Looking forward to knocking out the others soon as well, maybe even beating some of the times that others have posted.
As to the Raptor, excellent vessel.
It does seem to benefit from a more "stand offish" approach to flying, unlike the BoP which has the turnrate to be in close and hug an opponent.
lol- I forgot about that ability. I've been so focused on forward momentum and high EngPow for the DefBonus.
I wonder if a "CrazyIvan" keybind is possible? Of course it should be called a "Krazy Klink" manevuer, btjm.
Yup that's what I call it Crazy Klink....lol.....Think I have been watching Too much Hunt for Red October eh?...lol.
We'll see you in-game perhaps today...that is if we have some good time finding PVP and FA's that aren't the frakkin big dig or break the planet...lol.
Looking forward to knocking out the others soon as well, maybe even beating some of the times that others have posted.
As to the Raptor, excellent vessel.
It does seem to benefit from a more "stand offish" approach to flying, unlike the BoP which has the turnrate to be in close and hug an opponent.
I haven't done any STFs on my Klink toon, but I really want the Borg Def and maybe the Borg BO from KA. Let me know when you are up for doing these, I'd love to help out (TAC/Raptor, FYI).
I haven't done any STFs on my Klink toon, but I really want the Borg Def and maybe the Borg BO from KA. Let me know when you are up for doing these, I'd love to help out (TAC/Raptor, FYI).
Awesome! Hoping to start up again soon. I will deffinately let you know when I contact BRJ or TLR about the next one.
I fly a Raptor mainly for the same reason the OP does. I do not think the Cowardly hit and run tactics of the BoP are befitting a KDF officer. I would see them as fighting to the death instead rather than cloaking in the middle of a fire fight. To be honest; that is a Romulan tactic.
I also fly an Escort on the Fed side and BoP was like a Rice Paper version of my Balsa Wood Escort... That is NOT what I wanted to fly. I wanted something with a bit more meat but still similar DPS and the Raptor delivers. It is a very nice ship.
Now with that said I still think the Vorcha is super sexy, Carriers are sweet, and some of the BoP ships do have a strong aesthetic appeal to them. I really love the first and original BoP design but I cannot help but feel it really should have been Romulan when you look at those painted bird wings.
I fly a Raptor mainly for the same reason the OP does. I do not think the Cowardly hit and run tactics of the BoP are befitting a KDF officer. I would see them as fighting to the death instead rather than cloaking in the middle of a fire fight. To be honest; that is a Romulan tactic.
I also fly an Escort on the Fed side and BoP was like a Rice Paper version of my Balsa Wood Escort... That is NOT what I wanted to fly. I wanted something with a bit more meat but still similar DPS and the Raptor delivers. It is a very nice ship.
Now with that said I still think the Vorcha is super sexy, Carriers are sweet, and some of the BoP ships do have a strong aesthetic appeal to them. I really love the first and original BoP design but I cannot help but feel it really should have been Romulan when you look at those painted bird wings.
I just like the way the raptor handles....Yes, it is interesting that people would think of Romulans when they look at that ship...lol.
It all depends from a matter of carreer choice I guess... As tactical career I can understand considering you are geared more towards damage.
As engineer I have given myself 2 choices The universal BoP or the BC, right now I use the BoP and unless 3 or more start pounding me I can hold my own.
4 Hull Heals:
- Auxilary power to structural integrity II
- Engineering Team I and III
- Hazard Emitters II
5 Shield Heals
- Science Team I
- Emergency power to Shields I and III
- Rotate Shield Frequency III
- Reverse Shield Polarity I
And do not forget Miracle Worker III which gives both Hull and Shield healing when in an emergency.
This kind of healing power I could not have in a Raptor.
Combining my healing skills with 4x DBB and a fast turnrate allows for very fun dog fighting against 1 or 2 feds (which is were I get my fun in PvP)..
With very little need to use BattleCloak I must add unless 3 or more feds suddenly team up When that happens I am dead quite fast without assistance from my fellow KDF, but I doubt even the 9000 hull can make a Raptor take a long beating from multiple vessels.
So far I have flow BoPs, BCs and the VoQuv Carrier. All 3 are fun although have their strong and weak points. BoPs are cannon fodder, BCs turn too slow to use anything else but Beam Arrays and Carriers turn even slower then BCs and I hate the pets landing every time my enemy is dead (as if in the instance I am at the moment I am not going to need them about 10 seconds later ).
Raptors however look better then BCs and due to that I am tempted to try, but I dont have the needed BOffs to outfit it properly so I might try it on a future alt Already got two BoP characters .
I fly a Raptor mainly for the same reason the OP does. I do not think the Cowardly hit and run tactics of the BoP are befitting a KDF officer. I would see them as fighting to the death instead rather than cloaking in the middle of a fire fight. To be honest; that is a Romulan tactic.
It always seems strange to me when people consider effective tactics for an honourable race to be "cowardly" because it doesn't fit THEIR standards.
For one, Klingons aren't Paladins. They don't sit their in their piety taking their hits and blasting about righteousness. They don't have the armour to withstand such attacks even if for some reason nobility demanded it. They are conquerors. Honour, for Klingons, isn't quantified in the same way you apparently percieve it to be. Honour to a Klingon means the ability to win in battle against a formidable opponent, subjugate it, and be acknowledged as the superior warrior and victor. Hit and run attacks with a smaller, lighter ship against a larger target is most certainly going to net them an honourable, glorious victory.
Secondly, everyone also assumes the same (though opposite viewpoint) of Romulans. Are all Romulans cowards? Are they all sneaky, ready to sell out their own at a moment's notice? Actually, no. Romulans are paranoid and xenophobic, true, but that makes them want to protect their Empire and families even moreso. There's a nobility (to them) to doing everything in their power to maintain a fruitful, prosperous Romulan civilization and the Federation, the KDF, and pretty much everyone else can and might be a threat to that. Romulan Warbirds are among the most powerful vessels in the quadrant, and accordingly the Romulans don't like to shy away from a fight (although they do for political reasons... they have a lot to consider).
In closing, fighting to the death in a smaller, lesser-equipped vessel with a hull that would break if you sneezed at it against a monstrous cruiser of another faction may seem noble and could be romanticised however you wish, but that doesn't change the fact that it's utterly stupid if you have another option. I fly a Raptor and I fly a BoP, and both have their differing playstyles; neither of them is without honour, and both bring glorious victory.
You wish to pass over the BoP because your style of fighting leads you more toward the also-cloaking Raptor, so be it. But beware the warrior you call a coward, even if indirectly as this! :cool:
An old Klingon friend of mine told me a story once, hmmm I think it went like this.
Long ago, a storm was heading for the city of Quin'lat. Everyone took protection within the walls except one man who remained outside. Kahless went to him and asked what he was doing. "I am not afraid," the man said. "I will not hide my face behind stone and mortar. I will stand before the wind and make it respect me." Kahless honored his choice and went back inside. The next day, the storm came, and the man was killed. Kahless replied, "The wind does not respect a fool".
To use a scout ship to strike a blow on a larger ship is one thing, but to do so blatantly in the open knowing what will happen, but determined to do it. Not smart, but it is your choice.
A BOP at least uses strategy of battle cloaking to move to a more advantagous location.
An old Klingon friend of mine told me a story once, hmmm I think it went like this.
Long ago, a storm was heading for the city of Quin'lat. Everyone took protection within the walls except one man who remained outside. Kahless went to him and asked what he was doing. "I am not afraid," the man said. "I will not hide my face behind stone and mortar. I will stand before the wind and make it respect me." Kahless honored his choice and went back inside. The next day, the storm came, and the man was killed. Kahless replied, "The wind does not respect a fool".
To use a scout ship to strike a blow on a larger ship is one thing, but to do so blatantly in the open knowing what will happen, but determined to do it. Not smart, but it is your choice.
A BOP at least uses strategy of battle cloaking to move to a more advantagous location.
The Raptor is not a foolish old man spitting in the face of the wind. The Raptor is a cloaked sword capable of lining up one perfect shot. That shot won't win the fight but it will give you the upper hand, if you're good enough, and afterwards it's the skill of the pilot and crew that carry the day. You may prefer the 'strategy' of a million tiny knife cuts from a Bird of Prey, but don't call us fools for bringing a sharper, longer blade and the confidence in our skill to forsake a battle cloak.
The Raptor is not a foolish old man spitting in the face of the wind. The Raptor is a cloaked sword capable of lining up one perfect shot. That shot won't win the fight but it will give you the upper hand, if you're good enough, and afterwards it's the skill of the pilot and crew that carry the day. You may prefer the 'strategy' of a million tiny knife cuts from a Bird of Prey, but don't call us fools for bringing a sharper, longer blade and the confidence in our skill to forsake a battle cloak.
He wasn't.
It was a response to any Raptor pilot* calling a BoP pilot a fool for bringing his/her "tiny knife cut" of a ship instead, which as a pilot of both I can tell you is hardly tiny.
*and most likely ANYONE calling a cloaked-vessel-user a "coward" for using said cloak
I have used both a Raptor and a BoP and prefer the Raptor. Both have their strong points and weaknesses. A tactical in a Raptor with the right setup can do huge damage quickly. Put that same character in to a BoP and you can set it up to tank in a fight better than the Fed's Fleet Escort. You will not out tank a Cruiser but you can outlast any Fed Escort.
As for cloaking both the BoP and Raptor will use it to attack and as most Klingon's know the cloak loses its advantage after the first attack run until you can get out of firing range of the enemy ship. Both the Raptor and the BoP use the same tactic to evade enemy fire and reengage their cloak to setup a new attack run.
The difference is that most of the time in a BoP you are finishing off the same target on the second attack run where as in the Raptor you have already destroyed the first target and are going after a second.
Put a Science character in a BoP and that becomes a different beast all together. With the BO options you have you can make a very frustrating build for PvP vs. any other ship and character combo in the game.
So I agree with what others have said in this post that preference of one ship over the other depends on character type and fighting style.
I wouldn't call the BoP tactics cowardly, but for a group of five Klingon (as in, players are klingons not just KDF) to be using remarkably Romulan tactics (Who the klingons hate) amused me in a space PVP match I did once .
As for my Gorn I plan to make with Season four? Will probably fly a raptor, haven't decided.
I fly the raptor because I am transitioning from a Cruiser Pilot, I will probably level another KDF in a BoP. THe raptor is a very fine DPS ship. Because of the console setup you can get some pretty exotic and beneficial power settings. I run pretty much even engines and shields 40 before bonuses and still have 125 in weapons after bonuses.
I wouldn't call the BoP tactics cowardly, but for a group of five Klingon (as in, players are klingons not just KDF) to be using remarkably Romulan tactics (Who the klingons hate) amused me in a space PVP match I did once .
As for my Gorn I plan to make with Season four? Will probably fly a raptor, haven't decided.
I'm curious... what would you consider "Romulan tactics?"
I'm curious... what would you consider "Romulan tactics?"
"We strike, then cloak and sit perfectly still in some corner for a long time, then strike again."
Focus being that they were cloaked and did nothing offensively for the bulk of the match's time.
Overall, I'd say Romulan tactics are heavy on cloaking and less direct combat (From the little I know of them). Where Klingons seem far more for using cloak to get in and hit hard then simply to hide and watch.
"We strike, then cloak and sit perfectly still in some corner for a long time, then strike again."
Focus being that they were cloaked and did nothing offensively for the bulk of the match's time.
Overall, I'd say Romulan tactics are heavy on cloaking and less direct combat (From the little I know of them). Where Klingons seem far more for using cloak to get in and hit hard then simply to hide and watch.
I'd have to disagree with you.
Far be it for me to dispute a perception, but what makes an attack "Romulan" (read: cowardly) is the overkill factor coupled with the "letter of the law vs. spirit of the law" mentality they use to justify their attacks. See Picard's intrusion into the Neutral Zone and Tomalak's justification for announcing his intent to destroy the Enterprise.
Strike, cloak, wait for opportunity, strike again" is actually a pretty basic ambush tactic. It's viable, doable, and everyone does it in one instance or another. Besides, "direct combat" is something I would call the strike part of that equation... they're vulnerable and firing. It doesn't get too much more direct (outside of suicide) for a Bird of Prey by design.
Ambush tactics are an effective, working strategy that can win a conflict. I agree, it sucks when the entire opposition is made up of these ambushers, since they ALL wait for that opportunity, but they're about. Raptors can and do do the same thing, albeit minus a battle-cloak. Cruisers tend to lessen than tactic, as the sheer staying power of a cruiser tends to allow both Raptors and BoPs free time outside of cloak to fire on any targets they want.
Romulans using radiation, poison, other stuff that damages/destroys their enemy without engaging I would consider cowardly (and, naturally, "Romulan"). Striking from a position of stealth and returning to said position is akin to a trapdoor spider hunting prey; it's just what they do, and isn't dishonourable any more than it is honourable.
What is honourable/dishonourable is what they do in that time, how they do it, and how they receive the outcome.
Comments
Looking forward to knocking out the others soon as well, maybe even beating some of the times that others have posted.
As to the Raptor, excellent vessel.
It does seem to benefit from a more "stand offish" approach to flying, unlike the BoP which has the turnrate to be in close and hug an opponent.
I haven't done any STFs on my Klink toon, but I really want the Borg Def and maybe the Borg BO from KA. Let me know when you are up for doing these, I'd love to help out (TAC/Raptor, FYI).
Awesome! Hoping to start up again soon. I will deffinately let you know when I contact BRJ or TLR about the next one.
Pure awesome.
I also fly an Escort on the Fed side and BoP was like a Rice Paper version of my Balsa Wood Escort... That is NOT what I wanted to fly. I wanted something with a bit more meat but still similar DPS and the Raptor delivers. It is a very nice ship.
Now with that said I still think the Vorcha is super sexy, Carriers are sweet, and some of the BoP ships do have a strong aesthetic appeal to them. I really love the first and original BoP design but I cannot help but feel it really should have been Romulan when you look at those painted bird wings.
I just like the way the raptor handles....Yes, it is interesting that people would think of Romulans when they look at that ship...lol.
1) I can survive in it far longer than in a BoP.
2) I can do massive damage in it.
3) I like the way it looks.
4) I can kill engineers in cruisers using it.
As engineer I have given myself 2 choices The universal BoP or the BC, right now I use the BoP and unless 3 or more start pounding me I can hold my own.
4 Hull Heals:
- Auxilary power to structural integrity II
- Engineering Team I and III
- Hazard Emitters II
5 Shield Heals
- Science Team I
- Emergency power to Shields I and III
- Rotate Shield Frequency III
- Reverse Shield Polarity I
And do not forget Miracle Worker III which gives both Hull and Shield healing when in an emergency.
This kind of healing power I could not have in a Raptor.
Combining my healing skills with 4x DBB and a fast turnrate allows for very fun dog fighting against 1 or 2 feds (which is were I get my fun in PvP)..
With very little need to use BattleCloak I must add unless 3 or more feds suddenly team up When that happens I am dead quite fast without assistance from my fellow KDF, but I doubt even the 9000 hull can make a Raptor take a long beating from multiple vessels.
So far I have flow BoPs, BCs and the VoQuv Carrier. All 3 are fun although have their strong and weak points. BoPs are cannon fodder, BCs turn too slow to use anything else but Beam Arrays and Carriers turn even slower then BCs and I hate the pets landing every time my enemy is dead (as if in the instance I am at the moment I am not going to need them about 10 seconds later ).
Raptors however look better then BCs and due to that I am tempted to try, but I dont have the needed BOffs to outfit it properly so I might try it on a future alt Already got two BoP characters .
It always seems strange to me when people consider effective tactics for an honourable race to be "cowardly" because it doesn't fit THEIR standards.
For one, Klingons aren't Paladins. They don't sit their in their piety taking their hits and blasting about righteousness. They don't have the armour to withstand such attacks even if for some reason nobility demanded it. They are conquerors. Honour, for Klingons, isn't quantified in the same way you apparently percieve it to be. Honour to a Klingon means the ability to win in battle against a formidable opponent, subjugate it, and be acknowledged as the superior warrior and victor. Hit and run attacks with a smaller, lighter ship against a larger target is most certainly going to net them an honourable, glorious victory.
Secondly, everyone also assumes the same (though opposite viewpoint) of Romulans. Are all Romulans cowards? Are they all sneaky, ready to sell out their own at a moment's notice? Actually, no. Romulans are paranoid and xenophobic, true, but that makes them want to protect their Empire and families even moreso. There's a nobility (to them) to doing everything in their power to maintain a fruitful, prosperous Romulan civilization and the Federation, the KDF, and pretty much everyone else can and might be a threat to that. Romulan Warbirds are among the most powerful vessels in the quadrant, and accordingly the Romulans don't like to shy away from a fight (although they do for political reasons... they have a lot to consider).
In closing, fighting to the death in a smaller, lesser-equipped vessel with a hull that would break if you sneezed at it against a monstrous cruiser of another faction may seem noble and could be romanticised however you wish, but that doesn't change the fact that it's utterly stupid if you have another option. I fly a Raptor and I fly a BoP, and both have their differing playstyles; neither of them is without honour, and both bring glorious victory.
You wish to pass over the BoP because your style of fighting leads you more toward the also-cloaking Raptor, so be it. But beware the warrior you call a coward, even if indirectly as this! :cool:
Long ago, a storm was heading for the city of Quin'lat. Everyone took protection within the walls except one man who remained outside. Kahless went to him and asked what he was doing. "I am not afraid," the man said. "I will not hide my face behind stone and mortar. I will stand before the wind and make it respect me." Kahless honored his choice and went back inside. The next day, the storm came, and the man was killed. Kahless replied, "The wind does not respect a fool".
To use a scout ship to strike a blow on a larger ship is one thing, but to do so blatantly in the open knowing what will happen, but determined to do it. Not smart, but it is your choice.
A BOP at least uses strategy of battle cloaking to move to a more advantagous location.
Number 4 is a good reason to me...lol...I like it.
The Raptor is not a foolish old man spitting in the face of the wind. The Raptor is a cloaked sword capable of lining up one perfect shot. That shot won't win the fight but it will give you the upper hand, if you're good enough, and afterwards it's the skill of the pilot and crew that carry the day. You may prefer the 'strategy' of a million tiny knife cuts from a Bird of Prey, but don't call us fools for bringing a sharper, longer blade and the confidence in our skill to forsake a battle cloak.
He wasn't.
It was a response to any Raptor pilot* calling a BoP pilot a fool for bringing his/her "tiny knife cut" of a ship instead, which as a pilot of both I can tell you is hardly tiny.
*and most likely ANYONE calling a cloaked-vessel-user a "coward" for using said cloak
As for cloaking both the BoP and Raptor will use it to attack and as most Klingon's know the cloak loses its advantage after the first attack run until you can get out of firing range of the enemy ship. Both the Raptor and the BoP use the same tactic to evade enemy fire and reengage their cloak to setup a new attack run.
The difference is that most of the time in a BoP you are finishing off the same target on the second attack run where as in the Raptor you have already destroyed the first target and are going after a second.
Put a Science character in a BoP and that becomes a different beast all together. With the BO options you have you can make a very frustrating build for PvP vs. any other ship and character combo in the game.
So I agree with what others have said in this post that preference of one ship over the other depends on character type and fighting style.
As for my Gorn I plan to make with Season four? Will probably fly a raptor, haven't decided.
I'm curious... what would you consider "Romulan tactics?"
"We strike, then cloak and sit perfectly still in some corner for a long time, then strike again."
Focus being that they were cloaked and did nothing offensively for the bulk of the match's time.
Overall, I'd say Romulan tactics are heavy on cloaking and less direct combat (From the little I know of them). Where Klingons seem far more for using cloak to get in and hit hard then simply to hide and watch.
I'd have to disagree with you.
Far be it for me to dispute a perception, but what makes an attack "Romulan" (read: cowardly) is the overkill factor coupled with the "letter of the law vs. spirit of the law" mentality they use to justify their attacks. See Picard's intrusion into the Neutral Zone and Tomalak's justification for announcing his intent to destroy the Enterprise.
Strike, cloak, wait for opportunity, strike again" is actually a pretty basic ambush tactic. It's viable, doable, and everyone does it in one instance or another. Besides, "direct combat" is something I would call the strike part of that equation... they're vulnerable and firing. It doesn't get too much more direct (outside of suicide) for a Bird of Prey by design.
Ambush tactics are an effective, working strategy that can win a conflict. I agree, it sucks when the entire opposition is made up of these ambushers, since they ALL wait for that opportunity, but they're about. Raptors can and do do the same thing, albeit minus a battle-cloak. Cruisers tend to lessen than tactic, as the sheer staying power of a cruiser tends to allow both Raptors and BoPs free time outside of cloak to fire on any targets they want.
Romulans using radiation, poison, other stuff that damages/destroys their enemy without engaging I would consider cowardly (and, naturally, "Romulan"). Striking from a position of stealth and returning to said position is akin to a trapdoor spider hunting prey; it's just what they do, and isn't dishonourable any more than it is honourable.
What is honourable/dishonourable is what they do in that time, how they do it, and how they receive the outcome.