Okay, so the general belief is obviously that this build is not good at what it was designed for, despite me providing proof that it does quite well in PvP.
But did you verify that there aren't builds that are even better? In a PuG scenario, a lot of stuff "works", sometimes just because you beat your enemies with situational awareness and reaction time.
Okay, so the general belief is obviously that this build is not good at what it was designed for, despite me providing proof that it does quite well in PvP.
So, anyone willing to test it in about ten hours and proving me how wrong I am? For example, any confident BoP captain for a 1v1?
Or a 5v5 with me on one side? Really, if what I experience in PUGs using the queue is just so bad, then someone please show me proper play.
All these people are going out of their way to give you good advice at your request inferred by your origional post only to be dismissive and in some ways condecending. Your objectives are a bit ambiguous and it makes you come off as a troll
Okay, so the general belief is obviously that this build is not good at what it was designed for, despite me providing proof that it does quite well in PvP.
So, anyone willing to test it in about ten hours and proving me how wrong I am? For example, any confident BoP captain for a 1v1?
Or a 5v5 with me on one side? Really, if what I experience in PUGs using the queue is just so bad, then someone please show me proper play.
If I recall.. we met in Ker'rat.. and I did kill you a few times in my B'rel-R.. Not every single pass, granted. And a couple times I did it when you were not distracted by the Borg.
Now then, you have had quite a few PVPers who are definitely my superiors in terms of build and concept aid come into this thread and point out areas that you are either lacking in, or should consider revising. (Husnak especially) Yet you have thrown out what they have had to say because you feel that your build is superior to their advice with maybe one exception, and it's MES being swapped out for Tractor Beam 1.
All on the proof that a single screen shot, while with a pug, supposedly provides. And even then that Screenshot is hardly good evidence in your builds strength. Why, you may ask? It's because the numbers in the End of a match are flawed because the numbers are not all based soly on your exact performance in the match.
They don't show EXACTLY how many kills YOU PERSONALLY were able to claim, for example. It's all shared kills. The damage (witih pets added) are not reflected to the damage that you necessarely do to a single target. This is especially so when AOE attacks come into play. And Healing also doesn't just judge what healing you did to OTHER PLAYERs, but takes into account any and all self healing you do to your self as well as the heal you maybe threw out at the other people on your team.
All of which is a flawed way to try and track how you did in that match.
Now if you showed us Parser data from the match showing how well your ship performed, as well as the pets you were using at that time, in addition a Youtube video to prove that your ship does as well as you claim vs a true Premade, with you helping another team to victory.. Then you might have the viable proof to show off your carrier and provide the evidence that it is a good build to try for a tac captian.
Until then you are going to have people trying to help you, because we see flaws in your build that we have either tested our selves or have seen for our selves in the work of other players. And we want to try to help a fellow PVPer with his build, as he originally asked for. IF you really did not want this help, and you were simply trying to instead "Ego Stroke" and asking for challanges, I'm sure you will get your wish and I hope that your ego does not get harmed in the process. :cool:
And to clearify, you seem to be showing a Build that you claim is an Anti-BoP design. And while it's fine to be worried about the Dreaded BoP.. If it's just ONE BoP, and not an expert pilot of the BoP that you are worried about, you have not yet faced a true threat and I expect with your decleration of requests for 1v1 or 5v5 with your self included, you will find those players and you will see how tough your build truelly is.
Maybe my self, and some of the others who have been posting will be proven wrong and your build will turn out to be the next big thing for a Tac. If it is, cool. But I'm expecting it to not be and if you want more help, don't hesitate to ask, we'll be glad to provide it some more, as long as your willing to listen and not dismiss those of us willing to give out the help that you may seek at that time.
I would be happy to help you out, and I know that a lot of other people in the OPvP channel would be happy to help as well. We're not asses, we've just seen what you're talking about before and people become a little tired of seeing the same stuff over and over again with people saying that it works when we know it doesn't .
Very well, when I 'm online in the game again, let's test it. Thanks in advance. ^^
That does not mean, however, that I wouldn't happily have some others here do the same. More input is always better, and actual fights beat talking by an order of magnitude.
As for the ships flown, I have 5 max level characters and none of them are in the BoP as it is simply not my preferred ship type, but the fact of the matter is that the Raptor is every bit as mean as a BoP if not more so, so if you can tank one of those (or my tac's experimental Bortasqu' design ) then then you'd be alright.
Actually, I'd expect rather more, but that's even better for seeing what the build does. Although there is little point in decloaking you then, of course.
But did you verify that there aren't builds that are even better? In a PuG scenario, a lot of stuff "works", sometimes just because you beat your enemies with situational awareness and reaction time.
That is quite possible! I mean, I am not doing this thread because I don't want to see what others think.
However, some of the advice here is just factually wrong (while other stuff seems useful, and again other stuff is useful but disregarding what i'm trying to do with this build), and if you look at all the posts in the thread, you will find bad advice as well. .
If I recall.. we met in Ker'rat.. and I did kill you a few times in my B'rel-R.. Not every single pass, granted. And a couple times I did it when you were not distracted by the Borg.
Well, the only cases I remember such things happening was when several BoPs were either attacking at once or when all my abilities where on cooldown due to having just escaped a horde of Borg cubes and spheres... so that's probably not a good test.
Now then, you have had quite a few PVPers who are definitely my superiors in terms of build and concept aid come into this thread and point out areas that you are either lacking in, or should consider revising. (Husnak especially) Yet you have thrown out what they have had to say because you feel that your build is superior to their advice with maybe one exception, and it's MES being swapped out for Tractor Beam 1.
Some of that stuff ist just wrong, as written above.
MES vs TB? Well, that is one thing I see myself in the same way, as written in the OP. I just ahppen to find it cool to be able to "cloak".
The problem with "it's all TRIBBLE!" or "I dont know where to start!" advice is that it does not really show anything. Such people would be better off fighting my ship and then showing what they mean, as explaining doesn't seem to be their best skill.
All on the proof that a single screen shot, while with a pug, supposedly provides. And even then that Screenshot is hardly good evidence in your builds strength. Why, you may ask? It's because the numbers in the End of a match are flawed because the numbers are not all based soly on your exact performance in the match.
Again, it is not an exception, and most of those 11 kills where actual enemy ship explosions. But of course, it is possible that I am just having luck with weak opponents and don't realize it.
Now if you showed us Parser data from the match showing how well your ship performed, as well as the pets you were using at that time,
As I am using the German language client, I'd have to write my own parser software. I'd rather go and fight in space during my free time.
Until then you are going to have people trying to help you, because we see flaws in your build that we have either tested our selves or have seen for our selves in the work of other players.
But that's cool! It happens that I disagree with some advice, however, and say so. But don't think that any statement here will not let me think about it.
Maybe my self, and some of the others who have been posting will be proven wrong and your build will turn out to be the next big thing for a Tac. If it is, cool. But I'm expecting it to not be and if you want more help, don't hesitate to ask, we'll be glad to provide it some more, as long as your willing to listen and not dismiss those of us willing to give out the help that you may seek at that time.
I am totally fond of the PvPer community spirit of trying to help. But I have found in the past that there are posters here who get things wrong, and it is not trivial for me to distinguish good advice from bad advice. That's why I think fights are more helpful than, if you will "change your bhuild!" orders.
Feel free to fly with or against me. My eng is flying an Atrox, and to face the music, you should compare yourself to an Atrox which is more build with its innate strenghts in mind.
I reject that the seemingly harsh comments, are anything but constructive. We're really just trying to help you.
That is quite possible! I mean, I am not doing this thread because I don't want to see what others think.
However, some of the advice here is just factually wrong.
1. Yes it sounds like you did
2. No it isn't. Scanning, this thread there are a LOT of good ideas on here all of which would make your build better, not really any fail suggestions yet.
Okay, so the general belief is obviously that this build is not good at what it was designed for, despite me providing proof that it does quite well in PvP.
So, anyone willing to test it in about ten hours and proving me how wrong I am? For example, any confident BoP captain for a 1v1?
Or a 5v5 with me on one side? Really, if what I experience in PUGs using the queue is just so bad, then someone please show me proper play.
[...]
2. No it isn't. Scanning, this thread there are a LOT of good ideas on here all of which would make your build better, not really any fail suggestions yet.
Are you saying that you don't see any wrong advice in this thread? :eek:
I hope you continue to fly in whatever way makes you happy. Minimax has an unconventional build that is generally dismissed but affords him some pretty spectacular victories. Who cares that it doesn't have the full PvP community stamp of approval? If its fun then have fun with it:)! Another thing to notice about a guy like Minimax is that he stands by his build no matter the opponent or the circumstances of an engagement.
I tell you all of that to illustrate the point that flying what you want is all good and well but you have to be comfortable with your limitations, particularly those imposed upon you by your own decisions. If you run a zombie build you have to expect that multiple attackers are going to focus you. The same applies if you are pumping out cheese like runabouts, for example.
When pugging you may find that you are focused a lot and with little support. Or you may find opponents who don't have any damage (a carriers dream). You claim to have great success with this build and yet when someone brings damage you complain from the respawning point.
Any of the advice here would serve to make you stronger and benefit your team. If that's not your thing then that's your choice. But you have to recognize that if a Carrier or a Cruiser loses against a single BoP or Escort then they are doing it very, very wrong.
[...]
[...]You claim to have great success with this build and yet when someone brings damage you complain from the respawning point.
Huh? I sometimes, depending on my mood, complain about too large team sizes when being blown up by large teams focus-firing on my ship, but that is hardly relevant here, as no ship will survive that.
Any of the advice here would serve to make you stronger and benefit your team. If that's not your thing then that's your choice.
I strongly reject the "any" in your statement. There is really bad advice among the above posts. Yes, there is also good one - such as dropping the Tachyon Detection Field, which i generally agree with from an optimization PoV, but I just want that ability without having to command a Nebula, for the coolness in it.
Yes, just as you indicate, I am perfectly fine with my concious decisions to sacrifice power for coolness (specifically, MES and the TDF console). I just observe that the ship performs quite well in PvP despite those decisions, and am a bit puzzled that so many don't believe me.
But you have to recognize that if a Carrier or a Cruiser loses against a single BoP or Escort then they are doing it very, very wrong.
The amount of "very" in your statement should depend on the amount of time needed by that single ship, shouldn't it. Especially when that time regularily (though of course not always, depending on the opposing player and his buid) is more time than the escort has to stay in battle, because it blows up before that point.
Which is not to mean that I don't like to hear opinions of all kinds about the build, good ones, bad ones, really bad ones and even really, really bad ones.
Really, people, It's not as if I wasn't reading and thinking about it. ^^
I'm the first one to advocate a good build as the foundation of success in pvp, but there is a difference between a good build and a maximally optimised one. The latter is certainly not necessary for pvp success outside of high level premades.
Your basic bridge officer setup is sound. Some choices are uncommon (4 team abilities, no EPtS, MES), but overall it's a fairly solid setup.
The gear is certainly weird with only 90° arc weapons in your forward slots on a ship that turns extremely slowly, but if it works for you, then why not?
I wouldn't field a tactical carrier in a serious premade team, but as someone who has flown a full aux tactical starcruiser healer in just-for-fun semi-premades, I can say from experience that even without an optimised build one can be useful in a team.
Pilot skill is always an important factor. You can put a total noob in the best ship, loaded with the coolest tools, and watch them be completely worthless. Similarly you can put someone with a clue in a golf ball ship, for example, and they'll do just fine. Of course, then team dynamics become a factor. I'm can acknowledge my general worthlessness in the absence of significant support.
Pilot skill is always an important factor. You can put a total noob in the best ship, loaded with the coolest tools, and watch them be completely worthless. Similarly you can put someone with a clue in a golf ball ship, for example, and they'll do just fine. Of course, then team dynamics become a factor. I'm can acknowledge my general worthlessness in the absence of significant support.
No one is worthless. You can still serve as a bad example!
No one is worthless. You can still serve as a bad example!
Mustrum "Exhibit A" Ridcully
But would yo say that the Tolerance is a particularily bad example? If so, there must be tons of even worse examples out there, from my PvP experience with this ship...
But would yo say that the Tolerance is a particularily bad example? If so, there must be tons of even worse examples out there, from my PvP experience with this ship...
I haven't seen you in play yet, so I don't know. I think the build is suboptimal.
In another thread, my use of an Atrox class carrier with a tactical officer in what someone called "full zombie mode" was criticized. So, let's discuss the build of the USS Tolerance.
Fore weapons: Dual Tetryon Beam Bank, 2 Photon torpedo launchers
Deflector: Borg
Engine: Borg
Shields. Paratrinic Shield Array
Aft weapons: 3 Tetryon Beam arrays
Technical Consoles: 3x Neutronium Armor.
Science Console: Tachyon Detection Field, Borg Console, 2 x Field Generator
Tactical Consoles: 2 x Tetyron Pulse Generators
Hangars: Best for PvP are, of course, Advanced Dabube Runabouts, but I can get quite sentimental and use the Advanced Stalkers instead.
Boff powers:
Lt Tac: Tactical Team, Beam overload 2.
Lt Cmdr Engineering: Engineering Team 1, Reverse Shield Polarity 1, Aux to Structural 2.
Cmdr Science: Sci Team 1, Transfer Shield Strength 2, Transfer Shield Strength 3, Charged Particle Burst 3
Lt Cmdr Science: Mask Energy Signature, Sci Team 2, Hazard Emitters 3.
After your statement about bad comments or bad advice, which might mean that you may just throw out an entire post due to information being rude, despite it being accurate, I figured I'd try again with a different approach.. Here goes.
The carrier you propose for a tactical does not seem to be as optimized to it's fullest potential. It lacks a full 360 degree fireing arc that full beam arrays can provide. Weapon power is usually not an issue if you use powers that don't drain it, such as Beam Overload can do. And while Beam overload might provide a useful spike shot, it will then drop your overall DPS for a moment while your Weapon power recharges, if you let it. Other wise it will take slightly longer to recharge, which can cause it to seem that on an all beam based ship, that your weapon power stays down. Which is why, on a Carrier, beam overload is not suggested, especially when the carrier comes with it's own default Target Subsystem powers that you can cycle through for Disable effects, never lowering your sustained DPS, and giving you freedom to run either Attack Pattern Beta, Attack Pattern Delta, or if you choose to continue to run torpeodes, High Yield or Torpedo Spread.
The reason to have an Emergency Power to Shields, is to provide you with a reliable and eaisly used shield healing power on your self that povides: Shield recovery, Shield Power increase, and Shield Resistance boosts to your self, Giving you a more reliable power that you can always use on your self, and less reliance on shield recovery powers such as Transfer Shield Strength, or Science Team on your self, and allowing you to still be able to use those powers on your team or your self when threatened by firepower that a single application of Emergency Power to shields can't handle alone.
Having Reverse Shield Polarity is nice, but not always necessary on a ship designed with the amount of shield healing that yours can provide. Not to mention it's long recharge can be a larger hinderence if some one uses the ever hated Subnuc against you. As it will drop your RSP, and leave you vulnerable. While if you have Emergency Power to shields, that power stays active at least 2 seconds after a Subnuc before it drops. Which, again, is why it's suggested and useful.
I personally have no issues with having Tactical Team 1, Engineering team 1, and a single Science Team. It can allow you to clear any and all powers that have counters from those three team abilities. But at the disadvantage of putting the other two Team powers on cool down. From my experience, my Engineer Classed characters can rely on that more then others becuase it has other powers to support the other team powers being on cool down. As a Tactical Captian, you do not have the same luxury. So it is recommended to have nothing more then 2 Team powers. In your ship, I would recommend Tactical Team 1, and Science Team 3 with Doffs used to reduce the cool down to the Global time of 15 Seconds for Science Team 3. Or If you felt you don't need Tac team 1, you can also use Engineering Team 3 and Science Team 3 for more healing abilities. How ever that might take up at least 4 DOFF slots if you can afford the Very Rare Doffs to reduce both Science team and Engineering Team down to 15 Second Global cool downs.
Aux to Structual is a very useful power. Especially if your using high Aux power and Aux Batteries to increase your Aux to increase Aux to Structual's healing and resistance boosts that it provides. I never say to throw it away on the Carrier. It is a Carrier's best friend in any situation.
Mask energy signature, while a neat Idea, is not as useful below version 2, since the range of Stealth it provides is much lower then Mask Energy Signature 2 and 3 or Cloak and Battle cloak. Tractor Beam 1, Jam Sensors 1, or Polarized hull 1 are much better fits because they can provide better aid to both the team or your self in various situations. Tractor Beam 1 can help lock down an enemy that you and your team are fireing on, increasing your and your teams damage especially when Critical hits are counted. Jam sensors gives you a way to evade heavy fire from at least one Target while continueing to focus on another and reducing the pressure your feeling to allow more healing and support. Polarized Hull, even though it shares a cool down with Hazard Emitters, can grant you personal resistance boosts, and gives you immunity vs Tractor Beam Repulsors and Tractor Beams. And there are times when getting pushed around by Tractor Beam Repulsors hurts you more then helps you. Especially if some one is trying to push you away from your team to aid in an alpha strike from enemy Escorts and other ships.
Charged particle burst used to be very useful. And even though it can also be helpful in assisting the Decloaking of ships, being a Tactical officer, even with Max rank training in Sensors, you will still not have the same capibilities in finding cloaked ships as a Science captian would due to their Sensor Scan power. Also the Charged Particle bursts shield damage now gets defended against by the apporiate skills. Also in a game where healing happens frequently, weither it's a friendly ships help, or the Borg shield recovery proc, Charged Particle Burst has been made really only useful in the PVE areas of the game. Powers that might be more useful to you are:
Photonic Shockwave 3: Despite the Area being smaller then Charged Particle burst, it provides a good Kinetic Damage that can be bolstered by Tactical Powers. It also grants a stun that can be used to disable enemy powers such as Eject Warp Plasma, Vent theta Radiation, or Extend shields to name the most noticed powers it will turn off.
Energy Siphon 3: If you have your aux Bolstered, you can grant yourself a very high Power boost to all your subsystems, even if the power doesn't drain as well from the enemy, using it just to get a power boost while your switching your power systems is a nice way to use it for a Tac. And the higher your Aux the longer it lasts. And this power can be fired at the single target from any angle and up to 10km out.
Viral Matrix 3: Even though this is on a 90 Degree front arc, it does have a usefulness of being used to help cause chaos against an enemy target, weither it's using it on an Escort to aid in shutting down his Engines and weapons, or against a healer or enemy Carrier to shut down their Engines and Aux, this power is a great one to have. And you can use a single Doff to give you a chance to have another Viral Matrix affect that target.
Gravity Well 3: Another 90 degree Arc power, this one is very useful in crowd control when the amount of mine and Pet spam has become more and more rampant. Despite it's low seeming damage, using your Tactical buffs you can make the damage at least useful in helping to destroy some of the heavier hulled Pets and against a players bare hull it can also hurt the player if they don't have a good and healthy amount of Kinetic Resists. It also has a Doff to give you a chance to get multiple Gravity Wells to spawn, unfortunately they are Gravity well 1 versions and not additional Gravity well 3 copies.
Tractor Beam Repulsors 3: First, this powers damage is not Aux Based, just like Photonic Shockwave. second the lower the aux, the lower the push. If your worried about the Push that is. How ever, the push is still high. The Damage can be boosted by your Tac powers, but can be made immune by Polarized Hull, and highly resisted by Brace for Impact which has alot of Shield heal Doffs also attached to it lately. While Attack Pattern Omega might make you immune to the push, it does NOT remove the Kinetic Damage that you can still dish out. Aux to Damp how ever seems to als obe a good defense against Tractor Repulsors. Tractor Repulsors can be used to help clear some spam, but it's restricted to 3 beams at a time. So that is 3 targets randomly chosen at a time.
And lastly, the energy weapons you have choosen, being Tetryons, are among one of the lower end weapons due to the facts that the Proc can eaisly be neutralized by the amount of shield healing involved currently in the game. Phasers are still king here because their procs can actively shut down a subsystem. Also since most of your Pet have phasers, it helps to have even more Phasers for even more Shutdowns. But being that Phasers are so highly used, alot of people may run high resists to Phasers, so a second option might be, since you are a Tactical officer, to use Anti-proton Beams instead. While they don't provide a Proc like other weapons, they do give you a higher Crit Severity. An if you insist on using Beam Overload, this Crit severity may be just what you need to improve the amount of damage your beam overload provides. Not to mention Antiproton may not be getting as reissted as the Phasers, helping to increase your overall Damage.
I hope the above information provided is more useful to you and was given in a way that you will not ignore or dismiss due to being provided in a bad light, or in a rude way. How ever if you still feel that your build is superior and does not need ANY of the advice given, then I wish you luck with your build, and I hope that it is one that you will enjoy.
After your statement about bad comments or bad advice, which might mean that you may just throw out an entire post due to information being rude, despite it being accurate, I figured I'd try again with a different approach.. Here goes.
The carrier you propose for a tactical does not seem to be as optimized to it's fullest potential. It lacks a full 360 degree fireing arc that full beam arrays can provide. Weapon power is usually not an issue if you use powers that don't drain it, such as Beam Overload can do. And while Beam overload might provide a useful spike shot, it will then drop your overall DPS for a moment while your Weapon power recharges, if you let it. Other wise it will take slightly longer to recharge, which can cause it to seem that on an all beam based ship, that your weapon power stays down. Which is why, on a Carrier, beam overload is not suggested, especially when the carrier comes with it's own default Target Subsystem powers that you can cycle through for Disable effects, never lowering your sustained DPS, and giving you freedom to run either Attack Pattern Beta, Attack Pattern Delta, or if you choose to continue to run torpeodes, High Yield or Torpedo Spread.
The reason to have an Emergency Power to Shields, is to provide you with a reliable and eaisly used shield healing power on your self that povides: Shield recovery, Shield Power increase, and Shield Resistance boosts to your self, Giving you a more reliable power that you can always use on your self, and less reliance on shield recovery powers such as Transfer Shield Strength, or Science Team on your self, and allowing you to still be able to use those powers on your team or your self when threatened by firepower that a single application of Emergency Power to shields can't handle alone.
Having Reverse Shield Polarity is nice, but not always necessary on a ship designed with the amount of shield healing that yours can provide. Not to mention it's long recharge can be a larger hinderence if some one uses the ever hated Subnuc against you. As it will drop your RSP, and leave you vulnerable. While if you have Emergency Power to shields, that power stays active at least 2 seconds after a Subnuc before it drops. Which, again, is why it's suggested and useful.
I personally have no issues with having Tactical Team 1, Engineering team 1, and a single Science Team. It can allow you to clear any and all powers that have counters from those three team abilities. But at the disadvantage of putting the other two Team powers on cool down. From my experience, my Engineer Classed characters can rely on that more then others becuase it has other powers to support the other team powers being on cool down. As a Tactical Captian, you do not have the same luxury. So it is recommended to have nothing more then 2 Team powers. In your ship, I would recommend Tactical Team 1, and Science Team 3 with Doffs used to reduce the cool down to the Global time of 15 Seconds for Science Team 3. Or If you felt you don't need Tac team 1, you can also use Engineering Team 3 and Science Team 3 for more healing abilities. How ever that might take up at least 4 DOFF slots if you can afford the Very Rare Doffs to reduce both Science team and Engineering Team down to 15 Second Global cool downs.
Aux to Structual is a very useful power. Especially if your using high Aux power and Aux Batteries to increase your Aux to increase Aux to Structual's healing and resistance boosts that it provides. I never say to throw it away on the Carrier. It is a Carrier's best friend in any situation.
Mask energy signature, while a neat Idea, is not as useful below version 2, since the range of Stealth it provides is much lower then Mask Energy Signature 2 and 3 or Cloak and Battle cloak. Tractor Beam 1, Jam Sensors 1, or Polarized hull 1 are much better fits because they can provide better aid to both the team or your self in various situations. Tractor Beam 1 can help lock down an enemy that you and your team are fireing on, increasing your and your teams damage especially when Critical hits are counted. Jam sensors gives you a way to evade heavy fire from at least one Target while continueing to focus on another and reducing the pressure your feeling to allow more healing and support. Polarized Hull, even though it shares a cool down with Hazard Emitters, can grant you personal resistance boosts, and gives you immunity vs Tractor Beam Repulsors and Tractor Beams. And there are times when getting pushed around by Tractor Beam Repulsors hurts you more then helps you. Especially if some one is trying to push you away from your team to aid in an alpha strike from enemy Escorts and other ships.
Charged particle burst used to be very useful. And even though it can also be helpful in assisting the Decloaking of ships, being a Tactical officer, even with Max rank training in Sensors, you will still not have the same capibilities in finding cloaked ships as a Science captian would due to their Sensor Scan power. Also the Charged Particle bursts shield damage now gets defended against by the apporiate skills. Also in a game where healing happens frequently, weither it's a friendly ships help, or the Borg shield recovery proc, Charged Particle Burst has been made really only useful in the PVE areas of the game. Powers that might be more useful to you are:
Photonic Shockwave 3: Despite the Area being smaller then Charged Particle burst, it provides a good Kinetic Damage that can be bolstered by Tactical Powers. It also grants a stun that can be used to disable enemy powers such as Eject Warp Plasma, Vent theta Radiation, or Extend shields to name the most noticed powers it will turn off.
Energy Siphon 3: If you have your aux Bolstered, you can grant yourself a very high Power boost to all your subsystems, even if the power doesn't drain as well from the enemy, using it just to get a power boost while your switching your power systems is a nice way to use it for a Tac. And the higher your Aux the longer it lasts. And this power can be fired at the single target from any angle and up to 10km out.
Viral Matrix 3: Even though this is on a 90 Degree front arc, it does have a usefulness of being used to help cause chaos against an enemy target, weither it's using it on an Escort to aid in shutting down his Engines and weapons, or against a healer or enemy Carrier to shut down their Engines and Aux, this power is a great one to have. And you can use a single Doff to give you a chance to have another Viral Matrix affect that target.
Gravity Well 3: Another 90 degree Arc power, this one is very useful in crowd control when the amount of mine and Pet spam has become more and more rampant. Despite it's low seeming damage, using your Tactical buffs you can make the damage at least useful in helping to destroy some of the heavier hulled Pets and against a players bare hull it can also hurt the player if they don't have a good and healthy amount of Kinetic Resists. It also has a Doff to give you a chance to get multiple Gravity Wells to spawn, unfortunately they are Gravity well 1 versions and not additional Gravity well 3 copies.
And lastly, the energy weapons you have choosen, being Tetryons, are among one of the lower end weapons due to the facts that the Proc can eaisly be neutralized by the amount of shield healing involved currently in the game. Phasers are still king here because their procs can actively shut down a subsystem. Also since most of your Pet have phasers, it helps to have even more Phasers for even more Shutdowns. But being that Phasers are so highly used, alot of people may run high resists to Phasers, so a second option might be, since you are a Tactical officer, to use Anti-proton Beams instead. While they don't provide a Proc like other weapons, they do give you a higher Crit Severity. An if you insist on using Beam Overload, this Crit severity may be just what you need to improve the amount of damage your beam overload provides. Not to mention Antiproton may not be getting as reissted as the Phasers, helping to increase your overall Damage.
I hope the above information provided is more useful to you and was given in a way that you will not ignore or dismiss due to being provided in a bad light, or in a rude way. How ever if you still feel that your build is superior and does not need ANY of the advice given, then I wish you luck with your build, and I hope that it is one that you will enjoy.
Stop trying Tea, You cant fill a Cup that is already full!
It's hard to let go of previously existing notions. Truth be told, this ordeal has been pretty eye opening for me too.
I like my Quantum Torp, Dual Beam, DHCx2, with a Tricobalt, Quantum, and a Turret in the back. As it stands, as deficient as this carrier build is, I'm the only one who couldn't beat him one on one. What does that say about me? Well, obviously I'm too dependent upon the people I fly with to pick up the slack that I create by having fewer energy weapons. So I suppose I need to do the same thing Sophi should do and learn from my mistakes. Back to the drawing board for me!
I figured I would also share a build that poped in my head that may be an interesting Idea to use:
"Unlimited Power!"
Lt Tac: Tac team 1 or Beam Overload 1, Beta 1 or Beam Overload 2
Ltc Engi: Emergency power to Weapons 1, Aux to Sif 1, Emergency Power to Shields 3
LtC Sci: Tractor Beam 1 or Jam Sensors 1, Hazard Emitters 2, Science team 3
Cmd Sci: Tractor Beam 1 or Jam Sensors 1, Hazard Emitters 2, Transfer Shield Strength 3, Energy Siphon 3
Energy Settings:
Weapons /75
Shields /50
Engines /25
Aux /50
This build should give you a way to Beam Overload respectively and keep your power settings high by using Energy Siphon 3, and Cycling Emergency Power to Weapons and shields.
Recommended Doffs: 2x Very rare Brace for Impact Shield Doffs, 2x Very Rare Science team Doffs, 1x Very rare Emergecy Power Doffs (The ones that provide extra power when you activate an Emergency power to, Power)
Comments
All these people are going out of their way to give you good advice at your request inferred by your origional post only to be dismissive and in some ways condecending. Your objectives are a bit ambiguous and it makes you come off as a troll
If I recall.. we met in Ker'rat.. and I did kill you a few times in my B'rel-R.. Not every single pass, granted. And a couple times I did it when you were not distracted by the Borg.
Now then, you have had quite a few PVPers who are definitely my superiors in terms of build and concept aid come into this thread and point out areas that you are either lacking in, or should consider revising. (Husnak especially) Yet you have thrown out what they have had to say because you feel that your build is superior to their advice with maybe one exception, and it's MES being swapped out for Tractor Beam 1.
All on the proof that a single screen shot, while with a pug, supposedly provides. And even then that Screenshot is hardly good evidence in your builds strength. Why, you may ask? It's because the numbers in the End of a match are flawed because the numbers are not all based soly on your exact performance in the match.
They don't show EXACTLY how many kills YOU PERSONALLY were able to claim, for example. It's all shared kills. The damage (witih pets added) are not reflected to the damage that you necessarely do to a single target. This is especially so when AOE attacks come into play. And Healing also doesn't just judge what healing you did to OTHER PLAYERs, but takes into account any and all self healing you do to your self as well as the heal you maybe threw out at the other people on your team.
All of which is a flawed way to try and track how you did in that match.
Now if you showed us Parser data from the match showing how well your ship performed, as well as the pets you were using at that time, in addition a Youtube video to prove that your ship does as well as you claim vs a true Premade, with you helping another team to victory.. Then you might have the viable proof to show off your carrier and provide the evidence that it is a good build to try for a tac captian.
Until then you are going to have people trying to help you, because we see flaws in your build that we have either tested our selves or have seen for our selves in the work of other players. And we want to try to help a fellow PVPer with his build, as he originally asked for. IF you really did not want this help, and you were simply trying to instead "Ego Stroke" and asking for challanges, I'm sure you will get your wish and I hope that your ego does not get harmed in the process. :cool:
And to clearify, you seem to be showing a Build that you claim is an Anti-BoP design. And while it's fine to be worried about the Dreaded BoP.. If it's just ONE BoP, and not an expert pilot of the BoP that you are worried about, you have not yet faced a true threat and I expect with your decleration of requests for 1v1 or 5v5 with your self included, you will find those players and you will see how tough your build truelly is.
Maybe my self, and some of the others who have been posting will be proven wrong and your build will turn out to be the next big thing for a Tac. If it is, cool. But I'm expecting it to not be and if you want more help, don't hesitate to ask, we'll be glad to provide it some more, as long as your willing to listen and not dismiss those of us willing to give out the help that you may seek at that time.
Very well, when I 'm online in the game again, let's test it. Thanks in advance. ^^
That does not mean, however, that I wouldn't happily have some others here do the same. More input is always better, and actual fights beat talking by an order of magnitude.
Actually, I'd expect rather more, but that's even better for seeing what the build does. Although there is little point in decloaking you then, of course.
That is quite possible! I mean, I am not doing this thread because I don't want to see what others think.
However, some of the advice here is just factually wrong (while other stuff seems useful, and again other stuff is useful but disregarding what i'm trying to do with this build), and if you look at all the posts in the thread, you will find bad advice as well.
Well, the only cases I remember such things happening was when several BoPs were either attacking at once or when all my abilities where on cooldown due to having just escaped a horde of Borg cubes and spheres... so that's probably not a good test.
Some of that stuff ist just wrong, as written above.
MES vs TB? Well, that is one thing I see myself in the same way, as written in the OP. I just ahppen to find it cool to be able to "cloak".
The problem with "it's all TRIBBLE!" or "I dont know where to start!" advice is that it does not really show anything. Such people would be better off fighting my ship and then showing what they mean, as explaining doesn't seem to be their best skill.
Again, it is not an exception, and most of those 11 kills where actual enemy ship explosions. But of course, it is possible that I am just having luck with weak opponents and don't realize it.
As I am using the German language client, I'd have to write my own parser software. I'd rather go and fight in space during my free time.
But that's cool! It happens that I disagree with some advice, however, and say so. But don't think that any statement here will not let me think about it.
I am totally fond of the PvPer community spirit of trying to help. But I have found in the past that there are posters here who get things wrong, and it is not trivial for me to distinguish good advice from bad advice. That's why I think fights are more helpful than, if you will "change your bhuild!" orders.
I reject that the seemingly harsh comments, are anything but constructive. We're really just trying to help you.
1. Yes it sounds like you did
2. No it isn't. Scanning, this thread there are a LOT of good ideas on here all of which would make your build better, not really any fail suggestions yet.
you just painted a BIG target on your beeehind.
Are you saying that you don't see any wrong advice in this thread? :eek:
Just a couple bad posts. Nothing that is much weaker than your build :P
And with 6 weapon slots your power will be fine with 6 beam arrays.
Yet nobody cared to tell those bad post-authors that they err.
I am not talking about some theory, but I measured it. That may be due to my Captain's skill selection, but I won't respec before Season 6.
I tell you all of that to illustrate the point that flying what you want is all good and well but you have to be comfortable with your limitations, particularly those imposed upon you by your own decisions. If you run a zombie build you have to expect that multiple attackers are going to focus you. The same applies if you are pumping out cheese like runabouts, for example.
When pugging you may find that you are focused a lot and with little support. Or you may find opponents who don't have any damage (a carriers dream). You claim to have great success with this build and yet when someone brings damage you complain from the respawning point.
Any of the advice here would serve to make you stronger and benefit your team. If that's not your thing then that's your choice. But you have to recognize that if a Carrier or a Cruiser loses against a single BoP or Escort then they are doing it very, very wrong.
Huh? I sometimes, depending on my mood, complain about too large team sizes when being blown up by large teams focus-firing on my ship, but that is hardly relevant here, as no ship will survive that.
I strongly reject the "any" in your statement. There is really bad advice among the above posts. Yes, there is also good one - such as dropping the Tachyon Detection Field, which i generally agree with from an optimization PoV, but I just want that ability without having to command a Nebula, for the coolness in it.
Yes, just as you indicate, I am perfectly fine with my concious decisions to sacrifice power for coolness (specifically, MES and the TDF console). I just observe that the ship performs quite well in PvP despite those decisions, and am a bit puzzled that so many don't believe me.
The amount of "very" in your statement should depend on the amount of time needed by that single ship, shouldn't it. Especially when that time regularily (though of course not always, depending on the opposing player and his buid) is more time than the escort has to stay in battle, because it blows up before that point.
(It's one of my favourite screenshots and I simply can't resist posting it.
Which is not to mean that I don't like to hear opinions of all kinds about the build, good ones, bad ones, really bad ones and even really, really bad ones.
Really, people, It's not as if I wasn't reading and thinking about it. ^^
That's a very interesting statement, as most PvPers will claim the opposite. Care to elaborate on that? ^^
Your basic bridge officer setup is sound. Some choices are uncommon (4 team abilities, no EPtS, MES), but overall it's a fairly solid setup.
The gear is certainly weird with only 90° arc weapons in your forward slots on a ship that turns extremely slowly, but if it works for you, then why not?
I wouldn't field a tactical carrier in a serious premade team, but as someone who has flown a full aux tactical starcruiser healer in just-for-fun semi-premades, I can say from experience that even without an optimised build one can be useful in a team.
Mustrum "Exhibit A" Ridcully
But would yo say that the Tolerance is a particularily bad example? If so, there must be tons of even worse examples out there, from my PvP experience with this ship...
I am only as good as those I am teamed with in combat.
Mustrum "Mang, I was just making a quip" Ridcully
After your statement about bad comments or bad advice, which might mean that you may just throw out an entire post due to information being rude, despite it being accurate, I figured I'd try again with a different approach.. Here goes.
The carrier you propose for a tactical does not seem to be as optimized to it's fullest potential. It lacks a full 360 degree fireing arc that full beam arrays can provide. Weapon power is usually not an issue if you use powers that don't drain it, such as Beam Overload can do. And while Beam overload might provide a useful spike shot, it will then drop your overall DPS for a moment while your Weapon power recharges, if you let it. Other wise it will take slightly longer to recharge, which can cause it to seem that on an all beam based ship, that your weapon power stays down. Which is why, on a Carrier, beam overload is not suggested, especially when the carrier comes with it's own default Target Subsystem powers that you can cycle through for Disable effects, never lowering your sustained DPS, and giving you freedom to run either Attack Pattern Beta, Attack Pattern Delta, or if you choose to continue to run torpeodes, High Yield or Torpedo Spread.
The reason to have an Emergency Power to Shields, is to provide you with a reliable and eaisly used shield healing power on your self that povides: Shield recovery, Shield Power increase, and Shield Resistance boosts to your self, Giving you a more reliable power that you can always use on your self, and less reliance on shield recovery powers such as Transfer Shield Strength, or Science Team on your self, and allowing you to still be able to use those powers on your team or your self when threatened by firepower that a single application of Emergency Power to shields can't handle alone.
Having Reverse Shield Polarity is nice, but not always necessary on a ship designed with the amount of shield healing that yours can provide. Not to mention it's long recharge can be a larger hinderence if some one uses the ever hated Subnuc against you. As it will drop your RSP, and leave you vulnerable. While if you have Emergency Power to shields, that power stays active at least 2 seconds after a Subnuc before it drops. Which, again, is why it's suggested and useful.
I personally have no issues with having Tactical Team 1, Engineering team 1, and a single Science Team. It can allow you to clear any and all powers that have counters from those three team abilities. But at the disadvantage of putting the other two Team powers on cool down. From my experience, my Engineer Classed characters can rely on that more then others becuase it has other powers to support the other team powers being on cool down. As a Tactical Captian, you do not have the same luxury. So it is recommended to have nothing more then 2 Team powers. In your ship, I would recommend Tactical Team 1, and Science Team 3 with Doffs used to reduce the cool down to the Global time of 15 Seconds for Science Team 3. Or If you felt you don't need Tac team 1, you can also use Engineering Team 3 and Science Team 3 for more healing abilities. How ever that might take up at least 4 DOFF slots if you can afford the Very Rare Doffs to reduce both Science team and Engineering Team down to 15 Second Global cool downs.
Aux to Structual is a very useful power. Especially if your using high Aux power and Aux Batteries to increase your Aux to increase Aux to Structual's healing and resistance boosts that it provides. I never say to throw it away on the Carrier. It is a Carrier's best friend in any situation.
Mask energy signature, while a neat Idea, is not as useful below version 2, since the range of Stealth it provides is much lower then Mask Energy Signature 2 and 3 or Cloak and Battle cloak. Tractor Beam 1, Jam Sensors 1, or Polarized hull 1 are much better fits because they can provide better aid to both the team or your self in various situations. Tractor Beam 1 can help lock down an enemy that you and your team are fireing on, increasing your and your teams damage especially when Critical hits are counted. Jam sensors gives you a way to evade heavy fire from at least one Target while continueing to focus on another and reducing the pressure your feeling to allow more healing and support. Polarized Hull, even though it shares a cool down with Hazard Emitters, can grant you personal resistance boosts, and gives you immunity vs Tractor Beam Repulsors and Tractor Beams. And there are times when getting pushed around by Tractor Beam Repulsors hurts you more then helps you. Especially if some one is trying to push you away from your team to aid in an alpha strike from enemy Escorts and other ships.
Charged particle burst used to be very useful. And even though it can also be helpful in assisting the Decloaking of ships, being a Tactical officer, even with Max rank training in Sensors, you will still not have the same capibilities in finding cloaked ships as a Science captian would due to their Sensor Scan power. Also the Charged Particle bursts shield damage now gets defended against by the apporiate skills. Also in a game where healing happens frequently, weither it's a friendly ships help, or the Borg shield recovery proc, Charged Particle Burst has been made really only useful in the PVE areas of the game. Powers that might be more useful to you are:
Photonic Shockwave 3: Despite the Area being smaller then Charged Particle burst, it provides a good Kinetic Damage that can be bolstered by Tactical Powers. It also grants a stun that can be used to disable enemy powers such as Eject Warp Plasma, Vent theta Radiation, or Extend shields to name the most noticed powers it will turn off.
Energy Siphon 3: If you have your aux Bolstered, you can grant yourself a very high Power boost to all your subsystems, even if the power doesn't drain as well from the enemy, using it just to get a power boost while your switching your power systems is a nice way to use it for a Tac. And the higher your Aux the longer it lasts. And this power can be fired at the single target from any angle and up to 10km out.
Viral Matrix 3: Even though this is on a 90 Degree front arc, it does have a usefulness of being used to help cause chaos against an enemy target, weither it's using it on an Escort to aid in shutting down his Engines and weapons, or against a healer or enemy Carrier to shut down their Engines and Aux, this power is a great one to have. And you can use a single Doff to give you a chance to have another Viral Matrix affect that target.
Gravity Well 3: Another 90 degree Arc power, this one is very useful in crowd control when the amount of mine and Pet spam has become more and more rampant. Despite it's low seeming damage, using your Tactical buffs you can make the damage at least useful in helping to destroy some of the heavier hulled Pets and against a players bare hull it can also hurt the player if they don't have a good and healthy amount of Kinetic Resists. It also has a Doff to give you a chance to get multiple Gravity Wells to spawn, unfortunately they are Gravity well 1 versions and not additional Gravity well 3 copies.
Tractor Beam Repulsors 3: First, this powers damage is not Aux Based, just like Photonic Shockwave. second the lower the aux, the lower the push. If your worried about the Push that is. How ever, the push is still high. The Damage can be boosted by your Tac powers, but can be made immune by Polarized Hull, and highly resisted by Brace for Impact which has alot of Shield heal Doffs also attached to it lately. While Attack Pattern Omega might make you immune to the push, it does NOT remove the Kinetic Damage that you can still dish out. Aux to Damp how ever seems to als obe a good defense against Tractor Repulsors. Tractor Repulsors can be used to help clear some spam, but it's restricted to 3 beams at a time. So that is 3 targets randomly chosen at a time.
And lastly, the energy weapons you have choosen, being Tetryons, are among one of the lower end weapons due to the facts that the Proc can eaisly be neutralized by the amount of shield healing involved currently in the game. Phasers are still king here because their procs can actively shut down a subsystem. Also since most of your Pet have phasers, it helps to have even more Phasers for even more Shutdowns. But being that Phasers are so highly used, alot of people may run high resists to Phasers, so a second option might be, since you are a Tactical officer, to use Anti-proton Beams instead. While they don't provide a Proc like other weapons, they do give you a higher Crit Severity. An if you insist on using Beam Overload, this Crit severity may be just what you need to improve the amount of damage your beam overload provides. Not to mention Antiproton may not be getting as reissted as the Phasers, helping to increase your overall Damage.
I hope the above information provided is more useful to you and was given in a way that you will not ignore or dismiss due to being provided in a bad light, or in a rude way. How ever if you still feel that your build is superior and does not need ANY of the advice given, then I wish you luck with your build, and I hope that it is one that you will enjoy.
Stop trying Tea, You cant fill a Cup that is already full!
There you go, how arrogant did that statement sound? Bit like this thread
I like my Quantum Torp, Dual Beam, DHCx2, with a Tricobalt, Quantum, and a Turret in the back. As it stands, as deficient as this carrier build is, I'm the only one who couldn't beat him one on one. What does that say about me? Well, obviously I'm too dependent upon the people I fly with to pick up the slack that I create by having fewer energy weapons. So I suppose I need to do the same thing Sophi should do and learn from my mistakes. Back to the drawing board for me!
"Unlimited Power!"
Lt Tac: Tac team 1 or Beam Overload 1, Beta 1 or Beam Overload 2
Ltc Engi: Emergency power to Weapons 1, Aux to Sif 1, Emergency Power to Shields 3
LtC Sci: Tractor Beam 1 or Jam Sensors 1, Hazard Emitters 2, Science team 3
Cmd Sci: Tractor Beam 1 or Jam Sensors 1, Hazard Emitters 2, Transfer Shield Strength 3, Energy Siphon 3
Energy Settings:
Weapons /75
Shields /50
Engines /25
Aux /50
This build should give you a way to Beam Overload respectively and keep your power settings high by using Energy Siphon 3, and Cycling Emergency Power to Weapons and shields.
Recommended Doffs: 2x Very rare Brace for Impact Shield Doffs, 2x Very Rare Science team Doffs, 1x Very rare Emergecy Power Doffs (The ones that provide extra power when you activate an Emergency power to, Power)