i hate having all this spare STF EDC's and Gear that i dont need and would rather give to someone in my fleet that actually needs it or at least one of my own chars that needs it , bound stuff is bad M'kay
Ok put it this way, being able to transfer tech or at least EDCs could have possible gotten me back on my KDFs toons. Now with the announcement that tech and EDCs will not be account bound I will most likely not be playing my KDF toons any time soon.
Also with that annoucement my average STF per night has gone from 9 to 3. I have been signing off a lot sooner then usual 8pm instead of the usual 11pm. I was happy grinding for gear on one toon because Tech and EDCs were going to be made account bound. Now with the annoucement that they will not be account bound I have lost my desire to even be in STO.
With a grind system yes you keep users playing, but those users are also less likely to level additional toons. In turn less likely to buy stuff for those toons off the CStore. The less toons a user has the less likely they will feel an attachment to the MMO.
Many users have invested a lot of time into multiple toons. I have 9 toons and will not be grinding all them up in STF Gear, so those toons at some point in the future will most likely deleted because the grind is unattractive and the less amount of toons we have in STO the less I will feel attached to the MMO.
Yes grinds are needed in MMOs but to much of a grind equals developer shooting themselves in the foot.
Ok put it this way, being able to transfer tech or at least EDCs could have possible gotten me back on my KDFs toons. Now with the announcement that tech and EDCs will not be account bound I will most likely not be playing my KDF toons any time soon.
Also with that annoucement my average STF per night has gone from 9 to 3. I have been signing off a lot sooner then usual 8pm instead of the usual 11pm. I was happy grinding for gear on one toon because Tech and EDCs were going to be made account bound. Now with the annoucement that they will not be account bound I have lost my desire to even be in STO.
With a grind system yes you keep users playing, but those users are also less likely to level additional toons. In turn less likely to buy stuff for those toons off the CStore. The less toons a user has the less likely they will feel an attachment to the MMO.
Many users have invested a lot of time into multiple toons. I have 9 toons and will not be grinding all them up in STF Gear, so those toons at some point in the future will most likely deleted because the grind is unattractive and the less amount of toons we have in STO the less I will feel attached to the MMO.
Yes grinds are needed in MMOs but to much of a grind equals developer shooting themselves in the foot.
^^^^ This, OMG this! ^^^^
It is almost as if they want us to get rid of our other toons, or not to play at all...
There are exceptions, but they are rare. Do you consider all other single player games utterly horrible?
There is a big difference, though, between single player games and MMOs. Very few single player games require a grind, and almost none force you into a single global difficulty setting. No, I can't transfer gear between my characters in Skyrim or Fallout... but I'm also not required to run a single mission hundreds of times on the hope of a random drop. In these types of games, the best gear is typically a quest-specific reward... you know exactly what is required, you do it once, you get the gear.
Furthermore, 99% of single-player games have difficulty settings for those who don't want to have to grind to get the best gear. Borderlands or Diablo are good examples (both of which you can transfer items, btw)... while there is grinding required for the best gear, you have choices about what difficulty setting you play the game on. So if you want to, for fun, try out another character, but don't want to spend hours upon hours grinding that character, you can drop the difficulty down and just "play around" with a different skilltype.
...I do understand the point of view coming from the people saying "The grind is what keeps MMOs alive and people playing." I tend to agree that it is a huge factor, but you're missing the more important driver: FUN. Fun is what keeps a game going; you can have all the grinding in the world and if people aren't enjoying themselves they won't continue to play. It's FUN to get with a group and pick out your classes for an STF... maybe this time I'll be the Eng or Sci instead of my normal Tac. Or maybe I'll show off this new character I made, because he looks really cool. Or maybe I feel like roleplaying a little and have a new liberated Borg VA who wants to take the fight back to the Borg... all those things are fun to a lot of people. Why not make it easier for them to do that? But if I have to spend just as much time getting my Eng and Sci STF-ready as I did my Tac... forget it. I'll just play my Tac and my experience will get stale long before it would've with account-bound EDCs.
In the end, Cryptic makes more money if they let STF drops be account bound. People will have more fun, and will play- and pour money in- longer. People will be encouraged- rather than discouraged- from making alts, which involves buying character slots, and potentially spending more money on single-player unlocks like DOff slots. People will be more likely to go gold to get the account bank to more easily share their loot.
Hell, Cryptic, if you were smart, you'd make these things ACCOUNT bound, but un-tradeable and un-mailable. Think of how many people would upgrade just to be able to drop all their EDCs and Borg Tech into their bank.
...But maybe you're not smart. And maybe you don't care about the players. And decisions like this suck some of the fun out of the game and shorten the lifespan.
In the end, Cryptic makes more money if they let STF drops be account bound. People will have more fun, and will play- and pour money in- longer. People will be encouraged- rather than discouraged- from making alts, which involves buying character slots, and potentially spending more money on single-player unlocks like DOff slots. People will be more likely to go gold to get the account bank to more easily share their loot.
Hell, Cryptic, if you were smart, you'd make these things ACCOUNT bound, but un-tradeable and un-mailable. Think of how many people would upgrade just to be able to drop all their EDCs and Borg Tech into their bank.
...But maybe you're not smart. And maybe you don't care about the players. And decisions like this suck some of the fun out of the game and shorten the lifespan.
Agree completely.
The more of a grind there is the less likely I will want to make a new toon or even work on an older one.
There is a big difference, though, between single player games and MMOs. Very few single player games require a grind, and almost none force you into a single global difficulty setting. No, I can't transfer gear between my characters in Skyrim or Fallout... but I'm also not required to run a single mission hundreds of times on the hope of a random drop. In these types of games, the best gear is typically a quest-specific reward... you know exactly what is required, you do it once, you get the gear.
That doesn't change the fact that the top gear in most MMO's (which do have grinds of various levels) is also bound.
Note I am not justifying the drop rates. That is a separate debate.
My big push, like I say, would be for level scaling gear to be account bound.
Most of that caps off at Mk X effectiveness so it isn't all THAT useful at endgame.
As far as I can think of, that's:
The stun phaser from City on the Edge.
Shard Sword of Kahless.
Ghostbusters gun.
C-Store lirpas/bat'leths.
Spinal-Wave weapons.
White quality TOS pistol.
Blue quality Bajoran pistol.
C-Store consoles.
If the game is supposed to begin at endgame, twinking alts should absolutely be an option. Most of these indicate a higher level alt already.
Umm just claim the c-store stuff, why would that need to be account bound when you already have access to it on every character? The mission reward stuff... do the mission... The Spiral Wave weapons.. if the ship isn't account bound I don't think the weapons should be.. and I have a galor. The lobi and the requisitions are the things they need to make account bound.
That doesn't change the fact that the top gear in most MMO's (which do have grinds of various levels) is also bound.
Well, I can't really speak to that. I don't play a ton of MMOs. I'm a married father, so my gaming time isn't what it was back in college... I tried STO because I like Star Trek, and it's really not "grind-heavy" until you start trying for STO loot. LVL 50 is pretty easy, even for a part-timer.
If the game is supposed to begin at endgame, twinking alts should absolutely be an option. Most of these indicate a higher level alt already.
c-Store ships (and thus consoles) are already account wide.
It takes pretty much no effort to get to endgame. What seems to be being discussed is tossing STF drops on alts, which is not getting them to the start of endgame but to the finish.
What seems to be being discussed is tossing STF drops on alts, which is not getting them to the start of endgame but to the finish.
And I guess it depends on your point of view of what "endgame" is.
To me, "endgame" doesn't die with a new character... alts are a PART of the endgame... experiencing something a little different, trying new ships, new races, etc... but not an entirely separate game in and of themselves.
So from my perspective, running STFs is all part of one big "endgame," not just the endgame of that particular character. What's wrong with asking for a little flexibility in the way I play my endgame? Either way, I've still got to have multiple characters, and run hundreds of STFs, but if I enjoy it a lot more by not having to worry about "well, this character doesn't need any shield drops, but this character has extra deflectors..." then why is that such a bad thing?
To be fair, he could've been talking about going cross-faction with C-Store consoles. Moving your PDS to a Bird of Prey, for example.
Wouldn't that bring up additional balancing concerns? If they wanted that to be possible, they could already have made all c-store ships cross faction.
c-Store ships (and thus consoles) are already account wide.
It takes pretty much no effort to get to endgame. What seems to be being discussed is tossing STF drops on alts, which is not getting them to the start of endgame but to the finish.
They're accountwide but can't be used by alts below the minimum level to claim the ship they're attached to.
Again, intended. Making them account bound would be getting around that, as well as allowing them to be stacked.
It wouldn't allow them to be stacked. You can own multiples now. They're unique-equipped when intended to be...
And the ability to have an edge on a SECOND (or third or fifth, etc.) alt is not really that far off because leveling is not supposed to be all that balanced. The game begins at level 50.
It wouldn't allow them to be stacked. You can own multiples now. They're unique-equipped when intended to be...
And the ability to have an edge on a SECOND (or third or fifth, etc.) alt is not really that far off because leveling is not supposed to be all that balanced. The game begins at level 50.
Then why not scrap the gear ranking and make rank XII usable from level 1? Or at least rank X? Why not allow use of VA ships right from level 1?
"The game begins at 50" is a catch phrase, nothing more, and it isn't like leveling is slow at the moment.
Wouldn't that bring up additional balancing concerns? If they wanted that to be possible, they could already have made all c-store ships cross faction.
I'm not making a value judgement on the idea either way, I was just offering up an example of how C-Store consoles could be used differently if they were account-bound instead of character bound.
Also, they wouldn't necessarily be stackable... take the DS9 bundle, for example. You can discard the items and reclaim it, but if you try to do so without discarding them, the game tells you that you cannot have two of a unique item in your inventory.
Comments
Actually, it's already possible to trade them in for dilithium, then using the Dilithium exchange, consolidate it on one toon.
It's a moot point.
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
Ore is useless unless refined. Hence the whole 8000/day limit thing.
If this was a single player game, would you expect to be able to trade your gear from a prior play through to an entirely new character?
If they lived in the same world and are able to communicate with each other. Yes.
And many single player games have unlocks given to other characters once you meet a certain objective.
Join Date: Sept 2008
"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
Also with that annoucement my average STF per night has gone from 9 to 3. I have been signing off a lot sooner then usual 8pm instead of the usual 11pm. I was happy grinding for gear on one toon because Tech and EDCs were going to be made account bound. Now with the annoucement that they will not be account bound I have lost my desire to even be in STO.
With a grind system yes you keep users playing, but those users are also less likely to level additional toons. In turn less likely to buy stuff for those toons off the CStore. The less toons a user has the less likely they will feel an attachment to the MMO.
Many users have invested a lot of time into multiple toons. I have 9 toons and will not be grinding all them up in STF Gear, so those toons at some point in the future will most likely deleted because the grind is unattractive and the less amount of toons we have in STO the less I will feel attached to the MMO.
Yes grinds are needed in MMOs but to much of a grind equals developer shooting themselves in the foot.
^^^^ This, OMG this! ^^^^
It is almost as if they want us to get rid of our other toons, or not to play at all...
yes, I did that with Diablo and Baldurs Gate.
This is such a bad decision, but what do we expect from a company with a long history of bad decisions.
NO way in hell it can be exploitable if it is just account bound.
More bad decisions made by people who play the game as a chore.
As others said, I guess I will not be playing STFs much more with many of my toons, whats the friggin point!
There are exceptions, but they are rare. Do you consider all other single player games utterly horrible?
So pretty much every MMO out there is horrible?
There is a big difference, though, between single player games and MMOs. Very few single player games require a grind, and almost none force you into a single global difficulty setting. No, I can't transfer gear between my characters in Skyrim or Fallout... but I'm also not required to run a single mission hundreds of times on the hope of a random drop. In these types of games, the best gear is typically a quest-specific reward... you know exactly what is required, you do it once, you get the gear.
Furthermore, 99% of single-player games have difficulty settings for those who don't want to have to grind to get the best gear. Borderlands or Diablo are good examples (both of which you can transfer items, btw)... while there is grinding required for the best gear, you have choices about what difficulty setting you play the game on. So if you want to, for fun, try out another character, but don't want to spend hours upon hours grinding that character, you can drop the difficulty down and just "play around" with a different skilltype.
...I do understand the point of view coming from the people saying "The grind is what keeps MMOs alive and people playing." I tend to agree that it is a huge factor, but you're missing the more important driver: FUN. Fun is what keeps a game going; you can have all the grinding in the world and if people aren't enjoying themselves they won't continue to play. It's FUN to get with a group and pick out your classes for an STF... maybe this time I'll be the Eng or Sci instead of my normal Tac. Or maybe I'll show off this new character I made, because he looks really cool. Or maybe I feel like roleplaying a little and have a new liberated Borg VA who wants to take the fight back to the Borg... all those things are fun to a lot of people. Why not make it easier for them to do that? But if I have to spend just as much time getting my Eng and Sci STF-ready as I did my Tac... forget it. I'll just play my Tac and my experience will get stale long before it would've with account-bound EDCs.
In the end, Cryptic makes more money if they let STF drops be account bound. People will have more fun, and will play- and pour money in- longer. People will be encouraged- rather than discouraged- from making alts, which involves buying character slots, and potentially spending more money on single-player unlocks like DOff slots. People will be more likely to go gold to get the account bank to more easily share their loot.
Hell, Cryptic, if you were smart, you'd make these things ACCOUNT bound, but un-tradeable and un-mailable. Think of how many people would upgrade just to be able to drop all their EDCs and Borg Tech into their bank.
...But maybe you're not smart. And maybe you don't care about the players. And decisions like this suck some of the fun out of the game and shorten the lifespan.
Agree completely.
The more of a grind there is the less likely I will want to make a new toon or even work on an older one.
That doesn't change the fact that the top gear in most MMO's (which do have grinds of various levels) is also bound.
Note I am not justifying the drop rates. That is a separate debate.
My big push, like I say, would be for level scaling gear to be account bound.
Most of that caps off at Mk X effectiveness so it isn't all THAT useful at endgame.
As far as I can think of, that's:
The stun phaser from City on the Edge.
Shard Sword of Kahless.
Ghostbusters gun.
C-Store lirpas/bat'leths.
Spinal-Wave weapons.
White quality TOS pistol.
Blue quality Bajoran pistol.
C-Store consoles.
If the game is supposed to begin at endgame, twinking alts should absolutely be an option. Most of these indicate a higher level alt already.
Umm just claim the c-store stuff, why would that need to be account bound when you already have access to it on every character? The mission reward stuff... do the mission... The Spiral Wave weapons.. if the ship isn't account bound I don't think the weapons should be.. and I have a galor. The lobi and the requisitions are the things they need to make account bound.
Dec/2008
c-Store ships (and thus consoles) are already account wide.
It takes pretty much no effort to get to endgame. What seems to be being discussed is tossing STF drops on alts, which is not getting them to the start of endgame but to the finish.
To me, "endgame" doesn't die with a new character... alts are a PART of the endgame... experiencing something a little different, trying new ships, new races, etc... but not an entirely separate game in and of themselves.
So from my perspective, running STFs is all part of one big "endgame," not just the endgame of that particular character. What's wrong with asking for a little flexibility in the way I play my endgame? Either way, I've still got to have multiple characters, and run hundreds of STFs, but if I enjoy it a lot more by not having to worry about "well, this character doesn't need any shield drops, but this character has extra deflectors..." then why is that such a bad thing?
So just keep a crappy system because it is the "norm"
Hmm..
Wouldn't that bring up additional balancing concerns? If they wanted that to be possible, they could already have made all c-store ships cross faction.
They're accountwide but can't be used by alts below the minimum level to claim the ship they're attached to.
Again, intended. Making them account bound would be getting around that, as well as allowing them to be stacked.
not even a "Added to my list of feedback" by Branflakes?!?!
i guess they just want to ignore it.
It wouldn't allow them to be stacked. You can own multiples now. They're unique-equipped when intended to be...
And the ability to have an edge on a SECOND (or third or fifth, etc.) alt is not really that far off because leveling is not supposed to be all that balanced. The game begins at level 50.
Then why not scrap the gear ranking and make rank XII usable from level 1? Or at least rank X? Why not allow use of VA ships right from level 1?
"The game begins at 50" is a catch phrase, nothing more, and it isn't like leveling is slow at the moment.
I'm not making a value judgement on the idea either way, I was just offering up an example of how C-Store consoles could be used differently if they were account-bound instead of character bound.
Also, they wouldn't necessarily be stackable... take the DS9 bundle, for example. You can discard the items and reclaim it, but if you try to do so without discarding them, the game tells you that you cannot have two of a unique item in your inventory.