I think you missed the point of his "True Science vessel but with more hull, 4/4 weapons, and not limited to beams" hypothetical.
I read it as being disgusted by the idea that Klingons should get, not just a service-able science vessel, but that it should be more 'warlike' in ways that make it better overall.
Just seemed like the poster was whining with "moral outrage", like you accuse us KDF of doing.
KDF posters wax on philosophic about how the developers have taken everything from the KDF. They won't mention who gave everything to the KDF to begin with of course.
Just seemed like the poster was whining with "moral outrage", like you accuse us KDF of doing.
Yeap another Troll it seems that has joined the ranks. Don't like what they see in here? Then avoid the section. It's a no brainer. It keeps the peace for all of us.
We won't bother you if you leave us alone.
Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
I think you missed the point of his "True Science vessel but with more hull, 4/4 weapons, and not limited to beams" hypothetical.
I read it as being disgusted by the idea that Klingons should get, not just a service-able science vessel, but that it should be more 'warlike' in ways that make it better overall.
I'm sorry, but I'm not entirely sure, but I think we're not on the same topic ATM.
I was referring to this post:
"Targeting sub systems. Feds do it all the time. When a Klingon was ordered to target engines, he blew up the ship. A lucky shot. I do not recall them ever extending shields. When did one ever use a tricorder? So I guess they shouldn't have any of those as they are FED staples."
Seriously, this console is possibly one of the worst offenders in the bunch.
On all the time, its a clear no-brainer choice, no effort required other than shooting your opponent for what is something like +16-20 power to all subsystems if you're spec'd into flow caps.
On top of that, it also drains opponents.
Don't get me wrong, I love running this on my Karfi, Guramba, Hegh'ta and Bortasqu - who wouldn't love the equivalent of Emergency Power to Everything 1 that is basically always on?
Let me fix this cause you did it wrong.
I dont rly understand ur meaning here.
First of all it never was giving +20 power as you say.
It was +17 power only if fully speced into flow caps otherwise it was +8
Now i recall about a month ago it was nerfed from +8/+6
Meaning that max effect will be +12 if fully speced into flow caps
You dont seem to understand for unknown reasons that if feds get leech console no matter if its +8 or +6 and stack it with +10 from maco shields they will be running full powers all over across the board and this is not good for the game balance.
If you dont understand this simple thing then it must mean you desire this OP effect in FED side.
This is not ok even for FED game balance will collapse KDF will vanish with time and game will be play FED only cause thats what we developed only cause we are slackers that want fast easy money
Either give leech console or dont give it just do something NOW!
I wanna know so i dont waste anymore time and real money on my already wasted KDF toon.
If you share leech console with FED then there is no reason at all for me to stick with KDF anymore.
I can do the same build as my KDF only that FED ships will be having more hull and shields than KDF ones.
Yeah its unfair for the KDF but who cares it seems only a few of us do.
So i will just leave KDF and all the money i spented on KDF side to rot.
And i invest time and maybe a few money on fed side since thats the side you seem to strongly favour and develop all the new stuff for.....
I require an official answer
I demand it since i am a good and loyal customer give me the answer and i wont quit the game just KDF side and i will just play FED only since thats the way you like it i will follow but dont expect me to be happy with ur decisions i will just adjust so i keep on having fun espcially with MACO+leech it will be very very funny to wiping out KDF fleets alone.
TY IN ADVANCE DONT FORGET TO ANSWER MY QUESTION PLZ!!!!
Yeap another Troll it seems that has joined the ranks. Don't like what they see in here?
LOL- at least it offers choices.
we can read posts of "KDF posters wax on philosophic about how the developers have taken everything from the KDF" as Jermbot stated or we can read posts where some fedfans put on Airs and tell us our place and how we need to accept it becuase we do not matter as much as they do in STO
Whats funny is the fed On Airs response is just as often as ranty, insulting and condescending as the KDF philosophic tirades, and yet nobody ever seems to say anything. If they do I would imagine they'll be called Whiny.
I think you missed the point of his "True Science vessel but with more hull, 4/4 weapons, and not limited to beams" hypothetical.
I read it as being disgusted by the idea that Klingons should get, not just a service-able science vessel, but that it should be more 'warlike' in ways that make it better overall.
Actually, my point on that is that several times in game I've heard the desire for a Klingon true science ship (which I would agree with) but when my Klingon started to discuss it with them and mentioned the differences like only 6 weapons max, no cannons etc. At every point they said how that did not fit with Klingon style or building and would have to be changed. By the end it was clear that they only wanted a hybrid Battlecruiser/Science that had alle the positives and none of the negatives. How these same SMALL part of the Klingon players really just want everything for them and their way. And how tiring it gets to hear it.
Now if this was a Fed discussion on why they should have their own Bird of Prey I would be in it(if I saw it) mentioning that the model was something I don't think Fed players should fly around in, and there are already
Escorts.
EDIT:
Not disgusted, Tired of. Tired of it becoming a more and more us agains them. We are all players, and frankly we all have to start as feds. There are more Fed then Klingon players. I do not know if that would change with a FULL and COMPLETE faction. I would really love to find out though. Point being I think there are other players like me in the game, based on reactions to complaints that come up all the time. They tire of some of it and are slowly caring less and less about it being fixed. Change the feelings and get more on board for the game as a whole and not a single faction or their own toons. Because it's easy to just think, a full Klingon faction does not affect me any more then the way it sits now. The Feds gain nothing. Or, the possible Romulan faction would not gain from it. Problem is that's just narrow minded. It does and will. A new faction could be treated just as badly as the Klingons are. Less then fifty percent of players or not, a poorly treated faction will affect the Feds also.
assuming anyone wants to make some dumb joke about their performance or anything.
The second gunner that Kruge used in Star Trek 3, managed to Target Subsystem Engines correctly so kilemorgan intentionally ignored that fact since he/she obviously saw the third film.
Not to mention the gunner managed to do that with a torpedo which is probably a whole lot more of a challenge than using a beam.
Do not remember seeing the first 2. As for the third I remember the gunner being told to disable the engines, failing, then being killed. The next ship to show up was the damaged and automated enterprise. I do not intentionally ignore facts. I either did not see that or remember it differently.
I also recall the Defiant using cannons to target sub systems. An argument for making target subsystems useable for more then just beams I suppose.
Point is anyone can try to make anything their faction only, use whatever argument for it they can think of. It still just continues to make things a us vs them situation that SOME are not only going with but dragging way to far.
Bio Neural Warhead...I don't recall a Klingon ship in the Delta stealing it. Yet they have them.
I do not think I've ever seen a Klingon fighter. Seen Fed ones, yet some Demanded the Feds never get a Carrier. It's a staple of Klingon.........Since when??
Targeting sub systems. Feds do it all the time. When a Klingon was ordered to target engines, he blew up the ship. A lucky shot. I do not recall them ever extending shields. When did one ever use a tricorder? So I guess they shouldn't have any of those as they are FED staples.
Get it yet?
Seeing others have addressed the points I was gonna kick about I'll move on to the some of us are selfish thing.
The SMALL GROUP of you that are stomping your foot and Demanding to be given more balls while refusing to share the ones you have. Really?
Yes we would like more "balls," (snickers), to play with. At lest we want our own balls and not the Feds. A thing I have noticed among KDF players is while they say something the Feds have would be nice they seldom ask for it. One might say this is evidence that many KDF players would like to see a degree of unique game play preserved between the factions.
It is not selfish to protect novel game mechanics that could encourage others to try the other faction or reinforce the feel of unique faction play, strategies and tactics.
You expect the Annoying lock boxes to have a Klingon only Console pack now? That's right up there with Demanding a True science vessel, just with more hull points, 4 forward and aft weapons, and not limited to only beam weapons. Want Six Universal Commander stations while you're at it? Shesh.
The only way I expect the annoying lockboxes to carry KDF only consoles is if the Feds also get a novel consoles, that are every bit as cool, of their own when they open that lockbox.
As for the super science cruiser, Nebula. Well you can only mount 6 weapons on it and yes it can mount cannons, well only single cannons and turrets but those are both cannons. Still has far more hull than any other T5 science vessel and a cruiser's turn rate to boot, (which is not a good thing). I think the turn rate limiting the ability to get SNB on a target to throw off opposition team healing is what keeps it out of a lot of PvP play.
Personally I do not want an OP ship and think I am pretty safe to hazard that most of the KDF fans do not want OP ships either. There is a certain satisfaction that comes with getting the job done on your own merits after all. I sense you could agree with that.
Focus on making sure the consoles trades are fair. Not on gimme gimme. Getting more players to support a FULL Klingon faction. Not this horse pucky they are passing off now. Some of this All for us, none for them, or us against them mentality I read turns me off from wanting to even use my Klingon. (Yes, even more then the poor state of affairs the faction is STILL in)
Why have console trades at all? To me few things scream money grab more than console swaps. They have a bigger crew than during beta yet they throw console swaps at us as if it is content. They should have more imagination running amok as they have a larger brain trust. I would like to see some cool new ideas in the way of in game gimmicks and console swaps fail to sell that.
As for the small group of us, many Fed only players have come to agree that somethings KDF should stay KDF and the KDF should be finished. Some of them have already voiced that opinion here in this thread. One of The.Grand.Nagus's threads was a pole that asked what we as players would like to see developed next, highest percentage by a long shot was "Finish the KDF." I can't imagine that only KDF fans participated in that pole. The reality is, as The.Grand.Nagus' pole suggests, a silent majority would like to see the KDF move forward, even if it is only to hasten the addition of Romulans to the game as a playable faction.
That larger work force seems to be bent on getting the Feds happy, which I have little problem with but I would like to know that the KDF will get more resources in the future as they have more resources now. they should be able to continue to grow the Feds and start to follow through on some of those age old KDF promises and I hope they do get around to this sometime in the future.
I have said often in the early days that understanding breeds patience. It would be nice to understand if and when the KDF will get the nurturing it needs to grow beyond what we see today. The way I see it a strong red faction means a stronger game as an added source of reliable revenue is added in the form of more KDF players. Who knows a "finished," (as in not the same amount of mission content right away but enough content to do 1-50), KDF faction could even lure back a sizable amount of the rabid KDF fans that teamed over Qo'noS in the days of open beta.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
Yes, there is only the one good argument for not allowing a lock box trade of the plasmonic leech console, and that can be addressed by making it and the maco shield mutually exclusive.
If Cryptic adds the Plasmonic Leech Console to a lock box then people will think that box is less of a ripoff and there will be some who spend 20 or 30 dollars on lock box keys just to get it. It's a cost effective no-brainer as far as the business goes and so it will happen. Still, that doesn't mean we shouldn't get some enjoyment out of watching certain KDF posters wax on philosophic about how the developers have taken everything from the KDF. They won't mention who gave everything to the KDF to begin with of course.
It is a money thing. Just like the point defense is a money thing. My Klingon bought one for 400k on the exchange though.
Discussing how they have less I have no problem with. Wanting to see a FULL faction I agree with. Having the missions feel right I want myself. The feds in some of those missions use the exact same text as the Orion or Nausicans do in the Fed missions. I expect them to fly in gold painted ships and talk about how they already destroyed their universes Klingons and will now do it here.
It is reading how they Demand or Deserve everything the other faction has, then saying that every single thing they were given is somehow unique to them and off limits. The feds are not allowed to have a single thing be unique to them by some posts. Already there is a thread saying they Deserve a 180 degree torpedo. Argue it with ship hulls and I read and likely agree, unless it's these other race ships. Honestly I feel that if suddenly they said Fed only phasers and Klingon only disruptors there would be the same small subgroup arguing that it wasn't fair, Klingons deserve the phasers, but Klingons only on disruptors.
It is disappointing to read and counter productive. It give the impression that the whole faction only care about their faction within the game and takes away from other to me valid arguments. Or ,just turns people off from reading some of the forum areas.
Do not remember seeing the first 2. As for the third I remember the gunner being told to disable the engines, failing, then being killed. The next ship to show up was the damaged and automated enterprise. I do not intentionally ignore facts. I either did not see that or remember it differently.
I also recall the Defiant using cannons to target sub systems. An argument for making target subsystems useable for more then just beams I suppose.
Point is anyone can try to make anything their faction only, use whatever argument for it they can think of. It still just continues to make things a us vs them situation that SOME are not only going with but dragging way to far.
I agree and I do not agree, sorry.
I agree on cannons used sub-targeting would be cool ,but because of their burst damage potential cannons are bad for subsystems targeting, (especially shields or when coupled with a drain build tossing polarons), and could get OP really fast.
Please forgive my analogy.
It's not just a matter sharing. The more alike the factions are the more vanilla the game. Not that vanilla is a bad flavor but when I buy ice cream I seldom buy just vanilla. Mmmm Ben and Jerry's Rainforest Crunch... Vanilla ice cream with caramel swirl and toffee covered brazil nuts. *drools*
See novel game mechanics are like that. They are what make you pick Rainforest Crunch over Strawberry Cheesecake, or vice versa. Both use vanilla as the base flavor but the features are the draw. If both sides are identical then all you really have is the same flavor of vanilla in a different container with different snazzy graphics wrapped around that container.
The more Feds get KDF mechanics, and vice versa, the more vanilla the game becomes. Then why would you try the other side? Just so you can see the other wrapper? You already played the game.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
Do not remember seeing the first 2. As for the third I remember the gunner being told to disable the engines, failing, then being killed. The next ship to show up was the damaged and automated enterprise. I do not intentionally ignore facts. I either did not see that or remember it differently.
Very well, however I strongly recommend to check your facts before you post in the future.
It helps a lot.;)
I also recall the Defiant using cannons to target sub systems. An argument for making target subsystems useable for more then just beams I suppose.
HMM...well either that or another possibility would be to add "Cannon: Target Subsystem X" and "Torpedo:Target Subsystem X" as tactical BO options.
We do know it's possible form the shows and movies.
Point is anyone can try to make anything their faction only, use whatever argument for it they can think of. It still just continues to make things a us vs them situation that SOME are not only going with but dragging way to far.
The point however is different when you compare two very different things like you did:
Character abilities and consoles.
In STO character abilities are identical (probably because it was easier given STO's rushed release)
In fact there have been some proposals thrown around in the past by players to make some abilities more faction specific, for example to give the KDF other Attack Patterns.
[Not more powerful, just different]
There is however a bit difference when consoles that were created as faction-specific from the beginning are made available to the other side.
Not to mention that faction diversity is something that helps factions to keep their identity and uniqueness.
One of the ways to keep factions interesting is to make them different in one way or another.
In case of STO more and more things that have made the KDF unique have been transferred over to the other side, diminishing the diversity between the two factions.
While I do not agree with everyone who has posted on these matters, I do have to say I fail to understand why this process had to be intiated in the first place.
However if I connect the demands of the Fed playerbase with the current situation, it seems the intent is to basically make the Fed side have all the features the KDF has while changing little or nothing on the KDF side, making them basically an inferior clone with little features and a red interface.
Hence for example my thread on the KDF scoutship in the shipyard forums.
While I'd like a ship with "blue slots" so to speak, I'd like it to resemble a typical Fed Science ship as little as possible while keeping both sides equally competitive and balanced.
I think it's the only way to have both factions in warlike coexistence in the game...and in peaceful coexistence in the forums.
Just seemed like the poster was whining with "moral outrage", like you accuse us KDF of doing.
*Chuckles*
Not moral outrage. Call it voicing concern in a way to be read.
Every time it comes up, the SMALL subgroup of the faction does the same thing. Reminds me of the the line from a movie. Take everything you can, give nothing back.
Whining. Hmmm. That word gets used a lot. Like Unique gets used a lot, or everyone. Alot of the time they do not fit. Not every fed thinks they deserve a Klingon ship. Not every Klingon are currently saying they deserve the 180 torpedo for example. Not everyone whines either. But those words get used.
A group cannot expect much if all they do is say, this should be ours now, but everything we have stays unique to us. It just won't happen. No matter how SMALL the subgroup it winds up being seen as the whole group or faction. I know it won't stop but these sorts of things should. Save it for real uniqueness like the ship hulls. That is when lines should be drown, not this sort of thing.
Yeap another Troll it seems that has joined the ranks. Don't like what they see in here? Then avoid the section. It's a no brainer. It keeps the peace for all of us.
We won't bother you if you leave us alone.
Not a troll, not unless you go extreme on the description in trolling and you. We all post to get a point across. So we are all Trolls.
I am like others expressing some points. Like how Some are drawing a line that shouldn't be there. Everything in one faction MUST be in both. Everything in another MUST be unique to theirs. I get it that the Klingons got the shaft from day one. So far little has changed. This sort of thing doesn't get many people to be interested in walking over and joining in asking for a change.
It's been bounced around to make Season whatever a Klingon only time for finally finishing up the faction. At the expense of anything new for the Feds, or if ever done another faction. How does anyone expect players who are in that or those factions to go for it? One small way is these consoles exchanges, and remember that every time both sides get something new. It's small, but it's something. Which is all the other faction or factions would have to look forward to while this mythical Klingon age season is done. (I won't hold my breath waiting as it stands now)
Either give leech console or dont give it just do something NOW!
I wanna know so i dont waste anymore time and real money on my already wasted KDF toon.
If you share leech console with FED then there is no reason at all for me to stick with KDF anymore.
I can do the same build as my KDF only that FED ships will be having more hull and shields than KDF ones.
Yeah its unfair for the KDF but who cares it seems only a few of us do.
So i will just leave KDF and all the money i spented on KDF side to rot.
And i invest time and maybe a few money on fed side since thats the side you seem to strongly favour and develop all the new stuff for.....
I require an official answer
I demand it since i am a good and loyal customer give me the answer and i wont quit the game just KDF side and i will just play FED only since thats the way you like it i will follow but dont expect me to be happy with ur decisions i will just adjust so i keep on having fun espcially with MACO+leech it will be very very funny to wiping out KDF fleets alone.
TY IN ADVANCE DONT FORGET TO ANSWER MY QUESTION PLZ!!!!
You are unlikely to get your answer in here.
It will likely come fron Tribble.
You are making demands for it and for having things your way. Both are turn offs.
The leach going to feds will not change Klingons. Really not sure on Feds either.
If you have stuck with the Klingons for so long why would you cut for one thing?
Would that not make the faction ever weaker(less players)? Shouldn't you instead be trying to get more people to at least make and sometimes play a Klingon?
Since they argue that the faction is such a small percent of the game?
I have a Science Capt. I want those skills to be balanced and fixed. Every time I read a response from Cryptic after the break another skill it is we'll get back and fix it, at some point. When we have the time. Should I delete that toon out of disgust?
we can read posts of "KDF posters wax on philosophic about how the developers have taken everything from the KDF" as Jermbot stated or we can read posts where some fedfans put on Airs and tell us our place and how we need to accept it becuase we do not matter as much as they do in STO
Whats funny is the fed On Airs response is just as often as ranty, insulting and condescending as the KDF philosophic tirades, and yet nobody ever seems to say anything. If they do I would imagine they'll be called Whiny.
How about this instead.
Instead of thinking Faction first and player second, Player first, Faction second.
The Klingons are listed as eighteen percent. Cryptic says that the lack of content is due to those numbers. I agree with the people who say it's reverse.
This SMALL subgroup of Klingon who demand from feds, say nothing is unique, then claim everything is unique on their faction is a detraction. They I believe they think only of their faction. They will only make it look like the whole faction is this way. To hope to get anything done the faction needs a majority. I do not know if even then it will work. But if every time a person logs into the game there is a lone player going on about how this or that is unique, you can't have it, then demands to be given something from another side then the whole faction gets tuned out.
I do not speak as Fed or Klingon, always(well almost always)as a player. I do not know if you directed your comments on rants and Airs(rant will always cover me though) I have no airs about me. I am a player and I want the game as a whole to go on. To be as fun as possible for all. The Klingon place is to me the same as the Feds, or Romulans or any other possible faction people will think of. A place it is not now and I fear it will never be.
I rarely post about things like fair console trades or such, I think they should be by the way. I just see they mostly break down to things like it's ours, it's unique to us(sometimes from the Klingon side, sometimes on both). I thing it's that Klingon have so little, so some are afraid to share anything at all. Blame it on the numbers, blame it on Cryptic. I really do just think that the almost always break down to this same tired argument is turning off the majority and that needs to change. So for a change I'm going to push my two cents.
It will likely come fron Tribble.
You are making demands for it and for having things your way. Both are turn offs.
The leach going to feds will not change Klingons. Really not sure on Feds either.
If you have stuck with the Klingons for so long why would you cut for one thing?
Would that not make the faction ever weaker(less players)? Shouldn't you instead be trying to get more people to at least make and sometimes play a Klingon?
Since they argue that the faction is such a small percent of the game?
I have a Science Capt. I want those skills to be balanced and fixed. Every time I read a response from Cryptic after the break another skill it is we'll get back and fix it, at some point. When we have the time. Should I delete that toon out of disgust?
YOU SHALL NOT!!!
get the leech console :P
Instead, since you talked about trading consoles between factions you can take bio neutral warhead and we can have AMS or something equally useful.
This way impact wont be so big to game balance.
Cause like i said 1 million times MACO shields+plasma leech+efficiant captain boffs+passive traits efficient and warpcore + skills on efficient and warpcore and seperate powers can result into max power all over across the board literally!!!
You will see me doing it with my FED toon once it goes live and destroy any klingon remnants i encounter EASILY!
Why to buff federation even more when its already powerful enough if not more powerful to compensate KDF both in pve and pvp?
Why not to keep KDF a minimal faction but worth playing?
They got unique weapons from quests that got 10% change to dmg shields
They got better escorts both in turn rates and firepower and hull and shields
They got more versatile ships with more universal boffs
They got better sci ships while we got only a few
They got fleet heavy escort carrier(best ship in the game) and its constant free tractor pets
They got better cloths than us and more things to play with.
Why on the seven kingdoms they should get on top of all those our last worthy UNIQUE console and destroy pvp balance and leave KDF faction just a silly skin that lacks MACO shields and stats on the ships????
If the answer is money then your wrong simply because ppl will buy the lockboxes either you put inside bio neutral warhead or plasma leech and most ppl will buy them for the ships and not the consoles since those console will be sold cheap enough on exchange whiles ships wont be cheap so....
You will get a lot of more money if you keep KDF alive and give ppl a good REASON to play it.
Plasma leech is a good reason to play KDF and if you leave it on vandal destroyer it will bring you more money cause players will play KDF just for leech so he will buy at least vandal destroyer and a couple of more ships and stuff to be good.
If you share this then no1 will be rolling new KDF toons and no1 will invest on buying KDF stuff anymore.
I personally i might quit the game or just abandon KDF meaning no more money for KDF stuff and play FED with minimal real money cost like most f2p's noobs do.
You see we might be only 20% of total pop but all this 20% i bet it paid lots of money cause we rly liked KDF stuff and lore.
Want me to link how much i paid ONLY on KDF side?
And now you want to bring balance upside down and you expect me to pay all those money to fed side as well?
NO WAY and even if some klingons do they are only 20%vs80%
So you have to keep a reason for the 80% to want to be a part of that small 20%
Since you all here are so much of maths talkers here some simple maths.
It benefits the company NOT to share the leech console but anything else and it benefits game balance and our future co-existance when it comes to the 2 factions.
Without leech console KDF will shrink even more PVP ques will be a mess tons of feds dudes waiting in the line and no KDF from the otherside to give them an easy match!!!
Dont say i didnt warn you.
This sharing thingy is not rly good ,especially the leech console we got and the maco shields they got those two are like pylons each side MUST have unique in order to maintain balance and survivability of both factions.
I agree on cannons used sub-targeting would be cool ,but because of their burst damage potential cannons are bad for subsystems targeting, (especially shields or when coupled with a drain build tossing polarons), and could get OP really fast.
Please forgive my analogy.
It's not just a matter sharing. The more alike the factions are the more vanilla the game. Not that vanilla is a bad flavor but when I buy ice cream I seldom buy just vanilla. Mmmm Ben and Jerry's Rainforest Crunch... Vanilla ice cream with caramel swirl and toffee covered brazil nuts. *drools*
See novel game mechanics are like that. They are what make you pick Rainforest Crunch over Strawberry Cheesecake, or vice versa. Both use vanilla as the base flavor but the features are the draw. If both sides are identical then all you really have is the same flavor of vanilla in a different container with different snazzy graphics wrapped around that container.
The more Feds get KDF mechanics, and vice versa, the more vanilla the game becomes. Then why would you try the other side? Just so you can see the other wrapper? You already played the game.
Sorry for not agreeing, thanks but it isn't needed.
Ok, my thoughts back.
Cryptic decided on what would go where. Other then ship hulls. Ship hulls are one of the things that make a faction unique. Now these consoles, they are not all things that are clear cut unique. If I remember the jumper console description(the one Feds just got for the point defense) It states it's rapid warping a ship to behind a enemy, making it appear it teleported. That sounds like the Picard maneuver to me. So it could be argued that feds would have that. And so on with several different consoles on both factions. Because of whatever reason one cares to choose there will be similar tech for any Faction. I am not saying everything should be shared. My point was that a constant, no it's unique on every thing is detracting from the game.
If it were to be pushed even more to the extreme then only feds would get phasers and Klingon disruptors. So either no point defense for Klingon or it becomes Disruptor defense.
Sorry for not agreeing, thanks but it isn't needed.
Ok, my thoughts back.
Cryptic decided on what would go where. Other then ship hulls. Ship hulls are one of the things that make a faction unique. Now these consoles, they are not all things that are clear cut unique. If I remember the jumper console description(the one Feds just got for the point defense) It states it's rapid warping a ship to behind a enemy, making it appear it teleported. That sounds like the Picard maneuver to me. So it could be argued that feds would have that. And so on with several different consoles on both factions. Because of whatever reason one cares to choose there will be similar tech for any Faction. I am not saying everything should be shared. My point was that a constant, no it's unique on every thing is detracting from the game.
If it were to be pushed even more to the extreme then only feds would get phasers and Klingon disruptors. So either no point defense for Klingon or it becomes Disruptor defense.
Thank you for your thoughtful response.
Here have some plain old vanilla ice cream. Seems to be your favorite flavor.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
Here have some plain old vanilla ice cream. Seems to be your favorite flavor.
Will the Feds and Klingons still have the same ships?
Answer yes.
Will they have new abilities to try in them?
Answer yes.
I never said every item should be traded.
Others have said however things like unique is one sided. Theirs. Demanded everything they do not have. Everything. I simply say if that is the path Cryptic is choosing to go then do it on an equal basis. I waited a while before even saying anything and aimed it to that general theme, not just a leach which frankly could have been Breen design.
In playing a Klingon I have not flown a ship that felt the same as my old Fed Recon Science. I don't think my old Defiant is like a raptor or BoP. And not because of what type or if it had a cloak. Now the two flagships that came out for 2nd anniversary. That felt like the difference between cannons and beams, or brick or shaped brick. The boff layout, the ship design, yes, even the look are flavor. Not what color a beam or cannon is. Not my point defense fires a phaser and yours a photon.
If someone wants to say a console gives too big an advantage to a faction fine. If someone wants to say some thing are meant for only some factions, again fine. But, when it becomes every time something is even hinted at it becomes a THIS IS OURS ALONE then it is too much. Especally if the same person says I DEMAND X from them. That is the sprt of posts I am finally responding to in these forums. It goes too far and detracts from the rest.
Will the Feds and Klingons still have the same ships?
Answer yes.
Will they have new abilities to try in them?
Answer yes.
I never said every item should be traded.
Others have said however things like unique is one sided. Theirs. Demanded everything they do not have. Everything. I simply say if that is the path Cryptic is choosing to go then do it on an equal basis. I waited a while before even saying anything and aimed it to that general theme, not just a leach which frankly could have been Breen design.
In playing a Klingon I have not flown a ship that felt the same as my old Fed Recon Science. I don't think my old Defiant is like a raptor or BoP. And not because of what type or if it had a cloak. Now the two flagships that came out for 2nd anniversary. That felt like the difference between cannons and beams, or brick or shaped brick. The boff layout, the ship design, yes, even the look are flavor. Not what color a beam or cannon is. Not my point defense fires a phaser and yours a photon.
If someone wants to say a console gives too big an advantage to a faction fine. If someone wants to say some thing are meant for only some factions, again fine. But, when it becomes every time something is even hinted at it becomes a THIS IS OURS ALONE then it is too much. Especally if the same person says I DEMAND X from them. That is the sprt of posts I am finally responding to in these forums. It goes too far and detracts from the rest.
You have stated your opinion and I respect it. I have stated mine. They are not in agreement and I do not see a point where the other will concede.
Now this constant thing of KDF calling for Fed items, well I do not agree. Feds do it more. If by no other reason than having a bigger population feds do it more. That could be a major reason why KDF players are not receptive to the Devs giving away more things that make the KDF different beyond ship skins, costumes, maps and eight missions.
Feds wanted universal console slots. Feds now have more ships than the KDF with uni-console slots.
Feds wanted cloaking. Feds got an escort, a cruiser with standard cloaks and the Rhode Island with a unique decoy console that cloaks them for a few moments to get away from the decoy.
I could go on but then again I made a list earlier in this thread when I first posted.
I could, yet again, reiterate my point that diversity through unique faction game mechanics is a good thing that can drive PvP meta gaming through a mechanic called perfect imbalance but I said it already so here is a different point...
There is not a whole lot left for the Feds to claim from the KDF so when they want KDF consoles that, will inevitably end up on the exchange for 500,000 ECs, (that I effectively spent an average of ten dollars to get), well I have a hard time seeing it as fair. Maybe fair for you who bought a Sub-space Jump console for your Fed but not so fair in my eyes.
Oh and of course you will not find a ship in the KDF that flys just like your Fed Recon, KDF is sci light all we have for true science vessels is a handful of Gorn ships. Though if you mix the right parts together for your recon you will have an idea of just how far off the pivot point for the raptor really is... Yeah I have flown all the Gorn sci ships and the vast majority of the Fed sci ships too, (can't speak for the Vulcan as I did not buy it). The recon is my fave Feddie sci-boat.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
"Targeting sub systems. Feds do it all the time. When a Klingon was ordered to target engines, he blew up the ship. A lucky shot. I do not recall them ever extending shields. When did one ever use a tricorder? So I guess they shouldn't have any of those as they are FED staples."
And piwright42's response to it.
Was that what you meant?
No, I was looking at
That's right up there with Demanding a True science vessel, just with more hull points, 4 forward and aft weapons, and not limited to only beam weapons. Want Six Universal Commander stations while you're at it? Shesh.
in the same post. But having reread I see where I made my mistake.
Just seemed like the poster was whining with "moral outrage", like you accuse us KDF of doing.
Ah, see that's not how I read his post. Perhaps because I share some of his views regarding certain KDF posters tendency to complain about anything and everything, but I read his post as being a sarcastic denunciation of people's tendencies towards justifying very selfish and short sighted positions.
Why do I call the "this will be the death blow of the KDF!" position selfish and short sighted? For one, nobody has bothered to try to explain any sort of long term ramifications. The closest thing we've gotten to date is one person saying he'd stop playing on the KDF and just start playing on the Federation... one person. He may represent more than one person, or he may realize that a handful of leech consoles ending up on the Federation side for either more money or a TRIBBLE ton of EC's for a temporary period of time was not the death blow to the KDF we all expected.
Yeap another Troll it seems that has joined the ranks. Don't like what they see in here? Then avoid the section. It's a no brainer. It keeps the peace for all of us.
We won't bother you if you leave us alone.
By "us" do you mean Klingons? Because I play on the KDF. Or by "us" do you just mean Klingons who agree with you? Because, unfortunately, you will bother me even if I leave you alone. You see, it's been shown time and time again that the developers DO come to these forums and DO take feedback here seriously, and when the feedback they receive is the unreasonable ******** of overly entitled players demanding that Cryptic not make any more money on the consoles they designed, it lessens their tendency to take these forums seriously as a representation of the player base.
Because lets not kid ourselves people. Anyone claiming that this will "kill" the KDF is either panicking himself or attempting to start a panic out of sheer stupidity. Anyone ******** about this killing the KDF on a large number of unrelated threads should be getting called out as a "troll" but I'll let that idiot double standard pass and address the argument itself. They could release the Plasmonic Leech Console to the Federation today, for free, and they could let it stack with the MACO shields, and you'd only ever see 5 percent of the Federation population using both of them and the only folks these Feds would bother would be other Feds in FvF PVP and some of the Klingons in Kerrat, not even all of them.
Now, they won't release it to the Federation today for free, they'll release it to the Federation later, as part of a lock box program that will make them quite a bit of money and fuel future development. I'm okay with that because it will make them rare enough to still give the KDF an offensive edge in consoles in most instances of Kerrat. An edge that, currently, Federation players need to grind up MACO gear to match.
You have stated your opinion and I respect it. I have stated mine. They are not in agreement and I do not see a point where the other will concede.
Now this constant thing of KDF calling for Fed items, well I do not agree. Feds do it more. If by no other reason than having a bigger population feds do it more. That could be a major reason why KDF players are not receptive to the Devs giving away more things that make the KDF different beyond ship skins, costumes, maps and eight missions.
Feds wanted universal console slots. Feds now have more ships than the KDF with uni-console slots.
Feds wanted cloaking. Feds got an escort, a cruiser with standard cloaks and the Rhode Island with a unique decoy console that cloaks them for a few moments to get away from the decoy.
I could go on but then again I made a list earlier in this thread when I first posted.
I could, yet again, reiterate my point that diversity through unique faction game mechanics is a good thing that can drive PvP meta gaming through a mechanic called perfect imbalance but I said it already so here is a different point...
There is not a whole lot left for the Feds to claim from the KDF so when they want KDF consoles that, will inevitably end up on the exchange for 500,000 ECs, (that I effectively spent an average of ten dollars to get), well I have a hard time seeing it as fair. Maybe fair for you who bought a Sub-space Jump console for your Fed but not so fair in my eyes.
Oh and of course you will not find a ship in the KDF that flys just like your Fed Recon, KDF is sci light all we have for true science vessels is a handful of Gorn ships. Though if you mix the right parts together for your recon you will have an idea of just how far off the pivot point for the raptor really is... Yeah I have flown all the Gorn sci ships and the vast majority of the Fed sci ships too, (can't speak for the Vulcan as I did not buy it). The recon is my fave Feddie sci-boat.
Went through all the trouble of responding and it didn't save.....
I think that they are more then they aren't. You draw a line further then I do. You are thinking mainly PVP while I was thinking mainly PVE because I just see no reason for doing PVP right now. When challenged we get the wrong map, or something happens like a server disconnect. If a group someone decides to ruin it like the last STF I did. Not from lack of experience, but intending to ruin it for the others because they are angry or frustrated. Who knows. I'll do something different if I want to try any PVP.
I'm going out of order by the way.
With my Recon Science. I have used some other Science ships and they didn't feel right to me. So it isn't that. or just that the only Sci ship for the Klingon faction I've tried was also a brick with fighters. It was it didn't feel right for me. I like the starter BoP also. There are other ships I've used I do not like as much in the faction. It's The ship, it's the general setup of those ships that get me in them. I personally want to build around a ship with what I have available to me, not around a console. (which isn't much to do with my or your post) And not why I've said a word in here.
Cloaking devices. There are some who just want the right cloak on their Defiant or Enterprise refit(whatever). As they see it. Others want all cloaks and those two get muddles. I've also tried to avoid that before now.
My experience in game was more kilngons were being vocal or demanding in game. My experience was having other klingons tell mine how it SHOULD be. Like my example of a Klingon dedicated Science ship. While some want a real science ship I've run into a lot who want a hybrid Battleship/Science ship with the best from both and nothing negative. Like how some Feds seem to want a flying I win Button.
Ah, see that's not how I read his post. Perhaps because I share some of his views regarding certain KDF posters tendency to complain about anything and everything, but I read his post as being a sarcastic denunciation of people's tendencies towards justifying very selfish and short sighted positions.
Why do I call the "this will be the death blow of the KDF!" position selfish and short sighted? For one, nobody has bothered to try to explain any sort of long term ramifications. The closest thing we've gotten to date is one person saying he'd stop playing on the KDF and just start playing on the Federation... one person. He may represent more than one person, or he may realize that a handful of leech consoles ending up on the Federation side for either more money or a TRIBBLE ton of EC's for a temporary period of time was not the death blow to the KDF we all expected.
By "us" do you mean Klingons? Because I play on the KDF. Or by "us" do you just mean Klingons who agree with you? Because, unfortunately, you will bother me even if I leave you alone. You see, it's been shown time and time again that the developers DO come to these forums and DO take feedback here seriously, and when the feedback they receive is the unreasonable ******** of overly entitled players demanding that Cryptic not make any more money on the consoles they designed, it lessens their tendency to take these forums seriously as a representation of the player base.
Because lets not kid ourselves people. Anyone claiming that this will "kill" the KDF is either panicking himself or attempting to start a panic out of sheer stupidity. Anyone ******** about this killing the KDF on a large number of unrelated threads should be getting called out as a "troll" but I'll let that idiot double standard pass and address the argument itself. They could release the Plasmonic Leech Console to the Federation today, for free, and they could let it stack with the MACO shields, and you'd only ever see 5 percent of the Federation population using both of them and the only folks these Feds would bother would be other Feds in FvF PVP and some of the Klingons in Kerrat, not even all of them.
Now, they won't release it to the Federation today for free, they'll release it to the Federation later, as part of a lock box program that will make them quite a bit of money and fuel future development. I'm okay with that because it will make them rare enough to still give the KDF an offensive edge in consoles in most instances of Kerrat. An edge that, currently, Federation players need to grind up MACO gear to match.
I'm just going to jump in with a couple of things.
This a Klingon thread in a Klingon forum so it is mainly about SOME post by SOME Klingons. Still I fell into a trap I dislike. I should not have used the Klingon, posters or players instead.
I am being insanely sarcastic, among other things. Because over and over I hear that one side or the other wants something, Demands something, without any thought about the cost. Perhaps no concern about a cost. If this had been a fed thread demanding a high shield modifier for all escorts, A LTC Boff on a refit of a tier 2 science ship when the recon science only has a LT, well then it might be more Fed oriented after the other day.
You use the word selfish, not arguing it but I think it's more scared. Scared that they will loose the faction. To me however, the hard line response in and out of the game will make things worse. For everyone. Because part of the player base stops listening. The faction needs seventy five percent of the player base on it's side.
I could point blame at Cryptic. They made the war. They didn't select a few consoles for each faction and make the rest neutral. They left the Klingon faction in the state it is now. I could. I'm not trying to though because then they might be turned off from listening. Like some players are from all the arguing. I had over 20 players on ignore till the last time I played for arguing about these same things. I removed them all before I was disconnected.
I do however blame the fact I haven't been able to log back in in part for going on and on in here......
Ah, see that's not how I read his post. Perhaps because I share some of his views regarding certain KDF posters tendency to complain about anything and everything, but I read his post as being a sarcastic denunciation of people's tendencies towards justifying very selfish and short sighted positions.
Why do I call the "this will be the death blow of the KDF!" position selfish and short sighted? For one, nobody has bothered to try to explain any sort of long term ramifications. The closest thing we've gotten to date is one person saying he'd stop playing on the KDF and just start playing on the Federation... one person. He may represent more than one person, or he may realize that a handful of leech consoles ending up on the Federation side for either more money or a TRIBBLE ton of EC's for a temporary period of time was not the death blow to the KDF we all expected.
By "us" do you mean Klingons? Because I play on the KDF. Or by "us" do you just mean Klingons who agree with you? Because, unfortunately, you will bother me even if I leave you alone. You see, it's been shown time and time again that the developers DO come to these forums and DO take feedback here seriously, and when the feedback they receive is the unreasonable ******** of overly entitled players demanding that Cryptic not make any more money on the consoles they designed, it lessens their tendency to take these forums seriously as a representation of the player base.
Because lets not kid ourselves people. Anyone claiming that this will "kill" the KDF is either panicking himself or attempting to start a panic out of sheer stupidity. Anyone ******** about this killing the KDF on a large number of unrelated threads should be getting called out as a "troll" but I'll let that idiot double standard pass and address the argument itself. They could release the Plasmonic Leech Console to the Federation today, for free, and they could let it stack with the MACO shields, and you'd only ever see 5 percent of the Federation population using both of them and the only folks these Feds would bother would be other Feds in FvF PVP and some of the Klingons in Kerrat, not even all of them.
Now, they won't release it to the Federation today for free, they'll release it to the Federation later, as part of a lock box program that will make them quite a bit of money and fuel future development. I'm okay with that because it will make them rare enough to still give the KDF an offensive edge in consoles in most instances of Kerrat. An edge that, currently, Federation players need to grind up MACO gear to match.
It kills KDF and we all know pretty much, dont let this troll to fool urselfs.
Its a very important console feds got their own important stuff and they are more than ours.
You say feds need to grind up MACO gear to match?
We dont have to grind up KHG gear to match?
We bought the console with RL and you wants feds to get it off the exchange ?
It already killed me as KDF i will be playing FED with minimal money also.
No more generous money offers from me to KDF side ever again.
You see how it kills KDF now?
Experienced veteran elder KDF pilots cant stand this fraud when they will be owning us with full powers all over across the board while we paid RL money and they paid also RL money but took our console for free.... and now we cant stand a chance against all those ships that have more ''stats'' than our ships.
While some want a real science ship I've run into a lot who want a hybrid Battleship/Science ship with the best from both and nothing negative. Like how some Feds seem to want a flying I win Button.
I can respect that you would come from a PvE angle. I was pure PvE once and seldom did PvP in other games before STO. I am sorry to hear that griefers ruined your experience.
I will ken to the notion that there is an advantage to both sides not having unique mechanics. It becomes much easier to balance the game itself. The caveat is that at the same time you ruin a piece of the meta game. The part where you try to figure out which is the best paper to beat the best rock or scissor. When you PvP more this strategic element of the meta game becomes it's own kinda fun and even leads folk like me to spend real life money to get respecs, weapons and gear to test these nascent notions.
As a rule meta builds are the best way to get folks to holler "Hax" in zone chat. And yes sometimes we do build around a console that enhances a captain ability, BO skill or even one that drains an opponent faster as an opponent without subsystems power can not run, can not turn, can not hit, nor can they defend. Given the amount of cross healing and the viability of both hull and shield heals, drain builds can go a long way to break a stale mate in the battle space. Out of balance and they simply scare new and old PvPers out of the queues.
Given that many KDF players also PvP the notion that the Feds with a MACO shield, (which is very common in PvP), using Plasmodic Leach for an even bigger boost will scare a few out of the queues. Even if it is only a couple of days before a restructure of how Plasmodic Leach works and blocking it from over enhancing the MACO effect that is bad for PvP.
Then again all that is the reason I do not run the Plasmodic Leach on my KDF builds even though I own it. Did I just admit it is a touch on the OP side? Yup. Still there are those who continue to run the Bug despite admitting that it is hands down the absolute best escort in the game. Some will take any edge they can get.
But to write like that is not being as myopic and emotional as I am supposed to be according to another poster in this thread.
I would say no to a KDF super science cruiser with zero drawbacks just as quick as I said no to Feds getting Plasmodic Leach. As I said before, for me, even in PvP there is something to getting the job done on your own merits. That and such a monster in the queues could hurt the numbers that do brave PvP. One of the reasons I have taught PvP in the past was because I want a good challenge, I want them to have fun too, and I only want them to call hax as a backhanded compliment.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
It kills KDF and we all know pretty much, dont let this troll to fool urselfs.
Its a very important console feds got their own important stuff and they are more than ours.
You say feds need to grind up MACO gear to match?
We dont have to grind up KHG gear to match?
We bought the console with RL and you wants feds to get it off the exchange ?
It already killed me as KDF i will be playing FED with minimal money also.
No more generous money offers from me to KDF side ever again.
You see how it kills KDF now?
Experienced veteran elder KDF pilots cant stand this fraud when they will be owning us with full powers all over across the board while we paid RL money and they paid also RL money but took our console for free.... and now we cant stand a chance against all those ships that have more ''stats'' than our ships.
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Panic! EVERY ONE PANIC! THIS IS THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT!
There, now that I've convinced you that I'm one of you, I can get close enough to smack you upside the head with some sense.
For one, if they make the Maco shield and the Leech console mutually exclusive buffs, then this is no longer a game balance issue. Defensive oriented players will choose the shield, offensive oriented players will choose the console and a different, less effective shield. You see how simple that was?
Now, it hasn't even happened yet but it's already killed you as a player? If you'll forgive me for saying so, you seem to make hasty decisions on very little information and so I'm not likely to take your decision seriously. Also, given the extreme nature of your reaction, I'd assume this is the first time you've seen the KDF lose exclusive access to something, so I can't imagine that you actually speak for particularly "experienced" or "veteran" KDF players.
I'm just going to jump in with a couple of things.
This a Klingon thread in a Klingon forum so it is mainly about SOME post by SOME Klingons. Still I fell into a trap I dislike. I should not have used the Klingon, posters or players instead.
I am being insanely sarcastic, among other things. Because over and over I hear that one side or the other wants something, Demands something, without any thought about the cost. Perhaps no concern about a cost. If this had been a fed thread demanding a high shield modifier for all escorts, A LTC Boff on a refit of a tier 2 science ship when the recon science only has a LT, well then it might be more Fed oriented after the other day.
You use the word selfish, not arguing it but I think it's more scared. Scared that they will loose the faction. To me however, the hard line response in and out of the game will make things worse. For everyone. Because part of the player base stops listening. The faction needs seventy five percent of the player base on it's side.
I could point blame at Cryptic. They made the war. They didn't select a few consoles for each faction and make the rest neutral. They left the Klingon faction in the state it is now. I could. I'm not trying to though because then they might be turned off from listening. Like some players are from all the arguing. I had over 20 players on ignore till the last time I played for arguing about these same things. I removed them all before I was disconnected.
I do however blame the fact I haven't been able to log back in in part for going on and on in here......
You're clearly a far more patient and empathic man than I. I'm afraid I come from a background where idiotic rhetoric needs to be challenged for fear that it will turn into accepted policy and so I see a thread like this, wrong on so many levels, and I challenge it in an attempt to do what good I can for this game that I love.
But as for the reasons why, Cryptic had to bundle the ships and the consoles. With the majority of their player base being at end game the individual consoles made those ships a viable purchase for the majority of their current players. I do agree they should just come out and repeat what they said when they started releasing +1 ships way back when, these consoles were always intended to be available to both factions.
You're clearly a far more patient and empathic man than I. I'm afraid I come from a background where idiotic rhetoric needs to be challenged for fear that it will turn into accepted policy and so I see a thread like this, wrong on so many levels, and I challenge it in an attempt to do what good I can for this game that I love.
But as for the reasons why, Cryptic had to bundle the ships and the consoles. With the majority of their player base being at end game the individual consoles made those ships a viable purchase for the majority of their current players. I do agree they should just come out and repeat what they said when they started releasing +1 ships way back when, these consoles were always intended to be available to both factions.
Yes but they are enjoying a respectful conversation with those who do not share kilemorgan's stated views. The rewards for patience and empathy are positive.
Then again caustic and judgemental tend to produce what you have experienced, polarized negativity. You are a self fulling prophecy in that regard.
What? I did not call you a whiner despite your complaints about everyone else being a whiner, or emotional, or ineffective or short sighted or... See labels you use that are caustic and polarizing.
Shame really. I often thought of you as intelligent and that it would be nice to actually talk to you but then again you refuse to talk to me because I'm emotional, ineffective, irrational...
*yawns*
You see where this is going.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
Comments
Just seemed like the poster was whining with "moral outrage", like you accuse us KDF of doing.
R.I.P
Yeap another Troll it seems that has joined the ranks. Don't like what they see in here? Then avoid the section. It's a no brainer. It keeps the peace for all of us.
We won't bother you if you leave us alone.
I'm sorry, but I'm not entirely sure, but I think we're not on the same topic ATM.
I was referring to this post:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=5599321&postcount=115
particularly the bogus about
"Targeting sub systems. Feds do it all the time. When a Klingon was ordered to target engines, he blew up the ship. A lucky shot. I do not recall them ever extending shields. When did one ever use a tricorder? So I guess they shouldn't have any of those as they are FED staples."
And piwright42's response to it.
Was that what you meant?
Let me fix this cause you did it wrong.
I dont rly understand ur meaning here.
First of all it never was giving +20 power as you say.
It was +17 power only if fully speced into flow caps otherwise it was +8
Now i recall about a month ago it was nerfed from +8/+6
Meaning that max effect will be +12 if fully speced into flow caps
You dont seem to understand for unknown reasons that if feds get leech console no matter if its +8 or +6 and stack it with +10 from maco shields they will be running full powers all over across the board and this is not good for the game balance.
If you dont understand this simple thing then it must mean you desire this OP effect in FED side.
This is not ok even for FED game balance will collapse KDF will vanish with time and game will be play FED only cause thats what we developed only cause we are slackers that want fast easy money
I wanna know so i dont waste anymore time and real money on my already wasted KDF toon.
If you share leech console with FED then there is no reason at all for me to stick with KDF anymore.
I can do the same build as my KDF only that FED ships will be having more hull and shields than KDF ones.
Yeah its unfair for the KDF but who cares it seems only a few of us do.
So i will just leave KDF and all the money i spented on KDF side to rot.
And i invest time and maybe a few money on fed side since thats the side you seem to strongly favour and develop all the new stuff for.....
I require an official answer
I demand it since i am a good and loyal customer give me the answer and i wont quit the game just KDF side and i will just play FED only since thats the way you like it i will follow but dont expect me to be happy with ur decisions i will just adjust so i keep on having fun espcially with MACO+leech it will be very very funny to wiping out KDF fleets alone.
TY IN ADVANCE DONT FORGET TO ANSWER MY QUESTION PLZ!!!!
LOL- at least it offers choices.
we can read posts of "KDF posters wax on philosophic about how the developers have taken everything from the KDF" as Jermbot stated or we can read posts where some fedfans put on Airs and tell us our place and how we need to accept it becuase we do not matter as much as they do in STO
Whats funny is the fed On Airs response is just as often as ranty, insulting and condescending as the KDF philosophic tirades, and yet nobody ever seems to say anything. If they do I would imagine they'll be called Whiny.
R.I.P
Actually, my point on that is that several times in game I've heard the desire for a Klingon true science ship (which I would agree with) but when my Klingon started to discuss it with them and mentioned the differences like only 6 weapons max, no cannons etc. At every point they said how that did not fit with Klingon style or building and would have to be changed. By the end it was clear that they only wanted a hybrid Battlecruiser/Science that had alle the positives and none of the negatives. How these same SMALL part of the Klingon players really just want everything for them and their way. And how tiring it gets to hear it.
Now if this was a Fed discussion on why they should have their own Bird of Prey I would be in it(if I saw it) mentioning that the model was something I don't think Fed players should fly around in, and there are already
Escorts.
EDIT:
Not disgusted, Tired of. Tired of it becoming a more and more us agains them. We are all players, and frankly we all have to start as feds. There are more Fed then Klingon players. I do not know if that would change with a FULL and COMPLETE faction. I would really love to find out though. Point being I think there are other players like me in the game, based on reactions to complaints that come up all the time. They tire of some of it and are slowly caring less and less about it being fixed. Change the feelings and get more on board for the game as a whole and not a single faction or their own toons. Because it's easy to just think, a full Klingon faction does not affect me any more then the way it sits now. The Feds gain nothing. Or, the possible Romulan faction would not gain from it. Problem is that's just narrow minded. It does and will. A new faction could be treated just as badly as the Klingons are. Less then fifty percent of players or not, a poorly treated faction will affect the Feds also.
Do not remember seeing the first 2. As for the third I remember the gunner being told to disable the engines, failing, then being killed. The next ship to show up was the damaged and automated enterprise. I do not intentionally ignore facts. I either did not see that or remember it differently.
I also recall the Defiant using cannons to target sub systems. An argument for making target subsystems useable for more then just beams I suppose.
Point is anyone can try to make anything their faction only, use whatever argument for it they can think of. It still just continues to make things a us vs them situation that SOME are not only going with but dragging way to far.
Seeing others have addressed the points I was gonna kick about I'll move on to the some of us are selfish thing.
Yes we would like more "balls," (snickers), to play with. At lest we want our own balls and not the Feds. A thing I have noticed among KDF players is while they say something the Feds have would be nice they seldom ask for it. One might say this is evidence that many KDF players would like to see a degree of unique game play preserved between the factions.
It is not selfish to protect novel game mechanics that could encourage others to try the other faction or reinforce the feel of unique faction play, strategies and tactics.
The only way I expect the annoying lockboxes to carry KDF only consoles is if the Feds also get a novel consoles, that are every bit as cool, of their own when they open that lockbox.
As for the super science cruiser, Nebula. Well you can only mount 6 weapons on it and yes it can mount cannons, well only single cannons and turrets but those are both cannons. Still has far more hull than any other T5 science vessel and a cruiser's turn rate to boot, (which is not a good thing). I think the turn rate limiting the ability to get SNB on a target to throw off opposition team healing is what keeps it out of a lot of PvP play.
Personally I do not want an OP ship and think I am pretty safe to hazard that most of the KDF fans do not want OP ships either. There is a certain satisfaction that comes with getting the job done on your own merits after all. I sense you could agree with that.
Why have console trades at all? To me few things scream money grab more than console swaps. They have a bigger crew than during beta yet they throw console swaps at us as if it is content. They should have more imagination running amok as they have a larger brain trust. I would like to see some cool new ideas in the way of in game gimmicks and console swaps fail to sell that.
As for the small group of us, many Fed only players have come to agree that somethings KDF should stay KDF and the KDF should be finished. Some of them have already voiced that opinion here in this thread. One of The.Grand.Nagus's threads was a pole that asked what we as players would like to see developed next, highest percentage by a long shot was "Finish the KDF." I can't imagine that only KDF fans participated in that pole. The reality is, as The.Grand.Nagus' pole suggests, a silent majority would like to see the KDF move forward, even if it is only to hasten the addition of Romulans to the game as a playable faction.
That larger work force seems to be bent on getting the Feds happy, which I have little problem with but I would like to know that the KDF will get more resources in the future as they have more resources now. they should be able to continue to grow the Feds and start to follow through on some of those age old KDF promises and I hope they do get around to this sometime in the future.
I have said often in the early days that understanding breeds patience. It would be nice to understand if and when the KDF will get the nurturing it needs to grow beyond what we see today. The way I see it a strong red faction means a stronger game as an added source of reliable revenue is added in the form of more KDF players. Who knows a "finished," (as in not the same amount of mission content right away but enough content to do 1-50), KDF faction could even lure back a sizable amount of the rabid KDF fans that teamed over Qo'noS in the days of open beta.
It is a money thing. Just like the point defense is a money thing. My Klingon bought one for 400k on the exchange though.
Discussing how they have less I have no problem with. Wanting to see a FULL faction I agree with. Having the missions feel right I want myself. The feds in some of those missions use the exact same text as the Orion or Nausicans do in the Fed missions. I expect them to fly in gold painted ships and talk about how they already destroyed their universes Klingons and will now do it here.
It is reading how they Demand or Deserve everything the other faction has, then saying that every single thing they were given is somehow unique to them and off limits. The feds are not allowed to have a single thing be unique to them by some posts. Already there is a thread saying they Deserve a 180 degree torpedo. Argue it with ship hulls and I read and likely agree, unless it's these other race ships. Honestly I feel that if suddenly they said Fed only phasers and Klingon only disruptors there would be the same small subgroup arguing that it wasn't fair, Klingons deserve the phasers, but Klingons only on disruptors.
It is disappointing to read and counter productive. It give the impression that the whole faction only care about their faction within the game and takes away from other to me valid arguments. Or ,just turns people off from reading some of the forum areas.
I agree and I do not agree, sorry.
I agree on cannons used sub-targeting would be cool ,but because of their burst damage potential cannons are bad for subsystems targeting, (especially shields or when coupled with a drain build tossing polarons), and could get OP really fast.
Please forgive my analogy.
It's not just a matter sharing. The more alike the factions are the more vanilla the game. Not that vanilla is a bad flavor but when I buy ice cream I seldom buy just vanilla. Mmmm Ben and Jerry's Rainforest Crunch... Vanilla ice cream with caramel swirl and toffee covered brazil nuts. *drools*
See novel game mechanics are like that. They are what make you pick Rainforest Crunch over Strawberry Cheesecake, or vice versa. Both use vanilla as the base flavor but the features are the draw. If both sides are identical then all you really have is the same flavor of vanilla in a different container with different snazzy graphics wrapped around that container.
The more Feds get KDF mechanics, and vice versa, the more vanilla the game becomes. Then why would you try the other side? Just so you can see the other wrapper? You already played the game.
Very well, however I strongly recommend to check your facts before you post in the future.
It helps a lot.;)
Just to clear this one up:
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=406&page=13
In the second row you can see the second gunner (told to target the engine only) actually manages to hit the engine.
HMM...well either that or another possibility would be to add "Cannon: Target Subsystem X" and "Torpedo:Target Subsystem X" as tactical BO options.
We do know it's possible form the shows and movies.
The point however is different when you compare two very different things like you did:
Character abilities and consoles.
In STO character abilities are identical (probably because it was easier given STO's rushed release)
In fact there have been some proposals thrown around in the past by players to make some abilities more faction specific, for example to give the KDF other Attack Patterns.
[Not more powerful, just different]
There is however a bit difference when consoles that were created as faction-specific from the beginning are made available to the other side.
Not to mention that faction diversity is something that helps factions to keep their identity and uniqueness.
One of the ways to keep factions interesting is to make them different in one way or another.
In case of STO more and more things that have made the KDF unique have been transferred over to the other side, diminishing the diversity between the two factions.
While I do not agree with everyone who has posted on these matters, I do have to say I fail to understand why this process had to be intiated in the first place.
However if I connect the demands of the Fed playerbase with the current situation, it seems the intent is to basically make the Fed side have all the features the KDF has while changing little or nothing on the KDF side, making them basically an inferior clone with little features and a red interface.
Hence for example my thread on the KDF scoutship in the shipyard forums.
While I'd like a ship with "blue slots" so to speak, I'd like it to resemble a typical Fed Science ship as little as possible while keeping both sides equally competitive and balanced.
I think it's the only way to have both factions in warlike coexistence in the game...and in peaceful coexistence in the forums.
*Chuckles*
Not moral outrage. Call it voicing concern in a way to be read.
Every time it comes up, the SMALL subgroup of the faction does the same thing. Reminds me of the the line from a movie. Take everything you can, give nothing back.
Whining. Hmmm. That word gets used a lot. Like Unique gets used a lot, or everyone. Alot of the time they do not fit. Not every fed thinks they deserve a Klingon ship. Not every Klingon are currently saying they deserve the 180 torpedo for example. Not everyone whines either. But those words get used.
A group cannot expect much if all they do is say, this should be ours now, but everything we have stays unique to us. It just won't happen. No matter how SMALL the subgroup it winds up being seen as the whole group or faction. I know it won't stop but these sorts of things should. Save it for real uniqueness like the ship hulls. That is when lines should be drown, not this sort of thing.
Not a troll, not unless you go extreme on the description in trolling and you. We all post to get a point across. So we are all Trolls.
I am like others expressing some points. Like how Some are drawing a line that shouldn't be there. Everything in one faction MUST be in both. Everything in another MUST be unique to theirs. I get it that the Klingons got the shaft from day one. So far little has changed. This sort of thing doesn't get many people to be interested in walking over and joining in asking for a change.
It's been bounced around to make Season whatever a Klingon only time for finally finishing up the faction. At the expense of anything new for the Feds, or if ever done another faction. How does anyone expect players who are in that or those factions to go for it? One small way is these consoles exchanges, and remember that every time both sides get something new. It's small, but it's something. Which is all the other faction or factions would have to look forward to while this mythical Klingon age season is done. (I won't hold my breath waiting as it stands now)
You are unlikely to get your answer in here.
It will likely come fron Tribble.
You are making demands for it and for having things your way. Both are turn offs.
The leach going to feds will not change Klingons. Really not sure on Feds either.
If you have stuck with the Klingons for so long why would you cut for one thing?
Would that not make the faction ever weaker(less players)? Shouldn't you instead be trying to get more people to at least make and sometimes play a Klingon?
Since they argue that the faction is such a small percent of the game?
I have a Science Capt. I want those skills to be balanced and fixed. Every time I read a response from Cryptic after the break another skill it is we'll get back and fix it, at some point. When we have the time. Should I delete that toon out of disgust?
How about this instead.
Instead of thinking Faction first and player second, Player first, Faction second.
The Klingons are listed as eighteen percent. Cryptic says that the lack of content is due to those numbers. I agree with the people who say it's reverse.
This SMALL subgroup of Klingon who demand from feds, say nothing is unique, then claim everything is unique on their faction is a detraction. They I believe they think only of their faction. They will only make it look like the whole faction is this way. To hope to get anything done the faction needs a majority. I do not know if even then it will work. But if every time a person logs into the game there is a lone player going on about how this or that is unique, you can't have it, then demands to be given something from another side then the whole faction gets tuned out.
I do not speak as Fed or Klingon, always(well almost always)as a player. I do not know if you directed your comments on rants and Airs(rant will always cover me though) I have no airs about me. I am a player and I want the game as a whole to go on. To be as fun as possible for all. The Klingon place is to me the same as the Feds, or Romulans or any other possible faction people will think of. A place it is not now and I fear it will never be.
I rarely post about things like fair console trades or such, I think they should be by the way. I just see they mostly break down to things like it's ours, it's unique to us(sometimes from the Klingon side, sometimes on both). I thing it's that Klingon have so little, so some are afraid to share anything at all. Blame it on the numbers, blame it on Cryptic. I really do just think that the almost always break down to this same tired argument is turning off the majority and that needs to change. So for a change I'm going to push my two cents.
YOU SHALL NOT!!!
get the leech console :P
Instead, since you talked about trading consoles between factions you can take bio neutral warhead and we can have AMS or something equally useful.
This way impact wont be so big to game balance.
Cause like i said 1 million times MACO shields+plasma leech+efficiant captain boffs+passive traits efficient and warpcore + skills on efficient and warpcore and seperate powers can result into max power all over across the board literally!!!
You will see me doing it with my FED toon once it goes live and destroy any klingon remnants i encounter EASILY!
Why to buff federation even more when its already powerful enough if not more powerful to compensate KDF both in pve and pvp?
Why not to keep KDF a minimal faction but worth playing?
They got unique weapons from quests that got 10% change to dmg shields
They got better escorts both in turn rates and firepower and hull and shields
They got more versatile ships with more universal boffs
They got better sci ships while we got only a few
They got fleet heavy escort carrier(best ship in the game) and its constant free tractor pets
They got better cloths than us and more things to play with.
Why on the seven kingdoms they should get on top of all those our last worthy UNIQUE console and destroy pvp balance and leave KDF faction just a silly skin that lacks MACO shields and stats on the ships????
If the answer is money then your wrong simply because ppl will buy the lockboxes either you put inside bio neutral warhead or plasma leech and most ppl will buy them for the ships and not the consoles since those console will be sold cheap enough on exchange whiles ships wont be cheap so....
You will get a lot of more money if you keep KDF alive and give ppl a good REASON to play it.
Plasma leech is a good reason to play KDF and if you leave it on vandal destroyer it will bring you more money cause players will play KDF just for leech so he will buy at least vandal destroyer and a couple of more ships and stuff to be good.
If you share this then no1 will be rolling new KDF toons and no1 will invest on buying KDF stuff anymore.
I personally i might quit the game or just abandon KDF meaning no more money for KDF stuff and play FED with minimal real money cost like most f2p's noobs do.
You see we might be only 20% of total pop but all this 20% i bet it paid lots of money cause we rly liked KDF stuff and lore.
Want me to link how much i paid ONLY on KDF side?
And now you want to bring balance upside down and you expect me to pay all those money to fed side as well?
NO WAY and even if some klingons do they are only 20%vs80%
So you have to keep a reason for the 80% to want to be a part of that small 20%
Since you all here are so much of maths talkers here some simple maths.
It benefits the company NOT to share the leech console but anything else and it benefits game balance and our future co-existance when it comes to the 2 factions.
Without leech console KDF will shrink even more PVP ques will be a mess tons of feds dudes waiting in the line and no KDF from the otherside to give them an easy match!!!
Dont say i didnt warn you.
This sharing thingy is not rly good ,especially the leech console we got and the maco shields they got those two are like pylons each side MUST have unique in order to maintain balance and survivability of both factions.
Sorry for not agreeing, thanks but it isn't needed.
Ok, my thoughts back.
Cryptic decided on what would go where. Other then ship hulls. Ship hulls are one of the things that make a faction unique. Now these consoles, they are not all things that are clear cut unique. If I remember the jumper console description(the one Feds just got for the point defense) It states it's rapid warping a ship to behind a enemy, making it appear it teleported. That sounds like the Picard maneuver to me. So it could be argued that feds would have that. And so on with several different consoles on both factions. Because of whatever reason one cares to choose there will be similar tech for any Faction. I am not saying everything should be shared. My point was that a constant, no it's unique on every thing is detracting from the game.
If it were to be pushed even more to the extreme then only feds would get phasers and Klingon disruptors. So either no point defense for Klingon or it becomes Disruptor defense.
Thank you for your thoughtful response.
Here have some plain old vanilla ice cream. Seems to be your favorite flavor.
Will the Feds and Klingons still have the same ships?
Answer yes.
Will they have new abilities to try in them?
Answer yes.
I never said every item should be traded.
Others have said however things like unique is one sided. Theirs. Demanded everything they do not have. Everything. I simply say if that is the path Cryptic is choosing to go then do it on an equal basis. I waited a while before even saying anything and aimed it to that general theme, not just a leach which frankly could have been Breen design.
In playing a Klingon I have not flown a ship that felt the same as my old Fed Recon Science. I don't think my old Defiant is like a raptor or BoP. And not because of what type or if it had a cloak. Now the two flagships that came out for 2nd anniversary. That felt like the difference between cannons and beams, or brick or shaped brick. The boff layout, the ship design, yes, even the look are flavor. Not what color a beam or cannon is. Not my point defense fires a phaser and yours a photon.
If someone wants to say a console gives too big an advantage to a faction fine. If someone wants to say some thing are meant for only some factions, again fine. But, when it becomes every time something is even hinted at it becomes a THIS IS OURS ALONE then it is too much. Especally if the same person says I DEMAND X from them. That is the sprt of posts I am finally responding to in these forums. It goes too far and detracts from the rest.
You have stated your opinion and I respect it. I have stated mine. They are not in agreement and I do not see a point where the other will concede.
Now this constant thing of KDF calling for Fed items, well I do not agree. Feds do it more. If by no other reason than having a bigger population feds do it more. That could be a major reason why KDF players are not receptive to the Devs giving away more things that make the KDF different beyond ship skins, costumes, maps and eight missions.
Feds wanted universal console slots. Feds now have more ships than the KDF with uni-console slots.
Feds wanted cloaking. Feds got an escort, a cruiser with standard cloaks and the Rhode Island with a unique decoy console that cloaks them for a few moments to get away from the decoy.
I could go on but then again I made a list earlier in this thread when I first posted.
I could, yet again, reiterate my point that diversity through unique faction game mechanics is a good thing that can drive PvP meta gaming through a mechanic called perfect imbalance but I said it already so here is a different point...
There is not a whole lot left for the Feds to claim from the KDF so when they want KDF consoles that, will inevitably end up on the exchange for 500,000 ECs, (that I effectively spent an average of ten dollars to get), well I have a hard time seeing it as fair. Maybe fair for you who bought a Sub-space Jump console for your Fed but not so fair in my eyes.
Oh and of course you will not find a ship in the KDF that flys just like your Fed Recon, KDF is sci light all we have for true science vessels is a handful of Gorn ships. Though if you mix the right parts together for your recon you will have an idea of just how far off the pivot point for the raptor really is... Yeah I have flown all the Gorn sci ships and the vast majority of the Fed sci ships too, (can't speak for the Vulcan as I did not buy it). The recon is my fave Feddie sci-boat.
No, I was looking at
in the same post. But having reread I see where I made my mistake.
Ah, see that's not how I read his post. Perhaps because I share some of his views regarding certain KDF posters tendency to complain about anything and everything, but I read his post as being a sarcastic denunciation of people's tendencies towards justifying very selfish and short sighted positions.
Why do I call the "this will be the death blow of the KDF!" position selfish and short sighted? For one, nobody has bothered to try to explain any sort of long term ramifications. The closest thing we've gotten to date is one person saying he'd stop playing on the KDF and just start playing on the Federation... one person. He may represent more than one person, or he may realize that a handful of leech consoles ending up on the Federation side for either more money or a TRIBBLE ton of EC's for a temporary period of time was not the death blow to the KDF we all expected.
By "us" do you mean Klingons? Because I play on the KDF. Or by "us" do you just mean Klingons who agree with you? Because, unfortunately, you will bother me even if I leave you alone. You see, it's been shown time and time again that the developers DO come to these forums and DO take feedback here seriously, and when the feedback they receive is the unreasonable ******** of overly entitled players demanding that Cryptic not make any more money on the consoles they designed, it lessens their tendency to take these forums seriously as a representation of the player base.
Because lets not kid ourselves people. Anyone claiming that this will "kill" the KDF is either panicking himself or attempting to start a panic out of sheer stupidity. Anyone ******** about this killing the KDF on a large number of unrelated threads should be getting called out as a "troll" but I'll let that idiot double standard pass and address the argument itself. They could release the Plasmonic Leech Console to the Federation today, for free, and they could let it stack with the MACO shields, and you'd only ever see 5 percent of the Federation population using both of them and the only folks these Feds would bother would be other Feds in FvF PVP and some of the Klingons in Kerrat, not even all of them.
Now, they won't release it to the Federation today for free, they'll release it to the Federation later, as part of a lock box program that will make them quite a bit of money and fuel future development. I'm okay with that because it will make them rare enough to still give the KDF an offensive edge in consoles in most instances of Kerrat. An edge that, currently, Federation players need to grind up MACO gear to match.
Went through all the trouble of responding and it didn't save.....
I think that they are more then they aren't. You draw a line further then I do. You are thinking mainly PVP while I was thinking mainly PVE because I just see no reason for doing PVP right now. When challenged we get the wrong map, or something happens like a server disconnect. If a group someone decides to ruin it like the last STF I did. Not from lack of experience, but intending to ruin it for the others because they are angry or frustrated. Who knows. I'll do something different if I want to try any PVP.
I'm going out of order by the way.
With my Recon Science. I have used some other Science ships and they didn't feel right to me. So it isn't that. or just that the only Sci ship for the Klingon faction I've tried was also a brick with fighters. It was it didn't feel right for me. I like the starter BoP also. There are other ships I've used I do not like as much in the faction. It's The ship, it's the general setup of those ships that get me in them. I personally want to build around a ship with what I have available to me, not around a console. (which isn't much to do with my or your post) And not why I've said a word in here.
Cloaking devices. There are some who just want the right cloak on their Defiant or Enterprise refit(whatever). As they see it. Others want all cloaks and those two get muddles. I've also tried to avoid that before now.
My experience in game was more kilngons were being vocal or demanding in game. My experience was having other klingons tell mine how it SHOULD be. Like my example of a Klingon dedicated Science ship. While some want a real science ship I've run into a lot who want a hybrid Battleship/Science ship with the best from both and nothing negative. Like how some Feds seem to want a flying I win Button.
I'm just going to jump in with a couple of things.
This a Klingon thread in a Klingon forum so it is mainly about SOME post by SOME Klingons. Still I fell into a trap I dislike. I should not have used the Klingon, posters or players instead.
I am being insanely sarcastic, among other things. Because over and over I hear that one side or the other wants something, Demands something, without any thought about the cost. Perhaps no concern about a cost. If this had been a fed thread demanding a high shield modifier for all escorts, A LTC Boff on a refit of a tier 2 science ship when the recon science only has a LT, well then it might be more Fed oriented after the other day.
You use the word selfish, not arguing it but I think it's more scared. Scared that they will loose the faction. To me however, the hard line response in and out of the game will make things worse. For everyone. Because part of the player base stops listening. The faction needs seventy five percent of the player base on it's side.
I could point blame at Cryptic. They made the war. They didn't select a few consoles for each faction and make the rest neutral. They left the Klingon faction in the state it is now. I could. I'm not trying to though because then they might be turned off from listening. Like some players are from all the arguing. I had over 20 players on ignore till the last time I played for arguing about these same things. I removed them all before I was disconnected.
I do however blame the fact I haven't been able to log back in in part for going on and on in here......
It kills KDF and we all know pretty much, dont let this troll to fool urselfs.
Its a very important console feds got their own important stuff and they are more than ours.
You say feds need to grind up MACO gear to match?
We dont have to grind up KHG gear to match?
We bought the console with RL and you wants feds to get it off the exchange ?
It already killed me as KDF i will be playing FED with minimal money also.
No more generous money offers from me to KDF side ever again.
You see how it kills KDF now?
Experienced veteran elder KDF pilots cant stand this fraud when they will be owning us with full powers all over across the board while we paid RL money and they paid also RL money but took our console for free.... and now we cant stand a chance against all those ships that have more ''stats'' than our ships.
I can respect that you would come from a PvE angle. I was pure PvE once and seldom did PvP in other games before STO. I am sorry to hear that griefers ruined your experience.
I will ken to the notion that there is an advantage to both sides not having unique mechanics. It becomes much easier to balance the game itself. The caveat is that at the same time you ruin a piece of the meta game. The part where you try to figure out which is the best paper to beat the best rock or scissor. When you PvP more this strategic element of the meta game becomes it's own kinda fun and even leads folk like me to spend real life money to get respecs, weapons and gear to test these nascent notions.
As a rule meta builds are the best way to get folks to holler "Hax" in zone chat. And yes sometimes we do build around a console that enhances a captain ability, BO skill or even one that drains an opponent faster as an opponent without subsystems power can not run, can not turn, can not hit, nor can they defend. Given the amount of cross healing and the viability of both hull and shield heals, drain builds can go a long way to break a stale mate in the battle space. Out of balance and they simply scare new and old PvPers out of the queues.
Given that many KDF players also PvP the notion that the Feds with a MACO shield, (which is very common in PvP), using Plasmodic Leach for an even bigger boost will scare a few out of the queues. Even if it is only a couple of days before a restructure of how Plasmodic Leach works and blocking it from over enhancing the MACO effect that is bad for PvP.
Then again all that is the reason I do not run the Plasmodic Leach on my KDF builds even though I own it. Did I just admit it is a touch on the OP side? Yup. Still there are those who continue to run the Bug despite admitting that it is hands down the absolute best escort in the game. Some will take any edge they can get.
But to write like that is not being as myopic and emotional as I am supposed to be according to another poster in this thread.
I would say no to a KDF super science cruiser with zero drawbacks just as quick as I said no to Feds getting Plasmodic Leach. As I said before, for me, even in PvP there is something to getting the job done on your own merits. That and such a monster in the queues could hurt the numbers that do brave PvP. One of the reasons I have taught PvP in the past was because I want a good challenge, I want them to have fun too, and I only want them to call hax as a backhanded compliment.
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Panic! EVERY ONE PANIC! THIS IS THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT!
There, now that I've convinced you that I'm one of you, I can get close enough to smack you upside the head with some sense.
For one, if they make the Maco shield and the Leech console mutually exclusive buffs, then this is no longer a game balance issue. Defensive oriented players will choose the shield, offensive oriented players will choose the console and a different, less effective shield. You see how simple that was?
Now, it hasn't even happened yet but it's already killed you as a player? If you'll forgive me for saying so, you seem to make hasty decisions on very little information and so I'm not likely to take your decision seriously. Also, given the extreme nature of your reaction, I'd assume this is the first time you've seen the KDF lose exclusive access to something, so I can't imagine that you actually speak for particularly "experienced" or "veteran" KDF players.
You're clearly a far more patient and empathic man than I. I'm afraid I come from a background where idiotic rhetoric needs to be challenged for fear that it will turn into accepted policy and so I see a thread like this, wrong on so many levels, and I challenge it in an attempt to do what good I can for this game that I love.
But as for the reasons why, Cryptic had to bundle the ships and the consoles. With the majority of their player base being at end game the individual consoles made those ships a viable purchase for the majority of their current players. I do agree they should just come out and repeat what they said when they started releasing +1 ships way back when, these consoles were always intended to be available to both factions.
Yes but they are enjoying a respectful conversation with those who do not share kilemorgan's stated views. The rewards for patience and empathy are positive.
Then again caustic and judgemental tend to produce what you have experienced, polarized negativity. You are a self fulling prophecy in that regard.
What? I did not call you a whiner despite your complaints about everyone else being a whiner, or emotional, or ineffective or short sighted or... See labels you use that are caustic and polarizing.
Shame really. I often thought of you as intelligent and that it would be nice to actually talk to you but then again you refuse to talk to me because I'm emotional, ineffective, irrational...
*yawns*
You see where this is going.