Turrets had nothing to do with what I posted. Read what I posted again.
In order to get scorpion fighters you need to run a shuttle FE. In order to get peregrine fighters you need to pay money and hope that the lockbox you open has them out of the many, many items it could give you. The peregrine fighter is on a timer and has a number of charges to it. The scorpion fighters are very weak offensively and defensively, and have charges too.
Neither scorpion fighters or peregrine fighters have the capabilities or usefulness of actual carrier pets. As I explained in the post that you quoted.
Scorpion fighters, specifically, are a damage trinket on a fairly long timer that summons highly expendable mobs. Also, they do not, unless stated, stack with carrier pet counts. So unless they fixed that in the past few months, you could field them with carrier pets too. So I fail to see how exactly you don't see what i'm saying..
Eh ... look at it this way ...
1- The carrier is happening.
1a- though it's probably going to be a "flight deck" carrier, which is just a nice way of saying it'll be the Fed's Kar'Fi. But probably turn better since everything turns better than that steampunk Yamamoto.
2- A lot of people will use Scorpions with whatever gets made. (If they can, which means Cryptic allows them to get equipped to it, which I think is highly likely).
3- And a lot of people will also use Peregrines with it (again, as long as Cryptic doesn't restrict their use).
4- And deployable turrets.
5- And heck, if DPS isn't a concern and people just want to be all hipster about it, toss in a tactical layout with a TON of mines ...
And viola. Mission accomplished in terms of Fed Spam Boat ... I mean Fed response to the KDF carrier.
Roach mentioned turrets and those are a type of pet. As for control Sick and heel, really? That's pretty much all you get.
Oh we were and are dealing with it, then you showed up to use justifications to grind our noses in it. Right good sports conduct that is.
The turrets don't stack with carrier caps either. Meaning a carrier could just drop one with his pets. Also, being that turrets are on a cooldown, have no AI settings, and come in stacks, they have nowhere near the flexibility or level of danger a carrier pet squadron poses.
The turrets don't stack with carrier caps either. Meaning a carrier could just drop one with his pets. Also, being that turrets are on a cooldown, have no AI settings, and come in stacks, they have nowhere near the flexibility or level of danger a carrier pet squadron poses.
Why are we even discussing this? You have a carrier on the way. Deal with it, I have.
Yet you want to give something ORIGINAL to the KDF to the feds? Are you trying to kill the 2nd faction? the second this thing comes out the KDF population will go down a lot and believe me with all the freebers hopping on lately I've seen up to Qo'Nos First City #100. Why are you doing this? Please tell me. I am an avid fan of Both factions but it seems so much to me that you enjoy torturing one.
I highly doubt I am going to get a response but I hope logical people like Katic and Roach come in this thread to fend for the Blade Of Destiny. The Bat'Leth wielders must have some originality.
I think you're over analyzing this too much - If a freakin KDF Carrier is the sole savior of the Faction, then how mighty my Empire has fallen, how we Klinks have fallen indeed.
I could care less if the Feds get the same type of Carrier the KDF has - want the salvation for the Empire? - The Devs need to get off their arses and start producing genuine content for the KDF Faction.
This whole "originality" argument is BS that reeks to the high heavens, what personally motivates me to play the KDF is Death and Glory - not a lame @ss carrier - such argument is for the weak minded (with all due respect) - More KDF content equates to more players coming on board.
"Build it and they shall come" - Plain and simple - The problem is, the Devs have given up on us.
Losing the so called "Originality" will hardly cause a dent on the KDF population, truth is nobody cares about the thing. If anything, a rival Carrier may have the opposite effect and cause players to have Carrier vs Carrier PvP battles at the most. yet, this is being blown way out of proportion, what will really kill the KDF is the Dev's lack of enthusiasm and their monetary argument that the KDF are not worthy of completion.
Basically D'Stahl has driven a stake through the heart of the Empire in order to please those that run the books. :mad:
And yet you assume that they aren't going to differentiate things to keep the factions unique from each other with the Fed side? That's making an awful long leap there, isn't it?
It is my opinion that they will continue to blur the lines between the factions as the feds continue to ask for things that others have and they do not until a point is reached that allows for no difference in playstyle choices.
Yes, they took the "Defiant" approach to it. That is, strip out all of the comfortable stuff, and turn it into a raging engine of mass destruction at the expense of comfort or livability.
Also, no it was not as powerful as an armed shuttle. It was much stronger. They weren't fielding shuttles in large numbers during Sacrifice of Angels. I don't even know how you'd think that, if you watched the show they featured in. They made specific references to it having an ungodly amount of firepower to it in the show. Again, the thing basically took the approach the Defiant had.
I got that opinion from here http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Federation_attack_fighter
From such quotes as;
"Large numbers of these ships were used by Starfleet in the Dominion War. During Operation Return, eight successive waves of fighters were sent to attack the Cardassian ships of a Dominion fleet, hoping to provoke them into breaking formation and creating an opening for the Federation fleet."
A diversion? This mighty vessel was only a diversion.
They where used as trainer craft and while they armenent was described at one point as impressive, the term "ungodly firepower" is only you opinion as the shows never demostrated any such ability and from watching them not perform very well in combat against ships far larger and more heavily armed than themselves, I would agree that they where hardly a force to be reckoned with in combat.
By the way. Guess what situation Starfleet is in in-game now?
The same situation that all the factions are in and the Devs have handled it with the Caittain FDC concept and you can buy the Peregrine fighter craft as well ingame, regardless if you have a cruiser, escort of science vessel.
Where are you lacking in capability to throw men into combat in fighters?
Again. Read up on my posts. Also, on a side note, you quoted the same post twice. One to give a bunch of one liners, and now this.
So what is the fed regulated response posting limit?
If you had been paying attention to STO's development, you'd realize it incorporates a ton of EU and soft canon stuff. They do not have to, and will not go just by what is seen on a TV screen. That would be stupid.
I've been here since the begining and have watched the whole game grow.
Do you seriously think a CGI designer back during DS9 actually stopped one day and thought to himself "Gee, I should add in a scene of this obviously over-armed fighter docking, so as to resolve incredibly anal arguments between nerds in the future?". Or do you think he was interested in making cool scenes where starships blew each other up to make sure he didn't get fired and the show didn't get canceled for being boring to most people?
I never saw the CGI guys let the Negh'var launch fighter craft iether so some nerds in the future would not argue over wether the KDF used such tactics and yet soft cannon describes those vessels and others in the Klingon fleet as having fighters craft for use in planetary attacks.
Starfleet does counter military advantages. See, everything they do to counter the Romulans messing with them in TNG. You also don't seem to understand just why a carrier ship is so neat for just about any organization. You don't have to use it to send stuff out to blow other, presumably hostile, stuff up. You can use it for search and rescue, to deliver aid, to encompass a wider area of a given location then one ship or person could ever hope to achieve.
All roles that have been to biliwack of teh federation cruiser class vessels.
Carriers are not just about putting as much "dakka" out there as possible. They are about force projection. They can get something somewhere, and back to safety again more reliably then any plane or vehicle could hope if it had to try and make the journey itself.
Another role that the Cruiser has excelled in in Star Trek.
Any build and ship can be a turret spammer. Some can do it really well, in fact.
You don't seem to understand, however, that not every ship can strip the shields off of things with tetryon blasts from a full grouping of turrets, so the dozen fighters lining up for a strike against it off to the side can spam photon torpedoes at a rate no cap ship can on the empty facing for massive damage while the Vo'Quv tractors the ship in place.
Any ship that mounts tetryons, has the proper shield stripping BOff abilities, mounts phased Polarons and uses the Scorpian or now, Peregrine fighters can.
I never said that the KDF shouldn't get a science vessel. I was pointing out that you were very naive to think that one faction was going to get a set of ships that filled the role that the opposite faction had exclusivity on at one point, and then never expected the same thing to happen for the Feds for the KDF mirror.
I never said that it wasn't expected. Infact its been expected for a long time.
I said the Devs have handled as well as they handled us, KDF, getting science vessels. Through through the use of non-direct means. In this case and in the case of the Gorn KDF science vessels, by going outside the main factions identity.
Also, again, on paper doesn't matter. Guess what? The TV shows are not the only source. In fact, aside from the initial world-building, they play a very small part in the game, if you pay attention. You can see a ton of legacy characters hanging around the game world. Never mind characters and events, sometimes altered, from the novels.
When did I say they didn't? I've advocated the whole of Star trek genre info, both cannon and softcannon, as a means to grow STO for years.
My fight has been against the feds taking the carrier being given them and wanting more, nay expecting more, just becuase they feel it better suits them.
I am not against the feds getting a carrier, just their assumption they deserve more becuase they are whom they are.
We KDF fans where not given such lattitudes in our desires and where as often told not to expect such becuase we are not the majority, so why should the feds get the extra mile?
Oh we were and are dealing with it, then you showed up to use justifications to grind our noses in it. Right good sports conduct that is.
The only reason why I got involved again on this subject that has already been covered, becuase a fed came to gloat and spout off why they are "entitled".
Backing it up with bias and reasons that rub our noses in it, all while telling us (me) that I know not what I talk about, have never played a carrier porperly, and do not even keep track of the game as a whole.
Kahless wept I've been here since closed beta and played klingon since I capped my one and only fed at RA1 and never looked back. Fought throw the PvP days when thats all we KDF had to do and yet I do not know of what I speak?
Arrogance and entitlement all rolled up in one neat little package is how I see feds such as these.
As you have said, its a done deal- the feds are getting a carrier.
I'm fine with that, they just seem to be the ones that can't accept it becuase its not the carrier they wanted but someone elses idea of the vessel.
Unless I'm wrong (and I can often be so) we KDF never asked for the carriers we have and yet we have settled and learned to enjoy them.
I find it funny the feds can not do the same with thiers, even before it has appeared.
I think you're over analyzing this too much - If a freakin KDF Carrier is the sole savior of the Faction, then how mighty my Empire has fallen, how we Klinks have fallen indeed.
I could care less if the Feds get the same type of Carrier the KDF has - want the salvation for the Empire? - The Devs need to get off their arses and start producing genuine content for the KDF Faction.
This whole "originality" argument is BS that reeks to the high heavens, what personally motivates me to play the KDF is Death and Glory - not a lame @ss carrier - such argument is for the weak minded (with all due respect) - More KDF content equates to more players coming on board.
"Build it and they shall come" - Plain and simple - The problem is, the Devs have given up on us.
Losing the so called "Originality" will hardly cause a dent on the KDF population, truth is nobody cares about the thing. If anything, a rival Carrier may have the opposite effect and cause players to have Carrier vs Carrier PvP battles at the most. yet, this is being blown way out of proportion, what will really kill the KDF is the Dev's lack of enthusiasm and their monetary argument that the KDF are not worthy of completion.
Basically D'Stahl has driven a stake through the heart of the Empire in order to please those that run the books. :mad:
The only reason why I got involved again on this subject that has already been covered, becuase a fed came to gloat and spout off why they are "entitled".
Backing it up with bias and reasons that rub our noses in it, all while telling us (me) that I know not what I talk about, have never played a carrier porperly, and do not even keep track of the game as a whole.
Kahless wept I've been here since closed beta and played klingon since I capped my one and only fed at RA1 and never looked back. Fought throw the PvP days when thats all we KDF had to do and yet I do not know of what I speak?
Arrogance and entitlement all rolled up in one neat little package is how I see feds such as these.
As you have said, its a done deal- the feds are getting a carrier.
I'm fine with that, they just seem to be the ones that can't accept it becuase its not the carrier they wanted but someone elses idea of the vessel.
Unless I'm wrong (and I can often be so) we KDF never asked for the carriers we have and yet we have settled and learned to enjoy them.
I find it funny the feds can not do the same with thiers, even before it has appeared.
You both have the right of it. But if we are to lose and accept with grace should they not do the same in their victory? It is only a matter of time till Fed carriers trickle down into all the ranks. Lord knows that now that they have their own counterpart to the Vo'quv that will need a counter point to the Kar'fi. Then they will need new missions to run those new carriers through. What has my snout busted up is the big picture.
Let the Feds have their spoils. I'll do everything I can in PvP to assure them it is no I-win button.
You both have the right of it. But if we are to lose and accept with grace should they not do the same in their victory?
The Kicked Targ always growls sharply.
I felt kicked.
If they will let the matter drop and accept that they got thier desires, a carrier inbound, as I already said I'm fine with it in the manner being propossed by the Devs.
I think you're over analyzing this too much - If a freakin KDF Carrier is the sole savior of the Faction, then how mighty my Empire has fallen, how we Klinks have fallen indeed.
I could care less if the Feds get the same type of Carrier the KDF has - want the salvation for the Empire? - The Devs need to get off their arses and start producing genuine content for the KDF Faction.
This whole "originality" argument is BS that reeks to the high heavens, what personally motivates me to play the KDF is Death and Glory - not a lame @ss carrier - such argument is for the weak minded (with all due respect) - More KDF content equates to more players coming on board.
"Build it and they shall come" - Plain and simple - The problem is, the Devs have given up on us.
Losing the so called "Originality" will hardly cause a dent on the KDF population, truth is nobody cares about the thing. If anything, a rival Carrier may have the opposite effect and cause players to have Carrier vs Carrier PvP battles at the most. yet, this is being blown way out of proportion, what will really kill the KDF is the Dev's lack of enthusiasm and their monetary argument that the KDF are not worthy of completion.
Basically D'Stahl has driven a stake through the heart of the Empire in order to please those that run the books. :mad:
Also ... expanding off my above comment ... I tend to think that most KDF folks would ease up a TON on the Carrier issue if ... Cryptic did some noticeable KDF work to appease KDF issues.
So like, ok, they give up some uniqueness on the ship side. But in return there's some action on the KDF side for KDF issues.
For a lot of KDF folks it's not really JUST the carrier issue. It's that a carrier is getting made on the fed side, and then there's DStahl's latest comments about how the KDF will continue to be prioritized behind everything else.
It's just salt in the wound you know?
Hear, hear. This is pretty much where I come from, and you've summarized it well. Thank you.
Also ... expanding off my above comment ... I tend to think that most KDF folks would ease up a TON on the Carrier issue if ... Cryptic did some noticeable KDF work to appease KDF issues.
So like, ok, they give up some uniqueness on the ship side. But in return there's some action on the KDF side for KDF issues.
For a lot of KDF folks it's not really JUST the carrier issue. It's that a carrier is getting made on the fed side, and then there's DStahl's latest comments about how the KDF will continue to be prioritized behind everything else.
It's just salt in the wound you know?
Indeed. The carrier issue is microcosmic of the underlying KDF problem.
Comments
Eh ... look at it this way ...
1- The carrier is happening.
1a- though it's probably going to be a "flight deck" carrier, which is just a nice way of saying it'll be the Fed's Kar'Fi. But probably turn better since everything turns better than that steampunk Yamamoto.
2- A lot of people will use Scorpions with whatever gets made. (If they can, which means Cryptic allows them to get equipped to it, which I think is highly likely).
3- And a lot of people will also use Peregrines with it (again, as long as Cryptic doesn't restrict their use).
4- And deployable turrets.
5- And heck, if DPS isn't a concern and people just want to be all hipster about it, toss in a tactical layout with a TON of mines ...
And viola. Mission accomplished in terms of Fed Spam Boat ... I mean Fed response to the KDF carrier.
It's all going to work out in the end.
Roach mentioned turrets and those are a type of pet. As for control Sick and heel, really? That's pretty much all you get.
Oh we were and are dealing with it, then you showed up to use justifications to grind our noses in it. Right good sports conduct that is.
The turrets don't stack with carrier caps either. Meaning a carrier could just drop one with his pets. Also, being that turrets are on a cooldown, have no AI settings, and come in stacks, they have nowhere near the flexibility or level of danger a carrier pet squadron poses.
Why are we even discussing this? You have a carrier on the way. Deal with it, I have.
I think you're over analyzing this too much - If a freakin KDF Carrier is the sole savior of the Faction, then how mighty my Empire has fallen, how we Klinks have fallen indeed.
I could care less if the Feds get the same type of Carrier the KDF has - want the salvation for the Empire? - The Devs need to get off their arses and start producing genuine content for the KDF Faction.
This whole "originality" argument is BS that reeks to the high heavens, what personally motivates me to play the KDF is Death and Glory - not a lame @ss carrier - such argument is for the weak minded (with all due respect) - More KDF content equates to more players coming on board.
"Build it and they shall come" - Plain and simple - The problem is, the Devs have given up on us.
Losing the so called "Originality" will hardly cause a dent on the KDF population, truth is nobody cares about the thing. If anything, a rival Carrier may have the opposite effect and cause players to have Carrier vs Carrier PvP battles at the most. yet, this is being blown way out of proportion, what will really kill the KDF is the Dev's lack of enthusiasm and their monetary argument that the KDF are not worthy of completion.
Basically D'Stahl has driven a stake through the heart of the Empire in order to please those that run the books. :mad:
The only reason why I got involved again on this subject that has already been covered, becuase a fed came to gloat and spout off why they are "entitled".
Backing it up with bias and reasons that rub our noses in it, all while telling us (me) that I know not what I talk about, have never played a carrier porperly, and do not even keep track of the game as a whole.
Kahless wept I've been here since closed beta and played klingon since I capped my one and only fed at RA1 and never looked back. Fought throw the PvP days when thats all we KDF had to do and yet I do not know of what I speak?
Arrogance and entitlement all rolled up in one neat little package is how I see feds such as these.
As you have said, its a done deal- the feds are getting a carrier.
I'm fine with that, they just seem to be the ones that can't accept it becuase its not the carrier they wanted but someone elses idea of the vessel.
Unless I'm wrong (and I can often be so) we KDF never asked for the carriers we have and yet we have settled and learned to enjoy them.
I find it funny the feds can not do the same with thiers, even before it has appeared.
You both have the right of it. But if we are to lose and accept with grace should they not do the same in their victory? It is only a matter of time till Fed carriers trickle down into all the ranks. Lord knows that now that they have their own counterpart to the Vo'quv that will need a counter point to the Kar'fi. Then they will need new missions to run those new carriers through. What has my snout busted up is the big picture.
Let the Feds have their spoils. I'll do everything I can in PvP to assure them it is no I-win button.
If they will let the matter drop and accept that they got thier desires, a carrier inbound, as I already said I'm fine with it in the manner being propossed by the Devs.
Great post.
Ever read any of the Honor Harrington books?
"Nimitz class" would be a ba-a-a-ad name for a Caitan carrier.
Hear, hear. This is pretty much where I come from, and you've summarized it well. Thank you.
Indeed. The carrier issue is microcosmic of the underlying KDF problem.
Be nice to wear one of them on the decks of a Vo'Quv.
Remember to open a new thread when a thread has not had any posts in the last 30 days
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=