After your statement about bad comments or bad advice, which might mean that you may just throw out an entire post due to information being rude, despite it being accurate, I figured I'd try again with a different approach.. Here goes.
Well, no. it'sjust that was its factually wrong remains factually wrong, regardless of how much a god of PvP someone believes himself to be.
But that doesn't apply to you anyway.
The below is the way such discussions need to be done though: Instead of (what some people did) barking orders on how to change the build, explain what you have in mind, and why. Thanks for demonstrating that appraoch. ^^
Having Reverse Shield Polarity is nice, but not always necessary on a ship designed with the amount of shield healing that yours can provide. Not to mention it's long recharge can be a larger hinderence if some one uses the ever hated Subnuc against you. As it will drop your RSP, and leave you vulnerable. While if you have Emergency Power to shields, that power stays active at least 2 seconds after a Subnuc before it drops. Which, again, is why it's suggested and useful.
That's definitely something worth thinking about.
[...]
Energy Siphon 3: If you have your aux Bolstered, you can grant yourself a very high Power boost to all your subsystems, even if the power doesn't drain as well from the enemy, using it just to get a power boost while your switching your power systems is a nice way to use it for a Tac. And the higher your Aux the longer it lasts. And this power can be fired at the single target from any angle and up to 10km out.
That's an intersting idea. I'll look into it.
And lastly, the energy weapons you have choosen, being Tetryons, are among one of the lower end weapons due to the facts that the Proc can eaisly be neutralized by the amount of shield healing involved currently in the game. Phasers are still king here because their procs can actively shut down a subsystem. Also since most of your Pet have phasers, it helps to have even more Phasers for even more Shutdowns. But being that Phasers are so highly used, alot of people may run high resists to Phasers, so a second option might be, since you are a Tactical officer, to use Anti-proton Beams instead. While they don't provide a Proc like other weapons, they do give you a higher Crit Severity. An if you insist on using Beam Overload, this Crit severity may be just what you need to improve the amount of damage your beam overload provides. Not to mention Antiproton may not be getting as reissted as the Phasers, helping to increase your overall Damage.
Well, I must admit that the choice of the beam was more one of RP than of build design. The Atrox class comes equipped with (weaker) Tetryons, so I figured it would just fit to use this kind of weapons to stay "rtue to the source material". Sentimental, I know.
I hope the above information provided is more useful to you and was given in a way that you will not ignore or dismiss due to being provided in a bad light, or in a rude way.
The more important part is to explain why you recommend something, which you did.
How ever if you still feel that your build is superior and does not need ANY of the advice given, then I wish you luck with your build, and I hope that it is one that you will enjoy.
I did have some fights (1v1) today, and gained some interesting insights, as Steve Hale has mentioned. So I'll have to think a lot over the coming days.
Note, however, that even in those fights today, the ship's staying power was quite good, merely its DPS was not that high. Changing CPB for Energy Siphon might actually give the ship that extra punch that she needs
I did have some fights (1v1) today, and gained some interesting insights, as Steve Hale has mentioned. So I'll have to think a lot over the coming days.
Note, however, that even in those fights today, the ship's staying power was quite good, merely its DPS was not that high. Changing CPB for Energy Siphon might actually give the ship that extra punch that she needs
I'll have to think about that..
as helpful as everyone is being here, i just dont think you get what anyone is trying to say.
carriers are NOT capable of even mediocre dps (unless you are rocking all klingon fighter deployables). they are big science ships. and cpb will do absolutely nothing to fix that. i laugh at cpb3. and energy syphon? i can see if you rotate that and red matter capacitor along with eptx....at least your level are higher, which will give you more staying power....not damage. maybe...just maybe with tbr....
please...look at the bridge officer layout. right there you should see what the ship was meant to do.
also, 1v1 is not even close to a fair fight unless you are mirroring ship type and captain. use it to test for numbers...okay...but to take what you learned in 1v1 and try to apply it in a team setting is somewhat absurd. a lone escort should not be able to kill any other ship in the game other than an escort.....that is if the ship is being piloted (or captained...lol) to its potential.
in my escorts i can always escape a sci ship, cruiser, or carrier before i get worn down
in a cruiser i can always absorb the spike from an escort and keep on going.
against a carrier all you gotta do is park behind the behemoth and use aoe to take care of annoying pets. after that, it just does not have any weapon or bridge officer power combination that can take down abother ship. since its the slowest thing out there it can always be left behind so you can recover and then go in again.
all this talk....
its like someone trying to convince the forum regulars that they are a great support ship as an engineer in a fleet escort. "i got extends!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they would say" yeah, but you are still a ship that really cant heal anything...or do any damage. awesomesauce.
Your easy top 5% of pilots to watch out for in general pugging or team and your skillz + build is very effective in most circumstances
But you have a point sometimes you have to adapt, it very intresting to watch other experimenters like Nazzy Naz and the SP Krew and the builds they try.
I have now changed my build whereby i can switch from a traditional escort build to an anti spam scatter volley spread build with one BO switch mid game.
I can also switch in sci team if I am getting a lot of SNB love mid game too.
On the carrier build Trinity has decided to try one, it's nothing like the build in the thread and it is horrible nasty without much skill needed to play it very effectively, it's like when the Pandas made the point of playing a few in a team and showed how OP the pets are.
Kil'P ( and others) makes excellent points regarding the boff skills one should use , I would add as well to use skills that support your pet skills
i.e. if pet has a system drain skill combine with energy siphone to increase chance of effect etc
I have enough dilthiums again to purchase one just now and it'll be a full aux sci boat , or then I'll maybe wait for the star bases, you can load them with fighters ,fore, side and aft firing double cannon and they have a launchable odessy dreadnaught pet*
*All lies, well as far as i am aware but then who knows the devs minds
It's hard to let go of previously existing notions. Truth be told, this ordeal has been pretty eye opening for me too.
I like my Quantum Torp, Dual Beam, DHCx2, with a Tricobalt, Quantum, and a Turret in the back. As it stands, as deficient as this carrier build is, I'm the only one who couldn't beat him one on one. What does that say about me? Well, obviously I'm too dependent upon the people I fly with to pick up the slack that I create by having fewer energy weapons. So I suppose I need to do the same thing Sophi should do and learn from my mistakes. Back to the drawing board for me!
It's more likely that you just used the wrong tool for the job. For example, you'd probably done better to drop the tric since pet spam is very good at clearing small targetables by design. It doesn't make your build poor, but probably just needs tweeking for this specific fight based on your playstyle.
In another thread, my use of an Atrox class carrier with a tactical officer in what someone called "full zombie mode" was criticized. So, let's discuss the build of the USS Tolerance.
Fore weapons: Dual Tetryon Beam Bank, 2 Photon torpedo launchers
Deflector: Borg
Engine: Borg
Shields. Paratrinic Shield Array
Aft weapons: 3 Tetryon Beam array
Technical Consoles: 3x Neutronium Armor.
Science Console: Tachyon Detection Field, Borg Console, 2 x Field Generator
Tactical Consoles: 2 x Tetyron Pulse Generators
Hangars: Best for PvP are, of course, Advanced Dabube Runabouts, but I can get quite sentimental and use the Advanced Stalkers instead.
Boff powers:
Lt Tac: Tactical Team, Beam overload 2.
Lt Cmdr Engineering: Engineering Team 1, Reverse Shield Polarity 1, Aux to Structural 2.
Cmdr Science: Sci Team 1, Transfer Shield Strength 2, Transfer Shield Strength 3, Charged Particle Burst 3
Lt Cmdr Science: Mask Energy Signature, Sci Team 2, Hazard Emitters 3.
As you can see, this works particularily well against Klingon Birds Of Prey.
Mask Energy Signature is not that useful, as I could only use it at the beginning or after the ship was taken out, which does not happen that often. A tractor beam might be better there, and in fac t, I have an alternative Lt Com. with Sci Team 1, Hazard Emitters2 and Tractor Beam 3.
Just as one example what this ship can do (pug against what seemed to be a premade, or at least those guys were very good), click here.
The match was about equal when I started with my Stalkers, then they had found our weaknesses and I switched to Runabouts after the Tolerance was taken out for the first time. After that, it went better for us. It was along and fun match for me, and for the others, too.
What usually happens is that once the enemy team finds out that I am a tactical captain, they try to focus fire on my ship, but it just takes them too long to make the Tolerance explode, so eventually, they choose another target (or loose quickly) while the other team members pick our target. Yes, the Tolerance is not as good a tank as it would be with a Engineer or Scientist as her captain. But it is still a much better tank than an escort. So, either the ship is actually working a tank in PvP, or it is a DPS/escort hunter/healer hybrid that scores quite a few kills due to BO2 in combination with the Captain's stacked powers.
Of course, if the other team coordinates much better than mine, then the Tolerance is as much toast as any ship.
Now, I am interested in any constructive comment. ^^
Deflector : Good
Engine Good
Shield, Bad. Needs to have either Borg or Omega shield. Alternatively you can get a Regen Shield with Phaser, Disruptor, and Regen for pretty cheap and have a much better shield than what you have now.
Ditch the Dual beam bank. It is literally doing nothing for you, same deal as the torps. Half the reason I was able to out do your dps with just EPTS and Tac team is because 4 beams? Are Completely Harmless. No, I'm serious man. They are completely harmless. There is a -huge- difference in effective dps between 6 beams and 4, especially once Tac Buffs get involved. Don't believe me?
without factoring Accuracy vs Defense, weapon properties consoles, or Tac Buffs, (these are measured at 125 weapon power)
4 beams do 408.923 DPS
6 516.234 That's a difference of 108 damage Per Second That is Frigging Huge.
Now lets start adding some buffs etc.
Attack Alpha 3 + FAW 1+ Consoles
3271
6 beams same buffs etc
4130.195
That is now a difference of almost 900 DPS on broad side. 250 degrees of 4k DPS. And you -will- have this damage a hell of alot more often than that Literally you only hit me with one Dual beam and 2 torps at the start of each run... and that was only when I came at you Head On.
By the way the gap only increases (duh) when Go Down Fighting and Tactical Fleet are up.
True the gap vs 70 percent D, shrinks to only a 300 DPS Difference In Favor of the 6 Beams. But who's counting right? However once you put double Acc beams on? Gap opens right back up to 700 Damage Per Second Difference, again in favor of 6 beams.
Now what about those times when the target can't move and has a low defense? Lets see. (clicks 40 percent Defense) The gap opens up again to 800 points. What about 0 Defense? 900 points.
Also torps? Lose 90 percent of their damage to shields.
Meaning they are absolute garbage without a way to bring down a facing. And that's assuming you can use their arc frequent enough to get a shot off.
Shields, I would defnitely not go with a Patrinic shield on this ship. You have the highest shield point modifier (or tied for it) in the game. You need regeneration not SPs. You'll have more than enough SPs with an Omega or Borg shield, when your ship is properly setup. (more on this later)
Eng Consoles. You could not have picked more wrong consoles had you tried, once your shield tanking is properly setup you won't need but maybe -one- console. and that one I'd pick Ablative. 2 SIF Generators works much better. As it allows you to heal a TRIBBLE ton more damage, either on yourself or a friendly than a static damage resist who's value is questionable once your shields are down anyway. Especially once you factor in Diminishing Returns
Tachyon Detection Field, is a complete waste of a spot. I'd put my Borg here, and then go 3 Field Generators, or 2 Field Generators and a Shield Emitter
Tac Team you got right. You need this yes. Especially as a tac in a carrier. Beam Overload 2... this is on the other hand a complete waste of your ships capabilities. You don't get to fire it often enough, it misses an awful lot on Single Beam Arrays, and whats worse? Fire At Will 2 will allow you to do far more DPS overall than BO2. If you like I can get all Math Peen on you again, but I will just humbly point to Nag's DPS calculator instead. It will more than straighten that out if you are actually interested in improving your build so that it can do more than mildly tickle my shields. (or god forbid an Engineer Cruisers)
Engineering: You need Emergency power to shields. We're talking about just from the bonus resistance alone a 22 to 26 percent Damage Reduction difference in having it or not having it. This bonus lasts the full duration of the power. And this is one of the many reasons I could simply just keep balancing my shields against your weak DPS and not have to worry too much. I have EPTS1 and 2. You Need These.
At the very least you need EPTS 2. Also, EPTS boosts your shield power, which further boosts shield Regeneration, (by a rather insane amount which you'd notice if you had a shield that wasn't total TRIBBLE for the ship you're in), as well as Passive Shield Resistance (by a max of 25 percent IIRC if it maxes your shield power)
ASIF2... I really don't love this power.. Alternatively, you can try Extend Shields 2, and keep your team mates alive -easily- providing they don't fly like complete morons. However with the twin SIF Generators this power gets alot more appealing.
Cmdr Sci, Tractor Beam 1 instead of ST1. ST1s heal really isn't all that great. And with the Dev Lab Doff, you don't need more than one ST anyway. The tractor beam will also help your team mates get better position on your enemy. Tss2 and 3 Good. Carriers can be shield healing monsters (if they have a regen shield, coupled with their ridiculous shield capacity they don't need to give themselves TSS often.. or rather Non Tacs this is true for)
Charged Particle Burst 3 is a complete waste. When you dumped it on me, you weren't even tickling my shields, my build other than my Boff Powers that I use is nothing special in terms of spec department, everyone has ranks in Power Insulators, which means that the drain of CPB is just about useless in the current environment. I would put Tractor Beam Repulsors 3 in instead, or Photonic Shockwave 3. TBR3, can knock people that -have- Inertial Dampeners ranked up to 6 ranks around like a soccer ball (much like I was doing to you with mark one only worse) this breaks up focus fire easily against your team mates, seperates enemies from healers, oh and as a sweet added bonus, when fully tac buffed, can crit for over 10k per pulse. Meaning you get a crapton of extra burst DPS, that doesn't care about weapon arcs, and will work far better than any torp on any carrier ever will it also does a great deal more bleedthrough damage than a torpedo.
PSW3, can out right knock extend shields off of people which dramatically lowers their shield resistance, it stuns them so if you catch them just between buff rotations, you can turn what was a very small crack into a gaping hole in the wall for your team mates to slaughter someone through. Oh and fully tac buffed? You can 100k Crit someone.
Lt Cmdr Sci, Mask Energy Signature is useless in pvp. Especially level 1 in a live match you'll be seen at 10km out easily. I'd load up a second tractor beam so you can hit someone with one right after the other one is done. Sci Team 2, good if you can't find someone to train you Sci Team 3 (which I can), I would if you can find someone to switch them over for you, move Hazards down to HE2, and ST up to ST3.
If not, this will work fine.
I still hate your setup of being a tac in a carrier, it completely mitigates the point of being a tac which is speed, and burst dps. (and you saw how controller capable my MVAM was. And yet how tough it can be to crack, I can be even more CC friendly and arguably tougher in a Recon with that same exact character) However if you are going to insist upon doing this to yourself and others, at least change your setup to something that is without a doubt Superior.
Your current build, no offense is one that in a Team, I'd get my other Escort friend push you out with TBR, and somewhere along the way either hit you with Viral, one of your team mates with viral so they couldn't save you, and then Kedric and I would have you killed before you could hit RSP to save yourself, when it finally came time to target you. You have to eat far too much of your own heals just to survive, because of the lack of EPTS.
For Doffs, I recommend, 2 Shield Distribution Officers, 2 purple Development lab scientists (failing this, get 2 blues and a green), and a Warp Core Engineer.
Power settings, 100 to guns, 50 shields, 25, 25.
Alt power setting, 100 guns, 25 shields, 25 engine, 50 Aux. (this is your healing setting to fix team mates with)
PS: I can post screens of me popping Player Controlled Galaxy X starships, in 5v5 Arenas in a Delta flyer, that doesn't mean the flyer is a good ship for normal pvp.
[...]
Shield, Bad. Needs to have either Borg or Omega shield. Alternatively you can get a Regen Shield with Phaser, Disruptor, and Regen for pretty cheap and have a much better shield than what you have now.
Well, I do have a Borg shield in store, that's not the problem. Thing is, most of the time, I see myself trying to survive alpha strikes, and for that, I need a very high cap shield. Paratrinic is the best for that.
Even with a Borg Regen shield, Regeneration would pale next to the application of my shield healing powers. That is why I am very skeptical about using Regen shields on ships that can pump up their shields most of the time (and in team combat, as I wrote, they eventually give up on shooting at that shield tank anyway, so a high cap shield is a good insurance against them changing their minds after that break). Could you elaborate on why you think shield regeneration does matter for a ship that does much shield tanking?
Ditch the Dual beam bank. It is literally doing nothing for you, same deal as the torps. Half the reason I was able to out do your dps with just EPTS and Tac team is because 4 beams? Are Completely Harmless. No, I'm serious man. They are completely harmless. There is a -huge- difference in effective dps between 6 beams and 4, especially once Tac Buffs get involved. Don't believe me?
Well, I suspect that my captain's skills are just not how you expect them to be. Before the carrier, I used an assault cruiser (with 4 beams, 4 torps, and BO2 and THY1), and specced the captain according to that. I'll eventually respec, but only after season 6 has hit us. ^^
That's one useful tool, but it will only tell me what I already know - the problem is not that I did not know that there is some DPS difference, but that it id not look that much of a difference for me, so I made a concious decision to accept that. I guess it might be worth considering that that concious decision was just wrong.
without factoring Accuracy vs Defense, weapon properties consoles, or Tac Buffs, (these are measured at 125 weapon power)
4 beams do 408.923 DPS
6 516.234 That's a difference of 108 damage Per Second That is Frigging Huge.
Now lets start adding some buffs etc.
Attack Alpha 3 + FAW 1+ Consoles
3271
6 beams same buffs etc
4130.195
That is now a difference of almost 900 DPS on broad side. 250 degrees of 4k DPS. And you -will- have this damage a hell of alot more often than that Literally you only hit me with one Dual beam and 2 torps at the start of each run... and that was only when I came at you Head On.
Well, to my defense, escorts I encounter aren't usually as tough as yours. But I guess I'll have to try 6 beams and a "wear down over time" build more extensively.
Also torps? Lose 90 percent of their damage to shields.
Ah, I think you're not giving torps enough credit here, especially when using 3 purple projectile weapons doffs. However, you are right that I can't bring them to bear enough, just as with the DBB. So on other ships (such as my assault cruiser, torps are still excellent.
[...]
Eng Consoles. You could not have picked more wrong consoles had you tried, once your shield tanking is properly setup you won't need but maybe -one- console. and that one I'd pick Ablative. 2 SIF Generators works much better. As it allows you to heal a TRIBBLE ton more damage, either on yourself or a friendly than a static damage resist who's value is questionable once your shields are down anyway. Especially once you factor in Diminishing Returns
Well, I must say that I use this build for everything, that is, also for fighting Borg with their super.-duper-torps. 40% Resistance is neat, but maybe 30% will have to suffice in favor of other stuff like increasing power tansfer rate.... I'll have to look into that anyway when changing my build.
Tachyon Detection Field, is a complete waste of a spot. I'd put my Borg here, and then go 3 Field Generators, or 2 Field Generators and a Shield Emitter.
Well, it is handy in Ker'rat, I can tell you. There is this sun-knife that goes on everybody's nerves... but I digress.
[...]
Beam Overload 2... this is on the other hand a complete waste of your ships capabilities. You don't get to fire it often enough, it misses an awful lot on Single Beam Arrays, and whats worse? Fire At Will 2 will allow you to do far more DPS overall than BO2.
Actually? Well, that I will have to test.
Engineering: You need Emergency power to shields.
My assault cruiser had two EPTS3 - which is to say I know the use of it. However, I only have 3 slots for engineering powers, and am already short on hull heals... and RSP is a very useful thing.
In the 1v1 tests yesterday, switching the Eng Team 1 for EPTS1 did imrprove survivability, but to a point where I did npt have to use all of my shield healing powers against SteveHale's BoP, meaning it looked like wasting a slot that *could* also be used to heal others. I am still thinking about that complex, but in team combat, I'd rather have slightly less survivabilty than not having three projectable hull heals... it's a hard decision.
Charged Particle Burst 3 is a complete waste. When you dumped it on me, you weren't even tickling my shields, my build other than my Boff Powers that I use is nothing special in terms of spec department, everyone has ranks in Power Insulators, which means that the drain of CPB is just about useless in the current environment.
Well, I am fond of the decloak. I guess I will keep either TDF or CPB, knowingly accepting a slightly decreased effectiveness.
[...]
PSW3, can out right knock extend shields off of people which dramatically lowers their shield resistance, it stuns them so if you catch them just between buff rotations, you can turn what was a very small crack into a gaping hole in the wall for your team mates to slaughter someone through. Oh and fully tac buffed? You can 100k Crit someone.
100k crit? That is a number I was completely unaware of. I'll have to look into PSW3 then!
I still hate your setup of being a tac in a carrier, it completely mitigates the point of being a tac which is speed, and burst dps.
Ah, well... I just like commanding pets around, while doing some visible damage. I'd happily switch over to a fed version of the Kar'fi, but at present, there isn't any.
Could you elaborate on why you think shield regeneration does matter for a ship that does much shield tanking?
You have been fighting mainly scrub pugs. Let me explain why a regen shield on a carrier is > then a cap shield.
We target you one escort, one sci.
Escort... Rapid Fire Pew Pew Pew... you pop a bunch of shield heals.
Sci Ship... SNB
Escort laughs re applies Rapid Fire... and Pew Pew Pew... your spawning.
Or you could have a regen shield... in which case... you pop a shield bat, redistribute to the facing the escort is on... and survive.
PS on my GALOR which has a lower shield mod number then the Atrox... with ONE field gen my MK XII omega shield has almost 12k cap... on your carrier it would be more around 15k... trust me you would rather have 15k with 300-800 regen over 20k with 80-150 regen. (which is about what it is at full shield power)
Ah, I think you're not giving torps enough credit here, especially when using 3 purple projectile weapons doffs. However, you are right that I can't bring them to bear enough, just as with the DBB. So on other ships (such as my assault cruiser, torps are still excellent.
I will defend torps a bit... I still use them. Of course when I play any more 9 times out of 10 I am flying with a full premade of friends and shields going down is not really an issue.
I think what you want to keep in mind is that the Atrox has a base turn rate of5 Again... scrubs might sit in front of the carrier and wait for you to pound there shield and then follow it with torps... but no one competent will. Yes you have tractor beaming pets that may hold them there... but trust me any good team that sees you pull that one ONCE is going to remove you so fast in the next engagement that you will consider warping out.
100k crit? That is a number I was completely unaware of. I'll have to look into PSW3 then!
When playing any ship with any captain you should build to feature the strengths of the class. (ship and captain)
There are sci skills that have dmg boosts from the Tactical Cap powers... for the most part you should stick to those only.
TBR
PSW
FBP
I would rate there dmg potential in that order. Myself on a tactical carrier I would go with TBR... one it has 2k extra range and that tub doesn't turn so 2k means alot. PSW is also a good option but you will need people to get closer. FPB I mostly don't like however I could see if that being more useful for you then CPB if you tac up and full aux it before popping it under fire.
CPB is more suited to Sci captains in my view... in which case timing the shield strip with the SNB of shield abilities could create a great spike window.
You have been fighting mainly scrub pugs. Let me explain why a regen shield on a carrier is > then a cap shield.
We target you one escort, one sci.
Escort... Rapid Fire Pew Pew Pew... you pop a bunch of shield heals.
Sci Ship... SNB
Escort laughs re applies Rapid Fire... and Pew Pew Pew... your spawning.
Or you could have a regen shield... in which case... you pop a shield bat, redistribute to the facing the escort is on... and survive.
Actually, what usually happens is
Escort... Rapid Fire Pew Pew Pew... I pop TT or redistribute manually. My high cap shield transmits shield hp from the other facings and doesn't really go down below 50% over all facings.
Sci Ship... SNB
I yawn and redistribute manually until it wears off or ST becomes available again.
Escort re applies Rapid Fire... and Pew Pew Pew... I redistribute my shields manually and blow up the escort (except for the tough ones, for which I am thinking of a solution). After 15 s, I hit anotehr ST.
And if my shields are very low, I just hit RSP and they are back to full hitpoints, especially since SNB has an even longer cooldown than RSP. (Not to mention Tactical Initiative, which is quite handy in such cases...)
I'll check the figures again, thanks, but I am not very confident in regen shields, not even with 4 field generators.
The problem is that if you're against something other than the scrub pugs that Husanak refers to, you'll be taking damage, and possibly tet glider drain, on all shield facings. Your high capacity shields will still melt quickly under sustained fire from even one good escort. As to blowing up the escorts; 4 beams and a few torps will never kill a half-competent escort.
Sci Ship... SNB
I yawn and redistribute manually until it wears off or ST becomes available again.
You can't redistribute your shields manually fast enough. You do realize that a good escort with an alpha strike up will kill you in about five seconds after a nuke if you don't get heals, right?
Come back to the thread after you've survived the attentions of a Sad Panda or Spanish Inquisition escort pilot in an arena match. Then you are allowed to talk about your ship being hard to kill.
The problem is that if you're against something other than the scrub pugs that Husanak refers to, you'll be taking damage, and possibly tet glider drain, on all shield facings. Your high capacity shields will still melt quickly under sustained fire from even one good escort. As to blowing up the escorts; 4 beams and a few torps will never kill a half-competent escort.
Well, then I mostly encounter non-competent ones, but that only means I have to rework my weapon setup. The point remains that I rarely have the problem of not fastly enough regenerating shields.
You can't redistribute your shields manually fast enough. You do realize that a good escort with an alpha strike up will kill you in about five seconds after a nuke if you don't get heals, right?
[,...].
Well, if five seconds is what you are talking about, how is a regen shield which will give me some 300-800 shield hp every six seconds going to help?
Really, I'd love to seem some hard numbers on the shield issue, but all numbers I can get indicate that cap > regen for a ship that has many shield heals.
Edit: Ah, you know what? I'll open a new thread for the shield issue.
Really, I'd love to seem some hard numbers on the shield issue, but all numbers I can get indicate that cap > regen for a ship that has many shield heals.
Edit: Ah, you know what? I'll open a new thread for the shield issue.
The only ships that should be running cov shields are escorts... because they have FEW shield heals. Not the other way around. Even then to be honest every one of my escorts runs either borg or omega. In fact not one of my ships uses anything other then those shields anymore. They are superior bottom line.
No your cov will NOT regen fast enough and your shield heals will NOT keep up against a good player. I'm sorry but until I see you with a screen shot showing you tanking any of the games better escort pilots... I will take my experience over the one your claiming. Yes vs scrubs the cov is fine... hell put a mk VI shield on that carrier and 9 out of 10 pugs still won't get through it.
I don't build to survive the average players myself... if that's your thing though. Listen you have been around for a few months now... you seem to want to PvP. Start looking for teams on Opvp more often... get into some matches against the pandas that are still around many nights... or the SI guys when there around... or the 1st alpha boys. Against people that know how to play you will understand why people are telling you regen shields are the better way to go... you will be sub nuked and there will be SPIKE at the same time. You will be under constant fire... cause good teams don't have DPS sitting out. Engi cruisers doing no dmg are a thing of the past... you will have a healing cruiser all over your shield... and the min there is an opening you will get spiked... and your cov will be a massive liability...
But don't take my word for it... get into those better matches and figure it out.
I just realized that using the Borg shield, I'd also get an additional, free tractor beam... so I might give it a try, actually... and see how the lower cap works out. But I am still skeptical.
My heart weeps at the comments about CHarged Particle Burst. It was so much fun to play a CPB Tri-Cobalt Bomber. CPB was so devestating to the tiny BoPs and Escorts and allowed me to go toe to toe with them.
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Regarding the topic at hand, more specifically shield choice:
I think shield choice and power chocie affect each other here. The U.S.S. Tolerance doesn't have EPtS, so a high capacity shield seems very attractive to deal with alpha strikes. But EPtS can significantly reduce the threat of alpha strikes due to the damage reduction incurred, and the extra shield power in turn makes a regenerative shield more attractive as well.
That still may leave some vulnerability to subnucleonic beam, but I suspect t hat even finely tuned Premades will not have the perfect timing here to ensure that nothing of their alpha strike is blunted by the EPtS. before it's subnuked.
Well, I do have a Borg shield in store, that's not the problem. Thing is, most of the time, I see myself trying to survive alpha strikes, and for that, I need a very high cap shield. Paratrinic is the best for that.
Even with a Borg Regen shield, Regeneration would pale next to the application of my shield healing powers. That is why I am very skeptical about using Regen shields on ships that can pump up their shields most of the time (and in team combat, as I wrote, they eventually give up on shooting at that shield tank anyway, so a high cap shield is a good insurance against them changing their minds after that break). Could you elaborate on why you think shield regeneration does matter for a ship that does much shield tanking?
Well, I suspect that my captain's skills are just not how you expect them to be. Before the carrier, I used an assault cruiser (with 4 beams, 4 torps, and BO2 and THY1), and specced the captain according to that. I'll eventually respec, but only after season 6 has hit us. ^^
That's one useful tool, but it will only tell me what I already know - the problem is not that I did not know that there is some DPS difference, but that it id not look that much of a difference for me, so I made a concious decision to accept that. I guess it might be worth considering that that concious decision was just wrong.
Well, to my defense, escorts I encounter aren't usually as tough as yours. But I guess I'll have to try 6 beams and a "wear down over time" build more extensively.
Ah, I think you're not giving torps enough credit here, especially when using 3 purple projectile weapons doffs. However, you are right that I can't bring them to bear enough, just as with the DBB. So on other ships (such as my assault cruiser, torps are still excellent.
Well, I must say that I use this build for everything, that is, also for fighting Borg with their super.-duper-torps. 40% Resistance is neat, but maybe 30% will have to suffice in favor of other stuff like increasing power tansfer rate.... I'll have to look into that anyway when changing my build.
Well, it is handy in Ker'rat, I can tell you. There is this sun-knife that goes on everybody's nerves... but I digress.
Actually? Well, that I will have to test.
My assault cruiser had two EPTS3 - which is to say I know the use of it. However, I only have 3 slots for engineering powers, and am already short on hull heals... and RSP is a very useful thing.
In the 1v1 tests yesterday, switching the Eng Team 1 for EPTS1 did imrprove survivability, but to a point where I did npt have to use all of my shield healing powers against SteveHale's BoP, meaning it looked like wasting a slot that *could* also be used to heal others. I am still thinking about that complex, but in team combat, I'd rather have slightly less survivabilty than not having three projectable hull heals... it's a hard decision.
Well, I am fond of the decloak. I guess I will keep either TDF or CPB, knowingly accepting a slightly decreased effectiveness.
100k crit? That is a number I was completely unaware of. I'll have to look into PSW3 then!
Ah, well... I just like commanding pets around, while doing some visible damage. I'd happily switch over to a fed version of the Kar'fi, but at present, there isn't any.
With an Omega shield (which is the go to Regen shield right now due to its obscene capacity and near equality to a borg shields regeneration rate), you'll have almost as much capacity as a Maco shield (which is still a better shield than the Patrinic shield on a carrier or cruiser).
Actually the Patronic shield is not the best for a carrier to survive an alpha, as you'll be enduring (or should with your existing boff layout and shield type you wouldn't be enduring myself and Kedric very long at all) Alphas and Proper Debuffs.
Here's the thing, you're thinking about it like a zombie pilot. You shouldn't in a carrier or cruiser for that matter be thinking "My shield heals can fix me better than my regen!" Cause one it won't over the long haul and 2, you should have only 1 to 2 shield heals available at any time because you've thrown others to other friendlies. Suddenly you're without shield healing for yourself, and that shield of yours (which if you recall I was blowing through it rather easily anyway ) is going to get worn down in short order. There's nothing I enjoy more than seeing someone with a high cap shield, on a big fat ship that has no regen, and no static resist buffs going. (ie EPTS) Especially in a Team environment, where Kedric and I can just grin evily, turn our Guns to the target and send it straight to the respawn point. Also, Beam Overload? Can pierce RSP and Tac Team. So can DHC fire at times. Meaning there's a decent chance you'll still die anyway without the extra regen from Omega cranking.
It matters because you'll be exhausting far to many of your own heals and creating big gaping holes in both your team and your durability cycle. Kedric and I would shred you to pieces 15 seconds after one of your TSSs run out. Assuming we didn't just murder you right on through their application in the first place. I had no difficulty eating through your shields at all, especially when I hit you with VM or Grav well. Remember I was eating you down to 40 to 60 percent of your hull -before- your RSP could kick in. Times that by 2 and you get an idea of what having Kedric with me is like. Or you'll pop RSP while TSS is going... and waste even more healing. Kedric and I would bounce to someone else, just long enough for your RSP to die out, and then Blam we're back on you, while you still have no shield heals to speak of. (not even tac team since you'll have already used it as well) and bam. Respawn. This is also assuming Kedric and I are without sci power backing us up. If we are, then you're dead as soon as you hit the Green Diaper, because well just go "SNB plz" and finish the job. Your shield distribution wasn't even keeping up with my damage alone. And I'm not built to fully murder someone's shields. I'm setup to murder people's hulls.
I fly tac. I know exactly how tac captain powers work, short of you not speccing into them, I know exactly what kind of output they are capable of. Also, just because you have the ranks in torps doesn't mean you should use them on every ship. You can also divide your torps effective DPS by 3 since you won't be firing them that often against Skilled players in that ship. So 600 dps? Just became 200... Now remove 180 DPS from that on average. You're doing 20 (40 in your case)dps effectively with those torps. Even if you have near constant procs from your doffs (who are by the way gimping your setup even further) you're still doing far less out put than 6 beams will.
And that's with me being generous and assuming that 25 percent of the time you'll get a firing solution. Against Skilled players again though, this number is likely to be far lower.
You encounter some seriously bad escorts then. In my most aggressive setup of the high end guys I can be rather squishy at times. (as I built my ship around having a Team to assist me one way or another)
You need those two EPTSes. This gives you the ability to live longer, to help your team mates more, it also vastly increases your regeneration and shield resistance. It also provides a good solid shield heal for yourself. (even just EPTS1) This is also why you think regen shields suck, cause you don't use EPTS. I guarantee you'll never even down my Tac Cruisers facings when I'm rolling Omega shield on his vorcha. I'll simply out regen your damage and out resist it, constantly. You probably wouldn't breach my Recons shields for that matter either. (infact most people are pretty hard pressed to do that as I have like 12k shields + almost 1k per six seconds of shield regen, and that's with only one field generator for shield cap, also TSS? It's total heals are over 15 seconds... meaning you have nearly 3 ticks of shield regen before you get the full heal.) Even if you had Six Beams instead of 4.
Your aux settings are likely what's doing the detecting for you. That grid is literally doing nothing for you. The % gain of detection is minimal at best. My recon will see a bop at fairly low aux if he flies close to me without jacking up his aux (which is very common especially vs Scrub Pilots ie the ones that typically hang out in kerrat). If I jack up my aux I can see him out to like 7km.
Yes, 100k crits. Also TBR3 (or just mark 2 even) is capable of 10k crit chains. Meaning over the duration of it's ability it can do upwards of 50k if it starts a crit chain. (which is 'common' for tacs) Both are infinitely more valuable in a Team setting than CPB2 or 3.
Sure there is, it's called a Recon Science vessel + Scorpion fighters, and a deployable (like a beam turret etc).
I tried a high regen shield on the Odyssey with multiple field generators. It failed.
In theory, high regen sounds nice but in practice it only works against constant low-medium pressure. I'd say MACO is the way to go.
Again i have to agree with hilbert here. The burst in STO (if your playing a good match anyway) with some decent escort will shred any low cap, high regen shield to pieces.
I can remember I once stated another opinion on this subject, but from where it stands now, and my increased knowledge of game mechanics its Resist/cap > regen.
Maco outperforms both Omega and Borg shield by far in these good PvP match scenarios.
Maco shield regen might seem a little weak, but take both the extra Resistance in (which is 5% absorp and another build-in 10% resistance to all energy weapons) and not to forget the additional Resist AND regen from the +10 (5 stack power conduit) will give you like between 15 - 20%? extra SDR.
And here i havent even counted in the nice 5% bleedthough vs 10% for other shields, also the +10 to other subsystems havent even be calculated here yet.
Capacity is nowhere without decent resistance. Both borg and omega dont give any of that for free and the capacity on both is not that great. Lets say that having no resistance is like instapopping some pug without EptS up.
Even a high regen shield with nice capacity consoles is only a fake illusion on how great your shields would be.
About the proc from omega, it works, definately. The energy wake or whatever its called. Its nice, especially if you use a slow turn rate ship and want to do some hax with it. But its no where as effective as an evasive maneuvres, i think an extra RCS console will pretty much compensate for this whole passive ability. Yet again, its still a chance. If you really need that Turnrate against a fast moving object and the energy wake is not proccing, what then? Not saying that the Maco proc is a no chance ability, but its definately more effective.
Lets make a real nice sum up:
Highest MK XII Covariant [cap]x3 capacity or Reman Prototype Mk XII purple = Not needed.
If you build up enough resist the effective capacity of your shields will be much higher. And definately even more true when more then 1 ship is firing on you.
Never aim for absolute Highest shield capacity but try to get a mix between resist and capacity, best of both worlds. Again, you can have 20K shields for that matter, but if there is hardly any resist over them they are being shreded to pieces before you know it.
M.a.c.o is such a shield which basically gives you the innate extra resistance from a EPTS excluding what you get from added shield level points ofcourse.
Resist will give you protection to anyone fireing at you, not just 1 person. Do you feel the Extend love coming around the corner already guys?
I tried a high regen shield on the Odyssey with multiple field generators. It failed.
In theory, high regen sounds nice but in practice it only works against constant low-medium pressure. I'd say MACO is the way to go.
It's all about whether you are Extended or not as well. Oddys tend to not receive ES, because well at the end of the day they are Cruisers.
Sci ships and carriers on the other hand are much much more likely to receive ES.
There's nary a burst in the game that's going to bring down a ship that has ES, Omega and high shield power going. (specially if that ship is also carrying Tac Team, and or EPTS2)
Also oddly enough I've noticed that more than 2 field generators also tends to throw off shield tanking tremendously until you are used to the higher shield totals, and what the little shield circle is actually showing in terms of SPs. (after all yellowed bars on a 15k capacity is still +7k worth of facing)
I roll Omega on my Recon, and it's ridiculously effective for it, especially once an extends is on him. (and he only uses 1 console) I find I have to use my TSS alot less frequently when I do so, vs when I run Maco on my Recon.
Yes, back to the current Tolerance build... let me add some numbers. This is all before the weapon redesign and the change of doff stations and everything else that inevitably follows:
Power levels: 120/55/70/60
Energy transfer rate: 174% (8.7 per second)
Hull: 55459
Defense at full speed: 70% (Maximum; higher energy power won't help any more with that; half speed will drop this to 60%)
Shield capacity: 13896 per facing
Hull's resistance against anything: 40.3%
Base Accuracy: 25%
Chance on a critical hit 3,4%
Critical Severity: 59.1%
Acceleration 20
Flight speed 24
Turn rate 7.3
Base regeneration of the shield as given in the tooltip is 107, should be something like 220 with the usual power settings. Shield resistance should 20%?
Please comment. ^^
Edit: Oh, and just to add this, because I just tested it: Exchanging the TDF for a Mk XII white emitter array goves something like 4% more shield regen on the science teams and the TSS. For me, that doesn't seem like it'sworth it.
Comments
I can't stop trying to be helpful, but I may stop when I finally realize that Help is nolonger being asked for.
Well, no. it'sjust that was its factually wrong remains factually wrong, regardless of how much a god of PvP someone believes himself to be.
But that doesn't apply to you anyway.
The below is the way such discussions need to be done though: Instead of (what some people did) barking orders on how to change the build, explain what you have in mind, and why. Thanks for demonstrating that appraoch. ^^
That's definitely something worth thinking about.
That's an intersting idea. I'll look into it.
Well, I must admit that the choice of the beam was more one of RP than of build design. The Atrox class comes equipped with (weaker) Tetryons, so I figured it would just fit to use this kind of weapons to stay "rtue to the source material". Sentimental, I know.
The more important part is to explain why you recommend something, which you did.
I did have some fights (1v1) today, and gained some interesting insights, as Steve Hale has mentioned. So I'll have to think a lot over the coming days.
Note, however, that even in those fights today, the ship's staying power was quite good, merely its DPS was not that high. Changing CPB for Energy Siphon might actually give the ship that extra punch that she needs
I'll have to think about that..
as helpful as everyone is being here, i just dont think you get what anyone is trying to say.
carriers are NOT capable of even mediocre dps (unless you are rocking all klingon fighter deployables). they are big science ships. and cpb will do absolutely nothing to fix that. i laugh at cpb3. and energy syphon? i can see if you rotate that and red matter capacitor along with eptx....at least your level are higher, which will give you more staying power....not damage. maybe...just maybe with tbr....
please...look at the bridge officer layout. right there you should see what the ship was meant to do.
also, 1v1 is not even close to a fair fight unless you are mirroring ship type and captain. use it to test for numbers...okay...but to take what you learned in 1v1 and try to apply it in a team setting is somewhat absurd. a lone escort should not be able to kill any other ship in the game other than an escort.....that is if the ship is being piloted (or captained...lol) to its potential.
in my escorts i can always escape a sci ship, cruiser, or carrier before i get worn down
in a cruiser i can always absorb the spike from an escort and keep on going.
against a carrier all you gotta do is park behind the behemoth and use aoe to take care of annoying pets. after that, it just does not have any weapon or bridge officer power combination that can take down abother ship. since its the slowest thing out there it can always be left behind so you can recover and then go in again.
all this talk....
its like someone trying to convince the forum regulars that they are a great support ship as an engineer in a fleet escort. "i got extends!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they would say" yeah, but you are still a ship that really cant heal anything...or do any damage. awesomesauce.
just....awesomesauce.
horizon
Your easy top 5% of pilots to watch out for in general pugging or team and your skillz + build is very effective in most circumstances
But you have a point sometimes you have to adapt, it very intresting to watch other experimenters like Nazzy Naz and the SP Krew and the builds they try.
I have now changed my build whereby i can switch from a traditional escort build to an anti spam scatter volley spread build with one BO switch mid game.
I can also switch in sci team if I am getting a lot of SNB love mid game too.
On the carrier build Trinity has decided to try one, it's nothing like the build in the thread and it is horrible nasty without much skill needed to play it very effectively, it's like when the Pandas made the point of playing a few in a team and showed how OP the pets are.
Kil'P ( and others) makes excellent points regarding the boff skills one should use , I would add as well to use skills that support your pet skills
i.e. if pet has a system drain skill combine with energy siphone to increase chance of effect etc
I have enough dilthiums again to purchase one just now and it'll be a full aux sci boat , or then I'll maybe wait for the star bases, you can load them with fighters ,fore, side and aft firing double cannon and they have a launchable odessy dreadnaught pet*
*All lies, well as far as i am aware but then who knows the devs minds
It's more likely that you just used the wrong tool for the job. For example, you'd probably done better to drop the tric since pet spam is very good at clearing small targetables by design. It doesn't make your build poor, but probably just needs tweeking for this specific fight based on your playstyle.
Deflector : Good
Engine Good
Shield, Bad. Needs to have either Borg or Omega shield. Alternatively you can get a Regen Shield with Phaser, Disruptor, and Regen for pretty cheap and have a much better shield than what you have now.
Ditch the Dual beam bank. It is literally doing nothing for you, same deal as the torps. Half the reason I was able to out do your dps with just EPTS and Tac team is because 4 beams? Are Completely Harmless. No, I'm serious man. They are completely harmless. There is a -huge- difference in effective dps between 6 beams and 4, especially once Tac Buffs get involved. Don't believe me?
Then let Nagoroks DPS Calculator show you http://www.nagorak.com/download.html
without factoring Accuracy vs Defense, weapon properties consoles, or Tac Buffs, (these are measured at 125 weapon power)
4 beams do 408.923 DPS
6 516.234 That's a difference of 108 damage Per Second That is Frigging Huge.
Now lets start adding some buffs etc.
Attack Alpha 3 + FAW 1+ Consoles
3271
6 beams same buffs etc
4130.195
That is now a difference of almost 900 DPS on broad side. 250 degrees of 4k DPS. And you -will- have this damage a hell of alot more often than that Literally you only hit me with one Dual beam and 2 torps at the start of each run... and that was only when I came at you Head On.
By the way the gap only increases (duh) when Go Down Fighting and Tactical Fleet are up.
True the gap vs 70 percent D, shrinks to only a 300 DPS Difference In Favor of the 6 Beams. But who's counting right?
Now what about those times when the target can't move and has a low defense? Lets see. (clicks 40 percent Defense) The gap opens up again to 800 points. What about 0 Defense? 900 points.
Also torps? Lose 90 percent of their damage to shields.
Meaning they are absolute garbage without a way to bring down a facing. And that's assuming you can use their arc frequent enough to get a shot off.
Shields, I would defnitely not go with a Patrinic shield on this ship. You have the highest shield point modifier (or tied for it) in the game. You need regeneration not SPs. You'll have more than enough SPs with an Omega or Borg shield, when your ship is properly setup. (more on this later)
Eng Consoles. You could not have picked more wrong consoles had you tried, once your shield tanking is properly setup you won't need but maybe -one- console. and that one I'd pick Ablative. 2 SIF Generators works much better. As it allows you to heal a TRIBBLE ton more damage, either on yourself or a friendly than a static damage resist who's value is questionable once your shields are down anyway. Especially once you factor in Diminishing Returns
Tachyon Detection Field, is a complete waste of a spot. I'd put my Borg here, and then go 3 Field Generators, or 2 Field Generators and a Shield Emitter
Tac Team you got right. You need this yes. Especially as a tac in a carrier. Beam Overload 2... this is on the other hand a complete waste of your ships capabilities. You don't get to fire it often enough, it misses an awful lot on Single Beam Arrays, and whats worse? Fire At Will 2 will allow you to do far more DPS overall than BO2. If you like I can get all Math Peen on you again, but I will just humbly point to Nag's DPS calculator instead. It will more than straighten that out if you are actually interested in improving your build so that it can do more than mildly tickle my shields. (or god forbid an Engineer Cruisers)
Engineering: You need Emergency power to shields. We're talking about just from the bonus resistance alone a 22 to 26 percent Damage Reduction difference in having it or not having it. This bonus lasts the full duration of the power. And this is one of the many reasons I could simply just keep balancing my shields against your weak DPS and not have to worry too much. I have EPTS1 and 2. You Need These.
At the very least you need EPTS 2. Also, EPTS boosts your shield power, which further boosts shield Regeneration, (by a rather insane amount which you'd notice if you had a shield that wasn't total TRIBBLE for the ship you're in), as well as Passive Shield Resistance (by a max of 25 percent IIRC if it maxes your shield power)
ASIF2... I really don't love this power.. Alternatively, you can try Extend Shields 2, and keep your team mates alive -easily- providing they don't fly like complete morons. However with the twin SIF Generators this power gets alot more appealing.
Cmdr Sci, Tractor Beam 1 instead of ST1. ST1s heal really isn't all that great. And with the Dev Lab Doff, you don't need more than one ST anyway. The tractor beam will also help your team mates get better position on your enemy. Tss2 and 3 Good. Carriers can be shield healing monsters (if they have a regen shield, coupled with their ridiculous shield capacity they don't need to give themselves TSS often.. or rather Non Tacs this is true for)
Charged Particle Burst 3 is a complete waste. When you dumped it on me, you weren't even tickling my shields, my build other than my Boff Powers that I use is nothing special in terms of spec department, everyone has ranks in Power Insulators, which means that the drain of CPB is just about useless in the current environment. I would put Tractor Beam Repulsors 3 in instead, or Photonic Shockwave 3. TBR3, can knock people that -have- Inertial Dampeners ranked up to 6 ranks around like a soccer ball (much like I was doing to you with mark one only worse) this breaks up focus fire easily against your team mates, seperates enemies from healers, oh and as a sweet added bonus, when fully tac buffed, can crit for over 10k per pulse. Meaning you get a crapton of extra burst DPS, that doesn't care about weapon arcs, and will work far better than any torp on any carrier ever will it also does a great deal more bleedthrough damage than a torpedo.
PSW3, can out right knock extend shields off of people which dramatically lowers their shield resistance, it stuns them so if you catch them just between buff rotations, you can turn what was a very small crack into a gaping hole in the wall for your team mates to slaughter someone through. Oh and fully tac buffed? You can 100k Crit someone.
Lt Cmdr Sci, Mask Energy Signature is useless in pvp. Especially level 1 in a live match you'll be seen at 10km out easily. I'd load up a second tractor beam so you can hit someone with one right after the other one is done. Sci Team 2, good if you can't find someone to train you Sci Team 3 (which I can), I would if you can find someone to switch them over for you, move Hazards down to HE2, and ST up to ST3.
If not, this will work fine.
I still hate your setup of being a tac in a carrier, it completely mitigates the point of being a tac which is speed, and burst dps. (and you saw how controller capable my MVAM was. And yet how tough it can be to crack, I can be even more CC friendly and arguably tougher in a Recon with that same exact character) However if you are going to insist upon doing this to yourself and others, at least change your setup to something that is without a doubt Superior.
Your current build, no offense is one that in a Team, I'd get my other Escort friend push you out with TBR, and somewhere along the way either hit you with Viral, one of your team mates with viral so they couldn't save you, and then Kedric and I would have you killed before you could hit RSP to save yourself, when it finally came time to target you. You have to eat far too much of your own heals just to survive, because of the lack of EPTS.
For Doffs, I recommend, 2 Shield Distribution Officers, 2 purple Development lab scientists (failing this, get 2 blues and a green), and a Warp Core Engineer.
Power settings, 100 to guns, 50 shields, 25, 25.
Alt power setting, 100 guns, 25 shields, 25 engine, 50 Aux. (this is your healing setting to fix team mates with)
Also, that's just a heal fest you did.
More bursty. And this is in my Recon.
http://postimage.org/image/ye1ypokqd/full/
teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen characters
It was pretty effective in 1v1 !!!
Well, I do have a Borg shield in store, that's not the problem. Thing is, most of the time, I see myself trying to survive alpha strikes, and for that, I need a very high cap shield. Paratrinic is the best for that.
Even with a Borg Regen shield, Regeneration would pale next to the application of my shield healing powers. That is why I am very skeptical about using Regen shields on ships that can pump up their shields most of the time (and in team combat, as I wrote, they eventually give up on shooting at that shield tank anyway, so a high cap shield is a good insurance against them changing their minds after that break). Could you elaborate on why you think shield regeneration does matter for a ship that does much shield tanking?
Well, I suspect that my captain's skills are just not how you expect them to be. Before the carrier, I used an assault cruiser (with 4 beams, 4 torps, and BO2 and THY1), and specced the captain according to that. I'll eventually respec, but only after season 6 has hit us. ^^
That's one useful tool, but it will only tell me what I already know - the problem is not that I did not know that there is some DPS difference, but that it id not look that much of a difference for me, so I made a concious decision to accept that. I guess it might be worth considering that that concious decision was just wrong.
Well, to my defense, escorts I encounter aren't usually as tough as yours.
Ah, I think you're not giving torps enough credit here, especially when using 3 purple projectile weapons doffs. However, you are right that I can't bring them to bear enough, just as with the DBB. So on other ships (such as my assault cruiser, torps are still excellent.
Well, I must say that I use this build for everything, that is, also for fighting Borg with their super.-duper-torps. 40% Resistance is neat, but maybe 30% will have to suffice in favor of other stuff like increasing power tansfer rate.... I'll have to look into that anyway when changing my build.
Well, it is handy in Ker'rat, I can tell you. There is this sun-knife that goes on everybody's nerves... but I digress.
Actually? Well, that I will have to test.
My assault cruiser had two EPTS3 - which is to say I know the use of it. However, I only have 3 slots for engineering powers, and am already short on hull heals... and RSP is a very useful thing.
In the 1v1 tests yesterday, switching the Eng Team 1 for EPTS1 did imrprove survivability, but to a point where I did npt have to use all of my shield healing powers against SteveHale's BoP, meaning it looked like wasting a slot that *could* also be used to heal others. I am still thinking about that complex, but in team combat, I'd rather have slightly less survivabilty than not having three projectable hull heals... it's a hard decision.
Well, I am fond of the decloak. I guess I will keep either TDF or CPB, knowingly accepting a slightly decreased effectiveness.
100k crit? That is a number I was completely unaware of. I'll have to look into PSW3 then!
Ah, well... I just like commanding pets around, while doing some visible damage.
You have been fighting mainly scrub pugs. Let me explain why a regen shield on a carrier is > then a cap shield.
We target you one escort, one sci.
Escort... Rapid Fire Pew Pew Pew... you pop a bunch of shield heals.
Sci Ship... SNB
Escort laughs re applies Rapid Fire... and Pew Pew Pew... your spawning.
Or you could have a regen shield... in which case... you pop a shield bat, redistribute to the facing the escort is on... and survive.
PS on my GALOR which has a lower shield mod number then the Atrox... with ONE field gen my MK XII omega shield has almost 12k cap... on your carrier it would be more around 15k... trust me you would rather have 15k with 300-800 regen over 20k with 80-150 regen. (which is about what it is at full shield power)
I will defend torps a bit... I still use them. Of course when I play any more 9 times out of 10 I am flying with a full premade of friends and shields going down is not really an issue.
I think what you want to keep in mind is that the Atrox has a base turn rate of 5 Again... scrubs might sit in front of the carrier and wait for you to pound there shield and then follow it with torps... but no one competent will. Yes you have tractor beaming pets that may hold them there... but trust me any good team that sees you pull that one ONCE is going to remove you so fast in the next engagement that you will consider warping out.
When playing any ship with any captain you should build to feature the strengths of the class. (ship and captain)
There are sci skills that have dmg boosts from the Tactical Cap powers... for the most part you should stick to those only.
TBR
PSW
FBP
I would rate there dmg potential in that order. Myself on a tactical carrier I would go with TBR... one it has 2k extra range and that tub doesn't turn so 2k means alot. PSW is also a good option but you will need people to get closer. FPB I mostly don't like however I could see if that being more useful for you then CPB if you tac up and full aux it before popping it under fire.
CPB is more suited to Sci captains in my view... in which case timing the shield strip with the SNB of shield abilities could create a great spike window.
Actually, what usually happens is
Escort... Rapid Fire Pew Pew Pew... I pop TT or redistribute manually. My high cap shield transmits shield hp from the other facings and doesn't really go down below 50% over all facings.
Sci Ship... SNB
I yawn and redistribute manually until it wears off or ST becomes available again.
Escort re applies Rapid Fire... and Pew Pew Pew... I redistribute my shields manually and blow up the escort (except for the tough ones, for which I am thinking of a solution). After 15 s, I hit anotehr ST.
And if my shields are very low, I just hit RSP and they are back to full hitpoints, especially since SNB has an even longer cooldown than RSP. (Not to mention Tactical Initiative, which is quite handy in such cases...)
I'll check the figures again, thanks, but I am not very confident in regen shields, not even with 4 field generators.
Come back to the thread after you've survived the attentions of a Sad Panda or Spanish Inquisition escort pilot in an arena match. Then you are allowed to talk about your ship being hard to kill.
Well, then I mostly encounter non-competent ones, but that only means I have to rework my weapon setup. The point remains that I rarely have the problem of not fastly enough regenerating shields.
Well, if five seconds is what you are talking about, how is a regen shield which will give me some 300-800 shield hp every six seconds going to help?
Really, I'd love to seem some hard numbers on the shield issue, but all numbers I can get indicate that cap > regen for a ship that has many shield heals.
Edit: Ah, you know what? I'll open a new thread for the shield issue.
The only ships that should be running cov shields are escorts... because they have FEW shield heals. Not the other way around. Even then to be honest every one of my escorts runs either borg or omega. In fact not one of my ships uses anything other then those shields anymore. They are superior bottom line.
No your cov will NOT regen fast enough and your shield heals will NOT keep up against a good player. I'm sorry but until I see you with a screen shot showing you tanking any of the games better escort pilots... I will take my experience over the one your claiming. Yes vs scrubs the cov is fine... hell put a mk VI shield on that carrier and 9 out of 10 pugs still won't get through it.
I don't build to survive the average players myself... if that's your thing though. Listen you have been around for a few months now... you seem to want to PvP. Start looking for teams on Opvp more often... get into some matches against the pandas that are still around many nights... or the SI guys when there around... or the 1st alpha boys. Against people that know how to play you will understand why people are telling you regen shields are the better way to go... you will be sub nuked and there will be SPIKE at the same time. You will be under constant fire... cause good teams don't have DPS sitting out. Engi cruisers doing no dmg are a thing of the past... you will have a healing cruiser all over your shield... and the min there is an opening you will get spiked... and your cov will be a massive liability...
But don't take my word for it... get into those better matches and figure it out.
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Regarding the topic at hand, more specifically shield choice:
I think shield choice and power chocie affect each other here. The U.S.S. Tolerance doesn't have EPtS, so a high capacity shield seems very attractive to deal with alpha strikes. But EPtS can significantly reduce the threat of alpha strikes due to the damage reduction incurred, and the extra shield power in turn makes a regenerative shield more attractive as well.
That still may leave some vulnerability to subnucleonic beam, but I suspect t hat even finely tuned Premades will not have the perfect timing here to ensure that nothing of their alpha strike is blunted by the EPtS. before it's subnuked.
I would suggest experimenting here.
With an Omega shield (which is the go to Regen shield right now due to its obscene capacity and near equality to a borg shields regeneration rate), you'll have almost as much capacity as a Maco shield (which is still a better shield than the Patrinic shield on a carrier or cruiser).
Actually the Patronic shield is not the best for a carrier to survive an alpha, as you'll be enduring (or should with your existing boff layout and shield type you wouldn't be enduring myself and Kedric very long at all) Alphas and Proper Debuffs.
Here's the thing, you're thinking about it like a zombie pilot. You shouldn't in a carrier or cruiser for that matter be thinking "My shield heals can fix me better than my regen!" Cause one it won't over the long haul and 2, you should have only 1 to 2 shield heals available at any time because you've thrown others to other friendlies. Suddenly you're without shield healing for yourself, and that shield of yours (which if you recall I was blowing through it rather easily anyway ) is going to get worn down in short order. There's nothing I enjoy more than seeing someone with a high cap shield, on a big fat ship that has no regen, and no static resist buffs going. (ie EPTS) Especially in a Team environment, where Kedric and I can just grin evily, turn our Guns to the target and send it straight to the respawn point. Also, Beam Overload? Can pierce RSP and Tac Team. So can DHC fire at times. Meaning there's a decent chance you'll still die anyway without the extra regen from Omega cranking.
It matters because you'll be exhausting far to many of your own heals and creating big gaping holes in both your team and your durability cycle. Kedric and I would shred you to pieces 15 seconds after one of your TSSs run out. Assuming we didn't just murder you right on through their application in the first place. I had no difficulty eating through your shields at all, especially when I hit you with VM or Grav well. Remember I was eating you down to 40 to 60 percent of your hull -before- your RSP could kick in. Times that by 2 and you get an idea of what having Kedric with me is like. Or you'll pop RSP while TSS is going... and waste even more healing. Kedric and I would bounce to someone else, just long enough for your RSP to die out, and then Blam we're back on you, while you still have no shield heals to speak of. (not even tac team since you'll have already used it as well) and bam. Respawn. This is also assuming Kedric and I are without sci power backing us up. If we are, then you're dead as soon as you hit the Green Diaper, because well just go "SNB plz" and finish the job. Your shield distribution wasn't even keeping up with my damage alone. And I'm not built to fully murder someone's shields. I'm setup to murder people's hulls.
I fly tac. I know exactly how tac captain powers work, short of you not speccing into them, I know exactly what kind of output they are capable of. Also, just because you have the ranks in torps doesn't mean you should use them on every ship. You can also divide your torps effective DPS by 3 since you won't be firing them that often against Skilled players in that ship. So 600 dps? Just became 200... Now remove 180 DPS from that on average. You're doing 20 (40 in your case)dps effectively with those torps. Even if you have near constant procs from your doffs (who are by the way gimping your setup even further) you're still doing far less out put than 6 beams will.
And that's with me being generous and assuming that 25 percent of the time you'll get a firing solution. Against Skilled players again though, this number is likely to be far lower.
You encounter some seriously bad escorts then. In my most aggressive setup of the high end guys I can be rather squishy at times. (as I built my ship around having a Team to assist me one way or another)
You need those two EPTSes. This gives you the ability to live longer, to help your team mates more, it also vastly increases your regeneration and shield resistance. It also provides a good solid shield heal for yourself. (even just EPTS1) This is also why you think regen shields suck, cause you don't use EPTS. I guarantee you'll never even down my Tac Cruisers facings when I'm rolling Omega shield on his vorcha. I'll simply out regen your damage and out resist it, constantly. You probably wouldn't breach my Recons shields for that matter either. (infact most people are pretty hard pressed to do that as I have like 12k shields + almost 1k per six seconds of shield regen, and that's with only one field generator for shield cap, also TSS? It's total heals are over 15 seconds... meaning you have nearly 3 ticks of shield regen before you get the full heal.) Even if you had Six Beams instead of 4.
Your aux settings are likely what's doing the detecting for you. That grid is literally doing nothing for you. The % gain of detection is minimal at best. My recon will see a bop at fairly low aux if he flies close to me without jacking up his aux (which is very common especially vs Scrub Pilots ie the ones that typically hang out in kerrat). If I jack up my aux I can see him out to like 7km.
Yes, 100k crits. Also TBR3 (or just mark 2 even) is capable of 10k crit chains. Meaning over the duration of it's ability it can do upwards of 50k if it starts a crit chain. (which is 'common' for tacs) Both are infinitely more valuable in a Team setting than CPB2 or 3.
Sure there is, it's called a Recon Science vessel + Scorpion fighters, and a deployable (like a beam turret etc).
In theory, high regen sounds nice but in practice it only works against constant low-medium pressure. I'd say MACO is the way to go.
This is bolstered by the fact the proc actually works, where as I don't think the proc for Omega is working right/at all last I checked.
It works.
It would be almost unnoticable on a big, slow ship, but it definately does work
Again i have to agree with hilbert here. The burst in STO (if your playing a good match anyway) with some decent escort will shred any low cap, high regen shield to pieces.
I can remember I once stated another opinion on this subject, but from where it stands now, and my increased knowledge of game mechanics its Resist/cap > regen.
Maco outperforms both Omega and Borg shield by far in these good PvP match scenarios.
Maco shield regen might seem a little weak, but take both the extra Resistance in (which is 5% absorp and another build-in 10% resistance to all energy weapons) and not to forget the additional Resist AND regen from the +10 (5 stack power conduit) will give you like between 15 - 20%? extra SDR.
And here i havent even counted in the nice 5% bleedthough vs 10% for other shields, also the +10 to other subsystems havent even be calculated here yet.
Capacity is nowhere without decent resistance. Both borg and omega dont give any of that for free and the capacity on both is not that great. Lets say that having no resistance is like instapopping some pug without EptS up.
Even a high regen shield with nice capacity consoles is only a fake illusion on how great your shields would be.
About the proc from omega, it works, definately. The energy wake or whatever its called. Its nice, especially if you use a slow turn rate ship and want to do some hax with it. But its no where as effective as an evasive maneuvres, i think an extra RCS console will pretty much compensate for this whole passive ability. Yet again, its still a chance. If you really need that Turnrate against a fast moving object and the energy wake is not proccing, what then? Not saying that the Maco proc is a no chance ability, but its definately more effective.
Lets make a real nice sum up:
Highest MK XII Covariant [cap]x3 capacity or Reman Prototype Mk XII purple = Not needed.
If you build up enough resist the effective capacity of your shields will be much higher. And definately even more true when more then 1 ship is firing on you.
Never aim for absolute Highest shield capacity but try to get a mix between resist and capacity, best of both worlds. Again, you can have 20K shields for that matter, but if there is hardly any resist over them they are being shreded to pieces before you know it.
M.a.c.o is such a shield which basically gives you the innate extra resistance from a EPTS excluding what you get from added shield level points ofcourse.
Resist will give you protection to anyone fireing at you, not just 1 person. Do you feel the Extend love coming around the corner already guys?
It's all about whether you are Extended or not as well. Oddys tend to not receive ES, because well at the end of the day they are Cruisers.
Sci ships and carriers on the other hand are much much more likely to receive ES.
There's nary a burst in the game that's going to bring down a ship that has ES, Omega and high shield power going. (specially if that ship is also carrying Tac Team, and or EPTS2)
Also oddly enough I've noticed that more than 2 field generators also tends to throw off shield tanking tremendously until you are used to the higher shield totals, and what the little shield circle is actually showing in terms of SPs. (after all yellowed bars on a 15k capacity is still +7k worth of facing)
I roll Omega on my Recon, and it's ridiculously effective for it, especially once an extends is on him. (and he only uses 1 console) I find I have to use my TSS alot less frequently when I do so, vs when I run Maco on my Recon.
To be honest it depends on build , pug, premade, and skill of a player.
A thread was made, let us dispute there and get back on subject.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=272885
Let the Dispute BEGIN sigh again .
Power levels: 120/55/70/60
Energy transfer rate: 174% (8.7 per second)
Hull: 55459
Defense at full speed: 70% (Maximum; higher energy power won't help any more with that; half speed will drop this to 60%)
Shield capacity: 13896 per facing
Hull's resistance against anything: 40.3%
Base Accuracy: 25%
Chance on a critical hit 3,4%
Critical Severity: 59.1%
Acceleration 20
Flight speed 24
Turn rate 7.3
Base regeneration of the shield as given in the tooltip is 107, should be something like 220 with the usual power settings. Shield resistance should 20%?
Please comment. ^^
Edit: Oh, and just to add this, because I just tested it: Exchanging the TDF for a Mk XII white emitter array goves something like 4% more shield regen on the science teams and the TSS. For me, that doesn't seem like it'sworth it.