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How to spec your Escort for DPS in STF's

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  • xgorillapxxgorillapx Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    What does everyone think of the Tal Shiar Adapted Borg warp Core vs the very rare warp cores?
    For example, I had a hard time choosing between the Tal Shiar Adapted Borg Warp Core and my very rare warp core on my tac character. I had a
    Field Stabilizing Warp Core [EFF][W->S][SST][ECAP]

    The bonuses of the Very Rare warp core were perfect for me. It added to my characters already ridiculous efficieny, as well as gave a bump ot my shields, which is rather large since I always run max power to weapons. It also gave an engine boost when needed.
  • xuamatxuamat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Nice write up... lots of very helpful info in this post. So ty for that.

    I was wondering if you had a viable build for the JHEC (Kdf)? I acquired this ship yesterday and love it. I currently have my Jem'Hadar (alien) in a Grumba Siege Destroyer, and its been a fun ship, but putting him in the JHeavy Escort Carrier, since I cant get a bug ship, seems to be the next best thing.

    My build on that guy hasn't been changed in a VERY long time, and since LoR, with traits and rep boosts and such, I think its time to redo him, and would love your input.

    I'm looking forward to seeing your ideas, and again, thx for the guide.
  • xgorillapxxgorillapx Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Updated thread
    I created builds for the JemHadar Heavy Escort Carrier and posted the build I had for the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought beam build. Links are at the bototm of the thread with the other builds. Here is the link for the Jem'Hadar HEC you requested.

    http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=gorillapjemhectacstf_2596
  • robdmcrobdmc Member Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The JHEC is the only escort I would recommend an Aux2bat build on.
  • xuamatxuamat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Thanks xgorillapx !
  • xgorillapxxgorillapx Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Honestly, I've never played around with Aux2Bat on an escort, only on cruisers.
  • robdmcrobdmc Member Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    xgorillapx wrote: »
    Honestly, I've never played around with Aux2Bat on an escort, only on cruisers.

    The principle is the same. The only reason why it is effective on this one is the boff layout.

    http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=jhecaux2batstf_0

    The only thing worth noting is the doffs. You would want 3 Technicians and one conn officer for tac team to make sure it is always availible just in case the 30% reduction does not get you all the way even though from My testing it is very close. This will pretty much allow your cmdr tac boff to always run as per any aux2bat build. I assume the marion doff would be the 5th doff with this layout but any would do. The only sci ability is polarized hull but you can swap it out with he1 just to clear dots.

    Finally to make it easier you would probably want to do the spacebar keybinds. Putting in row 7 your 4 boff tac abilities and both aux2bat abilities.

    You might want to give it a shot.
  • pokinatchapunxpokinatchapunx Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I don't know about your suggested builds, they're pretty cookie-cutter, but all of the info you provided is very good. So thanks for that. :cool:
  • robdmcrobdmc Member Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I don't know about your suggested builds, they're pretty cookie-cutter, but all of the info you provided is very good. So thanks for that. :cool:

    If you are referring to the builds that xgorillapx made then you would be correct. The purpose of this thread is to help people learn how to build a basic escorts with basic equipment that anyone can easily obtain without squishing the developing playstyles of a person. Not everyone has access to all the top end gear and when starting out they may not want to either be a hindrance to the team or want to face their tongue lashing.

    That being said, if you have a build that you have found to be successful and want to share feel free to.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    xgorillapx wrote: »
    Input and corrective criticism is welcome. Passive-Aggressive bile from malcontents contributing no useful info is not. Please keep in mind, I gain nothing from this. I simply spent a good amount of time to write up what I've learned and experienced to help players who are not as experienced. When commenting, please show some maturity, common courtesy and human decency.

    Wow. You always start your posts with so much preemptive hostility towards the reader!?
    TURRETS ARE THE ONLY WEAPON THAT YOU CAN MOUNT IN THE REAR THAT WILL FIRE FORWARD. ANY OTHER WEAPON WILL BE GETTING YOU NO DAMAGE WHILE YOU'RE FACING FORWARD, AS YOU SHOULD BE 90% OF THE TIME.

    No need to shout the obvious (or to shout at all). We all know turrets have a 360 firing arc.
    This has changed with the use of the kinetic cutting beam. There are positives and negatives to using the cutting beam. (pros and cons below)

    - This is not a cannon and does not benefit from your rapid fire or scatter volley attacks (or any weapons modifier for that matter as it is not effected by beam bonuses either such as fire at will or target subsystems.)

    Instead, it can natively out-DPS a single turret (303 DPS, iirc).
    - This is a kinetic weapon and does not have any known proc as an energy weapon would

    It *does* have a proc, be it an indirect one: it enhances the damage output of the Assimilated Tractor Beam (Causes 2,040 Kinetic Damage and crew damage when used on a target recently hit by the Kinetic Cutting Beam in the last 4 seconds -- wiki)

    And since the KCB is indeed a kinetic weapon, it may come in really handy for those who rather have, say, 4x DHCs in front, with no torp.
    So there are two situations in which this weapon loses extreme value.
    1 - If you don't have any other pieces of the set.(you receive no bonuses from the item)

    That goes for *every* set in the game.

    Also, whosoever fits the KCB should really also fit the Assimilated Module -- not doing so is really 'cutting' yourself in the fingers (pun intended). Not only is the Assimilated Module pure awesomeness by itself (+0.92% CrtH, +9.2% CrtD, +5 Weapon Power, etc), but, together with the KCB, you will have fulfilled 2/3 of the Omega set bonus; meaning you get Omega Weapon Amplifier (which is, IMHO, much more useful than the rather lackluster 3rd part of the bonus).

    IMHO, the above combo of KCB + Assimilated Module (= Omega Weapon Amplifier) way overshadows any meagre benefit that single turret you gave up would get from your CRF/CSV.
    ... but I've noticed the borg typically don't do as much kinetic damage as they do plasma damage. This in turn, gives 3/4 plasma defense and 1/4 Kinetic defense.

    You must have been fighting a different Borg than I have (Swedish, maybe?) I'd go so far as to say the only thing really dangerous about the Borg is *precisely* their hefty kinetic damage! (Next to their wicked power drain, that is) You go in there with 30% plasma resist, and only 10% kinetic resist, and you just die from the first torp hitting you. (Yes, torps can be avoided, or shut down; but it seems invisi-torps made their way back into the game)

    Also, don't forget that Starship Hull Plating is a lot cheaper skill to fill up than Starship Armor Reinforcements (really, who has 9/9 in the latter?!). So, Neutroniums are really the best way to go. And at least 6/9 in Starship Armor Reinforcements, while we're at it.
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  • topsettopset Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    This thread inspired me to do a budget build. 7k dps for 800k total. Feel free to read about it and add it to your list of builds.

    It performed admirably in a pug ISE!

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=818721
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Kirk's Protege.
  • havokreignhavokreign Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I really like the cheapo build there. It's economy makes it all more humbling to be outclassed by it :D

    Using the same Escort (I run a blockade escort now ~ but was using the mirror hermes, as i preferred it's loadout to the original)

    TT1, HY2, CRF2, APO3
    HY1, CRF1, APB2

    EptW, Aux2Bat
    EngT1

    HE1, SciT2

    2 Disruptor DHC and 2 photon's in the front.
    2 Disruptor Turrets and 1 Kinetic Cutting beam in the rear.

    As mentioned lots of the things you're attacking don't have shields, and any that do, CRF2 removes them quickly. Adding that 2nd torpedo (replacing a HC) gave me a nice bump to my parsing results.

    Aux2Bat has a couple tac abilities bumping into global cooldowns. I tell myself I use it to reset my heals (after i use them), not buff my damage. I have 3 blue technicians.

    I'm up around 5200ish on an average ISE, though I'm an engineer, not a tac.
  • chlamidiotchlamidiot Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    havokreign wrote: »
    I really like the cheapo build there. It's economy makes it all more humbling to be outclassed by it :D

    Using the same Escort (I run a blockade escort now ~ but was using the mirror hermes, as i preferred it's loadout to the original)

    TT1, HY2, CRF2, APO3
    HY1, CRF1, APB2

    EptW, Aux2Bat
    EngT1

    HE1, SciT2

    2 Disruptor DHC and 2 photon's in the front.
    2 Disruptor Turrets and 1 Kinetic Cutting beam in the rear.

    As mentioned lots of the things you're attacking don't have shields, and any that do, CRF2 removes them quickly. Adding that 2nd torpedo (replacing a HC) gave me a nice bump to my parsing results.

    Aux2Bat has a couple tac abilities bumping into global cooldowns. I tell myself I use it to reset my heals (after i use them), not buff my damage. I have 3 blue technicians.

    I'm up around 5200ish on an average ISE, though I'm an engineer, not a tac.
    Bluntness incoming.

    Tech doffs used this way will do next nothing for you. 1 copy with 3 blues will not take anything to global.

    You can run 2 copies of any Tac abilities you need, there's no place for Aux2Busey on a fedscort, aside from maybe the McSteamy, but even then it's more suited for PvP.

    Here's all you need to know on tech doffs.
    -notredricky
  • xgorillapxxgorillapx Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Wow. You always start your posts with so much preemptive hostility towards the reader!?
    No, only after a couple reviews with people self-gratifyingly nitpicking things with nothing positive to contribute...


    No need to shout the obvious (or to shout at all). We all know turrets have a 360 firing arc.
    Here is a perfect example...


    Instead, it can natively out-DPS a single turret (303 DPS, iirc).
    Perhaps "natively", but not with energy-weapon consoles stacked and other bonuses, along with scatter volley and/or rapid fire that are constantly active. If there is any proof to the contrary that can be provided, I would be happy to note it.


    It *does* have a proc, be it an indirect one: it enhances the damage output of the Assimilated Tractor Beam (Causes 2,040 Kinetic Damage and crew damage when used on a target recently hit by the Kinetic Cutting Beam in the last 4 seconds -- wiki)

    And since the KCB is indeed a kinetic weapon, it may come in really handy for those who rather have, say, 4x DHCs in front, with no torp.
    Those with 4xDHC's in front obviously aren't too concerned with kinetic damage. These people are also clearly not going with any fg the suggested builds or recommendations made.



    That goes for *every* set in the game.
    Thanks.

    Also, whosoever fits the KCB should really also fit the Assimilated Module -- not doing so is really 'cutting' yourself in the fingers (pun intended). Not only is the Assimilated Module pure awesomeness by itself (+0.92% CrtH, +9.2% CrtD, +5 Weapon Power, etc), but, together with the KCB, you will have fulfilled 2/3 of the Omega set bonus; meaning you get Omega Weapon Amplifier (which is, IMHO, much more useful than the rather lackluster 3rd part of the bonus).

    IMHO, the above combo of KCB + Assimilated Module (= Omega Weapon Amplifier) way overshadows any meagre benefit that single turret you gave up would get from your CRF/CSV.
    This statement goes along with the tenor of this entire post. Please show me a piece of evidence that supports this and I will concede. It is debatable, and I would agree that there may be a slight benefit either way, but to say,"way overshadows any meager benefit..." is simply an attempt to be dismissive and discrediting. (Atleast a consistant theme has been established here).


    You must have been fighting a different Borg than I have (Swedish, maybe?) I'd go so far as to say the only thing really dangerous about the Borg is *precisely* their hefty kinetic damage! (Next to their wicked power drain, that is) You go in there with 30% plasma resist, and only 10% kinetic resist, and you just die from the first torp hitting you. (Yes, torps can be avoided, or shut down; but it seems invisi-torps made their way back into the game)
    The cubes have some hefty kinetic damage, expecially their "Invisatorp of doom". Anything else won't be hitting you with high yields or torp spread.

    Also, don't forget that Starship Hull Plating is a lot cheaper skill to fill up than Starship Armor Reinforcements (really, who has 9/9 in the latter?!). So, Neutroniums are really the best way to go. And at least 6/9 in Starship Armor Reinforcements, while we're at it.

    I think two neutroniums are typically the best way to go as they provide 35kinetic/35allenergy defense without having to constantly swap out your armor per enemy/weapon type. For those starting off or who are EC poor, a monotanium/electroceramic for example would be more cost effective and also provide a 35kinetic/35plasma, essentially doing the same thing in this instance.
  • xgorillapxxgorillapx Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Sorry, I've been MIA lately. I've had some stuff to take care of. I'll be back in action within the next week or two to play and catch up a bit. I did manage to add a link the a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship build. Hopefully everyone will continue to help eachother with any questions they may have.
  • age03age03 Member Posts: 1,664 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    What is the deal with plasma weapons in this thread.I would rather go with phaser or APs.
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  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    The embassy consoles increase plasma damage

    Phasers do little to nothing (proc wise) against the bord

    Antiproton are expensive and only provide an extra critd...not all too amazing and requires a good crit build to be really useful
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    It is dangerous to go alone, take this.

    http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=dntomegax_3868

    3 embassy romulan tactical officers (superior operative for crit), 2 humans for leadership, helmsman, inspirational leader and all the rest of the human/tactical space traits

    2 purple tax team cd redux conn doffs, energy weapon officer that has a chance to lower cannon ability cds, energy weapons officer that gives +20 shield power when firing energy weapons 5% proc (effective 35% chance a cycle since 7 energy weapons), and the doff that increases RSP duration by 8 seconds

    Sitting still power levels are 125/82/58/58

    Note that there are no torps, and no cutting beam. I could throw the KCB on for the assimilated 2 piece bonus, but i like having my third turret being affected by my CSVs, which doesnt work on the KCB.

    Also, this is actually a PvP ship I use for crosshealing and supporting spike damage, hence the DBB. If i wanted to purely spec for PvE id throw another DHC on there and just not use the beam specials at all. 3 ensign tactical slots = lol.

    This ship does 8000 DPS (5 million actual damage) infected runs regularly, and has done a 12000 DPS 5 minute run (in alpha strike with solid crits i have seen its chart go over 40k dps for short bursts). It also has the tankability to take on the tac cube pretty well solo (outside of a major mistake on my part). So there ya go. Enjoy.

    Note I still need to get mkxii purple tac consoles and mkxii fleet neuts, but eh, i dont really need them. The lobi batteries are really nice for the tank aspect (all power levels are at 125 or 130 when i use those)
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  • xgorillapxxgorillapx Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    age03 wrote: »
    What is the deal with plasma weapons in this thread.I would rather go with phaser or APs.

    There should be a good amount of info regarding this in the original post. Please keep in mind that this information is for STF purposes and not PvP. While phasers, tetryons and polarons may be useful in PvP, they fall short in comparison to other weapons with procs that effect all targets. While we are not talking about huge amounts of difference in damage, the only thing that separates weapons are their procs. "ALL WEAPONS ARE CREATED EQUAL WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THEIR PROCS/BONUSES"

    There are three weapon types that have procs that work against all targets.
    Plasma - Plasma DoT can be applied to all targets.
    Disruptor - Disruptor damage debuff can be applied to all targets.
    Antiprotons - Antiproton CrtD bonus can be applied to all targets.

    Phasers - Phasers disable subsystem doesn't help you against gates and very little against cubes
    Tetryon - Tetryon strip shields doesn't help against unshielded targets. Also many targets have their shields down within a few seconds. At which point, stripping them further does not help.
    Polaron - Polaron drains energy from subsystems is ineffective against high hitpoint targets.

    Regular plasma weapons can take advantage of easily acquired plasma damage bonuses such as the 2-pc bonus from the Romulan set. This provides "Plasma Conductive Circuitry". This bonus gives you +7.5% plasma damage and +15.2% Electro-Plasma System
    http://sto.gamepedia.com/Romulan_Singularity_Harness

    Because of this, I am personally a fan of the romulan plasma weapons (Disruptor/plasma hybrid). which lets you take advantage of two procs that are always useful as well as the +7.5% plasma damage because it uses a plasma energy base.
  • xgorillapxxgorillapx Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    It is dangerous to go alone, take this.
    but i like having my third turret being affected by my CSVs, which doesnt work on the KCB.

    Yeah this has been a source of internal debate for me. I'd like to see an experiment done comparing the damage output with a 3rd turret and with the KCB.

    I don't like the idea of giving up a 360 firing turret that will be taking advantage of my Scatter Volley3 and Rapid fire2. You are also giving up a chance for that turret to proc (which is constantly firing and constantly giving you a chance for proc).

    But we're brought back to the damage output of the KCB and the set bonus. It's a tough call.
  • taschenbillard12taschenbillard12 Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    in the borg estfs you will do more dmg with the kcb than with a turret and you get the 2pc set bonus and a dmg comp. to the borg set 3pc tractor beam
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    The kcb does more damage then a (non doff) quantum torpedo. No brainer for myself
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    When I parse data I check numbers and percents. I can confirm that the KCB does LESS damage over time than a turret with CSV 3 and 1. The only time the KCB does more damage is when the turret is not being affected by a cannon special (which on my ship is almost never, in fact any escort cycling cannon specials with the EWO doff will only have about 25% specials downtime)

    So if youre using the doff for energy weapon cannon special cds, you really should use a third turret.

    The assimilated 2 piece would be the only real loss, and it doesnt do much.

    But the difference between them is very very minimal, about 30 dps all told. So the KCB is a viable piece of equipment, just a hardcore minmaxer like me might look to other options, as I have.

    One plus to the KCB I can say is for more novice pilots, it does make a good laser sight, since the red line always points at your target, lol.

    If you use the borg three piece (i elect for 2 piece with an elite fleet shield) you might want to use KCB for the TB damage boost, but again thats situational. The tractor beam is such a long cooldown comparatively (in a typical stf run you may only use it 3 or 4 total times, actually) that it doesnt really add to your overall damage very much vs multiple opponents. Single target burst its pretty nice though.
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    Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
    Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Curious as to how you parsed the data.

    If it was against a shielded target that was loosing shields, then the kcb is effectively "catching up." it is kinetic damage so it needs to get by that initial 75% resistance shields have to kinetics

    if the target was a gate or transformer or another target that does not have shields, then both weapons are on equal ground and as such the turret is just plain better. There may be targets without shields but there is a guarantee there will be shielded targets

    Care to go a little further into what you were fireing at? I'm really interested
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2013
    My two cents on the polaron weapons proc. They are more effective in combination with the leech console and high flow caps, but sci toons are more adept at being able to score a heavy drain where you can see the effect.
  • dahminusdahminus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    lucho80 wrote: »
    My two cents on the polaron weapons proc. They are more effective in combination with the leech console and high flow caps, but sci toons are more adept at being able to score a heavy drain where you can see the effect.


    ...huh?

    A sci to on with the same amount of flow cap will drain the same as a tact/engi.
    What were you getting at?
    Chive on and prosper, eh?

    My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2013
    dahminus wrote: »
    ...huh?

    A sci to on with the same amount of flow cap will drain the same as a tact/engi.
    What were you getting at?

    Yes, it's the same on all, but OP said the polaron proc wasn't noticeable. At 320 flow caps (just using it for a high round number), each proc drains 65 power.

    Having that said, for an STF tac build, you don't really need flow caps.
  • linyivelinyive Member Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    My head is spinning from reading the first few pages. I believe people are over analyzing.
  • robdmcrobdmc Member Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    linyive wrote: »
    My head is spinning from reading the first few pages. I believe people are over analyzing.

    You will need to be careful on reading the first few pages. Things change over time.
  • taschenbillard12taschenbillard12 Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    When I parse data I check numbers and percents. I can confirm that the KCB does LESS damage over time than a turret with CSV 3 and 1
    ...

    my kcb outperforms a phaser turret with csv by 50%

    dont know why you get that results
    i give an example from mine from one of the estfs
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/xbyofkpqgfrly0y/kse1.PNG

    7.4% from 2 phaser turret - so 3.7% for one and 4.8% and 5.1% for both turrets with csv
    so total 8.6% for one phaser turret with csv

    and 11.4% of all my dmg from the kcb


    done with eptw2, max weapon power, apb3, 5 phaser consoles (3+2 vr mkxii+mkxi), max energy weapons skilled, csv2+1
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/l2lcbfgahmsnpfz/kse2.PNG
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/nmvkkjvo1pvajze/Combatlog.Log
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