Soran was nuts...but I wish I could deliver the line "They say time is the fire in which we burn" just like MM did (on that, he was right, and Picard's waffle at the end...well, that = stupid. "Time is a companion", indeed).
Anyway, Generations was an odd numbered film; it was meant to be...'not very good'.
TNG daft things: Not Guinan, but her hats. If the show had run much longer, they'd have replaced the saucer section with one of those things.
And the last bit of 'Lonely Among Us'.
All this talk about Threshold being one of the worst, and I agree, but lets not forget one little tidbit of information, straight from the world renown Wikipedia, "Threshold" won the 1996 Emmy for Outstanding Individual Achievement in Makeup for a Series, beating out Star Trek: Deep Space Nine's "The Visitor."
What got me is that 2 years into trying to get home (you'd think they'd have made some progress in only going one direction for so long) that they're STILL fighting & fending off the Kazon. The Kazon Order must've spanned twice the Federation, Klingon Empire & Romulan Star Empire in territory.
Actually... yeah, Kazon space was vastly spread out. The race was too nomadic to have any sort of consolidated power base. They expanded to any territory they could take over.
Someone else already said it, but...Spock's Brain. It has to be just about the most stupid thing ever (and an almost criminal waste of talent).
But then, swathes of TOS s3 are a bit like that. Shatner's overacting and "I...am...KIROK!", anyone? Spectre of the Gun?
It worked for the Axis, the Allies were too afird to attack on land the Germans for years after the British Troops evacuated from Dunkirk and were too much in shock years later that they could not come up with a plan to free Europe.
..."Star Trek V"
There's a lot of stupid in this, but I think I'll settle for the plot hole that basically sets the whole movie off:
Kirk: "Why send us, this ship isn't ready! Half of it isn't working! We don't have a full crew etc."
Bob: "I need Jim Kirk out there."
So send him on a functional starship. Or send him as a mission specialist with someone else. And do you know what? He does nothing to justify his supposed necessity to the mission. All he does is make a sneak attack which basically fails.
I'll agree the movie was a Stinkaroo! However it has two redeeming features that, IMO, make up for all the rest. 1. Kirk asking, "What does God need with a starship" while everyone else is being... well... GOD struck heheheh. 2. Uhura dancing nude on a dune top... no more need be said! I'd watch the movie over and over just for those two things no matter HOW bad it stunk... and you're right... it STINKS (ROFL). (Don't forget the cartoon character Klingon ships captain who comes off more like a high school jock)
*STO*Its mission: To destroy strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations... and then kill them, to boldly annihilate what no one has annihilated before!
1: An achievement in makeup doesn't stop Threshold from being junk overall.
2: ST5 was saved, for me, by Kirk's backchat to 'God'. Wondering why God would need a starship is funny/cool in itself, but IMO it was bettered by "Who am I? Don't you know? Aren't you God?"
3: Back to Voyager. A big problem there was always Janeway (and why did we have to have a new character when we already had Shelby kicking her heels somewhere?)
70 years from home, it's sensible to look for advanced tech...but how many eps had something like:-
Janeway: Ooh, a planet! *gets carried away despite finding one practically every week*
Neelix: Ah yes. The people there are extremely xenophobic, Captain. They're also quite backward technologically, and their society isn't very nice at all.
Janeway: Hmm. Let's go anyway.
Neelix: Why do I bother? I'm supposed to be here for my local knowledge, but I'm always ignored. What is the point of me?
Tuvok: *raises eyebrow* Indeed, Mr Neelix.
(OK, the last couple of lines weren't usually overt, but they did creep in somewhere in the ep - often with Neelix whining to Kes and Tuvok questioning Neelix's presence generally. And then when Neelix knew no more...ah, why not use him as some kind of decoy when facing the Borg? Even though it would be a case of "We are the Borg *blah blah* You will be assim...Oh, it's you, Neelix. Forget that last bit.")
IMO the worst thing in Voyager was the moronic time loops.... temporal TRIBBLE does not invalidate the law of cause and effect. Everything has a cause! It might be in the future, but it's there somewhere!
the most stupid part of star trek has to have been DS9 when the Dominion war was in its full it seems everyone forgot where the shield button was you had Romulan warbirds blowing up left right and centre
what the hell happened did everyone get drunk before the battles and never realised their shields were down
Ketan Merious
Captain, U.S.S Transcendent
Explorers Fleet, Senior Member
"Reboot the franchise, but put Kirk & Co on the ship the way they were in TOS".
And worked backwards.
Whilst it was an enjoyable enough movie if you didn't overthink stuff like Kirk's insta-promotion, they really should've handled it better. And when he was arguing with Spock over what they should be doing after Vulcan was destroyed, Spock was actually right. Kirk, at that point had no means to get aboard the Narada and take it over as he suggested, and to attempt so would've been suicidal. It wasn't until they got Scotty's magic transporter formula that they could get aboard before the Enterprise was blown to bits.
Would it have killed them to finish the first movie with Pike, the only person with any sort of air of authority about him, still in command? And as part of the next movie, it's a few years up the line, he has an Admiral's promotion on his desk, and he's trying to pick between Kirk and Spock as the next captain? The movie would still be about Kirk and Spock (supposedly what everyone wants) and we wouldn't have the ridiculous field commission to end all ridiculous field commissions. And by the time Kirk earns the captaincy, it'd be believeable that the crew would trust him.
Rant over.
Please don't set me off on Enterprise. It'll be longer.
Speaking of the JJ ship, lets not forget the million watt lighting on the bridge.:rolleyes:
New home of the Romulan Republic.
I have an idea for what Season 11 should be; Season 11: The Big Bug Fix.
I have not been able to read my bug tickets in over a year, not even the tickets about not being able to see my tickets.
I find the drama of your signature proof of your immaturity, this means you, DR whiners.
I actually don't know what anyone's problems are with Enterprise.
But to each his own.
My problem with it is pretty straightforward. Its terrible.
I get that they are supposed to be new to exploring a bigger galaxy now that they can go faster and farther, but come on. The entirety of season one can be explained like this:
Play corn-ball opening theme....
Inhabited planet found/ship encountered in space
humans: "Think we should go look?"
t'pol: "no."
humans: "we're going to look!"
t'pol: "bad idea."
humans go look, whackiness ensues, everyone goes back to the ship
humans: "we F'd that up. Maybe in the last 100 years or so that we've known about aliens we should have thought out some procedure or policy to follow when we, ya know...run into them."
^And don't forget that would be presented in a way designed to make T'Pol (or Suval, or evil Vulcan of the day) look wrong and Archer & Co look right.
I could list out a lot of other little things that cause me to dislike Enterprise, but what finally killed my interest is that about mid-way through season 3, I realised I was watching a show about seven people who were either shallow cutouts with an average of one speaking line an episode, or dislikable and annoying.
And yes, I gave Season 4 a chance when I heard that Manny Coto had 'rescued' it, but it really wasn't any better.
It's occurred to me that photon torpedoes are too slow and it makes no sense to actually have to fire them. I mean, phasers knock down the shields, then you fire a torp, right?
So why not knock down the shields with phasers and then just beam two torps to the bridge and main engineering sections? Better than using a load just to disable the enemy ship, surely.
Oh, and just IMVHO, JJ-Trek isn't Trek. It might have the name and all, but it's actually got less in common with prime Trek than I have with the snails in my garden (at least our species actually evolved within the same system).
I've seen it. I thought it was very 'meh'. But the more I hear and think about it, the more anti I become. Sure, Voyager was stupid in all kinds of ways and Enterprise should never have been made (not as a prequel series, anyway), but...
And if it turns out to be true that Benedict CuCumberbatch is Khan...well. I'll see what I end up doing as I'm doing it. (Some folks say it's true, others say not...and last I heard the 'official' line was a denial that they were even doing a Khan movie.)
Well... Archer's crew did accomplish quite a lot while nearly getting killed on random planets. It's not like they beamed down and then commenced running for their lives until got back to the ship... I loved the arc with the "war" between the Andorians and Vulcans. I think it did a reasonably good job of showing what the area was like before the founding of the Federation.
Still though, if Manny Coto had been in charge of plotting seasons 1 and 2 they show would have been MUCH better. The Temporal Cold War wasn't a good idea, the Sphere Builders were better, but they were sort-of part of the Temporal cold war.
Dreadnought (the episode): So there's basically a practically sentient a Cardassian mega-bomb altered by Torres when she was in the Maquis that thinks it's still in the alpha quadrant. So it's headed to a planet of some random delta quadrant species. What's Janeway decided to do? Evacuate everyone and ram it. Ends up that Torres saves the day... but really? I mean come on, it couldn't be so powerful you can't break through its shields and defenses to destroy it without ramming it! You've got Starfleet's most advanced ship!
Bio-neural gel packs: They get sick. They get sick and suddenly half the ship stops working. Who thought it would be a good idea to make things essential to the ship that can get sick?
How many times did Voyager get taken over? Let me think. The Kazon, the Hirogen, some random species, people were kidnapped by holograms on several occaisions... I'm surprised they weren't taken over by delta quadrant Pakleds.
THRESHOLD nuff said
That's what I've got for now, I'll probably be back with more Voyager stuff.
It's occurred to me that photon torpedoes are too slow and it makes no sense to actually have to fire them. I mean, phasers knock down the shields, then you fire a torp, right?
So why not knock down the shields with phasers and then just beam two torps to the bridge and main engineering sections? Better than using a load just to disable the enemy ship, surely.
The transporter's generally not used in combat because you have to drop your own shields. Otherwise, you could disable an enemy's shield, and then beam their bridge and engineering staff straight to your brig and take control of their ship.
Although knowing Trek there are probably a couple of occassions where that restriction is ignored.
Star Trek: Voyager <---- The entire series front to back. The actual premise had great potential had they not abandoned a major element (Maqui vs Starfleet) about 3 eoisodes in. Also didn't care for the bipolar aspect of the way the Janeway character was written . IE One week she's ready to sacrifice ship and crew for the Federation Prime Directive; yet, the following week it's Prime Directive be damned as she won't lose another crewmember in the Delta Quadrant) <--- Pick a stance for the character and stick witnh it. I feel I gave this seies a fair shot as I watched teh entire first season, but after The 37's, I could take no more (really no ONE crewman - including the Maqui ones who were looking at a prison sentence on returning to Fed space - wanted gto stay behind on what was essentially an Earth colony? -- please.)
Star Trek V: The Total Embarrassment...er, I mean The Final Frontier. <--- And TOS is my first and foremost favorite Star Trek series too; but TRIBBLE is TRIBBLE, and STV was TRIBBLE.
Star Trek: Generations, Insurection, and Nemesis <--- Speaking of TRIBBLE; it's sad that in the TNG feature film era, we only had one out of four that was halfway decent, and didn't feel like a long tv episode.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Oh yes, what was the name of that wierd episode in TNG where there's this bug parasite thing that takes over people? It can be compared to Threshold where it started out good but went into an exponential downward curve. I mean, what's with the stupid claymation at the end then Riker and Picard blowing up a guy with phasers? And then this stupid little puppet queen-parasite-bug-thing comes out and... just a really bad episode at the end.
Although knowing Trek there are probably a couple of occassions where that restriction is ignored.
I know Scotty and LaForge get beamed up when their ship's shields are holding open the entrance to the Dyson Sphere the Enterprise D is trying to escape from.
Oh yes, what was the name of that wierd episode in TNG where there's this bug parasite thing that takes over people? It can be compared to Threshold where it started out good but went into an exponential downward curve. I mean, what's with the stupid claymation at the end then Riker and Picard blowing up a guy with phasers? And then this stupid little puppet queen-parasite-bug-thing comes out and... just a really bad episode at the end.
They were supposed to be a major enemy, and that message the dying Queen sends to the Delta Quadrant would summoning an invasion. What the message was supposed to summon became the Borg instead, and the parasites were quietly disavowed and ignored.
1. Giving a man who hates Star Trek the opportunity to direct a Star Trek movie.
2. CBS asking the people who make Star Trek: Phase II not to film "He Walked Among Us" after letting them film other episodes based on scripts that were rejected or canceled.
Comments
Anyway, Generations was an odd numbered film; it was meant to be...'not very good'.
TNG daft things: Not Guinan, but her hats. If the show had run much longer, they'd have replaced the saucer section with one of those things.
And the last bit of 'Lonely Among Us'.
My character Tsin'xing
What got me is that 2 years into trying to get home (you'd think they'd have made some progress in only going one direction for so long) that they're STILL fighting & fending off the Kazon. The Kazon Order must've spanned twice the Federation, Klingon Empire & Romulan Star Empire in territory.
Unrepentant Gaming : Risa Country Club : @Seneschall
My character Tsin'xing
Brain, brain. What is Brain??
........
......
Might wanna do some reading on the Second World War my friend.
As for the topic..the episode were Tasha gets killed off. I know the actress wanted to leave the show, but an oil slick? Really?
I'll agree the movie was a Stinkaroo! However it has two redeeming features that, IMO, make up for all the rest. 1. Kirk asking, "What does God need with a starship" while everyone else is being... well... GOD struck heheheh. 2. Uhura dancing nude on a dune top... no more need be said! I'd watch the movie over and over just for those two things no matter HOW bad it stunk... and you're right... it STINKS (ROFL). (Don't forget the cartoon character Klingon ships captain who comes off more like a high school jock)
I still think the part when they introduced the phaser was hilarious.
Early ENT was really weird. It shares a lot with VOY as it didn't really have a place to go, only without the budget.
2: ST5 was saved, for me, by Kirk's backchat to 'God'. Wondering why God would need a starship is funny/cool in itself, but IMO it was bettered by "Who am I? Don't you know? Aren't you God?"
3: Back to Voyager. A big problem there was always Janeway (and why did we have to have a new character when we already had Shelby kicking her heels somewhere?)
70 years from home, it's sensible to look for advanced tech...but how many eps had something like:-
Janeway: Ooh, a planet! *gets carried away despite finding one practically every week*
Neelix: Ah yes. The people there are extremely xenophobic, Captain. They're also quite backward technologically, and their society isn't very nice at all.
Janeway: Hmm. Let's go anyway.
Neelix: Why do I bother? I'm supposed to be here for my local knowledge, but I'm always ignored. What is the point of me?
Tuvok: *raises eyebrow* Indeed, Mr Neelix.
(OK, the last couple of lines weren't usually overt, but they did creep in somewhere in the ep - often with Neelix whining to Kes and Tuvok questioning Neelix's presence generally. And then when Neelix knew no more...ah, why not use him as some kind of decoy when facing the Borg? Even though it would be a case of "We are the Borg *blah blah* You will be assim...Oh, it's you, Neelix. Forget that last bit.")
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
what the hell happened did everyone get drunk before the battles and never realised their shields were down
Captain, U.S.S Transcendent
Explorers Fleet, Senior Member
"Reboot the franchise, but put Kirk & Co on the ship the way they were in TOS".
And worked backwards.
Whilst it was an enjoyable enough movie if you didn't overthink stuff like Kirk's insta-promotion, they really should've handled it better. And when he was arguing with Spock over what they should be doing after Vulcan was destroyed, Spock was actually right. Kirk, at that point had no means to get aboard the Narada and take it over as he suggested, and to attempt so would've been suicidal. It wasn't until they got Scotty's magic transporter formula that they could get aboard before the Enterprise was blown to bits.
Would it have killed them to finish the first movie with Pike, the only person with any sort of air of authority about him, still in command? And as part of the next movie, it's a few years up the line, he has an Admiral's promotion on his desk, and he's trying to pick between Kirk and Spock as the next captain? The movie would still be about Kirk and Spock (supposedly what everyone wants) and we wouldn't have the ridiculous field commission to end all ridiculous field commissions. And by the time Kirk earns the captaincy, it'd be believeable that the crew would trust him.
Rant over.
Please don't set me off on Enterprise. It'll be longer.
But to each his own.
I have an idea for what Season 11 should be; Season 11: The Big Bug Fix.
I have not been able to read my bug tickets in over a year, not even the tickets about not being able to see my tickets.
I find the drama of your signature proof of your immaturity, this means you, DR whiners.
My problem with it is pretty straightforward. Its terrible.
I get that they are supposed to be new to exploring a bigger galaxy now that they can go faster and farther, but come on. The entirety of season one can be explained like this:
Play corn-ball opening theme....
Inhabited planet found/ship encountered in space
humans: "Think we should go look?"
t'pol: "no."
humans: "we're going to look!"
t'pol: "bad idea."
humans go look, whackiness ensues, everyone goes back to the ship
humans: "we F'd that up. Maybe in the last 100 years or so that we've known about aliens we should have thought out some procedure or policy to follow when we, ya know...run into them."
t'pol: "told ya."
humans: "Oh well, lets go find more!"
t'pol looks unapprovingly at band of morons.
Roll credits
I could list out a lot of other little things that cause me to dislike Enterprise, but what finally killed my interest is that about mid-way through season 3, I realised I was watching a show about seven people who were either shallow cutouts with an average of one speaking line an episode, or dislikable and annoying.
And yes, I gave Season 4 a chance when I heard that Manny Coto had 'rescued' it, but it really wasn't any better.
So why not knock down the shields with phasers and then just beam two torps to the bridge and main engineering sections? Better than using a load just to disable the enemy ship, surely.
Oh, and just IMVHO, JJ-Trek isn't Trek. It might have the name and all, but it's actually got less in common with prime Trek than I have with the snails in my garden (at least our species actually evolved within the same system).
I've seen it. I thought it was very 'meh'. But the more I hear and think about it, the more anti I become. Sure, Voyager was stupid in all kinds of ways and Enterprise should never have been made (not as a prequel series, anyway), but...
And if it turns out to be true that Benedict CuCumberbatch is Khan...well. I'll see what I end up doing as I'm doing it. (Some folks say it's true, others say not...and last I heard the 'official' line was a denial that they were even doing a Khan movie.)
Still though, if Manny Coto had been in charge of plotting seasons 1 and 2 they show would have been MUCH better. The Temporal Cold War wasn't a good idea, the Sphere Builders were better, but they were sort-of part of the Temporal cold war.
My character Tsin'xing
Dreadnought (the episode): So there's basically a practically sentient a Cardassian mega-bomb altered by Torres when she was in the Maquis that thinks it's still in the alpha quadrant. So it's headed to a planet of some random delta quadrant species. What's Janeway decided to do? Evacuate everyone and ram it. Ends up that Torres saves the day... but really? I mean come on, it couldn't be so powerful you can't break through its shields and defenses to destroy it without ramming it! You've got Starfleet's most advanced ship!
Bio-neural gel packs: They get sick. They get sick and suddenly half the ship stops working. Who thought it would be a good idea to make things essential to the ship that can get sick?
How many times did Voyager get taken over? Let me think. The Kazon, the Hirogen, some random species, people were kidnapped by holograms on several occaisions... I'm surprised they weren't taken over by delta quadrant Pakleds.
THRESHOLD nuff said
That's what I've got for now, I'll probably be back with more Voyager stuff.
The transporter's generally not used in combat because you have to drop your own shields. Otherwise, you could disable an enemy's shield, and then beam their bridge and engineering staff straight to your brig and take control of their ship.
Although knowing Trek there are probably a couple of occassions where that restriction is ignored.
Star Trek V: The Total Embarrassment...er, I mean The Final Frontier. <--- And TOS is my first and foremost favorite Star Trek series too; but TRIBBLE is TRIBBLE, and STV was TRIBBLE.
Star Trek: Generations, Insurection, and Nemesis <--- Speaking of TRIBBLE; it's sad that in the TNG feature film era, we only had one out of four that was halfway decent, and didn't feel like a long tv episode.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I know Scotty and LaForge get beamed up when their ship's shields are holding open the entrance to the Dyson Sphere the Enterprise D is trying to escape from.
They were supposed to be a major enemy, and that message the dying Queen sends to the Delta Quadrant would summoning an invasion. What the message was supposed to summon became the Borg instead, and the parasites were quietly disavowed and ignored.
Riker: Increase to Warp 6.
Geordie: Aye sir, full impulse.
You don't like long episodes of TNG??
1. Giving a man who hates Star Trek the opportunity to direct a Star Trek movie.
2. CBS asking the people who make Star Trek: Phase II not to film "He Walked Among Us" after letting them film other episodes based on scripts that were rejected or canceled.