Since the one I asked can't answer the simple question, I'll open it up for any to answer.
Can you define MMO in a way so that you can say TOR is not a MMO while STO is?
There's only a handful who try to say TOR is not while STO is but they go quiet and won't answer the simple question.
The truth of the matter is, our personal definitions of MMO mean nothing. Just like our personal definition of what tastes "good" mean nothing. The fact is, the industry defines what is an MMO and what isnt, and the fact that the industry classifies both STO and TOR as MMOs means that they are. Whether you or I agree with that is irrelevant to the fact.
Since the one I asked can't answer the simple question, I'll open it up for any to answer.
Can you define MMO in a way so that you can say TOR is not a MMO while STO is?
There's only a handful who try to say TOR is not while STO is but they go quiet and won't answer the simple question.
Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) is a genre of role-playing video games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world.
Given that definition, how can STO and TOR not be considered MMOs?
The truth of the matter is, our personal definitions of MMO mean nothing. Just like our personal definition of what tastes "good" mean nothing. The fact is, the industry defines what is an MMO and what isnt, and the fact that the industry classifies both STO and TOR as MMOs means that they are. Whether you or I agree with that is irrelevant to the fact.
You missed it. There have been people who make the claim but do not back it up. When asked to back up the statement, all we get back is crickets. Either they stand behind their claims or they can't. And if they can't stand behind them then they need to not say it.
There is no way anyone can claim TOR is not a MMO but STO is. And I said only a handful do it so I know it's not even close to a majority who try to pull off that lie.
You missed it. There have been people who make the claim but do not back it up. When asked to back up the statement, all we get back is crickets. Either they stand behind their claims or they can't. And if they can't stand behind them then they need to not say it.
There is no way anyone can claim TOR is not a MMO but STO is. And I said only a handful do it so I know it's not even close to a majority who try to pull off that lie.
Who cares if they back it up? The industry says they are wrong, so they are wrong. Nothing they say is going to change that.
Given that definition, how can STO and TOR not be considered MMOs?
Sprint and Nagus answer. Yet I don't think either of you tried to claim one was while the other was not. So I guess it's preaching to the choir so to speak.
I know the majority of people consider both of them MMOs and do not avoid the question like those who claim TOR is not while STO is.
Who cares if they back it up? The industry says they are wrong, so they are wrong. Nothing they say matters as long as that is the case.
At least I know how to serve them some Shut Up Soup. Ask them to define it so it works for them and they shut their mouths. Any time they say it, I'll give them a serving too.
Since the one I asked can't answer the simple question, I'll open it up for any to answer.
Can you define MMO in a way so that you can say TOR is not a MMO while STO is?
There's only a handful who try to say TOR is not while STO is but they go quiet and won't answer the simple question.
Allow me to respond.
I have never once made a single comparison between TOR and STO. I've never once made a claim that STO is an MMO and TOR is not. As I have not made this comparison, your question is irrelevant.
An MMO designed by a company that specializes in 1 player games that plays like a 1 player game with a lot of other people in your world playing their own 1 player game should not be surprising to anyone.
I have never once made a single comparison between TOR and STO. I've never once made a claim that STO is an MMO and TOR is not. As I have not made this comparison, your question is irrelevant.
This is all I've said:
So, since we're asking irrelevant questions, How much is the Blue Milk on Alderaan?
So STO is not a MMO and only posing as one? You are already quoted as saying TOR is not.
Star Wars The Old Republic, I really like the immersion of the voice acting and dialogue options that can change the mission objectives. I have only played the bounty Hunter, and really enjoying being a complex character. That just does not press Dark Side options 100% of the times. Though I wish there was more variety with the companions. Being a Powertech (Tank), Mako is primarily used most of the time. There is no other healer companion, just her. I have used Torian, as a dps companion. Which can be more challenging, using medpacs, stims, and the healing and shield cooldowns.
Only classes republic side, I would ever roll would be Smuggler and Tropper. I prefer the Sith Empire over the Republic. Only good Jedi is a dead one I BBQ'd earlier with my flamethrower.
Blizzard make a Star Craft mmo, I really hope not. Seriously, they already copied a lot of the Warhammer IP. Warhammer 40 0000 Dark Millenium, would be much better than a Star Craft mmo.
Padashah Emperor Shaddam IV - "Have you ever looked into the eyes of a religious fanatic? To them suicide and martrydom are the same thing."
Which reminds of how pointless it is to even talk to a Blizz fanboy/girl. Also how some people play WOW to their death.
Seeing as I also said the single player mentality has infected this game, I think you have your answer, if you're willing to see it.
That puts the blame on the players and not how Cryptic designed the game. Saying they "infected this game" makes it the players are at fault. Whereas saying TOR is a single player game posing as a MMO is putting the blame on the developers.
Those aren't equal statements. And seeing the way of dodging the question, I do have my answer. You just can't type that both games are or are not MMOs from the very start in your eyes. I may trash STO harder than TOR here because I do my trashing of TOR on their forums where their devs actually care and bother to visit said forums. Things said here about what's there is basically the same as a tree falling in the woods and nobody around to hear it.
But in all honesty, as Nagus and Sprint also said, both are MMOs and so that "posing as" is false.
Star Wars The Old Republic, I really like the immersion of the voice acting and dialogue options that can change the mission objectives. I have only played the bounty Hunter, and really enjoying being a complex character. That just does not press Dark Side options 100% of the times. Though I wish there was more variety with the companions. Being a Powertech (Tank), Mako is primarily used most of the time. There is no other healer companion, just her. I have used Torian, as a dps companion. Which can be more challenging, using medpacs, stims, and the healing and shield cooldowns.
Only classes republic side, I would ever roll would be Smuggler and Tropper. I prefer the Sith Empire over the Republic. Only good Jedi is a dead one I BBQ'd earlier with my flamethrower.
Blizzard make a Star Craft mmo, I really hope not. Seriously, they already copied a lot of the Warhammer IP. Warhammer 40 0000 Dark Millenium, would be much better than a Star Craft mmo.
Padashah Emperor Shaddam IV - "Have you ever looked into the eyes of a religious fanatic? To them suicide and martrydom are the same thing."
Which reminds of how pointless it is to even talk to a Blizz fanboy/girl. Also how some people play WOW to their death.
I hope the first convo on Kaas you picked the middle one. BH reply to that guy about Imperials made me LOL in beta plus earned points with Mako.
I may trash STO harder than TOR here because I do my trashing of TOR on their forums where their devs actually care and bother to visit said forums.
Damn I hate it that you can't post pics on that forum... the only thing bioware does if you "trash" there game is giving you a ban.
And even constructive posts just get locked and deleted in a few minutes... people got problems with the cancellation of there subscription, people give the direct link to the cancel page... and get a warning... made my day when that happend.
Damn I hate it that you can't post pics on that forum... the only thing bioware does if you "trash" there game is giving you a ban.
And even constructive posts just get locked and deleted in a few minutes... people got problems with the cancellation of there subscription, people give the direct link to the cancel page... and get a warning... made my day when that happend.
Lol. You think STO is great on the forums? Have you not seen how the Mods and Devs here back last summer were shutting down posts left, right and centre just to stop people complaining. Banning people that were their biggest detractors.
Remember a certain Falcon that was silence when the evidence of our poor second faction was highlighted?
The "you cannot do I quit posts" from day 1 because people were quitting in disgust?
Another one who just wants to hate on TOR for the sake of it and everything is rosy in STO but TOR is poor?
I may trash STO harder than TOR here because I do my trashing of TOR on their forums where their devs actually care and bother to visit said forums. Things said here about what's there is basically the same as a tree falling in the woods and nobody around to hear it.
Hahaha.. *wipes tears of laughter from eyes* yeah, except if you read *their* boards, there are *tons* of posts saying that their Devs don't care about player opinions, are defensive, and are doing their own thing regardless of what the playerbase wants, the *exact same thing* people say about Cryptic.
Interesting. i wonder if EA will be satisfied with 800K subs (200K short of what EAfinancial analysts claimed would be needed to have the game meet minimum expectations?)
of course if could indeed pull a WoW like rebound and we could see subs increase too.
If the upper guessed metric (2.2 million units with the expecttation of 75% - 90% retention - although I think 90% is a pipe dream for ANY MMO - that's 1.65 million to 1.98 million) TOR should be a winn for EA; but again, it'll be interesting to see.
Still - even at the upper bound stated in the article - that's 20% as successful as World of Warcraft - so, would that still make SWToR (and every other MMO released before or since WoW a virtual failure?
If it does hover around the 800K mark though, it will be interesting to see if EA considers that successful enough to continue throwing a big chunk of captial at it for content expansion.
Lastly (again assuming the Dev budget number are true SWToR had:
10 times the financial budget of STO. (200 million vs 20 million)
26.6 times the development staff (800 vs 30 - and the 30 is taken from the recent interview with Captain Gekko on a recent Podcast UGC. And it would be probablybe about 200 times the amount of voice actors 1000 vs what? 5 or 6? )
edited to add:
4 times the development time - (6 years for SWToR (they started development in 2006) vs 18 months for STO.)
(Just wanted to give a more full omparison; BUT, in the end, the only thing that matters is if you like the game and you feel it's worth what you've paid into it - be it SWToR or STO.)
Interesting thing though is: BOTH MMOs STO and SWToR have the SAME Meta Critic score when it comes to what players are posting:
Both TOR and STO are mmos. I don't even know why this was even brought up for debate
However, TOR is and should have been a single player KOTOR game. Instead we got global chat and standard, overused dungeons and they slapped the mmo tag on it. Why? Because they want people to pay 15$ a month for it.
That is my biggest problem with TOR. And for that alone, I am not going to pay monthly for it, just to run the same dungeons you find in any Korean grind-fest. No thanks.
In my opinion, once the main story-arc is done, the game is finished. And I got my 60$ worth. But no more payments.
Comments
The same is true of ad hominem attacks:
Someone must restore balance to the force
This is another example of ad hominem.
Can you define MMO in a way so that you can say TOR is not a MMO while STO is?
There's only a handful who try to say TOR is not while STO is but they go quiet and won't answer the simple question.
The truth of the matter is, our personal definitions of MMO mean nothing. Just like our personal definition of what tastes "good" mean nothing. The fact is, the industry defines what is an MMO and what isnt, and the fact that the industry classifies both STO and TOR as MMOs means that they are. Whether you or I agree with that is irrelevant to the fact.
Given that definition, how can STO and TOR not be considered MMOs?
You missed it. There have been people who make the claim but do not back it up. When asked to back up the statement, all we get back is crickets. Either they stand behind their claims or they can't. And if they can't stand behind them then they need to not say it.
There is no way anyone can claim TOR is not a MMO but STO is. And I said only a handful do it so I know it's not even close to a majority who try to pull off that lie.
Who cares if they back it up? The industry says they are wrong, so they are wrong. Nothing they say is going to change that.
Sprint and Nagus answer. Yet I don't think either of you tried to claim one was while the other was not. So I guess it's preaching to the choir so to speak.
I know the majority of people consider both of them MMOs and do not avoid the question like those who claim TOR is not while STO is.
At least I know how to serve them some Shut Up Soup. Ask them to define it so it works for them and they shut their mouths. Any time they say it, I'll give them a serving too.
It's nice to learn one's weakness.
Allow me to respond.
I have never once made a single comparison between TOR and STO. I've never once made a claim that STO is an MMO and TOR is not. As I have not made this comparison, your question is irrelevant.
This is all I've said:
So, since we're asking irrelevant questions, How much is the Blue Milk on Alderaan?
And the gaming industry says TOR isnt "posing" as an MMO, it is one. So nothing you say is ever going to change that.
So STO is not a MMO and only posing as one? You are already quoted as saying TOR is not.
Only classes republic side, I would ever roll would be Smuggler and Tropper. I prefer the Sith Empire over the Republic. Only good Jedi is a dead one I BBQ'd earlier with my flamethrower.
Blizzard make a Star Craft mmo, I really hope not. Seriously, they already copied a lot of the Warhammer IP. Warhammer 40 0000 Dark Millenium, would be much better than a Star Craft mmo.
Padashah Emperor Shaddam IV - "Have you ever looked into the eyes of a religious fanatic? To them suicide and martrydom are the same thing."
Which reminds of how pointless it is to even talk to a Blizz fanboy/girl. Also how some people play WOW to their death.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/20/the-force-is-with-swtor-ea-stock-bounces-back-budget-revealed/
That puts the blame on the players and not how Cryptic designed the game. Saying they "infected this game" makes it the players are at fault. Whereas saying TOR is a single player game posing as a MMO is putting the blame on the developers.
Those aren't equal statements. And seeing the way of dodging the question, I do have my answer. You just can't type that both games are or are not MMOs from the very start in your eyes. I may trash STO harder than TOR here because I do my trashing of TOR on their forums where their devs actually care and bother to visit said forums. Things said here about what's there is basically the same as a tree falling in the woods and nobody around to hear it.
But in all honesty, as Nagus and Sprint also said, both are MMOs and so that "posing as" is false.
I hope the first convo on Kaas you picked the middle one. BH reply to that guy about Imperials made me LOL in beta plus earned points with Mako.
Funny it wasn't Matt Daniel that reported this today after his latest article. Hmmm.
Damn I hate it that you can't post pics on that forum... the only thing bioware does if you "trash" there game is giving you a ban.
And even constructive posts just get locked and deleted in a few minutes... people got problems with the cancellation of there subscription, people give the direct link to the cancel page... and get a warning... made my day when that happend.
Lol. You think STO is great on the forums? Have you not seen how the Mods and Devs here back last summer were shutting down posts left, right and centre just to stop people complaining. Banning people that were their biggest detractors.
Remember a certain Falcon that was silence when the evidence of our poor second faction was highlighted?
The "you cannot do I quit posts" from day 1 because people were quitting in disgust?
Another one who just wants to hate on TOR for the sake of it and everything is rosy in STO but TOR is poor?
Just received some info from Cryptic.
Wont say what, only that I cannot believe how over sensitive they are. :mad:
I love all the posts here and I do hate it when people debate, especially when it gets heated
I retract every bad thing I said about STO and assign it to TOR please.
I hope Cryptic now sends me a lovely email telling me how happy they are with me
Off to go watch Silent Running now, as I feel the need for some hippy vibe, as STO forums always gives me that happy glow
Hahaha.. *wipes tears of laughter from eyes* yeah, except if you read *their* boards, there are *tons* of posts saying that their Devs don't care about player opinions, are defensive, and are doing their own thing regardless of what the playerbase wants, the *exact same thing* people say about Cryptic.
Interesting. i wonder if EA will be satisfied with 800K subs (200K short of what EAfinancial analysts claimed would be needed to have the game meet minimum expectations?)
of course if could indeed pull a WoW like rebound and we could see subs increase too.
If the upper guessed metric (2.2 million units with the expecttation of 75% - 90% retention - although I think 90% is a pipe dream for ANY MMO - that's 1.65 million to 1.98 million) TOR should be a winn for EA; but again, it'll be interesting to see.
Still - even at the upper bound stated in the article - that's 20% as successful as World of Warcraft - so, would that still make SWToR (and every other MMO released before or since WoW a virtual failure?
If it does hover around the 800K mark though, it will be interesting to see if EA considers that successful enough to continue throwing a big chunk of captial at it for content expansion.
Lastly (again assuming the Dev budget number are true SWToR had:
10 times the financial budget of STO. (200 million vs 20 million)
26.6 times the development staff (800 vs 30 - and the 30 is taken from the recent interview with Captain Gekko on a recent Podcast UGC. And it would be probablybe about 200 times the amount of voice actors 1000 vs what? 5 or 6?
edited to add:
4 times the development time - (6 years for SWToR (they started development in 2006) vs 18 months for STO.)
(Just wanted to give a more full omparison; BUT, in the end, the only thing that matters is if you like the game and you feel it's worth what you've paid into it - be it SWToR or STO.)
Interesting thing though is: BOTH MMOs STO and SWToR have the SAME Meta Critic score when it comes to what players are posting:
SWToR User MetaCritic score 6.0 with 1385 players giving reviews (link)
STO User MetaCritic score 6.0 with 476 players giving reviews (link)
I really do hope EA gives SWToR a chance and doesn't start pulling back ro do an 'Atari' on SWToR.
(Seriously, as I'd LIKE to see Sci Fi based MMOs continue to be made.)
It's also a very well-crafted one despite major flaws. As a whole, I prefer it to STO.
However, TOR is and should have been a single player KOTOR game. Instead we got global chat and standard, overused dungeons and they slapped the mmo tag on it. Why? Because they want people to pay 15$ a month for it.
That is my biggest problem with TOR. And for that alone, I am not going to pay monthly for it, just to run the same dungeons you find in any Korean grind-fest. No thanks.
In my opinion, once the main story-arc is done, the game is finished. And I got my 60$ worth. But no more payments.
Which main story arc, there are 8 of them. 16 if you go with 2 of each class, one light and 1 dark