Which main story arc, there are 8 of them. 16 if you go with 2 of each class, one light and 1 dark
I was referring to all of them as the "main story arc". My point was that once those are complete, I got my 60$ worth. Afterwards, paying 1/4 of that price monthly to play the same dungeons, but with dialogues, is not worth 15$/month.
The problem is that, unlike a true single player game, if I ever want to start the story from the beginning after 5 months, I must pay 15$ just to get access to the game again.
After the DLC mess that was ME2 (remove companion customization from ME1 just to have us pay for one extra costume for each one instead), EA decided that the best way to mask a single player game with DLC, is to just drop it as an mmo with a monthly fee. That way, people will pay 15$ a month for it even if they want to or not, if they ever want to get access to it.
Both TOR and STO are mmos. I don't even know why this was even brought up for debate
However, TOR is and should have been a single player KOTOR game. Instead we got global chat and standard, overused dungeons and they slapped the mmo tag on it. Why? Because they want people to pay 15$ a month for it.
That is my biggest problem with TOR. And for that alone, I am not going to pay monthly for it, just to run the same dungeons you find in any Korean grind-fest. No thanks.
In my opinion, once the main story-arc is done, the game is finished. And I got my 60$ worth. But no more payments.
Sorry, i'm confused. Are you talking about STO? A Korean grind fest? Same old STFs, no story and a ship to fly in and do...Nothing.
This is why STO became F2P, as people thought like you did, that they were not paying £10 a month for a single player game and left.
TOR clearly is not a single player game and has plenty of things for people to do "together" or if they want to single but some content you "have" to have a group.
Of all the rubbish I have heard people spout about TOR, calling it a Korean grind fest is probably the best especially coming from someone posting in STO.
Both TOR and STO are MMo's regardless of what you or me or anyone else says including Jack calling this an OMG.
Of all the rubbish I have heard people spout about TOR, calling it a Korean grind fest is probably the best especially coming from someone posting in STO.
.
No, I am talking about the so-called end-game dungeons (which is the only thing left to do after the story is complete), a mechanic found in any Korean mmo, meaning that it is nothing special, nothing to justify paying 15$ a month after finishing the main story.
No, I am talking about the so-called end-game dungeons (which is the only thing left to do after the story is complete), a mechanic found in any Korean mmo, meaning that it is nothing special, nothing to justify paying 15$ a month after finishing the main story.
After 1 month of playing (no pressing of space bar), PVPing and crafting, I am level 37 and enjoying it immensely.
So lets say by month 2 I am 50 and PVP and doing the operations and still crafting, it's worth the sub.
If I was to times that by 8 for alts that's about another years worth of play, not including any updates they do and adding of "new" things.
So what your basically saying is that "you" found nothing else to do after reaching 50 however their is a lot of things you can do after reach 50.
I am interested to know what you do in STO once you made VA? Looking at your sig, you have alts do you not? So what your saying is that you don't believe alts stretch a game out in TOR but they do in STO?
I bet your more into the RP style of STO, the sandboxy make your own story? Bet you love the foundry? If so then I can see why you don't like TOR, however if that is the case then TOR was never for you, but it does mean your opinions are more than biased as nothing a Themepark MMO can do to appease you.
If I was to times that by 8 for alts that's about another years worth of play, not including any updates they do and adding of "new" things.
So what your basically saying is that "you" found nothing else to do after reaching 50 however their is a lot of things you can do after reach 50.
There are many single player games which offer a lot of content, enough to keep you "awake" for a long while. The story in KOTOR, for instance is very long as well, but that game only requires you to pay once for it. You can pick it up again after 5 months and play from the beginning.
My point was that in TOR you are getting a similar campaign (influenced by the dialogue decisions) for the same price, however you are required to pay 15$ a month. That's 1/4 of the game's retail price. And we aren't getting 1/4 content-wise a month to justify that.
Ever since this whole DLC bull#$%& came out, devs are trying to find new ways to justify making the customer pay extra money for extra stuff.
Instead of making KOTOR3 with poor customization (a-la ME2) and forcing you to buy DLCs to get 3 useless costumes, they made an mmo, which will squeeze more money in the long run.
So things went something like this: Bioware makes KOTOR3, but EA wants to make more money. So they do their best to make a compelling storyline and characters.
Then they added pvp and dungeons, but didn't put the same amount of effort into those like they did with the story. All just to market it as an mmo.
They just checked PvP and dungeons off the "Feature List" and said: hey, we've got an mmo!
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't really care about PvP or redoing the same old tired dungeons (I can find in games which are 10 years old) over and over again, because that's not why I bought the game in the first place.
I am interested to know what you do in STO once you made VA? Looking at your sig, you have alts do you not? So what your saying is that you don't believe alts stretch a game out in TOR but they do in STO?
They're not alts, they're my Boffs
And STO is f2p right now, so we should judge it by what it currently is, not what it was. Therefore, for a f2p game, it has lots of content.
Also, the new players will judge STO by its current state, since this is their first playthrough.
And since we're talking about STO, here we have a semi-third person shooter, while in TOR you have to press 1 1 1 1 1 (and no aiming) to fire blaster shots. Sure, in STO you can chose to play the same way, but I honestly prefer pressing B and aiming my phaser shots.
Here we have better space combat, which is actually unique (no other mmo has a similar mechanic), a game made in 2008. TOR is released in 2012 and gives us on-rail shooters.
Here, companions aren't cloned for each player. You can customize them individually, and let's be honest: customization in STO is far FAR more complex than in TOR.
Here I can customize my ship's interior and exterior, here I have the freedom to move around the Alpha and Beta Quadrants as I wish.
There are a lot of features that STO has over other games.
TOR, has the exact same mechanics you can find in any generic mmorpg, with the single exception being the story-driven leveling path, very well done, unique for an mmo, but insufficient.
There are many single player games which offer a lot of content, enough to keep you "awake" for a long while. The story in KOTOR, for instance is very long as well, but that game only requires you to pay once for it. You can pick it up again after 5 months and play from the beginning.
My point was that in TOR you are getting a similar campaign (influenced by the dialogue decisions) for the same price, however you are required to pay 15$ a month. That's 1/4 of the game's retail price. And we aren't getting 1/4 content-wise a month to justify that.
Ever since this whole DLC bull#$%& came out, devs are trying to find new ways to justify making the customer pay extra money for extra stuff.
Instead of making KOTOR3 with poor customization (a-la ME2) and forcing you to buy DLCs to get 3 useless costumes, they made an mmo, which will squeeze more money in the long run.
So things went something like this: Bioware makes KOTOR3, but EA wants to make more money. So they do their best to make a compelling storyline and characters.
Then they added pvp and dungeons, but didn't put the same amount of effort into those like they did with the story. All just to market it as an mmo.
They just checked PvP and dungeons off the "Feature List" and said: hey, we've got an mmo!
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't really care about PvP or redoing the same old tired dungeons (I can find in games which are 10 years old) over and over again, because that's not why I bought the game in the first place.
They're not alts, they're my Boffs
And STO is f2p right now, so we should judge it by what it currently is, not what it was. Therefore, for a f2p game, it has lots of content.
Also, the new players will judge STO by its current state, since this is their first playthrough.
And since we're talking about STO, here we have a semi-third person shooter, while in TOR you have to press 1 1 1 1 1 (and no aiming) to fire blaster shots. Sure, in STO you can chose to play the same way, but I honestly prefer pressing B and aiming my phaser shots.
Here we have better space combat, which is actually unique (no other mmo has a similar mechanic), a game made in 2008. TOR is released in 2012 and gives us on-rail shooters.
Here, companions aren't cloned for each player. You can customize them individually, and let's be honest: customization in STO is far FAR more complex than in TOR.
Here I can customize my ship's interior and exterior, here I have the freedom to move around the Alpha and Beta Quadrants as I wish.
There are a lot of features that STO has over other games.
TOR, has the exact same mechanics you can find in any generic mmorpg, with the single exception being the story-driven leveling path, very well done, unique for an mmo, but insufficient.
Okay, I stand corrected on your Sig.
If you have already bought STO and subbed and played it, then you cannot judge it against TOR simply because one is F2P and the other isn't. STO was nearly 2 years a fully fledged AAA sub price game and went F2P because it was either not making enough money on a sub model or it was worried about TOR coming out. I submit it was both.
New players have the same options as me now, pay a sub price for "insert your fav MMo here" and also get to play STO for free, so I am sure many will not be bothered about comparing STO to TOR. Only people comparing are lifers or those that were playing before it went F2P and are extremely precious about their game and the IP.
However F2P or not, the game is still the same after a few weeks of play and will not keep me entertained for any great length however, it doesn't need to now as I don't have any financials tied up in it and I can come and go when I want.
You didn't play. The 5 day headstart was 12/15-12/20 which they changed to a 7 day headstart at the most in the 11th hour making it 12/13-12/20. NOBODY had to put in the sub info until 12/22 at the latest.
So that "NOT three days into the 5 days head start" is false.
Also do you need the dates for STO? Same thing. You had to put in game code/sub info a few days after release too even if you were in the headstart. Granted Cryptic gave a week grace period while Bioware gave 2 days. But the reason Cryptic gave so much was because non-North American players had shipping issues where they didn't get their game until a week after release.
I'm sorry, what?!? how do you know I didn't play? I was playing it every day it was up fromt he beta's through to retail, evben got a trooper upto lvl 25 between headstart and the subscription debacle and then got a refund from EA for the stupidity of the headstart system where no one got their first free month!
I bought my copy of TOR online, from Origin itself, had the code as soon as it released from them (the day before start) so my account had the game code active before the grace period aswell, full account, my trooper running around with his yellow-black lasor beams
my POINT was, you EITHER ask for subscription when someone makes the account OR after the free month like other games, Bioware didn;t this time and it annoyed a LOT of people on the official forums, myself included...
No, I am talking about the so-called end-game dungeons (which is the only thing left to do after the story is complete), a mechanic found in any Korean mmo, meaning that it is nothing special, nothing to justify paying 15$ a month after finishing the main story.
hell, thats not just the case for Asian MMO's either, thats also the case for WoW and MOST western MMO's that have come along since then too
the only difference with WoW being successful is it made people think that that was what it was supposed to happen, but now people have started realising that all you do every day logging in is run the same heroic dungeons and raids until the next content comes out, they drop thier sub until the next patch/expansion, only this time, they have dropped over 3 million subscribers after the last content patch (WoW topped out at 13million concurrent subscribers in early 2011 and by December 2011 two months after the last content patch and a year after release of cataclysm, that figure had dropped to 10million concurrent subscribers)
Hahaha.. *wipes tears of laughter from eyes* yeah, except if you read *their* boards, there are *tons* of posts saying that their Devs don't care about player opinions, are defensive, and are doing their own thing regardless of what the playerbase wants, the *exact same thing* people say about Cryptic.
You have to be sly about it. Just like you have to be here with this game.
I'm sorry, what?!? how do you know I didn't play? I was playing it every day it was up fromt he beta's through to retail, evben got a trooper upto lvl 25 between headstart and the subscription debacle and then got a refund from EA for the stupidity of the headstart system where no one got their first free month!
I bought my copy of TOR online, from Origin itself, had the code as soon as it released from them (the day before start) so my account had the game code active before the grace period aswell, full account, my trooper running around with his yellow-black lasor beams
my POINT was, you EITHER ask for subscription when someone makes the account OR after the free month like other games, Bioware didn;t this time and it annoyed a LOT of people on the official forums, myself included...
hell, thats not just the case for Asian MMO's either, thats also the case for WoW and MOST western MMO's that have come along since then too
the only difference with WoW being successful is it made people think that that was what it was supposed to happen, but now people have started realising that all you do every day logging in is run the same heroic dungeons and raids until the next content comes out, they drop thier sub until the next patch/expansion, only this time, they have dropped over 3 million subscribers after the last content patch (WoW topped out at 13million concurrent subscribers in early 2011 and by December 2011 two months after the last content patch and a year after release of cataclysm, that figure had dropped to 10million concurrent subscribers)
I too got my game from Origin. And they did NOT ask me to put in the credit card info before 12/22. I chose to so I can get access to my DDE items that were mostly low-level only usage anyhow except the T1 speeder. I could have waited until the 22nd at the latest like everyone else.
How their system was set up, it was step 3 or step 4 was game code while following step was sub info. You said people had to put the sub info in 3 days into the five day headstart meaning 12/18 BW said everyone enter card info. No, they said it had to be done by 12/22 which was NOT "3 days into the 5 days headstart".
After finishing a warzone in "Civil War" you loose all pilot skill abilities....apparently I lost my I and II skill....so yeah...almost 100,000 cr alone for re-learning that...hopefully I get a fast ticket form their CS like most of the time.
Interesting. i wonder if EA will be satisfied with 800K subs (200K short of what EAfinancial analysts claimed would be needed to have the game meet minimum expectations?)
of course if could indeed pull a WoW like rebound and we could see subs increase too.
If the upper guessed metric (2.2 million units with the expecttation of 75% - 90% retention - although I think 90% is a pipe dream for ANY MMO - that's 1.65 million to 1.98 million) TOR should be a winn for EA; but again, it'll be interesting to see.
Still - even at the upper bound stated in the article - that's 20% as successful as World of Warcraft - so, would that still make SWToR (and every other MMO released before or since WoW a virtual failure?
If it does hover around the 800K mark though, it will be interesting to see if EA considers that successful enough to continue throwing a big chunk of captial at it for content expansion.
i would be very, very careful with the subs... the daily users that log on drop and drop each day since the second week.
Interesting. i wonder if EA will be satisfied with 800K subs (200K short of what EAfinancial analysts claimed would be needed to have the game meet minimum expectations?)
of course if could indeed pull a WoW like rebound and we could see subs increase too.
If the upper guessed metric (2.2 million units with the expecttation of 75% - 90% retention - although I think 90% is a pipe dream for ANY MMO - that's 1.65 million to 1.98 million) TOR should be a winn for EA; but again, it'll be interesting to see.
Still - even at the upper bound stated in the article - that's 20% as successful as World of Warcraft - so, would that still make SWToR (and every other MMO released before or since WoW a virtual failure?
If it does hover around the 800K mark though, it will be interesting to see if EA considers that successful enough to continue throwing a big chunk of captial at it for content expansion.
Lastly (again assuming the Dev budget number are true SWToR had:
10 times the financial budget of STO. (200 million vs 20 million)
26.6 times the development staff (800 vs 30 - and the 30 is taken from the recent interview with Captain Gekko on a recent Podcast UGC. And it would be probablybe about 200 times the amount of voice actors 1000 vs what? 5 or 6? )
edited to add:
4 times the development time - (6 years for SWToR (they started development in 2006) vs 18 months for STO.)
(Just wanted to give a more full omparison; BUT, in the end, the only thing that matters is if you like the game and you feel it's worth what you've paid into it - be it SWToR or STO.)
Interesting thing though is: BOTH MMOs STO and SWToR have the SAME Meta Critic score when it comes to what players are posting:
I really do hope EA gives SWToR a chance and doesn't start pulling back ro do an 'Atari' on SWToR.
(Seriously, as I'd LIKE to see Sci Fi based MMOs continue to be made.)
Seeing as how EA reportedly invested $200-$300 million into SWTOR and the game was in production for nearly 4 years i doubt greatly they will be please with less than a million subs. To put it into perspective Cryptic had 18 months from the day it acquired the Star Trek license to launch the game. It was rough when it came out, I started 2 days after launch, but the game has been overhauled and content added as time has gone one. I can promise you $200-$300 million wasn't spent on the game.
I too got my game from Origin. And they did NOT ask me to put in the credit card info before 12/22. I chose to so I can get access to my DDE items that were mostly low-level only usage anyhow except the T1 speeder. I could have waited until the 22nd at the latest like everyone else.
How their system was set up, it was step 3 or step 4 was game code while following step was sub info. You said people had to put the sub info in 3 days into the five day headstart meaning 12/18 BW said everyone enter card info. No, they said it had to be done by 12/22 which was NOT "3 days into the 5 days headstart".
I know it was a 4 step process... the point is, at no point in teh game code input did they FORCE you to add a subscription... and because of that, I should have been able to carry on for the full free month before being (in typical MMO subscription fashion) FORCED to put in a sub OR stop playing...
I got 4 days, then cut off and my FREE 30 days KEPT COUNTING DOWN!!! (<--- that is my complaint btw!)
EDIT: Oh forgot to add... I actually complain and got a FULL refund from EA though, so HAH! and whats even MORE funny about it, THEY STILL have the game code attached to my ToR account, so I could, if i ever felt stupid enough to try again, go back and sub to it WIN!
I got 4 days, then cut off and my FREE 30 days KEPT COUNTING DOWN!!! (<--- that is my complaint btw!)!
Pointless complaint, that. That is the norm. You pay 30 days from the date you paid. You decide to stop paying, you still get your leftover days. It doesn't stop until they stop getting money. Otherwise people might cancel their accounts over the midweek if they can only play on the weekends, turning one month into ten or fifteen months. Or from their point of view, 225 dollars into 15.
Pointless complaint, that. That is the norm. You pay 30 days from the date you paid. You decide to stop paying, you still get your leftover days. It doesn't stop until they stop getting money. Otherwise people might cancel their accounts over the midweek if they can only play on the weekends, turning one month into ten or fifteen months. Or from their point of view, 225 dollars into 15.
No MMO I can think of does things differently.
oh no, you misunderstand dear sir, I put my game code in, I got my first free month, but because I then didn't put my sub details in, my account locked up, but my FREE 30 days still kept counting down
EVERY MMO does it differently as I said above...
EITHER:
a, you put your game activation code in and on the next page (you can;t bypass it) it asks for CC details or similar for your subscription, but doesn;t charge you until after your free 30 days, even STO did when I finally added a full game code on christmas eve to my old beta account I never upgraded
or...
b, you put your game code in and get your 30 free days and at the end of that time it asks for a sub then
NONE let you play and cut you off midgame, I and MANY others on the official SWToR forums had 27 days ticking away and could not log into play and each day it kept ticking down meaning our free 30 days were being lost because we refused to put a sub in as we were never asked for one during the game activation
I know it was a 4 step process... the point is, at no point in teh game code input did they FORCE you to add a subscription... and because of that, I should have been able to carry on for the full free month before being (in typical MMO subscription fashion) FORCED to put in a sub OR stop playing...
I got 4 days, then cut off and my FREE 30 days KEPT COUNTING DOWN!!! (<--- that is my complaint btw!)
EDIT: Oh forgot to add... I actually complain and got a FULL refund from EA though, so HAH! and whats even MORE funny about it, THEY STILL have the game code attached to my ToR account, so I could, if i ever felt stupid enough to try again, go back and sub to it WIN!
This back and forth with us started because I commented on your statement Bioware made you enter your credit card information 3 days into the 5 day headstart. That simply was not true since 3 days into the original 5 day headstart was 12/18 and nobody had to enter sub info on 12/18. That step was after the box retail code which wasn't required until 12/22. I put mine in earlier to get the DDE items but I was not force to do it. And many I know waited until 12/22.
so people who def wanted to unsuscribe after the free month found some problems... the unsuscribe button was missing. when people posted a work aorund how to unsuscribe even tho the button was missing, the thread got deleted by mods.... bioware/ea shenanigans.......bioware and mmos? bad combination. stick to single player mass effect dragon age.
This back and forth with us started because I commented on your statement Bioware made you enter your credit card information 3 days into the 5 day headstart. That simply was not true since 3 days into the original 5 day headstart was 12/18 and nobody had to enter sub info on 12/18. That step was after the box retail code which wasn't required until 12/22. I put mine in earlier to get the DDE items but I was not force to do it. And many I know waited until 12/22.
My comment was not just about my headstart being stopped, but that people who paid extra for it got screwed aswell
however it was for some and they, like me, got cut off, in fact EVERYONE did without putting a subscription in after they had started playing on the FREE gametime that came with the day
you HAVE to agree that they EITHER should have asked for the sub details with adding the gameactivation, or AFTER the free 30 days... OR, do you think it was a viable business model to cut people off while playing the game?
besides, if you make something a seperate box on the account page rather than the NEXT unskippable page of activation, people are NOT going to use it straight away
My comment was not just about my headstart being stopped, but that people who paid extra for it got screwed aswell
however it was for some and they, like me, got cut off, in fact EVERYONE did without putting a subscription in after they had started playing on the FREE gametime that came with the day
you HAVE to agree that they EITHER should have asked for the sub details with adding the gameactivation, or AFTER the free 30 days... OR, do you think it was a viable business model to cut people off while playing the game?
besides, if you make something a seperate box on the account page rather than the NEXT unskippable page of activation, people are NOT going to use it straight away
That isn't any different than games that come with the 30 days but require card information on day 1. STO did that. CO did that. CoX did that. WoW did that. And the list goes on. You want to gripe because Bioware made people put in the information two days after release instead of release day? Seriously?
It gave time card people time to go out and get time cards if they didn't have access to credit cards like many outside the US can't do.
That isn't any different than games that come with the 30 days but require card information on day 1. STO did that. CO did that. CoX did that. WoW did that. And the list goes on. You want to gripe because Bioware made people put in the information two days after release instead of release day? Seriously?
It gave time card people time to go out and get time cards if they didn't have access to credit cards like many outside the US can't do.
because it did not force you to enter the sub like all those others do, it was a completely separate and misable option on the page, not a second page that was automatically taken you to to fill in before accepting your game activation!
would you please stop arguing a case you have agreed with me on!
NONE have stopped people midgame before, NONE! like you said, they either ask for it on day one or after the free 30 days, not on day 3 of 30!
because it did not force you to enter the sub like all those others do, it was a completely separate and misable option on the page, not a second page that was automatically taken you to to fill in before accepting your game activation!
would you please stop arguing a case you have agreed with me on!
NONE have stopped people midgame before, NONE! like you said, they either ask for it on day one or after the free 30 days, not on day 3 of 30!
I haven't agreed with you. Sorry.
I see nothing wrong with giving people 2 days to enter their credit card information. Especially since so many give you 0 days. And people who came after release get the industry standard 0 days now.
I see nothing wrong with giving people 2 days to enter their credit card information. Especially since so many give you 0 days. And people who came after release get the industry standard 0 days now.
ok, this is my last reply to you as I have repeated myself far more than I even did on the SWToR forums themselves...
they did NOT give two days... the point was, thier website was set up SO badly, firstly they did not AUTOMATICALLY ask for your details, like EVERY other MMO company does on day one (unless they let you play the free time of course), but it was also a missable window on the account page AND there was NO warning people would be cut off!
THE FIRST 30 DAYS OF SUBSCRIPTION ARE INCLUDED IN THE PURCHASE PRICE OF THE PRODUCT.
standard MMO fare I agree, however, I say this ONE point again.... NO MMO SO FAR HAS STOPPED YOUR GAME THREE DAYS INTO PLAYING TO FORCE SUBSCRIPTION! THEY EITHER ASK FOR YOUR SUB WHEN YOU ACIVATE YOUR GAME OR WHEN YOUR THIRTY DAYS HAD ENDED!
now please learn to read, I have used plain english on all my posts and three days into the FREE 30 day period is neither on day one, or after the FREE 30 days now is it!?!
I see nothing wrong with them making people put in the card information by 12/22. Again, it gave time card people time to go out and get the cards even if they purchased the DDE. Cards weren't in stores until 12/20. Just because they did not force it on 12/20 but 12/22 was actually helpful to some people.
So you're QQ'ing because they pushed back CC information 2 days as their grace period? I can understand saying 2 days grace period was a bit cheap of them but you're getting mad over nothing.
People who buy the game after release have to put in their information immediately. That was given to allow non-North American gamers to get time cards. Everything isn't about you. I know that's a shock but it's not.
ok, this is my last reply to you as I have repeated myself far more than I even did on the SWToR forums themselves...
they did NOT give two days... the point was, thier website was set up SO badly, firstly they did not AUTOMATICALLY ask for your details, like EVERY other MMO company does on day one (unless they let you play the free time of course), but it was also a missable window on the account page AND there was NO warning people would be cut off!
standard MMO fare I agree, however, I say this ONE point again.... NO MMO SO FAR HAS STOPPED YOUR GAME THREE DAYS INTO PLAYING TO FORCE SUBSCRIPTION! THEY EITHER ASK FOR YOUR SUB WHEN YOU ACIVATE YOUR GAME OR WHEN YOUR THIRTY DAYS HAD ENDED!
now please learn to read, I have used plain english on all my posts and three days into the FREE 30 day period is neither on day one, or after the FREE 30 days now is it!?!
Your hating for hates sake m8.
Every MMo I have played has said as soon as I install it that they want my C/C. I can enter the details and then cancel straight away if I must, but without the CC details I cannot play.
All Bioware did wrong was not to force me to put my CC in on day one of my headstart. They did tend to make it more complicated then necessary but not to the extent your trying to ram down our throats and when I say complicated I really mean not complicated just faffy.
I put my CC details in as soon as I could and didn't experience any issues that you and others that decided to wait did and by wait I mean did not enter your details as soon as you installed.
Every MMo I have played has said as soon as I install it that they want my C/C. I can enter the details and then cancel straight away if I must, but without the CC details I cannot play.
All Bioware did wrong was not to force me to put my CC in on day one of my headstart. They did tend to make it more complicated then necessary but not to the extent your trying to ram down our throats and when I say complicated I really mean not complicated just faffy.
I put my CC details in as soon as I could and didn't experience any issues that you and others that decided to wait did and by wait I mean did not enter your details as soon as you installed.
Get a grip:rolleyes:
oh no matey, you misunderstand, if it HAD forced me to enter my CC details like others, I would have and thought nothing of it as I play every mmo (god it gets so boring playing games every day sometimes), my gripe is that SWTOR didn't and just cut people off
not hating on it, just making a point that many others agreed with on the official forums which have since been sanitized (more than once for various things, and most recently the lack of an unsubscribe option)
I'm actually quite happy that I managed to get my money back because of the TRIBBLE way they did it as it broke UK sales laws and they had to refund me my money
but even then, it is still the most expensive MMO launch to date, the RRP of the game for PC being £59.99, which I would expect on console, but is a first for a PC title unless it was a collectors edition
Comments
I was referring to all of them as the "main story arc". My point was that once those are complete, I got my 60$ worth. Afterwards, paying 1/4 of that price monthly to play the same dungeons, but with dialogues, is not worth 15$/month.
The problem is that, unlike a true single player game, if I ever want to start the story from the beginning after 5 months, I must pay 15$ just to get access to the game again.
After the DLC mess that was ME2 (remove companion customization from ME1 just to have us pay for one extra costume for each one instead), EA decided that the best way to mask a single player game with DLC, is to just drop it as an mmo with a monthly fee. That way, people will pay 15$ a month for it even if they want to or not, if they ever want to get access to it.
Sorry, i'm confused. Are you talking about STO? A Korean grind fest? Same old STFs, no story and a ship to fly in and do...Nothing.
This is why STO became F2P, as people thought like you did, that they were not paying £10 a month for a single player game and left.
TOR clearly is not a single player game and has plenty of things for people to do "together" or if they want to single but some content you "have" to have a group.
Of all the rubbish I have heard people spout about TOR, calling it a Korean grind fest is probably the best especially coming from someone posting in STO.
Both TOR and STO are MMo's regardless of what you or me or anyone else says including Jack calling this an OMG.
No, I am talking about the so-called end-game dungeons (which is the only thing left to do after the story is complete), a mechanic found in any Korean mmo, meaning that it is nothing special, nothing to justify paying 15$ a month after finishing the main story.
After 1 month of playing (no pressing of space bar), PVPing and crafting, I am level 37 and enjoying it immensely.
So lets say by month 2 I am 50 and PVP and doing the operations and still crafting, it's worth the sub.
If I was to times that by 8 for alts that's about another years worth of play, not including any updates they do and adding of "new" things.
So what your basically saying is that "you" found nothing else to do after reaching 50 however their is a lot of things you can do after reach 50.
I am interested to know what you do in STO once you made VA? Looking at your sig, you have alts do you not? So what your saying is that you don't believe alts stretch a game out in TOR but they do in STO?
I bet your more into the RP style of STO, the sandboxy make your own story? Bet you love the foundry? If so then I can see why you don't like TOR, however if that is the case then TOR was never for you, but it does mean your opinions are more than biased as nothing a Themepark MMO can do to appease you.
Korean Grindfest. This still makes me laugh.
Join the SWG crowd who also dislike TOR.
There are many single player games which offer a lot of content, enough to keep you "awake" for a long while. The story in KOTOR, for instance is very long as well, but that game only requires you to pay once for it. You can pick it up again after 5 months and play from the beginning.
My point was that in TOR you are getting a similar campaign (influenced by the dialogue decisions) for the same price, however you are required to pay 15$ a month. That's 1/4 of the game's retail price. And we aren't getting 1/4 content-wise a month to justify that.
Ever since this whole DLC bull#$%& came out, devs are trying to find new ways to justify making the customer pay extra money for extra stuff.
Instead of making KOTOR3 with poor customization (a-la ME2) and forcing you to buy DLCs to get 3 useless costumes, they made an mmo, which will squeeze more money in the long run.
So things went something like this: Bioware makes KOTOR3, but EA wants to make more money. So they do their best to make a compelling storyline and characters.
Then they added pvp and dungeons, but didn't put the same amount of effort into those like they did with the story. All just to market it as an mmo.
They just checked PvP and dungeons off the "Feature List" and said: hey, we've got an mmo!
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't really care about PvP or redoing the same old tired dungeons (I can find in games which are 10 years old) over and over again, because that's not why I bought the game in the first place.
They're not alts, they're my Boffs
And STO is f2p right now, so we should judge it by what it currently is, not what it was. Therefore, for a f2p game, it has lots of content.
Also, the new players will judge STO by its current state, since this is their first playthrough.
And since we're talking about STO, here we have a semi-third person shooter, while in TOR you have to press 1 1 1 1 1 (and no aiming) to fire blaster shots. Sure, in STO you can chose to play the same way, but I honestly prefer pressing B and aiming my phaser shots.
Here we have better space combat, which is actually unique (no other mmo has a similar mechanic), a game made in 2008. TOR is released in 2012 and gives us on-rail shooters.
Here, companions aren't cloned for each player. You can customize them individually, and let's be honest: customization in STO is far FAR more complex than in TOR.
Here I can customize my ship's interior and exterior, here I have the freedom to move around the Alpha and Beta Quadrants as I wish.
There are a lot of features that STO has over other games.
TOR, has the exact same mechanics you can find in any generic mmorpg, with the single exception being the story-driven leveling path, very well done, unique for an mmo, but insufficient.
Okay, I stand corrected on your Sig.
If you have already bought STO and subbed and played it, then you cannot judge it against TOR simply because one is F2P and the other isn't. STO was nearly 2 years a fully fledged AAA sub price game and went F2P because it was either not making enough money on a sub model or it was worried about TOR coming out. I submit it was both.
New players have the same options as me now, pay a sub price for "insert your fav MMo here" and also get to play STO for free, so I am sure many will not be bothered about comparing STO to TOR. Only people comparing are lifers or those that were playing before it went F2P and are extremely precious about their game and the IP.
However F2P or not, the game is still the same after a few weeks of play and will not keep me entertained for any great length however, it doesn't need to now as I don't have any financials tied up in it and I can come and go when I want.
I bought my copy of TOR online, from Origin itself, had the code as soon as it released from them (the day before start) so my account had the game code active before the grace period aswell, full account, my trooper running around with his yellow-black lasor beams
my POINT was, you EITHER ask for subscription when someone makes the account OR after the free month like other games, Bioware didn;t this time and it annoyed a LOT of people on the official forums, myself included...
hell, thats not just the case for Asian MMO's either, thats also the case for WoW and MOST western MMO's that have come along since then too
the only difference with WoW being successful is it made people think that that was what it was supposed to happen, but now people have started realising that all you do every day logging in is run the same heroic dungeons and raids until the next content comes out, they drop thier sub until the next patch/expansion, only this time, they have dropped over 3 million subscribers after the last content patch (WoW topped out at 13million concurrent subscribers in early 2011 and by December 2011 two months after the last content patch and a year after release of cataclysm, that figure had dropped to 10million concurrent subscribers)
You have to be sly about it. Just like you have to be here with this game.
And Falcon wasn't the only one.
I too got my game from Origin. And they did NOT ask me to put in the credit card info before 12/22. I chose to so I can get access to my DDE items that were mostly low-level only usage anyhow except the T1 speeder. I could have waited until the 22nd at the latest like everyone else.
How their system was set up, it was step 3 or step 4 was game code while following step was sub info. You said people had to put the sub info in 3 days into the five day headstart meaning 12/18 BW said everyone enter card info. No, they said it had to be done by 12/22 which was NOT "3 days into the 5 days headstart".
lol. They have been known for that.
After finishing a warzone in "Civil War" you loose all pilot skill abilities....apparently I lost my I and II skill....so yeah...almost 100,000 cr alone for re-learning that...hopefully I get a fast ticket form their CS like most of the time.
i would be very, very careful with the subs... the daily users that log on drop and drop each day since the second week.
http://www.torstatus.net/
http://www.swtorarena.com/statistics/
They have already lost around 50% of there daily user base... and if this is an indication for there subs you know what that means.
Seeing as how EA reportedly invested $200-$300 million into SWTOR and the game was in production for nearly 4 years i doubt greatly they will be please with less than a million subs. To put it into perspective Cryptic had 18 months from the day it acquired the Star Trek license to launch the game. It was rough when it came out, I started 2 days after launch, but the game has been overhauled and content added as time has gone one. I can promise you $200-$300 million wasn't spent on the game.
http://www.starwarsmmolevelingguide.com/swtor-a-300-million-failure/
http://pc.ign.com/articles/121/1216969p1.html
What, you mean it could go F2P like STO has because its not making any money;)
Yep, I believe all those charts.:rolleyes:
I know it was a 4 step process... the point is, at no point in teh game code input did they FORCE you to add a subscription... and because of that, I should have been able to carry on for the full free month before being (in typical MMO subscription fashion) FORCED to put in a sub OR stop playing...
I got 4 days, then cut off and my FREE 30 days KEPT COUNTING DOWN!!! (<--- that is my complaint btw!)
EDIT: Oh forgot to add... I actually complain and got a FULL refund from EA though, so HAH! and whats even MORE funny about it, THEY STILL have the game code attached to my ToR account, so I could, if i ever felt stupid enough to try again, go back and sub to it
It doesn't matter what you believe, the charts are just compiled informations that are provided by bioware on there sever status site.
Pointless complaint, that. That is the norm. You pay 30 days from the date you paid. You decide to stop paying, you still get your leftover days. It doesn't stop until they stop getting money. Otherwise people might cancel their accounts over the midweek if they can only play on the weekends, turning one month into ten or fifteen months. Or from their point of view, 225 dollars into 15.
No MMO I can think of does things differently.
oh no, you misunderstand dear sir, I put my game code in, I got my first free month, but because I then didn't put my sub details in, my account locked up, but my FREE 30 days still kept counting down
EVERY MMO does it differently as I said above...
EITHER:
a, you put your game activation code in and on the next page (you can;t bypass it) it asks for CC details or similar for your subscription, but doesn;t charge you until after your free 30 days, even STO did when I finally added a full game code on christmas eve to my old beta account I never upgraded
or...
b, you put your game code in and get your 30 free days and at the end of that time it asks for a sub then
NONE let you play and cut you off midgame, I and MANY others on the official SWToR forums had 27 days ticking away and could not log into play and each day it kept ticking down meaning our free 30 days were being lost because we refused to put a sub in as we were never asked for one during the game activation
This back and forth with us started because I commented on your statement Bioware made you enter your credit card information 3 days into the 5 day headstart. That simply was not true since 3 days into the original 5 day headstart was 12/18 and nobody had to enter sub info on 12/18. That step was after the box retail code which wasn't required until 12/22. I put mine in earlier to get the DDE items but I was not force to do it. And many I know waited until 12/22.
My comment was not just about my headstart being stopped, but that people who paid extra for it got screwed aswell
however it was for some and they, like me, got cut off, in fact EVERYONE did without putting a subscription in after they had started playing on the FREE gametime that came with the day
you HAVE to agree that they EITHER should have asked for the sub details with adding the gameactivation, or AFTER the free 30 days... OR, do you think it was a viable business model to cut people off while playing the game?
besides, if you make something a seperate box on the account page rather than the NEXT unskippable page of activation, people are NOT going to use it straight away
That isn't any different than games that come with the 30 days but require card information on day 1. STO did that. CO did that. CoX did that. WoW did that. And the list goes on. You want to gripe because Bioware made people put in the information two days after release instead of release day? Seriously?
It gave time card people time to go out and get time cards if they didn't have access to credit cards like many outside the US can't do.
because it did not force you to enter the sub like all those others do, it was a completely separate and misable option on the page, not a second page that was automatically taken you to to fill in before accepting your game activation!
would you please stop arguing a case you have agreed with me on!
NONE have stopped people midgame before, NONE! like you said, they either ask for it on day one or after the free 30 days, not on day 3 of 30!
I haven't agreed with you. Sorry.
I see nothing wrong with giving people 2 days to enter their credit card information. Especially since so many give you 0 days. And people who came after release get the industry standard 0 days now.
ok, this is my last reply to you as I have repeated myself far more than I even did on the SWToR forums themselves...
they did NOT give two days... the point was, thier website was set up SO badly, firstly they did not AUTOMATICALLY ask for your details, like EVERY other MMO company does on day one (unless they let you play the free time of course), but it was also a missable window on the account page AND there was NO warning people would be cut off!
standard MMO fare I agree, however, I say this ONE point again.... NO MMO SO FAR HAS STOPPED YOUR GAME THREE DAYS INTO PLAYING TO FORCE SUBSCRIPTION! THEY EITHER ASK FOR YOUR SUB WHEN YOU ACIVATE YOUR GAME OR WHEN YOUR THIRTY DAYS HAD ENDED!
now please learn to read, I have used plain english on all my posts and three days into the FREE 30 day period is neither on day one, or after the FREE 30 days now is it!?!
I see nothing wrong with them making people put in the card information by 12/22. Again, it gave time card people time to go out and get the cards even if they purchased the DDE. Cards weren't in stores until 12/20. Just because they did not force it on 12/20 but 12/22 was actually helpful to some people.
So you're QQ'ing because they pushed back CC information 2 days as their grace period? I can understand saying 2 days grace period was a bit cheap of them but you're getting mad over nothing.
People who buy the game after release have to put in their information immediately. That was given to allow non-North American gamers to get time cards. Everything isn't about you. I know that's a shock but it's not.
Your hating for hates sake m8.
Every MMo I have played has said as soon as I install it that they want my C/C. I can enter the details and then cancel straight away if I must, but without the CC details I cannot play.
All Bioware did wrong was not to force me to put my CC in on day one of my headstart. They did tend to make it more complicated then necessary but not to the extent your trying to ram down our throats and when I say complicated I really mean not complicated just faffy.
I put my CC details in as soon as I could and didn't experience any issues that you and others that decided to wait did and by wait I mean did not enter your details as soon as you installed.
Get a grip:rolleyes:
oh no matey, you misunderstand, if it HAD forced me to enter my CC details like others, I would have and thought nothing of it as I play every mmo (god it gets so boring playing games every day sometimes), my gripe is that SWTOR didn't and just cut people off
not hating on it, just making a point that many others agreed with on the official forums which have since been sanitized (more than once for various things, and most recently the lack of an unsubscribe option)
I'm actually quite happy that I managed to get my money back because of the TRIBBLE way they did it as it broke UK sales laws and they had to refund me my money
but even then, it is still the most expensive MMO launch to date, the RRP of the game for PC being £59.99, which I would expect on console, but is a first for a PC title unless it was a collectors edition