hey if you guys think that a timegate within a timegate is bad, one of my fleetmates, says that everytime you repeat a mission on Nukara, the FM reward decreases by FIVE!!!!
So completing an easy mission 2 times means you get no fleet marks on the second turn-in and none on the 3rd turn-in of a Medium? Somehow I think they Turned in a Medium first and an Easy second and saw the numbers, if not I think there may be revolts.
hey if you guys think that a timegate within a timegate is bad, one of my fleetmates, says that everytime you repeat a mission on Nukara, the FM reward decreases by FIVE!!!!
Wrong. Frankly also a idiot.
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I hate the cool downs, but I see why 300+ fleet marks in 2 hours?
Using just 2 alts makes this ok, it also was meant to slow us down, I'm in a small fleet and we (all 2 of us) could complete 2 projects a day, easy.
What your complaint actually is, is that you can no longer farm Nukara and be lazy.
Since you generically directed that toward anyone complaining in this thread, I will personally take offense at you referring to me (and anyone like me) as "lazy".
Those of us in smaller fleets have to spend more of our time farming for contributions to upgrade our fleets' starbases than members of larger fleets who have the luxury of population. For those that are subscribers, like myself, WE PAY TO PLAY yet are spent farming rather than playing in order to enjoy this oh-so-wonderful Season 6 content <spit>.
I, personally, am at the top of the leaderboard in my fleet with over 400,000FC and 300,000FC, respectively, on two of my three fleet characters. Both limited-time special projects so far completely solely by me (do the math on the dil spent), in addition to us achieving 10,000+ military, 3,000+ science, and 2,000+ engineering xp working together (think about my FC counts). Our tier 1 shipyard should be completed this evening, finally, but I'm not holding my breath on being able to get our tier 1 starbase upgrade or any other major perk project underway anytime soon.
Since Season 6 started, I haven't been doing anything else but farming for the starbase! While other trolls, like you, have been enjoying all this content and playing the game, I've been working on progressing my fleet's capabilities rather than playing the game in any other areas than Nukara Prime.
How dare you sit back and refer to anyone as "lazy" or a "baby" for being upset at this cooldown patch while taking offense at some "strawman" comment as you act like a brown-nosing dev yes-man troll?
If you are a solo player not in a fleet, this doesn't concern you, so stay out of the discussion.
If you are a member of a fleet who is content to sit back and let your fellow members do all the work while you may or may not reap the rewards of their efforts, then you're the "lazy" one and definitely don't belong in this discussion.
If you actually have been farming at all to contribute to your fleet (I find that hard to believe with your displayed attitude) and still act the way you do, then you're blind and ignorant and your argument holds no water.
In any case, the facts remain: the small fleets got screwed by the devs because they either (a) caught on too late to something that should've been spotted on Tribble or (b) did a /facepalm and scrambled to implement previously intended code that had yet to be hinted at even on Tribble. The restrictions both for Fleet Mark availability on Nukara Prime missions and the cooldown times on the Easy and Medium missions there are a ridiculously redundant control measure that has upset a majority of the STO fleet community. The devs also pulled a shady backstab on the small fleet community by sneaking in a patch implementation like some underhanded politician sticking a rider on a bill in Congress, then editing their announcement afterwards like Pee-Wee Herman saying "I meant to do that!"
It's wrong, all the way 'round, and it got noticed. Oops?
Oh, and guess what. You're in the minority.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
It is not constructive nor productive manner of discussion to call each other names ("nuub", "troll" "idiot" and whatnot) if you want to achieve any result in a discussion.
And what I see as a result is:
* balance in the game
* nicer game to play
* communication with the devs
* and removal of nukara cooldowns
Fleet Marks aren't only resource hog in the starbase development. But is the most time consuming and unrewarding, due to lack of thought on requirement balance and time versus reward system.
Come T3 projects you probably see 600 marks, 200k dil, 90 white doffs per project, and you won't be running 3 projects a day anymore. Not to mention that T3 is twice xp points as T2.
As for content take for example "Starbase Blockade" it forces you to sit there for 20 minutes, there's no possibility to finish it faster. It offers no dil reward and the drop is just abysmal. Yesterday I did 5 of them just to understand them, and all I saw were batteries and white mk x. Not to mention that I took my best pve escort build there (3x crtd3 polaron dhc, purple mk xi tac consoles and whatnot) and the mob is just incredibly buffed up for that level of play. So I swapped ES for TBR on my karfi and went back, it went smoother, but still I have to sit through the event for 20 minutes to only get 20 odd marks.
What I wonder is this the direction this game is taking? You're being forced into unimaginative grind because there's new artificial currency that's impossible to get otherwise. The drop in this grind is just abusmal, and there's no other way if you want to advance the starbase.
Seriously. Folks were screaming for new content, something challenging and interesting, and all they get is just grindhouse sweatshop with no loot? I mean Mechwarrior Online beta comes out in a week, new wow expansion in 8 weeks, new mmo's are forming up and some of them are reaching 250M accounts. Is this really the time to TRIBBLE off your playerbase like that? Seriously. The competition is out there and it is hungry and dangerous.
Now, I do understand that cryptic is not huge company with deep pockets and large resources, and a lot of things are put on hold for later, but seriously open your heart to your customers, show them some love and they'll pay you twice. Isn't it obvious?
It is not constructive nor productive manner of discussion to call each other names ("nuub", "troll" "idiot" and whatnot) if you want to achieve any result in a discussion.
And what I see as a result is:
* balance in the game
* nicer game to play
* communication with the devs
* and removal of nukara cooldowns
Fleet Marks aren't only resource hog in the starbase development. But is the most time consuming and unrewarding, due to lack of thought on requirement balance and time versus reward system.
Come T3 projects you probably see 600 marks, 200k dil, 90 white doffs per project, and you won't be running 3 projects a day anymore. Not to mention that T3 is twice xp points as T2.
As for content take for example "Starbase Blockade" it forces you to sit there for 20 minutes, there's no possibility to finish it faster. It offers no dil reward and the drop is just abysmal. Yesterday I did 5 of them just to understand them, and all I saw were batteries and white mk x. Not to mention that I took my best pve escort build there (3x crtd3 polaron dhc, purple mk xi tac consoles and whatnot) and the mob is just incredibly buffed up for that level of play. So I swapped ES for TBR on my karfi and went back, it went smoother, but still I have to sit through the event for 20 minutes to only get 20 odd marks.
What I wonder is this the direction this game is taking? You're being forced into unimaginative grind because there's new artificial currency that's impossible to get otherwise. The drop in this grind is just abusmal, and there's no other way if you want to advance the starbase.
Seriously. Folks were screaming for new content, something challenging and interesting, and all they get is just grindhouse sweatshop with no loot? I mean Mechwarrior Online beta comes out in a week, new wow expansion in 8 weeks, new mmo's are forming up and some of them are reaching 250M accounts. Is this really the time to TRIBBLE off your playerbase like that? Seriously. The competition is out there and it is hungry and dangerous.
Now, I do understand that cryptic is not huge company with deep pockets and large resources, and a lot of things are put on hold for later, but seriously open your heart to your customers, show them some love and they'll pay you twice. Isn't it obvious?
I so have to agree with you, on the name calling, the communication the Dev's lack the lot of it. PWE is really driving this game into the ground especially when you look at the competition, if I was a gold and not the lifetimer that I am I would probably cancel the subscription and jump ship to SWTOR or one of the other MMO's out there atm.
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I expect the decision was made so that they can more freely add fleet marks to other non S6 content without compromising their calculations on the average amount of fleet marks they want people to earn each day.
Its also likely they want people spreading out and not hanging out in Nukara for the entirety of the fleet event.
There really is nothing else to do, that feel worth the time invested. This change was all wrong, if they don't want people spending all of those two hours in Nukara, have better alternatives, and don't nerf Nukara until then.
Actually, a easy fix if they don't want players exceeding X marks earned a day. Hardcap it, when you hit that limit you can't earn anymore. So people can frenzy for a few hours, or take their time over a couple runs.
For those of you who haven't heard, there is (eventually) going to be a starbase contact who will allow you to trade in excess Commendation XP for Fleet Marks. Any amount of Commendation XP you have over 100,000 (Rank 4) can be converted. Unfortunately, no other details are forthcoming other than the rumor that the exchange rate will be 1000 Commendation XP to 1 Fleet Mark. Here's hoping that is implemented soon and that the exchange rate will be something a bit easier to swallow (1:100 sounds about right to me, though 1:500 might be more likely)
In a dev post just a few days ago it was stated that they are still working on an exchange rate for cxp to fleet marks. So where this rumor came from I dont know. I have 150k cxp in all but recruitment, and i doubt they are going to let me have several hundred marks just like that. This also is another thing on the "soon" list... so lets refresh everybody on the "soon" list.
Romulan Faction was a "soon" at one point
Finished Klingon Faction was at one point a "working on it" but later got moved to a "soon"
Improved Crafting System was also a "soon"
Improved PVP system yep that was a "soon" also, and even part of S6 as recently as a few months ago.
How are you enjoying the expanded sector maps? That was at one point a "soon" also but is now a "maybe"
How are you enjoying the new STFs we were promised as a "soon"
I sure have equipped all my BOFFs in mk XII gear from EDCs that was another "soon"
Oh and during development Fleet Starbases was also a "soon"..
So we have gotten 1/8 of this "soon" list. And i will agree that most of these "soon" promises were made while Atari was running the show. But the statements were made by Cryptic employees acting as game developers. Cryptic's definition of "soon" and the generally accepted definition of soon for the rest of the english speaking world seem to differ wildly here. I have learned not to hold my breath on anything cryptic says is coming "soon". It just like anything else they say is a hollow promise with little to no backing to it. They honestly think we are stupid that they tell us a good story we buy it and think its true.
Well as George W. Bush said "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice you are not going to fool me again"
This "BUG" or Exploit or whatever you want to call it was WAY out of wack with the rewards from the other missions - it was never intended to be that way - cryptic should have taken no more than 2 days after learning of it to bring it down.
The only people who are crying and whining are the people in small fleets - why? - Because it gave them false hope that they could build a starbase in a resonable amout of time - when the system was designed so that a fleet of 50ish people could be done in 7-8months
That's it - thats the whole issue - you got your hopes up that a small fleet could possibly get to Tier5 when it was made so that a micro fleet < 10 would NEVER reach tier 5
Nukara was your hope - and they pulled the rug out from that hope. That's it. Nothing else to it. You just have to accept the idea that small fleets where never to reach the Tier 5
Right from the get go if you knew the requirements - you would have known that a fleet under 5 active players should have hoped to get to tier 3 fully completed at BEST
Sorry to be blunt, but that is the way it is -no 1/2/3/4 person fleet should have a tier 5 base anyways - that's like building a 10 story office building for 5 employees
What they need to do is find another system so that small fleets - or solo players can build up FM and experience which they will then be able to spend at a "general" base for ships and gear after a min amount of time has passed
with this idea - everyone would eventually be able to buy the stuff they want if they have earned enough FM/xp
If you are in a fleet of less than 5 you were fooled or deluded into thinking you could have a tier 5 base in any reasonable time frame - get it out right now and you will feel better.
And its not only Cryptics fault - you knew that bases were to be long and next to impossible for small fleets to build - and if you were farming Nukara for 600 marks a event - while the others paid 10-50 you knew something was wrong! And now you are whinning because they have put an end to something that was not right - don't even go there and say you had no thoughts that it was to good to be true!
I almost never bother to post on the forums, but this was an egregious error. It now seems pretty clear that fleet marks are purely there to bottleneck small fleets. Wasn't there a devpost a while back that said the overwhelming majority of fleet were composed of <20 members? Yeah, they are totally screwed now. Thanks guys.
That's it - thats the whole issue - you got your hopes up that a small fleet could possibly get to Tier5 when it was made so that a micro fleet < 10 would NEVER reach tier 5
Nobody talks about reaching T5 in small fleets, folks won't be around that long
T2 seemed achievable and most folks are curious about some decent t2 ships and weapons, potentially better than current borg/dil store, but worse than pretty mk xii you can get from exchange.
May be some small fleets will grind it to T3 to get that mighty fleet defiantR, that seems interesting. But I seriously doubt, even thou we didn't see the resource requirements for T2->T3 projects yet but I assume them to be twice as much: 600 marks, 120 white doffs, 120k dil per 1k tier exp.
Small fleet folks like me want sensible and achievable reward for this endless grind that they have to suffer for a long period of time. That's what this thread is about. Bring the balance, adjust the cost, open the dialog.
Nukara was just the straw that broke the camels back, honestly.
and if you were farming Nukara for 600 marks a event
I keep seeing this number thrown around a lot, but not everybody was hitting that much. Maybe just the dedicated teams of farmers. Anyone running around solo got a lot less. But we still got hammered for this backwards change.
And where was it ever stated that smaller fleets should never expect to reach Tier 5? Even with the nerfed Nukara missions it will still be possible to do eventually. So this seems like an assumption on your part.
I keep seeing this number thrown around a lot, but not everybody was hitting that much. Maybe just the dedicated teams of farmers. Anyone running around solo got a lot less. But we still got hammered for this backwards change.
And where was it ever stated that smaller fleets should never expect to reach Tier 5? Even with the nerfed Nukara missions it will still be possible to do eventually. So this seems like an assumption on your part.
Ok the word "never" should "never" be used as it is possible for a tiny fleet to reach T5 after a LLOOOOOOONNNNNGGGG time and a massive burden of grinding that would exhaust most human beings
and never implies my belief that there will be major changes - new stuff to buy - people leaving - company problems - etc etc before a tiny fleet would get there
Who knows in a year they maybe selling c-store ships that will make the Fleet ship obsolete!! And they probably will - so what was all the grinding for?? Its just like them in a year to come out with a c-store ship that is slightly better than the one you just spent 1000 hrs+ grinding for.
This patch has practically destroyed any chance of advancement for small fleets. Small fleets were already struggling, now they gonna struggle even more so.
This. It was already far too difficult for smaller fleets to manage. This makes things drastically worse.
Seriously, whoever at Cryptic thought this up, I have two words for you... sadly I'm pretty sure the censoring software on the forums would catch the first one.
And apparently nerfing Fleet Mark generation is easier than putting DOFF missions for converting commendations into Fleet Marks. DOFF missions that were supposedly already coded and ready to be hooked into the game.
I wouldn't worry about it as apparently the exchange rate is so abhorrent that it really isn't worth worrying about. Talk is the exchange is 30,000CXP for 30FM.
The highest standard payoff rate for DOff assignments is about 50CXP/0.5hours. At that rate you'd have to run 600 assignments to run the exchange assignment once.
If you filled your 20 assignment slots (assuming you ignore all else, have the DOffs to run all of those assignments within a single category, and can find enough appropriate assignments to do it... which is a looooong shot and a waste) that would mean running 30 separate runs of 20 full assignments.
In other words in a best case (and highly unlikely) scenario you'd be looking at 15 hours to earn 30 Fleet Marks. So if you bust your butt and toss your entire DOff experience at this thing you might (but probably won't) earn about 2FM an hour.
... that tribble alone should earn you 1FM an hour just for clicking it. So that should give you an idea of exactly how screwed up the Fleet Mark DOff Assignment payout is looking to be.
If that was the only mission you were doing, doesn't that tell you that it was likely out of line with what was intended?
The rewards are attached to a time-gated event. One that you may miss entirely for days or weeks if it doesn't fall within your play time. The payouts SHOULD be substantially higher, that's the entire point of making it time-gated. If the payouts aren't massively higher then why gate it at all instead of having it open 24/7 like the other queued missions? And where's the incentive for players to rush out and participate when the event is active?
Speaking of fleet tribble, I hope the 1 hour cooldown continues to count down while we're logged off.
It will not. If you're lucky it won't only countdown while you're on the ground and might also countdown while you're in space. Though I wouldn't like to make bets there...
No, they fixed a bug that restored the time requirements to what they were intended to be.
The "time requirements" are in stone via the project countdowns. Supposedly they put the minimum time gate on Star Bases at nine months. Generating Fleet Marks is no problem for larger fleets because even with cooldowns on top of cooldowns you can have hundreds of people contributing.
This just screws small fleets. Plain and simple. That's all it does.
If your fleet is so small you can't complete these projects you need to recruit...
No, we don't.
People like small Fleets because the people in the Fleet actually get to know each other and interact with each other on a regular basis. Some people don't want a large group of faceless nobodies, a mere list of unknown names with no actual connection beyond a few system mechanics.
In a dev post just a few days ago it was stated that they are still working on an exchange rate for cxp to fleet marks. So where this rumor came from I dont know. I have 150k cxp in all but recruitment, and i doubt they are going to let me have several hundred marks just like that.
This also is another thing on the "soon" list...
The "rumour" is apparently more than a rumour as it's something that's been sourced back to a Dev in the DOff channel. Though it likely isn't set in stone, it gives you an idea of the "value" they're placing on CXP.
Beyond that, apparently you have to buy in increments, and the suggested one was 30,000. And you can't spend past the T4 cap. Which means that 100,000 of your CXP would be inaccessible, and you'd only have 50,000 to spend. Which means you'd get to run that DOff mission once to earn 30FM. Then you'd have to earn another 10,000CXP in that category to run the mission again.
And how much do you want to bet it's a two day mission, and has a cooldown, probably in the 24-48 hour range? Meaning you could only run it every three days or so anyways.
And this isn't supposed to be "soon" it was actually supposed to be implemented within an actual time frame that was actually soon. Since, you know, they already stated that Heretic finished the assignment prior to leaving and it just wasn't hooked up.
This patch has practically destroyed any chance of advancement for small fleets. Small fleets were already struggling, now they gonna struggle even more so.
I got a unfinished project that requires 900 marks, 20 astrometrics (400k each on exchange) and bunch of other peanuts. At best I could get 50 marks. possibly 100 during the event. So now all my fleet is stuck for 18 events till we get this cleared.
Signed and resigned
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Opening a lockbox is like using a public restroom when u gotta poo.
You are just hoping nobody blew on the seat or that all the toilet paper is gone.
I was pretty bummed out about this Saturday morning. I have a one-man Fleet with 6 alts in it, and I was looking forward to running Nukara missions during the event for big FMs. Friday night (after the patch) was my first run, and I got a total of 60 FMs.
Saturday morning, I worked really hard, alternating my characters to avoid the cooldown, getting lucky with the Hive mission, and got 75 FM. I figutred that getting my Special Project, with its 600 FM requirement, would take a week or so of hard work.
Then, I stumbled onto these fleet events that they've added - 2 ground and 2 space 5-man missions, plus a 15 man mission. Here's the thing - There's no need for a "leader" to step up and call the action (aka -boss you around). There's no need to organize and coordinate strategies beforehand. In fact, there's seldom any talk at all. You zone in, attack the enemies together, and, 10-15 minutes later, you leave with 15-30 FMs! it's really easy, and fun.
In the last day and a half, I've picked up about 700 FMs, just from doing the colony invasion, the fleet alert, and the starbase incursion mission. In fact, I'm stuck right now, waiting for 2 Fleet projects to run through their 20 hour timer so I can get new missions to fill with my excess FMs!
Give these a try. I'm not a big fan of teaming, as I'm not such a great player, but the set-up they've got in place is very nice for "lone-wolf" players.
From what my fleet mates tell me, these cooldowns DOUBLE after each completion. I was miffed about the cooldowns, but DOUBLING them is just BONEHEADED DEV-TRIBBLE!
People like small Fleets because the people in the Fleet actually get to know each other and interact with each other on a regular basis. Some people don't want a large group of faceless nobodies, a mere list of unknown names with no actual connection beyond a few system mechanics.
This right here! Agreed!
Being part of a small fleet, where everyone knows eachother.
That can easy run elite STFs and get optionals each time.
The bank is fully open to all the members because no one is gonna steal.
When leveling an alt you only have to ask once if anyone want to help and you get a full team. And when said alt is max level, people will gladly run elite STFs til that alt got the elite stf sets.
Thats still open to other players when they find some that fit in.
A group that actually play together, that actually help eachother.
We shouldn't have to invite a bunch of random unknowns just to be able to farm the needed amount of fleetmarks.
"Please, Captain, not in front of the Klingons." Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
I think the reason most people are upset here is because fleet marks are ONLY obtainable, typically, through the few new PvEs. So here's a brilliant idea that will satisfy the situation..
Add FMs to ALL PvE content..
STFs - (5 for normal, 10 for elite) they already have a damn near hour long CD.. srsly.. would chucking 5-10 FMs at STF'ers REALLY break fleet advancement?
Starbase 24 - 5 FMs as there's no CD-- srsly.. FIVE fms.. isn't gonna break the system either
Starbase 24 Ground - YES -- BRING THIS BACK -- with 5 FMs
Breaking the Planet - 5 FMs (Might even get people to PLAY this event once in a while.. I did it a sum total of ONCE because it's a been there, done that no special reward kinda thing)
Episodic content/Diplo/Exploration - Come on.. like... 1-2 FMs per mission.. srsly.. how many times can you play The Doomsday Device over and over...
Gekli/Romulan Temple/any others I missed - 5 FMs -- same as SB24/Breaking - not gonna bust the system nearly as bad as unlimited grinding redshirts for 2 hours.
The Vault - 5 all day / 10 during marks event
PvP - probably not possible with current tech, but like.. 5 FMs for the winning team, 2 for the losing. PUGs only
All of the above is what I personally think should have happened at launch and in testing anyways, as you should really get marks for doing any kind of content, not just grinding FM events for the sake of getting FMs.. seriously I love doing many different things in this game, and like.. 17 FMs for one event with no other reward besides random TRIBBLE battery drops isn't exactly motivating. None of the above make the system particularly exploitable or even remotely as busted as farming redshirts.
15 pages in 2 days expressing customer dissatisfaction in polite and respectful manner. The playerbase is clearly unhappy. Let's just say that we all eagerly await cryptic to bless us with their eternal wisdom and power and change things for better.
I think the reason most people are upset here is because fleet marks are ONLY obtainable, typically, through the few new PvEs. So here's a brilliant idea that will satisfy the situation..
Add FMs to ALL PvE content..
STFs - (5 for normal, 10 for elite) they already have a damn near hour long CD.. srsly.. would chucking 5-10 FMs at STF'ers REALLY break fleet advancement?
Starbase 24 - 5 FMs as there's no CD-- srsly.. FIVE fms.. isn't gonna break the system either
Starbase 24 Ground - YES -- BRING THIS BACK -- with 5 FMs
Breaking the Planet - 5 FMs (Might even get people to PLAY this event once in a while.. I did it a sum total of ONCE because it's a been there, done that no special reward kinda thing)
Episodic content/Diplo/Exploration - Come on.. like... 1-2 FMs per mission.. srsly.. how many times can you play The Doomsday Device over and over...
Gekli/Romulan Temple/any others I missed - 5 FMs -- same as SB24/Breaking - not gonna bust the system nearly as bad as unlimited grinding redshirts for 2 hours.
The Vault - 5 all day / 10 during marks event
PvP - probably not possible with current tech, but like.. 5 FMs for the winning team, 2 for the losing. PUGs only
All of the above is what I personally think should have happened at launch and in testing anyways, as you should really get marks for doing any kind of content, not just grinding FM events for the sake of getting FMs.. seriously I love doing many different things in this game, and like.. 17 FMs for one event with no other reward besides random TRIBBLE battery drops isn't exactly motivating. None of the above make the system particularly exploitable or even remotely as busted as farming redshirts.
i like this post, except for the STF's, 10 FM's for normal, and 20 for elite, simply because OF the cooldown, and a bonus during STF days of 50% more FM's
Aye, adding fleet mark rewards to other PvE actions would be nice, but I don't see why everyone is up in arms over this change. If anything, small fleets should be alarmed about the large dilithium sinks...once you run out of your stocks, being able to throw in 60k dilithium for some of these projects is going to hurt. But seriously, if you are a small fleet then there is simply no reason for the Nukara changes to seriously affect your fleet mark generating ability. I explained this in another thread, but the math comes down to this during the fleet mark event:
Starbase Incursion = ~60 marks per person
Colony Invasion = ~30 marks per person
Starbase Alert = 22 marks per person
Starbase Blockade = 50-60 marks per person (depending on how many engis, if orions spawn)
Total = 162-172 marks per person for about an hour's worth of investment
Team Total = 810-860 fleet marks
That total means you can fully invest in two projects, with another almost finished. And no, I will not count special projects because no small fleet in their right mind should do them. They are for large fleets to allow their members to gain fleet credits, not small fleets. And, this is just one fleet event--it happens twice a day, which means you can be set for a couple days with just one day of "grinding."
So you see, if an hour of investment gained ~160 marks per person, and people are claiming to have obtained 600 in an hour on Nukara...then yes, the "nerf" was warranted. It was grievously out of line with other fleet mark productions, and it does not hinder normal fleet mark generation. If your "small" fleet is less than five, oh well, but you can't honestly tell me that Nukara was balanced in relation to other fleet mark generators.
Starbase Incursion = ~60 marks per person
Colony Invasion = ~30 marks per person
Starbase Alert = 22 marks per person
Starbase Blockade = 50-60 marks per person (depending on how many engis, if orions spawn)
Total = 162-172 marks per person for about an hour's worth of investment
Team Total = 810-860 fleet marks
Mind you those are very optimistic nubmers, assuming you'll get a competent team in place for full 2 hours commitment. Small fleets do not have that luxury.
Go pug blockade fed side in the evening, you'll see what I'm talking about.
If they added FM to PVP and only the first 3 in the team of the DMG, HEALING count would get them...by tomorrow PVP would be the most played feature of this game...
As someone that was able to earn 600+ FM in 2 hours, I can say that it was not as easy as some people make it out to be. It required absolute constant attention for the full 2 hours without any breaks and handing is assignemnts immediatly as they completed and required a group of people also in the same state of mind. If I played casually, like I do with the other PVE FM events, without the hardcore farm mode, I was getting much much less. What annoys me is this could all of been avoided if they'd just tested season 6 for another week or 2 on Tribble and adjusted fleetmark generation.
For me, I think the cooldowns fix is far to strict, more so for a zone where you can only earn fleet marks during the event (unlike the other FM events). My solution would of been to maybe add 5 minute cooldowns to the missions, this would be enough to actually slow down the generation quite alot, without making the wait to long, ontop of that, I would of adjusted the FM's awarded as well, perhaps havled them. that way players could still goto Nukara and farm for 2 hours and have fun. Right now these changes have just sucked all the fun out of that zone.
Comments
So completing an easy mission 2 times means you get no fleet marks on the second turn-in and none on the 3rd turn-in of a Medium? Somehow I think they Turned in a Medium first and an Easy second and saw the numbers, if not I think there may be revolts.
Wrong. Frankly also a idiot.
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I hate the cool downs, but I see why 300+ fleet marks in 2 hours?
Using just 2 alts makes this ok, it also was meant to slow us down, I'm in a small fleet and we (all 2 of us) could complete 2 projects a day, easy.
Those of us in smaller fleets have to spend more of our time farming for contributions to upgrade our fleets' starbases than members of larger fleets who have the luxury of population. For those that are subscribers, like myself, WE PAY TO PLAY yet are spent farming rather than playing in order to enjoy this oh-so-wonderful Season 6 content <spit>.
I, personally, am at the top of the leaderboard in my fleet with over 400,000FC and 300,000FC, respectively, on two of my three fleet characters. Both limited-time special projects so far completely solely by me (do the math on the dil spent), in addition to us achieving 10,000+ military, 3,000+ science, and 2,000+ engineering xp working together (think about my FC counts). Our tier 1 shipyard should be completed this evening, finally, but I'm not holding my breath on being able to get our tier 1 starbase upgrade or any other major perk project underway anytime soon.
Since Season 6 started, I haven't been doing anything else but farming for the starbase! While other trolls, like you, have been enjoying all this content and playing the game, I've been working on progressing my fleet's capabilities rather than playing the game in any other areas than Nukara Prime.
How dare you sit back and refer to anyone as "lazy" or a "baby" for being upset at this cooldown patch while taking offense at some "strawman" comment as you act like a brown-nosing dev yes-man troll?
If you are a solo player not in a fleet, this doesn't concern you, so stay out of the discussion.
If you are a member of a fleet who is content to sit back and let your fellow members do all the work while you may or may not reap the rewards of their efforts, then you're the "lazy" one and definitely don't belong in this discussion.
If you actually have been farming at all to contribute to your fleet (I find that hard to believe with your displayed attitude) and still act the way you do, then you're blind and ignorant and your argument holds no water.
In any case, the facts remain: the small fleets got screwed by the devs because they either (a) caught on too late to something that should've been spotted on Tribble or (b) did a /facepalm and scrambled to implement previously intended code that had yet to be hinted at even on Tribble. The restrictions both for Fleet Mark availability on Nukara Prime missions and the cooldown times on the Easy and Medium missions there are a ridiculously redundant control measure that has upset a majority of the STO fleet community. The devs also pulled a shady backstab on the small fleet community by sneaking in a patch implementation like some underhanded politician sticking a rider on a bill in Congress, then editing their announcement afterwards like Pee-Wee Herman saying "I meant to do that!"
It's wrong, all the way 'round, and it got noticed. Oops?
Oh, and guess what. You're in the minority.
I gotta say this,
It is not constructive nor productive manner of discussion to call each other names ("nuub", "troll" "idiot" and whatnot) if you want to achieve any result in a discussion.
And what I see as a result is:
* balance in the game
* nicer game to play
* communication with the devs
* and removal of nukara cooldowns
Fleet Marks aren't only resource hog in the starbase development. But is the most time consuming and unrewarding, due to lack of thought on requirement balance and time versus reward system.
Come T3 projects you probably see 600 marks, 200k dil, 90 white doffs per project, and you won't be running 3 projects a day anymore. Not to mention that T3 is twice xp points as T2.
As for content take for example "Starbase Blockade" it forces you to sit there for 20 minutes, there's no possibility to finish it faster. It offers no dil reward and the drop is just abysmal. Yesterday I did 5 of them just to understand them, and all I saw were batteries and white mk x. Not to mention that I took my best pve escort build there (3x crtd3 polaron dhc, purple mk xi tac consoles and whatnot) and the mob is just incredibly buffed up for that level of play. So I swapped ES for TBR on my karfi and went back, it went smoother, but still I have to sit through the event for 20 minutes to only get 20 odd marks.
What I wonder is this the direction this game is taking? You're being forced into unimaginative grind because there's new artificial currency that's impossible to get otherwise. The drop in this grind is just abusmal, and there's no other way if you want to advance the starbase.
Seriously. Folks were screaming for new content, something challenging and interesting, and all they get is just grindhouse sweatshop with no loot? I mean Mechwarrior Online beta comes out in a week, new wow expansion in 8 weeks, new mmo's are forming up and some of them are reaching 250M accounts. Is this really the time to TRIBBLE off your playerbase like that? Seriously. The competition is out there and it is hungry and dangerous.
Now, I do understand that cryptic is not huge company with deep pockets and large resources, and a lot of things are put on hold for later, but seriously open your heart to your customers, show them some love and they'll pay you twice. Isn't it obvious?
I so have to agree with you, on the name calling, the communication the Dev's lack the lot of it. PWE is really driving this game into the ground especially when you look at the competition, if I was a gold and not the lifetimer that I am I would probably cancel the subscription and jump ship to SWTOR or one of the other MMO's out there atm.
Its also likely they want people spreading out and not hanging out in Nukara for the entirety of the fleet event.
Actually, a easy fix if they don't want players exceeding X marks earned a day. Hardcap it, when you hit that limit you can't earn anymore. So people can frenzy for a few hours, or take their time over a couple runs.
In a dev post just a few days ago it was stated that they are still working on an exchange rate for cxp to fleet marks. So where this rumor came from I dont know. I have 150k cxp in all but recruitment, and i doubt they are going to let me have several hundred marks just like that. This also is another thing on the "soon" list... so lets refresh everybody on the "soon" list.
Romulan Faction was a "soon" at one point
Finished Klingon Faction was at one point a "working on it" but later got moved to a "soon"
Improved Crafting System was also a "soon"
Improved PVP system yep that was a "soon" also, and even part of S6 as recently as a few months ago.
How are you enjoying the expanded sector maps? That was at one point a "soon" also but is now a "maybe"
How are you enjoying the new STFs we were promised as a "soon"
I sure have equipped all my BOFFs in mk XII gear from EDCs that was another "soon"
Oh and during development Fleet Starbases was also a "soon"..
So we have gotten 1/8 of this "soon" list. And i will agree that most of these "soon" promises were made while Atari was running the show. But the statements were made by Cryptic employees acting as game developers. Cryptic's definition of "soon" and the generally accepted definition of soon for the rest of the english speaking world seem to differ wildly here. I have learned not to hold my breath on anything cryptic says is coming "soon". It just like anything else they say is a hollow promise with little to no backing to it. They honestly think we are stupid that they tell us a good story we buy it and think its true.
Well as George W. Bush said "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice you are not going to fool me again"
The only people who are crying and whining are the people in small fleets - why? - Because it gave them false hope that they could build a starbase in a resonable amout of time - when the system was designed so that a fleet of 50ish people could be done in 7-8months
That's it - thats the whole issue - you got your hopes up that a small fleet could possibly get to Tier5 when it was made so that a micro fleet < 10 would NEVER reach tier 5
Nukara was your hope - and they pulled the rug out from that hope. That's it. Nothing else to it. You just have to accept the idea that small fleets where never to reach the Tier 5
Right from the get go if you knew the requirements - you would have known that a fleet under 5 active players should have hoped to get to tier 3 fully completed at BEST
Sorry to be blunt, but that is the way it is -no 1/2/3/4 person fleet should have a tier 5 base anyways - that's like building a 10 story office building for 5 employees
What they need to do is find another system so that small fleets - or solo players can build up FM and experience which they will then be able to spend at a "general" base for ships and gear after a min amount of time has passed
with this idea - everyone would eventually be able to buy the stuff they want if they have earned enough FM/xp
If you are in a fleet of less than 5 you were fooled or deluded into thinking you could have a tier 5 base in any reasonable time frame - get it out right now and you will feel better.
And its not only Cryptics fault - you knew that bases were to be long and next to impossible for small fleets to build - and if you were farming Nukara for 600 marks a event - while the others paid 10-50 you knew something was wrong! And now you are whinning because they have put an end to something that was not right - don't even go there and say you had no thoughts that it was to good to be true!
Nobody talks about reaching T5 in small fleets, folks won't be around that long
T2 seemed achievable and most folks are curious about some decent t2 ships and weapons, potentially better than current borg/dil store, but worse than pretty mk xii you can get from exchange.
May be some small fleets will grind it to T3 to get that mighty fleet defiantR, that seems interesting. But I seriously doubt, even thou we didn't see the resource requirements for T2->T3 projects yet but I assume them to be twice as much: 600 marks, 120 white doffs, 120k dil per 1k tier exp.
Small fleet folks like me want sensible and achievable reward for this endless grind that they have to suffer for a long period of time. That's what this thread is about. Bring the balance, adjust the cost, open the dialog.
Nukara was just the straw that broke the camels back, honestly.
And where was it ever stated that smaller fleets should never expect to reach Tier 5? Even with the nerfed Nukara missions it will still be possible to do eventually. So this seems like an assumption on your part.
Ok the word "never" should "never" be used as it is possible for a tiny fleet to reach T5 after a LLOOOOOOONNNNNGGGG time and a massive burden of grinding that would exhaust most human beings
and never implies my belief that there will be major changes - new stuff to buy - people leaving - company problems - etc etc before a tiny fleet would get there
Who knows in a year they maybe selling c-store ships that will make the Fleet ship obsolete!! And they probably will - so what was all the grinding for?? Its just like them in a year to come out with a c-store ship that is slightly better than the one you just spent 1000 hrs+ grinding for.
This. It was already far too difficult for smaller fleets to manage. This makes things drastically worse.
Seriously, whoever at Cryptic thought this up, I have two words for you... sadly I'm pretty sure the censoring software on the forums would catch the first one.
I wouldn't worry about it as apparently the exchange rate is so abhorrent that it really isn't worth worrying about. Talk is the exchange is 30,000CXP for 30FM.
The highest standard payoff rate for DOff assignments is about 50CXP/0.5hours. At that rate you'd have to run 600 assignments to run the exchange assignment once.
If you filled your 20 assignment slots (assuming you ignore all else, have the DOffs to run all of those assignments within a single category, and can find enough appropriate assignments to do it... which is a looooong shot and a waste) that would mean running 30 separate runs of 20 full assignments.
In other words in a best case (and highly unlikely) scenario you'd be looking at 15 hours to earn 30 Fleet Marks. So if you bust your butt and toss your entire DOff experience at this thing you might (but probably won't) earn about 2FM an hour.
And...
... that tribble alone should earn you 1FM an hour just for clicking it. So that should give you an idea of exactly how screwed up the Fleet Mark DOff Assignment payout is looking to be.
The rewards are attached to a time-gated event. One that you may miss entirely for days or weeks if it doesn't fall within your play time. The payouts SHOULD be substantially higher, that's the entire point of making it time-gated. If the payouts aren't massively higher then why gate it at all instead of having it open 24/7 like the other queued missions? And where's the incentive for players to rush out and participate when the event is active?
It will not. If you're lucky it won't only countdown while you're on the ground and might also countdown while you're in space. Though I wouldn't like to make bets there...
The "time requirements" are in stone via the project countdowns. Supposedly they put the minimum time gate on Star Bases at nine months. Generating Fleet Marks is no problem for larger fleets because even with cooldowns on top of cooldowns you can have hundreds of people contributing.
This just screws small fleets. Plain and simple. That's all it does.
No, we don't.
People like small Fleets because the people in the Fleet actually get to know each other and interact with each other on a regular basis. Some people don't want a large group of faceless nobodies, a mere list of unknown names with no actual connection beyond a few system mechanics.
The "rumour" is apparently more than a rumour as it's something that's been sourced back to a Dev in the DOff channel. Though it likely isn't set in stone, it gives you an idea of the "value" they're placing on CXP.
Beyond that, apparently you have to buy in increments, and the suggested one was 30,000. And you can't spend past the T4 cap. Which means that 100,000 of your CXP would be inaccessible, and you'd only have 50,000 to spend. Which means you'd get to run that DOff mission once to earn 30FM. Then you'd have to earn another 10,000CXP in that category to run the mission again.
And how much do you want to bet it's a two day mission, and has a cooldown, probably in the 24-48 hour range? Meaning you could only run it every three days or so anyways.
And this isn't supposed to be "soon" it was actually supposed to be implemented within an actual time frame that was actually soon. Since, you know, they already stated that Heretic finished the assignment prior to leaving and it just wasn't hooked up.
The mission is apparently done.
Opening a lockbox is like using a public restroom when u gotta poo.
You are just hoping nobody blew on the seat or that all the toilet paper is gone.
Saturday morning, I worked really hard, alternating my characters to avoid the cooldown, getting lucky with the Hive mission, and got 75 FM. I figutred that getting my Special Project, with its 600 FM requirement, would take a week or so of hard work.
Then, I stumbled onto these fleet events that they've added - 2 ground and 2 space 5-man missions, plus a 15 man mission. Here's the thing - There's no need for a "leader" to step up and call the action (aka -boss you around). There's no need to organize and coordinate strategies beforehand. In fact, there's seldom any talk at all. You zone in, attack the enemies together, and, 10-15 minutes later, you leave with 15-30 FMs! it's really easy, and fun.
In the last day and a half, I've picked up about 700 FMs, just from doing the colony invasion, the fleet alert, and the starbase incursion mission. In fact, I'm stuck right now, waiting for 2 Fleet projects to run through their 20 hour timer so I can get new missions to fill with my excess FMs!
Give these a try. I'm not a big fan of teaming, as I'm not such a great player, but the set-up they've got in place is very nice for "lone-wolf" players.
This right here! Agreed!
Being part of a small fleet, where everyone knows eachother.
That can easy run elite STFs and get optionals each time.
The bank is fully open to all the members because no one is gonna steal.
When leveling an alt you only have to ask once if anyone want to help and you get a full team. And when said alt is max level, people will gladly run elite STFs til that alt got the elite stf sets.
Thats still open to other players when they find some that fit in.
A group that actually play together, that actually help eachother.
We shouldn't have to invite a bunch of random unknowns just to be able to farm the needed amount of fleetmarks.
Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
Add FMs to ALL PvE content..
STFs - (5 for normal, 10 for elite) they already have a damn near hour long CD.. srsly.. would chucking 5-10 FMs at STF'ers REALLY break fleet advancement?
Starbase 24 - 5 FMs as there's no CD-- srsly.. FIVE fms.. isn't gonna break the system either
Starbase 24 Ground - YES -- BRING THIS BACK -- with 5 FMs
Breaking the Planet - 5 FMs (Might even get people to PLAY this event once in a while.. I did it a sum total of ONCE because it's a been there, done that no special reward kinda thing)
Episodic content/Diplo/Exploration - Come on.. like... 1-2 FMs per mission.. srsly.. how many times can you play The Doomsday Device over and over...
Gekli/Romulan Temple/any others I missed - 5 FMs -- same as SB24/Breaking - not gonna bust the system nearly as bad as unlimited grinding redshirts for 2 hours.
The Vault - 5 all day / 10 during marks event
PvP - probably not possible with current tech, but like.. 5 FMs for the winning team, 2 for the losing. PUGs only
All of the above is what I personally think should have happened at launch and in testing anyways, as you should really get marks for doing any kind of content, not just grinding FM events for the sake of getting FMs.. seriously I love doing many different things in this game, and like.. 17 FMs for one event with no other reward besides random TRIBBLE battery drops isn't exactly motivating. None of the above make the system particularly exploitable or even remotely as busted as farming redshirts.
15 pages in 2 days expressing customer dissatisfaction in polite and respectful manner. The playerbase is clearly unhappy. Let's just say that we all eagerly await cryptic to bless us with their eternal wisdom and power and change things for better.
i like this post, except for the STF's, 10 FM's for normal, and 20 for elite, simply because OF the cooldown, and a bonus during STF days of 50% more FM's
Starbase Incursion = ~60 marks per person
Colony Invasion = ~30 marks per person
Starbase Alert = 22 marks per person
Starbase Blockade = 50-60 marks per person (depending on how many engis, if orions spawn)
Total = 162-172 marks per person for about an hour's worth of investment
Team Total = 810-860 fleet marks
That total means you can fully invest in two projects, with another almost finished. And no, I will not count special projects because no small fleet in their right mind should do them. They are for large fleets to allow their members to gain fleet credits, not small fleets. And, this is just one fleet event--it happens twice a day, which means you can be set for a couple days with just one day of "grinding."
So you see, if an hour of investment gained ~160 marks per person, and people are claiming to have obtained 600 in an hour on Nukara...then yes, the "nerf" was warranted. It was grievously out of line with other fleet mark productions, and it does not hinder normal fleet mark generation. If your "small" fleet is less than five, oh well, but you can't honestly tell me that Nukara was balanced in relation to other fleet mark generators.
Mind you those are very optimistic nubmers, assuming you'll get a competent team in place for full 2 hours commitment. Small fleets do not have that luxury.
Go pug blockade fed side in the evening, you'll see what I'm talking about.
For me, I think the cooldowns fix is far to strict, more so for a zone where you can only earn fleet marks during the event (unlike the other FM events). My solution would of been to maybe add 5 minute cooldowns to the missions, this would be enough to actually slow down the generation quite alot, without making the wait to long, ontop of that, I would of adjusted the FM's awarded as well, perhaps havled them. that way players could still goto Nukara and farm for 2 hours and have fun. Right now these changes have just sucked all the fun out of that zone.