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Threat Control Modifier.
areikou
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
So I've been thinking lately about how Cruisers could be assisted with being able to generate and hold aggro better than their smaller escort cousins. These massive dps beasts tend to tear away aggro from even some of the best cruiser jockies.
Then it hits me, why is there no Threat Control modifier on ANY weapon in this game? Many games out there have procs or bonuses for aggro management, but STO does not. So why not create a new modifier that directly affects Threat Control on beam arrays? Would be relatively simple to do/code and could give cruisers the edge they need to be able to lock down aggro on single/multiple mobs.
Thoughts?
Then it hits me, why is there no Threat Control modifier on ANY weapon in this game? Many games out there have procs or bonuses for aggro management, but STO does not. So why not create a new modifier that directly affects Threat Control on beam arrays? Would be relatively simple to do/code and could give cruisers the edge they need to be able to lock down aggro on single/multiple mobs.
Thoughts?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
Post edited by areikou#8990 on
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cruisers should have NO modifier as we poor cruiser captains are merely the scum of the cosmos
ALL HAIL THE ELITE
WE ARE NOT WORTHY
the idea of a [threat] modifier is interesting, but attaching threat generating functions to enginneer BOFF abilities is a better way to improve threat generation for cruisers only.
Take for instance acceton beam. It lowers dmg output of the target and a DOT...if additionally to that you add something like a "taunt" to that ability you have your cruiser only threat ability.
Also the energy modulation, that increases shield penetration could be modified for increased threat generation.
the abilities are there, they just need some adjustment.
But if you have a decent cruiser build, and no escorts with 6-9 points in threat controle, you should have no problem to hold and get aggro.
very constructive...
That was made VERY clear to me
So I am now accepting that only Escort Elites have rights and the rest of us exist to Die as their riot shields
After all thats all we are "good for" isn't it
Dying so escorts can be glory boys
You might have noticed im a little cross
comes of the message ORDERING me to support the buffing of the R OR quit the forum
so all I can say to that is
remove the cruisers ENTIRELY if you want
but then your escorts will die a lot
it is exactly that kind of response that disqualifies you in my opinion...
And if you didn't understand what the problem with the galaxy-R is up to now, i'm sorry.
not asked
not persuaded
ORDERED
by someone who thinks they are an elite
I feel we should not waste developer time on ruining a perfectly good ship so some "elite" type can slaughter a few more people in pvp
so fine
Do as you like to it
but never expect us to pay for it
issue it as a NEW ship at a higher price
and let the "elite" use it
your comments were only some misinformed assumptions...thats why you were excluded from the discussion in that post.
if you have nothing constructive to add or just think we are all idiots for thinking that the galaxy-r needs a redesign, because it is not worth 1600 cp in it's current shape, then you should really stop posting.
now you are doing the same thing here, what do you expect? We all agree to your opinion, even if it is made out of nonsense and misinformation?
Take 6 to 9 ranks in threat control, have at least 1 copy of FAW and always have minimum 6 beams.
You should be running 125 power to weapons nearly all the time for PvE.
Only a few things will pull aggro off you you at that point.
If you are Sci or Tac, you will also have other ways to increase your threat level (generally things like FOMM or Sensor Scan, and just raw Tac damage).
If an escort took threat control, that's their problem to deal with and no reflection on you.
There are times where my poor little escort is stuck tanking tactical cubes even though there are several cruisers sitting around pew pewing, and then there are times where I push my absolute hardest and can't rip aggro at all.
If it's a passive bonus to threat generation in addition to Threat Control, it'd certainly help, but I don't think it should be limited to just cruisers. Science vessels make great tanks as well.
Fanfiction! ZOMG! Read it now!
kate-wintersbite.deviantart.com/art/0x01-Treachery-293641403
let them take the damage
Im sick of the elite telling everyone else how to live
Can some of you tanks out there with it skilled weigh in / make me less worried about re-skilling my captains for it? I know where I can borrow the points from, so *shrug* I just haven't done it yet.
equal parts cynical and helpful
Ok, you have full on crossed the threshold into purposefully derailing the thread for no reason.
I play a Cruiser, on Elite STFs. I tank for teams because Cruisers are built for tanking and support.
I'm sorry if you think this is not the case, but this is exactly what they were designed to do and for the vast majority of all content - they do this exceptionally well.
I'm really not sure what the issue is with you, or why you are having a rage fit in this thread.
The OP is looking for advice, either provide or move on.
I had the same issue and the simple truth is there is nothing you can really do about it with the way threat control is available now.
An Eng in a Cruiser in particular is a very low damage combination on STFs, and you really have a few choices
A) Take threat control and soak damage (better than any ship in the game)
C) Do neither, and NPCs will ignore you and escorts will take all of the fire with no one to help keep them alive.
I build my cruiser captains with threat, and they never leave their cruisers.
More flexibility would be nice, but I have other characters for my Escort and Sci ships.
I'd love for there to be a [Threat] Modifier for weapons or Engineering consoles that provide Resistance+Threat. They don't exist, so threat control it is.
let the escorts take the flak
and do a cruisers JOB
Cruise around and take on the targets that need taking on
and if you think your job is to Tank then tank
but by choice not because someone tells you that it your ONLY function
There should be no "tanking" and no "healing"
every ship has the duty to help others as they can
that means Escorts should carry eng team to use on others and Cruisers should have the firepower to clean an escorts tail of fighters
thats team work and the starfleet way
the "holy triad" is merely a hold over from games we played 30 years ago
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
I actually do quite well DPS-wise with an engineer in a cruiser. I won't sit here and claim a beam broadside is going to out-do a torp spread and cannon volley, but I don't have any qualms about bringing a cruiser into ESTFs for damage. I've played around with them a lot since I first started playing, and I know they can be on the low-end. Hell I PuG enough to see that a lot of them still are putting out minimal DPS (such as not even stopping probes before they hit the vortex in KASE). But you can boost it well enough without robbing your ability to support yourself/others.
Of course it helps that I try to heal as often as possible in a cruiser as the team engages targets. I've kept myself alive against cubes/tac cubes where I did hold aggro, and I usually keep teammates alive as well when I don't without much issue ('course they likely have a couple boff skills of their own being cycled, making it easier).
I suppose I may just respec one of my engineers and see how I like it.
@ sollvax
Judging from the posts I saw in other threads, I probably shouldn't respond but..
This has nothing to do with what anyone does or does not think I "should" be doing -- only what I have considered doing for my own enjoyment.
equal parts cynical and helpful
so tell me which Devs time do you want to waste for a year on this ??
And forcing Cruisers to be damage sinks and threat magnets regardless of the captains choices??
sounds like murder to me
Murder for the poor guy trying to finish the mission while three escorts line up "omega strikes" and make "strike runs"
so a counter proposal
A console which makes the vessel its fitted to have limitless threat value
and which is NOT fitted as standard on ANY vessel
Why do you keep insisting anyone is doing anything to force a player to fill a role?
equal parts cynical and helpful
its all about making MY cruiser a damage magnet regardless of what i personally do
Static threat values for cruisers?
Higher threat value for our weapons??
Changing our bridge officers powers etc
not "if you like" its all about automatically making US human shields
And i don't like it
Also I regard it as a massive waste of developer time
What about other beam users? Or tactical cruisers?
I think the better route is something suggested many times, namely a toggle for threat control.
As for magnitude, they could always just bump up the magnitude of the existing skill.
I fly it more than any other vessel
I know it inside and out
My current Galaxy (an R) is special to me
I do not want it turned into a super weapon
I do not want it turned into a mobile shield
and i do not want to be ordered about by a 13 year old who thinks my role is to obey him because he is and i quote "Too Leet to fail"
I am angry today and feeling increasingly that i do not belong here
where I am hated for NOT being a tactical in an escort who pvp's unsuspecting people as part of a PVP leet fleet
So im sorry if i seem grumpy , or even obstructive but i was threatened off a thread earlier by an ingame message
And I am feeling more than a little put upon by everyone seeming to want to destroy my perfectly good and valid cruiser
Probably because the OP's request would result in just that, intended or not?
which means we all have to stop using them and turn "escort leet" or die a lot
OK, I had moved off from that into another conversation -- about the threat control skill and my own personal interest in it -- and thought his responses did, as well. If they're all directed at just the idea to force beams to increase aggro, then nevermind.
equal parts cynical and helpful
I suspect most of those AGAINST this fly cruisers
see we don't want to be turned into flying targets
Maybe I put it a little harshly but well im not in the best of moods today
Sure, I try to do DPS, but my Commander Boff is Sci & I usually am not the first person on the Tactical Cubes & whatnot.
I swear people (including hero cruiser captains) must turn down their Weapon Power against the end bosses in STFs in order to avoid agro.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
yeah totally agree. it should come with a build in taunt, if you chose a cruiser. If you like to play your cruiser as a supporter/healer or even DD, just don't use the taunt.
what i proposed earlier in the thread, that certain abilities could act a s a taunt would mean that you lose a defensive ability in order to have a taunt...and that is in many cases not very preferable.
But still, high tier engi abilities like aceton beam and energie modulation could be modified to act as taunts and aggro buffs.
The only thing that proves this is parsing your combat logs.
And I've run a lot of logs.
My Tac/Cruiser is generally 50% to Double the DPS of the same offense focused Eng/Cruiser that I have, and the Tac/Escort is generally 50% more than the Tac/Cruiser (with spikes that are double or more what the Tac/Cruiser can do).
Doing "quite well" DPS wise is how much? (let me know if you have numbers from CLP or ACT, they tend to have a large variance between them).
I'm not saying you shouldn't pack as much damage ability as possible for Elites - you most definitely should.
What I'm saying is, you will not be topping the charts. You won't even hit mid charts on a good team, maybe in PUGville, but on a good team it will never happen.
(This is directed at the general "you" and not you specifically synkr0nized)
If you're doing low/mid damage, but you are also heavily supporting the team - then no issue.
If you are doing low/mid damage, but you have 6-9 ranks in threat control and you are soaking a ton of damage - then no issue.
If you are doing low/mid damage, not healing anyone else and not soaking damage while other ships take all the flak and do the lion's share of damage you and the group would be better off if you were in another ship.
Sounds fine to me, and yes everyone should have some abilities to keep themselves alive and should be generally self sufficient.
It's a different playstyle for sure.
It will be lost on most PUGs, but on halfway decent teams people will thank you for tanking (the ones that notice anyway).
Yes really.
Debuffs like Sensor Scan and Subnuc carry a massive threat component.
Its very likely you are dumping those, and/or other powers like TKR or GW, Energy Siphon, etc.
Expect aggro if you unload a handful of those all at once.
I think a fundamental problem i nthis game is that many values are all over the place. You cannot really predict how much modifier to a threat you'd need to give to have a 7-8 beam broadside draw the same aggro as a DHC rapidly firing.
What I know from experience that I am often surprised how difficult some people seem to have inflicting significant damage. That is not limited to Cruisers, though, but Cruisers are particularly notable IMO. But that's entirely independent of Aggro management. Or maybe it's not, maybe these people are reall yintentionally dealing less damage to not get attacked and not get killed. But I doubt that.
Oh I don't know if I agree with your comment here... I believe in role based play.. As a Sci and as a Tac, my gameplay is different for each character.
As a Sci; my role is less about damage, and more about healing and holding... I use FAW and some Threat Control to draw agro to me. Point being, my role is to support.
As a Tac; the role is to deal damage.
As a Eng; the role is to tank... thats what a cruiser is built for.
It is unfortunate that DPS is King here. The roles have gotten mixed, or people feel less than contributory (if that is even a word) in non-Tac DPS Dealing roles.
The Death Timers abated the sighs and moans when I enter a STF as a Sci Character... Since it gave others a respect for the healing that was done
Personally, I play to the role designed for the character class. Match ship class to character class, etc... I am very fond of those who understand the role of their character... Sci = Heal, Eng = Tank, Tac = DPS... and applaud those who play that way.
That being said... I am not a fan of being "Ordered" either... Or the Elitists... I know many an Elite, and consider myself an elite (an Elite Tac, and an elite Sci). But there are many Elitists on my ignore list.
Trust me, ignoring the Elitists has greatly improved my happiness levels with the game.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
honestly, you all whine about the notion of adding a [thrt] modifier as if all weapons in game always have all the modifiers going for them. where's the mk xii antiproton dual heavy cannon [acc][dmg][crtd][crth][borg] weaponry? oh right, they don't exist because the modifiers are always just a combination of 3 attributes.
to the original poster, i support the idea of adding a threat modifier for weaponry. it allows for other vessels to take on the tanking role if they so choose to (like say a cruiser or a science vessel if they are so inclined). and in by making it a modifier, people have to decide wether that modifier is worth it or if its better off as [acc] or [dmg] or the ones for crit.