Didn't the BoP that Dr Noonian Sung stole in Enterprise have a cloak? Pretty sure it did.
Eh, "Enterprise" broke everything. The day they showed Romulan ships with cloaking devices is the day I decided it must be an alternate timeline. (The Rommie cloak was new tech to Kirk and Spock, and as such was a key factor in "Balance of Terror" and "Enterprise Incident.")
I purchased a Tier5 Raptor today so I'd have something to fly while leveling up. Figured the process would be less painless than trying to fly a healing-equipped Battle Cruiser with all turrets.
Officer layout.
Tactical 1: Tactical Team 1, Attack Pattern Delta 1, Fire At Will 3, Attack Pattern Beta 3 Tactical 2: Tactical Team 1, Fire At Will 2, Torpedo (High Yield) 3. Tactical 3: Torpedo (Spread) 1. Engineer: Emergency Power (Weapons) 1, Reverse Shield Polarity 1. Science: Tractor Beam 1, Scramble Sensors 1.
Yeah, you guys must be thinking; no heals?! Scramble Sensors?! Where's Cannon Rapid fire?! Beam Fire At Will?! Looks like a total mess, I know! But remember; I picked these powers for PvE. I have 3 Dual Beam Banks forward, one Photon torpedo launcher, and three turrets in the rear. I'm an Engineer captain, not tactical.
Against a single target, Beam Fire At Will chews through them like a machine gun.. it's essentially rapid fire for Beams. Attack patterns provide debuffs (and a bit of defense). I chain Tactical Teams for the temporary damage boost. Emergency Power Weapons for the same. Tractor Beam to pin a target so I can unload on their weak shields easier. Fire at Will + Attack Pattern Beta + Scramble Sensors is good for those groups of 3 Frigate-type NPC ships, too.
I decided to help a friend with her PVP dailies; it was fairly fun flying a Raptor.. I did a lot better than I thought I would. FAW3 is merciless when you can keep a single target infront of you... especially for de-cloak alpha strike versus someone who wandered a bit too far from home. In one of my matches I came across a DSSV who had lagged behind the Fedball and decloaked, fully buffed, and let rip with FAW3 and the Fed ship exploded in seconds. It was glorious! Scramble Sensors are always fun to use on healers when you're pressuring them with raw DPS.
Of all the pvp matches I did, I ended up doing the most damage, which kind of surprised me -- Fire at Will isn't exactly the best skill for Arena matches... plus I'm an Engineer with my skills spent for healing.
Flukes, I guess! Raptors are pretty sweet, though.
honestly the only reason to fly the raptor in tier 5 is looks, the bop only loses a rear turret slot and can equip bos of any type in every slot, after running both specced for both i found the battle cloak and bo flexability on the bird of prey make it a vastly superior killing machine over the raptor which once you make your prescence known youre just plain ****ed if the enemy catches on to your emergency escape routine and chases you down.
honestly the only reason to fly the raptor in tier 5 is looks, the bop only loses a rear turret slot and can equip bos of any type in every slot, after running both specced for both i found the battle cloak and bo flexability on the bird of prey make it a vastly superior killing machine over the raptor which once you make your prescence known youre just plain ****ed if the enemy catches on to your emergency escape routine and chases you down.
That would be both irrelevant to the topic of the thread and... wrong.
9000 more hull and more firepower = better tactical option. A BoP can only become more survivable than a Raptor by giving up the tactical options that give any tactical ship the damage it needs to be useful... so to come close to a Raptor in damage, a BoP must become the most fragile ship in the game.
That would be both irrelevant to the topic of the thread and... wrong.
9000 more hull and more firepower = better tactical option. A BoP can only become more survivable than a Raptor by giving up the tactical options that give any tactical ship the damage it needs to be useful... so to come close to a Raptor in damage, a BoP must become the most fragile ship in the game.
well then clearly you havent specced into both and parsed them, the bop clearly beats the raptor in survivability with battle cloaking, and gains all those extra alpha strike decloaking damage boosts, you onlly lose 1 minimilzed tac console, the new console numbers really do suck, and 1 turret from the rear, also negated by the battle cloak. the bops nimblesness makes keeping cannons trained on target so easy even a child can do it, where in a head on fight with another escort the raptor is only equally nimble, the bop runs circles around them.
true though that the bop is a glass encased nuclear bomb waiting for a good jolt to be set off, you have to speed tank in it and use that battle cloak to its full advantages.
well then clearly you havent specced into both and parsed them, the bop clearly beats the raptor in survivability with battle cloaking,
No really. Unless you replace dps tac skills with non-dps engineer skills, the Raptor will still be more survivable. More to the point, the Raptor has in--fight hang time to keep shooting, whereas a BoP cloaking to stay alive is suddenly producing exactly zero dps just as the point a Raptor should be popping 'Go Down Fighting' and blasting away to even more effect.
and gains all those extra alpha strike decloaking damage boosts,
A Raptor also can a cloak and then decloak for the alpha strike but cloaking and decloaking for the damage buff mid fight is suicidal.
The Bird of Prey feels more like a Jack of all trades ship good at every thing but master of nothing.
The Raptor is a pure blooded combat ship fast speedie with high dmg I picked it up as a Lt. Commander and I would never change It just reminds me of the D6 Klingon Light Cruiser form Klingon Academy and star fleet command 1, 2, Orion pirates.
I admit it has flaws not enough eng. equipment or science equipment, eng bridge officer skills.
But the Raptor is the pure combat ship and it lives up to its name.
The Bird of Prey feels more like a Jack of all trades ship good at every thing but master of nothing.
The Raptor is a pure blooded combat ship fast speedie with high dmg I picked it up as a Lt. Commander and I would never change It just reminds me of the D6 Klingon Light Cruiser form Klingon Academy and star fleet command 1, 2, Orion pirates.
I prefer a raptor. Don't know how or why it happened. But it just ended up being the ship that fits me well enough on the KDF side.
That being said, the BoP's super insane turn rate, coupled with its weapons potential and universal slots make it a very effective damage dealing ship.
I don't know. I see a lot of well played BoPs out there.
Well the BoP can be set as a Raptor with one less tac console and less hull but with much better turn rate and battle cloak.
I can run the same setup on both ships ( not counting the 3rd ensign tac slot though). Damage to the max.
Comes down to personal preference.
With the BoP you have to be alot more aware. The Raptor maxxed out has a hull of almost 38K ( if I remember correctly) the BoP only 25K ( again I could be wrong with the numbers).
The Raptor would be awsome with the uni ensign slot - as requested for sucha long time.
I play my BoP as raptor basicaly, with more engineering stuff and battlecloak. If raptor had battlecloak, i would play it. FOr me, the battlecloak is the most valuable tool in fight.
The Raptor would be awsome with the uni ensign slot - as requested for sucha long time.
Raptor would be awesomely over powered with a universal slot...
...no ships other than BoP should *ever* have even a single universal slot and the price the BoP pays is being the most fragile ship in the game. Both the Raptor and BoP are just fine as they are.
Raptor would be awesomely over powered with a universal slot...
...no ships other than BoP should *ever* have even a single universal slot and the price the BoP pays is being the most fragile ship in the game. Both the Raptor and BoP are just fine as they are.
I'm not sure about that...if it's only an ensign slot. If you made it Science, you'd basically be an Advanced Escort. Engineering, a Fleet Escort.
well raptor is like an escort with a sci ships defence, at least thats how they feel when i play them, they take alot more hits then escorts or bops and can dish out just as mutch dps, i love em,too bad they all look the same
Eh, "Enterprise" broke everything. The day they showed Romulan ships with cloaking devices is the day I decided it must be an alternate timeline. (The Rommie cloak was new tech to Kirk and Spock, and as such was a key factor in "Balance of Terror" and "Enterprise Incident.")
It was alt time line. Cause there were borg from when they went back in time durning First Contact movie. NG during the Q borg ep said they had never incountered the Borg before.
So in response to not being able to take out cruisers on other posts, I don't have that issue at all
specced into Phaser , Disruptor, Polaron and quantum torps
Tac- BO1, TAC1, HY1, TSE2,HY2, RF2, CSV2, APO3, APA3,GDF3, BFI3
eng -ET1, RSP1
sci- PH1, HE2
eng consoles- 30 kin res, 2 - 15 kin res/15 all energy res
sci consoles- bio, haz system
tac- 3 +22 cann, 1+22 polaron
fnt - purp dual hvy dis cann, purp dual hvy phaser, purp pol DBB, purp quan torp launcher
back- purp dis turret, purp phaser turret, purp pol beam array
at full throttle (not pull imp) i have 65% def, 40.2 kin dam res, 29.2 all energy res base
easy as pie to destroy whoever i target ,and if focused, easy to retreat repair and get back in fight.
TSE(tar engine subsys) takes away the main ability of any ships defense which is engine power in conj with polaron proc it is just deadly. Granted there are tons of abilities that can repair and make for extended battles, but that makes it soo much fun. Hyper engines with AUX are the way to go so you are never are w/o engines. pol hull and apo3 give ability to break tractor, BFI3 and pol hull and HZ emitters= high kin resist
HZ emitters= easy removal of the always fun EWP debuff.
EM3+hyper impulse engines and eng batt= always being able to escape focus
tac1= removal of boarding party.......yada yada yada
The Raptor has about every ability to Tank for extended periods, do massive damage, and escape alive 98.9% of the time.
I know feds would like me to just sit still and let em kill me, but where is the fun in that.
As always KILL Escorts, SCi ships then cruisers in that order for Maximum Fed whining
Raptor gets the eggs and I get some Fed meat, though, usually the Raptor just replicates the eggs, so by the time I get the Feds, they're spoiled and green.
I've been leveling a new toon specifically to fly the raptor for a bit now.
The biggest issue I'm having is the survivability seems too depleted to be viable, and at T2 at least, I feel I would be better off in a cruiser. This coupled with my experiences blueside at T5 in the Defiant refit, and its sheer uselessness of a 3rd Tac ensign ability, suggest there is a basic flaw somewhere in either the Raptor's design or in the mechanics it is relying on to reach its intended role.
I personally would much rather lose that ensign chair entirely in exchange for a third engineering console, lowering the dps ever so slightly (as that ensign chair is not very effective), but countering it by allowing for a combination of shield, hull, AND EPS consoles, or turn, hull, EPS, or any other combo deemed more survivable. 2 engineering consoles demands compromise, in exchange for an ensign chair that really only shaves 15 seconds off HY volleys, or torp spread, and not much else.
This, or a significant buff to Tac Ensign abilities like Tac Team 1, adding some kind of bonus to it which ensures it has some usefulness when weighed against Sci and Eng team global CD... currently, its simply not an option. Perhaps a significant turn/movement (and thereby dodge) bonus? Something to make that 3rd tac seat feel like it has a point.
The PvP I've been involved in does show some hope for the Raptor in lower tiers, and frankly, I'm not missing battlecloak or the turn rate. If blueside T5 in the refit is any indicator however, the Fleet Escorts there, with their Engineering-heavy leanings, are remarkably better at survival in the current mix (Where the Advanced's anti-CC used to be more effective prior to recent nerfs)
I like the Raptor for its design. The BoP looks weird to me. I like the uni slots but oh well. I have an all beam and torp setup and it does damage. Last night I was tinkering with my BoP and my Raptor and encountered a team. A guy on that team was a raptor captain and I was talking about how my dps was down. He helped me refit my Raptor and respec and get me setup. Him and I teamed up that night and the first 2 pvp rounds he beat me by about 50k but in the CaH I out did him by 30k, I got 620k that night. It was so much fun. We target the same ship get all ready and hit and in about 5 sec the ship went boom. It was awesome. Many times they never saw it coming. Now I got killed a ton of times when I was hit with 3 ships. I just didn't have enough BO skills to heal getting pounded on 3 ships at a time. But that is ok. I'm not a cruiser. If I was my fed toon and got hit by 3 I can survive for a while.
Raptors seem fine to me in compared to a BoP. I mean I can't turn on a dime like the BoP but I can turn quicker than when I fly my escorts. I also like having DBB it looks cool when it shoots on a Raptor. It looks cool on a BoP but not as cool as the Raptor IMO. So for me its about the look but also about how much B**T I can kick.
Same thing with me, though its slightly different situation, i use beams instead of cannons, i know it does more dps, i just don't like cannons, which is why i am likely to go cruiser route or science vessel route, i just wish you could design the look of your ship totally different instead of a mere 3 designs, i think the 3rd tier science vessel, which looks like the USS Pastur or something from 'All Good Things' TNG episodes.....it looks ewwwww.
Thats where i experience the Escort, Akira Class, which i think is designed more for beams, when it comes to appearence when you use them, while the Defiant, its variants and the BoP ships are more designed for cannons...lookwise.
To be completely honest I think the raptor for a tactical pilot is the best for a few reasons, survivability, it is fast, turns on a dime most of the time versatile in using a wide variety of weapon systems, the number of consoles depending on which tier is good, especialy the tier five raptor, the bomb it is and the fact of the matter a raptor is not a piece of massive metall floating in space like the carriers and even the cruiser. I am definitely now a raptor user all the time.
Comments
Didn't the BoP that Dr Noonian Sung stole in Enterprise have a cloak? Pretty sure it did.
Did it? I haven't seen the episode. If it did ... that's ... an interesting break from previous storylines.
Officer layout.
Tactical 1: Tactical Team 1, Attack Pattern Delta 1, Fire At Will 3, Attack Pattern Beta 3
Tactical 2: Tactical Team 1, Fire At Will 2, Torpedo (High Yield) 3.
Tactical 3: Torpedo (Spread) 1.
Engineer: Emergency Power (Weapons) 1, Reverse Shield Polarity 1.
Science: Tractor Beam 1, Scramble Sensors 1.
Yeah, you guys must be thinking; no heals?! Scramble Sensors?! Where's Cannon Rapid fire?! Beam Fire At Will?! Looks like a total mess, I know! But remember; I picked these powers for PvE. I have 3 Dual Beam Banks forward, one Photon torpedo launcher, and three turrets in the rear. I'm an Engineer captain, not tactical.
Against a single target, Beam Fire At Will chews through them like a machine gun.. it's essentially rapid fire for Beams. Attack patterns provide debuffs (and a bit of defense). I chain Tactical Teams for the temporary damage boost. Emergency Power Weapons for the same. Tractor Beam to pin a target so I can unload on their weak shields easier. Fire at Will + Attack Pattern Beta + Scramble Sensors is good for those groups of 3 Frigate-type NPC ships, too.
I decided to help a friend with her PVP dailies; it was fairly fun flying a Raptor.. I did a lot better than I thought I would. FAW3 is merciless when you can keep a single target infront of you... especially for de-cloak alpha strike versus someone who wandered a bit too far from home. In one of my matches I came across a DSSV who had lagged behind the Fedball and decloaked, fully buffed, and let rip with FAW3 and the Fed ship exploded in seconds. It was glorious! Scramble Sensors are always fun to use on healers when you're pressuring them with raw DPS.
Of all the pvp matches I did, I ended up doing the most damage, which kind of surprised me -- Fire at Will isn't exactly the best skill for Arena matches... plus I'm an Engineer with my skills spent for healing.
Flukes, I guess! Raptors are pretty sweet, though.
That would be both irrelevant to the topic of the thread and... wrong.
9000 more hull and more firepower = better tactical option. A BoP can only become more survivable than a Raptor by giving up the tactical options that give any tactical ship the damage it needs to be useful... so to come close to a Raptor in damage, a BoP must become the most fragile ship in the game.
well then clearly you havent specced into both and parsed them, the bop clearly beats the raptor in survivability with battle cloaking, and gains all those extra alpha strike decloaking damage boosts, you onlly lose 1 minimilzed tac console, the new console numbers really do suck, and 1 turret from the rear, also negated by the battle cloak. the bops nimblesness makes keeping cannons trained on target so easy even a child can do it, where in a head on fight with another escort the raptor is only equally nimble, the bop runs circles around them.
true though that the bop is a glass encased nuclear bomb waiting for a good jolt to be set off, you have to speed tank in it and use that battle cloak to its full advantages.
No really. Unless you replace dps tac skills with non-dps engineer skills, the Raptor will still be more survivable. More to the point, the Raptor has in--fight hang time to keep shooting, whereas a BoP cloaking to stay alive is suddenly producing exactly zero dps just as the point a Raptor should be popping 'Go Down Fighting' and blasting away to even more effect.
A Raptor also can a cloak and then decloak for the alpha strike but cloaking and decloaking for the damage buff mid fight is suicidal.
********
The Raptor is a pure blooded combat ship fast speedie with high dmg I picked it up as a Lt. Commander and I would never change It just reminds me of the D6 Klingon Light Cruiser form Klingon Academy and star fleet command 1, 2, Orion pirates.
I admit it has flaws not enough eng. equipment or science equipment, eng bridge officer skills.
But the Raptor is the pure combat ship and it lives up to its name.
Thanks were so demanding
I prefer a raptor. Don't know how or why it happened. But it just ended up being the ship that fits me well enough on the KDF side.
That being said, the BoP's super insane turn rate, coupled with its weapons potential and universal slots make it a very effective damage dealing ship.
I don't know. I see a lot of well played BoPs out there.
I can run the same setup on both ships ( not counting the 3rd ensign tac slot though). Damage to the max.
Comes down to personal preference.
With the BoP you have to be alot more aware. The Raptor maxxed out has a hull of almost 38K ( if I remember correctly) the BoP only 25K ( again I could be wrong with the numbers).
The Raptor would be awsome with the uni ensign slot - as requested for sucha long time.
Raptor would be awesomely over powered with a universal slot...
...no ships other than BoP should *ever* have even a single universal slot and the price the BoP pays is being the most fragile ship in the game. Both the Raptor and BoP are just fine as they are.
I'm not sure about that...if it's only an ensign slot. If you made it Science, you'd basically be an Advanced Escort. Engineering, a Fleet Escort.
It was alt time line. Cause there were borg from when they went back in time durning First Contact movie. NG during the Q borg ep said they had never incountered the Borg before.
Bad bad bad bad idea. And every Fed will be whining for one too on the Defiant. Raptor is just fine as it is and BoP should remain unique.
specced into Phaser , Disruptor, Polaron and quantum torps
Tac- BO1, TAC1, HY1, TSE2,HY2, RF2, CSV2, APO3, APA3,GDF3, BFI3
eng -ET1, RSP1
sci- PH1, HE2
eng consoles- 30 kin res, 2 - 15 kin res/15 all energy res
sci consoles- bio, haz system
tac- 3 +22 cann, 1+22 polaron
fnt - purp dual hvy dis cann, purp dual hvy phaser, purp pol DBB, purp quan torp launcher
back- purp dis turret, purp phaser turret, purp pol beam array
at full throttle (not pull imp) i have 65% def, 40.2 kin dam res, 29.2 all energy res base
easy as pie to destroy whoever i target ,and if focused, easy to retreat repair and get back in fight.
TSE(tar engine subsys) takes away the main ability of any ships defense which is engine power in conj with polaron proc it is just deadly. Granted there are tons of abilities that can repair and make for extended battles, but that makes it soo much fun. Hyper engines with AUX are the way to go so you are never are w/o engines. pol hull and apo3 give ability to break tractor, BFI3 and pol hull and HZ emitters= high kin resist
HZ emitters= easy removal of the always fun EWP debuff.
EM3+hyper impulse engines and eng batt= always being able to escape focus
tac1= removal of boarding party.......yada yada yada
The Raptor has about every ability to Tank for extended periods, do massive damage, and escape alive 98.9% of the time.
I know feds would like me to just sit still and let em kill me, but where is the fun in that.
As always KILL Escorts, SCi ships then cruisers in that order for Maximum Fed whining
Glam'Dring
Which reminds me, I want one on the defiant!
Raptor gets the eggs and I get some Fed meat, though, usually the Raptor just replicates the eggs, so by the time I get the Feds, they're spoiled and green.
1x Tetryon Array 1x Transphasic
BOL1 CRF3 HYT3 APO1
The biggest issue I'm having is the survivability seems too depleted to be viable, and at T2 at least, I feel I would be better off in a cruiser. This coupled with my experiences blueside at T5 in the Defiant refit, and its sheer uselessness of a 3rd Tac ensign ability, suggest there is a basic flaw somewhere in either the Raptor's design or in the mechanics it is relying on to reach its intended role.
I personally would much rather lose that ensign chair entirely in exchange for a third engineering console, lowering the dps ever so slightly (as that ensign chair is not very effective), but countering it by allowing for a combination of shield, hull, AND EPS consoles, or turn, hull, EPS, or any other combo deemed more survivable. 2 engineering consoles demands compromise, in exchange for an ensign chair that really only shaves 15 seconds off HY volleys, or torp spread, and not much else.
This, or a significant buff to Tac Ensign abilities like Tac Team 1, adding some kind of bonus to it which ensures it has some usefulness when weighed against Sci and Eng team global CD... currently, its simply not an option. Perhaps a significant turn/movement (and thereby dodge) bonus? Something to make that 3rd tac seat feel like it has a point.
The PvP I've been involved in does show some hope for the Raptor in lower tiers, and frankly, I'm not missing battlecloak or the turn rate. If blueside T5 in the refit is any indicator however, the Fleet Escorts there, with their Engineering-heavy leanings, are remarkably better at survival in the current mix (Where the Advanced's anti-CC used to be more effective prior to recent nerfs)
Raptors seem fine to me in compared to a BoP. I mean I can't turn on a dime like the BoP but I can turn quicker than when I fly my escorts. I also like having DBB it looks cool when it shoots on a Raptor. It looks cool on a BoP but not as cool as the Raptor IMO. So for me its about the look but also about how much B**T I can kick.
Captain Dun'bang KDF
Thats where i experience the Escort, Akira Class, which i think is designed more for beams, when it comes to appearence when you use them, while the Defiant, its variants and the BoP ships are more designed for cannons...lookwise.