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How to spec your Escort for DPS in STF's

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  • xgorillapxxgorillapx Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Yes, and they are an inexpensive way for people to get antiproton weapons that take advantage of the easily obtained obelisk 2-pc bonus.
  • xgorillapxxgorillapx Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Added information for shield refrequencers. The ShHP and ShReg ones are nice, especially as easy as you can get them.
  • earwigvr6earwigvr6 Member Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Do the Embassy consoles stack the 9.6% Plasma damage ?
  • xgorillapxxgorillapx Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I would have to check, but it seemed to me that those consoles were best suited for those that weren't using plasma weapons, as it would give people the plasma proic without actually using them. For example, I am using the shield emitter console on my escort that is using Borg Anti-Proton weapons.This gives me an Anti-Proton and plasma proc, which is pretty nice.
  • xgorillapxxgorillapx Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I added some information at the end regarding some of the fleet consoles and gear available. With the Obelisk 2-pc set and its +10% AP bonus, it's hard not to go with AntiProton weapons, especially with the Embassy consoles that give you the plasma proc with them.
    While many starting off, will have to settle on the Voth AP weapons, since they're significantly cheaper, it's still not a bad way to go for them.
  • robdmcrobdmc Member Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I was looking at some of the builds for the tac heavy ships like the Defiant and the Kumari and and though that it might be worth looking into a slight change. In the past a 4 dhc defiant build seemed impractical to some due to the unused ensign slot. At the time those debates were happening people did notice in parces that 4 dhc had more dps then 3 with a torp/dbb combo.

    I believe the [Omni-Directional Antiproton Beam Array [Acc] [Dmg] [Arc]] solved a few of these issues even on a starter budget build. That is because this beam array does work with beam overload.

    With Voth weapons still being easily accessible, this is a sample of a defiant build someone could do right away. This allows for the high sustained dps of 4 cannons and spike damage of beam overload but from the aft with the usual power drain mumbo jumbo. All boffs are effectively used as well.
  • xgorillapxxgorillapx Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Yeah, I definitely need ot update the ship builds. I haven't updated those in quite some time.

    I've been considering how I should do them. Either with the basic consoles as most people who need the advice are some of the newer players, or if I should use the reputation/STF and fleet consoles/weapons in the builds as those will provide the best damage output.
  • bpharmabpharma Member Posts: 2,022
    edited January 2014
    Perhaps different versions like:

    Basic - all cheap gear
    Fleet access - same as basic but fleet stuff where applicable.
    Money is no object - kinda self explanatory, where these builds have some of the best doffs ec can buy along with awesome gear that is all top of the line.

    It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
    A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

    Has damage got out of control?
    This is the last thing I will post.
  • xgorillapxxgorillapx Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Yeah I could do that, it would be pretty time consuming though.
    I think I will just do the advanced ones, as I explained the recommended gear for basic/cost-effective builds with basic gear in the thread.
  • xgorillapxxgorillapx Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Scratch that. I think I'm just going to go with the cheap/basic builds as the idea/premise really stays the same. With the fleet gear, you're really just getting better versions of the basic gear. Not to mention, they keep coming out with new weapon types and console types, so I will make mention of those in the OP, but keep the builds basic.
  • norobladnoroblad Member Posts: 2,624 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I know I am the new guy, but a few things stood out as odd. Maybe my thinking is wrong, but here goes....

    First, the reason for a DBB in front is purely for overload 3 spike. Whether you buy into that or not, that is the reason you might do it. A beam array or other junker makes no sense though, I agree with most of your logic but 1 DBB has merits.

    I personally find that turrets give low dps for the power. I would rather have 4 or 5 cannons up front (whether you call a 5 gun ship an escort or not, they are dps tac ships anyway) than 3 turrets sucking power out my rear for low damage. One turret is useful to clear away incoming projectiles etc, sometimes, and 4 up front escort can feed 1 more in the back, a 5 up front maybe not.

    Mines fire forward from the rear, effectively, that is, they can hit a target in front of you if you are close to it. Whether you want to get that close depends on the target, of course, but for structures, they can be nice if you have a dispersal pattern handy.

    Escorts turn fast, or do fly-by strafes, ... SLOW reload heavy damage torps in the aft can be used with a quick 360 or fly-by for a big damage spike while your weapon power recovers after that beam overload .... again, its an alternative way to play, I often slot the breen back there.

    so I guess my complaint is largely your weapon layout -- I would suggest 4 real weapons up front, and the aft depends on the playstyle or targets, could be anything from tractor mines to breen torp clusters, might be 1 turret, whatever -- the key is to not hog power with a bunch of turrets forcing the use of a torp up front, and the result of that should be more "damage delivered per point of power used", which should be more total dps. If somehow you have the power for 4 up front AND 3 turrets, well, my gear is not that good yet :)
  • xgorillapxxgorillapx Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Such beliefs often make sense to newcomers, but such builds are inefficient. Among experienced players, it is correctly accepted that cannons and turrets are to be used for maximum damage on an escort.
    The only occasional argument is
    A - what is better, dual cannons vs dual heavy cannons. (DHC's slightly better but DC's much cheaper)
    B - Using a 3rd turret vs kinetic cutting beam in the rear.
    C - Higher level rapid fire/scatter volley with low level attack pattern Beta vs lower level rapid fire/scatter volley with higher level attack pattern beta.

    Escorts are fast and should be firing forward most of the time, ESPECIALLY in STF's. The only rear weapon that will help during those forward facing times are turrets. They also take advantage of rapid fire and scatter volley which all escorts should be using (beams do not). The dual beam banks do not.
    To use a dual beam bank, you would be using a lower powered weapon in the front that would take away from a rapid fire/scatter volley firing dual heavy cannon, in order to use it with beam overload 3, which is taking even more damage away by using a valuable tactical slot for beam overload 3 instead or rapid fire 2, scatter volley2, torp spread3, High yield 3 APB2, etc. Overall, not efficient.
    Torps in the rear are only useful for slower turning ships. Especially since in STF's, with the proper gear, "Strafing runs" are not used. You can just stay stationary and blast your target within the 45-degree firing arc where all of your cannons and turrets are firing with rapid fire/scatter volley.
  • xgorillapxxgorillapx Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Added Jem'Hadar Dreadnought personal advanced build

    Added T'Varo Light Warbird Retrofit basic build

    Added boff trait and updated sto.gamepedia wiki page.
  • robdmcrobdmc Member Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    @noroblad

    I can see why you feel that way but there are a few things to consider when it comes to stfs. the borg do not move that much. DHC are actually pretty easy on weapons power.The reason why we use turrets in the back is because mines and beams do now share firing arcs. Turrets also benefit from cannon abilities like scatter volley and rapid fire.

    When you can have all your tac consoles boost all your weapons and a single boff ability boost all your weapons there is usually pretty good damage. The Problem with dispersal patterns is that they only effect one weapon at launch and there is is a chance that the npcs will not run into them. dispersal pattern is also an "upper ability" and has to share space with a cannon ability or an attack pattern that has duration making the cost of that ability a bit too high.

    Weapons power can also be adjusted with abilities like emergency power to weapons and that last for 30 seconds and comes with a damage boost.

    If you are looking for other interesting topics I recommend looking into power overcap and resists
  • norobladnoroblad Member Posts: 2,624 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Thanks guys. I figured that out with the beam array already (power loss is not worth the spike in most situations) but I often see folks saying to go that route and I tried it (wasted a BO3 guy... sigh) briefly. Maybe its a pvp stunt.

    I will have to put the turrets back on and see if I can power them, they were draining me dry before, but my gear keeps improving and my rep levels are getting close. I fear my tac was my first char and it is messed up rather badly ...
  • edited January 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • xgorillapxxgorillapx Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Please be sure to look at the skill tree on some of the basic builds.
    Also please be sure to look at the bonuses on some of the basic gear. Those can make a big difference for you as you're leveling up.

    Please go to the link below, enter your current build/skill information, then save and share here. I'd be happy to make some recommendations. I could make the recommended changes, then re-link the build so it will be easier to follow.

    For now, I would recommend looking at the following build. (You can use common sense to adapt it to whatever you're using now) It's perfect for those just starting with STF's who don't have any STF gear yet. It will keep you alive and get you through, until you can get better stuff.

    http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=gorillapbeginnerpatrolescortstf2_2596
  • robdmcrobdmc Member Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    noroblad wrote: »
    Maybe its a pvp stunt.

    Not entirely. In PvP they like BO3 because it is the spike damage that usually kills you. Most npc's would die from it as well but in stf the borg have inflated health. Suddenly that 80k spike is not going to kill a tac cube with 1.7 mil hp. Now we are looking more to sustained damage. A setup into spike usually takes a bit away from sustained.
  • tggrinctggrinc Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    .....Please forgive me if I repeat anything that's been stated before or mis-state anything from the OP. It was a LONG op and there are a lot of replies.

    .....I am basing my comments on the first build linked.
    This one: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...rolEscort_2596


    .....No disrespect intended but did you run this setup through a parser? I find it hard to believe that this build would generate anything close to 10k dps on it's best day.
    .....I've run setups with all DHC's and turrets, more tactical slots, and more damage bonuses than this one. They only produced around 7-9k dps.

    .....From a pure DPS standpoint plasma DHCs with [critH]x3 will produce more damage. I have the anitproton borg set from before the reputation scheme. They are outperformed by much of what is avail now.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    The build:
    .....You're using the omega plasma torp instead of the cutting beam. You're giving up a DHC up front. The DHC produces more dps than the torp. You can drop the torp and put the cutting beam in the rear. Which essentially trades a turret for a DHC. And, in my experience, the cutting beam produces more dps than the single turret it replaces anyway.

    .....This also allows you to drop the single tac console dedicated to the torp.

    .....The borg set gives you more power bonuses than the Maco set. Plus 5 to engines, aux, and shield settings. And it gives far more healing than anything else you can equip. in my parsing the only thing that provides more healing than the borg set is my Aux 2 SIF. And that runs every 15 seconds.

    .....Not to mention the free tractor beam which also does 7k bonus kinetic damage to any target that you just hit with the cutting beam.

    .....I still run the obelisk warp core and the anti-proton array. The core gives you a free shield battery with a bonus to your aux power setting. The array consistently produces as much or more dps than the single turret it replaces. (That includes the output of the turret with CSV.)

    .....If you use 3 neutronium consoles, you can achieve the same defense rating against ALL damage that you now have only in kinetic, plasma, and tetryon.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Boff's:
    .....You can't run two TT's and an Eng team and a Sci team.

    .....Keep the two TT's. Run them continuously.

    .....Swap RSP for Aux2SIF. It runs every 15 secs and will provide continuous healing and resistance buffs.

    .....Swap the Eng team for EP2W or EP2S. You can actually run two EP2W and run them continuously, but it might be a little fragile for some players. In which case you can pair one EP2S with one EP2W or run two EP2S continuously.

    .....Drop Sci team for HE1 and drop HE2 for TSS II. Shield strength is more important than hull health. HE is primarily for removing debuff's and plasma dot.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Skill points:

    .....No need for skill points in Driver coil. Put a Borg assimilated engine in your inventory to get the same or better sector speed bonus without wasting skill points in an area that does not benefit your combat abilities at all. If you don't use the Borg engine in combat, keep it in your inventory and swap it out with a simple double click when you are in sector space.

    .....Skill points in engine performance are not necessary for an escort. They already have more mobility than you need in an ESTF. And those are expensive skill points compared to other areas.
    .....Starship impulse thrusters is similarly expendable.

    .....Starship maneuvers is not maxed out but targeting systems is. Having strong passive defense ratings allows you to focus on damage output, and not worry much with healing abilities. Accuracy isn't really a factor in ESTF's. You biggest targets are stationary or slow moving. The smaller targets that do move don't move around fast enough for my accuracy rate to drop below 98%.
    .....If you're not going to max out both maneuvers and targeting systems, I'd definitely choose maneuvers over targeting. But why not do both?

    .....Subsystem repairs is almost categorically ignored. It's benefits are questionable and unmeasurable. The obelisk core gives you a boost there anyway.

    .....Swapping the torp for the cutting beam would allow you to drop any investment in projectile weapons and put those points in energy weapon spec. I would prob skip the weapon performance and put that in armor, then aux performance, with only leftover points in weapon performance. Your going to be running 100% weapon power anyway.

    .....The Borg's lean heavily on weapon drains and holds. And escorts depend heavily on mobility. Power insulators and inertial dampeners should be at least x6.

    .....DHC's are the most efficient power users but if you had any skill points left over you might want to go for x6 in EPS systems to make sure your weapon power stayed as high as possible.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Doff's:

    Energy Weapons Officer - Reduce Cooldown on RapidFire and Scatter Volley.
    .....I assume you're running these powers continuously. If that is the case, the doff is no benefit because you can't get the CD reduced any lower than the global CD.

    Energy Weapons Officer - Chance to gain shield power when using energy weapons
    .....Not necessary in ESTF's. You should be able to stay alive just fine with HE, TSS, and an Aux2SIF. A slot better spent on another warfare specialist.

    Projectile Weapons Officer - Chance to gain shield power when using Torpedo Weapons.
    .....Same as above.

    Projectile Weapons Officer - Chance to reduce the time to recharge torpedoes.
    .....See above, recommend dropping the torp for the cutting beam.

    Conn Officer - Reduce Cooldown on Tactical Team
    .....Again, if you are running these powers continuously you have already achieved the lowest CD possible.

    Nurse - Increases crew recovery while in combat, when crew is below 75%
    .....The crew function of the game is absolutely broken. Last i checked, there is no benefit whatsoever to increasing your crew recovery rate.

    Space Warfare Specialist - Increased damage vs. Borg
    .....I don't know how many of these you can stack. but i maxed out on evasive maneuver doff's and would then fill out the roster with these.
    .....Unfortunately these are very expensive on the exchange atm.

    Maintenance Engineer - Recharge time reduced for Engineering Team and Buff
    .....See recommendations above, no Eng team needed.


    .....I would recommend the Conn officer Doff's that reduce EM CD. As noted before escorts depend on mobility and the Borg love their tractor beams. Three conn officers and as many Warfare specialists as you can carry.
  • xgorillapxxgorillapx Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I appreciate you taking the time to input so many suggestions (and there are a lot of them).
    The OP created is a general guide that works well for most people with most builds. Over time and changes in the game, some people find different things that may allow them to get out a bit more DPS when parsed, however some of them are misleading.

    One of the things that I stated a few times was that this was not for "DPS" in the strict sense of the term (unfortunately I can't change the name of the OP). I explained that these builds are a good way for people starting off to get the most out of what they have (and there's some other more advanced builds included as well) as well as stay alive. I've been a big proponent of it being hard to do damage when you're dead, which has only been amplified with the addition of the increasing cooldown timers upon death.

    I have also heard some people who prefer to go with 4x DHC's, rather than 3xDHC's and a torpedo launcher. I have a hard time doing that, considering the benefits of some of the torps now, especially the romulan hyper-plasma ans it's splash damage.
  • kaote93kaote93 Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Hi,

    This was a really informative post and discussion about tactical setups. I am new to STO and this guide is really helpful for breaking down the different ways to increase one's dps not only through equipment but also doffs, boffs, rep rewards, and skills.

    As a Klingon player I have to ask if these tips would also work for a raptor? So far I have really enjoyed playing that class of ship and I have heard that escort builds are roughly analagous to raptor builds. Are there any huge changes you would make if this guide were applied to a raptor?

    I have recently hit 50 and am trying to decide where to begin when it comes to the rep grinds, and want to make sure I end up using my time and credits most efficiently.

    Thanks again for this insightful guide.
  • edited June 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • cryptomancer7cryptomancer7 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    It's taken a couple days to get through all of this thread. Previously I had found similar advice for being tac, but then it turned out to be dated and didn't reflect changes in the game. What can I say, I'm usually here for a month, then gone for a year..

    Anyway, I think I've caught up on latest best practices, and I know I'm not that far off from "doing it right" because I can manage to get my way through the elite STF's without attracting too much ire from the team, and without going pop too often.

    But I think I may have made some expensive mistakes with gearing from reps.

    http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=aquilaimperium_7498

    Mostly, I had been trying to gear with Assimilated Borg stuff for "3/4 set" .. which seems to not exist anymore, so I have the console which is no good unless I get the KCB. The engines seem good, but then I have the deflector which maybe doesn't have the best stats, though it does give me the 2 pc regen bonus. Oops.

    I'm getting the impression (and looking harder at the gear) that I maybe should have been going for the MACO XII set all along. I'm not quite at T5 Omega force so I can't get the shield yet, but I was aiming for the MACO XII shield.

    So... how far off am I? What gear set should I be going for? I know I need to get APB3 back into my build, and change HY1 for TS1- Any other major tweaks I should make? (Rather than just swapping my Rom-Plas for AP).

    Thanks for the advice!

    PS- the OP doesn't seem to have stuff about Singularity Cores, the bonus groups I found are quite different than for warp cores! Did try to go with the Field Stabilizing variety though.
  • captainniftycaptainnifty Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Nevermind.

    Nothing to see here.
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