. Thankfully I have a bunch of 'em just sitting around. That console is going on any damn ship I fly, that extra flat crit chance alone adds up to a huge DPS increase. I'll go without an extra Field Gen if I have to.
I picked up that Takyokinetic Converter console yesterday.
With my advanced fleet engines [turn]x3 [spd] and the mk XII RCS console (purple), my Tactical Escort Retrofit now turns as well as my B'rel Retrofit (when it's not cloaked).
I'm loving it (along with the crith and critd bonuses).
What you are more likely to see is Cryptic selling single shot weapons that are guaranteed (or at least nearly so) kills, much like "gold" ammo in WoT.
Just make sure we're the 4th target of your Iso Charge. Gauranteed insta pop.
Just make sure we're the 4th target of your Iso Charge. Gauranteed insta pop.
oh indeed it is, with 3 particle gens the 4th deals 25k damage un tac buffed. strike 4 also tries to seek out your original target!
took out an altrox, escort carrier, and a vulcan sci ship flanked by 2 defients just yesterday. i then proceeded to finish off both half dead defiant conventionally, that was their whole team, all annihilated single handedly. this was in about the first 20 seconds of an arena, i wish i had fraps on
Is it pretty easy to get big hits with iso now, or still pretty flukey? Didn't seem as powerful as people are saying when it first came out.
shooting it at carriers as it launched pets is a safe bet. its sorta rare to find a situation were you can use it to its potential though, the bonce range is not large. i tend to not have it equipped unless theres lots of spam. but thats partly because it can be so cheep. its also handy for finishing off someone who is ether about to die, or barely survive, heal and get away.
A few nights ago, I was getting hammered by something that completely knocked out my shields and dropped me to below 25%. Pretty sure it was Isometric Charge, because I kept seeing something big hit me.
Thankfully, I was separated from my team, otherwise we'd have been royally screwed.
Too bad I got no room for one of these consoles. I was going to replace my Field Generator with it, but then I found out about the Takyokinetic Converter.
A few nights ago, I was getting hammered by something that completely knocked out my shields and dropped me to below 25%. Pretty sure it was Isometric Charge, because I kept seeing something big hit me.
Thankfully, I was separated from my team, otherwise we'd have been royally screwed.
Too bad I got no room for one of these consoles. I was going to replace my Field Generator with it, but then I found out about the Takyokinetic Converter.
Dude with the amount of toy consoles flying around I swear I'm eventually going to start cutting into my Tac consoles. The holiest of holies has been breached
Since I do a lot of ground PvP, I thought I would put in my opinion on the new ground weapons, the Relativity Phaser Rifle and Pistol.
The rifle: I thought it kinda sucks. Sure, you can slow a guy's movement down and that helps, but it's not definite and it's more like a watered down split beam rifle. Instead of three targets it only hits two. Range is mediocre, so I was finding in Shanty Town that I had to get out of cover more often to get in a decent shot, and that gets you killed. I'll practice with it some more and see if maybe it has a redeemable quality to it, but my first impression of it is that I would not use it.
The pistol: Holy hell... this has the potential to be a scary weapon. The stun setting has a temporal stasis ability which literally traps the person you hit in a bubble, freezing them in place for several seconds. During that time they are immune to everything, so in PvP the PuGs tended to still blaze away at the target and do diddly squat to him. But it does take anyone out of the fight for several seconds. Aim this pistol at the team's strongest threat so you can cut his team down more easily and deal with him later. And if a trained team has these pistols... you can literally shut down the entire enemy team and kill them one by one. Has the potential to be a gamechanger.
Okay. So please don't shoot me...
But for PvE purposes, I think both are underpowered. For PvP, I think they're underwhelming aside from the pistol effect, made worse by the fact that it seems to be guaranteed to work the first time you use it.
I think the weapons should be buffed up to proper weapons' power levels (maybe just make them flat purple Mk XII weapons with a single Dmg mod to keep them from being the end all be all) and made flashier with a cosmetic beam effect.
Then make the stasis effect a set bonus from carrying both, as something like a 2.5% proc and maybe something extra.
I like the idea of a set bonus that requires two weapons because that eliminates having to worry about any other 3 piece set bonus or its effect on other weapons.
But if those powers are supposed to make up for the weapons being otherwise inferior, well...
It fails with the pistol because someone will save the pistol to use exclusively for its secondary fire. And the rifle isn't worth it.
The energy whip was novel in that it lacked resists. The crystal sword has tons of utility and is a lot of fun.
These new weapons seem to be underpowered and annoying. The power on the pistol is too much for PvP and too situational for anything else. Meanwhile, the damage these things do is laughable and the cosmetic value is low enough to make this a strictly roleplay item.
I tried playing Foundry missions with the pistol, figuring that it would be good for light personal play and it just made everything harder. I reasoned it might be good if I had enough for a full away team but there's no reason to have an away team with a mix of the two weapons. If anything, they have counter synergy since stasis enemies will waste rifle secondary cone shots.
It seems to me like these should be taken back to the drawing board, stripped of their gimmicks, made decent weapons, and the two weapons should have synergy with one another, either via a set bonus or via a reason to want a team outfitted with them that boils down to something more fun for everyone than PvP stunlocking.
What you are more likely to see is Cryptic selling single shot weapons that are guaranteed (or at least nearly so) kills, much like "gold" ammo in WoT.
Well that isn't really true about WOT. The Gold ammo in that game is better than regular yes; but it is hardly as OP as stuff is in STO... not by a longshot.:rolleyes:
Dude with the amount of toy consoles flying around I swear I'm eventually going to start cutting into my Tac consoles. The holiest of holies has been breached
I know what you mean. I toyed with the idea when I get my Fleet Tactical Escort.
I know what you mean. I toyed with the idea when I got my Fleet Tactical Escort.
I did that already on my starcruiser build. eng cruisers don't crank DPS anyway, so the ISO fit right at home there and actually -increased- my overall output and threat level. (well they can crank.. but it's pressure dps. and really a 14 percent difference isn't going to make or break me when I can slap down Heavy Burst with a lucky iso shot.) I ate my other tac console on the ship for my borg console.
I did that already on my starcruiser build. eng cruisers don't crank DPS anyway, so the ISO fit right at home there and actually -increased- my overall output and threat level. (well they can crank.. but it's pressure dps. and really a 14 percent difference isn't going to make or break me when I can slap down Heavy Burst with a lucky iso shot.) I ate my other tac console on the ship for my borg console.
Maor healing, and durability for my eng cruiser.
I'm a tactical officer though, so I feel like I need to dish out as much damage as possible. Even if it's only, probably, a little more DPS (after modifiers, but before buffs).
Comments
He "cares" about this as much as he does about the Inertial Dampeners skill, and Power Insulator skills not working properly. Suffice to say that's a "yes I care I'll look into it" and four months later, still have done a whopping pile of nothing about it.
You mistake my optimism at his comment as belief that anything will be done about it
Its more the fact that bort is at least LISTENING to what we have to say. I do believe that like our last pvp dev that bort probably has his hands tied to a lot of whats being released. The fact that he acknowledges our ideas and "says" he's going to look into it is more than we had for a long period of time I like to refer to as the pvp dark ages when no one would pay attention to anything we had to say. Now whether he does or not depends on his character, and only he'll really know the truth of that since we can never really prove whether he fought for the change or not (unless it IS indeed changed).
I guess I'm trying to say thanks to bort for wading into the hostile waters that these forums can be. Hopefully he understands that we've had years of frustration to make these waters so red, but it's good to know we at least are being heard now. The question is, is it too little too late?
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
tomorrow, the whole pvp section will be merged into one thread since really, all the threads are "about" pvp;)
i like how the 2 set bonus for the chronno weapons and consoles is like a 4.5% increase in chrono damage, as if the damage dealt by chronos was ever something anyone has ever worried about ever. 4.5? 2 KHG gives 25%, to ALL kinetic!
thats one of the new doffs? :eek:
http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/3595-i-dont-want-to-live-on-this-planet-anymore.jpg
To be honest I do think he cares. But I also think he is one of the few that does. The disease with pvp starts from the very top, maybe even higher than dstahl. Those ppl should be ashamed of implementing Wall Street scams in this game. You can get lots of revenues by adding pvp value to the game too. I recently looked at my pwe account. I'm really not the compulsive person that must have the latest iPhone, or the latest box ship, and while I like this game, less the scam-like policies and total lack of interest to pvp, I still spent close to 1000 bucks on zen in about 3 months... I'm not bragging (I bet there are people that also pvp and spend lots more), at best I may be a big a$$ hypocrite for criticize a game while spending money for it, what I do want to say though is that pvpers spend money too on this game and they deserve more attention! I travel a lot, and sto fills in the time I would normally watch tv in my hotel room, I also leveled 2 new tunes and that's another reason of getting so many lock box keys (doffs, weapons, etc), bottom line, cryptic, many of us pvpers spend small fortunes on your game, I think it's time to do something more for us other than releasing lock boxes!
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Each piece is 200 Lobi. Thankfully I have a bunch of 'em just sitting around. That console is going on any damn ship I fly, that extra flat crit chance alone adds up to a huge DPS increase. I'll go without an extra Field Gen if I have to.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
For example: its ok for the Jem'Hadar ship to have its "Victory is life", and Antiproton Sweep, but it can't be overpowered and have extra resistance from damage that regular escorts don't have.
Its ok for the Recluse and Orb Weaver to have their web traps and walls but to make them inclined to suck other ships dry is not necessary. PVP is supposed to be for players to fight eachother not suck everyone dry so only he can win with ease.
I can't even touch on the new time ships, without seeing them in action, but from what I'm hearing, it doesn't sound like good news.
If the Devs don't balance out these lockbox ships, then they risk making PVP obsolete.
LOL... What existing power would realistically counter a temporal effect???
About the only one that sounds somewhat reasonable to me is Science Team, which would be a horrible idea... making one of the most commonly slotted powers in the game a counter would nerf the whole effect.
Yes, it should be resistable somehow... but said resistance shouldn't be a side-effect of some power that a lot of people will equip anyway. The effect will be very rare, the counter should be something players need to make a hard choice to have equipped over something else.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Nope. If anyone's reaction is to "fire back" then they shouldn't respond at all, per forum rules.
Just a reminder... Express and debate opinions, yes. Attack or Counter-Attack in ways specifically forbidden by forum rules, no.
If you feel that anyone has posted content that warrants moderation, please report the offending post via submitting a Forums and Website Ticket (https://support.perfectworld.com/) and one of the moderators will look into the matter further. Report violations, do not quote them or reply to them. Responding to a violation in an inflammatory manner is a violation in itself and will result in appropriate action.
So, in other words... play nice? :rolleyes:
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
What you are more likely to see is Cryptic selling single shot weapons that are guaranteed (or at least nearly so) kills, much like "gold" ammo in WoT.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
The rifle: I thought it kinda sucks. Sure, you can slow a guy's movement down and that helps, but it's not definite and it's more like a watered down split beam rifle. Instead of three targets it only hits two. Range is mediocre, so I was finding in Shanty Town that I had to get out of cover more often to get in a decent shot, and that gets you killed. I'll practice with it some more and see if maybe it has a redeemable quality to it, but my first impression of it is that I would not use it.
The pistol: Holy hell... this has the potential to be a scary weapon. The stun setting has a temporal stasis ability which literally traps the person you hit in a bubble, freezing them in place for several seconds. During that time they are immune to everything, so in PvP the PuGs tended to still blaze away at the target and do diddly squat to him. But it does take anyone out of the fight for several seconds. Aim this pistol at the team's strongest threat so you can cut his team down more easily and deal with him later. And if a trained team has these pistols... you can literally shut down the entire enemy team and kill them one by one. Has the potential to be a gamechanger.
With my advanced fleet engines [turn]x3 [spd] and the mk XII RCS console (purple), my Tactical Escort Retrofit now turns as well as my B'rel Retrofit (when it's not cloaked).
I'm loving it (along with the crith and critd bonuses).
Just make sure we're the 4th target of your Iso Charge. Gauranteed insta pop.
oh indeed it is, with 3 particle gens the 4th deals 25k damage un tac buffed. strike 4 also tries to seek out your original target!
took out an altrox, escort carrier, and a vulcan sci ship flanked by 2 defients just yesterday. i then proceeded to finish off both half dead defiant conventionally, that was their whole team, all annihilated single handedly. this was in about the first 20 seconds of an arena, i wish i had fraps on
I spent my first night with it one shotting people if that gives you an idea.
shooting it at carriers as it launched pets is a safe bet. its sorta rare to find a situation were you can use it to its potential though, the bonce range is not large. i tend to not have it equipped unless theres lots of spam. but thats partly because it can be so cheep. its also handy for finishing off someone who is ether about to die, or barely survive, heal and get away.
Thankfully, I was separated from my team, otherwise we'd have been royally screwed.
Too bad I got no room for one of these consoles. I was going to replace my Field Generator with it, but then I found out about the Takyokinetic Converter.
Dude with the amount of toy consoles flying around I swear I'm eventually going to start cutting into my Tac consoles. The holiest of holies has been breached
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Okay. So please don't shoot me...
But for PvE purposes, I think both are underpowered. For PvP, I think they're underwhelming aside from the pistol effect, made worse by the fact that it seems to be guaranteed to work the first time you use it.
I think the weapons should be buffed up to proper weapons' power levels (maybe just make them flat purple Mk XII weapons with a single Dmg mod to keep them from being the end all be all) and made flashier with a cosmetic beam effect.
Then make the stasis effect a set bonus from carrying both, as something like a 2.5% proc and maybe something extra.
I like the idea of a set bonus that requires two weapons because that eliminates having to worry about any other 3 piece set bonus or its effect on other weapons.
But if those powers are supposed to make up for the weapons being otherwise inferior, well...
It fails with the pistol because someone will save the pistol to use exclusively for its secondary fire. And the rifle isn't worth it.
The energy whip was novel in that it lacked resists. The crystal sword has tons of utility and is a lot of fun.
These new weapons seem to be underpowered and annoying. The power on the pistol is too much for PvP and too situational for anything else. Meanwhile, the damage these things do is laughable and the cosmetic value is low enough to make this a strictly roleplay item.
I tried playing Foundry missions with the pistol, figuring that it would be good for light personal play and it just made everything harder. I reasoned it might be good if I had enough for a full away team but there's no reason to have an away team with a mix of the two weapons. If anything, they have counter synergy since stasis enemies will waste rifle secondary cone shots.
It seems to me like these should be taken back to the drawing board, stripped of their gimmicks, made decent weapons, and the two weapons should have synergy with one another, either via a set bonus or via a reason to want a team outfitted with them that boils down to something more fun for everyone than PvP stunlocking.
Well that isn't really true about WOT. The Gold ammo in that game is better than regular yes; but it is hardly as OP as stuff is in STO... not by a longshot.:rolleyes:
I did that already on my starcruiser build. eng cruisers don't crank DPS anyway, so the ISO fit right at home there and actually -increased- my overall output and threat level. (well they can crank.. but it's pressure dps. and really a 14 percent difference isn't going to make or break me when I can slap down Heavy Burst with a lucky iso shot.) I ate my other tac console on the ship for my borg console.
Maor healing, and durability for my eng cruiser.