I do have an ego. Your point? Are you going to put your money where your mouth is or not? If not can you stop thread crapping and go away?
For the record, I'm dirt poor in STO. I don't stray very far from PvP and the rewards are pretty diminutive. As a whole though, the Pandas have more than enough resources to throw around to field teams chock full with whatever ungodly, broken toys Cryptic comes up with.
I also love the fact that people don't think we don't PvP and that we don't see the impact of powers like you do. That statement is so far from the truth. Its why YOU DON'T see us in the public queues because the hard core PvP community is usually using something to their over advantage to get kills or spaming something that is way more overpowered than a simple .5% buff stripping doff. The dev already stated the math to the proc which I don't view as a threat but apparently you do. As soon as something comes along that can break their "all powerfull" build, they whine. Well if you can't learn to adapt to the ever changing stating of the game, which Cryptic themselves state "Its an ever changing environment that is alive..." or something, then I feel nothing but sorrow for you.
I promised myself I won't reply to your threads bc it's pointless, but can't help not saying something, for the rest of pveers that have some comprehension and senses in them.
If you and your fleet would be able to ADAPT and adopt strategies, as you guys just stated few posts above, then I don't see the reason of not going in public queues or asking for fleet vs fleet matches. Unless you are just defending the crutch that you use to compensate the lack of adaptation and strategies. I have nothing against your fleet, but everything you guys stated puts a bad stain on the name of your fleet, from pvp point of view. Chicken out from queues or premades, sustaining absurd things such as adapt to pvp when you obviously can't adapt since you hide from serious matches, claiming you guys know it all, having such stupid ego that won't let you see the real problem... I bet you are one of the heroes from thissler movies, lol. Scramble (edit: jam not scramble) sensors, lol, that buys you 5 secs and then you're my next target (and my team mates target) till match ends, and I'll explain why: whoever wastes a useful sci skill with jam sensors, has no idea about how to pvp, thus is an easy kill. Same goes with aceton beam and boarding parties that you guys so proudly mentioned.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Scramble sensors, lol, that buys you 5 secs and then you're my next target (and my team mates target) till match ends, and I'll explain why: whoever wastes a useful sci skill with scramble, has no idea about how to pvp, thus is an easy kill. Same goes with aceton beam and boarding parties that you guys so proudly mentioned.
As much as I think scramble is in a weak state currently, I'm pretty sure you meant to say jam sensors
I promised myself I won't reply to your threads bc it's pointless, but can't help not saying something, for the rest of pveers that have some comprehension and senses in them.
If you and your fleet would be able to ADAPT and adopt strategies, as you guys just stated few posts above, then I don't see the reason of not going in public queues or asking for fleet vs fleet matches. Unless you are just defending the crutch that you use to compensate the lack of adaptation and strategies. I have nothing against your fleet, but everything you guys stated puts a bad stain on the name of your fleet, from pvp point of view. Chicken out from queues or premades, sustaining absurd things such as adapt to pvp when you obviously can't adapt since you hide from serious matches, claiming you guys know it all, having such stupid ego that won't let you see the real problem... I bet you are one of the heroes from thissler movies, lol. Scramble sensors, lol, that buys you 5 secs and then you're my next target (and my team mates target) till match ends, and I'll explain why: whoever wastes a useful sci skill with scramble, has no idea about how to pvp, thus is an easy kill. Same goes with aceton beam and boarding parties that you guys so proudly mentioned.
Honestly, I don't care what you or the PvP community thinks of us. If that would be all we have to worry about then we would be living the dream. But no, we have to worry about game killers that say themselves they are trying to prevent game killers. Kinda ironic.
I have nothing personal against anyone here. What I do have a problem with is how the PvP community controls the fate of this game.
Again, the irony in your statements... I don't know how many times I have stated we are not a hard core PvP fleet. We enjoy our balanced PvP as much as the next guy hence why we stay out of public queues. Yes, we can adapt, we can change, but why bother against a hard core PvP team that literally knows every exploit of every power that they claim themselves are overpowered.
This is a pointless argument for both of us. You can stay wrapped up in your little warped version of the game and I will stay in mine. Lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that. If you wish to have an intelligent conversation with me, PM me...
And to my last post, when my fleet does do this PvP, I will bow to the other team for a 15-0 score, or whoever wins the match, but I won't concede my opinion.
Post the screenshot when you are done. I have no doubt it will be 15 - 0, Pandas.
Any lay person or PvEer will look at the stats of the doff and say "that's no problem". Anyone who is a serious pvper in premades and in the queues sees why this is going to be a horrendous problem.
Jorf please take a regular team to beat them 15 -0 then take an SNB doffed team to show they exactly why it's an issue. The second match will last about 3 minutes I would guess. With a full rack of SNB doffs you don't even need any Sci captains at all. It's that potent.
Again I would suggest that SNB doffs reduce the cooldown of SNB on sci captains, just like attack pattern doffs. PVE doesn't care, and even the folks that have them understand how bad cheap snb doffs are for the game. The issue is not ONE player, the issue is FIVE players shooting at one target.
Honestly, I don't care what you or the PvP community thinks of us. If that would be all we have to worry about then we would be living the dream. But no, we have to worry about game killers that say themselves they are trying to prevent game killers. Kinda ironic.
I have nothing personal against anyone here. What I do have a problem with is how the PvP community controls the fate of this game.
Again, the irony in your statements... STUFF ...
IIRC:
PvP didn't want spam, yet carriers and carrier escort even is here.
PvP didn't want C-Store ships, esp. those w/advantages over in game ships (pre p2w), yet they're here and they have gambling lotto ships now too.
PvP didn't want P2W consoles, yet they're here and now you have Feds w/iso charge and KDF w/ams via gambling boxes.
PvP hasn't had any devoted Dev time nor managed project developed.
PvPers pointed out broken and OP doffs from the beginning of the year and last I checked some of them still double tick.
The Mgt has even stated they don't want PvP, the game wasn't build for PvP.
We can't even earn fleet currancy from PvPing as a Fleet.
This game is the anti PvP. Quite frankly it's pretty much anti PvE now too. It's just 1 big money grabbing gambling grind fest w/Star Trek skins, enjoy.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Again I would suggest that SNB doffs reduce the cooldown of SNB on sci captains, just like attack pattern doffs. PVE doesn't care, and even the folks that have them understand how bad cheap snb doffs are for the game. The issue is not ONE player, the issue is FIVE players shooting at one target.
And what would happen to all the tacs and engis that have 3 very expensive bound doffs they can't use ? hehe
Have any of you even read the most recent state of the game? More PVP is coming...
From the State of the Game Sept. 21 2012
PvP
It is no secret that PvP in STO has suffered from a lack of development effort. This has been a shame because it could become a much more compelling aspect of the game as whole. The storyline behind the game pits the Federation against the Klingon Empire in a state of war, and yet the PvP doesn't reflect the conflict in a meaningful way. Territorial gameplay or iPvP matches would go a long way towards improving this part of the game.
I see nothing here other than someone musing about a mode that would, maybe, possibly be attractive to people who PvP. That still does nothing to address the major problems in the game when it comes to transitioning to PvP from PvE, nor the problems that are present w/ regards to the relative uselessness of Engineers or the underwhelming Debuffing abilities of Science Powers.
Here are some of the things we're working on for the next 6 months:
New Personal Advancement System with Reputation based personal projects
New Embassy Fleet Holding with related projects and rewards
Several new 5 and 20 man Fleet Events some of which are cross-faction team-able New Max Level Sector with Daily Patrols
New Romulan Colony "Adventure Zone" ? our biggest to date ? includes BOFF gameplay
Into the Hive STF ? Finally fight the Borg Queen
New Ships including the Vesta class
New Duty Officer Pack
New Loot
New Foundry Spotlight feature
New Foundry assets
UI improvements including the Queues
Updated Winter Event
3 Year Anniversary Event
Bolded the only thing that looks like it will expand PvP in a way that could actually be meaningful and provide a reason to partake in it for people who're not simply interested in constantly pushing the limits of their ship's capabilities versus other players.
Have any of you even read the most recent state of the game? More PVP is coming...
Yea, but dstahl never said when that's gonna happen, lol. It can be in 10 years, or at some point when his nephew works at cryptic and even if my eyes would be still good, my Parkinson's wont allow me to hold the mouse still for more than half a second...
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
SNB Doffs are scary. Especially with more people using them..
In Player vs Player, already the Engineer has taken a back seat since it's buffs and abilites usefullness are replacable with a Science captian instead.
If the SNB Doffs become cheap enough, you could then just replace both Science and Engineers in PVP With Tacs. Where the only Captain viable is Tactical.
I see a major problem with that in it's self.
What's that you Player vs Environment players say? Engineers and Scis would still be Viable? How? Because an Engineer could give an EPS? EPS is helpful, but it isn't a defense against Subsystem Drain, like it really should be (Polaron Weapons, Energy Siphons, Siphon Drones, Tyken's Rift).
What? A science captian would still have SNB? And other skills to make it useful? True, a Science captian would still be useful for the better timed SNB combined with SNB Doffs. Sensor Scan would also help with a Damage resistance Debuff it provides that can be removed with Science team. And the Energy damage resistance bubble is also useful. Photonic Fleet is only mildly useful as spam and perhaps procs or extra kinetic damage.
But honestly all that pales in compairson to Tactical officers with the ability to buff strip. Sure it's not a timable effect, (Unless there's a bug) where you can decide when to strip buffs like a Science officer can, but given the fact that as a Tactical officer your good in any ship and your buffs help the team all the time, even if they are mostly helping your self since you are contributing more damage regardless to the ship your flying, there is nothing that a Tac with SNB Doffs can do that a Sci can't do at that point. Al though a Sci with SNB Doffs is even scarrier, they won't have the DPS with out their Sensor Scan. But a tac has more toys to buff their damage which is why they are so versitile.
Also, I have not heard of anything stoping the Proc. If I recall correctly, nothing stops Subnuc as it is. Sure a Science team will protect against the Timer delay, but NOTHING stops the buff strip. So if that's the case, it's safe to assume that Nothing stops the SNB Doff proc. Also, even if science team did protect against SNB or the SNB Doff, it would only protect against it for 5 seconds. That's hardly enough time to be effective as a counter.
Borticus, once again you are welcomed and thanked for coming to assist a problem that you have noticed, even if this problem effects PVP MORE then pvp at this time. But of course if this doesn't get resolved, and new missions, or new enemies come out that are custom built that a Sci or SNB Doffs actually help against, I don't think Cryptic would want them to be too easy.
Out of the two options given, I like the first one because it reduces how strong the SNB Doffs actually are. Instead of stripping all buffs, they only strip a portion of them. (BTW, PLEASE Take a look at Victory is Life from the Jem'Hadar 3 Peice set bonus.. That does not even trigger last I've witnessed, only mentioned because it is an SNB effect) The second choice feels like how Phaser Procs used to be, I think, where when one proc hit you couldn't get another proc to fire for X seconds. Honestly, I almost like the Idea of both together. But I guess you would only need the timer if it's actually doing something as powerful as stripping all buffs, compared to only 1-3...
Now to Jeremy or Blznfun or what ever you prefer to call your self. I consider my self apart of the PVP community at large. And I don't want to do things to ruin the fun in PVE. While I would prefer some missions to use better AI's and Environmental effects to provide with more challanges then are currently provided for in PVE, I defintely don't feel that PVE content it's self should be nerfed.
How ever, when something in PVE is also hurting PVP, or both, then it should be looked at. While the SNB doffs don't currently effect PVE in any real valuable way, think about the future. Imagine if into the Hive's space portion (if any) had a pair of spheres that actually provided buffs to a tac cube to make it harder. Buffs that could be stripped by a Sci and it was planned that even though they could be stripped by a Sci, that only happens every X seconds so the buffs could eaisly be reapplied to keep the fight challenging but not impossible.
Change out that Sci for 5 Tacs with 3 SNB Doffs and that same fight now changes to something more akin to a cake walk then a challange and making all that time and effort put in to make it a fun experience something used instead to grind Dilithium. You and your fleet mates don't want that. I don't want that.
So please before you bash the PVP Community for wanting balances put in for new or even older releases to the game, try to remember that we also want to make sure the game is fun for everyone. Not just our selves. This includes but is not limited to eliminating Exploitable Bugs, Crashes, and overpowered items and/or abilities.
Thank you, if you took the time to read the entire post above, for reading it. ~Teapower/Web/Kilaw
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
SNB Doffs are scary. Especially with more people using them..
In Player vs Player, already the Engineer has taken a back seat since it's buffs and abilites usefullness are replacable with a Science captian instead.
If the SNB Doffs become cheap enough, you could then just replace both Science and Engineers in PVP With Tacs. Where the only Captain viable is Tactical.
I see a major problem with that in it's self.
What's that you Player vs Environment players say? Engineers and Scis would still be Viable? How? Because an Engineer could give an EPS? EPS is helpful, but it isn't a defense against Subsystem Drain, like it really should be (Polaron Weapons, Energy Siphons, Siphon Drones, Tyken's Rift).
What? A science captian would still have SNB? And other skills to make it useful? True, a Science captian would still be useful for the better timed SNB combined with SNB Doffs. Sensor Scan would also help with a Damage resistance Debuff it provides that can be removed with Science team. And the Energy damage resistance bubble is also useful. Photonic Fleet is only mildly useful as spam and perhaps procs or extra kinetic damage.
But honestly all that pales in compairson to Tactical officers with the ability to buff strip. Sure it's not a timable effect, (Unless there's a bug) where you can decide when to strip buffs like a Science officer can, but given the fact that as a Tactical officer your good in any ship and your buffs help the team all the time, even if they are mostly helping your self since you are contributing more damage regardless to the ship your flying, there is nothing that a Tac with SNB Doffs can do that a Sci can't do at that point. Al though a Sci with SNB Doffs is even scarrier, they won't have the DPS with out their Sensor Scan. But a tac has more toys to buff their damage which is why they are so versitile.
Also, I have not heard of anything stoping the Proc. If I recall correctly, nothing stops Subnuc as it is. Sure a Science team will protect against the Timer delay, but NOTHING stops the buff strip. So if that's the case, it's safe to assume that Nothing stops the SNB Doff proc. Also, even if science team did protect against SNB or the SNB Doff, it would only protect against it for 5 seconds. That's hardly enough time to be effective as a counter.
Borticus, once again you are welcomed and thanked for coming to assist a problem that you have noticed, even if this problem effects PVP MORE then pvp at this time. But of course if this doesn't get resolved, and new missions, or new enemies come out that are custom built that a Sci or SNB Doffs actually help against, I don't think Cryptic would want them to be too easy.
Out of the two options given, I like the first one because it reduces how strong the SNB Doffs actually are. Instead of stripping all buffs, they only strip a portion of them. (BTW, PLEASE Take a look at Victory is Life from the Jem'Hadar 3 Peice set bonus.. That does not even trigger last I've witnessed, only mentioned because it is an SNB effect) The second choice feels like how Phaser Procs used to be, I think, where when one proc hit you couldn't get another proc to fire for X seconds. Honestly, I almost like the Idea of both together. But I guess you would only need the timer if it's actually doing something as powerful as stripping all buffs, compared to only 1-3...
Now to Jeremy or Blznfun or what ever you prefer to call your self. I consider my self apart of the PVP community at large. And I don't want to do things to ruin the fun in PVE. While I would prefer some missions to use better AI's and Environmental effects to provide with more challanges then are currently provided for in PVE, I defintely don't feel that PVE content it's self should be nerfed.
How ever, when something in PVE is also hurting PVP, or both, then it should be looked at. While the SNB doffs don't currently effect PVE in any real valuable way, think about the future. Imagine if into the Hive's space portion (if any) had a pair of spheres that actually provided buffs to a tac cube to make it harder. Buffs that could be stripped by a Sci and it was planned that even though they could be stripped by a Sci, that only happens every X seconds so the buffs could eaisly be reapplied to keep the fight challenging but not impossible.
Change out that Sci for 5 Tacs with 3 SNB Doffs and that same fight now changes to something more akin to a cake walk then a challange and making all that time and effort put in to make it a fun experience something used instead to grind Dilithium. You and your fleet mates don't want that. I don't want that.
So please before you bash the PVP Community for wanting balances put in for new or even older releases to the game, try to remember that we also want to make sure the game is fun for everyone. Not just our selves. This includes but is not limited to eliminating Exploitable Bugs, Crashes, and overpowered items and/or abilities.
Thank you, if you took the time to read the entire post above, for reading it. ~Teapower/Web/Kilaw
Don't forget that players will now be able to extend enemy cooldowns with a set bonus. Combine that with SNB Doffs and any captain type will be a replacement for sci. As you say, there wouldn't be any reason to fly anything other than Tac.
Jorf's idea about the CD increase would work, but i bet that would interfere with the Time ship lockbox content, so...... not going to happen
I suggest everybody takes a big chill pill, or switches games asap, this Dev team will never balance the game, it is simply beyond their capacity to do so, and not in their interest. It doesn't matter what STahl promises, or how many times BOrt posts in here, just look at their actions, and get used to the fact that more of the same is going to be the way of the future. If that no longer warrants interest in STO, I'd suggest you saddle up your Mech, or whatever pvp game strikes your fancy. It will be a far less frustrating experience then this.
@ all the Phaserprocs have a counter crowd. Too lazy to post the math for how many system offline procs can be on the same target in what time. If you can clear them all by your eng teams, fine. I see no problem why you just don't reapply your buffs after the SNB procced then as well. SO no real problem here i guess.....oh right it doesn't work because of CDs.
Don't forget that players will now be able to extend enemy cooldowns with a set bonus. Combine that with SNB Doffs and any captain type will be a replacement for sci. As you say, there wouldn't be any reason to fly anything other than Tac.
Eng are already useless, let's just speed it up and get on with it. All hail Tac
But what should the entire game get nerfed just because you have slight ability to completely shut someone down...
Nobody is talking about nerfing the entire game. We're talking about adjusting the ability of a single doff that has nothing to do with PvE. This doff does not affect the entire game to begin with. Nobody that I know uses it for PvE because there are 50 better doffs for that purpose. Its only use is for PvP, and as such, it has the ability throw a game completely out of balance if a full team is using this doff. I don't even know why a PvE'er would have anything to say about this at all. What exactly are you trying to accomplish by promoting imbalance?
What exactly are you trying to accomplish by promoting imbalance?
After reading this whole thread - especially the comments made by members of the 106th fleet - I guess the answer for that question is obvious:
They have a warped view of what balance means.
They want to win. But they lack the skills. And they seem to be mad at people who have at least some clue how to play. SNB DOFFs now are their hope to exert revenge on all the mean people who are using OP stuff like team play.
Why bother learning to do team PVP? Just equip 15 SNB DOFFs on your team and there you go.
Dear 106th fleet, equipping SNB DOFFs has nothing to do with skill. There are just a substitute, an ersatz for skill if you will.
To be honest, I am not worried about players like you guys from the 106th. You won't win against a half-decent pugmade even if you're running SNB DOFFs.
What bothers me though are PVP fleets who rely on that SNB DOFF bullcrap to win matches.
It is funny in a way. There are PVP people out there who are defending their use of SNB DOFFs.
Or at least belittling the effectiveness of those DOFFs, yet they use them.
Me and one other guy were using these all day today in the public queues and we didn't notice A SINGLE game changing effect that those who posted before me are claiming.
Ok... but then you say this....
I think it boils down to it now gives a chance to some of the less experienced PvP'ers out there and actually makes it fun for them now where as it wasn't before...
Yeah, it now gives a skilled player or not a chance to beat the most skilled players and their teams because the Duty officer ability is total BS. Do you even want to see us PVP vets start to use these things on our premade teams? You will cry so hard! SO HARD! :rolleyes:
After reading this whole thread - especially the comments made by members of the 106th fleet - I guess the answer for that question is obvious:
The correct answer is they probably spent a ****ton on those doffs when they were extremely rare and expensive, and now they don't want them nerfed. :P
Yeah, it now gives a skilled player or not a chance to beat the most skilled players and their teams because the Duty officer ability is total BS. Do you even want to see us PVP vets start to use these things on our premade teams? You will cry so hard! SO HARD! :rolleyes:
They stated that the only pvp they have is only an "extensive testing" inner fleet pvp fest with jam sensors, aceton beam and boarding parties, they don't realize there is a bad and mean world outside that bubble... No wonder pve is so "hard"...
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
They stated that the only pvp they have is only an "extensive testing" inner fleet pvp fest with jam sensors, aceton beam and boarding parties, they don't realize there is a bad and mean world outside that bubble... No wonder pve is so "hard"...
Oh... well i'm putting him on my ignore list then. :eek:
Originally Posted by hurleybird
Ok guys, I figured it out. Cryptic just applied the wrong portion of the SNB power to the doff proc.
Get rid of the buff striping effect entirely, and replace it with the less powerful increase cooldown effect. Maybe up the proc rate a tad.
The doff would still have a place in PvP, mainly to eat up the enemy team's ST pool and make them more vulnerable to real SNBs and debuffs.
I so want in on this Reading Galilleo's posts makes my mouth water at the thought of how easy this match will be.
Oh... I want to spectate that match!!! Or... maybe you guys can video it to U-Tube.
It would still be pretty worhtless in PvE, but at least you would be able to see the debuff on the enemy which could make it feel more useful. As it stands, the current iteration is probably going to go entirely unnoticed vs. NPCs.
Total win Idea right here ^^^^^
Also, ST should clear the cool-down de-buff!!!! That will make everything fair IMO!!!!
Problem is: One community's OP maybe another community's underpowered. Boarding party can actually be very annoying when timed rightly, for example (vs ships that only can support one tac team).
The larger the community, the smaller the chance that misperceptions occur, but only if the culture if open for disagreement and open debate.
Regarding the subnuc doffs, well... there is a counter to subnuc and its lookalikes.
First a healboat usually has faw. And if not a friend would lend a hand with a tt. Not a big deal.
Agree with expanding the community, and helping new members get better, but when you get hate messages/posts that accuse you of trying to ruin pve, you really don't want to talk to that person anymore. One thing to have a reasonable argument, another one is to stick to your point just bc you're too stubborn to see the truth.
If you mean sci team as a counter, that's only a partial counter to increased cool downs and only applies to sci Cpt subnuc. Doffs don't have any counters since they only clean you up of any buffs you have.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Comments
For the record, I'm dirt poor in STO. I don't stray very far from PvP and the rewards are pretty diminutive. As a whole though, the Pandas have more than enough resources to throw around to field teams chock full with whatever ungodly, broken toys Cryptic comes up with.
I promised myself I won't reply to your threads bc it's pointless, but can't help not saying something, for the rest of pveers that have some comprehension and senses in them.
If you and your fleet would be able to ADAPT and adopt strategies, as you guys just stated few posts above, then I don't see the reason of not going in public queues or asking for fleet vs fleet matches. Unless you are just defending the crutch that you use to compensate the lack of adaptation and strategies. I have nothing against your fleet, but everything you guys stated puts a bad stain on the name of your fleet, from pvp point of view. Chicken out from queues or premades, sustaining absurd things such as adapt to pvp when you obviously can't adapt since you hide from serious matches, claiming you guys know it all, having such stupid ego that won't let you see the real problem... I bet you are one of the heroes from thissler movies, lol. Scramble (edit: jam not scramble) sensors, lol, that buys you 5 secs and then you're my next target (and my team mates target) till match ends, and I'll explain why: whoever wastes a useful sci skill with jam sensors, has no idea about how to pvp, thus is an easy kill. Same goes with aceton beam and boarding parties that you guys so proudly mentioned.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
As much as I think scramble is in a weak state currently, I'm pretty sure you meant to say jam sensors
Galilleos - 106th Fleet
Honestly, I don't care what you or the PvP community thinks of us. If that would be all we have to worry about then we would be living the dream. But no, we have to worry about game killers that say themselves they are trying to prevent game killers. Kinda ironic.
I have nothing personal against anyone here. What I do have a problem with is how the PvP community controls the fate of this game.
Again, the irony in your statements... I don't know how many times I have stated we are not a hard core PvP fleet. We enjoy our balanced PvP as much as the next guy hence why we stay out of public queues. Yes, we can adapt, we can change, but why bother against a hard core PvP team that literally knows every exploit of every power that they claim themselves are overpowered.
This is a pointless argument for both of us. You can stay wrapped up in your little warped version of the game and I will stay in mine. Lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that. If you wish to have an intelligent conversation with me, PM me...
And to my last post, when my fleet does do this PvP, I will bow to the other team for a 15-0 score, or whoever wins the match, but I won't concede my opinion.
=/\= 106th Fleet =/\=
Website | Fleet Charter | Mission Statement | Forums | Join | F.A.Q.
Original Handle: the_orig_jean_luc_picard
Mea culpa, I corrected the post.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Any lay person or PvEer will look at the stats of the doff and say "that's no problem". Anyone who is a serious pvper in premades and in the queues sees why this is going to be a horrendous problem.
Jorf please take a regular team to beat them 15 -0 then take an SNB doffed team to show they exactly why it's an issue. The second match will last about 3 minutes I would guess. With a full rack of SNB doffs you don't even need any Sci captains at all. It's that potent.
Again I would suggest that SNB doffs reduce the cooldown of SNB on sci captains, just like attack pattern doffs. PVE doesn't care, and even the folks that have them understand how bad cheap snb doffs are for the game. The issue is not ONE player, the issue is FIVE players shooting at one target.
IIRC:
PvP didn't want spam, yet carriers and carrier escort even is here.
PvP didn't want C-Store ships, esp. those w/advantages over in game ships (pre p2w), yet they're here and they have gambling lotto ships now too.
PvP didn't want P2W consoles, yet they're here and now you have Feds w/iso charge and KDF w/ams via gambling boxes.
PvP hasn't had any devoted Dev time nor managed project developed.
PvPers pointed out broken and OP doffs from the beginning of the year and last I checked some of them still double tick.
The Mgt has even stated they don't want PvP, the game wasn't build for PvP.
We can't even earn fleet currancy from PvPing as a Fleet.
This game is the anti PvP. Quite frankly it's pretty much anti PvE now too. It's just 1 big money grabbing gambling grind fest w/Star Trek skins, enjoy.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
And what would happen to all the tacs and engis that have 3 very expensive bound doffs they can't use ?
We've heard that since launch. No, it's not coming. Dstahl has never been truthful to the PvP community.
From the State of the Game Sept. 21 2012
I see nothing here other than someone musing about a mode that would, maybe, possibly be attractive to people who PvP. That still does nothing to address the major problems in the game when it comes to transitioning to PvP from PvE, nor the problems that are present w/ regards to the relative uselessness of Engineers or the underwhelming Debuffing abilities of Science Powers.
Bolded the only thing that looks like it will expand PvP in a way that could actually be meaningful and provide a reason to partake in it for people who're not simply interested in constantly pushing the limits of their ship's capabilities versus other players.
Yea, but dstahl never said when that's gonna happen, lol. It can be in 10 years, or at some point when his nephew works at cryptic and even if my eyes would be still good, my Parkinson's wont allow me to hold the mouse still for more than half a second...
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Then just post your feedback and what will be, will be. Less QQ more pewpew.
SNB Doffs are scary. Especially with more people using them..
In Player vs Player, already the Engineer has taken a back seat since it's buffs and abilites usefullness are replacable with a Science captian instead.
If the SNB Doffs become cheap enough, you could then just replace both Science and Engineers in PVP With Tacs. Where the only Captain viable is Tactical.
I see a major problem with that in it's self.
What's that you Player vs Environment players say? Engineers and Scis would still be Viable? How? Because an Engineer could give an EPS? EPS is helpful, but it isn't a defense against Subsystem Drain, like it really should be (Polaron Weapons, Energy Siphons, Siphon Drones, Tyken's Rift).
What? A science captian would still have SNB? And other skills to make it useful? True, a Science captian would still be useful for the better timed SNB combined with SNB Doffs. Sensor Scan would also help with a Damage resistance Debuff it provides that can be removed with Science team. And the Energy damage resistance bubble is also useful. Photonic Fleet is only mildly useful as spam and perhaps procs or extra kinetic damage.
But honestly all that pales in compairson to Tactical officers with the ability to buff strip. Sure it's not a timable effect, (Unless there's a bug) where you can decide when to strip buffs like a Science officer can, but given the fact that as a Tactical officer your good in any ship and your buffs help the team all the time, even if they are mostly helping your self since you are contributing more damage regardless to the ship your flying, there is nothing that a Tac with SNB Doffs can do that a Sci can't do at that point. Al though a Sci with SNB Doffs is even scarrier, they won't have the DPS with out their Sensor Scan. But a tac has more toys to buff their damage which is why they are so versitile.
Also, I have not heard of anything stoping the Proc. If I recall correctly, nothing stops Subnuc as it is. Sure a Science team will protect against the Timer delay, but NOTHING stops the buff strip. So if that's the case, it's safe to assume that Nothing stops the SNB Doff proc. Also, even if science team did protect against SNB or the SNB Doff, it would only protect against it for 5 seconds. That's hardly enough time to be effective as a counter.
Borticus, once again you are welcomed and thanked for coming to assist a problem that you have noticed, even if this problem effects PVP MORE then pvp at this time. But of course if this doesn't get resolved, and new missions, or new enemies come out that are custom built that a Sci or SNB Doffs actually help against, I don't think Cryptic would want them to be too easy.
Out of the two options given, I like the first one because it reduces how strong the SNB Doffs actually are. Instead of stripping all buffs, they only strip a portion of them. (BTW, PLEASE Take a look at Victory is Life from the Jem'Hadar 3 Peice set bonus.. That does not even trigger last I've witnessed, only mentioned because it is an SNB effect) The second choice feels like how Phaser Procs used to be, I think, where when one proc hit you couldn't get another proc to fire for X seconds. Honestly, I almost like the Idea of both together. But I guess you would only need the timer if it's actually doing something as powerful as stripping all buffs, compared to only 1-3...
Now to Jeremy or Blznfun or what ever you prefer to call your self. I consider my self apart of the PVP community at large. And I don't want to do things to ruin the fun in PVE. While I would prefer some missions to use better AI's and Environmental effects to provide with more challanges then are currently provided for in PVE, I defintely don't feel that PVE content it's self should be nerfed.
How ever, when something in PVE is also hurting PVP, or both, then it should be looked at. While the SNB doffs don't currently effect PVE in any real valuable way, think about the future. Imagine if into the Hive's space portion (if any) had a pair of spheres that actually provided buffs to a tac cube to make it harder. Buffs that could be stripped by a Sci and it was planned that even though they could be stripped by a Sci, that only happens every X seconds so the buffs could eaisly be reapplied to keep the fight challenging but not impossible.
Change out that Sci for 5 Tacs with 3 SNB Doffs and that same fight now changes to something more akin to a cake walk then a challange and making all that time and effort put in to make it a fun experience something used instead to grind Dilithium. You and your fleet mates don't want that. I don't want that.
So please before you bash the PVP Community for wanting balances put in for new or even older releases to the game, try to remember that we also want to make sure the game is fun for everyone. Not just our selves. This includes but is not limited to eliminating Exploitable Bugs, Crashes, and overpowered items and/or abilities.
Thank you, if you took the time to read the entire post above, for reading it. ~Teapower/Web/Kilaw
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Don't forget that players will now be able to extend enemy cooldowns with a set bonus. Combine that with SNB Doffs and any captain type will be a replacement for sci. As you say, there wouldn't be any reason to fly anything other than Tac.
I suggest everybody takes a big chill pill, or switches games asap, this Dev team will never balance the game, it is simply beyond their capacity to do so, and not in their interest. It doesn't matter what STahl promises, or how many times BOrt posts in here, just look at their actions, and get used to the fact that more of the same is going to be the way of the future. If that no longer warrants interest in STO, I'd suggest you saddle up your Mech, or whatever pvp game strikes your fancy. It will be a far less frustrating experience then this.
@ all the Phaserprocs have a counter crowd. Too lazy to post the math for how many system offline procs can be on the same target in what time. If you can clear them all by your eng teams, fine. I see no problem why you just don't reapply your buffs after the SNB procced then as well. SO no real problem here i guess.....oh right it doesn't work because of CDs.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Eng are already useless, let's just speed it up and get on with it. All hail Tac
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Nobody is talking about nerfing the entire game. We're talking about adjusting the ability of a single doff that has nothing to do with PvE. This doff does not affect the entire game to begin with. Nobody that I know uses it for PvE because there are 50 better doffs for that purpose. Its only use is for PvP, and as such, it has the ability throw a game completely out of balance if a full team is using this doff. I don't even know why a PvE'er would have anything to say about this at all. What exactly are you trying to accomplish by promoting imbalance?
@DevolvedOne
After reading this whole thread - especially the comments made by members of the 106th fleet - I guess the answer for that question is obvious:
They have a warped view of what balance means.
They want to win. But they lack the skills. And they seem to be mad at people who have at least some clue how to play. SNB DOFFs now are their hope to exert revenge on all the mean people who are using OP stuff like team play.
Why bother learning to do team PVP? Just equip 15 SNB DOFFs on your team and there you go.
Dear 106th fleet, equipping SNB DOFFs has nothing to do with skill. There are just a substitute, an ersatz for skill if you will.
To be honest, I am not worried about players like you guys from the 106th. You won't win against a half-decent pugmade even if you're running SNB DOFFs.
What bothers me though are PVP fleets who rely on that SNB DOFF bullcrap to win matches.
It is funny in a way. There are PVP people out there who are defending their use of SNB DOFFs.
Or at least belittling the effectiveness of those DOFFs, yet they use them.
Hmm, I wonder why :rolleyes:
@ilhansk -Inner Circle / Turkish RP Heroes-
Ok... but then you say this....
Yeah, it now gives a skilled player or not a chance to beat the most skilled players and their teams because the Duty officer ability is total BS. Do you even want to see us PVP vets start to use these things on our premade teams? You will cry so hard! SO HARD! :rolleyes:
The correct answer is they probably spent a ****ton on those doffs when they were extremely rare and expensive, and now they don't want them nerfed. :P
They stated that the only pvp they have is only an "extensive testing" inner fleet pvp fest with jam sensors, aceton beam and boarding parties, they don't realize there is a bad and mean world outside that bubble... No wonder pve is so "hard"...
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
I so want in on this
Oh... well i'm putting him on my ignore list then. :eek:
Total win Idea right here ^^^^^
Also, ST should clear the cool-down de-buff!!!! That will make everything fair IMO!!!!
If they do both those things, then yes, very good solution.
First a healboat usually has faw. And if not a friend would lend a hand with a tt. Not a big deal.
Agree with expanding the community, and helping new members get better, but when you get hate messages/posts that accuse you of trying to ruin pve, you really don't want to talk to that person anymore. One thing to have a reasonable argument, another one is to stick to your point just bc you're too stubborn to see the truth.
If you mean sci team as a counter, that's only a partial counter to increased cool downs and only applies to sci Cpt subnuc. Doffs don't have any counters since they only clean you up of any buffs you have.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
You guys will get slammed by jam sensors and waves of boarding parties, so be very afraid! That will win the game right there for your opponents, lol.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...