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For all you KDF Haters.

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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    whipplor wrote: »
    they managed it with the flagships , surely it cant be that hard :p

    Yes, but what's Cryptic's track record? ;)
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Warmaker01 wrote: »
    Yes, but what's Cryptic's track record? ;)

    true that ;.;
    oh well , hope springs eternal
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    While I absolutely agree that the KDF is far from a full 2nd faction and could use some love, I used to have my doubts that anyone actually hates the KDF or the players, like the title suggests.

    Seeing some of the immature comments here and the sheer amount of bile and sour grapes thrown at the Fed site for merely existing and doing something like (*gasp*) suggesting content that could be added (Because no one has -ever- done that in -any- game) I could understand if some hatred actually develops...
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I 'm a KDF fan at heart and all I want is the KDF done to equal the Federation in content, including ships/kitbashes, campaign/missions, playable species, costumes etc.

    I know it's too much to ask, but Cryptic if you keep being Federation only, how much longer will the game be profitable? You say there aren't many KDF players yet the place is packed out when I am at Qo'Nos, the Academy etc. You say there are not enough KDF players, well shouldn't you focus on fixing that then just ignoring the problem. More content is the answer and not just c-store, in-game content you get by just playing the game. It's the only way this game will move forward. You have like a 12 month window to focus all your attention on getting the KDF up and going, after that you'll realise what a mistake you have made if you just keep focusing on the Federation.

    Also your public relations and communication could be a lot better, talk to the community and actually do as they ask, not a half a job like you did with the account bank. Make these two factions complete and unique before you even bother thinking about or looking at the Romulans, True Way or whoever else you plan on making into a faction.

    Complete what you have before moving on. I'm a game modeller and modder and it's the only way you can get that done, not much different in ideals to making a game, just a lot more work.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    No hate here for the Klinks, just a sad heart on the way they have been treated.

    Here is what the KDF has had to put up with since Launch. Presented by the awesome Peregrine Falcon. See how much we get the bad end of the stick. How much promises were made but were cut short due to feds crying. take a look.

    http://www.stowiki.org/User:Peregrine_Falcon
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I just think people hate the crying more than they hate the faction.

    It's a fandom thing. You like what you like and everyone else is a dummy for not sharing your pet obsession to the same degree. It's a forum wide thing and the source of much of the bellyaching.

    Personally I enjoy running Klingons and would enjoy there being a lot more for them. But I also feel that way about the Feddy side.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I 'm a KDF fan at heart and all I want is the KDF done to equal the Federation in content, including ships/kitbashes, campaign/missions, playable species, costumes etc.

    I know it's too much to ask, but Cryptic if you keep being Federation only, how much longer will the game be profitable? You say there aren't many KDF players yet the place is packed out when I am at Qo'Nos, the Academy etc. You say there are not enough KDF players, well shouldn't you focus on fixing that then just ignoring the problem. More content is the answer and not just c-store, in-game content you get by just playing the game. It's the only way this game will move forward. You have like a 12 month window to focus all your attention on getting the KDF up and going, after that you'll realise what a mistake you have made if you just keep focusing on the Federation.

    Also your public relations and communication could be a lot better, talk to the community and actually do as they ask, not a half a job like you did with the account bank. Make these two factions complete and unique before you even bother thinking about or looking at the Romulans, True Way or whoever else you plan on making into a faction.

    Complete what you have before moving on. I'm a game modeller and modder and it's the only way you can get that done, not much different in ideals to making a game, just a lot more work.
    The sad fact is this game could survive if the KDF faction folded entirely i fear, this for two reasons that hasn't changed since i joined in 010.

    A) There is "nowhere else" for Trekkie fans to go and actually play a star trek toon in an MMO format.
    B) Some of the Trekkie fanbase in this MMO are very "green" on playing MMO's in general, so one might decipher that as far as an MMO is concerned they either do not know when their being shortchanged or just dont care. My money is on the latter.

    "If" a long hard developed Trek MMO were to appear on the market with actual "content", (see "storyline" and/or in general, "things to do"), i seriously think this game would probably fold up in 4 months.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    horseshoer wrote:
    The sad fact is this game could survive if the KDF faction folded entirely i fear, this for two reasons that hasn't changed since i joined in 010.

    A) There is "nowhere else" for Trekkie fans to go and actually play a star trek toon in an MMO format.
    B) Some of the Trekkie fanbase in this MMO are very "green" on playing MMO's in general, so one might decipher that as far as an MMO is concerned they either do not know when their being shortchanged or just dont care. My money is on the latter.

    "If" a long hard developed Trek MMO were to appear on the market with actual "content", (see "storyline" and/or in general, "things to do"), i seriously think this game would probably fold up in 4 months.

    You bring some valid points. One could also argue that a contributing factor to why this game never really took off and was eventually relegated to F2P is because a bona fide opposing faction was never developed and that level of faction interactive gameplay, PVP, never expanded. Thus gamers returned to the other games they were already playing, likely WoW, and only remaining were not necessarily gamers but mainly Trekkies and fanboys.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    This thread seems to fit that same definition, except was posted by a Fed player:

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=273617

    Whatever that was, it's gone.


    The main problem is that the game is biased towards Federation gameplay as it is... and in every way. Developmentally, you start as a Federation captain. You're halfway to cap before you even unlock KDF gameplay, and I'd wager that most folks would rather max out their first toon before starting a new one.

    On top of that, all of the shows and movies are Federation-centric. Yeah, there are Klingon fans out there, but by and large the majority of fans want to play Federation, since that is where the development of the franchise largely takes place.

    So right off the bat you have more weight on the Federation side.

    The problem with this particular thread (not the one you linked, this one right here) is that it comes off as a temper tantrum. I prefer to play KDF. Anyone who plays KDF sees what is blatantly obvious - they're lacking in PvE content, they're lacking in number of ships available. They're lacking. It's obvious. It's a fact. It's underdeveloped. You can raise this issue without resorting to name calling and making claims that everything revolves around "fed whining." It comes off as immature, abrasive, and annoying.

    Feds can get away with being immature, abrasive, and annoying, like in the link you posted, because the game has inherent biases towards interest and activity in Federation gameplay. The KDF doesn't have that luxury. My biggest fear is that all of these temper tantrums and all of the name calling by KDF players actually drives away folks that might be interested in playing KDF.

    I want a fully developed KDF. I want story-driven PvE content. I want good mission rewards. I want more KDF ships. I want KDF on par with the Feds. I just don't think shooting ourselves in the foot is the way to get there.


    Very well said.


    If you look at the Fedbear forums there's already multiple threads begging for several different "next" ships when the decals and plastic on these are still fresh and shiny. Shouldn't you play with the toys you just got before you beg Cryptic Mommy for another new one?

    Oh, look more name calling.


    Here's an idea for you.

    KDF items sell so poorly, that if weren't for federation focused players buying new ships there probably wouldn't even be a game at this point.

    That's right, so much revenue is generated from Fedside that it single handedly generates the revenue to keep this game going.


    So instead of name calling, and resorting to insults - maybe take a step back and look at the big picture of where the KDF would be if there weren't Fed players buying every new ship that came out.



    In the real world, companies require not only revenue to stay afloat - they need to turn a profit.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Whatever that was, it's gone.






    Very well said.





    Oh, look more name calling.


    Here's an idea for you.

    KDF items sell so poorly, that if weren't for federation focused players buying new ships there probably wouldn't even be a game at this point.

    That's right, so much revenue is generated from Fedside that it single handedly generates the revenue to keep this game going.


    So instead of name calling, and resorting to insults - maybe take a step back and look at the big picture of where your KDF would be if there weren't Fed players buying every new ship that came out.

    You don't need to be grateful, or anything silly like that - that's not my point. You don't even need to be happy about the state the KDF is in, I'm certainly not.

    On the other hand, temper tantrums over over customers almost wholly supporting a service you also enjoy is like shooting yourself in the foot.


    In the real world, companies require not only revenue to stay afloat - they need to turn a profit.

    Fedbear is a valid substitute and description of the Starfleet faction. Any naming calling you assume is a misconception somewhere between the monitor and the chair on your end. As for your assumptions as to the business model and present rate of revenue, perhaps you should take a step back and look where this game went with one developed faction: F2P. Not exactly knocking down walls are we?
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Fedbear is...

    Derogatory.

    Thinking otherwise is either outright lying or simply being confused.

    As for your assumptions as to the business model and present rate of revenue, perhaps you should take a step back and look where this game went with one developed faction: F2P. Not exactly knocking down walls are we?

    F2P and generating more revenue than before and selling new ships like hotcakes.


    This game is F2P because it was sold by Atari to PWE, a company that specializes in F2P games.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I came back to see how the game is "progressing"... If another Star Trek MMO show up wit better content and full faction playbility, defenitive this game will fold in no time.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Khupa wrote:
    I came back to see how the game is "progressing"... If another Star Trek MMO show up wit better content and full faction playbility, defenitive this game will fold in no time.

    Still far better than we where at launch but still less than a complete faction today.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012


    Here's an idea for you.

    KDF items sell so poorly, that if weren't for federation focused players buying new ships there probably wouldn't even be a game at this point.

    That's right, so much revenue is generated from Fedside that it single handedly generates the revenue to keep this game going.


    So instead of name calling, and resorting to insults - maybe take a step back and look at the big picture of where the KDF would be if there weren't Fed players buying every new ship that came out.



    In the real world, companies require not only revenue to stay afloat - they need to turn a profit.

    You are right and I'm sure the cut-off at the knees job of building the KDF into a complete faction has nothing to do with the fact the KDF is a poorly played faction with a small less hopeful fanbase that offers little revenue stream to Cryptic compared to the majority of the Star Trek fans.
    The "we are the majority" logic only goes so far in a situation where even the Devs have given up on a part of the game they never truelly started properly or even got close to finishing poorly with inconsistant story and the other simple options that many KDF fans would have paid for if the factions poor state of being had not chased them away to begin with months, even years ago.

    Very rarely do you see a "Returning fed fan " post to see how the game is going for the federation, but I have seen many "Returning KDF fans" posts looking to see if the KDF is better and fun only to learn that we still sit idle, waiting for completion and faction wholeness.
    That can only point to an interest in wishing to both play the KDF as a prime faction choice and the willingness to spend revenu in doing so if the faction was complete and offer a level of play that satisfied that definition.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Roach wrote: »
    You are right and I'm sure the cut-off at the knees job of building the KDF into a complete faction has nothing to do with the fact the KDF is a poorly played faction with a small less hopeful fanbase that offers little revenue stream to Cryptic compared to the majority of the Star Trek fans.
    The "we are the majority" logic only goes so far in a situation where even the Devs have given up on a part of the game they never truelly started properly or even got close to finishing poorly with inconsistant story and the other simple options that many KDF fans would have paid for if the factions poor state of being had not chased them away to begin with months, even years ago.

    Very rarely do you see a "Returning fed fan " post to see how the game is going for the federation, but I have seen many "Returning KDF fans" posts looking to see if the KDF is better and fun only to learn that we still sit idle, waiting for completion and faction wholeness.
    That can only point to an interest in wishing to both play the KDF as a prime faction choice and the willingness to spend revenu in doing so if the faction was complete and offer a level of play that satisfied that definition.

    Very well said Roach. Friend of mine just came back to see if anything happened to the KDF what happened and he nearly immideatly left the game in disguist AGAIN. And he swore never t o come back to Craptic.

    The sad part is that the Devs have openly given up on KDF. They designed their self fulfilling prophecy that if no one wants to play KDF they won't make content for us.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    In the real world, companies require not only revenue to stay afloat - they need to turn a profit.

    In the real world, companies that are complacent about their market base often find their profits dwindling.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    In the real world, companies require not only revenue to stay afloat - they need to turn a profit.

    Starfleet didn't save them from f2p, the fire sale to PWE. Starfleet didn't help them keep above water any more than the KDF.

    they messed up.

    the KDF should have been a full feature, either as a full faction or as a monster in a game with actually good PvP. like more modern mmogs. instead, it's half donkey mini-faction status for the Klingons. developed by fans, but not the designers with the gravitas to pull the whole thing off.

    developing for Starfleet may give them enough under the current regime, or it may not. this doesn't negate the failures of the past.

    a more fully featured second faction, or none at all, would have made more sense in generating revenues. not to mention endgame content, raid content, etc.

    that the KDF exists at all in the present form doesn't speak highly of the business prospects for either faction, the entire game, or anything else about STO.

    when gw2 is out, I'm probably gone.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Hawks wrote: »
    Very well said Roach. Friend of mine just came back to see if anything happened to the KDF what happened and he nearly immideatly left the game in disguist AGAIN. And he swore never t o come back to Craptic.



    I see it a lot.
    In my local area several of my friends have logged on played to get thier KDF toon and then quit when they realized it went no where fast and stopped abruptly.
    On poor guy actually has been here since pre-launch with a lifer sub and he has never returned due to the whole STO game past frack ups, much less the KDF situation.
    Thats sad and a sign that things need to change to bring these players back becuase the feeding the "majority" fanbase will only last so long before even they stop buying the next level of virtual fluff.
    Once that happens the game folds and all the fans are left with debt but no product for the money.
    The sad part is that the Devs have openly given up on KDF. They designed their self fulfilling prophecy that if no one wants to play KDF they won't make content for us.
    This is the saddest part though and then to give the impression that it is us fans that are at the core of the issue becuase we do not wish to loyally play and purchase in a game that doesn't seem to care past potential profit or hold complete gameplay to entice it.
    It is not the fans fault that the game doesn't entice us to want to play past the loyalty we hold for our fan attraction.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Well said Roach, I haven't seen it put better on the forums or in-game chat.

    It's sad really if they would take the time to bring the KDF up to the quality and standards of the Federation I would be very hopeful for the future of this game. I have supported it as much as I can and now i's up to the development team to do their part. If they spent the time and effort into bringing the KDF into what we all want to see I think they'll find a lot more people playing that KDF side.

    In fact if this was to happen I would suspect many fans new and old would be excited in new developments, whether KDF, Federation or even Romulan. However atm many aren't that hopefully. The new season 6 content does nothing for me, it should get me excited but to me it feels as a massive waste of time when there are more important parts of the game (ie, the KDF faction) that should be getting the attention and work done on them.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    when gw2 is out, I'm probably gone.[/QUOTE]

    yup i'll be on that boat to tyria..:o
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I've been playing Champions Online. So Cryptic is still getting my money, I suppose. Heh.

    But it makes me sad. I like a lot of stuff about STO, but every time I consider getting active again I hear about 'exciting developments' and get cheesed off all over again.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Well said Roach. Summed up perfectly.

    Another sad part is I just read around a bit and the Feds are already whining for more stuff:

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=272073
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    they've been "pining" for a frigate for a while, ever since the covenant cat carrier came out.

    I still think it would have been great to see an escort launching an escort that could launch an escort, which launches an escort...
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    when gw2 is out, I'm probably gone.

    yup i'll be on that boat to tyria..:o

    Shame on you. I still manage to play my Guild Wars and this one too. :p

    So make the time. :D
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    hello everyone

    1fed toon
    12 kdf 7 lvl 50

    got all the kdf csotre stuff only got a few fed stuff

    be nice if my kdf dollars went to kdf stuff
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Roach wrote: »
    You are right and I'm sure the cut-off at the knees job of building the KDF into a complete faction has nothing to do with the fact the KDF is a poorly played faction with a small less hopeful fanbase that offers little revenue stream to Cryptic compared to the majority of the Star Trek fans.
    The "we are the majority" logic only goes so far in a situation where even the Devs have given up on a part of the game they never truelly started properly or even got close to finishing poorly with inconsistant story and the other simple options that many KDF fans would have paid for if the factions poor state of being had not chased them away to begin with months, even years ago.

    Very rarely do you see a "Returning fed fan " post to see how the game is going for the federation, but I have seen many "Returning KDF fans" posts looking to see if the KDF is better and fun only to learn that we still sit idle, waiting for completion and faction wholeness.
    That can only point to an interest in wishing to both play the KDF as a prime faction choice and the willingness to spend revenu in doing so if the faction was complete and offer a level of play that satisfied that definition.

    Agreed,

    It’s amazing that this stage in the game Cryptic is still spewing out that the reason the KDF faction is in the state that it is in is because not enough player are spending time playing the faction.

    I have to admit that I’ve been having to force myself to log into STO these days, not even my Vo’Quv has been enough to keep me wanting to play this MMO and I’ve loaded up Diablo 3 and have been having a great time playing it.

    The problem for me is that for the KDF faction and this MMO in general there’s just not enough immersion, I don’t find myself getting lost in any of its stories or gameplay.

    It seems like season 6 is going to try to bank on the larger groups that hang out in Fleets and Fleet Star Bases are going to be nothing but time sinks that are designed to eat up our in-game resources and blind us all to that fact that outside of the Star Base there will still be nothing to do in this MMO.

    The KDF will suffer a bit more with the new Star Base system dew to the fact that most KDF fleets are dead or dying.

    My KDF main is in a fleet that was spawned of its Fed counterpart and many a night I find myself alone on the KDF fleets roster.

    The numbers are slowly dwindling on the Fed side has well but it still has about 10 or so players on at any given time.

    Sadly I fear that I may have to withdraw from my long time KDF Fleet and find a KFD Fleet that has members that do not view the KDF Faction has second class or think of it has slumming while they wear the colors.

    I think it may be time for me to take another extended leave from STO because I can’t find any reason to want to play it anymore.

    Cryptic has handled the development of STO very poorly up to this point and soon even the dedicated Fed players will be asking what is there to do here.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    What really baffles me about Cryptic's attitude toward KDF, is that it would be very easy to make improvements very quickly. The critical thing, in my mind, that is missing from KDF right now is content. It's (relatively) easy to generate new content using existing assets and tools. What KDF needs are more things to do that are actually Imperial in nature, not just Fed stuff that is graciously shared.

    Making new missions isn't a trivial effort but one of Cryptic's strengths has clearly been their mission-building toolkit. I perceive that the major stumbling block on Cryptic's part is that there is an obsession with focusing on new tech and new assets to the exclusion of storytelling and writing. It's like they think new content isn't worth generating if there isn't some tech gimmick it's bundled with, and I think Cryptic needs to get past that, and just buckle down and make content now. I'm sorry to say 2800 has that written all over -- never mind how nonsensical the story is when you're KDF, it doesn't exactly carry much water even when you play it Fed. And it's not that the whole story is TRIBBLE or anything, it's just that there are these glaring plot holes and story considerations that never get addressed. 2800 has some great tech in it, don't get me wrong, but the story was twisted like a pretzel to justify putting it all in there.

    There is a real opportunity, I think, to turn the ship around if Cryptic just puts out a slew of Klingon-only missions, merely utilizing existing tech and assets. It wouldn't be the save-all for the Klingon Empire as a faction but it's the most obvious thing that is missing from Klingon gameplay -- more story and more missions.

    Hell, what about putting in some more Foundry contests to get the player base to create missions that can be made "official?" Not that it should be necessary, but I'll take Cryptic crowd-sourcing the solution to the KDF's problems over no solution at all.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    What kills me is that there's an even easier improvement -- let people start as KDF. We only have two or three character slots, and expecting people to tie up one slot on advancing a Fed before making a KDF is just unloading your clip at your toes.

    Let people use more costumes as KDF. Why can't I use mercenary outfits on my 'human KDF member'? The model is the same! He looks completely human, but stuck in KDF outfits only! That's just STUPID!


    The first shouldn't take much time at all. The second is (from what I can tell) primarily a matter of converting objects in one database to another database, but all the data SHOULD be similar (unless they did something really weird with character design).

    That ALONE would make me feel much better. Yeah, missions would be nice, but it's just aggravating when Cryptic won't even do the basic basic improvements.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Hawks wrote: »

    Another sad part is I just read around a bit and the Feds are already whining for more stuff:

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=272073

    Silly me to think that some feds are childish in thier desires, huh?

    Evidently the numerous pets created for thier Carriers are just not enough to do the job.

    Kinda blurs the line between the fictional Borg assimilating technologies and some feds desire to do the same to anything they see as better in thier eyes.

    ok,ok, thats all from bitterness.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Indeed.

    The Feds never get enough. Sad that the Star Trek IP is executed so miserably by Cryptic in the name of sheer profit. :(
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