Mask Energy Signature is totally useless in PVE and PVP. It needs to be re-thought. I think, it should be replaced by an ability called: Mask Warp signature. What this would do is fool an enemy ship outside of 5km into thinking you were a friendly target. Thus, the enemy could not target you until you either opened fire or until they were close enough to see that you really are not a friendly. This would be epic on Carriers but whatever! It would at least then have a use.
Agree with the Mask Warp Signature idea. Ideally i'd see it put at 7.5km range. Forces enemy players to be well within firing range, while not being "too close". Might also want to include an "accuracy debuff" for the first attack from the enemy. If MWS is on, the enemy needs to have a clear sensor lock on you (i.e see you as an Enemy, and not Friendly), in order to be able to hit with weapons.
Sci Team
- needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT
Nah, TT just needs to have its Redistribution Power removed. All of the "Team Skills" should only clear debuffs active when the power is fired.
Transfer Shield Strength
- Is OK
Yep
Hazard Emitters
- Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon-
Clearing energy drains, that definitely needs to stop. Engineering Team makes more sense for this role. Honestly this should only clear things that make your ship catch on fire, no matter the color.
The hull HoT is fine.
Tractor Beam
- Ok as ship ability
Anyone who doesn't understand the value of Tractors in PvP needs to pay attention. By stopping an enemy you reduce his defence to -15. When you combine that fact with how Def and ACC interact it should become obvious (crits, big ones).
That being said, TB is outta control since the advent of Carrier Pets that spam them. Few changes should be made to this power. I remember a Patch Note long ago that claimed that the effectiveness of each Tier of this ability would be tied to the size of the ship being tractored. I don't believe that mechanic is working. Fix that and and the seemingly broken counters (PH and APO don't work if the tractors start stacking... Danubes cough cough) and TB should be okay.
Tractor Beam Repulsors
- Is OK
Agreed
Polarize Hull
- A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed
Yep
Tachyon Beam
- Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%
Shield drains have depressed me since the day the new skill tree, and its resists, hit tribble. We told them then this ability was already too weak in PvE against huge HP numbers. We also warned them that this would kill it as a PvP power. They did it anyway.
What needs to happen here has been summed up pretty well and several times over the last 10 months.
First, The mechanics of all resists need to be changed so that at +100 you have a 25% resistance against drains and at 0 you have -25% resist with +50 being 0%. This would eliminate attaining effective resists by simply adding the right deflector and ignoring it on the skill tree while also keeping it meaningful.
While the drain powers themselves need to be individually tuned to that system with their baseline effect being tuned to +50, or neutral resist. Their link to Aux Power and the Skill Tree needs to be tuned here as well, with their baseline at 50 Aux Power and +50 Flow Capacitor Skill, not their maximum potential.
Second, The whole thing needs to be placed on tribble for extensive testing and tuning before being released to Holodeck. More resists may be needed or Drain Powers may need to be toned down after this or both or vice-versa.No Rush Job Here Please, let's get it right the first time.
Charged Particle Burst
- Same as Tachyon beam
See Tachyon Beam reply.
Photonic Shockwave
- Needs to get range and damage slightly increased
I'm still bewildered by the nerf this power received a few months back. The Stun and Interrupt were the most valuable mechanics of PSW. And both had already been nerfed by the new skill tree. It was like whoever had been assigned the job of rebalancing this skill was doing so from the past.
The Stun needs to be brought back up to something meaningful, say 4 second PSW3 (with a .5 second reduction for each lower Tier of the ability) against +50 stun resistance with +50 skill in Decompilers and scaled from there. This way someone could still dedicate themselves to using or resisting this power and still feel like they are getting something for their investment.
The knockback, again this was nerfed by the new skill tree into something laughable. I used to be able to knock an escort out of its danger zone if I invested the skill points. Now no amount of investment can accomplish this against even a mildly resisted opponent. This needs to be fixed in much the same way as the Stun. Give PSW3 a 3km knockback with +50 skill and 50 aux power, against +50 Inertial Dampners, with a 1km reduction for each tier of the power. Then tune it from there.
Again, leaving these changes on tribble for extensive testing is necessary for a succesful release should changes like these be introduced.
Photonic Officer
- Needs to be made a lot more effective.
LOL, just get rid of the power and give us some way to boost the effectiveness of sci powers every now and then. Attack Pattern Nerd or something. Seriously, there have been a few good threads on the subject of a Sci Boosting Ability. The best I read was DontDrunks. It may be time for a new thread on this issue too.
Gravety Well
- Pulls too weak, damages too little
The pull was always the most attractive part of GW. It is now useless in PvP, no matter what the carebears say. Yes, it's uber in PvE, but NPCs don't have resists. Even 3 points spent in Inertial Dampners almost completely negates the pull or leaves the player with several easy options of escape. The last time, and many times preceding, I was in a GW3, I only had to increase my throttle to escape with my engine power hovering at its usual 50. Even a target running resists should be required to DO something to get out of a fully spec'd, full Aux GW3, dontcha think?
This power needs the same treatment as many other sci abilities. Retune the abilitly (pull and damage), take resists and Aux Power levels into account and give it to us for some testing.
Tykens Rift
- Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts
DOFFs, well DOFFs shouldn't be taken into account when tuning Sci abilities. Sci abilities should be taken into account when tuning DOFFs. That's another thread, I believe, one which needs another round at the top of the list.
I'm starting to fee like I'm repeating myself. Just give this one the same treatment as every other ability we've talked about here. Establish a baseline, what you want it to do against what and tune the ability from there.
Jam Sensors
- Basically useless. Needs remake.
I like the ACC reduction idea Honestly, it's the most logical solution to the Jam problem. It should also have its fragility removed and it's duration and effectiveness tuned against Aux Power and Resists.
Scramble Sensors
- Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff.
Never pleasant in PvP, usually just annoying though. Any amount of investment in resists brings this down to a laughable level. Does it need a buff? No! The resistances just need to be tuned down. Then if changes need to be made, so be it.
Energy Siphon
- Needs a little buff
The ability to use ES or TR was severely neutered with the new skill tree. Prior to this a Joined Trill Sci, fully Spec'd with their SciFleet and ST3 buffs going and running the appropriate consoles could shut down an enemy. But did you see what it took? Everything a Sci Toon could put into it. Everything, including the Joined Trill passives.
I don't believe the skills themselves took any kind of hit though, they even fixed the fragility of Tyken's. This is once skill that should be left alone until they retune resistances and/or give scis the ability to buff their offensive powers again.
FBP
- Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.
Fine as is, IMO. A Tac in a sci ship is funny, it works, but not as well as a Sci/Sci used to. Once we get them to fix sci boff abilities you'll see a lot less of the fully buffed FBP3/TBR recon sci ships.
Shared cooldowns that make it a lot worse:
- GW and Tykens this should take 2 sci ships to accomplish, sorry.
- Tykens and ES, You need the combined drain to acomplish anything. again, this should take 2 ships to stack on an enemy.
- TSS and FBP, when FBP can be used to your advantage, that's when you really need TSS. This I can agree with, this shared CD is a throwback to when they shared skills on the tree, deflector field, I believe. It is outdated and should be removed.
Feel free to disagree or add comments or suggest changes.
On the topic of Photonic Officer and why it's so terrible.
TSS has a cooldown of 45 seconds.
PO1 takes this to 37 seconds.
PO1 lasts 1 minute.
TSS will receive no benefit from PO1 if it's triggered after the first 23 seconds of PO1.
Why? Let's say you trigger PO1 and 25 seconds later you trigger TSS. 35 seconds after that you're looking at TSS, waiting for it to come off of cooldown, when suddenly it jumps from 2 seconds to 10 seconds. PO1 wore off, and the reduced time was added back on.
This is throw stuff at the screen bad.
There's no reason it has to work this way, given that the Aux2Batt Technician cooldown does not. The Technician reduction just subtracts a set number of seconds from the current cooldown, literally taking seconds off the clock, without the possibility of adding them back on.
PO's effect can't help the abilities that need it most, the ones with really long cooldowns. The Technician reduction can be used multiple times on abilities like RSP until they hit their global.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
On the topic of Photonic Officer and why it's so terrible.
TSS has a cooldown of 45 seconds.
PO1 takes this to 37 seconds.
PO1 lasts 1 minute.
TSS will receive no benefit from PO1 if it's triggered after the first 23 seconds of PO1.
Why? Let's say you trigger PO1 and 25 seconds later you trigger TSS. 35 seconds after that you're looking at TSS, waiting for it to come off of cooldown, when suddenly it jumps from 2 seconds to 10 seconds. PO1 wore off, and the reduced time was added back on.
This is throw stuff at the screen bad.
There's no reason it has to work this way, given that the Aux2Batt Technician cooldown does not. The Technician reduction just subtracts a set number of seconds from the current cooldown, literally taking seconds off the clock, without the possibility of adding them back on.
PO's effect can't help the abilities that need it most, the ones with really long cooldowns. The Technician reduction can be used multiple times on abilities like RSP until they hit their global.
EXACTLY!!! If Photonic Officer worked in the same way as the Technician Duty Officer, but however, only worked for say Science Abilities, that would be great!
ive made a whole bunch of sci suggestions lol, which was it that you liked? a sci overhaul really needs to feature the sci skill tree being rearranged...
I'd be interested in hearing more opinions on all of the above. As well as testing scenarios, if you run them, even if only anecdotal (no solid figures, that is).
Per your request:
Science Team
Agree with the OP, the debuff clear needs to last 10 seconds. Though, this is a great ability now that they Development DOFFs are in. Gives us a 15 sec shield heal to match Auxiliary to Structural.
Transfer Shield Strength
Agree it's okay. Would be nice if it healed a little more considering the 45sec cooldown but that's just me being greedy.
Hazard Emitters
I'm torn on this one. On one hand, it does clear far to many things making it to awesome. On the other, the 45sec cooldown is to long the clear effect to short for plasma fires. When fighting Borg, you'll get plasma fired so frequently some times. In the 30secs of vulnerability, a light hulled escort can get burned to the ground while waiting for the timer.
Tractor Beam
I to think this should be an innate ship ability. Allow every ship to use it.
But since that's not likely to happen I think the most important thing is to make it so that it locks your target into a relative position to you. As it is now, it's kind of useless. You stop a guy from moving, but you keep moving. It should be where your target it 3km ahead of you, you hit tractor beam, he remains 3km ahead of you no matter if you turn, speed up, slow down. Then it could be useful for readying a torpedo volley against a weak shield facing.
Tractor Beam Repulsors
These work great.
Polarize Hull
I think this works fine. It's a nice resist boost and breaks tractor beams. Hate that its on the same system as hazard emitters though. You need both against the Borg, but if you have both neither is ever available when you need them.
Tachyon Beam
This one is indeed useless right now. It just doesn't drain enough shields for the amount of effort required. Maybe instead of draining shields, it disrupts them. So you fire it, and for those 10 seconds, the shield facing it hits is gone. Once it ends, the shield returns to what it was before.
Or maybe make it instead do hull damage and penetrate shields.
Charged Particle Burst
Also doesn't do enough shield damage. It's nice that it's AoE so it shouldn't be to overpowered, but its useless unless you're running level 3 with full aux and skill training. And then only barely.
Photonic Shockwave
Agree with the OP, better range and more reliable stun but other than that it's not bad.
Photonic Officer
I'm torn on this one. Like the OP, I almost never use it because it seems to lack effectiveness. Wasting a BO skill just to be able to make other ones cycle faster some of the time. But it can be exploited some with the technicians, aux to battery and the doffs, though that requires a lot committment and makes auxiliary powers useless, which rules out a lot of science abilities. And its the science abilities, ironically, that benefit from this the most, since they typically have the longest timer.
Gravity Well
I think this one is great. The only thing I think needs to be changed is move level 1 down to a Lieutenant spot, level 2 to Lt. Cmdr. I always thought having level 2 and 3 as commander was just dumb. Whose going to use level 2? It would also allow cruisers and escorts who only have LT slots be able to try it out.
Tykens Rift
This one works fine.
Jam Sensors
THis needs to be an AOE. When you're getting pounded and need to get people to stop shooting you, you're usually getting shot at by a lot of things. And, since your target is the one whose jammed and also the one you're shooting, it breaks to easily.
Scramble Sensors
This use to be awesome, now it's useless without putting points into really expensive skills. Needs some tweaking.
Energy Siphon
Its okay, but doesn't feel like it drains enough.
Feedback Pulse
Generally feels to not be worth it. Could use a slight boost.
Mask Energy Signature
Never used it.
Viral Matrix
Haven't used it since it was nerfed back in the early days so can't really say. Feels like its no good, but nothing uses it anymore so don't know.
Now, that's my thoughts on Science abilities as they are. At one point there was talk about adding more BOFF abilities but that never happened. Engineering and Tactical could really use some more Ensign level abilities. Tac at least got the beam target ones added. Engineering needs love there, and really, in general. I like my cruisers, but have a hard time finding things to equip in all the enginering boff slots that aren't repeats.
I'll save my ideas for new BOFF abilities for a separate post so as not to get off topic.
I'm chuckling at everyone hating on the Charged Particle Burst. It's already effective enough, because it reveals cloaked ships!. That's really what it's meant for, there's other ways to mess with shields. Maybe buff Tachyon Beam to address that. Charged Particle Burst really ought to be the 'sensor scan' for Tactical and Engineering officers. Maybe toss a small debuff onto it rather than doing shield damage. . .but don't make it a 'strong shield ripper'. It's already frustrating enough as a decloaker, which can easily lead to the death of any BoP or Raptor lurking that close if you're sticking close to other friendlies (which you really should be doing in PvP, at least), or to the death of any hit-and-run BoP pilot (such as myself) by throwing off his exit plan timing. A small debuff would give it some usefulness in PvE, as well. Just don't make it a deadly shield-ripper, because the decloaking is bad enough as it is.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
I'm chuckling at everyone hating on the Charged Particle Burst. It's already effective enough, because it reveals cloaked ships!. That's really what it's meant for, there's other ways to mess with shields. Maybe buff Tachyon Beam to address that. Charged Particle Burst really ought to be the 'sensor scan' for Tactical and Engineering officers. Maybe toss a small debuff onto it rather than doing shield damage. . .but don't make it a 'strong shield ripper'. It's already frustrating enough as a decloaker, which can easily lead to the death of any BoP or Raptor lurking that close if you're sticking close to other friendlies (which you really should be doing in PvP, at least), or to the death of any hit-and-run BoP pilot (such as myself) by throwing off his exit plan timing. A small debuff would give it some usefulness in PvE, as well. Just don't make it a deadly shield-ripper, because the decloaking is bad enough as it is.
There are far far better ways to bring cloaked ships out of hiding.
Mines, Plasma, Tykens, Sensor scan, TBR, Tractor beam, VM (shuts down aux), Torpedoes that seek cloaked ships. Torps fired as a bop runs out to battlecloak, oh let's also not forget PSW still knocks ships out of cloak and has the exact same blast radius, oh and it still knocks off Extends, which means it actually Does Something unlike CPB.
The shield rip was always it's primary attribute. No one that's Serious about pvp fields CPB if they have any skill because it's such a worthless ability now.
There are far far better ways to bring cloaked ships out of hiding.
Mines, Plasma, Tykens, Sensor scan, TBR, Tractor beam, VM (shuts down aux), Torpedoes that seek cloaked ships. Torps fired as a bop runs out to battlecloak, oh let's also not forget PSW still knocks ships out of cloak and has the exact same blast radius, oh and it still knocks off Extends, which means it actually Does Something unlike CPB.
The shield rip was always it's primary attribute. No one that's Serious about pvp fields CPB if they have any skill because it's such a worthless ability now.
Sad but true story!!! Now... i'm all for CPB being a poor mans Sensor Scan!!! That effects shield resistances!!! That would mean something PVE and PVP wise. :cool:
ive made a whole bunch of sci suggestions lol, which was it that you liked? a sci overhaul really needs to feature the sci skill tree being rearranged...
The one about rearranging the science portion of the skill tree. Adding a replacement for "Starship Operations" and giving us powers that boost that skill. That one.
The one about rearranging the science portion of the skill tree. Adding a replacement for "Starship Operations" and giving us powers that boost that skill. That one.
i need to find that thread and re post that, now that this is the main topic of discussion around here
List of sci boff abilities and how they fail: Edited in yellow
Sci Team
- needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT. Seems to be disputed.
Transfer Shield Strength
- Is OK
Hazard Emitters
- Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon, tykens... should only clear applied debuffs (plasma fire, acetone etc), not location debuffs (like siphon, tykens)
Tractor Beam
- Ok as ship ability Higher levels should hold better. )"as ship ability" means not ok as pet/mine ability)
Tractor Beam Repulsors
- Is OK
Polarize Hull
- A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed
Tachyon Beam
- Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%. To clarify: against a NPC or a player with resists, this 10 sec ability will drain 10% of their shields. fixing resists would help in pvp, but raising efficiency would help both PvE and PvP
Charged Particle Burst
- Same as Tachyon beam
Photonic Shockwave
- Needs to get range and damage slightly increased. And stun properly! Damage should be tied to aux power (?)
Photonic Officer
- Needs to be made a lot more effective.
Gravety Well
- Pulls too weak, damages too little
Tykens Rift
- Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts
Jam Sensors
- Basically useless. Needs remake.
Scramble Sensors
- Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff. - TRIBBLE in PvE, as all the good NPCs are immune
Energy Siphon
- Needs a little buff
FBP
- Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.
Mask Energy Signature
- Works ok?
Viral Matrix
- Ok for pvp at the moment for three reasons:
1. Doffs make it a lot more potent
2. Is not aux dependant
3. Everything else is worse.
- useless for PvE
Shared cooldowns that make it a lot worse:
- GW and Tykens
- Tykens and ES, You need the combined drain to acomplish anything.
- TSS and FBP, when FBP can be used to your advantage, that's when you really need TSS. - HE and PH
Feel free to disagree or add comments or suggest changes.
1. Sci Team is fine high level is nice burst shield repair, counters various other boffs.
2. TSS is ok, but I'd like all aux based abilities to have much higher rater of return for aux power above 100 and much less effectiveness below 50 as general rule of them.
3. H.E. is fine w/the exception of the aux issue. If AoE debuffs effect allies as well as enemies I'd be more open to reducing H.E. effectiveness. Also, I'd consider making it a lt, lt com, com ability and swapping it w/FBP.
4. TB, Agree Boff abilities should always be stronger than NPC or gear based abilities.
5. TBR, I'd tie damage to aux again and boost damage more for aux greater than 100.
6. PH, seems fine to me.
7. Tach Beam, if it countered ship % shield regen (not boff regens) and BFI doffs I'd be fine w/it. Anti RSP of sorts.
8. CPB - Tough to balance b/c AoE ability. Again I think high Aux requirement for decent performance a must. Needs a boost for sure though aside from Doff procs.
9. PSW - add a ministun of .1 sec or so for the interupt value out to 5km. Make stun duration aux dependent w/greater results for over 100 aux.
10. Photonic Officer - surpassed by tech doffs and tac initiative. Needs to be remade from scratch imo.
11. GW too easy to escape event horizon. Should hold all ships similar to Web console. Perhaps heavy damage if you get pulled into .5km of center otherwise weak damage. I'd lengthen the cooldown, but make the event horizon 5km and nearly unbreakable w/stronger pull on low inertia ships.
12. TR Doff stacking an issue. Resists in general need looking at here, they're too strong.
13. Jam - Imo it's fine. Basically anti boss PvE skill.
14. Scramble Sensors - It's fine, assuming Feds can't see KDF cloaked ships when Feds get scrambled.
15. Energy Siphon - It's fine as a gain, perhaps look at resists here similar to TR.
16. FBP - Drop captain power boost, drop it to a en, lt, lt commander skill. Again over 100 aux for more significant damage return. This way it's more available to all ships as a modest deterant.
17. VM - Stack Doff procs an issue, but w/maint doffs I think 1 proc/VM instance is fine.
Imo, H.E. and PH shared cooldown works since they can basically be chained. If a player wants to spike hull resists they can also use hazzard doffs w/bfi and ramming speed.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
- needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT. Seems to be disputed.
Used to boost science Attacks before new skill tree. In my opinions this behavior should be restored. You could re-use the purple science boost code for that.
+ x to all science skills for 10,20,30 seconds
Hazard Emitters
- Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon, tykens... should only clear applied debuffs (plasma fire, acetone etc), not location debuffs (like siphon, tykens)
No it's not.
Actually repulsion effect is tied to aux level, but damage is not.
Damage should also tied to aux level, otherwise this is the perfect example of science ability that favours tac builds with zero auxiliary levels, because if you don't repel your opponent, he stays within the 5km range and at the end you inflict more damage with low aux.
Tachyon Beam
- Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%. To clarify: against a NPC or a player with resists, this 10 sec ability will drain 10% of their shields. fixing resists would help in pvp, but raising efficiency would help both PvE and PvP
Photonic Shockwave
- Needs to get range and damage slightly increased. And stun properly! Damage should be tied to aux power (?)
Yes, damage should be tied to aux power AND 100 points in particle generators should aproximately multiply by 2 its base damage.
As a reference, a psw3 should deliver 20k damage with 125 aux and 200 points in particle generators.
Photonic Officer
- Needs to be made a lot more effective.
By more effective, in my opinion it should work as a cooldown reduction, similar to the effect of the technicians doff.
In that case, its cooldown should be reduced to 45 secs.
Tykens Rift
- Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts
The chance for 2-3 doff proc to happen are extremely low, so this is not a problem (you can consider it like a critical hit from energy weapons, a lucky strike).
It is too weak as normal, I agree.
Viral Matrix
- Ok for pvp at the moment for three reasons:
1. Doffs make it a lot more potent
2. Is not aux dependant
3. Everything else is worse.
- useless for PvE
Shared cooldowns that make it a lot worse:
- GW and Tykens
- Tykens and ES, You need the combined drain to acomplish anything.
- TSS and FBP, when FBP can be used to your advantage, that's when you really need TSS. - HE and PH
I agree
I'd add Photonic Officer and Photonic Shockwave
I forgot about the photonic fleet. This ability is a joke. It's weak and deals no damage, so what's the point? At least if we have a photonic fleet it should be a lot more tanky and draw fire... Our space security team, but for scis!
MES should just be made into a weak battle cloak that without a ton of stealth specing anyone should be able to see through as easily as they can now.
and TBR, maybe make aux not effect it too. have your particle skills buff damage and have your grav skills buff push, no aux on ether. depending on your objective the skill does 2 very different things, and doesn't favor anyone.
Oh, and photonic fleet and fleet support both need a buff. photonic fleet should just have more tanky critters, or maybe make it more buffable. Fleet support for something that should be an emergency button, it's very underwhelming. Make it always summon x3 frigates, x2 cruisers or x1 battleship might work.
There are far far better ways to bring cloaked ships out of hiding.
Mines, Plasma, Tykens, Sensor scan, TBR, Tractor beam, VM (shuts down aux), Torpedoes that seek cloaked ships. Torps fired as a bop runs out to battlecloak, oh let's also not forget PSW still knocks ships out of cloak and has the exact same blast radius, oh and it still knocks off Extends, which means it actually Does Something unlike CPB.
The shield rip was always it's primary attribute. No one that's Serious about pvp fields CPB if they have any skill because it's such a worthless ability now.
How many of those can do so out of combat, don't require you to have a target, and are available to all classes, though? Tykens Rift reveal is a side-effect if a ship gets too close, Sensor Scan is a sci officer ability, not everyone has room in their build for mines, only clumsy BoP pilots get stuck in plasma, Tractor beam requires a target lock, same with VM.
I don't disagree that the skill needs some changes/improvement. As you say, PSW does the same thing, only better. It just doesn't need to be uber-powerful, because it's role really should be to disable cloaks and do some minor effect.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
Oh, and photonic fleet and fleet support both need a buff. photonic fleet should just have more tanky critters, or maybe make it more buffable. Fleet support for something that should be an emergency button, it's very underwhelming. Make it always summon x3 frigates, x2 cruisers or x1 battleship might work.
I'd agree for PvE but in PvP spam isn't fun and science captains already have enough good abilities. Fleet support really needs to not spawn dreadnoughts anymore regardless of anything else.
Really, to make science captains viable in PvE there needs to be a reason to use SNB against NPCs, that either means NPCs need to gain very big buffs that have approximately the same CD as SNB, or they need to use many buffs at the same time.
Getting further OT, sure, but in order for engineer captains to be viable in PvE NPCs need to do enough damage to be threatening. That you never need to worry about dying takes all of the excitement out of PvE.
Sci Team - Agree with comments, should clear debuffs for 10s. I think that Tac Team's shield redistribution effect should be moved to sci team, and tac team given a greater damage buff or duration.
TSS - Ok
HE - Should not clear location debuffs
Tractor beam - I like the idea of holding the target relative to you, but that would not reduce the target's defense due to speed. Maybe apply a defense debuff on top of the speed decrease?
TBR - I think it should push farther at the higher Aux settings. Didn't know about using low aux to maximize damage, that's a great idea.
polarize hull - Ok
Tachyon beam - totally useless IMO. On top of buff, recommend increasing firing angle to 180*, or let the beam continue after target has left the firing angle, ie a gravity well doesn't go away when you point away from it.
CPB & PS - Weak.
Photonic officer - Seems pretty ineffective. Not sure what concerns are with Aux2Batt, we've tested it with 3 blue/purple DOFFs and it seems a serious investment for not-much value. I say change PO to reduce weapon cooldowns, perhaps eliminate shared cooldowns for X seconds.
FB pulse works pretty good for me in pvp on my eng in a Voquv. I use FB pulse 2 and 3 and using 2 particle genrator consoles, honor guard shields, and only 3 ranks in the particle generator skill it does prett decent damage when I power my aux up all the way. It even is enough to pretty much kill some escorts outright on its own when I time it right before they alpha me. Funny as it is mostly the really good escort players that I have been able to make kill themselves almost entirely using damage from FB pulse as they have the most DPS to reflect back at them, so much that they can't always stop in time before they kill themselves. If I was a tac I might do more damage with it, but might not always survive the alphas from the really high dps escorts out there.
It does need to be tweaked to have some uses in pve, but in pvp its fine how it is.
Tachyon Beam
- Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%. To clarify: against a NPC or a player with resists, this 10 sec ability will drain 10% of their shields. fixing resists would help in pvp, but raising efficiency would help both PvE and PvP
You sure that's correct?
I thought the duration of the ability was 4 seconds, with -TRIBBLE drain per pulse for up to 10 pulses.
Imo, it's fine. I think of it as a means of stealthing travel, not stealthing in combat.
I'd like to see Sector PvP at some point and then this would shine more as a means of hiding ship movement.
For PvE it's semi usefull for sneaking around @ full aux and avoiding agro. There aren't many maps that take advantage of this though. The gorn fleet and Kerrat are the only 2 that come to mind.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
List of sci boff abilities and how they fail: Edited in yellow
Sci Team
- needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT. Seems to be disputed.
Agreed
Transfer Shield Strength
- Is OK
would like the heal to be a bit faster tofinish but thats my opinion
Hazard Emitters
- Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon, tykens... should only clear applied debuffs (plasma fire, acetone etc), not location debuffs (like siphon, tykens)
I too would like to know the BS Star Trek reason as to how it clears a spatial anomoly when i'm sitting in it.
Tractor Beam
- Ok as ship ability Higher levels should hold better. )"as ship ability" means not ok as pet/mine ability)
ya should be a ship system other wise maybe make TB 2/3 target the 2 or 3 (depending on rank) closest enimies. I know it would be to OP for PVPers but still good in PVE in some circumstances
Tractor Beam Repulsors
- Is OK maybe
Yep
Polarize Hull
- A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed
Lose the CD with HE
Tachyon Beam
- Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%. To clarify: against a NPC or a player with resists, this 10 sec ability will drain 10% of their shields. fixing resists would help in pvp, but raising efficiency would help both PvE and PvP
Charged Particle Burst
- Same as Tachyon beam
ya PVP complained to much now its nerfed to nothing plus the range should be raised to 7.5km or a full 10km
Photonic Shockwave
- Needs to get range and damage slightly increased. And stun properly! Damage should be tied to aux power (?)
Concer
Photonic Officer
- Needs to be made a lot more effective.
ya
Gravety Well
- Pulls too weak, damages too little
i use GWell 3 partailly speced for it but it cant hold fighters thats rediculous
Tykens Rift
- Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts
lose the CD with GWell
Jam Sensors
- Basically useless. Needs remake.
have always thought it should be an AoE similar to Starship scattering field only aplying same effect
Scramble Sensors
- Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff. - TRIBBLE in PvE, as all the good NPCs are immune
has been nerfed to far
Energy Siphon
- Needs a little buff
agree
FBP
- Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.
147% true
Mask Energy Signature
- Works ok?
for VA ppl who want a cloak on a non GX or Defiant i guess its good. idk i only use it as a toy to make my ship the awesome black color
Viral Matrix
- Ok for pvp at the moment for three reasons:
1. Doffs make it a lot more potent
2. Is not aux dependant
3. Everything else is worse.
- useless for PvE[/COLOR]
Shared cooldowns that make it a lot worse:
- GW and Tykens
- Tykens and ES, You need the combined drain to acomplish anything.
- TSS and FBP, when FBP can be used to your advantage, that's when you really need TSS. - HE and PH
totally agree
i suggest a new science skills
"System hack"
Target ally; allows player to use abilities threw allies ship. (example me in sci ship i can use TBR3 threw my ally in an escort)
Target enemy: temporaily disables any sharded skill(s) both players have (i.e. if both players have E-team and EPTS they are disabled for X amount of time)
(Not to good on as offensive skill PVE but oh well.)
Perhaps TSS and FBP could lose their global cooldown, but instead, overwrite one another? IE: You can't have them both on you at the same time, but can replace one with the other, or activate FBP on yourself and TSS on an ally.
finally found my post with how i would re order the skill tree
its not just the skills that are bad, its the skill tree too. for the science part of the skill tree do the following
do away with subspace decompiler as it is now, and distribute the powers it effects into graviton generators and countermeasure systems. then make decompilers a shield drain resistance, let power insulators only defend your power levels. CPB and tach beam could be made dangerous, but to defend against it to the levels you can now you have to spend points in a very expensive skill. power insulates are too cheap and have too much roled into them. the skills that buff damage, flow cap and particle gen are too cheap too, and should both be at the same level. reorder the skill tree as such
tier 2 Starship Countermeasure Systems- buffs duration for confuse and placate, subsystem disables from vm and target systems Starship Shield Systems- buff shield hit points
tire3 Starship Power Insulators- resistance from any power drains Starship Inertial Dampeners- resistance from holds, repel, stuns
tier4 Starship Flow Capacitors- buffs power and shield drain Starship Particle Generators- buffs dots, and science abilities that deal kinetic damage. is also a second buff to shield drains like tach beam and CPB
tier 5 Starship Graviton Generators- buffs knock, repel, slow, holds, and improves the duration of your Holds and Disable Starship Subspace Decompiler- resistance from shield draining other then direct damage.
Comments
Agree with the Mask Warp Signature idea. Ideally i'd see it put at 7.5km range. Forces enemy players to be well within firing range, while not being "too close". Might also want to include an "accuracy debuff" for the first attack from the enemy. If MWS is on, the enemy needs to have a clear sensor lock on you (i.e see you as an Enemy, and not Friendly), in order to be able to hit with weapons.
Comments in Lime
TSS has a cooldown of 45 seconds.
PO1 takes this to 37 seconds.
PO1 lasts 1 minute.
TSS will receive no benefit from PO1 if it's triggered after the first 23 seconds of PO1.
Why? Let's say you trigger PO1 and 25 seconds later you trigger TSS. 35 seconds after that you're looking at TSS, waiting for it to come off of cooldown, when suddenly it jumps from 2 seconds to 10 seconds. PO1 wore off, and the reduced time was added back on.
This is throw stuff at the screen bad.
There's no reason it has to work this way, given that the Aux2Batt Technician cooldown does not. The Technician reduction just subtracts a set number of seconds from the current cooldown, literally taking seconds off the clock, without the possibility of adding them back on.
PO's effect can't help the abilities that need it most, the ones with really long cooldowns. The Technician reduction can be used multiple times on abilities like RSP until they hit their global.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
EXACTLY!!! If Photonic Officer worked in the same way as the Technician Duty Officer, but however, only worked for say Science Abilities, that would be great!
I think it should be like this:
Hazard Emitters clears things that attack your ship's systems: Energy Siphon, Tachyon Beam, Viral Matrix, and so on.
Polarize Hull should clear things that attack the hull: plasma fires, theta radiation, warp plasma, tractor beams, etc.
I really don't like that idea at all. It doesn't make sense lore wise or gameplay wise. HE should clear hull hazzards/ fire/plasma etc.
PH should help break holds and damage. Just like in the TV show.
Abilities need to be intuitive to some degree.
It's fine vanilla, but with System Engineers, I'd say it's a little overpowered. Having my Weapons, Aux and Engines offline for 10 secs is ridiculous.
[23:35] Horta deals 1738411 (1538303) Toxic Damage to Centurion Engineer with Corrosive Acid.
ive made a whole bunch of sci suggestions lol, which was it that you liked? a sci overhaul really needs to feature the sci skill tree being rearranged...
Per your request:
Science Team
Agree with the OP, the debuff clear needs to last 10 seconds. Though, this is a great ability now that they Development DOFFs are in. Gives us a 15 sec shield heal to match Auxiliary to Structural.
Transfer Shield Strength
Agree it's okay. Would be nice if it healed a little more considering the 45sec cooldown but that's just me being greedy.
Hazard Emitters
I'm torn on this one. On one hand, it does clear far to many things making it to awesome. On the other, the 45sec cooldown is to long the clear effect to short for plasma fires. When fighting Borg, you'll get plasma fired so frequently some times. In the 30secs of vulnerability, a light hulled escort can get burned to the ground while waiting for the timer.
Tractor Beam
I to think this should be an innate ship ability. Allow every ship to use it.
But since that's not likely to happen I think the most important thing is to make it so that it locks your target into a relative position to you. As it is now, it's kind of useless. You stop a guy from moving, but you keep moving. It should be where your target it 3km ahead of you, you hit tractor beam, he remains 3km ahead of you no matter if you turn, speed up, slow down. Then it could be useful for readying a torpedo volley against a weak shield facing.
Tractor Beam Repulsors
These work great.
Polarize Hull
I think this works fine. It's a nice resist boost and breaks tractor beams. Hate that its on the same system as hazard emitters though. You need both against the Borg, but if you have both neither is ever available when you need them.
Tachyon Beam
This one is indeed useless right now. It just doesn't drain enough shields for the amount of effort required. Maybe instead of draining shields, it disrupts them. So you fire it, and for those 10 seconds, the shield facing it hits is gone. Once it ends, the shield returns to what it was before.
Or maybe make it instead do hull damage and penetrate shields.
Charged Particle Burst
Also doesn't do enough shield damage. It's nice that it's AoE so it shouldn't be to overpowered, but its useless unless you're running level 3 with full aux and skill training. And then only barely.
Photonic Shockwave
Agree with the OP, better range and more reliable stun but other than that it's not bad.
Photonic Officer
I'm torn on this one. Like the OP, I almost never use it because it seems to lack effectiveness. Wasting a BO skill just to be able to make other ones cycle faster some of the time. But it can be exploited some with the technicians, aux to battery and the doffs, though that requires a lot committment and makes auxiliary powers useless, which rules out a lot of science abilities. And its the science abilities, ironically, that benefit from this the most, since they typically have the longest timer.
Gravity Well
I think this one is great. The only thing I think needs to be changed is move level 1 down to a Lieutenant spot, level 2 to Lt. Cmdr. I always thought having level 2 and 3 as commander was just dumb. Whose going to use level 2? It would also allow cruisers and escorts who only have LT slots be able to try it out.
Tykens Rift
This one works fine.
Jam Sensors
THis needs to be an AOE. When you're getting pounded and need to get people to stop shooting you, you're usually getting shot at by a lot of things. And, since your target is the one whose jammed and also the one you're shooting, it breaks to easily.
Scramble Sensors
This use to be awesome, now it's useless without putting points into really expensive skills. Needs some tweaking.
Energy Siphon
Its okay, but doesn't feel like it drains enough.
Feedback Pulse
Generally feels to not be worth it. Could use a slight boost.
Mask Energy Signature
Never used it.
Viral Matrix
Haven't used it since it was nerfed back in the early days so can't really say. Feels like its no good, but nothing uses it anymore so don't know.
Now, that's my thoughts on Science abilities as they are. At one point there was talk about adding more BOFF abilities but that never happened. Engineering and Tactical could really use some more Ensign level abilities. Tac at least got the beam target ones added. Engineering needs love there, and really, in general. I like my cruisers, but have a hard time finding things to equip in all the enginering boff slots that aren't repeats.
I'll save my ideas for new BOFF abilities for a separate post so as not to get off topic.
There are far far better ways to bring cloaked ships out of hiding.
Mines, Plasma, Tykens, Sensor scan, TBR, Tractor beam, VM (shuts down aux), Torpedoes that seek cloaked ships. Torps fired as a bop runs out to battlecloak, oh let's also not forget PSW still knocks ships out of cloak and has the exact same blast radius, oh and it still knocks off Extends, which means it actually Does Something unlike CPB.
The shield rip was always it's primary attribute. No one that's Serious about pvp fields CPB if they have any skill because it's such a worthless ability now.
Sad but true story!!! Now... i'm all for CPB being a poor mans Sensor Scan!!! That effects shield resistances!!! That would mean something PVE and PVP wise. :cool:
The one about rearranging the science portion of the skill tree. Adding a replacement for "Starship Operations" and giving us powers that boost that skill. That one.
i need to find that thread and re post that, now that this is the main topic of discussion around here
1. Sci Team is fine high level is nice burst shield repair, counters various other boffs.
2. TSS is ok, but I'd like all aux based abilities to have much higher rater of return for aux power above 100 and much less effectiveness below 50 as general rule of them.
3. H.E. is fine w/the exception of the aux issue. If AoE debuffs effect allies as well as enemies I'd be more open to reducing H.E. effectiveness. Also, I'd consider making it a lt, lt com, com ability and swapping it w/FBP.
4. TB, Agree Boff abilities should always be stronger than NPC or gear based abilities.
5. TBR, I'd tie damage to aux again and boost damage more for aux greater than 100.
6. PH, seems fine to me.
7. Tach Beam, if it countered ship % shield regen (not boff regens) and BFI doffs I'd be fine w/it. Anti RSP of sorts.
8. CPB - Tough to balance b/c AoE ability. Again I think high Aux requirement for decent performance a must. Needs a boost for sure though aside from Doff procs.
9. PSW - add a ministun of .1 sec or so for the interupt value out to 5km. Make stun duration aux dependent w/greater results for over 100 aux.
10. Photonic Officer - surpassed by tech doffs and tac initiative. Needs to be remade from scratch imo.
11. GW too easy to escape event horizon. Should hold all ships similar to Web console. Perhaps heavy damage if you get pulled into .5km of center otherwise weak damage. I'd lengthen the cooldown, but make the event horizon 5km and nearly unbreakable w/stronger pull on low inertia ships.
12. TR Doff stacking an issue. Resists in general need looking at here, they're too strong.
13. Jam - Imo it's fine. Basically anti boss PvE skill.
14. Scramble Sensors - It's fine, assuming Feds can't see KDF cloaked ships when Feds get scrambled.
15. Energy Siphon - It's fine as a gain, perhaps look at resists here similar to TR.
16. FBP - Drop captain power boost, drop it to a en, lt, lt commander skill. Again over 100 aux for more significant damage return. This way it's more available to all ships as a modest deterant.
17. VM - Stack Doff procs an issue, but w/maint doffs I think 1 proc/VM instance is fine.
Imo, H.E. and PH shared cooldown works since they can basically be chained. If a player wants to spike hull resists they can also use hazzard doffs w/bfi and ramming speed.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
+ x to all science skills for 10,20,30 seconds
Yes, it's ok
I agree
I agree
No it's not.
Actually repulsion effect is tied to aux level, but damage is not.
Damage should also tied to aux level, otherwise this is the perfect example of science ability that favours tac builds with zero auxiliary levels, because if you don't repel your opponent, he stays within the 5km range and at the end you inflict more damage with low aux.
Nah, ph is good
I agree.
I agree
Yes, damage should be tied to aux power AND 100 points in particle generators should aproximately multiply by 2 its base damage.
As a reference, a psw3 should deliver 20k damage with 125 aux and 200 points in particle generators.
By more effective, in my opinion it should work as a cooldown reduction, similar to the effect of the technicians doff.
In that case, its cooldown should be reduced to 45 secs.
I agree, pull should be tied to graviton generators and aux level
Damage should benefit *2 from particle generators skill points and consoles
The chance for 2-3 doff proc to happen are extremely low, so this is not a problem (you can consider it like a critical hit from energy weapons, a lucky strike).
It is too weak as normal, I agree.
It works as intended
It is fine as it is.
Should work in PvE, at least against small crafts.
It is fine, the problem is that it's cleared too easily.
I agree
No, it's TRIBBLE
Does not work in PvP, does not work in combat.
I agree, it's ok
I agree
I'd add Photonic Officer and Photonic Shockwave
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
and TBR, maybe make aux not effect it too. have your particle skills buff damage and have your grav skills buff push, no aux on ether. depending on your objective the skill does 2 very different things, and doesn't favor anyone.
How many of those can do so out of combat, don't require you to have a target, and are available to all classes, though? Tykens Rift reveal is a side-effect if a ship gets too close, Sensor Scan is a sci officer ability, not everyone has room in their build for mines, only clumsy BoP pilots get stuck in plasma, Tractor beam requires a target lock, same with VM.
I don't disagree that the skill needs some changes/improvement. As you say, PSW does the same thing, only better. It just doesn't need to be uber-powerful, because it's role really should be to disable cloaks and do some minor effect.
I'd agree for PvE but in PvP spam isn't fun and science captains already have enough good abilities. Fleet support really needs to not spawn dreadnoughts anymore regardless of anything else.
Really, to make science captains viable in PvE there needs to be a reason to use SNB against NPCs, that either means NPCs need to gain very big buffs that have approximately the same CD as SNB, or they need to use many buffs at the same time.
Getting further OT, sure, but in order for engineer captains to be viable in PvE NPCs need to do enough damage to be threatening. That you never need to worry about dying takes all of the excitement out of PvE.
TSS - Ok
HE - Should not clear location debuffs
Tractor beam - I like the idea of holding the target relative to you, but that would not reduce the target's defense due to speed. Maybe apply a defense debuff on top of the speed decrease?
TBR - I think it should push farther at the higher Aux settings. Didn't know about using low aux to maximize damage, that's a great idea.
polarize hull - Ok
Tachyon beam - totally useless IMO. On top of buff, recommend increasing firing angle to 180*, or let the beam continue after target has left the firing angle, ie a gravity well doesn't go away when you point away from it.
CPB & PS - Weak.
Photonic officer - Seems pretty ineffective. Not sure what concerns are with Aux2Batt, we've tested it with 3 blue/purple DOFFs and it seems a serious investment for not-much value. I say change PO to reduce weapon cooldowns, perhaps eliminate shared cooldowns for X seconds.
Agree with the of the general comments.
It does need to be tweaked to have some uses in pve, but in pvp its fine how it is.
I thought the duration of the ability was 4 seconds, with -TRIBBLE drain per pulse for up to 10 pulses.
Imo, it's fine. I think of it as a means of stealthing travel, not stealthing in combat.
I'd like to see Sector PvP at some point and then this would shine more as a means of hiding ship movement.
For PvE it's semi usefull for sneaking around @ full aux and avoiding agro. There aren't many maps that take advantage of this though. The gorn fleet and Kerrat are the only 2 that come to mind.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
would like the heal to be a bit faster tofinish but thats my opinion
I too would like to know the BS Star Trek reason as to how it clears a spatial anomoly when i'm sitting in it.
ya should be a ship system other wise maybe make TB 2/3 target the 2 or 3 (depending on rank) closest enimies. I know it would be to OP for PVPers but still good in PVE in some circumstances
Yep
Lose the CD with HE
Tachyon Beam
- Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%. To clarify: against a NPC or a player with resists, this 10 sec ability will drain 10% of their shields. fixing resists would help in pvp, but raising efficiency would help both PvE and PvP
ya PVP complained to much now its nerfed to nothing plus the range should be raised to 7.5km or a full 10km
Concer
ya
i use GWell 3 partailly speced for it but it cant hold fighters thats rediculous
lose the CD with GWell
have always thought it should be an AoE similar to Starship scattering field only aplying same effect
has been nerfed to far
agree
147% true
for VA ppl who want a cloak on a non GX or Defiant i guess its good. idk i only use it as a toy to make my ship the awesome black color
totally agree
i suggest a new science skills
"System hack"
Target ally; allows player to use abilities threw allies ship. (example me in sci ship i can use TBR3 threw my ally in an escort)
Target enemy: temporaily disables any sharded skill(s) both players have (i.e. if both players have E-team and EPTS they are disabled for X amount of time)
(Not to good on as offensive skill PVE but oh well.)
its not just the skills that are bad, its the skill tree too. for the science part of the skill tree do the following
do away with subspace decompiler as it is now, and distribute the powers it effects into graviton generators and countermeasure systems. then make decompilers a shield drain resistance, let power insulators only defend your power levels. CPB and tach beam could be made dangerous, but to defend against it to the levels you can now you have to spend points in a very expensive skill. power insulates are too cheap and have too much roled into them. the skills that buff damage, flow cap and particle gen are too cheap too, and should both be at the same level. reorder the skill tree as such
tier 1
Starship Sensors- buff stealth detection, FOMM, duration reduction from confuse and placate
Starship Shield Emitters- buff shield ability effectiveness
tier 2
Starship Countermeasure Systems- buffs duration for confuse and placate, subsystem disables from vm and target systems
Starship Shield Systems- buff shield hit points
tire3
Starship Power Insulators- resistance from any power drains
Starship Inertial Dampeners- resistance from holds, repel, stuns
tier4
Starship Flow Capacitors- buffs power and shield drain
Starship Particle Generators- buffs dots, and science abilities that deal kinetic damage. is also a second buff to shield drains like tach beam and CPB
tier 5
Starship Graviton Generators- buffs knock, repel, slow, holds, and improves the duration of your Holds and Disable
Starship Subspace Decompiler- resistance from shield draining other then direct damage.