Base turn rate isn't the only determinant in a ships overall turn rate, it is combined with the ships "inertia" stat. Take a Soverign or Regent and put the same gear in it that you put in an Excelsior and you will have an average of a 2.5 degree turn rate deficit, yet the base turn rate is only 1 degree separation. Why? The Regent/Sovy' has an inertial value of 40, while the Excelsior has an inertial value of 30. The higher a ships inertia, the harder it is for it to overcome its weight(inertia) to accelerate/turn. This is why Klingon (lighter) battle-cruisers and the Excelsior are so much better for turning and the Bortas(qu)/ Oddy and Galaxies are so sluggish. Its a combination of base turn rate and the inertial value.
Are you certain?
For example the Star Cruiser has a 15 Inertia versus the Vorcha refit of 30. Yet the Star Cruiser turns worse.
Also did anybody take Impulse speed into account when they try to turn thier cruisers? Turning at full impulse is always a slow process for any cruiser and gets easier (and tighter in radius) as one backs down on the impulse speed.
As well engine power levels will be a factor. Higher the engine power the easier the turning.
a single point of base turn rate is a huge deal. everything that buffs turn rate is multiplied by that base. in a vorcha with 10 base, i can have a high 20s turn rate easily. in my ktinga with its 11 base, i can even get mid 30s with 4 turn consoles, low 30s with 3. the excelsior with an 8 base? basically cant get over 20.
1 or 2 points makes a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference.
Then buff Cruisers and Battle Cruiser 1-2 points in turn across the board. The feds gain more nimble cruisers and the KDF loses nothing because of the change.
False. You're trying to make balance = identical. That's not it at all. Balance across the entire faction is already there. Across all ship classes. You're just whining for a more manueverable cruiser. That's not balance, not by a long shot.
P.S. PvP is so broken and boring it should NOT be the measure to base things upon. It isn't the reason people play this game. It's an afterthought. You look at the history of the development of this game and that's abundantly clear.
PVP isn't even a complete after thought... just saying. :rolleyes:
I got a weird bug here, it seems that i can't go beyond page 17.
Klicking on Page 18, entering the page manually doesn't help eihter. If anyone knows what i can do, please send me a PM.
EDIT: strange, i can see this Post at page 17, althrough i can see the index going to page 19...
OT: since they introduce the 29th century time ship, the devs seem to abandon all and connection to canon and believeabilty from this game.
So canon references seem no longer to matter anymore at all.
on the cruiser case, let me just say that as long as they stay that much static and passive, they are just boring ships, althrough i like them (in Star trek canon) the most.
Thank you for reading.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I got a weird bug here, it seems that i can't go beyond page 17.
Klicking on Page 18, entering the page manually doesn't help eihter. If anyone knows what i can do, please send me a PM.
Thank you for reading.
I get the feeling they don't actually exist. Perhaps that damn spammer somehow broke the thread because he posted 2 pages of the same thing.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
I get the feeling they don't actually exist. Perhaps that damn spammer somehow broke the thread because he posted 2 pages of the same thing.
Thanks , i was afraid that the error could be on m end. I recently had some weird bugs and errors at STO.
Thank you for reading.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
For example the Star Cruiser has a 15 Inertia versus the Vorcha refit of 30. Yet the Star Cruiser turns worse.
Also did anybody take Impulse speed into account when they try to turn thier cruisers? Turning at full impulse is always a slow process for any cruiser and gets easier (and tighter in radius) as one backs down on the impulse speed.
As well engine power levels will be a factor. Higher the engine power the easier the turning.
You are correct Roach, I had it backwards, the higher the inertia factor the easier it is to overcome its weight, good catch.
In regards to impulse speed, I bench test my ships at "wide open throttle" (not "full impulse") to have a consistent result (because of throttling up down variances).
You are correct Roach, I had it backwards, the higher the inertia factor the easier it is to overcome its weight, good catch.
In regards to impulse speed, I bench test my ships at "wide open throttle" (not "full impulse") to have a consistent result (because of throttling up down variances).
You know, if lower intertia were better the oddy and bort would be the most nimble ships in the game XD. Hence why I knew that it wasn't the case, sorry for not posting earlier on that. I think both of them have an inertia rating of like 5 or something like that. Basically they go "Turn? Ok, we'll be facing that way next week, so don't wait up for us."
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Well, I actually think that the turnarate is not what matters. I mean I'm fine with the cruiser turnrate in sub-warp as it is - even though we see at least the Enterprise-D had some gizmo techniques to fast-turn when needed the Gal is still the biggest canon cruiser Starfleet has. It shouldn't be equal in turnrate to the smaller ships or battlecruisers on the red side. That's why those are battlecruisers
The problem with the Gals in particular is the BOFF layout and overall usefulness. Due to saucer seperation you can improve the turnarate already but that doesn't really help improving her weaknesses. Besides, why does the seperation imrpove the turnrate anyway? XD
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Increased the Turn rate of the Escort, Escort Refit, Escort Retrofit and Fleet Escort Retrofit by 1.
The devs really must have some weird kind of humor. Would it have hurt anyone if cruisers would have got a little more turnrate? Just 2 or 3 degrees more wouldn't make them OP or something.
I think there's a reason why the first thing we see when starting STO, is our character standing on the bridge of a Escort...
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
You know, if lower intertia were better the oddy and bort would be the most nimble ships in the game XD. Hence why I knew that it wasn't the case, sorry for not posting earlier on that. I think both of them have an inertia rating of like 5 or something like that. Basically they go "Turn? Ok, we'll be facing that way next week, so don't wait up for us."
Yeah, my brain had it in reverse:
Excel: 40
Regent/Sovy:30
Star Cruiser: 15
Galaxy: "i" :P
so its probably something like:
(Base Turn Rate * Inertia rating) + engine power +rcs + char mods = actual turn rate
The devs really must have some weird kind of humor. Would it have hurt anyone if cruisers would have got a little more turnrate? Just 2 or 3 degrees more wouldn't make them OP or something.
I think there's a reason why the first thing we see when starting STO, is our character standing on the bridge of a Escort...
I did see that in the notes and thought about this forum.
Well, I actually think that the turnarate is not what matters. I mean I'm fine with the cruiser turnrate in sub-warp as it is - even though we see at least the Enterprise-D had some gizmo techniques to fast-turn when needed the Gal is still the biggest canon cruiser Starfleet has. It shouldn't be equal in turnrate to the smaller ships or battlecruisers on the red side. That's why those are battlecruisers
The problem with the Gals in particular is the BOFF layout and overall usefulness. Due to saucer seperation you can improve the turnarate already but that doesn't really help improving her weaknesses. Besides, why does the seperation imrpove the turnrate anyway? XD
Because there is less mass (thus inertia) for the ship to overcome when accelerating or turning.
As far as the fast turns in the show; Aux to ID1, EM(1,2 or 3), and engine batteries can do that too.
As far as the boff layout; DEM2-3, EWP2-3, and some others add some firepower to a ship with multiples of lt. commander and commander engie spots.
You might have something here, but not the turn rate. Galaxy has an ~8% bonus in hull over the Vor'cha, while the KDF has a ~16.6% bonus to turning, which is likely what they were intending when they designed them.
Where *DO* I see an imbalance (favoring the KDF) with these two equally ranked ships is the Power and crew settings. If the stowiki entries are correct, the Vor'cha enjoys 5 more power bonuses while also gaining 500 more crew. That's nothing to sneeze at. Plus the cloak.
That said, I would think the hull/turn differences balance out. But yes, there needs to be something
As to some of the other ships you mention in the OP, The Tier 5 Neg'var is likely intended to compare to the equally tiered Assault Cruiser.
Neg'var:
Hull: 39,000
Shield Modifier: 1
Crew: 2,500
Turn Rate: 9
Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Inertia rating: 25
Bonus Power: +10 weapons power, +10 engine power
Innate cloak
Assault Cruiser:
Hull: 39,000
Shield Modifier: 1
Crew: 800
Turn Rate: 7
Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Inertia rating: 30
Bonus Power: +5 all power levels
Oh my, I do see some issues here though. Crew is through the roof on the Neg'var, ~28.6% better turn, ~16.6% lower inertia AND that additional 5 power between weapons and engines. (and cloak)
As a primary-KDF player, all I can say after looking at these stats is... why the #TRIBBLE%@ aren't there more Klingons???
No seriously, you have a case... not so sure about the turn rate part, but there is clearly some odd balancing here.
Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]'Iw HaH je Hoch! ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3 A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome. Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
You might have something here, but not the turn rate. Galaxy has an ~8% bonus in hull over the Vor'cha, while the KDF has a ~16.6% bonus to turning, which is likely what they were intending when they designed them.
Where *DO* I see an imbalance (favoring the KDF) with these two equally ranked ships is the Power and crew settings. If the stowiki entries are correct, the Vor'cha enjoys 5 more power bonuses while also gaining 500 more crew. That's nothing to sneeze at. Plus the cloak.
That said, I would think the hull/turn differences balance out. But yes, there needs to be something
As to some of the other ships you mention in the OP, The Tier 5 Neg'var is likely intended to compare to the equally tiered Assault Cruiser.
Neg'var:
Hull: 39,000
Shield Modifier: 1
Crew: 2,500
Turn Rate: 9
Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Inertia rating: 25
Bonus Power: +10 weapons power, +10 engine power
Innate cloak
Assault Cruiser:
Hull: 39,000
Shield Modifier: 1
Crew: 800
Turn Rate: 7
Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Inertia rating: 30
Bonus Power: +5 all power levels
Oh my, I do see some issues here though. Crew is through the roof on the Neg'var, ~28.6% better turn, ~16.6% lower inertia AND that additional 5 power between weapons and engines. (and cloak)
As a primary-KDF player, all I can say after looking at these stats is... why the #TRIBBLE%@ aren't there more Klingons???
No seriously, you have a case... not so sure about the turn rate part, but there is clearly some odd balancing here.
As far as the additional power, there are four areas for power (Weapons, Shields, Engines and Aux) so its still a net of +20 to all of those ships, just put in different places before you adjust them.
The crew number differences are definitely imbalanced there.
Why are there less Klingon players? Most Klingon players got lost in their ships when they confused the cloaking device with the coffee machine ;p
But honestly, most T5(+) Klink' ships I see are B.O.P., Garumba or various carrier designs, the cruisers haven't really been a selling points as far as I can tell.
Something else I noticed when I went back - the Vor'cha has 3 device slots while the Exploration Cruiser (Galaxy) has 4...
So yeah, now I really have no idea what the Devs are doing behind the scenes when they make balance passes on ship designs.
Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]'Iw HaH je Hoch! ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3 A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome. Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
the vorcha has a turn rate of 10 actually, dramatically more then a galaxy's 6. also the number of crew does not mater, only the % alive
I could argue about the crew thing but I won't (doesn't kinetic damage impact the crew number, not %?)
these numbers were from stowiki, so any erroneous entries are copied from them. I can't check against in-game stats from work.
Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]'Iw HaH je Hoch! ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3 A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome. Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
Take our fed hull/crew/console bonus and whatever else and give us more turn rate... That's what this is all about.
I love cruisers... My main is a cruiser and it does feel bad.
Sure, I can survive almost everything but come on I can't turn around anything if its not at least large as a borg cube. It's a pain to go from 1 base to another in capture and hold arenas... FED cruiser captains will recognize this
on every other vorcha page it is listed correctly.
the crew damage from torps lists killing a specific number of them, or a % of crew killed. which ever has the least effect to your ships crew number is what your effected by.
I had assumed the refit/mirror/etc had a turn rate boost.
Regardless, there is clearly something amiss.
Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]'Iw HaH je Hoch! ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3 A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome. Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
I had assumed the refit/mirror/etc had a turn rate boost.
if so that would be the only instance in game were any sort of refit had a different movement stat then the original. regardless, the only ships that mater basically are those that are at end game.
if so that would be the only instance in game were any sort of refit had a different movement stat then the original. regardless, the only ships that mater basically are those that are at end game.
I was basing my selection off the OP.
That said, where is the pivot point on the Fed cruisers? I've captained mostly escorts and science on that side. It doesn't impact this discussion much, merely curious how it compares to the pivot point on the Battlecruisers based on separate discussions over in the KDF Fleetyards. I suspect the teams developing ships for UFP and KDF are completely separate, and completely independent paths and models are in use, making for oddball balance issues like this one and the Raptor one.
Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]'Iw HaH je Hoch! ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3 A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome. Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
That said, where is the pivot point on the Fed cruisers? I've captained mostly escorts and science on that side. It doesn't impact this discussion much, merely curious how it compares to the pivot point on the Battlecruisers based on separate discussions over in the KDF Fleetyards. I suspect the teams developing ships for UFP and KDF are completely separate, and completely independent paths and models are in use, making for oddball balance issues like this one and the Raptor one.
basically all other ships have a fine pivot point, except the MVAM escort when its separated. the parts of the ship have the same pivot point as the whole of the ship, on the saucer its pretty wonky. the pivot point is a non issue on ships that can only use high fireing arc weapons any way, only low arc weapons users are effected by bad pivot points. luckily the somraw retrofit is available for free, and has none of the qin's pivot and turning problems, and has a better ens station, better turn rate, better size, and has a .8 shield mod compared to the qin's .83, its not actually down by much despite the store description. the fleet version has a .93 shield mod
That said, where is the pivot point on the Fed cruisers? I've captained mostly escorts and science on that side. It doesn't impact this discussion much, merely curious how it compares to the pivot point on the Battlecruisers based on separate discussions over in the KDF Fleetyards. I suspect the teams developing ships for UFP and KDF are completely separate, and completely independent paths and models are in use, making for oddball balance issues like this one and the Raptor one.
As far as I can tell, the pivot point is dead center, if not a little bit in front of dead center.
basically all other ships have a fine pivot point, except the MVAM escort when its separated. the parts of the ship have the same pivot point as the whole of the ship, on the saucer its pretty wonky. the pivot point is a non issue on ships that can only use high fireing arc weapons any way, only low arc weapons users are effected by bad pivot points. luckily the somraw retrofit is available for free, and has none of the qin's pivot and turning problems, and has a better ens station, better turn rate, better size, and has a .8 shield mod compared to the qin's .83, its not actually down by much despite the store description. the fleet version has a .93 shield mod
Currently driving the Fleet Qin, which aside from it's pivot is a fine ship... fairly big aside that.
The Battlec Cruisers all seem to have more rearward pivots to me, but it has been a while since I've been in anything but a Qin or Bortas. on KDF side (Bugship Fedside). If thats the case it might play a role in how these were intended to be balanced, but as you point out, using wide-angle weapons eliminates the drawbacks of a rear pivot point
Maybe I need to just load up my Qin with beams...
Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]'Iw HaH je Hoch! ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3 A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome. Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
The devs really must have some weird kind of humor. Would it have hurt anyone if cruisers would have got a little more turnrate? Just 2 or 3 degrees more wouldn't make them OP or something.
I think there's a reason why the first thing we see when starting STO, is our character standing on the bridge of a Escort...
Didn't you know? Escorts rule the roost. For now.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Yeah, but i wouldn't have thought that the devs are going to buff them even more, it's not even funny anymore, it's just insulting.
Thank you for reading.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Comments
R.I.P
R.I.P
PVP isn't even a complete after thought... just saying. :rolleyes:
Klicking on Page 18, entering the page manually doesn't help eihter. If anyone knows what i can do, please send me a PM.
EDIT: strange, i can see this Post at page 17, althrough i can see the index going to page 19...
OT: since they introduce the 29th century time ship, the devs seem to abandon all and connection to canon and believeabilty from this game.
So canon references seem no longer to matter anymore at all.
on the cruiser case, let me just say that as long as they stay that much static and passive, they are just boring ships, althrough i like them (in Star trek canon) the most.
Thank you for reading.
I get the feeling they don't actually exist. Perhaps that damn spammer somehow broke the thread because he posted 2 pages of the same thing.
Thanks , i was afraid that the error could be on m end. I recently had some weird bugs and errors at STO.
Thank you for reading.
The problem with the Gals in particular is the BOFF layout and overall usefulness. Due to saucer seperation you can improve the turnarate already but that doesn't really help improving her weaknesses. Besides, why does the seperation imrpove the turnrate anyway? XD
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The devs really must have some weird kind of humor. Would it have hurt anyone if cruisers would have got a little more turnrate? Just 2 or 3 degrees more wouldn't make them OP or something.
I think there's a reason why the first thing we see when starting STO, is our character standing on the bridge of a Escort...
I did see that in the notes and thought about this forum.
Because there is less mass (thus inertia) for the ship to overcome when accelerating or turning.
As far as the fast turns in the show; Aux to ID1, EM(1,2 or 3), and engine batteries can do that too.
As far as the boff layout; DEM2-3, EWP2-3, and some others add some firepower to a ship with multiples of lt. commander and commander engie spots.
Galaxy:
Vor'cha
You might have something here, but not the turn rate. Galaxy has an ~8% bonus in hull over the Vor'cha, while the KDF has a ~16.6% bonus to turning, which is likely what they were intending when they designed them.
Where *DO* I see an imbalance (favoring the KDF) with these two equally ranked ships is the Power and crew settings. If the stowiki entries are correct, the Vor'cha enjoys 5 more power bonuses while also gaining 500 more crew. That's nothing to sneeze at. Plus the cloak.
That said, I would think the hull/turn differences balance out. But yes, there needs to be something
As to some of the other ships you mention in the OP, The Tier 5 Neg'var is likely intended to compare to the equally tiered Assault Cruiser.
Neg'var:
Assault Cruiser:
Oh my, I do see some issues here though. Crew is through the roof on the Neg'var, ~28.6% better turn, ~16.6% lower inertia AND that additional 5 power between weapons and engines. (and cloak)
As a primary-KDF player, all I can say after looking at these stats is... why the #TRIBBLE%@ aren't there more Klingons???
No seriously, you have a case... not so sure about the turn rate part, but there is clearly some odd balancing here.
ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
As far as the additional power, there are four areas for power (Weapons, Shields, Engines and Aux) so its still a net of +20 to all of those ships, just put in different places before you adjust them.
The crew number differences are definitely imbalanced there.
Why are there less Klingon players? Most Klingon players got lost in their ships when they confused the cloaking device with the coffee machine ;p
But honestly, most T5(+) Klink' ships I see are B.O.P., Garumba or various carrier designs, the cruisers haven't really been a selling points as far as I can tell.
Something else I noticed when I went back - the Vor'cha has 3 device slots while the Exploration Cruiser (Galaxy) has 4...
So yeah, now I really have no idea what the Devs are doing behind the scenes when they make balance passes on ship designs.
ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
I could argue about the crew thing but I won't (doesn't kinetic damage impact the crew number, not %?)
these numbers were from stowiki, so any erroneous entries are copied from them. I can't check against in-game stats from work.
ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
I love cruisers... My main is a cruiser and it does feel bad.
Sure, I can survive almost everything but come on I can't turn around anything if its not at least large as a borg cube. It's a pain to go from 1 base to another in capture and hold arenas... FED cruiser captains will recognize this
http://www.stowiki.org/Vor%27cha_Battle_Cruiser_Refit
http://www.stowiki.org/Vor%27cha_Battle_Cruiser_Retrofit
http://www.stowiki.org/Fleet_Vor%27cha_Battle_Cruiser_Retrofit
http://www.stowiki.org/Mirror_Universe_Vor%27cha_Battle_Cruiser
on every other vorcha page it is listed correctly.
the crew damage from torps lists killing a specific number of them, or a % of crew killed. which ever has the least effect to your ships crew number is what your effected by.
Regardless, there is clearly something amiss.
ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
if so that would be the only instance in game were any sort of refit had a different movement stat then the original. regardless, the only ships that mater basically are those that are at end game.
I was basing my selection off the OP.
That said, where is the pivot point on the Fed cruisers? I've captained mostly escorts and science on that side. It doesn't impact this discussion much, merely curious how it compares to the pivot point on the Battlecruisers based on separate discussions over in the KDF Fleetyards. I suspect the teams developing ships for UFP and KDF are completely separate, and completely independent paths and models are in use, making for oddball balance issues like this one and the Raptor one.
ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
basically all other ships have a fine pivot point, except the MVAM escort when its separated. the parts of the ship have the same pivot point as the whole of the ship, on the saucer its pretty wonky. the pivot point is a non issue on ships that can only use high fireing arc weapons any way, only low arc weapons users are effected by bad pivot points. luckily the somraw retrofit is available for free, and has none of the qin's pivot and turning problems, and has a better ens station, better turn rate, better size, and has a .8 shield mod compared to the qin's .83, its not actually down by much despite the store description. the fleet version has a .93 shield mod
As far as I can tell, the pivot point is dead center, if not a little bit in front of dead center.
Currently driving the Fleet Qin, which aside from it's pivot is a fine ship... fairly big aside that.
The Battlec Cruisers all seem to have more rearward pivots to me, but it has been a while since I've been in anything but a Qin or Bortas. on KDF side (Bugship Fedside). If thats the case it might play a role in how these were intended to be balanced, but as you point out, using wide-angle weapons eliminates the drawbacks of a rear pivot point
Maybe I need to just load up my Qin with beams...
ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3
A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome.
Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
Didn't you know? Escorts rule the roost. For now.
Thank you for reading.