Egos and an unwarranted sense of smugness in game and on forums doesn't kill pvp...it gives regular players cancer.
it doesn't take much to run 3 scorts (normally jemmies) a sci and healer. Use teamspeak for basic coordination, Then "lawlll we are soo epic!! We cannot be destroyed! Our power levels are over 9000!!!!!!"
It's these people who kill pvp by dictating to the rest of the game via forums and their agenda driven in game chat rooms what is and isn't acceptable in pvp, anytime they don't have the upper hand, "that's fcking cheese!! That's broken!!! Balanceeee somebody think of the balance!!!! Yet when it's working for them nobody wants to bat a ****in eyelid, nobody says anything!
How about **** you and your premade squads telling the sto community what we can and cannot use? It's because you all use the same ****ing cookie cutter builds developed by one or two guys that will only work against people who play by your imaginary rules.
Your shaking and your scared to run a team that is unorthodox, you call it cheese you call it broken or unbalanced, but i have seen teams destroy people using what you call cheese or op or unbalanced tactics... So why can't you do it? Because you lack the skill or intellect to put together a buiild and team that wasn't done for you by somone else.
LOL 3 Escorts. LMFAO OMG.
You and yours aren't very good if you can't just utterly crush 3 Escorts under the weight of sci power and healing. At Most you take 2 Escorts if you're serious about pvp. And then you better have a Very strong primary healer, and very capable secondaries in the sci captains. (as in plural)
None of us are scared to run off the wall teams, infact most of us on a given night Pugmade. Where we just group up with whatever we have and go with it. That we roll your sorry TRIBBLE 15 and 0, is just indicative of your own skill level after the fact. And I really hate to tell you this any "non conventional" team you come up with? We can and will beat it. Hard.
Most of us don't even hop on vent anymore when we pug made either. Because we know how to work together. We can follow each others target, those of us that roll tacs know when to ramp up alphas, because the Nuke is going to be dropped. Most of us sci on the real Premade level know exactly when to dump a nuke. Making a 1 -2 punch that leaves a target vaporized afterwards.
We'll hit it so hard we'll beat the brakes off of it.
Also, I hate to break this to you Champ, but most Premades? We all have differing combat styles. Even things like our Healers can vary tremendously. Bieber runs a full on heal bot Oddy. I run a mirrorstarcruiser (cause I can't stand the lack of speed and agility of the oddy), that focuses about as much on CC as it does raw healing potential. Which again, differs greatly from Crimsons healing Recluse which spams nothing but raw healing #s.
To say nothing of our sci theories, and Escort builds. Different fleets approach the game differently. That there's a pool of common used powers, state quite clearly I think which abilities get used and which discarded.
The only thing killing pvp, are the morons and facerollers that ***** whine and moan rather than suck it up, because Pve tells them they are awesome and people like yourself that found a possible One Trick Pony build, that thinks it's a great substitute for your lack of ability and ingenuity.
it took years to get them egos to where they are, and only seconds to decimate another team with a premade... :P
That attitude comes off as arrogant and obnoxious... but what do you, or others who have 'earned' the right to come off TRIBBLE d bags care? Yourself, get over it.
So much butthurt and anal malfeasance in this thread its actually a pretty sad state of affairs that the valid points I make in regards to a few pvpers "making" the rules on what is and isn't acceptable turns into a flame war about, "omfg I can run a pug and faceroll you 15-0"
Who the **** are you to make assumptions about my build(s)? have you EVER played against me? Dont just assume I wouldnt straight up sht on your brain kid. Talking **** on forum is easy, how about backing up some of those big words with some action?
So much butthurt and anal malfeasance in this thread its actually a pretty sad state of affairs that the valid points I make in regards to a few pvpers "making" the rules on what is and isn't acceptable turns into a flame war about, "omfg I can run a pug and faceroll you 15-0"
Who the **** are you to make assumptions about my build(s)? have you EVER played against me? Dont just assume I wouldnt straight up sht on your brain kid. Talking **** on forum is easy, how about backing up some of those big words with some action?
Hello Chump.
You made 0 valid points. The only thing you did was whine that "the premades omg". You're butt hurt because you have 0 respect given to you for running some Trash Build, or Spam Trash build. And you're trying to take it out on us.
I'm pretty sure I have if you're a frequent pvper. Or at least really one. And I'm pretty sure, given your complete lack of knowledge about proper premade setups that I've wiped the floor with you.
You made 0 valid points. The only thing you did was whine that "the premades omg".
I'm pretty sure I have if you're a frequent pvper. Or at least really one. And I'm pretty sure, given your complete lack of knowledge about proper premade setups that I've wiped the floor with you.
Now I know your a troll, you haven't read any of my posts and are simply here for the lulz.
Well I can have lulz too, give handle and lets rumble in game ^_^ I'll post results here and for the other trolls to see how well you wipe the floor with me lol!
Talking **** on forum is easy, how about backing up some of those big words with some action?
Only valid point you have made. Would love to decimate you over and over in pvp. What's your handle and your fleet's name? Will set up some matches today if you care to man up.
Now I know your a troll, you haven't read any of my posts and are simply here for the lulz.
Well I can have lulz too, give handle and lets rumble in game ^_^ I'll post results here and for the other trolls to see how well you wipe the floor with me lol!
Actually I have.
You're all like "I beat them I beat them honest really omg omg ! And they hate it omg omg laolalajlfafdjfjadjklfadsjklfavjklzjkl;"
And I'm all like "yeah. sure you did. You probably played some Pre Prime Time Chump Team, with TRIBBLE that most of us won't use because of it's Crutch Nature and think you are amazing"
And you are all like "Omg omg **** you! I hate you! omg omg!"
You're all like "I beat them I beat them honest really omg omg ! And they hate it omg omg laolalajlfafdjfjadjklfadsjklfavjklzjkl;"
And I'm all like "yeah. sure you did. You probably played some Pre Prime Time Chump Team, with TRIBBLE that most of us won't use because of it's Crutch Nature and think you are amazing"
And you are all like "Omg omg **** you! I hate you! omg omg!"
And I'm all like "lol. Really"
What ship are you flying Champ?
lol, yeah your right, it went exactly like that. Isnt it a little early for you to be drinking mav?
lol, yeah your right, it went exactly like that. Isnt it a little early for you to be drinking mav?
Actually that is exactly how it went.
And I'm quite sober right now. I don't drink before work.
All you've done in this thread is whine about how you've gotten no love in regards to your supposed ability and that unconventional setups rock. "really".
These toxic egos are not helping to promote more people to PvP and in turn allow PvP to gain more attention from the devs... but trolls b trollin whilst at the same time crying all over these boards about the lack of PvP content... U cool doods r not helping.
It is not the premades that are the most harmful to the PvP community, it is the players who troll newcomers and that have overall negative smart TRIBBLE attitudes that harm this community the most.
Egos and an unwarranted sense of smugness in game and on forums doesn't kill pvp...it gives regular players cancer.
it doesn't take much to run 3 scorts (normally jemmies) a sci and healer. Use teamspeak for basic coordination, Then "lawlll we are soo epic!! We cannot be destroyed! Our power levels are over 9000!!!!!!"
It's these people who kill pvp by dictating to the rest of the game via forums and their agenda driven in game chat rooms what is and isn't acceptable in pvp, anytime they don't have the upper hand, "that's fcking cheese!! That's broken!!! Balanceeee somebody think of the balance!!!! Yet when it's working for them nobody wants to bat a ****in eyelid, nobody says anything!
How about **** you and your premade squads telling the sto community what we can and cannot use? It's because you all use the same ****ing cookie cutter builds developed by one or two guys that will only work against people who play by your imaginary rules.
Your shaking and your scared to run a team that is unorthodox, you call it cheese you call it broken or unbalanced, but i have seen teams destroy people using what you call cheese or op or unbalanced tactics... So why can't you do it? Because you lack the skill or intellect to put together a buiild and team that wasn't done for you by somone else.
Becuase it has none of the confidence of a player who has proven thier methods viable and sounds just like every other new to PvP player who has attempted PvP and failed becuase thier loss could not mesh with their egoes.
The changes that have come about from the PvP crown testing and playing have only been good in my opinion, like the changes that removed the old SNB, RSP and VM and made them more balanced for example.
All the post you put in above has accomplished is that you seem to hate TeamSpeak and feel the existing PvP crown has a hidden agenda that is unfairness to the game.
Get out there an prove your somewhat unfocused point instead of ******** about the actions of others.
* Thanks for teh flowchart offer but I can read ego driven ranting just fine. Though I do apoligise if I took you for another sore-loser player who attempted PvP and died too often for thier liking, becuase your rant has all the characteristics of such a poster.
The same is true for all the other "OP" stuff. The Danubes were completely okay. Phaser procs were completely okay. Energy siphon drones are completely okay. The debuffing energy weapons officers are completely okay.
They just broke the playing style of certain people, who then complained loudly.
Multiple Tractors from multiple pets that can not be successfully countered by PH or ApO, or any movement buffing ability, keeping the target permantly locked in place is not balanced. That is why the Danube pets where altered. They where broken.
Phaser procs that Shutdown systems so often as to be a minor SNB where not balanced. Now they are closer and do not give an unfoar advantage. They where broken.
Siphon drones where (and still may be in not fixed) completely broken in that they shutdown an opponent without chance of counter. They are broken.
The SNB Doffs that give a free debuff so often are broken. Nobody complained for months about them becuase only those few who used them knew how broken they are in PvP. Players, ever wondered in the past how you where so easily beaten in a match, how suddenly your attacks had
less effect or your defenses just seemed to crumble with no logical reason why?
The SNB DOffs may have been the culprit, removing both your defensive and offensive buffs easily and possibly without your even noticing.
They are broken.
You and other veterans have been playing this game for a long time. It is sad that you and several others find nothing more amusing than to troll others, or engage in flame wars. These behaviors are guaranteed to dismay any onlookers; they only make you look like a tool.
It is pathetic that a solid base of the PvP community would decide to act this way, and choose to only correspond with others of like mind.
You and other veterans have been playing this game for a long time. It is sad that you and several others find nothing more amusing than to troll others, or engage in flame wars. These behaviors are guaranteed to dismay any onlookers; they only make you look like a tool.
It is pathetic that a solid base of the PvP community would decide to act this way, and choose to only correspond with others of like mind.
Ask him how nice I've been in pms in game. For those wondering if we 1v1ed we didn't. I reverse engineered his build with 4 questions. Shooting him as a tac would be an exercise in futility :P
I responded the way I did, because of a heinous mis-communication. And I think he knows where I'm coming from now. Some abilities have counters that literally do not work, and the only reason soft counters work is the disparity in skill level between the teams fielding it.
If someone makes posts that I feel are on the rag, I'm going to respond in kind.
Frankly I don't care how I look. It is what it is.
Also it's not like we can provide feedback to the devs and have it mean something. Other than build posting, there's really not much else we can do on these forums.
I'm kind of ashamed of this thread to be honest. We premade folks should be a little more gentle and kind to those disgruntled. After all, they are trying to communicate with us and potentially become another person to have a good game with.
Coming off as, "sure I'd love to play, and beat you over and over" or "You mad bro?", aren't the responses we should be projecting in a community that is in dire need of new blood.
Despite how some individuals may be undesirable to associate with, take into account that this could be:
A) first contact with them and you don't fully know them, it could be their personal defense mechanism to let you know they won't be pushed around and;
C) their way of reaching out to a community that can at times be very cut throat, cocky, and outright just as undesirable as them.
The fact of the matter still remains to be acknowledged, we as a whole community need to unite into one TS where we all have our own shared areas. We solve the animosities amongst one another and decide how to go about reviving pvp on our own terms since most of us are dissatisfied with the Devs.
So again, our tone should change even though they maybe rude don't rule out the possibility of a positive outcome.
-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes (RP stands for rolling pugs, jk).
The same is true for all the other "OP" stuff. The Danubes were completely okay. Phaser procs were completely okay. Energy siphon drones are completely okay. The debuffing energy weapons officers are completely okay.
They just broke the playing style of certain people, who then complained loudly.
You can't be serious Soph! I refuse to think somebody can make such an affirmation. Pets have nothing to do with skill. Broken pets are just nonsense and plain breaking your fun. This is a game and lack of ballance = not fun. Yea, there are work arounds, but that doesn't mean I'm having fun seeing 30-40 pets storming around, tractoring me, siphoning me, phaser proc me to death and now, ships with 3 subnuc doffs, so all my previous counters won't work all the time. There is no build right now that can successfully deal with all this junk, if you have one in mind, I'd be happy to consider it.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
You can't be serious Soph! I refuse to think somebody can make such an affirmation. Pets have nothing to do with skill. Broken pets are just nonsense and plain breaking your fun. This is a game and lack of ballance = not fun. Yea, there are work arounds, but that doesn't mean I'm having fun seeing 30-40 pets storming around, tractoring me, siphoning me, phaser proc me to death and now, ships with 3 subnuc doffs, so all my previous counters won't work all the time. There is no build right now that can successfully deal with all this junk, if you have one in mind, I'd be happy to consider it.
He's just upset because the only builds hes ever killed Anyone with are about to get dev attention according to jman.
You can't be serious Soph! I refuse to think somebody can make such an affirmation. Pets have nothing to do with skill. Broken pets are just nonsense and plain breaking your fun. This is a game and lack of ballance = not fun. Yea, there are work arounds, but that doesn't mean I'm having fun seeing 30-40 pets storming around, tractoring me, siphoning me, phaser proc me to death and now, ships with 3 subnuc doffs, so all my previous counters won't work all the time. There is no build right now that can successfully deal with all this junk, if you have one in mind, I'd be happy to consider it.
Good coordination is the hard counter to it. Good target/heal calling is the most potent Macro that can undo everything, except for SNDoffs.
-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes (RP stands for ROFL PETS)
Good coordination is the hard counter to it. Good target/heal calling is the most potent Macro that can undo everything, except for SNDoffs.
-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes (RP stands for ROFL PETS)
If the team using those is good, then all your coordination won't win the game. Heck, it doesnt even need to be good, lol, just smart enough to stay alive and cross heal. 4 siphon carriers and a bug (just to have somebody killing faster) are unstoppable. Not likely to have a premade that horrible (just made up a bad pvp scenario, lol) but possible. And agree, always the team is the key to success, I'm not talking about this, just wanted to state the stupidity this game reaches sometime with all those pve enhancements. Well, less subnuc doffs and new time ships (possibly) that are more designed towards making pvp "fun". You may find fun swarming through 20 tractor danoobs or a gazillion siphons, but I really don't. Even when I fly bortie with double faw. Because I feel like doing pve, shooting npcs. It's not a complaint, it's my personal opinion.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
these last few pages really show what is the quality, and what is the cancer in pvp. you know nothings show up and go on a rant completely absent of facts about people that know how to play, full of insults and forum censored profanity and you expect to be treated with any civility? thats not how a discussion works, this is the internet, we have no reason to suffer fools like yourselves. check your butt hurt at the door, act respectfully and you will be treated in kind. theres no stupider kind of person then someone who trys to shout down an expert on a subject. its one thing to debate them, and try to present evidence against his, but theres has been none of that in any of this ****posting.
If the team using those is good, then all your coordination won't win the game. Heck, it doesnt even need to be good, lol, just smart enough to stay alive and cross heal. 4 siphon carriers and a bug (just to have somebody killing faster) are unstoppable. Not likely to have a premade that horrible (just made up a bad pvp scenario, lol) but possible. And agree, always the team is the key to success, I'm not talking about this, just wanted to state the stupidity this game reaches sometime with all those pve enhancements. Well, less subnuc doffs and new time ships (possibly) that are more designed towards making pvp "fun". You may find fun swarming through 20 tractor danoobs or a gazillion siphons, but I really don't. Even when I fly bortie with double faw. Because I feel like doing pve, shooting npcs. It's not a complaint, it's my personal opinion.
4 Cruisers, Science, Tac, with FAW will counter those siphon drones. Or 3 Cruisers with FAW and one sci ship with grav well will counter as well. It may end up being a long match, but it still is a counter nonetheless. In fact, I'll retract saying it may end up being a long match because the use of siphon drones are a depiction of desperation and a sole tactic to garner results. So once it's countered, that TS will have a lot of panic and their dependency on such a tactic will become apparent.
And don't get me wrong, there are immediate things like the siphon drones that can't be countered. However, the game is shifting to such a "fight fire with fire" that eventually people will be using the same things against one another. But this goes right back to organizing and congregating in one place so we can all agree on things together rather than fight on the forums/opvp.
Be sure to know that the siphon drones are subject to another nerf.
It could have to do with the manners and the outright arrogance so many people here display while not being tolerant to people mirroring it to them. I suppose.
Last I checked everyone's ****te stinks the same.
Yes. So? The whole idea that everything must be directly counterable is a certain philosophy. A counter can also be something else than pressing the right button, such as a tactic.
lol- What tactic will you use to escape 6 tractor beams holding you in place without a counter to break them long enough to try it while you are under fire?
Shoot the shuttles? Sure, it can work though lets hope you facing the right direction or have the AoE attacks to shoot them all fast enough to kill them quickly. Otherwise the the player your fighting kills you as you stay locked down unable to move.
Hit an escape plan like EPTE+DUET+all power to engines+etc and hope to run away? Another viable plan if you only have one or two shuttles on you that you must escape otehrise its a short little run for a small length of space and you are back in the lock down waiting for the other player to follow and kill you.
Log out? A cheap choice that should not be entertained
Emitt a cloud of EWP to kill the offending pets as they fly around you? Another viable idea that will work if they are close enough to be in your cloud of plasma and the other player is not shooting at you as you sit a nd wait for the EWP to kill the pets. Otherwise you die quickly.
Scramble Sensors? A soft counter and therefore against your philospy. Hope your build has the ability or you have a AMS console equiped.
Jam Sensors? Only works on one pet.
Lets look at the ingame counters designed to help fight TB,
Polarize Hull? The designed Counter for Tractor beams and thanks to the changes to Danube pets it can work if timed properly, though multiple pets will re-lock you down if you do not have the experience to us PH wisely. A wise and fair balance to the TB danubes
Attack pattern Omega? The semi-soft counter to tractor beams but like PH if not used correctly or if used against more than a few pets you will end up locked down again.
Otherwise a fair counter to the TB danubes.
Auxillary to Inertial Dampeners? I honestly have no idea if this works against the danube pets as a counter, though if it does function like ApO then it to is a fair counter.
Of course none of these fairly designed counters would work if the Danube TB issue had not be addressed thanks to the help of the current PvP community.
4 Cruisers, Science, Tac, with FAW will counter those siphon drones. Or 3 Cruisers with FAW and one sci ship with grav well will counter as well. It may end up being a long match, but it still is a counter nonetheless. In fact, I'll retract saying it may end up being a long match because the use of siphon drones are a depiction of desperation and a sole tactic to garner results. So once it's countered, that TS will have a lot of panic and their dependency on such a tactic will become apparent.
And don't get me wrong, there are immediate things like the siphon drones that can't be countered. However, the game is shifting to such a "fight fire with fire" that eventually people will be using the same things against one another. But this goes right back to organizing and congregating in one place so we can all agree on things together rather than fight on the forums/opvp.
Be sure to know that the siphon drones are subject to another nerf.
You're correct. In fact, about a month ago, when we had a conversation about siphons, I stated the same thing. You must have a tac cruiser per siphons carrier with hangar doffs to counter the spam. But when you go in a queue, and have no idea what you'll find, you may not have 3-4 tac cruisers with faw. You can deal with spam, but you need to be prepared to do so. Without having the right build the fight you have is not going to be won. Agree, my example is extreme, I don't remember seeing in queues more than 2 carriers, few times 3. But due to random queue composition, and not knowing who you fight, it's a chance you won't have 3 dps cruisers. And if you go with 3 dps cruisers and find a team with 2 sci, 2 escorts and one healer, you'll more than likely loose. And surely, I'm referring at relatively ballanced teams, not noobs spamming siphons that don't coordinate and get stomped.
I'm not arguing with you at all. Because in essence you are correct. All I'm saying is that for me (and many other folks in this forum), fighting pets is not fun. They do have a place in game, but with hangar doffs, the spam is horrible and sometimes impossible to deal with unless specific builds that you just mentioned. Imagine to have recluse engi with siphons. Another extreme, but much worse idea than carrier with siphons. You'll definitely need those subnuke doffs to take out the spam source. And also, I'm not talking of prearranged matches either, you can always have the rules set before.
Edit: I heard Borticus saying they'll address (finally) the siphons.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Edit: I heard Borticus saying they'll address (finally) the siphons.
Yeah they did prior to that too. When siphons would be fast moving pets, now they're close to being stationary. Making their defensive rating low with no accuracy FAW to hit them.
They need to sticky this thread. That way we don't have to keep giving the same old tired responses to the same old tired line.
Premades don't ruin PvP. PUGs, that don't ignore their own ego long enough to realize that they are doing it wrong, ruin PvP.
that might be the single most arrogant statement I have ever read.
the OP has a very good point. you have fleets that focus and train ad develop teamwork, and the go in and "stomp the pugs"...
want o guess the future? i'll tell you. just go play that blizz game for a while. Don't join the queue unless you are GEARED and KNOW THE FIGHT.. how the hell do you get the gear if you can't join the queue?
that's the direction of PVP and STFs in this game.
that might be the single most arrogant statement I have ever read.
the OP has a very good point. you have fleets that focus and train ad develop teamwork, and the go in and "stomp the pugs"...
want o guess the future? i'll tell you. just go play that blizz game for a while. Don't join the queue unless you are GEARED and KNOW THE FIGHT.. how the hell do you get the gear if you can't join the queue?
...that's the direction of PVP and STFs in this game.
and I stand by my statement. It is a team-based game, it was designed to be a team-based game and teamwork trumps all else in STO. If you can'tt fully realize the consequences of that simple fact, then you truly are missing the point.
You can't be Captain Kirk in PvP, it just doesn't work. Pre-teaming for a PvP match is no different than pre-teaming for an STF. You do it because you don't want to risk being matched with lousy pugs. If you find that you are having trouble in PvP matches against "premades", then join a PvP fleet and play the game the way it is intended... with teammates.
edit: Also, ranting on the forums instead of asking for help is the correct response to a "premade" roflstomping? Any PvPers, well most, will give help when asked. The community is STO is very good about that.
and I stand by my statement. It is a team-based game, it was designed to be a team-based game and teamwork trumps all else in STO. If you can'tt fully realize the consequences of that simple fact, then you truly are missing the point.
You can't be Captain Kirk in PvP, it just doesn't work. Pre-teaming for a PvP match is no different than pre-teaming for an STF. You do it because you don't want to risk being matched with lousy pugs. If you find that you are having trouble in PvP matches against "premades", then join a PvP fleet and play the game the way it is intended... with teammates.
edit: Also, ranting on the forums instead of asking for help is the correct response to a "premade" roflstomping? Any PvPers, well most, will give help when asked. The community is STO is very good about that.
I agree. Last night for example I was playing with some great folks from TRIBBLE and not only did they compensate my MANY failings as a pilot, but they allowed me to do what I am learning to do very well thank you very much!
In one C&H I was able to tank 4-5 ships all because there are phenomenal healer whose only interest was in supporting me. It felt absolutely fantastic.
I have never felt SO ALIVE in PvP before. And later that same evening we came-up against a popular semi-premade and won!
Now from a guy that usually gets his a@se handed to him routinely, I look forward to many more of those exhilarating moments!!
There is nothing more disheartening than to have to face 3 premade players alone. Its emasculating.
I am edging my way forward slowly, but surely and the divide is not so great anymore.
To all the Pugs reading this, thinking "I hate PvP. I hate premades", I can only say this. So did I. The best lesson for any Pug player in STO IMHO is to start out with the following role and its lessons.
Sci/ Engineer Healing
Focus yourself purely on the mechanics of supporting your team. Drop all notions of playing Tac or killer cruiser for now, and just heal the team. Powers like TSS, ENG, Ept SIF, ES. Those are your tools.
For me it was what unlocked the importance of team-play, and it opens up one to becoming a valuable member on any team.
Once you have mastered healing, start concentrating on blowing things up. Leave the DPS to experienced and talented players, and given time you will learn all there is to know about their tactics, builds and setups.
Focus yourself purely on the mechanics of supporting your team. Drop all notions of playing Tac or killer cruiser for now, and just heal the team. Powers like TSS, ENG, Ept SIF, ES. Those are your tools.
For me it was what unlocked the importance of team-play, and it opens up one to becoming a valuable member on any team.
Right on! I always try to be a healer in games that allow for it, since most people tend to ignore that part because they consider it boring.
Some of the most fun I've had in games has been just keeping people alive. There's something immensely satisfying about bringing a guy or guys back from the brink and keeping them strong.
Comments
LOL 3 Escorts. LMFAO OMG.
You and yours aren't very good if you can't just utterly crush 3 Escorts under the weight of sci power and healing. At Most you take 2 Escorts if you're serious about pvp. And then you better have a Very strong primary healer, and very capable secondaries in the sci captains. (as in plural)
None of us are scared to run off the wall teams, infact most of us on a given night Pugmade. Where we just group up with whatever we have and go with it. That we roll your sorry TRIBBLE 15 and 0, is just indicative of your own skill level after the fact. And I really hate to tell you this any "non conventional" team you come up with? We can and will beat it. Hard.
Most of us don't even hop on vent anymore when we pug made either. Because we know how to work together. We can follow each others target, those of us that roll tacs know when to ramp up alphas, because the Nuke is going to be dropped. Most of us sci on the real Premade level know exactly when to dump a nuke. Making a 1 -2 punch that leaves a target vaporized afterwards.
We'll hit it so hard we'll beat the brakes off of it.
Also, I hate to break this to you Champ, but most Premades? We all have differing combat styles. Even things like our Healers can vary tremendously. Bieber runs a full on heal bot Oddy. I run a mirrorstarcruiser (cause I can't stand the lack of speed and agility of the oddy), that focuses about as much on CC as it does raw healing potential. Which again, differs greatly from Crimsons healing Recluse which spams nothing but raw healing #s.
To say nothing of our sci theories, and Escort builds. Different fleets approach the game differently. That there's a pool of common used powers, state quite clearly I think which abilities get used and which discarded.
The only thing killing pvp, are the morons and facerollers that ***** whine and moan rather than suck it up, because Pve tells them they are awesome and people like yourself that found a possible One Trick Pony build, that thinks it's a great substitute for your lack of ability and ingenuity.
That attitude comes off as arrogant and obnoxious... but what do you, or others who have 'earned' the right to come off TRIBBLE d bags care? Yourself, get over it.
Who the **** are you to make assumptions about my build(s)? have you EVER played against me? Dont just assume I wouldnt straight up sht on your brain kid. Talking **** on forum is easy, how about backing up some of those big words with some action?
Hello Chump.
You made 0 valid points. The only thing you did was whine that "the premades omg". You're butt hurt because you have 0 respect given to you for running some Trash Build, or Spam Trash build. And you're trying to take it out on us.
I'm pretty sure I have if you're a frequent pvper. Or at least really one. And I'm pretty sure, given your complete lack of knowledge about proper premade setups that I've wiped the floor with you.
Now I know your a troll, you haven't read any of my posts and are simply here for the lulz.
Well I can have lulz too, give handle and lets rumble in game ^_^ I'll post results here and for the other trolls to see how well you wipe the floor with me lol!
Only valid point you have made. Would love to decimate you over and over in pvp. What's your handle and your fleet's name? Will set up some matches today if you care to man up.
Nevermind. nothing to see here, move along.
Actually I have.
You're all like "I beat them I beat them honest really omg omg ! And they hate it omg omg laolalajlfafdjfjadjklfadsjklfavjklzjkl;"
And I'm all like "yeah. sure you did. You probably played some Pre Prime Time Chump Team, with TRIBBLE that most of us won't use because of it's Crutch Nature and think you are amazing"
And you are all like "Omg omg **** you! I hate you! omg omg!"
And I'm all like "lol. Really"
What ship are you flying Champ?
lol, yeah your right, it went exactly like that. Isnt it a little early for you to be drinking mav?
Actually that is exactly how it went.
And I'm quite sober right now. I don't drink before work.
All you've done in this thread is whine about how you've gotten no love in regards to your supposed ability and that unconventional setups rock. "really".
It is not the premades that are the most harmful to the PvP community, it is the players who troll newcomers and that have overall negative smart TRIBBLE attitudes that harm this community the most.
R.I.P
You and other veterans have been playing this game for a long time. It is sad that you and several others find nothing more amusing than to troll others, or engage in flame wars. These behaviors are guaranteed to dismay any onlookers; they only make you look like a tool.
It is pathetic that a solid base of the PvP community would decide to act this way, and choose to only correspond with others of like mind.
Ask him how nice I've been in pms in game. For those wondering if we 1v1ed we didn't. I reverse engineered his build with 4 questions. Shooting him as a tac would be an exercise in futility :P
I responded the way I did, because of a heinous mis-communication. And I think he knows where I'm coming from now. Some abilities have counters that literally do not work, and the only reason soft counters work is the disparity in skill level between the teams fielding it.
If someone makes posts that I feel are on the rag, I'm going to respond in kind.
Frankly I don't care how I look. It is what it is.
Also it's not like we can provide feedback to the devs and have it mean something. Other than build posting, there's really not much else we can do on these forums.
Coming off as, "sure I'd love to play, and beat you over and over" or "You mad bro?", aren't the responses we should be projecting in a community that is in dire need of new blood.
Despite how some individuals may be undesirable to associate with, take into account that this could be:
A) first contact with them and you don't fully know them,
C) their way of reaching out to a community that can at times be very cut throat, cocky, and outright just as undesirable as them.
The fact of the matter still remains to be acknowledged, we as a whole community need to unite into one TS where we all have our own shared areas. We solve the animosities amongst one another and decide how to go about reviving pvp on our own terms since most of us are dissatisfied with the Devs.
So again, our tone should change even though they maybe rude don't rule out the possibility of a positive outcome.
-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes (RP stands for rolling pugs, jk).
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You can't be serious Soph! I refuse to think somebody can make such an affirmation. Pets have nothing to do with skill. Broken pets are just nonsense and plain breaking your fun. This is a game and lack of ballance = not fun. Yea, there are work arounds, but that doesn't mean I'm having fun seeing 30-40 pets storming around, tractoring me, siphoning me, phaser proc me to death and now, ships with 3 subnuc doffs, so all my previous counters won't work all the time. There is no build right now that can successfully deal with all this junk, if you have one in mind, I'd be happy to consider it.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
He's just upset because the only builds hes ever killed Anyone with are about to get dev attention according to jman.
Good coordination is the hard counter to it. Good target/heal calling is the most potent Macro that can undo everything, except for SNDoffs.
-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes (RP stands for ROFL PETS)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If the team using those is good, then all your coordination won't win the game. Heck, it doesnt even need to be good, lol, just smart enough to stay alive and cross heal. 4 siphon carriers and a bug (just to have somebody killing faster) are unstoppable. Not likely to have a premade that horrible (just made up a bad pvp scenario, lol) but possible. And agree, always the team is the key to success, I'm not talking about this, just wanted to state the stupidity this game reaches sometime with all those pve enhancements. Well, less subnuc doffs and new time ships (possibly) that are more designed towards making pvp "fun". You may find fun swarming through 20 tractor danoobs or a gazillion siphons, but I really don't. Even when I fly bortie with double faw. Because I feel like doing pve, shooting npcs. It's not a complaint, it's my personal opinion.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
4 Cruisers, Science, Tac, with FAW will counter those siphon drones. Or 3 Cruisers with FAW and one sci ship with grav well will counter as well. It may end up being a long match, but it still is a counter nonetheless. In fact, I'll retract saying it may end up being a long match because the use of siphon drones are a depiction of desperation and a sole tactic to garner results. So once it's countered, that TS will have a lot of panic and their dependency on such a tactic will become apparent.
And don't get me wrong, there are immediate things like the siphon drones that can't be countered. However, the game is shifting to such a "fight fire with fire" that eventually people will be using the same things against one another. But this goes right back to organizing and congregating in one place so we can all agree on things together rather than fight on the forums/opvp.
Be sure to know that the siphon drones are subject to another nerf.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
R.I.P
You're correct. In fact, about a month ago, when we had a conversation about siphons, I stated the same thing. You must have a tac cruiser per siphons carrier with hangar doffs to counter the spam. But when you go in a queue, and have no idea what you'll find, you may not have 3-4 tac cruisers with faw. You can deal with spam, but you need to be prepared to do so. Without having the right build the fight you have is not going to be won. Agree, my example is extreme, I don't remember seeing in queues more than 2 carriers, few times 3. But due to random queue composition, and not knowing who you fight, it's a chance you won't have 3 dps cruisers. And if you go with 3 dps cruisers and find a team with 2 sci, 2 escorts and one healer, you'll more than likely loose. And surely, I'm referring at relatively ballanced teams, not noobs spamming siphons that don't coordinate and get stomped.
I'm not arguing with you at all. Because in essence you are correct. All I'm saying is that for me (and many other folks in this forum), fighting pets is not fun. They do have a place in game, but with hangar doffs, the spam is horrible and sometimes impossible to deal with unless specific builds that you just mentioned. Imagine to have recluse engi with siphons. Another extreme, but much worse idea than carrier with siphons. You'll definitely need those subnuke doffs to take out the spam source. And also, I'm not talking of prearranged matches either, you can always have the rules set before.
Edit: I heard Borticus saying they'll address (finally) the siphons.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Yeah they did prior to that too. When siphons would be fast moving pets, now they're close to being stationary. Making their defensive rating low with no accuracy FAW to hit them.
I'm @PaxOttomana, which fleet and @handle do you have? Add me.
Thanks.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
that might be the single most arrogant statement I have ever read.
the OP has a very good point. you have fleets that focus and train ad develop teamwork, and the go in and "stomp the pugs"...
want o guess the future? i'll tell you. just go play that blizz game for a while. Don't join the queue unless you are GEARED and KNOW THE FIGHT.. how the hell do you get the gear if you can't join the queue?
that's the direction of PVP and STFs in this game.
and I stand by my statement. It is a team-based game, it was designed to be a team-based game and teamwork trumps all else in STO. If you can'tt fully realize the consequences of that simple fact, then you truly are missing the point.
You can't be Captain Kirk in PvP, it just doesn't work. Pre-teaming for a PvP match is no different than pre-teaming for an STF. You do it because you don't want to risk being matched with lousy pugs. If you find that you are having trouble in PvP matches against "premades", then join a PvP fleet and play the game the way it is intended... with teammates.
edit: Also, ranting on the forums instead of asking for help is the correct response to a "premade" roflstomping? Any PvPers, well most, will give help when asked. The community is STO is very good about that.
I agree. Last night for example I was playing with some great folks from TRIBBLE and not only did they compensate my MANY failings as a pilot, but they allowed me to do what I am learning to do very well thank you very much!
In one C&H I was able to tank 4-5 ships all because there are phenomenal healer whose only interest was in supporting me. It felt absolutely fantastic.
I have never felt SO ALIVE in PvP before. And later that same evening we came-up against a popular semi-premade and won!
Now from a guy that usually gets his a@se handed to him routinely, I look forward to many more of those exhilarating moments!!
There is nothing more disheartening than to have to face 3 premade players alone. Its emasculating.
I am edging my way forward slowly, but surely and the divide is not so great anymore.
To all the Pugs reading this, thinking "I hate PvP. I hate premades", I can only say this. So did I. The best lesson for any Pug player in STO IMHO is to start out with the following role and its lessons.
Sci/ Engineer Healing
Focus yourself purely on the mechanics of supporting your team. Drop all notions of playing Tac or killer cruiser for now, and just heal the team. Powers like TSS, ENG, Ept SIF, ES. Those are your tools.
For me it was what unlocked the importance of team-play, and it opens up one to becoming a valuable member on any team.
Once you have mastered healing, start concentrating on blowing things up. Leave the DPS to experienced and talented players, and given time you will learn all there is to know about their tactics, builds and setups.
Right on! I always try to be a healer in games that allow for it, since most people tend to ignore that part because they consider it boring.
Some of the most fun I've had in games has been just keeping people alive. There's something immensely satisfying about bringing a guy or guys back from the brink and keeping them strong.