I have flown every Klingon ship type, and every fed ship type. The raptor is an exact duplicate of a federation escort. Same number of weapons, same manuverabillity, same BO slots... Although (with the exception of the prometheus) the raptors just look WAY cooler. I am a big fan of Dual Heavy Cannons, and so raptors make an ideal cannon cart. I like BoPs... but so easily shattered. Raptors have the advantage of being a little sturdier.
I used to be all BoP, and I would use viral matrix and reverse shield polarity to cause choas and mayhem all day long. But first the nerfed RSP so no need to have 3 of them, then they redid viral matrix and all I had was my cannons, rapid refire, my tac bonuses and the battlecloak to bug out with. But then season 3 made healing and hull tanking the place to be and I found I could shot all day at a cruiser and not even ruffle their hair. So I went to Raptor. Spent almost 10 million on +26 antiproton consoles, found Beam Overload 3 and HYT3 and went out into the world. And it was fun, even if once I uncloaked I was a sitting duck unless I used engine battery or evasive manuevors. I would find it amusing that the better my team did the lower my healing would be. But there were problems, first even with +10 to accuracy as trait the BO3 missed entirely too much, and considering that unless the shields were down the HYT3 didn't do much. Now don't get me wrong sometimes I could get the BO3 to crit for 30 to 50k of damage but it only seemed to do that against not very good oppenents. and if the enemy was tanking or had their counters ready I wasn't doing much damage, and as tac commander I couldn't strip them with subnuke. And if you were fighting a good team then they could focus fire you long before their heals wore off. Which got me thinking about the BoP again, and putting together a build designed to beat good teams. I fiddled with a Gravity Well and Eject warp plasma build and with the tac buffing I could get the GW to around 30 to 40k and the eject plasma up to 25k, though it does require good timing and skill and a aux battery doesn't hurt. though the main drawback is that you spend more time lining up the eject plasma run then you do shooting. So I went back and put tac in the commander spot for Omega 3 and was able to buff Gravity Well 1 up to about 50k and with cannon rapid fire 2 pushes out some serious damage, and if the defensive buffs are up it still whittles them down quite a bit; and if the defensive buffs aren't in place they just drop dead. My damage doesn't spike quite as high as the Raptor but I think my average DPS is up and as for survivability, the same aux buffs I have can feed Polarize hull 2 and unless I subnuked (or held) nothing can stop my escape with evasive and battlecloak. And then next patch should make me even stronger.
I have flown every Klingon ship type, and every fed ship type. The raptor is an exact duplicate of a federation escort. Same number of weapons, same manuverabillity, same BO slots... Although (with the exception of the prometheus) the raptors just look WAY cooler. I am a big fan of Dual Heavy Cannons, and so raptors make an ideal cannon cart. I like BoPs... but so easily shattered. Raptors have the advantage of being a little sturdier.
The Fleet Escort and Advanced Escort have either a Engineer or Science ensign station instead of the Raptors Tac. I also tend to disagree with the "survivability" of a Raptor compared to a BoP. You might get a bit more Hull but having the option of going with either a Science or Engineer Lt. Commander BoFF can equal a lot more survivability imo than the bit of extra hull. Not too mention the unequaled turn rate and toss in a battle cloak for good measure.
The Fleet Escort and Advanced Escort have either a Engineer or Science ensign station instead of the Raptors Tac. I also tend to disagree with the "survivability" of a Raptor compared to a BoP. You might get a bit more Hull but having the option of going with either a Science or Engineer Lt. Commander BoFF can equal a lot more survivability imo than the bit of extra hull. Not too mention the unequaled turn rate and toss in a battle cloak for good measure.
Riggghhht... except who wants to fly a tiny fragile cruiser/sci ship? You don't have the extra warp core power/hull/shields to make engineer skills shine as they should, nor do you have the extra aux/sub targeting/shields that make the sci skills shine. You can spec for primarilly defense... but then what would be the point of flying a fast maneuverable combat ship? It always has, and always will be a 'hit and run' ship. Honestly, mosquito tactics only seem to work when you have a LOT of support from other ships.
Raptors may not have the capabillity of extra engie/sci slots, but it has always been and always will be a death dealing combat machine. It's Klingon tech doing what it does best... offence.
Just hit BG and got a Raptor and a BOP. I never would have considered the Raptor, but several PvPers I know recommended I give it a try. I was surprised that I liked the Raptor design better once I was done messing with it. So I started trying it out. I miss the BOP turn rate, but the extra HP of the Raptor was a nice surprise... I didn't know that gap between the two was so substantial. I use Aux to dampeners to help with turn rate and speed boost when I need it. I also like having the additional aft weapon slot, as I have been having a hard time deciding how I want to work my load-out with cannons, beams, and torpedoes and an additional slot helps. So far I have gone with survival sci BO powers as I learn to Captain my new ship and PUG PvP. I may go with something more aggressive later. But so far I'm really liking it. Of course powers and loadout are subject to change.
The raptor is a almost the same as a fed escort except our additional lt tac slot. I've enjoyed using it all the way to LG1 from start...Finally got of my TRIBBLE and got me a Qin yesterday, slotted her and brought her out for a walk in fed park Loving it all the way.:D
Raptors ... those are from Enterprise right? The Archer-T'Pol series?
Back then Klingons had no cloaks right?
So ... I mean ... as cool as a battlecloak on a Raptor might be ... isn't it a bit of a stretch?
Not really when you consider the fact that Cryptic chose to make an Excelsior class that tops the Sovereign class. You could just say that the Raptor was redesigned cause why would you be using out dated cloaking technology so far in the future?
I played a feddie and for the first year, I thought BoP were worthless ( I know of no feddie that 'fears' a BoP). So when I grew some balls to make a klingon, it never occured to me to make a BoP. Granted I flew a cruiser so maybe thats why BoP's never bothered me nor impressed me.
Now, I respect a BoP more having learned more about them... but I still love my raptor. It just looks cool, and the survivability is great, and the firepower is raw and uncut
So I had this bridge officer with Beam Overload 3 on it, and I really wanted to use it. It came down to BOP or Raptor, and I went with Raptor (I dislike relying on H&R.) I've been very, very happy with my Raptor. The damage is better than I expected by a long shot. Basically, I fly a Raptor because I'm a fan of big spike damage but I want enough defense to hold my own in a drag-out fight.
Not really when you consider the fact that Cryptic chose to make an Excelsior class that tops the Sovereign class. You could just say that the Raptor was redesigned cause why would you be using out dated cloaking technology so far in the future?
Meh, anachronistic conversation now as I think I asked that question initially before the Excelsior T5 jibba jabba came out?
I wouldn't even know where to begin approaching such a discussion in March of 2011 with the game and the ships the way they are now.
I flew a raptor with my KDF character up until just now when I got a Nausicaan overpriced ship from the C-Store because my character is Nausicaan and I wanted him to fly his home planet's ship.
So I had this bridge officer with Beam Overload 3 on it, and I really wanted to use it. It came down to BOP or Raptor, and I went with Raptor (I dislike relying on H&R.) I've been very, very happy with my Raptor. The damage is better than I expected by a long shot. Basically, I fly a Raptor because I'm a fan of big spike damage but I want enough defense to hold my own in a drag-out fight.
There is a very nice balance with the Raptor.
It has good dps, strong turn rate, and decent defense ... and is as fun as my Fed Defiant.
Just as deadly as the defiant, not nearly as maneuverable, but much more robust when it comes to surviving. I is sort of like a Fleet/Defiant Hybrid, Defiant Boff layout Fleet console layout. Unfortunately I am finding it difficult to slot BOff powers in my cannon Tric build mostly the ensign skills.
I find I stuff a second tac team in my extra ensign slot. That way I have a more consistent use of it (for me at least) as one is ready while the other is still in self cool down.
I find I stuff a second tac team in my extra ensign slot. That way I have a more consistent use of it (for me at least) as one is ready while the other is still in self cool down.
I do this on both my Raptor and Defiant.
Since I am not running any regular torps or beams most of the ensign skills are useless for now I am running 3 TT. I am running CRF 1 and 2 with a CSV for just in case I run up against a spammer or plasma or Tric ship.
Yes ... but in a BoP you have more room for a handy dandy tractor beam.
Go Klingon cowboy on them ... throw the lasso around them and then blow the <<beep>> out of them.
I also find decloaking on their aft quarter helps a bit as well.
For me ... my defiant is beams, but it seems that most go for cannons.
True the Versatility of the BoP makes up for its lower DPS than the Def-R in a 1vs1 fight since you can "out trick" the Def-R and even the playing field.
The Raptor has the Brute strength to go toe-to-toe with a Def-R and takes more timing than a BoP does to kill one. Fortunately brute strength is something a Raptor does well and its resilant enough in a fight to survive.
True the Versatility of the BoP makes up for its lower DPS than the Def-R in a 1vs1 fight since you can "out trick" the Def-R and even the playing field.
The Raptor has the Brute strength to go toe-to-toe with a Def-R and takes more timing than a BoP does to kill one. Fortunately brute strength is something a Raptor does well and its resilant enough in a fight to survive.
How true even though it handles like a school bus compared to the Porsche type handling of a Defiant and the F1 handling of the Gamma section of the MVAM AE.
The extra engineering console is key, throw in the borg console you can get a good engine and shield power setting with weapon power still at 125.
Like I posted earlier I have 125/90 weapon power so I have 10 extra to put into shields and/or engines or you can put it into aux.
How true even though it handles like a school bus compared to the Porsche type handling of a Defiant and the F1 handling of the Gamma section of the MVAM AE.
The extra engineering console is key, throw in the borg console you can get a good engine and shield power setting with weapon power still at 125.
Like I posted earlier I have 125/90 weapon power so I have 10 extra to put into shields and/or engines or you can put it into aux.
I currently have only acquired the Borg engine. I plan to do more of the STFs with BRJ and friends soon, after some RL drama finally passes and allows me the time.:D
Use the drift that is inherent (slightly) to the raptor. Sharp turn to swing the back end out a drift by an opponent sideways almost.
I find I still fly the Raptor like a BoP at times to my detriment in pvp due to old habits.
I currently have only acquired the Borg engine. I plan to do more of the STFs with BRJ and friends soon, after some RL drama finally passes and allows me the time.:D
Use the drift that is inherent (slightly) to the raptor. Sharp turn to swing the back end out a drift by an opponent sideways almost.
I find I still fly the Raptor like a BoP at times to my detriment in pvp due to old habits.
Yup, I like to fly my raptor like a BOP...However, I find that using some cruiser tactics to just mess with people keeps them guessing.
If I see someone has the advantage on the turnrate, or if they are protecting their shield facing I tore down and I cannot get around them, I order full-astern, and the resulting full reverse allows me to flip my ship around and bring the 3 DHC's to bear on the target. I know it's old but I use my tricobalt on my rear...and I only fire it on cruisers I know have a shield facing coming down, or if I know the torpedo won't hit a down facing shield, I use it to blast a ship over and into my firing arc faster...I found that the tricobalt blast shoving the ship a way in pve also works in PVP.. Perhaps it's casual player luck, or the Luck of the Irish, but I feel it's an ok setup.
BTW....hope ye get back up and running soon Roach...we need more people in PVP...so get back on...I have an annoying Ferengi for you to slap around if you do... :eek:
If I see someone has the advantage on the turnrate, or if they are protecting their shield facing I tore down and I cannot get around them, I order full-astern, and the resulting full reverse allows me to flip my ship around and bring the 3 DHC's to bear on the target.
lol- I forgot about that ability. I've been so focused on forward momentum and high EngPow for the DefBonus.
I wonder if a "CrazyIvan" keybind is possible? Of course it should be called a "Krazy Klink" manevuer, btjm.
BTW....hope ye get back up and running soon Roach...we need more people in PVP...so get back on...I have an annoying Ferengi for you to slap around if you do... :eek:
I've been on, just for very short periods of time. In fact the one of the last times I pvp'ed was with you.
Annoying Ferengi?!? Aside from Quark, aren't they all annoying. (Oy, that one will cost me)
I currently have only acquired the Borg engine. I plan to do more of the STFs with BRJ and friends soon, after some RL drama finally passes and allows me the time.:D
Use the drift that is inherent (slightly) to the raptor. Sharp turn to swing the back end out a drift by an opponent sideways almost.
I find I still fly the Raptor like a BoP at times to my detriment in pvp due to old habits.
We look forward to getting you through the rest of them, my friend.
I actually just switched to the Raptor, this past week, after having flown the BoP extensively for about 6 months, so far, I find that I miss the turn-rate a little, but not nearly so much as I'd expected.
My first ship when I came over to the "dark" side (let's face it, we have cookies, we must be the dark side ), was the mighty Negh'Var, and, while it was the most familiar (having leveled my first VA as an Eng/Cruiser), I wanted to do something 'different' with my first Klingon character, so, I bounced around some of the cruisers (LOVE the Vor'cha-R), even tried the pre-buff, post-buff, and post-nerf versions of the Carriers (ewwww, yum, and kill-me-now, respectively)... Finally, about 6 months ago, I began experimenting with the BoP, and never looked back...
Until this past week, however, when I decided that I wanted a new challenge, and picked up my first BoP... I've flown a Fed-side Defiant with one of my Engineers (and am actually leveling an Escort-traited Engineer, just to fly one), and really enjoy it, but the Raptor has the unique distinction of having the extra sturdiness (yes, one Engineering console CAN really make a huge difference) while packing every possible Tactical power into a sleek and deadly-looking frame. Not as flexible as the BoP, the Raptor has to do a little work to get the most mileage out of its abilities (compensating for the lower turn-rate against Defiants, in particular), it is a truly rewarding and powerful ship to fly, and I recommend that every Klingon Engineer out there, give the Raptor a shot, at least, and see what you can make of it.
Comments
The Fleet Escort and Advanced Escort have either a Engineer or Science ensign station instead of the Raptors Tac. I also tend to disagree with the "survivability" of a Raptor compared to a BoP. You might get a bit more Hull but having the option of going with either a Science or Engineer Lt. Commander BoFF can equal a lot more survivability imo than the bit of extra hull. Not too mention the unequaled turn rate and toss in a battle cloak for good measure.
1) Those still trying to make it work
2) Those to subborn to swap after discovering you can't make it work any better than a bop
3) Role players
That would be me. Much like those 1911 Colt enthusiasts who insist it is the best pistol despite all the evidence...
Riggghhht... except who wants to fly a tiny fragile cruiser/sci ship? You don't have the extra warp core power/hull/shields to make engineer skills shine as they should, nor do you have the extra aux/sub targeting/shields that make the sci skills shine. You can spec for primarilly defense... but then what would be the point of flying a fast maneuverable combat ship? It always has, and always will be a 'hit and run' ship. Honestly, mosquito tactics only seem to work when you have a LOT of support from other ships.
Raptors may not have the capabillity of extra engie/sci slots, but it has always been and always will be a death dealing combat machine. It's Klingon tech doing what it does best... offence.
Not really when you consider the fact that Cryptic chose to make an Excelsior class that tops the Sovereign class. You could just say that the Raptor was redesigned cause why would you be using out dated cloaking technology so far in the future?
Now, I respect a BoP more having learned more about them... but I still love my raptor. It just looks cool, and the survivability is great, and the firepower is raw and uncut
Meh, anachronistic conversation now as I think I asked that question initially before the Excelsior T5 jibba jabba came out?
I wouldn't even know where to begin approaching such a discussion in March of 2011 with the game and the ships the way they are now.
I flew a raptor with my KDF character up until just now when I got a Nausicaan overpriced ship from the C-Store because my character is Nausicaan and I wanted him to fly his home planet's ship.
The raptor's a better ship though.
Makes me want to play it even more ... just to see if I can make it work.
Can I port my Defiant over?
There is a very nice balance with the Raptor.
It has good dps, strong turn rate, and decent defense ... and is as fun as my Fed Defiant.
I do this on both my Raptor and Defiant.
Since I am not running any regular torps or beams most of the ensign skills are useless for now I am running 3 TT. I am running CRF 1 and 2 with a CSV for just in case I run up against a spammer or plasma or Tric ship.
Yes ... but in a BoP you have more room for a handy dandy tractor beam.
Go Klingon cowboy on them ... throw the lasso around them and then blow the <<beep>> out of them.
I also find decloaking on their aft quarter helps a bit as well.
For me ... my defiant is beams, but it seems that most go for cannons.
True the Versatility of the BoP makes up for its lower DPS than the Def-R in a 1vs1 fight since you can "out trick" the Def-R and even the playing field.
The Raptor has the Brute strength to go toe-to-toe with a Def-R and takes more timing than a BoP does to kill one. Fortunately brute strength is something a Raptor does well and its resilant enough in a fight to survive.
How true even though it handles like a school bus compared to the Porsche type handling of a Defiant and the F1 handling of the Gamma section of the MVAM AE.
The extra engineering console is key, throw in the borg console you can get a good engine and shield power setting with weapon power still at 125.
Like I posted earlier I have 125/90 weapon power so I have 10 extra to put into shields and/or engines or you can put it into aux.
I currently have only acquired the Borg engine. I plan to do more of the STFs with BRJ and friends soon, after some RL drama finally passes and allows me the time.:D
Use the drift that is inherent (slightly) to the raptor. Sharp turn to swing the back end out a drift by an opponent sideways almost.
I find I still fly the Raptor like a BoP at times to my detriment in pvp due to old habits.
Yup, I like to fly my raptor like a BOP...However, I find that using some cruiser tactics to just mess with people keeps them guessing.
If I see someone has the advantage on the turnrate, or if they are protecting their shield facing I tore down and I cannot get around them, I order full-astern, and the resulting full reverse allows me to flip my ship around and bring the 3 DHC's to bear on the target. I know it's old but I use my tricobalt on my rear...and I only fire it on cruisers I know have a shield facing coming down, or if I know the torpedo won't hit a down facing shield, I use it to blast a ship over and into my firing arc faster...I found that the tricobalt blast shoving the ship a way in pve also works in PVP.. Perhaps it's casual player luck, or the Luck of the Irish, but I feel it's an ok setup.
BTW....hope ye get back up and running soon Roach...we need more people in PVP...so get back on...I have an annoying Ferengi for you to slap around if you do...
We look forward to getting you through the rest of them, my friend.
I actually just switched to the Raptor, this past week, after having flown the BoP extensively for about 6 months, so far, I find that I miss the turn-rate a little, but not nearly so much as I'd expected.
My first ship when I came over to the "dark" side (let's face it, we have cookies, we must be the dark side
Until this past week, however, when I decided that I wanted a new challenge, and picked up my first BoP... I've flown a Fed-side Defiant with one of my Engineers (and am actually leveling an Escort-traited Engineer, just to fly one), and really enjoy it, but the Raptor has the unique distinction of having the extra sturdiness (yes, one Engineering console CAN really make a huge difference) while packing every possible Tactical power into a sleek and deadly-looking frame. Not as flexible as the BoP, the Raptor has to do a little work to get the most mileage out of its abilities (compensating for the lower turn-rate against Defiants, in particular), it is a truly rewarding and powerful ship to fly, and I recommend that every Klingon Engineer out there, give the Raptor a shot, at least, and see what you can make of it.
-Big Red