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Sci abilities listed

dassemstodassemsto Member Posts: 792 Arc User
edited November 2012 in PvP Gameplay
List of sci boff abilities and how they fail:
Edited in yellow

Sci Team
- needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT. Seems to be disputed.

Transfer Shield Strength
- Is OK

Hazard Emitters
- Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon, tykens... should only clear applied debuffs (plasma fire, acetone etc), not location debuffs (like siphon, tykens)

Tractor Beam
- Ok as ship ability Higher levels should hold better. )"as ship ability" means not ok as pet/mine ability)

Tractor Beam Repulsors
- Is OK

Polarize Hull
- A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed

Tachyon Beam
- Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%. To clarify: against a NPC or a player with resists, this 10 sec ability will drain 10% of their shields. fixing resists would help in pvp, but raising efficiency would help both PvE and PvP

Charged Particle Burst
- Same as Tachyon beam

Photonic Shockwave
- Needs to get range and damage slightly increased. And stun properly! Damage should be tied to aux power (?)

Photonic Officer
- Needs to be made a lot more effective.

Gravety Well
- Pulls too weak, damages too little

Tykens Rift
- Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts

Jam Sensors
- Basically useless. Needs remake.

Scramble Sensors
- Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff.
- TRIBBLE in PvE, as all the good NPCs are immune

Energy Siphon
- Needs a little buff

FBP
- Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.

Mask Energy Signature
- Works ok?

Viral Matrix
- Ok for pvp at the moment for three reasons:
1. Doffs make it a lot more potent
2. Is not aux dependant
3. Everything else is worse.
- useless for PvE


Shared cooldowns that make it a lot worse:
- GW and Tykens
- Tykens and ES, You need the combined drain to acomplish anything.
- TSS and FBP, when FBP can be used to your advantage, that's when you really need TSS.
- HE and PH

Feel free to disagree or add comments or suggest changes.
Post edited by dassemsto on
«1345

Comments

  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,674 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I'll make a few notes of my own on them....
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Sci Team
    - needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT

    Or tac team needs a kick in the nerf spot.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Transfer Shield Strength
    - Is OK

    Agreed its fine.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Hazard Emitters
    - Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon-

    It also clears Tykens.... about the only thing it doesn't do is clear nukes. lol
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Tractor Beam
    - Ok as ship ability
    I like tractor beam 1 as it is... I hate that they made versions 2 and 3 hold longer instead of hold more... that needs a change... its nothing but annoying cause the only thing that runs 2 and 3 are npcs... and I love getting tractored for 16 seconds by some noobs lucky dread call.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Tractor Beam Repulsors
    - Is OK
    Indeed this one works well.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Polarize Hull
    - A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed
    I like the thinking you have here... polarized hull doesn't do enough really... I know its not cannon but ya a small buff to turn rate or something as well could make this one more widely used... not aux to damp good... but something around 50% of an aux to damp might work well.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Tachyon Beam
    - Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%

    Charged Particle Burst
    - Same as Tachyon beam

    On the money these both suck... well they don't suck enough really.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Photonic Shockwave
    - Needs to get range and damage slightly increased
    ya I don't think 5k would be game breaking... and considering the 7.5k bump extend shields got I think it would still be a great synergy of point counter point in the 2... right now the extend counter is at a pretty big disadvantage.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Photonic Officer
    - Needs to be made a lot more effective.
    I am one guy that doesn't want to see a buff to this one... mainly cause due to doffs the potential to abuse Aux to Bat + an improved version would be pretty high. However I could get behind a replacement pak version of the tech doff... that would say increase the effect time of Photonic officer.... this would make it an option with out allowing for the abuse of both abilities together.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Gravety Well
    - Pulls too weak, damages too little
    This one I disagree on... honestly GW is a great skill right now as it is... people don't understand it... honestly a fully speced (graviton) GW... pulls like a mother... throw in doffs to proc secondaries and this skill is honestly pretty usable... when I have built a ship for it I have been able to keep a GW out at pretty much all times with a mix of doffs.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Tykens Rift
    - Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts

    Agreed on this one the doff was a bad idea... its also cleared by hazards wtf ? lol
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Scramble Sensors
    - Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff.
    Also bugged at the moment... I have respawned scrambled and had to log to fix grey out issues... this one needs a complete overhaul and bug pass.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    wile sci skills that drain shields basically don't work, a sci ship with rapid fire cannons and 4 flow cap with 2x TB3s and a Trac Beam doff strip shields harder then CPB and TB ever did. im still not convinced power insulators defends against glider and Trac beam correctly like it does CPB and TB.
  • amidoinitrightamidoinitright Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Tractor beam should be a ship ability, not a Boff skill. Put it on a 1 min cool down with the power of TB1. Boff TB skills could boost the ships tractor beam. The Doff system already assumes I have A Tractor Beam anyway, I keep having missions that require my tractor beam officers to complete. Just yesterday I tractored a Jem Haddar warship. I don't have a tractor beam on any of my ships.
    I like using PH as a hull resist but agree a little turn boost would be nice. & I'm loving my Hazard Emitters, anyone not using this wonder skill is insane. I wonder if Hazard Emitters can debuff insanity.:eek:
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Time played in game. as of 9/12/12 (on my mains) Total 2907 hours.K'zoontite has been on active duty for 34 days, 3 hours, Bot Fly has been on active duty for 55 days, 4 hours, Poppa Capp has been on active duty for 4 days, 12 hours, B'zooka has been on active duty for 12 days, 22 hours,Tater(fed) has been on active duty for 14 days, 10 hours,
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    edited September 2012
    I'd be interested in hearing more opinions on all of the above. As well as testing scenarios, if you run them, even if only anecdotal (no solid figures, that is).
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • icegavelicegavel Member Posts: 991 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    dassemsto wrote: »
    List of sci boff abilities and how they fail:

    Sci Team
    - needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT
    Indeed. Does not last long enough. All Teams should be extended to 10s.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Transfer Shield Strength
    - Is OK
    It's alright, I guess. Good for a transferable HoT.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Hazard Emitters
    - Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon-
    No to this one. It's only real function is to clear those debuffs, it picks up Sci Team's slack. This should be kept as is, any nerf would make it useless.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Tractor Beam
    - Ok as ship ability
    Ehh... I personally think the DoT should go to the hull, and the range needs a little buff. Also, as is, the 4-piece Borg Set tractor beam isn't worth the Shield cap reduc at the moment. Needs CD reduc.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Tractor Beam Repulsors
    - Is OK
    I guess, never used it.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Polarize Hull
    - A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed
    Yes. Even with this, MS can and is reduced by even low-level tractor beams. The damage resistance bonus could also stand to gain a buff.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Tachyon Beam
    - Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%
    This, this, and more this. The power doesn't do the canon justice.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Charged Particle Burst
    - Same as Tachyon beam
    CPB is effectively useless in its design. It's an AoE cloak detect in an environment where cloak detect is useless in PvP and effectively null in PvP, since everyone decloaks outside its range. Unless you're almost certain they're nearby, it's a waste.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Photonic Shockwave
    - Needs to get range and damage slightly increased
    This, but only a little. After all, there is the C-Store PS Torpedo. I'd say a scaling range is in order.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Photonic Officer
    - Needs to be made a lot more effective.
    I totally forgot this existed. This IS totally useless, and that's only because the only cooldowns that are moderately long aren't affected by it. Should affect Captain abilities.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Gravety Well
    - Pulls too weak, damages too little
    I agree with the damage part, but a smart player can really pull that pull off. I typically combine my GW3 with a High Yield Tricobalt, and it's sufficient.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Tykens Rift
    - Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts
    Personally, I've never been a fan of power level reducers, they always seem almost totally useless (unless you're disabling it, most subsystems aren't really affected). In PvP, between resistances and high power settings, it's TRIBBLE.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Jam Sensors
    - Basically useless. Needs remake.
    It's useful in a few situations. My main issue is that it breaks too easily. Should also give damage debuff.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Scramble Sensors
    - Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff.
    Also, a projectile speed increase wouldn't hurt. It is painfully slow.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Energy Siphon
    - Needs a little buff
    See Tyken's Rift.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    FBP
    - Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.
    Try combining it with Reverse Shield Polarity and Tactical Team. Makes a REALLY good DPS Bane setup, even if they're all only tier 1.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Shared cooldowns that make it a lot worse:
    - GW and Tykens
    - Tykens and ES, You need the combined drain to acomplish anything.
    - TSS and FBP, when FBP can be used to your advantage, that's when you really need TSS.

    Feel free to disagree or add comments or suggest changes.
    I don't use Tyken's or ES, so no opinion there, but the TSS/FBP shared CD has been a pain in my behind recently. When I need FBP is usually right after TSS (because I pop RSP, FBP, and Tac Team when my shields are really low, but I also try to boost them with TSS).
  • matteo716maikaimatteo716maikai Member Posts: 823
    edited September 2012
    dont forget the almighty... Mask energy signature.
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,674 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    icegavel wrote: »
    No to this one. It's only real function is to clear those debuffs, it picks up Sci Team's slack. This should be kept as is, any nerf would make it useless.

    Well I agree a 12-26k Hull heal is completely useless. ;)
  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    dassemsto wrote: »
    List of sci boff abilities and how they fail:

    Sci Team
    - needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT
    With husanak on this one, TT needs a major nerf. we can all run our team skills effectively at global CD so i see no reason to buff em. St1-3 are all good don't forget the burst heal.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Transfer Shield Strength
    - Is OK
    +1
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Hazard Emitters
    - Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon-
    sort of agree, pushes resists, clears everything and the cat, needed for STFs, and also makes you ship pretty, could loose some awesomsauce
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Tractor Beam
    - Ok as ship ability
    Scales very poorly TB3 is useless, i don't like how mines can freeze a carrier at full impulse, would like them to be more string like, actually binding ships, not sure how aux scales, but the HOLD is what counts, not the DPS
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Tractor Beam Repulsors
    - Is OK
    for now
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Polarize Hull
    - A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed
    shared CD with HE is the one to keep in mind, slight movement buff would be nice, how about giving some of the HE clearing to PH?
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Tachyon Beam
    - Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%

    Charged Particle Burst
    - Same as Tachyon beam
    agreed, shields resists is the way to buff these
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Photonic Shockwave
    - Needs to get range and damage slightly increased
    while stun chaining sucked, with the new immunites this could go back to being a stun power, should be more equal between tacs n sci
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Photonic Officer
    - Needs to be made a lot more effective.
    has always been useless complete makeover imv
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Gravety Well
    - Pulls too weak, damages too little

    Tykens Rift
    - Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts
    Neither should rely on doff procs, pull is way to weak, would really love to see husanaks build, color me curious
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Jam Sensors
    - Basically useless. Needs remake.
    yup, acc counter, or Beam Target Subsystem counter come to mind
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Scramble Sensors
    - Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff.
    pure griefing power with meh results
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Energy Siphon
    - Needs a little buff
    only if it doesn't break siphon pods
    dassemsto wrote: »
    FBP
    - Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.
    agreed
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Shared cooldowns that make it a lot worse:
    - GW and Tykens
    - Tykens and ES, You need the combined drain to accomplish anything.
    - TSS and FBP, when FBP can be used to your advantage, that's when you really need TSS.

    Feel free to disagree or add comments or suggest changes.

    Viral Matrix
    Current FOTM, only great because nothing you can do about the Doff procs,without em its meh, but the best we have right now. still weaker then a friggin phaser proc (no shields offline) , maybe a slight adjustment to the duration formula?

    Mask Energy Signature

    i loled, completely useless, revamp not even sure how to salvage it without giving feds a cloak.
    Maybe replace it with the KHG 3pc bonus, and give something more usefull to the KHG set?

    Sci Boats
    Beam subsytem targeting 1
    needs a buff, if only on sci boats, cd reduction might also be an option

    Sensor Analysis
    could tic a little faster, if you want sci beam boat to be viable again, we have cruisers with 5 tac consoles now....just saying

  • icegavelicegavel Member Posts: 991 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    dont forget the almighty... Mask energy signature.

    And Viral Matrix... but I use the TRIBBLE out of MES. Any character without a cloak has it, because I'm addicted to Stealth. MES has saved me from a LOT of combat... but my use of it isn't a happy thing. Why can't ALL ships have Cloaking devices? Technically speaking, the original Romulan Star Empire was dissolved after the Hobus supernova. That nullifies the Treaty of Algeron, which means it would be legal for the Federation to develop and utilize cloaking technology.

    And personally, I like the thought of cloaking my Odyssey. Not using cloaks gives the Empire an advantage in the war. If Cryptic wants to really push the war home, have Starfleet go all-out.
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Nail. Head. I agree with Dassem's take on every single power. Shared cd is an especially good point.

    VM is pretty ok, but only because there's not a lot of competition.

    I don't want to derail this discussion of the abilities, but it's made more complex by the crappy sci console situation. Like if an ability does 2 things (hold and damage) you can only spec your consoles for 1 at a time. But maybe we should do a separate thread because this one is pretty on point.
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
  • bobtheyakbobtheyak Member Posts: 374 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    1. Tac team needs to be nerfed more than sci team needs to be buffed
    2. Transfer shields: ok
    3. Hazard: should not clear energy siphon
    4. Tractor beam: ok as a skill but it's too easy to chain two copies. needs more variation in rank
    5. TB repulsors: ok
    6. Polarize: ok but more movement resist sounds fine
    7. Tachyon beam: generally useless
    8. CPB: generally useless
    9. Shockwave: range is fine. A damage increase would be acceptable
    10. Photonic officer: waste of a boff slot. Even with 3 photonic doffs
    11. Grav well: ok but needs the doff to get the most out of it
    12. Tyken's: needs to be rank 3 with doff to be useful
    13. Jam sensors: works fine for non-dps ships
    14. Scramble: maybe buffed by 1 or 2 seconds but not more than that
    15. Energy siphon: is fine except it's too easily cleared by hazard/borg set
    16. FBP: agreed, too weak without tac buffs
    17. Shared cooldowns: low priority
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I'd be interested in hearing more opinions on all of the above. As well as testing scenarios, if you run them, even if only anecdotal (no solid figures, that is).

    A lot of them were under powered from the start, either nerfed in relation to power insulators, and the overall science ship setup itself for weapons doesn't help either since its usually the lowest dps of a group when using a science heavy/support ship. One thing besides science skills that I'd like to see though is a change that a former dev once suggested of transphasics being boosted dramatically in damage but given a much higher cool down so turn and shooting those torps so you could focus on more science tasks in a battle/not being decloaked all the time defeating the purpose of having the EBC. If transphasics and even chronitons if you just put a shield penetration on certain chroniton torps and called it temporal penetration based off where they came from (maybe put a delay timer on those chronitons to when they actually go off so you could tactical team to remove the torpedo and disarm it :))

    Feedback pulse, Tachyon Beam, CPB, and polarize Hull I'd like to see buffed the most though. The tachyon beam and CPB are pretty much useless on the standard resistances npcs have against them and a player doesn't need much more than just a power insulators console equipped to make it useless. The polarize hull is canon like one person said but all its really good for is getting out of tractor beams which most people use omega for anyways. Feedback pulse is just too much of a conditional skill... The first thing is it really has no functionality when you can't hold agro in pve and even then if you spec threat control to maximum it doesn't last long and the cool down is way too long. The easiest counter to it in PvP though is to just stop firing at someone for 10 seconds. I could see though if it could force targeting of a person using it and did more damage without having to make sure you have 125 aux when fireing it. Another thing too is Scramble Sensors just isn't what I believe it should be plus its so short and after its used on someone they get a resistance to it like you can throw another one back on them anytime soon after that LOL. It just does not have any kind of advantage imo. Anyways I hope some decent changes come out of it because I am sure there will be some :D
  • meurikmeurik Member Posts: 856 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    dassemsto wrote: »
    List of sci boff abilities and how they fail:

    Sci Team
    - needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT

    Agreed. As suggested below (under Polarize Hull), active debuffs (generated from an outside source), should not be cleared, but rather given a bit of resistance.

    Transfer Shield Strength
    - Is OK

    Agreed.

    Hazard Emitters
    - Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon-

    Debuffs which are placed on you (fire and forget), should be cleared. Debuffs which are persistent (generated by enemy target, generated by "rifts" etc), should NOT be cleared. See "Polarize Hull" idea below.

    Tractor Beam
    - Ok as ship ability

    Agreed. However, I'd like to see higher ranks give the ability additional "hold" strength, OR preferrably even allow players to "tow" the enemy target for it's duration. Should also be able to be cast on friendly players, in order to "pull them out of danger". For example a ship with engines disabled, stuck in a gravity well.

    Tractor Beam Repulsors
    - Is OK

    Agreed.

    Polarize Hull
    - A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed

    This suggestion I like. Would also see that Polarize Hull, reduces the effectiveness of "Energy Siphon" and "Tyken's Rift", since you are actively shielding the hull from external power drains.

    Tachyon Beam
    - Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%

    Definitely needs a Damage increase. Science doesn't have a whole lot of "Damage abilities", so it would be nice to get some truly offensive powers, to complement our large array of defensive powers.

    Charged Particle Burst
    - Same as Tachyon beam

    Agreed.

    Photonic Shockwave
    - Needs to get range and damage slightly increased

    Neutral. Think it works rather well, but I think all types of effects that are generated "around your ship" should have a consistent range across the board.

    Photonic Officer
    - Needs to be made a lot more effective.

    Neutral. Haven't used the ability much.

    Gravety Well
    - Pulls too weak, damages too little

    Pull is fine, but I agree with the damage being too low. It's not like Science ships can fit a lot of weapons or tactical abilities, so it would be nice to get some damage increase to our "offensive abilities". A Gravity Well is an incredibly strong force (another name, being a black hole), so it's kinda dumb that it's damage potential is like a wet noodle.

    Tykens Rift
    - Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts

    Agreed.

    Jam Sensors
    - Basically useless. Needs remake.

    Jam Sensors should ideally jam the targets sensors, from targeting ANYONE for the duration. Would also be nice if the ability didn't "break" so easily if someone should continue firing on the target.

    Scramble Sensors
    - Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff.

    Similar to Jam Sensors. Target(s) sensors should be scrambled as such that they quite literally CAN'T target a specific enemy for the duration. The caveat being, that while the sensors are scrambled, they might still hit you.

    Energy Siphon
    - Needs a little buff

    Neutral. Haven't used much.

    FBP
    - Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.

    Haven't used Feedback Pulse in a while, but I thought it's strength was acceptable at the time. Rather than being a "buff" on your ship, Feedback Pulse should however be a Debuff placed on the enemy ship, which causes it's next attack, or next attack(s) for a duration, to inflict self-damage.

    Added my two cents in Yellow.
    HvGQ9pH.png
  • webdeathwebdeath Member Posts: 1,570 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    dassemsto wrote: »
    List of sci boff abilities and how they fail:

    Sci Team
    - needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT

    I Think all team powers should clear buffs for 10 seconds.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Transfer Shield Strength
    - Is OK

    Agreed.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Hazard Emitters
    - Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon- & Tyken's Rift

    Agreed that Hazard clears too many debuffs.

    dassemsto wrote: »
    Tractor Beam
    - Ok as ship ability

    Tractor Beam Repulsors
    - Is OK

    I agree both work fine as they are.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Polarize Hull
    - A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed

    Honestly, I think the way Polarized Hull should work, is Polarized Hull 1 doesn't provide FULL Immunity vs Tractor Beams but perhaps a Resistance vs Immobolizes in general. Perhaps Version 1 Can provide up to a 40% Resist with some skill.. Version 2 can provide up to a 75% Resist with skill help, and Version 3 gives the full immunity. This would be in addition to the Nice Resist gains given.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Tachyon Beam
    - Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%

    Charged Particle Burst
    - Same as Tachyon beam

    Yeah, Tachyon Beam and Charged Particle Burst kinda blow right now in PVP. In PVE how ever they are fine. But I agree something needs to be done to make them both more effective in PVP.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Photonic Shockwave
    - Needs to get range and damage slightly increased

    I don't know about the Range of Shockwave being increased. I'd be more interested in them increasing the Stun duration slightly.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Photonic Officer
    - Needs to be made a lot more effective.

    Maybe it should also reduce GLOBAL cool downs. But that's my thoughts on that one.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Gravety Well
    - Pulls too weak, damages too little

    Hmm.. this one I don't know if I agree with.. But It would be nice if engine power played a bigger factor in the pull. And varied with each version of Gravity well. With Gravity well 3 perhaps needing at least 75+ Engine power to escape, but Gravity well 1 would be as Gravity well is now. Also perhaps make it so the damage automatically bypasses shields or something.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Tykens Rift
    - Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts
    To true. Hazard Emitters first needs to stop clearing Tykens. Then perhaps double the amount of Stacking that Tykens can do. Because currently it caps out at 2 Stacks and those are heavily Resisted by the same skills that resists Energy Siphon.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Jam Sensors
    - Basically useless. Needs remake.

    A-freeking-greed.. I always figure it should work as follows:
    Jam 1 single target placate
    Jam 2 Multi target Placate (Up to maybe 2-4 targets tops including NPC's)
    Jam 3: Mass target placate (Fires a Scramble like Blob that effects all enemies in the radius)
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Scramble Sensors
    - Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff.

    Sensors Resists it too heavily. With a good 6 Points in Sensors I hardly notice even Scramble 3 for too long.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Energy Siphon
    - Needs a little buff

    Honestly, I think it should drain twice as much as it gives. So if it gives +40, it should drain -80 With resists bringing it down to -20 maybe? Or Resists + Consoles + Deflector bringing it down that far.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    FBP
    - Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.

    Agreed. Especially Versions 1 and 2. FBP 3 how ever can be useful even with out Tac buffs, but with Tac buffs it's a Monster. Perhaps just remove the ability to buff it and bring it up to where tac buffs are now, then do the same for FBP 1 and FBP 2
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Shared cooldowns that make it a lot worse:
    - GW and Tykens
    - Tykens and ES, You need the combined drain to acomplish anything.
    - TSS and FBP, when FBP can be used to your advantage, that's when you really need TSS.

    Feel free to disagree or add comments or suggest changes.

    You forgot Viral Matrix. Which works fine, but is stronger with Doffs.
    You think that your beta test was bad?
    Think about this:
    American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bobtheyakbobtheyak Member Posts: 374 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    webdeath wrote: »
    I Think all team powers should clear buffs for 10 seconds.

    Agreed but the secondary shield distribution effect from tac team shouldn't last as long as the buff clearing effect.
  • ghostyandfrostyghostyandfrosty Member Posts: 864
    edited September 2012
    dassemsto wrote: »
    List of sci boff abilities and how they fail:

    Sci Team
    - needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT
    Dear God No. That's actually the single worst part about TT is the debuff clear.

    Transfer Shield Strength
    - Is OK
    Agreed though mark 1 can use a boost

    Hazard Emitters
    - Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon-
    agreed completely. The only thing this damn thing should clear is Warp Plasma.

    Tractor Beam
    - Ok as ship ability
    Agreed

    Tractor Beam Repulsors
    - Is OK
    Agreed

    Polarize Hull
    - A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed
    yep

    Tachyon Beam
    - Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%

    Charged Particle Burst
    - Same as Tachyon beam
    Both of these skills need to have their resistances dialed back (so that max spec = 25 percent Resistance.. not 50)

    Photonic Shockwave
    - Needs to get range and damage slightly increased
    Actually all it needs is a damage boost, and have it regain the ability to actually stun a target. Whoever decided that you should be able to use Team abilities through it needs to get fired

    Photonic Officer
    - Needs to be made a lot more effective.
    I remember initially how excited soupy and I were to get our PO3 boff... and then how disappointed we were almost immediately afterwards... I don't know if there's really a way to fix this either. Maybe just trash the ability all together as it is now, and replace it with some kind of super sci skill buff instead

    Gravety Well
    - Pulls too weak, damages too little
    Yep

    Tykens Rift
    - Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts
    Too weak as normal. works fine with Doffs. Seriously man it's a 1 a minute shot. ontop of that, you need it to proc 2 times . And that's far from a reliable strategy to use it. I think if they gave it a slight negative repel value it could go along way to fixing it's issues.... oh yeah, and hazards shouldn't clear it

    Jam Sensors
    - Basically useless. Needs remake.
    Stupid TRIBBLE ability. It should be an AOE that lasts 7 seconds unless broken or cleared

    Scramble Sensors
    - Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff.
    Stupid TRIBBLE game mechanic period, that has no place in pvp. I say sack it all together

    Energy Siphon
    - Needs a little buff
    I'm not so sure about that. I get all giggly every time I deploy it, and then deploy a Tykens, and target sub spam

    FBP
    - Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.
    Honestly it's fine on either tac or sci. For tacs to utilize it properly it comes at great expense to their shield tanking during FBPs duration (god forbid you get Sub Nuked during it's start up phase. Also stop shooting the guy with Overloads seriously that's the only way tac buffed FBP2 or 3 kills you faster than you can react people) for Sci you can still hold Sci Fleet in reserve if necessary and sen scan.

    Shared cooldowns that make it a lot worse:
    - GW and Tykens
    - Tykens and ES, You need the combined drain to acomplish anything.
    - TSS and FBP, when FBP can be used to your advantage, that's when you really need TSS.
    GW and TR have 0 business sharing a CD. Same with Tykens and ES... FBP and TSS however, yeah they should. Otherwise you'd be a complete moron to not have FBP on your ship, no matter what class you play

    Feel free to disagree or add comments or suggest changes.

    Responses are Bolded.
  • darkwhite0darkwhite0 Member Posts: 158 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    bobtheyak wrote: »
    1. Tac team needs to be nerfed more than sci team (...)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc

    do not touch this
  • bobtheyakbobtheyak Member Posts: 374 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    darkwhite0 wrote: »

    Gonna have to steal that one :D
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    all team skills should clear for 10 seconds!? what the hell people, whats wrong with you. try 1 second, as in it clears what you are afflicted with at the time of its activation, without some immunity period for an entire 5-10 seconds.

    ET and ST should get a 10 second long buff to something though, hull repair for ET and shield emitters for ST, to improve the healing of other like healing skills for a wile. its like how TT buffs weapons training for 10 seconds. and these buffs should be high, like +24, +32,+40 to skill points in these skills.
  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    all team skills should clear for 10 seconds!? what the hell people, whats wrong with you....

    This^^^ also agree with the rest.
  • toivatoiva Member Posts: 3,276 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I'll leave the full lists to more experienced players, but I want to stress the negative impact of long/shared CDs.

    One example is Polarize hull, it shares a CD with Hazard emitters. And since most people (at least in PvE) run Hazard, they just can't use Polarize effectively. Other than that, the ability itself is very nice and seems to work well against holds and co. Often, there's just no place for it.

    Another example are the deflector abilities: Tachyon beam, Gravity Well, Tyken's Rift and Energy Siphon. These are all useful (well, would be, if resists to them weren't so high, looking at you ES and TB), but have overall very long CDs, plus they start CDs on each other (even 45s long). It means you often can use just one in one fight, while it won't be available in the next.

    With all of those shared CDs, it feels like a Tier 5 science ship with 7-8 sci boff slots had only like half, since the other half will only come off CDs in your next enemy encounter. Why use a science ship then? Just use another with 2 sci boff slots and choose 2 abilities that don't share CDs, and you can do the same! (I know, it's very simplified, and with a Sci Lt., you still can't use GW and other shiny abilities, but still.)
    TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class.
    Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
    Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.

    Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
  • eradicator84eradicator84 Member Posts: 1,116 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I'm coming at this with PvE only in mind, don't play PvP.
    dassemsto wrote: »
    List of sci boff abilities and how they fail:

    Sci Team
    - needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT

    I stopped using this a long time ago. I'm no sci captain but do fly sci ships. Along with every other ship I fly TT1 is always in cool down during combat, thus all 'team' abilities are too, with EPtS and TSS, during combat this skill is almost useless as a shield heal (because I can't fire it off or if so can't rebalance shields manually quick enough which is another issue all together) compared to having TT's shield re balance operating.

    If people are complaining about TT's shield rebalance, maybe make a separate skill that solely does shield balancing and make TT just damage focus? Only problem is that cruisers really need TT1 to remain as is due to lack of tac/sci slots.

    Though Sci Team should be the one to balance shields seeing as it's the power that heals them too, but that would make an easily accessible ability (shield rebalance) harder to equip on non sci ships cause then you'd have to sacrifice HE or TSS. If manual redistribution speed was inproved perhaps this could work?


    Transfer Shield Strength
    - Is OK
    Functionally it's good. Graphically I miss having the line from the caster to the recipient, it was good knowing who's doing the healing.

    Hazard Emitters
    - Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon-
    I use this more for the hull heal than the cleanse. Hull heal is good. Not sure about cleansing being OP

    Tractor Beam
    - Ok as ship ability
    Sort of ok but no reason to use higher versions. I really like the idea someone had of being able to tow things around when using this. A tractor beam that can't pull things along seems strange come to think of it. Would add another game play mechanic and be more canon at the same time.

    Also, what if hull damage was tied to the ship being tractored throttle speed? eg if at full throttle your hull should take more damage. If 0% throttle then less or no damage?


    Tractor Beam Repulsors
    - Is OK
    Agreed works well

    Polarize Hull
    - A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed
    I think this (PH1 anyway) is mostly ok really. But maybe make hold resists scale up with higher PH levels? PH3 has more hull resist but no extra hold resist benefit?

    Tachyon Beam
    - Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%
    Agreed. Completely useless. I'm specced into drains and it's easier to use ES3 then TR1 with Beam target shield subsystem to completely turn the shields off than it is to drain them. Then often if a cubes shield facing is down (the one you're firing at), then that's usually all that anyone cares about.

    Drain buff needed.

    In addition how about a reverse shield balance effect? So the opposite of what TT does, move shield capacities AWAY from facings taking damage? That could be cool skill, just use TT1 to counter or fill up your shields so there's no where left to move the shields away to. Could be interesting


    Charged Particle Burst
    - Same as Tachyon beam
    Tried it, underwhelming. Amount of shields removed needs increasing and maybe being a particle burst (think chaff in modern warfare) make affected enemies accuracies drop a little for a bit.

    Photonic Shockwave
    - Needs to get range and damage slightly increased
    Agree

    Photonic Officer
    - Needs to be made a lot more effective.
    Useless. Mainly because the cooldown on it is CRAZY long. Always better off going the doff route and gaining an extra sci power.

    Cool down should be like 1 min 30s perhaps at best.

    Or, make it a 1 minute cool down, but instead of staying active for 60s, it instantly brings all powers back to a ready state. THAT would be powerful.

    Perhaps also provide some sort of buff depending on your captain? So tac get a certain buff, scis another and engineers another again? Or just make it affect captain powers too.

    Not worth the slot atm with a 3 or 5 (forgot which) minute cool down when you can slot another power that fires every minute or something.


    Gravety Well
    - Pulls too weak, damages too little
    I think it's mostly ok actually. The pull in PvE is a bit weak but I'm only using GW1 with nothing specced into graviton gens, so maybe that's ok.

    I regularly have raptors and bops in CSE escaping my GW1's while on their way to kang. So maybe a little pull increase at the lower end?


    Tykens Rift
    - Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts
    A little extra drain at level 1 would be nice, and maybe a weak pull factor too needs to be added, a pull weaker than GW1 but imo a rift in space needs a slight pull factor, would help getting the best out of it drain wise as I think the drain is higher at the centre?

    Jam Sensors
    - Basically useless. Needs remake.
    Haven't really used this so just brain storming.

    Add a highish weapons accuracy debuff and/or maybe make it so the affected players weapons just go into fire at will/scatter volley/torp spread mode, so they can't actually control who they're firing at.

    Should be like your targeting sensors are jammed, can't get a lock on anything so if you do fire you don't know who or what you'd be shooting at (even if it's your own team mates you end up shooting).


    Scramble Sensors
    - Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff.
    Agreed. Maybe also make this an AoE accuracy debuff too?

    Also PvE content needs fixing. Against borg in stfs my apparent 10 second skill lasts all of 1 or 2 seconds making it mostly useless. I under stand borg would be more resistant but resisting 80% of it!?? Ok yes canon wise but it's not great game play wise.

    Also in No win scenario it apparently does nothing? Not cool, it's a viable option and should be allowed.

    In fleet events I'm also unsure of it's performance. Usually too busy to keep track of how it performs. I see no reason why it's shouldn't work as intended though.


    Energy Siphon
    - Needs a little buff
    I think it's ok actually (well ES3 anyway maybe ES1 and too need a little increase), not sure how it goes vs enemies with insulators though.

    FBP
    - Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.
    I tend to agree. I like the idea of it but often switch it for something with better effect.
    It has a long cool down and doesn't last long enough imo. Even chaining two of them together I feel like I'm wasting two sci spots cause they're in cool down for long periods

    Perhaps for it's duration it should also raise your threat level too? To help it to be used to full effect.

    ALSO, deflector doffs don't buff it's cool down in any way, they buff other things that use the deflector like GW and TR but not FBP. It should be included there. Or a boff that buffs FBP damage along with some other sci abilites so you could use them for a an offensive sci build


    Shared cooldowns that make it a lot worse:
    - GW and Tykens It's ok I think, TR just needs a little gravity effect itself imo
    - Tykens and ES, You need the combined drain to acomplish anything. I think these two are fine. In PvE at least though I do only use ES3, so maybe lvls 1 and 2 need looking at. But having Tach beam in shared cool down with these two I don't like.
    - TSS and FBP, when FBP can be used to your advantage, that's when you really need TSS.I hear you but I think it's ok. They use the same "deflector field" system so they need to share cool downs, besides you have EPtS and ST plus batteries to draw on before needing TSS.

    Feel free to disagree or add comments or suggest changes.


    Viral Matrix - There's no other powers I can chain this with really to keep sub sytems disabled. Drains, crowd control, heals all have multiple powers that can be used that deliver varying degrees of the same thing, disables though, apart from viral matrix there's nothing it can be chained with.

    Charged burst and shockwave disable/stun but for very short times. so we have a long and short disable skill but no medium disable skill. A new sci power needs adding, or an existing sci power needs to be made a medium disable skill too so disable builds can build something using decompiler skills
    AFMJGUR.jpg
  • treagersamatreagersama Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Sci Team
    - needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT

    I LIKE this idea... if you want balance, then having a SIMPLE solution is usually better than a complicated one. All team skills should eliminate one kind of debuff (Sci/Eng/Tac), heal one system (Shields/Hull/-small weap buff-) and give an immunity for 10 sec. What the hell is so hard about that? LOL

    Transfer Shield Strength
    - Is OK

    Used to use this skill a lot, but honestly Emergency Power to Shields has always been my heal/buff of choice. So I suppose it's good as is. Not too strong/weak, just as it should be.

    Hazard Emitters
    - Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon-

    I think Haz Em should clear all PHYSICAL debuffs. Plasma fires, radiation, freezing cold... things of this nature. How a halon system can counter a system wide drain of power, is beyond my level of understanding. LOL Oh, and the sheer idea of calling this skill USELESS without the debuff cleansing, is rediculous. The sheer hull healing power is the BEST that Sci has to offer, hands down. This skill comes standard on EVERY ONE of my builds.

    Tractor Beam
    - Ok as ship ability

    I sort of wish that this was a standard skill on all ships to some degree, like escorts would come with TB1, Cruisers would get TB2, and Sci would get TB3. The cooldowns would be like 3 min or so. That way it would be more like canon, and we could do away with all the nonsense pertaining to this skill in the first place. Since the cooldown would be so long, the potential for 'abuse' would be zero. However I think I read someone saying using a tractor beam to 'pull allies', out of rifts and whatnot. While GREAT in theory and in canon, this would be a grief machine of cataclysmic porportions... but pulling enemies could be damned fun, and practical!!!

    Tractor Beam Repulsors
    - Is OK

    I once underestimated the usefulness of this power, but still can't make it practical without a fleet of like-minded, and crafty friends. I once played a match against 5 guys with all sci ships with tricobalt mines/torps and this damned skill. Every one of my team mates were being shoved around the map, scattered, stunned, rocked, and rolled until I swear I had no idea what was going on. One of my teammates ended up glitching inside the cracked planetoid and couldn't get out for the rest of the match. Yeah, this still is fine where it is.

    Polarize Hull
    - A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed

    Another skill I equip standard, if I have a third sci slot handy. Just the resistance buff by itself is oh so delicious... would I like to see it buffed? Uh, yeah, duh... SHOULD it be buffed? I would be lying if I said there wasn't a conflict of interest here, since I already use the skill regardless. LOL

    Tachyon Beam
    - Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%

    I have ONLY ever used this skill in my miranda, because I litterally had NO choice at the beginning of the game. I loathe this skill, and it's complete and utter failure to provide me with any use whatsoever. I have actually made a build based on TB3, with all the pertinent consoles and aux at 100, AND all tetryon beams... and still couldn't make this as usefull as any of the other sci skills with the same investment. DEFINATE buff needed.

    Charged Particle Burst
    - Same as Tachyon beam

    Now I have to disagree with this one a bit. While it could absolutely use a buff (No doubt about that) this is actually a nice skill for just raw damage. It has a 5km range, AoE, Hits ALL shield facings at once, Potential to hit multiple foes at once, Respectable cooldown, No resistance against it... other than the fact it needs to do MORE shield damage, this skill ROCKS the way it is! Although another way to look at it, is to just do a hard percentage of shields instead of an actual number. Something like:
    CPB lvl 1= 20% shields removed
    CPB lvl 2= 40% shields removed
    CPB lvl 3= 60% shields removed
    This would be a 'soft cap' of course and could be ever so slightly improved with consoles/skill points/deflectors...


    Photonic Shockwave
    - Needs to get range and damage slightly increased

    I absolutely LOVE PS... it's just one of those skills that puts a grin on my face everytime I use it. You punch a button, and BLAM... small ships obliterated, torps/mines/boarding parties all cleared... knock escorts around like ragdolls. Although I definately preferred the knockback better in the OLD PS, as the new one seems to have lost a lot of it's visual punch, the damage definately needs to be addressed. I wouldn't even mind an extended cooldown as long as it had more BANG to it. I want to make ships lurch and heave when I fire this thing off... not shrug and continue on their way!

    Photonic Officer
    - Needs to be made a lot more effective.

    While I DO love cooldown reducing skills... I have never used PhOff. Not even once. I can't justify taking up a skill slot with a skill thats not really a skill... but a skill 'enhancer'. My skill slots are damned valuable, and honestly if I can find room for another copy of Haz Emitters or something more tangible, I usually will.

    Gravity Well
    - Pulls too weak, damages too little

    Next to PS, this is just about one of my favorite skills in the entire game. You rip a freakin hole in SPACE/TIME and it pulls ships into it's center and CRUSHES the hull like an egg. Just visually striking, and honestly just about as hilarious as it gets when combines with chronitons, and tricobalts, tractor beams... ect ect. Nothing quite like seeing an enemies shields nearly at full, but their hull is half gone due to the 3 wells eating away at them. LOL While I would desperately LOVE a buff to the dmg/pull of this skill, those of us who use this skill almost exclusively as sci captains... probably shouldn't be given any MORE reason to whip this thing out. Honestly if it DID get a buff, it should have a longer cooldown. Every 30 seconds seems... silly... to rip a hole in space time, ya know? Maybe every 60, or even min and a half... that seems like a more comfortable timeframe for such a catastrophic anomaly to be unleashed upon our universe yeah?

    Tykens Rift
    - Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts

    Never ever liked, or appreciated energy drains. Energy comes back so fast, batteries/emergency power skills/consoles seem to counter them so easily, and cruisers feel nothing more than a slight tug. Honestly instead of a full system drain, how about it picks ONE system at random and RAPIDLY drains it. Not instantly, but pretty quickly. Also each level of rift could have a 'soft cap' on it. For example:
    TyR lvl 1= Drains down one subsystem to 50% of it's current setting.
    TyR lvl 2= Drains down one subsystem to 30% of it's current setting.
    TyR lvl 3= Drains down one subsystem to 10% of it's current setting.
    So if you use a TyR lvl 2 on an enemy, and it targets their shields, and his current shield power lvl is 60, then it would drain it down to 30% of 60... which equals 20. This would be a 'soft cap' of course and could be ever so slightly improved with consoles/skill points/deflectors...


    Jam Sensors
    - Basically useless. Needs remake.

    Used this skill at first, but found it to be too 'touchy' when it came to what it considered 'damage'. I don't like that even a single accidental beam/torp can cancel out this skill and render it useless. It shoud be a fire and forget skill, for at least a few seconds. If I might be so bold as to suggest that it automatically treats the jammed ship as your ally, so no autofire or accidental shots happen while the skill is active? So the affected ship can do nothing but attack someone else, or just sit helplessly and heal while you effectively become invisible to him for the duration of the skill. Lengthen the duration a bit and then it would be pretty usefull... as an amendment, perhaps a better solution, is that you can't directly target the affected ship with direct damage attacks like beams/torps ect... but AoE can still affect him... rifts/mines/splash damage/ship explosions ect.

    Scramble Sensors
    - Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff.

    Love using this skill, HATE playing against it. I personally enjoy the confusion and crafty carnage that results... but man it can get messy fast. I think other than tweaking how it behaves (making it easier to cleanse the debuff without healing your enemy) this skill is fine as is.

    Energy Siphon
    - Needs a little buff

    Please refer to Tykens Rift... only this might be a bit more powerful since it's not AoE. Perhaps the drain is more intensified, or it could also be SLOWER, but also cancel all standart EPS power regen for the duration. So instead of your weapons constantly firing and repowering after each cycle, they stay below the energy syphon threshold. Tykens could be an AoE, rapid, single system drain... Energy Syphon could be a single target, persistant, slow all system drain.

    FBP
    - Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.

    I think FBP SHOULD be rediculously powerful... it ONLY works when being directly attacked, it has a short duration, long cooldown, and is SUPER easy to identify when your attacking a ship that has it engaged... to make it easier to stop killing yourself. LOL So yeah, based on all those perameters, I think FBP SHOULD have the ability to CREAM anyone careless enough to keep firing at you, even though it's obvious why you shouldn't. LOL

    Shared cooldowns that make it a lot worse:
    - GW and Tykens

    I can't agree with this, I usually take both when I make a 'spacial anomaly' sci captain anyway. You can stagger them, and honestly when one is done firing, the other is usually cooled down. I can normally have one anomaly after another continually open within a few seconds of each other.

    - Tykens and ES, You need the combined drain to acomplish anything.

    I totally agree with this. As is, energy drains don't do much. If you refer to my ideas above though, it can be far more useful.

    - TSS and FBP, when FBP can be used to your advantage, that's when you really need TSS.

    If FBP gets a buff, then this would be pointless, as anyone careless enough, or desperate enough to try to pound through your FBP to kill you... would probably kill himself first anyway. LOL

    Feel free to disagree or add comments or suggest changes.

    I would seriously like to see more than just nerfs and visual changes to Sci skills. Lord knows they need a little boost. Honestly I think that Sci skills should focus more on DEBUFFS and shield BUFFS than stuns and disables. That way you dont have to worry about those pesky chains that cripple PvP so damned much.
  • meurikmeurik Member Posts: 856 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    all team skills should clear for 10 seconds!? what the hell people, whats wrong with you. try 1 second, as in it clears what you are afflicted with at the time of its activation, without some immunity period for an entire 5-10 seconds.

    ET and ST should get a 10 second long buff to something though, hull repair for ET and shield emitters for ST, to improve the healing of other like healing skills for a wile. its like how TT buffs weapons training for 10 seconds. and these buffs should be high, like +24, +32,+40 to skill points in these skills.

    Gotta agree here. All "Team" skills should provide a short duration buff, as well as a secondary "clear debuff" or similar ability. Different team abilities could theoretically clear different debuffs. Engineering Team for debuffs that slow your ship, and/or disable engines. Science Team for debuffs that drain your shields, and/or disables them. Tactical Team that clears a hostile Boarding Party, as well as restoring disabled weapons.

    Tactical Team: Weapons buff (recharge rate increase?!?) , resistance to Weapons Disable
    Engineering Team: Defense buff (speed/turnrate increase), resistance to Engines Disable
    Science Team: Shield buff (shield regen/small shield heal), resistance to Shields Disable

    Tactical Team "shield re-allocation" could either by moved to Science Team (Since Science generally involves most "Shield" abilities), or moved to a new ability entirely (Science).

    Lastly, I think the "Team" skills should have their shared cooldown REMOVED. Possibly reduce the buff durations even further.
    HvGQ9pH.png
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Tyken's rift.

    I've been running for a long time with a TR II and TR III, with maxed out flow capacitors, particle generators, and a particle generator console. I've tested it against a friend flying a cruiser and his power levels never dropped more than -10 or -20, even if I was holding him with multiple tractor beams in the AOE of the tyken's rift. There are too many possible counters to that: power insulators, emergency power to X, batteries, EPS power transfer, nadion inversion, and i'm probably forgetting some other ones.

    The problem with power drains is that you built it so that the low-average player could even resist it without being skilled properly. This isn't a good design perspective.

    Tachyon beam.

    No effects except on frigates in PvE. And when I say no effect I mean a beam/cannon volley deals more damages than the tachyon beam. In PvP, the firing angle is too small and the effects are insignificant, even with maxed out flow cap.

    My suggestion to fix it: 360 deg (these are science ships, not escorts) fire angle and 15 seconds duration without improving the effect itself. It would be a constant but small drain on shield regeneration, which is the true meaning of a debuff ability. One will have to use EPTS, TSS or batteries to regen its shields, which would balance the thing enough.

    Charged Partcicle burst.

    The worst of all shield rippers! The AOE is too small for such a low effect. There are many possible ways to fix this:
    - Improve the AOE or
    - Give it a boost and remove the useless side effect on cloaked ships or
    - Reduce the CD and no shared CD with any other ability

    Tractor beam.

    It's ok... If you're trying to catch a cruiser. There are too many resists and escape possibilities for an escort with this ability to make it significant.

    I used to run two tractor beams with runabouts on my Atrox. I've never been able to hold some targets for more than 1 seconds: evasive maneuvers, attack pattern omega 1 & 3, dilithium burst, polarize hull... Any of these abilities can break a tractor beam without effort and it's possible to outnumber the number of tractor beams any sci can slot with that. Furthermore none of these resist ability has a cost for its owner, since it gives a dmg resist or dmg buff. If you use any of these abilities (evasive excluded) you kill two birds with one stone.

    Ways to fix the tractor beams:
    - Make tractor beams 2 and 3 significantly stronger You'll need an attack pattern omega 3 or a polarize hull III to escape a TB 3, nothing less. AND (these fixes goes together)
    - You receive a significant damage to hull if you escape from a tractor beam, because you're tearing your hull apart. Ok you escaped but not without damage, to compensate the damage resists the hold resists give you.

    This way, whatever your opponent does, the TB isn't a pointless skill you can counter for "free" with damage resists as a bonus.

    Tractor beam repulsor.

    Works fine, no complaints. A graviton console is required to make it significant.

    Feedback pulse.

    Could be more interesting. I'm using one currently on my recluse because it's one of the 'not that great but could be usefull sci ability'. I'm running my ship with two MK XII purple particle generator consoles and it's still meh for the FPB II.

    The CD is a bit too long for such a low damage output. Why not adding another ability to it such as some damage resist debuff on the targets?

    Jam sensors.

    Oh wait, there are many other targets. :D

    Photonic shockwave.

    Typically an empty sci BO slot filler as it is.

    The AOE is too small and the disable effect way too short to make it sci/significant.

    Jam sensors.

    Too expensive in skill points to make its limited effects worth it. Can be annoying as it is but who is stupid enough to fire at his team mates when his sensors are scrambled? :D

    Didn't try the other skills so I can't tell more about them.
    Lenny Barre, lvl 60 DC. 18k.
    God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    My 2 cents:

    Charged Particle Burst and Tachyon Beam need to become more effective - at the same time, they should not "stack to well" with itself. I don't think it's good if 2 or 3 SVs using these will drain the enemy team of all their shields - but a single CPB or TB should be a force to be reckoned with. So apply resistances as "aftereffect", simplar to how PSW works (but only as resistance, not immunity).

    Photonic Officer:
    Yeah, this one needed a buff for a long time. Care will need to be taken in how it works together with other cooldown reducing powers. Maybe simply make it so that reductions never stack.
    Make the reduction only dependent on your skill rating (something between 15 to 35 % perhaps), and the rank of the power affect the duration. Each PO has global cooldown 20 second, recharge 60 second. PO I lasts 20 seconds, PO II lasts 30 seconds, PO III lasts 40 seconds. You could chain 3 PO Is for 100 % uptime, 2 PO IIs for 100 % uptime, and one PO I and one PO III for 100 % uptime this way. Yes, that's 100 % cooldown reduction at all times. That's why the magnitude of the recharge buff is relatively low compared to now.


    Feeback Pulse: Assuming we don't let it stack with tac buffs anymore: What if we simply allowed using it on other ships - an ally is hammered by enemies? Pop a FBP on it so they can decide whethe they really want him dead, weakening themselves, or switch target? FBP should not be too powerful, we don't want this to be ending in sudden explosion of 5 enemy vessels. The power level without Tac buffs may be just right for that.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • zerobangzerobang Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Sci Team
    - needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT


    i see SCI team only as a shield heal, no idea what debuffs it might clear,
    except for SNB (it's a must have vs. Breen NPC Ships, but thats about it).
    TAC team is a must have, ENG team is OK to have hull heal, SCI team is only a shield heal...
    personally i rather hull tank than shield tank, Shields don't help much vs. Borg in STFs so hull tanking is where it's at.
    having a TAC + ENG team puts the SCI team on constant global cooldown, so i usually don't use it... EVER.



    Transfer Shield Strength
    - Is OK


    love it... do not touch.


    Hazard Emitters
    - Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon-


    must have for every ship for the healing alone.
    oh and, i absolutely HATE HATE HATE those plasma fire visuals if your ship is hit with that DoT proc, so alone to remove that super annoying visual it's a must have (and guess what Borg shoot at you, bingo Plasma!)

    do not touch!



    Tractor Beam
    - Ok as ship ability


    imho Tractor Beams should be like Air Conditioning in your car, it's default equipment everybody should have one, i don't see how this qualifies as a Science ability.
    Anyway, with the 4 piece Borg Set Bonus i don't see a use in ever using the default tractor beam.
    oh and players can easily counter it with Attack Pattern Omega or Hazard Emitters, both are must have skills so i GUESS it's rather worthless in PvP.


    Tractor Beam Repulsors
    - Is OK

    love this one, pushing the NPCs away from the freighters in that Fleet Mark mission...
    the only "Crowd Control" ability that does it's job in a way that i notice what it's doing.
    i do not see a reason to have more than the lvl1 variant though.
    it's OK for PvP but not awesome.


    Polarize Hull
    - A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed


    hate the new FX visual, why make my Ship glow orange?
    not as bad as the old *smoke* visual but not TREK looking either.
    this one is good for Cruisers that hull tank, or to break tractor beam, but i don't see much use for a Sci Ship.


    Tachyon Beam
    - Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%


    agreed absolutely useless,
    bought the Orion Tier 3+4 Ships with those Tachyon Drones, and they stripped every NPC clear of their shields in a few seconds, that was awesome, now they don't even remove a pixel on the screen, the player version is just as weak, not to mention it has a firing arc that only works in front of you, if it were 360? and a lot stronger (well strong enough to NOTICE on the screen...) then it might not suck.



    Charged Particle Burst
    - Same as Tachyon beam


    was super annoying in PvP before it was nerfed, i hate complete disables that you can't counter, imho DELETE it and replace with a new ability, even the visual FX is ugly.

    Photonic Shockwave
    - Needs to get range and damage slightly increased


    don't even know what this one does...
    got hit by it a million times but i dont think it does anything but a tiny obsolete knock back
    maybe good vs. fighter spam? i dont know...


    Photonic Officer
    - Needs to be made a lot more effective.

    obsolete ability, because the CREW on your ship is obsolete to begin with.
    a few torps and your complete crew is dead, and even with crew at full the passive hull regeneration is so small that it doesn't matter in battle anyway.

    Gravety Well
    - Pulls too weak, damages too little

    i hate those *magic* abilities... these are used on such a regular basis you would think they used it in Star Trek as often as their Phasers, yet it was, if at all maybe in one Episode ever.
    ability wise, i have no idea if it's good or bad because it doesn't give me any information or feedback what it does to the enemy ship...

    Tykens Rift
    - Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts


    same as Gravity Well for me...

    Jam Sensors
    - Basically useless. Needs remake.


    it isn't horrible, but it isn't awesome either, it does what it says it does, it does what you would expect it to do...
    but it should maybe Jam Sensors of more than just one Ship (how rare is a true 1 on 1 in STO?), OR Jam Sensors of one ship but make it unable to target ANY enemy player ship for a few seconds... if he can just swap targets his DPS will still hit my team, so what good does that do me in the long run?



    Scramble Sensors
    - Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff.


    slightly annoying if you get hit by it in PvP, does not make me shoot my team members, only if Beam Fire at Will is active...

    Energy Siphon
    - Needs a little buff


    no... it needs a HUGE buff

    FBP
    - Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.


    i assume this is the one where your ship glows blue and shoots these ugly blue blops back at the attacker when hit?
    i LIKE the idea of it, i don't feel that it is effective.
    in a PvE Team (STF or Fleetmark mission) i can't get the enemy to aggro on my Ship because of my low DPS, even with Threat Control at 6 they ignored me :-(

    in PvP, people just stop shooting at you, if they even care.

    imho this ability needs to have a SHORTER duration, but hit that much harder to make it work in PvP.
    like the first 3 or 4 fire volleys that hit you get multiplied by 5 and shot back at the attacker.
    for PvE the Threat Control skill needs to work a lot better, i want to BFAW, tag every npc in range and tell them hey shoot ME! and then hit FBP to throw it right back at them.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    While we're at it more food for thought:

    Sci Ship consoles

    Ablative Armor
    you wanted to nerf this, but ended up buffing it, not sure about intentions but seems ok to me atm. If anything nerf it a bit

    Tachyon Detection Grid
    biggest lol ever. Makes people lag and dc in spam heavy environments which is great, but doesn't seem to be its designers intentions

    totally useless against NPC cloaking, totally useless buff to self and team, has useless written all over it.
    Remake, this one, buff the cloak detection by 500% and make it apply to NPC as well.
    Make it boost more then just sensors, and make it usefull for something....anything realy [acc] comes to mind

    Tholian Web
    I actually like this one, it does zone denial well without being griefy, the dmg is meh but can hit nice crits. maybe some careful tinkering, by increasin the hit points of the web nodes a bit, or by increasing their stealth.

    Dk'yr shuttle
    haven't used it in a while, seems fine to me, could deserve the carrier controls though.

    I suggest a seperate thread about DOff powers and combos to look out for, once you guys let us know what direction you are considering, this is important, so if you think the feedback from this thread is helpful, consider letting us on in the design discussion early on again.

    PS.: Disagree witch zerobang assessment on pretty much every step
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Tractor Beam
    - Ok as ship ability
    It needs a Vessel Mass factor so when a Defiant TBs my BortasQu' I can drag them with me.


    Polarize Hull
    - A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed
    Its Movement protection needs to be a constant for its duration so multiple TBs do not stack upon it.


    Photonic Officer
    - Needs to be made a lot more effective.
    A lot more since I can use DOffs and get the same effect only better.


    Jam Sensors
    - Basically useless. Needs remake.
    I disagree. When used properly this ability is great for what its suppossed to do.
    Scramble Sensors
    - Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff.
    I disagree. Was hit with this and found it adequate against 5- Sensors and very good against no Sensors.
    Energy Siphon
    - Needs a little buff
    I disagree. Was hit with this last night and found it drained very well against my unprotected vessel. The problem may be that many now skill against drain attacks.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • teleon22teleon22 Member Posts: 424
    edited September 2012
    dassemsto wrote: »
    List of sci boff abilities and how they fail:

    You left out Mask Energy Signature? but I?ll add and comment on that as well.
    Sci Team - needs to cleard debuffs for 10 seconds like TT

    I agree with you here!
    Transfer Shield Strength - Is OK
    Agreed.
    Hazard Emitters - Clears too many debuffs. Including E-siphon

    I agree but do not think that it should clear energy siphon or Tyken rift. That is what Science Team should be for or Engineering Team because really, power systems is the Engineers field.
    Tractor Beam - Ok as ship ability

    Agreed.
    Tractor Beam Repulsors - Is OK

    Agreed.
    Polarize Hull - A bit weak, slight movement resistance increase needed

    I agree! In fact, I think that this ability should have a 20% chance to break a tractor beam.
    Tachyon Beam - Useless due to resists in PvP, and insane shield cap in PvE. Needs to be buffed 400%

    I disagree with your buff idea, sort of? I think that each pulse should drain the shield facing that it pulses against and that the drain should be 400% better per pulse as it is now pulsing against a single shield facing.
    Charged Particle Burst - Same as Tachyon beam

    Shield damage is too easily healed. I think that Charged Particle Burst should remove a single random shield buff from anyone hit by it. It should also de-cloak/ reveal enemy ships hit by it for a few seconds.
    Photonic Shockwave - Needs to get range and damage slightly increased

    I agree, but only a slight increase, not a huge one.
    Photonic Officer - Needs to be made a lot more effective.

    More effective could be made to be broken. Maybe a duty officer that increases duration of its effect.
    Gravety Well - Pulls too weak, damages too little

    I disagree. If fully skilled and focused, GW pulls everything into it!
    Tykens Rift - Too weak as normal, too strong when the doff proc gives 2 or 3 stacking rifts

    Agree
    Jam Sensors - Basically useless. Needs remake.

    I have been recommending that Jam Sensors should be more intuitive. I strongly believe it should placate for 3 seconds (no counter) and then de-buff the Targets ACC significantly (countered by Science Team).
    Scramble Sensors - Too expensive to make it work well. Needs a little buff

    Maybe a very small buff to its duration. Very small however.
    Energy Siphon - Needs a little buff

    It won?t need a buff if they remove the shared cool-down with Tyken rift. Just food for thought on that.
    FBP - Too weak without tac captain buffs, too strong with them.

    I wish that FBP did a 100% feedback to whatever it hit first on a target. That would go a long way in fixing this ability.

    Mask Energy Signature is totally useless in PVE and PVP. It needs to be re-thought. I think, it should be replaced by an ability called: Mask Warp signature. What this would do is fool an enemy ship outside of 5km into thinking you were a friendly target. Thus, the enemy could not target you until you either opened fire or until they were close enough to see that you really are not a friendly. This would be epic on Carriers but whatever! It would at least then have a use.
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