Guys, guys, we really need to avoid PuGstomping. Look, I know it's fun and all, and really it is. I mean, getting on TS, forming up a full 5-man pre-made group and just utterly annihilating noobs can all be good fun, but remember that every time you're doing this, you're killing PvP!
Look, here's the thing right, we all whine and moan on this forum about how PvP seems to be dying and how Cryptic doesn't seem to care, but we don't stop to think how we're contributing to it. The only way PvP is gonna survive is if those random PuGs we like to rag on so much are willing to take a chance on a PvP queue.
Here's the problem though, let's say you're a newb. Note I said newb, NOT a noob. So you came in through free-to-play, and you've joined a friendly (but not PvP-oriented) fleet. Got yourself to VA and thought you'd give PvP a try.
You enter the queue, and you try your best. You're new to this game, so you don't know certain things. You don't know how important Tactical Team is. You don't realize Aceton Beam is a horrible skill. And you definitely don't know such advanced skills as keybinds to trigger multiple skills at once, or even just re-balancing your shields as you fire.
But you do know enough to shoot at your enemies and you hope to learn more and have fun doing it. Instead, you're up against a full fleet team of Sad Pandas, or Angry Clowns, or Show Me Your Critz, or TRIBBLE., or Nova Core, or whatever. So you get your TRIBBLE stomped. Hard.
You die horribly, again and again. And not only that, you see your teammates warp off, or take off their shields and stop trying. Let me ask you guys in those fleets I mentioned, is it any challenge, or even any fun, to fight that? On top of it all, you still try your best, but nobody on either side is giving you any pointers. Or any help at all.
So the match ends. It's 15-0, NOT in your favor, and I don't think I'm gonna have to tell you what this newb is thinking about PvP right now. Who knows? With the right training, and the right help, he might be a monster in PvP someday. But it's not gonna happen, because he's NEVER gonna queue again.
Look, all I'm saying is that maybe we should look into something a bit different. How about, 4-man or even 3-man pre-mades? That way, at least the newb can end up on the OWNING side for once, and at the end if it maybe that fleet can give him some pointers on what he might have done wrong.
I'm just saying that it's up to us, the guys who've been PvPing a while and are in good PvP fleets, to try and promote our own format. Because if we keep doing what we're doing, we're gonna end up killing PvP for sure.
Look buddy, complain at Cryptic.
We dont like to PuGstomp just as much as any other premade doesnt like it. It makes PvP boring.
But hey, you cannot deny us to play now can you.
Again, complain at Cryptic. At times when there are 2 Fleet premades running the queues, and 1 Opvp pugmade has been set up together, the system still isnt smart enough by queuing up these teams against each other. Not our fault is it? The queue system simply isnst smart enough.
Basically speaking, if you want a valid team comp you need to follow three rules:
No more than one engineer captain
No more than two tactical captains
No less than two science captains
If you violate any of these rules your team is already messed. If you obey these three rules then your team, at least as far as career ratios goes, is valid. Of course, you can always mess things up in other ways.
Nice sum up, completely agree.
now let me sum up the reason why a pug always fails horrible 15-0, or why most matches (99% of the time end up in a boring 15-0)
these magical eng cruisers are a myth, should engs be gratefull that there still is a "narrow" platform for their native ship class? NObody has any use for the in NWS, or most parts of PvP. The only thing eng cruisers are good for, is denying the other team and end of the arena, if they turn up with 5x eng/cruiser, waiting for the other team to either fall asleep or warp out.
Since the sci nerf, there is nothing an eng/nebbie offers that a cruiser doesn't do better (except they look about 500x better then any FED cruiser ever will. But boy, what do you know, there still is some narrow platform for Tac/Sci which trump eng/nebbie every single time.
All escorts are for tacs, no narrow band here, none are for engs,
Cruisers have a narrow platform for tacs, ok, but the platform for viable cruisers build for eng is just as narrow.
I really don't think we are that far apart, in what we're saying, maybe i just feel it more since my main were engs which have all been relegated to doff storage space now.
Yes.. Iceheart and all of my CC heal cruisers are all a complete and total myth and don't exist what so ever :rolleyes: 5 engis vs almost anything (save 5 sci) has always been that way. 5 eng vs 3 sci and a tac or better yet pair of tacs = dead engies. Or you go deep and go 4 sci one tac and just roll the sub nukes in sequentially. Those five engies aren't going to be getting any kills true, but given just how rare eng captains have always been, that team up almost never happens randomly. You pretty much have to Try to get five engs in one team deliberately.
The eng allows a given team to run more Aggressive setups, and or to provide extra DPS which is constant. Mine, provides extra CC, while backing up with great healing capability. (it still runs over capped weapon power as well) If you can't see how being able to run a more aggressive team, against the mountain of healing in STO is useful maybe you should move onto another game, because you're so bitter at this point that you can't see the forest for the trees. Go watch my healer Demo. And tell me my eng didn't contribute in anyway shape or form to that match. I have hundreds if not thousands of other matches, where I actually tried and my contributions were genuinely larger.
If I dropped my plas 3 for an ASIF3, I could support 2 Escorts with the aid of 2 Sci and I don't even have an Oddy. Just the old plain jane starcruiser. Heck if i dropped my RSP for an ASIF1 I could probably support 2 scorts. I certainly have the endurance capability to get away with it thanks to the freebies that I get as an eng captain. I know for sure as it is I can support a Scort and a Tac Cruiser, with 2 sci on the field with me.
Outside of the Oddy, the Nebula is the best pure heal boat the feds have. (non lockbox) it's also capable of mounting VM3, which is something the oddy as of right now can not do. It's also considerably quicker so if it wanted to go a hair more aggressive it could with Plas1
the same applies for the Dkyr.
Yes.. Iceheart and all of my CC heal cruisers are all a complete and total myth and don't exist what so ever :rolleyes:
/snip
Outside of the Oddy, the Nebula is the best pure heal boat the feds have. (non lockbox) it's also capable of mounting VM3, which is something the oddy as of right now can not do. It's also considerably quicker so if it wanted to go a hair more aggressive it could with Plas1
the same applies for the Dkyr.
Yup Oddy has invalidate the Nebbie, that extra VM3 does not make up for lack of ES3. Atrox equally brings more cc then the nebbie with similar or better healing.
one eng per team and he has the choice of one heal setup with minor variations according to ship skin.
Seriously, plasma with an eng, without tac buffs?
If your engs were that awesome, where have been the teams with more then one?, How about engs in different ships then heal cruisers? Engs are a waist, yes a good player gets mileage out of them, but as you said yourself, 6mio healing from a recluse doesn;t need an eng to be deliver, maxing out energy equally doesn't need an eng, and the pressure dmg, doesn't do squad thanks to yoyo healing and BFI. At then end you need sci and tac to get anything done.
If your engs are that great, how come i only see you in your tacs? Uhh and all the great ships that have been released for engs? At the end craptic will do nothing to address this, so who cares anymore?? See you at MWO.
Yup Oddy has invalidate the Nebbie, that extra VM3 does not make up for lack of ES3. Atrox equally brings more cc then the nebbie with similar or better healing.
one eng per team and he has the choice of one heal setup with minor variations according to ship skin.
Seriously, plasma with an eng, without tac buffs?
If your engs were that awesome, where have been the teams with more then one?, How about engs in different ships then heal cruisers? Engs are a waist, yes a good player gets mileage out of them, but as you said yourself, 6mio healing from a recluse doesn;t need an eng to be deliver, maxing out energy equally doesn't need an eng, and the pressure dmg, doesn't do squad thanks to yoyo healing and BFI. At then end you need sci and tac to get anything done.
If your engs are that great, how come i only see you in your tacs? Uhh and all the great ships that have been released for engs? At the end craptic will do nothing to address this, so who cares anymore?? See you at MWO.
Yes plas without tac buffs. The best part of warp plasma is the Slow (which can become a Stop with the antimatter doff) it always has been. If you're relying solely on plasma to do damage for you, your build is terrible. Especially if you're a tac.
You shouldn't field a team with more than 2 tacs either. Clearly tacs must be underpowered garbage. Especially since you need at least 2 sci players at all times.
Again see comment about needing only one Cleric per five man team in RIFT or other mmo of your choice. It's not that hard to figure.
Because I'm a Damage, or Crowd Control player at heart. Those are my two specialities in mmos. I just don't enjoy healing (though I do enjoy it more in STO than I did most other titles). I actually play my eng more frequently than I do my Sci captain. And I certainly play it more than my lolground toons. So, I must enjoy something about the eng captain and the Skjald.
You shouldn't field a team with more than 2 tacs either. Clearly tacs must be underpowered garbage. Especially since you need at least 2 sci players at all times.
Again see comment about needing only one Cleric per five man team in RIFT or other mmo of your choice. It's not that hard to figure.
KK, let's just make sure that sci and tac have all ship classes available too them, in multiple "narrow" combinations.
After checking some pvp build threads I realize that starcruiser and AC builds on an oddy, is really all that is needed for engs especially when bringing more then one, doesn't make much sense.
Prior to this weekend, I probably had about 3 hours of PVP experience including about 15 seconds while leveling my fed, a few pug rounds with my defiant when I hit VA, and the remainder was Kerat/Pug with my klink in a BOP which I leveled a couple of weeks ago. I usually wouldn't PVP because like everyone else, I had no fun getting stompped. It was always my intention to learn PVP and after reading this thread I decided I would try it again this weekend. Coincidence had it that I met one guy from this forum in an elite STF and the other (also from this forum) on the suggested channels. I asked for some assistance, which I Received. With the advice and some practice, I was doing better. I played mostly PVP all weekend and had fun. I will attest that what is being said here is true. Ask for advice and you will probably get it.
PVP community +1
Thanks for the help, see you in the que.
-Maverick
KK, let's just make sure that sci and tac have all ship classes available too them, in multiple "narrow" combinations.
After checking some pvp build threads I realize that starcruiser and AC builds on an oddy, is really all that is needed for engs especially when bringing more then one, doesn't make much sense.
Have fun with the cruisers
Idk, I like playing my eng healer. I receive quite a few PM'S thanking me. Anymore I play my tac for the lulz.
Idk, I like playing my eng healer. I receive quite a few PM'S thanking me. Anymore I play my tac for the lulz.
That's great, see how you like it after two years, with the same skills and builds.
IN other news, the USS GanGNaM will be making an appearance soon(tm) and yes its an eng/cruiser.....at least it has a dabo table, since i doubt that pvp will be much fun with the latest lockbox prices
I've only been pvping for probably the last 7-8 months and honestly when playing kdf going against premades is alot more fun than the average fed pug. If u pug and get your butt stomped go to kerrat there are alot of pvpers there that are more than happy to help u out with your build. Just a couple days ago after getting continuosly annihilated i asked Kedric from SOB for some help with my build him and Lady Felk'hr spent probably an hour helping m,e out with my timing and suggesting a new boff layout. If u want to pvp and keep getting kills just ask for help.
I remember a cold dark scary night when I was lost in a sea of confusion, Kedric saved me too lol.
That's great, see how you like it after two years, with the same skills and builds.
IN other news, the USS GanGNaM will be making an appearance soon(tm) and yes its an eng/cruiser.....at least it has a dabo table, since i doubt that pvp will be much fun with the latest lockbox prices
OP! Op op op op...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] @Aquitaine985 Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
That's great, see how you like it after two years, with the same skills and builds.
IN other news, the USS GanGNaM will be making an appearance soon(tm) and yes its an eng/cruiser.....at least it has a dabo table, since i doubt that pvp will be much fun with the latest lockbox prices
My favorite builds are actually almost Two years old now. I've been forced out of one of my favorites, thanks to the new fleet mvam.
My eng's old AC build was also 1.8 months old. I only changed it because I wanted the healing power of a starcruiser, the essentials of the build however are Identical to what they were back then.
Also I had a semi revelation in the shower this morning. My eng is my best toon to run glider 24/7 on thanks to the myriad of resists and self heals. (and nadion will keep the weapon power overcapped easy)
That's great, see how you like it after two years, with the same skills and builds.
<SNIP>
Just like playing a tac for over 2 years. Eng healer is sort of new content at this point.
The point is moot however. I don't plan on staying around much at the end of oct. I will pop in once and a while though.
REMOVE PVPER remove PVPER
you are worst hacker. you are the hacker idiot you are the hax smell. return to wow. to our wow cousins you may come our contry. you may live in the zoo?.ahahahaha ,stopve we will never forgeve you. hacking rascal **** but **** ******* pvper stink pve sqhipere shqipare..pvper genocide best day of my life. take a bath of dead pvper..ahahahahah premade WE WILL GET YOU!! do not forget .pvers we kill the king , pve return to your precious premade?.hahahahaha idiot pvper and hax smell so bad..wow i can smell it. REMOVE PRAMDE FROM THE PREMISES. you will get caught. pvp+stf+elitepve=hax smell?you will pve/ era alive in pvp, era making premade of sto. fast pve era pvp. we are rich and have gold now hahahaha ha because of cryptic? you are ppoor stink pvper? you live in a hovel hahahaha, you live in a yurt
dstahl alive numbr one #1 in pve?.**** the pvpers,..****k ashol pvper no good i spit in the mouth eye of ur game and permade. dstahl aliv and real strong wizard kill all the pvpers farm aminal with dev magic now we the pvers rule .ape of the zoo mai kai fukc the great satan and lay egg this egg hatch and pve wa;s born. stupid baby form the eggn give bak our devpost we will crush u lik a skull of pig. pve greattst gametyp.
.The Spanish Inquisition. TSI -- Star Trek Online PvP Vidoes (Youtube) /channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match.
REMOVE PVPER remove PVPER
you are worst hacker. you are the hacker idiot you are the hax smell. return to wow. to our wow cousins you may come our contry. you may live in the zoo?.ahahahaha ,stopve we will never forgeve you. hacking rascal **** but **** ******* pvper stink pve sqhipere shqipare..pvper genocide best day of my life. take a bath of dead pvper..ahahahahah premade WE WILL GET YOU!! do not forget .pvers we kill the king , pve return to your precious premade?.hahahahaha idiot pvper and hax smell so bad..wow i can smell it. REMOVE PRAMDE FROM THE PREMISES. you will get caught. pvp+stf+elitepve=hax smell?you will pve/ era alive in pvp, era making premade of sto. fast pve era pvp. we are rich and have gold now hahahaha ha because of cryptic? you are ppoor stink pvper? you live in a hovel hahahaha, you live in a yurt
dstahl alive numbr one #1 in pve?.**** the pvpers,..****k ashol pvper no good i spit in the mouth eye of ur game and permade. dstahl aliv and real strong wizard kill all the pvpers farm aminal with dev magic now we the pvers rule .ape of the zoo mai kai fukc the great satan and lay egg this egg hatch and pve wa;s born. stupid baby form the eggn give bak our devpost we will crush u lik a skull of pig. pve greattst gametyp.
you make a compelling argument, this gives me much to consider
Egos and an unwarranted sense of smugness in game and on forums doesn't kill pvp...it gives regular players cancer.
it doesn't take much to run 3 scorts (normally jemmies) a sci and healer. Use teamspeak for basic coordination, Then "lawlll we are soo epic!! We cannot be destroyed! Our power levels are over 9000!!!!!!"
It's these people who kill pvp by dictating to the rest of the game via forums and their agenda driven in game chat rooms what is and isn't acceptable in pvp, anytime they don't have the upper hand, "that's fcking cheese!! That's broken!!! Balanceeee somebody think of the balance!!!! Yet when it's working for them nobody wants to bat a ****in eyelid, nobody says anything!
How about **** you and your premade squads telling the sto community what we can and cannot use? It's because you all use the same ****ing cookie cutter builds developed by one or two guys that will only work against people who play by your imaginary rules.
Your shaking and your scared to run a team that is unorthodox, you call it cheese you call it broken or unbalanced, but i have seen teams destroy people using what you call cheese or op or unbalanced tactics... So why can't you do it? Because you lack the skill or intellect to put together a buiild and team that wasn't done for you by somone else.
Egos and an unwarranted sense of smugness in game and on forums doesn't kill pvp...it gives regular players cancer.
You call it smugness, we call it experience. How long have you been playing?
it doesn't take much to run 3 scorts (normally jemmies) a sci and healer. Use teamspeak for basic coordination, Then "lawlll we are soo epic!! We cannot be destroyed! Our power levels are over 9000!!!!!!"
You are absolutely correct. It doesn't take much to run that. It doesn't take much to get stomped into the ground by a more sci-heavy team. There is a reason taking more than 1 or 2 tacscorts can be risky. A lesson I was reminded of just last night.
It's these people who kill pvp by dictating to the rest of the game via forums and their agenda driven in game chat rooms what is and isn't acceptable in pvp, anytime they don't have the upper hand, "that's fcking cheese!! That's broken!!! Balanceeee somebody think of the balance!!!! Yet when it's working for them nobody wants to bat a ****in eyelid, nobody says anything!
How about **** you and your premade squads telling the sto community what we can and cannot use? It's because you all use the same ****ing cookie cutter builds developed by one or two guys that will only work against people who play by your imaginary rules.
Huh? You call them cookie cutter. We call them optimized. People that are successful in PvP are usually min/maxed to the extreme. Nobody said you couldn't use your rainbow build, we just said not to be surprised when you die over and over and can't score a kill.
For the cheese. Spam makes PvP unfun. It slows down video cards, clutters the screen and removes much of the enjoyment that you can find in a balanced match... which can be epic. This sounds like you crying about your own abilities more than anything.
Your shaking and your scared to run a team that is unorthodox, you call it cheese you call it broken or unbalanced, but i have seen teams destroy people using what you call cheese or op or unbalanced tactics... So why can't you do it? Because you lack the skill or intellect to put together a buiild and team that wasn't done for you by somone else.
Who's scared? We just know it's not necessary to win. Also, equipping universal consoles and certain sets also reduces your effectiveness in other areas, so it is not always wise.
I also know of very few teams that run cookie-cutter setups, most are fairly unique. Most of the builds you see in the PvP forums are generalized to help new players get started in PvP on the right foot. 3 years of playing can give you an idea of what does and doesn't work. Why does the fact that we pass on our knowledge and experience, to help others, bother you so much?
it doesn't take much to run 3 scorts (normally jemmies) a sci and healer. Use teamspeak for basic coordination, Then "lawlll we are soo epic!! We cannot be destroyed! Our power levels are over 9000!!!!!!"
Oh boy, this never gets old. PvErs often make the claim that winning in PvP is easy if you just run 'X'. The ironic thing is their advice is always completely and totally wrong, and if you follow it you'll get stomped.
There are lots of people who don't have outdated computers and who like having "spam" on their side. There is absolutely no reason to limit "spam" just because some very loud community members don't like it.
The same is true for all the other "OP" stuff. The Danubes were completely okay. Phaser procs were completely okay. Energy siphon drones are completely okay. The debuffing energy weapons officers are completely okay
Egos and an unwarranted sense of smugness in game and on forums doesn't kill pvp...it gives regular players cancer.
it doesn't take much to run 3 scorts (normally jemmies) a sci and healer. Use teamspeak for basic coordination, Then "lawlll we are soo epic!! We cannot be destroyed! Our power levels are over 9000!!!!!!"
It's these people who kill pvp by dictating to the rest of the game via forums and their agenda driven in game chat rooms what is and isn't acceptable in pvp, anytime they don't have the upper hand, "that's fcking cheese!! That's broken!!! Balanceeee somebody think of the balance!!!! Yet when it's working for them nobody wants to bat a ****in eyelid, nobody says anything!
How about **** you and your premade squads telling the sto community what we can and cannot use? It's because you all use the same ****ing cookie cutter builds developed by one or two guys that will only work against people who play by your imaginary rules.
Your shaking and your scared to run a team that is unorthodox, you call it cheese you call it broken or unbalanced, but i have seen teams destroy people using what you call cheese or op or unbalanced tactics... So why can't you do it? Because you lack the skill or intellect to put together a buiild and team that wasn't done for you by somone else.
Unorthodox teams and builds are merely those ideas that have not been fine tuned to work so well as to become cookie cutter in the end.
Your ignorance of this is a mockery to your complaints.
Bring your unorthodox ideas to PvP, pratice and fight with them in the ques. Build and refine your ideas so they work and find function in both a team and a individual setting in PvP.
Proof your ideas have validity and perform well to achieve victory.
If you can accomplish all this and prove the rightness of your ideas of the unorthodox, then you too will have achieved a cookie cutter status.
All ideas for PvP are unorthodox in the begining until they are proven possible and tweaked to function well, then they become cookie cutter.
Cookie Cutter is just the sum of an idea that works.
Stop assuming that all ideas should be valid by defualt and prove that yours are valid in function or do not PvP.
Achieve this, find your ideas place in PvP and I gaurantee you will also display ego and smugness, confident that your ideas not only work but are well and firmly grounded in game mechanics.
Otherwise its cry that the existing ideas of PvP'ers before you that have been tested and proven right our just cookie cutter and hide from PvP like a child from a darkened closet firmly set that the boogeyman waits inside.
Prove yourself, your claims, step up and fight or be seen for the voice of blind hate that your appear to be.
bitemepwe please read the post I made thoroughly before smashing your reply buttons in order to salvage mass approval from the blind. You will probably skim my post before replying, so in order to help you out, I will * Before anything important k?
Any ludicrous ad-hominem attacks on me are being ignored as those who tend to frequent this forum having a proven track record of resorting to flaming and troll baiting once there point has been made and is brushed off as mere fluff by anyone who has more than a single braincell.
If you have something intelligent to say... please do so, otherwise go back to OPVP and get them noses brown
I am a PVPer with several toons both factions. I have been here since open beta. I can run cookie cutter builds like anyone of you, just because I dont have a million posts on forums does not mean I do not frequent them, does not mean I do not attempt new builds, tactics via experimentation and or theory of game mechanics.
*This is the part you might want to read =D
My point is that these premade teams (that are 95% FED) are trying to dictate WHAT is acceptable in PVP and in general the things they write off as cheese are the tactics / equipment that requires them to CHANGE there dime-a-dozen builds in order to counter.
I have been in SEVERAL premade matches where equipment, they would call cheese, op, broken or unbalanced is used and they have NO chance to win and they resort to crying, making foul forums posts and generally unsporting like comments.
So yes, the cookie cutter builds that you probably use ARE efficient at winning, but ONLY against those who agree to the same standard of accepted equipment / tactics.
Does this make sense to you or shall I make you a flowchart?
I have been in SEVERAL premade matches where equipment, they would call cheese, op, broken or unbalanced is used and they have NO chance to win and they resort to crying, making foul forums posts and generally unsporting like comments.
Does this make sense to you or shall I make you a flowchart?
Yeah, you sure pwn the TRIBBLE out of those awesome ships in Alhena.
Any of the prominent teams in this forum would teabag you even with a gimped setup.
And if they brought an all cheese setup? You'd probably throw your computer out the window.
How about **** you and your premade squads telling the sto community what we can and cannot use? It's because you all use the same ****ing cookie cutter builds developed by one or two guys that will only work against people who play by your imaginary rules.
Yes precious snowflake, you have singularly figured out the special setups that no one has ever thought of before! Only you could have ever figured it out. Omg you are so great, too bad no one could ever have recognized this amazing perfectly balanced combo before! /s
Seriously? Your complete ignorance of premade strategy and pvp is showing. Most premades are very unique and even something like healer builds vary greatly from team to team. Bieber's heal setup on his Orb is drastically different from mine. Ilhanks Oddy setup is very different from Duncans and that's on the same ship doing the same job. Only a complete novice with little to no real experience would think that premades setups are cookie cutter.
Most setups evolve incrementally. The "superunique" unorthodox setups have been tried, you didn't just figure it out, sorry. And yes, a cheese build with danubes, graviton, ams spamming TRIBBLE can roll pugs, whoop-ti-do. Premades in general don't run with TRIBBLE because of 3 reasons.
1- It doesn't change the outcome of a fight, it often just prolongs it. And premade matches already can run 1.5 hours + for one match.
2- If your uncoordinated, crappy team can win with it, what do you think happens when an experienced, well built premade runs with it? Here's a hint, if that one guy on your team running AMS and Jevonite has an advantage imagine 5 people chaining it and grav and 4 ships running danubes in tandem. Do you honestly think we can't get 4 Karfis with rapid fire, leach, siphons and tractors together every night and shoot fish in a barrel? :P
3- The most OP things in game remove personal skill and substitute AOE abilities and chance based happenings. Premades in general want to win on skill, not "we had pets spam phaser procs to instapop an opponent". There is no pride or enjoyment in stomping pugs, similarly there are no bragging rights associated with winning a match based on chance based procs, chain tractoring pets, or killing people with no power because resist mechanics don't work properly.
The amusing thing is that in queues we commonly destroy teams that exploit every cheesy mechanic known. These other teams actually hinder their development by relying on crappy balanced abilities to roll pugs instead of developing actual skill and complementary builds that would help them in premade matches. Then they look like fools by coming here and spouting about how the pvp community is trying to hold their awesomeness back. :rolleyes:
Egos and an unwarranted sense of smugness in game and on forums doesn't kill pvp...it gives regular players cancer.
it doesn't take much to run 3 scorts (normally jemmies) a sci and healer. Use teamspeak for basic coordination, Then "lawlll we are soo epic!! We cannot be destroyed! Our power levels are over 9000!!!!!!"
It's these people who kill pvp by dictating to the rest of the game via forums and their agenda driven in game chat rooms what is and isn't acceptable in pvp, anytime they don't have the upper hand, "that's fcking cheese!! That's broken!!! Balanceeee somebody think of the balance!!!! Yet when it's working for them nobody wants to bat a ****in eyelid, nobody says anything!
How about **** you and your premade squads telling the sto community what we can and cannot use? It's because you all use the same ****ing cookie cutter builds developed by one or two guys that will only work against people who play by your imaginary rules.
Your shaking and your scared to run a team that is unorthodox, you call it cheese you call it broken or unbalanced, but i have seen teams destroy people using what you call cheese or op or unbalanced tactics... So why can't you do it? Because you lack the skill or intellect to put together a buiild and team that wasn't done for you by somone else.
LOL 3 Escorts. LMFAO OMG.
You and yours aren't very good if you can't just utterly crush 3 Escorts under the weight of sci power and healing. At Most you take 2 Escorts if you're serious about pvp. And then you better have a Very strong primary healer, and very capable secondaries in the sci captains. (as in plural)
None of us are scared to run off the wall teams, infact most of us on a given night Pugmade. Where we just group up with whatever we have and go with it. That we roll your sorry TRIBBLE 15 and 0, is just indicative of your own skill level after the fact. And I really hate to tell you this any "non conventional" team you come up with? We can and will beat it. Hard.
Most of us don't even hop on vent anymore when we pug made either. Because we know how to work together. We can follow each others target, those of us that roll tacs know when to ramp up alphas, because the Nuke is going to be dropped. Most of us sci on the real Premade level know exactly when to dump a nuke. Making a 1 -2 punch that leaves a target vaporized afterwards.
We'll hit it so hard we'll beat the brakes off of it.
Also, I hate to break this to you Champ, but most Premades? We all have differing combat styles. Even things like our Healers can vary tremendously. Bieber runs a full on heal bot Oddy. I run a mirrorstarcruiser (cause I can't stand the lack of speed and agility of the oddy), that focuses about as much on CC as it does raw healing potential. Which again, differs greatly from Crimsons healing Recluse which spams nothing but raw healing #s.
To say nothing of our sci theories, and Escort builds. Different fleets approach the game differently. That there's a pool of common used powers, state quite clearly I think which abilities get used and which discarded.
The only thing killing pvp, are the morons and facerollers that ***** whine and moan rather than suck it up, because Pve tells them they are awesome and people like yourself that found a possible One Trick Pony build, that thinks it's a great substitute for your lack of ability and ingenuity.
it took years to get them egos to where they are, and only seconds to decimate another team with a premade... :P
That attitude comes off as arrogant and obnoxious... but what do you, or others who have 'earned' the right to come off TRIBBLE d bags care? Yourself, get over it.
So much butthurt and anal malfeasance in this thread its actually a pretty sad state of affairs that the valid points I make in regards to a few pvpers "making" the rules on what is and isn't acceptable turns into a flame war about, "omfg I can run a pug and faceroll you 15-0"
Who the **** are you to make assumptions about my build(s)? have you EVER played against me? Dont just assume I wouldnt straight up sht on your brain kid. Talking **** on forum is easy, how about backing up some of those big words with some action?
Comments
Look buddy, complain at Cryptic.
We dont like to PuGstomp just as much as any other premade doesnt like it. It makes PvP boring.
But hey, you cannot deny us to play now can you.
Again, complain at Cryptic. At times when there are 2 Fleet premades running the queues, and 1 Opvp pugmade has been set up together, the system still isnt smart enough by queuing up these teams against each other. Not our fault is it? The queue system simply isnst smart enough.
-MT
Nice sum up, completely agree.
now let me sum up the reason why a pug always fails horrible 15-0, or why most matches (99% of the time end up in a boring 15-0)
I cant think of any more.
Yes.. Iceheart and all of my CC heal cruisers are all a complete and total myth and don't exist what so ever :rolleyes: 5 engis vs almost anything (save 5 sci) has always been that way. 5 eng vs 3 sci and a tac or better yet pair of tacs = dead engies. Or you go deep and go 4 sci one tac and just roll the sub nukes in sequentially. Those five engies aren't going to be getting any kills true, but given just how rare eng captains have always been, that team up almost never happens randomly. You pretty much have to Try to get five engs in one team deliberately.
The eng allows a given team to run more Aggressive setups, and or to provide extra DPS which is constant. Mine, provides extra CC, while backing up with great healing capability. (it still runs over capped weapon power as well) If you can't see how being able to run a more aggressive team, against the mountain of healing in STO is useful maybe you should move onto another game, because you're so bitter at this point that you can't see the forest for the trees. Go watch my healer Demo. And tell me my eng didn't contribute in anyway shape or form to that match. I have hundreds if not thousands of other matches, where I actually tried and my contributions were genuinely larger.
If I dropped my plas 3 for an ASIF3, I could support 2 Escorts with the aid of 2 Sci and I don't even have an Oddy. Just the old plain jane starcruiser. Heck if i dropped my RSP for an ASIF1 I could probably support 2 scorts. I certainly have the endurance capability to get away with it thanks to the freebies that I get as an eng captain. I know for sure as it is I can support a Scort and a Tac Cruiser, with 2 sci on the field with me.
Outside of the Oddy, the Nebula is the best pure heal boat the feds have. (non lockbox) it's also capable of mounting VM3, which is something the oddy as of right now can not do. It's also considerably quicker so if it wanted to go a hair more aggressive it could with Plas1
the same applies for the Dkyr.
Yup, pretty much
Yup Oddy has invalidate the Nebbie, that extra VM3 does not make up for lack of ES3. Atrox equally brings more cc then the nebbie with similar or better healing.
one eng per team and he has the choice of one heal setup with minor variations according to ship skin.
Seriously, plasma with an eng, without tac buffs?
If your engs were that awesome, where have been the teams with more then one?, How about engs in different ships then heal cruisers? Engs are a waist, yes a good player gets mileage out of them, but as you said yourself, 6mio healing from a recluse doesn;t need an eng to be deliver, maxing out energy equally doesn't need an eng, and the pressure dmg, doesn't do squad thanks to yoyo healing and BFI. At then end you need sci and tac to get anything done.
If your engs are that great, how come i only see you in your tacs? Uhh and all the great ships that have been released for engs? At the end craptic will do nothing to address this, so who cares anymore?? See you at MWO.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Yes plas without tac buffs. The best part of warp plasma is the Slow (which can become a Stop with the antimatter doff) it always has been. If you're relying solely on plasma to do damage for you, your build is terrible. Especially if you're a tac.
You shouldn't field a team with more than 2 tacs either. Clearly tacs must be underpowered garbage. Especially since you need at least 2 sci players at all times.
Again see comment about needing only one Cleric per five man team in RIFT or other mmo of your choice. It's not that hard to figure.
Because I'm a Damage, or Crowd Control player at heart. Those are my two specialities in mmos. I just don't enjoy healing (though I do enjoy it more in STO than I did most other titles). I actually play my eng more frequently than I do my Sci captain. And I certainly play it more than my lolground toons. So, I must enjoy something about the eng captain and the Skjald.
KK, let's just make sure that sci and tac have all ship classes available too them, in multiple "narrow" combinations.
After checking some pvp build threads I realize that starcruiser and AC builds on an oddy, is really all that is needed for engs especially when bringing more then one, doesn't make much sense.
Have fun with the cruisers
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
PVP community +1
Thanks for the help, see you in the que.
-Maverick
Idk, I like playing my eng healer. I receive quite a few PM'S thanking me. Anymore I play my tac for the lulz.
That's great, see how you like it after two years, with the same skills and builds.
IN other news, the USS GanGNaM will be making an appearance soon(tm) and yes its an eng/cruiser.....at least it has a dabo table, since i doubt that pvp will be much fun with the latest lockbox prices
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
If they can't handle the heat...
I remember a cold dark scary night when I was lost in a sea of confusion, Kedric saved me too lol.
OP! Op op op op...
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
My favorite builds are actually almost Two years old now. I've been forced out of one of my favorites, thanks to the new fleet mvam.
My eng's old AC build was also 1.8 months old. I only changed it because I wanted the healing power of a starcruiser, the essentials of the build however are Identical to what they were back then.
Also I had a semi revelation in the shower this morning. My eng is my best toon to run glider 24/7 on thanks to the myriad of resists and self heals. (and nadion will keep the weapon power overcapped easy)
Just like playing a tac for over 2 years. Eng healer is sort of new content at this point.
The point is moot however. I don't plan on staying around much at the end of oct. I will pop in once and a while though.
you are worst hacker. you are the hacker idiot you are the hax smell. return to wow. to our wow cousins you may come our contry. you may live in the zoo?.ahahahaha ,stopve we will never forgeve you. hacking rascal **** but **** ******* pvper stink pve sqhipere shqipare..pvper genocide best day of my life. take a bath of dead pvper..ahahahahah premade WE WILL GET YOU!! do not forget .pvers we kill the king , pve return to your precious premade?.hahahahaha idiot pvper and hax smell so bad..wow i can smell it. REMOVE PRAMDE FROM THE PREMISES. you will get caught. pvp+stf+elitepve=hax smell?you will pve/ era alive in pvp, era making premade of sto. fast pve era pvp. we are rich and have gold now hahahaha ha because of cryptic? you are ppoor stink pvper? you live in a hovel hahahaha, you live in a yurt
dstahl alive numbr one #1 in pve?.**** the pvpers,..****k ashol pvper no good i spit in the mouth eye of ur game and permade. dstahl aliv and real strong wizard kill all the pvpers farm aminal with dev magic now we the pvers rule .ape of the zoo mai kai fukc the great satan and lay egg this egg hatch and pve wa;s born. stupid baby form the eggn give bak our devpost we will crush u lik a skull of pig. pve greattst gametyp.
TSI -- Star Trek Online PvP Vidoes (Youtube)
/channel_join OrganizedPVP If you are interested in learning PVP, looking for a team, or a private match.
you make a compelling argument, this gives me much to consider
it took years to get them egos to where they are, and only seconds to decimate another team with a premade... :P
it doesn't take much to run 3 scorts (normally jemmies) a sci and healer. Use teamspeak for basic coordination, Then "lawlll we are soo epic!! We cannot be destroyed! Our power levels are over 9000!!!!!!"
It's these people who kill pvp by dictating to the rest of the game via forums and their agenda driven in game chat rooms what is and isn't acceptable in pvp, anytime they don't have the upper hand, "that's fcking cheese!! That's broken!!! Balanceeee somebody think of the balance!!!! Yet when it's working for them nobody wants to bat a ****in eyelid, nobody says anything!
How about **** you and your premade squads telling the sto community what we can and cannot use? It's because you all use the same ****ing cookie cutter builds developed by one or two guys that will only work against people who play by your imaginary rules.
Your shaking and your scared to run a team that is unorthodox, you call it cheese you call it broken or unbalanced, but i have seen teams destroy people using what you call cheese or op or unbalanced tactics... So why can't you do it? Because you lack the skill or intellect to put together a buiild and team that wasn't done for you by somone else.
You call it smugness, we call it experience. How long have you been playing?
You are absolutely correct. It doesn't take much to run that. It doesn't take much to get stomped into the ground by a more sci-heavy team. There is a reason taking more than 1 or 2 tacscorts can be risky. A lesson I was reminded of just last night.
Huh? You call them cookie cutter. We call them optimized. People that are successful in PvP are usually min/maxed to the extreme. Nobody said you couldn't use your rainbow build, we just said not to be surprised when you die over and over and can't score a kill.
For the cheese. Spam makes PvP unfun. It slows down video cards, clutters the screen and removes much of the enjoyment that you can find in a balanced match... which can be epic. This sounds like you crying about your own abilities more than anything.
Who's scared? We just know it's not necessary to win. Also, equipping universal consoles and certain sets also reduces your effectiveness in other areas, so it is not always wise.
I also know of very few teams that run cookie-cutter setups, most are fairly unique. Most of the builds you see in the PvP forums are generalized to help new players get started in PvP on the right foot. 3 years of playing can give you an idea of what does and doesn't work. Why does the fact that we pass on our knowledge and experience, to help others, bother you so much?
Oh boy, this never gets old. PvErs often make the claim that winning in PvP is easy if you just run 'X'. The ironic thing is their advice is always completely and totally wrong, and if you follow it you'll get stomped.
You say some of the dumbest things...
Unorthodox teams and builds are merely those ideas that have not been fine tuned to work so well as to become cookie cutter in the end.
Your ignorance of this is a mockery to your complaints.
Bring your unorthodox ideas to PvP, pratice and fight with them in the ques. Build and refine your ideas so they work and find function in both a team and a individual setting in PvP.
Proof your ideas have validity and perform well to achieve victory.
If you can accomplish all this and prove the rightness of your ideas of the unorthodox, then you too will have achieved a cookie cutter status.
All ideas for PvP are unorthodox in the begining until they are proven possible and tweaked to function well, then they become cookie cutter.
Cookie Cutter is just the sum of an idea that works.
Stop assuming that all ideas should be valid by defualt and prove that yours are valid in function or do not PvP.
Achieve this, find your ideas place in PvP and I gaurantee you will also display ego and smugness, confident that your ideas not only work but are well and firmly grounded in game mechanics.
Otherwise its cry that the existing ideas of PvP'ers before you that have been tested and proven right our just cookie cutter and hide from PvP like a child from a darkened closet firmly set that the boogeyman waits inside.
Prove yourself, your claims, step up and fight or be seen for the voice of blind hate that your appear to be.
R.I.P
Any ludicrous ad-hominem attacks on me are being ignored as those who tend to frequent this forum having a proven track record of resorting to flaming and troll baiting once there point has been made and is brushed off as mere fluff by anyone who has more than a single braincell.
If you have something intelligent to say... please do so, otherwise go back to OPVP and get them noses brown
I am a PVPer with several toons both factions. I have been here since open beta. I can run cookie cutter builds like anyone of you, just because I dont have a million posts on forums does not mean I do not frequent them, does not mean I do not attempt new builds, tactics via experimentation and or theory of game mechanics.
*This is the part you might want to read =D
My point is that these premade teams (that are 95% FED) are trying to dictate WHAT is acceptable in PVP and in general the things they write off as cheese are the tactics / equipment that requires them to CHANGE there dime-a-dozen builds in order to counter.
I have been in SEVERAL premade matches where equipment, they would call cheese, op, broken or unbalanced is used and they have NO chance to win and they resort to crying, making foul forums posts and generally unsporting like comments.
So yes, the cookie cutter builds that you probably use ARE efficient at winning, but ONLY against those who agree to the same standard of accepted equipment / tactics.
Does this make sense to you or shall I make you a flowchart?
Yeah, you sure pwn the TRIBBLE out of those awesome ships in Alhena.
Any of the prominent teams in this forum would teabag you even with a gimped setup.
And if they brought an all cheese setup? You'd probably throw your computer out the window.
Everything you said was bull****, except the above.. Actually I welcome that. Thanks for your intelligent reply (!)
Yes precious snowflake, you have singularly figured out the special setups that no one has ever thought of before! Only you could have ever figured it out. Omg you are so great, too bad no one could ever have recognized this amazing perfectly balanced combo before! /s
Seriously? Your complete ignorance of premade strategy and pvp is showing. Most premades are very unique and even something like healer builds vary greatly from team to team. Bieber's heal setup on his Orb is drastically different from mine. Ilhanks Oddy setup is very different from Duncans and that's on the same ship doing the same job. Only a complete novice with little to no real experience would think that premades setups are cookie cutter.
Most setups evolve incrementally. The "superunique" unorthodox setups have been tried, you didn't just figure it out, sorry. And yes, a cheese build with danubes, graviton, ams spamming TRIBBLE can roll pugs, whoop-ti-do. Premades in general don't run with TRIBBLE because of 3 reasons.
1- It doesn't change the outcome of a fight, it often just prolongs it. And premade matches already can run 1.5 hours + for one match.
2- If your uncoordinated, crappy team can win with it, what do you think happens when an experienced, well built premade runs with it? Here's a hint, if that one guy on your team running AMS and Jevonite has an advantage imagine 5 people chaining it and grav and 4 ships running danubes in tandem. Do you honestly think we can't get 4 Karfis with rapid fire, leach, siphons and tractors together every night and shoot fish in a barrel? :P
3- The most OP things in game remove personal skill and substitute AOE abilities and chance based happenings. Premades in general want to win on skill, not "we had pets spam phaser procs to instapop an opponent". There is no pride or enjoyment in stomping pugs, similarly there are no bragging rights associated with winning a match based on chance based procs, chain tractoring pets, or killing people with no power because resist mechanics don't work properly.
The amusing thing is that in queues we commonly destroy teams that exploit every cheesy mechanic known. These other teams actually hinder their development by relying on crappy balanced abilities to roll pugs instead of developing actual skill and complementary builds that would help them in premade matches. Then they look like fools by coming here and spouting about how the pvp community is trying to hold their awesomeness back. :rolleyes:
LOL 3 Escorts. LMFAO OMG.
You and yours aren't very good if you can't just utterly crush 3 Escorts under the weight of sci power and healing. At Most you take 2 Escorts if you're serious about pvp. And then you better have a Very strong primary healer, and very capable secondaries in the sci captains. (as in plural)
None of us are scared to run off the wall teams, infact most of us on a given night Pugmade. Where we just group up with whatever we have and go with it. That we roll your sorry TRIBBLE 15 and 0, is just indicative of your own skill level after the fact. And I really hate to tell you this any "non conventional" team you come up with? We can and will beat it. Hard.
Most of us don't even hop on vent anymore when we pug made either. Because we know how to work together. We can follow each others target, those of us that roll tacs know when to ramp up alphas, because the Nuke is going to be dropped. Most of us sci on the real Premade level know exactly when to dump a nuke. Making a 1 -2 punch that leaves a target vaporized afterwards.
We'll hit it so hard we'll beat the brakes off of it.
Also, I hate to break this to you Champ, but most Premades? We all have differing combat styles. Even things like our Healers can vary tremendously. Bieber runs a full on heal bot Oddy. I run a mirrorstarcruiser (cause I can't stand the lack of speed and agility of the oddy), that focuses about as much on CC as it does raw healing potential. Which again, differs greatly from Crimsons healing Recluse which spams nothing but raw healing #s.
To say nothing of our sci theories, and Escort builds. Different fleets approach the game differently. That there's a pool of common used powers, state quite clearly I think which abilities get used and which discarded.
The only thing killing pvp, are the morons and facerollers that ***** whine and moan rather than suck it up, because Pve tells them they are awesome and people like yourself that found a possible One Trick Pony build, that thinks it's a great substitute for your lack of ability and ingenuity.
That attitude comes off as arrogant and obnoxious... but what do you, or others who have 'earned' the right to come off TRIBBLE d bags care? Yourself, get over it.
Who the **** are you to make assumptions about my build(s)? have you EVER played against me? Dont just assume I wouldnt straight up sht on your brain kid. Talking **** on forum is easy, how about backing up some of those big words with some action?