if it performs at t2 levels no one would argue against it.
Problem is when people want it at t5 stats.
More people saying this does not make it any less stupid.
Look, you have already shot yourself into the foot with this.
We have the NX replica, build with modern tech and all that.
We already have the TOS conni too, also rebuilt with modern tech.
Both ships are t1.
Both were build with the best available, and both are t1.
They can never be t5. because they are t1, already here, built with the best tech.
full stop.
There also is the modern version of the conni refit, at t2. build with the best tech you can fot for that size. and its t2. it can never be t5. Because it already is the most modern incarnation of that spaceframe. And its just enough to be t2.
So your argument about those ships not being old ships pulled from mothballs is true, and it shot you in the back.
These ships aren't old mothballed hulls. They are the modern incarnation built with modern tech.
And they are placed at t1 and t2 because that is where their size logically requires them to be.
So your argument works against you. stop using it.
SO your argument is that i shot myself in the foot because Star Fleet makes a new version of a ship and its Tier 1?
Ok so now SF makes a new replica with intent it is Tier 5, whats the issue? unless you think i need to shoot myself in the foot again to make it so? Ok wait one, ....Damn that hurt, now i'm shot in the foot, so its ok?
This argument is ridiculous, if they made a new ship that looked like a TOS but decided it should perform at tier 5 levels, it would, i don't get you not understanding this.
I agree that people should be able to refit ships in the game and make them stronger, but I think there should be a limit. You could take a Constitution class vessel and upgrade its warp core, weapons, shields, and whatever, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT but I don't think it will ever be as powerful as a larger more modern ship. The reason is that a Constitution is just too small to house the warp core of a larger vessel, such as a Galaxy class would have. The Consitution wouldn't have the hull space to mount more, or larger weapons that a Galaxy class would have.
The Consitution's warp core sits on a single deck of the ship. the Galaxy's warp core goes down several decks, and is obviously much larger. You would have to fundamentally redesign a Constitution's deck and hull layout to fit a larger warp core into it, and then you would have to upgrade its entire power network (EPS conduits, plasma relays, etc.) to handle the increased power output. You might want to add larger nacelles to take advantage of the improved power. New shield systems might need more space.
It wouldn't be a Constitution anymore. I like customization just as much as any of you do, but there's needs to be sense and reason behind it. UberWTFpwnage noob ships doesn't sit well with me. It's not logical.
SO your argument is that i shot myself in the foot because Star Fleet makes a new version of a ship and its Tier 1?
Ok so now SF makes a new replica with intent it is Tier 5, whats the issue? unless you think i need to shoot myself in the foot again to make it so? Ok wait one, ....Damn that hurt, now i'm shot in the foot, so its ok?
This argument is ridiculous, if they made a new ship that looked like a TOS but decided it should perform at tier 5 levels, it would, i don't get you not understanding this.
because starfleet already said:
look we made this, with the best tech we have but it can only do t1 duty.
Sorry it does not get better than that.
"t5? No we cant make it t5. How are we supposed to do that? there is only so much room to work with. we cant fit all the stuff needed for it rating as suitable for the t5 classification. unless you hand us some 29th century tech or something. So please stop writing us letters about this."
I agree that people should be able to refit ships in the game and make them stronger, but I think there should be a limit. You could take a Constitution class vessel and upgrade its warp core, weapons, shields, and whatever, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT but I don't think it will ever be as powerful as a larger more modern ship. The reason is that a Constitution is just too small to house the warp core of a larger vessel, such as a Galaxy class would have. The Consitution wouldn't have the hull space to mount more, or larger weapons that a Galaxy class would have.
The Consitution's warp core sits on a single deck of the ship. the Galaxy's warp core goes down several decks, and is obviously much larger. You would have to fundamentally redesign a Constitution's deck and hull layout to fit a larger warp core into it, and then you would have to upgrade its entire power network (EPS conduits, plasma relays, etc.) to handle the increased power output. You might want to add larger nacelles to take advantage of the improved power. New shield systems might need more space.
It wouldn't be a Constitution anymore. I like customization just as much as any of you do, but there's needs to be sense and reason behind it. UberWTFpwnage noob ships doesn't sit well with me. It's not logical.
So what if you stick a Defiant warp core in a Connie? Remember the Defiant is a T4 ship in game with a T5 variant.
look we made this, with the best tech we have but it can only do t1 duty.
Sorry it does not get better than that.
"t5? No we cant make it t5. How are we supposed to do that? there is only so much room to work with. we cant fit all the stuff needed for it rating as suitable for the t5 classification. unless you hand us some 29th century tech or something. So please stop writing us letters about this."
By that logic, we shouldnt have T5 refits of the T4 ships like we have in game if they were already the best they could have been when first made.
I agree that people should be able to refit ships in the game and make them stronger, but I think there should be a limit. You could take a Constitution class vessel and upgrade its warp core, weapons, shields, and whatever, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT but I don't think it will ever be as powerful as a larger more modern ship. The reason is that a Constitution is just too small to house the warp core of a larger vessel, such as a Galaxy class would have. The Consitution wouldn't have the hull space to mount more, or larger weapons that a Galaxy class would have.
The Consitution's warp core sits on a single deck of the ship. the Galaxy's warp core goes down several decks, and is obviously much larger. You would have to fundamentally redesign a Constitution's deck and hull layout to fit a larger warp core into it, and then you would have to upgrade its entire power network (EPS conduits, plasma relays, etc.) to handle the increased power output. You might want to add larger nacelles to take advantage of the improved power. New shield systems might need more space.
It wouldn't be a Constitution anymore. I like customization just as much as any of you do, but there's needs to be sense and reason behind it. UberWTFpwnage noob ships doesn't sit well with me. It's not logical.
Did you see that very looooong part behind it? that seems to be part of the warp core? maybe if you took and put that hole thing stacked it'd be twice the size/3 times the size of a galaxy class warpcore?
Edit to Add: I vaguely recall the warp core in TOS connie to be bigger then either of those if you look past mesh on one of the episodes (the scale doesn't work for the ship size with the amount of crew it had but meh that's just me being nitpicky)
Seriously, it's not much of a stretch to redesign the interior to fit a warp core and 25th century tech while preserving the outer chassis.
That is true. The decks could be completely redesigned on the inside and the outer shape could remain the same. Kind of like how people knock out walls on the inside of their house without it changing the shape on the outside :rolleyes:
I think the problem is more to do with the tier system. Each tier has 3 different types of vessels to pick from..... Escort, Science and Cruiser, and each have around 3-4 variations to choose from which is not enough at tier 5 ,but the main problem is all the ships have the same base stats in their type. All ships should have their own stats so they all have their plus points and their minus points.
I can understand why people would not want an NX replica with the same t5 stats as a Soverign... but under the current system it would do... but thats no excuse to not have it at t5, its a reason to stop tiers at 5 and give the ships at tier 5 individual stats.
look we made this, with the best tech we have but it can only do t1 duty.
Sorry it does not get better than that.
"t5? No we cant make it t5. How are we supposed to do that? there is only so much room to work with. we cant fit all the stuff needed for it rating as suitable for the t5 classification. unless you hand us some 29th century tech or something. So please stop writing us letters about this."
And you just wont except the fact, that maybe, just maybe, they kept it small to try it out, Pre Production models so to say.
Now the idea of modular construction is proven, they decided to say"o.k, Now we will make a connie the size of a sovereign"
It would not be the realm of the impossible, and TBH, the circular argument you are using is getting old and tiring.
Bottom line is this is gonna make it into game sooner or later. People have asked for this every other day for a year.
I think the problem is more to do with the tier system. Each tier has 3 different types of vessels to pick from..... Escort, Science and Cruiser, and each have around 3-4 variations to choose from which is not enough at tier 5 ,but the main problem is all the ships have the same base stats in their type. All ships should have their own stats so they all have their plus points and their minus points.
I can understand why people would not want an NX replica with the same t5 stats as a Soverign... but under the current system it would do... but thats no excuse to not have it at t5, its a reason to stop tiers at 5 and give the ships at tier 5 individual stats.
I think the NX would end up being level with the fleet, or advanced escorts, possibly defiant at T5 (it's an escort in game) but I agree.
Did you see that very looooong part behind it? that seems to be part of the warp core? maybe if you took and put that hole thing stacked it'd be twice the size/3 times the size of a galaxy class warpcore?
Edit to Add: I vaguely recall the warp core in TOS connie to be bigger then either of those if you look past mesh on one of the episodes (the scale doesn't work for the ship size with the amount of crew it had but meh that's just me being nitpicky)
Yes but if you look at the Galaxy warp core, it has a horizontal tube coming out the warp core too, in red. I don't understand exactly how warp cores are supposed to work, but I think the vertical tube creates a super-hot plasma from a matter/antimatter reaction that is then converted into power somehow and funneled through the horizontal tube and into the rest of the ship.
That is true. The decks could be completely redesigned on the inside and the outer shape could remain the same. Kind of like how people knock out walls on the inside of their house without it changing the shape on the outside :rolleyes:
Or when I put the interior components from a Asus Mini PC into a Commodore 64 Chassis for the lolz.
As you can see, the warp core itself is a small part of the ship. Funny thing is, theres actually a really counter-argument to this, but no one seems to know it yet.
Yes but if you look at the Galaxy warp core, it has a horizontal tube coming out the warp core too, in red. I don't understand exactly how warp cores are supposed to work, but I think the vertical tube creates a super-hot plasma from a matter/antimatter reaction that is then converted into power somehow and funneled through the horizontal tube and into the rest of the ship.
I think. I could be completely wrong.
Watch enterprise and look at the warpcore on that it's laying sideways but it's still pretty long. Basically the warpcore in the galaxy is vertical (sp) and the warpcore in the older ships seems to be horizontal. And yet somehow looks completly different as I recall when spock tries to fix the dilithium crystals or whatever in Wrath of Khan. Meh Point is if they can get a warpcore to power a defiant in it's tiny little hull, they can do it on a TOS Connie.
I agree that people should be able to refit ships in the game and make them stronger, but I think there should be a limit. You could take a Constitution class vessel and upgrade its warp core, weapons, shields, and whatever, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT but I don't think it will ever be as powerful as a larger more modern ship. The reason is that a Constitution is just too small to house the warp core of a larger vessel, such as a Galaxy class would have. The Consitution wouldn't have the hull space to mount more, or larger weapons that a Galaxy class would have.
The Consitution's warp core sits on a single deck of the ship. the Galaxy's warp core goes down several decks, and is obviously much larger. You would have to fundamentally redesign a Constitution's deck and hull layout to fit a larger warp core into it, and then you would have to upgrade its entire power network (EPS conduits, plasma relays, etc.) to handle the increased power output. You might want to add larger nacelles to take advantage of the improved power. New shield systems might need more space.
It wouldn't be a Constitution anymore. I like customization just as much as any of you do, but there's needs to be sense and reason behind it. UberWTFpwnage noob ships doesn't sit well with me. It's not logical.
And what about the Defiant's Warp Core? do you honestly think it shouldn't have the speed it does in sector space that a Galaxy does? I mean.. it has a MUCH smaller warp core.. right? Same with their shields and weapons. I can put the same shields on either the Defiant or the Galaxy. I can put the same beams/torps on either the Galaxy or the Defiant... Cannons can't go on the regular Galaxy, but you can slot dual cannons on the Dreadnought.
So where does that leave your argument again?
Saith
Edit to Add:
Any just why is it that you and others feel that if a T5 NX were created and released it would be "UberWTFpwnage"?
Unfortunately Peregrin is exactly right. Hate when that happens
I missed seeing a blown apart Connie in the Wolf 359 carnage in the TNG ep. Can you imagine Locutus laughing his TRIBBLE off seeing a Connie come at him? Likely Starfleet freaked out, and dusted off a Connie real fast sitting in a musuem, and told some Ensign to take command of it and cross his fingers. He was likely the first ship to get pwned.
I did enjoy my time as a Constitution Captain. But if I were Cryptic, I would have approached this game from a multiple time line approach, that DIDNT overlap. Meaning, you always start as a Captain, DUH. But in the beginning, you are in the TOS era. Then as you rank up, the Excelsior B timeline opens up to play in. Then the Enterprise D, etc. Then you would only see and play against the proper era ships. Eventually you could open up the Bizarro timeline where Borg mods are acceptable to add to your ships, lol. And then open up the current 25th century timeline, with the PROPER new ships that Cryptic is too afraid to design themselves. THATS how this game should have been done, not mixing in every era ship into the same timeline in some BAD tasting crock pot recipe. But hey, Im just a canon TRIBBLE, so what do I know.
But hey, Im just a canon TRIBBLE, so what do I know.
Please.. ALL of you "Canon TRIBBLE's" need to read this page
"The Star Trek canon is the set of all canonical material in the Star Trek universe. It is usually defined as comprising the television series Star Trek, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek: Voyager, Star Trek: Enterprise, and the first ten motion pictures in the franchise. However, the official Star Trek website acknowledges that this definition is not set in stone, but that the notion of what constitutes canon in Star Trek is fluid, open to interpretation and debate."
*snip*
"To further complicate matters, it has been noted that Gene Roddenberry was something of a revisionist when it came to canon. People who worked with Roddenberry remember that he used to handle canon not on a series-by-series basis nor an episode-by-episode basis, but point by point. If he changed his mind on something, or if a fact in one episode contradicted what he considered to be a more important fact in another episode, he had no problem declaring that specific point non-canon."
Star Trek contradicts it's OWN canon multitudes of times. That is a given fact... PERIOD.
STO is an MMO where Canon MUST be altered due to it being a game format, and not a television/movie broadcast. Adding these "classic ships" doesn't break canon, as they are explained to be replicas... and even if it were a violation of canon.. Canon isn't some sacrosanct edict that must be followed.. because even Roddenberry himself thought story was more important than Canon.
You dont have to like it, but as far as the story of the game goes these arent old ships, they are NEW ships that LOOK like old ships. Canon argument = defeated.
Except it produces a stronger argument.
Why are those brand-new ships so weak if they could be made on par with the most powerful ones?
Why are those brand-new ships so weak if they could be made on par with the most powerful ones?
They arent "so weak", they are on par with the ships of their respective tier. The TOS connie and NX replica are on par with the other modern starter ships. The TMP connie is on par with the modern T2 cruiser Exaclibur. The standard Excelsior is on par with the other modern T3 cruisers. So their current placement makes sense. The question is whether it makes sense for there to be more powerful versions as well(like the Excelsior refit that is T5).
Now the idea of modular construction is proven, they decided to say"o.k, Now we will make a connie the size of a sovereign"
Now this would be appropriate.
There were one or two really good Enterprise-F designs that had a very Connie profile, and upscaled Connie parts would probably work with it.
A long, long time ago I suggested a similar deal with the NX class and the Akira (even easier, since the NX model is just the Akira beaten with an ugly stick).
But such things have already been objected to by the demanders in several other threads.
Why are those brand-new ships so weak if they could be made on par with the most powerful ones?
Umm, for an in-game justification... broad-release testing? To see if these "replicas" would be battle worthy in long-term, wide-spread use?
For a production stand point... because a fairly sizable portion of the player base wants, and is willing to pay for.. higher tiered versions of said ships, for the purpose of granting the players the ability to keep their favorite ships after their tier is surpassed. This is something that the devs, themselves, have said they want to do.. they just haven't give us the details on how it will be done, when it will be done, or what ships will be included, or restricted from said "retrofits."
They arent "so weak", they are on par with the ships of their respective tier. The TOS connie and NX replica are on par with the other modern starter ships. The TMP connie is on par with the modern T2 cruiser Exaclibur. The standard Excelsior is on par with the other modern T3 cruisers. So their current placement makes sense. The question is whether it makes sense for there to be more powerful versions as well(like the Excelsior refit that is T5).
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Compared to T5, T2 ships are weak. And I'm of the opinion that the Excelsior-5 is a very far stretch, with bringing up a T2 being even farther.
I just want my T6 TOS Enterprise so I can fly around in this game with a completely nostalgic feel from uniform to phaser pistol to ship I fly.
And this thread definitely makes the case that I can get a TOS Enterprise with T6 capability. Since it's just a replica of the ship that I should be able to buy on the C-Store.
Let's make this happen.
I never understood why people were so against a T-5 NX Enterprise, but yet embraced the hell out of a T5 Excelsior.
"22nd century warp cores were designed as oblong cylinders connected by pylon conduits directly into the warp nacelles. In the 23rd century, the main warp reaction occurred in a dilithium crystal converter assembly which consisted of two flattened rounded nodules situated directly in front of the warp plasma conduits to the warp engines, which were behind a large metal grate. By 2270, most Federation warp cores were redesigned to consist of a large warp core unit in the secondary hull with matter and anti-matter channeling into the core through vertical conduits, with the resulting energy directed to the nacelles through a horizontal conduit leading out from the rear of the core. "
So the vertical tubes are the "Warp Core" where the power is produced and the horizontal tube coming out of it transfers energy to the nacelles. That would make sense, since the nacelles would be using most of the energy produced by the warp core to make the ship travel at warp speeds.
"The warp core is located in the aft engineering section and spans the top three decks vertically. The matter-antimatter reaction assembly (M/ARA) is embedded within Deck 3. The core is constructed from a central translucent aluminum and duranium reactor with dilithium articulation frame, four-lobed magnetic constriction segment columns, and matter and antimatter injectors. The warp field coils, unlike most Federation ships, are located within the main hull as opposed to outboard nacelles. The Class-7 warp reactor is extremely powerful for a ship of this size, and as such, Defiant-class vessels put out a warp signature equivalent to much larger starships. The standard maximum warp speed of the a Defiant class ship is Warp 9.5, however, a speed of Warp 9.982 can be reached if power from the pulse phaser capacitors is used. In the event of a possible warp core breach, the main M/ARA is not designed to be ejected like on larger starships. Instead, a series of four circular plasma exhaust vents on both the port and starboard sides of the ship are used to vent out the highly volatile warp plasma before it has a chance to breach the containment vessel. Deuterium and anti-deuterium reactants are cut off upstream from the reaction chamber and the core is brought to a cold shutdown."
The Defiant-class warp core spans three decks vertically. Placing the warp core horizontally would violate established Starfleet design principles. So you better be prepared to knock out a few decks in your Constitution.
I've seen a resto-mod 1967 mustang beat a 2010 Porsche in a race so who's to say that a retrofitted Connie can't be useful in 2409?
Try a 150 year old car instead..
And sure, a retro Constitution might be useful in 2409, as a museum piece, or a towship, or a target hull.. It might even be useful as a secondary ship, a light cruiser suited for police/customs duties.. Even so it should be modernized (modern deflector, nacelles etc.. Kinda like the 2009 Movie version)
It should certainly not be on par with a 150 year younger design, that is nearly twice as big.
But that really has nothing to do with what we're discussion. We're discussing whether a smaller ship could "take on" a larger ship, not whether it could explore as long.
Although the car from the 60s could still beat alot of modern cars, your point is correct. From the C-store description of the NX replica:
You dont have to like it, but as far as the story of the game goes these arent old ships, they are NEW ships that LOOK like old ships. Canon argument = defeated.
Comments
SO your argument is that i shot myself in the foot because Star Fleet makes a new version of a ship and its Tier 1?
Ok so now SF makes a new replica with intent it is Tier 5, whats the issue? unless you think i need to shoot myself in the foot again to make it so? Ok wait one, ....Damn that hurt, now i'm shot in the foot, so its ok?
This argument is ridiculous, if they made a new ship that looked like a TOS but decided it should perform at tier 5 levels, it would, i don't get you not understanding this.
For comparison:
A Constitution's warp core:
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Constitution_class_refit_engineering.jpg
A Galaxy's warp core:
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Warp_core,_Enterprise-D.jpg
The Consitution's warp core sits on a single deck of the ship. the Galaxy's warp core goes down several decks, and is obviously much larger. You would have to fundamentally redesign a Constitution's deck and hull layout to fit a larger warp core into it, and then you would have to upgrade its entire power network (EPS conduits, plasma relays, etc.) to handle the increased power output. You might want to add larger nacelles to take advantage of the improved power. New shield systems might need more space.
It wouldn't be a Constitution anymore. I like customization just as much as any of you do, but there's needs to be sense and reason behind it. UberWTFpwnage noob ships doesn't sit well with me. It's not logical.
because starfleet already said:
look we made this, with the best tech we have but it can only do t1 duty.
Sorry it does not get better than that.
"t5? No we cant make it t5. How are we supposed to do that? there is only so much room to work with. we cant fit all the stuff needed for it rating as suitable for the t5 classification. unless you hand us some 29th century tech or something. So please stop writing us letters about this."
So what if you stick a Defiant warp core in a Connie? Remember the Defiant is a T4 ship in game with a T5 variant.
By that logic, we shouldnt have T5 refits of the T4 ships like we have in game if they were already the best they could have been when first made.
Did you see that very looooong part behind it? that seems to be part of the warp core? maybe if you took and put that hole thing stacked it'd be twice the size/3 times the size of a galaxy class warpcore?
Edit to Add: I vaguely recall the warp core in TOS connie to be bigger then either of those if you look past mesh on one of the episodes (the scale doesn't work for the ship size with the amount of crew it had but meh that's just me being nitpicky)
That is true. The decks could be completely redesigned on the inside and the outer shape could remain the same. Kind of like how people knock out walls on the inside of their house without it changing the shape on the outside :rolleyes:
I can understand why people would not want an NX replica with the same t5 stats as a Soverign... but under the current system it would do... but thats no excuse to not have it at t5, its a reason to stop tiers at 5 and give the ships at tier 5 individual stats.
And you just wont except the fact, that maybe, just maybe, they kept it small to try it out, Pre Production models so to say.
Now the idea of modular construction is proven, they decided to say"o.k, Now we will make a connie the size of a sovereign"
It would not be the realm of the impossible, and TBH, the circular argument you are using is getting old and tiring.
Bottom line is this is gonna make it into game sooner or later. People have asked for this every other day for a year.
I think the NX would end up being level with the fleet, or advanced escorts, possibly defiant at T5 (it's an escort in game) but I agree.
The Defiant is basically a warpcore with weapons and impulse engines strapped on..
Yes but if you look at the Galaxy warp core, it has a horizontal tube coming out the warp core too, in red. I don't understand exactly how warp cores are supposed to work, but I think the vertical tube creates a super-hot plasma from a matter/antimatter reaction that is then converted into power somehow and funneled through the horizontal tube and into the rest of the ship.
I think. I could be completely wrong.
Or when I put the interior components from a Asus Mini PC into a Commodore 64 Chassis for the lolz.
http://wiki.maquis.com/images/5/58/Defiant_Deck_Cutaway1.gif
As you can see, the warp core itself is a small part of the ship.
Funny thing is, theres actually a really counter-argument to this, but no one seems to know it yet.
Watch enterprise and look at the warpcore on that it's laying sideways but it's still pretty long. Basically the warpcore in the galaxy is vertical (sp) and the warpcore in the older ships seems to be horizontal. And yet somehow looks completly different as I recall when spock tries to fix the dilithium crystals or whatever in Wrath of Khan. Meh Point is if they can get a warpcore to power a defiant in it's tiny little hull, they can do it on a TOS Connie.
And what about the Defiant's Warp Core? do you honestly think it shouldn't have the speed it does in sector space that a Galaxy does? I mean.. it has a MUCH smaller warp core.. right? Same with their shields and weapons. I can put the same shields on either the Defiant or the Galaxy. I can put the same beams/torps on either the Galaxy or the Defiant... Cannons can't go on the regular Galaxy, but you can slot dual cannons on the Dreadnought.
So where does that leave your argument again?
Saith
Edit to Add:
Any just why is it that you and others feel that if a T5 NX were created and released it would be "UberWTFpwnage"?
I missed seeing a blown apart Connie in the Wolf 359 carnage in the TNG ep. Can you imagine Locutus laughing his TRIBBLE off seeing a Connie come at him? Likely Starfleet freaked out, and dusted off a Connie real fast sitting in a musuem, and told some Ensign to take command of it and cross his fingers. He was likely the first ship to get pwned.
I did enjoy my time as a Constitution Captain. But if I were Cryptic, I would have approached this game from a multiple time line approach, that DIDNT overlap. Meaning, you always start as a Captain, DUH. But in the beginning, you are in the TOS era. Then as you rank up, the Excelsior B timeline opens up to play in. Then the Enterprise D, etc. Then you would only see and play against the proper era ships. Eventually you could open up the Bizarro timeline where Borg mods are acceptable to add to your ships, lol. And then open up the current 25th century timeline, with the PROPER new ships that Cryptic is too afraid to design themselves. THATS how this game should have been done, not mixing in every era ship into the same timeline in some BAD tasting crock pot recipe. But hey, Im just a canon TRIBBLE, so what do I know.
Please.. ALL of you "Canon TRIBBLE's" need to read this page
*snip*
Star Trek contradicts it's OWN canon multitudes of times. That is a given fact... PERIOD.
STO is an MMO where Canon MUST be altered due to it being a game format, and not a television/movie broadcast. Adding these "classic ships" doesn't break canon, as they are explained to be replicas... and even if it were a violation of canon.. Canon isn't some sacrosanct edict that must be followed.. because even Roddenberry himself thought story was more important than Canon.
Except it produces a stronger argument.
Why are those brand-new ships so weak if they could be made on par with the most powerful ones?
They arent "so weak", they are on par with the ships of their respective tier. The TOS connie and NX replica are on par with the other modern starter ships. The TMP connie is on par with the modern T2 cruiser Exaclibur. The standard Excelsior is on par with the other modern T3 cruisers. So their current placement makes sense. The question is whether it makes sense for there to be more powerful versions as well(like the Excelsior refit that is T5).
Now this would be appropriate.
There were one or two really good Enterprise-F designs that had a very Connie profile, and upscaled Connie parts would probably work with it.
A long, long time ago I suggested a similar deal with the NX class and the Akira (even easier, since the NX model is just the Akira beaten with an ugly stick).
But such things have already been objected to by the demanders in several other threads.
Umm, for an in-game justification... broad-release testing? To see if these "replicas" would be battle worthy in long-term, wide-spread use?
For a production stand point... because a fairly sizable portion of the player base wants, and is willing to pay for.. higher tiered versions of said ships, for the purpose of granting the players the ability to keep their favorite ships after their tier is surpassed. This is something that the devs, themselves, have said they want to do.. they just haven't give us the details on how it will be done, when it will be done, or what ships will be included, or restricted from said "retrofits."
Saith
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Compared to T5, T2 ships are weak. And I'm of the opinion that the Excelsior-5 is a very far stretch, with bringing up a T2 being even farther.
And this thread definitely makes the case that I can get a TOS Enterprise with T6 capability. Since it's just a replica of the ship that I should be able to buy on the C-Store.
Let's make this happen.
I never understood why people were so against a T-5 NX Enterprise, but yet embraced the hell out of a T5 Excelsior.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Warp_core
"22nd century warp cores were designed as oblong cylinders connected by pylon conduits directly into the warp nacelles. In the 23rd century, the main warp reaction occurred in a dilithium crystal converter assembly which consisted of two flattened rounded nodules situated directly in front of the warp plasma conduits to the warp engines, which were behind a large metal grate. By 2270, most Federation warp cores were redesigned to consist of a large warp core unit in the secondary hull with matter and anti-matter channeling into the core through vertical conduits, with the resulting energy directed to the nacelles through a horizontal conduit leading out from the rear of the core. "
So the vertical tubes are the "Warp Core" where the power is produced and the horizontal tube coming out of it transfers energy to the nacelles. That would make sense, since the nacelles would be using most of the energy produced by the warp core to make the ship travel at warp speeds.
Also, another page I found:
http://www.stogeek.com/wiki/USS_McKenzie
"The warp core is located in the aft engineering section and spans the top three decks vertically. The matter-antimatter reaction assembly (M/ARA) is embedded within Deck 3. The core is constructed from a central translucent aluminum and duranium reactor with dilithium articulation frame, four-lobed magnetic constriction segment columns, and matter and antimatter injectors. The warp field coils, unlike most Federation ships, are located within the main hull as opposed to outboard nacelles. The Class-7 warp reactor is extremely powerful for a ship of this size, and as such, Defiant-class vessels put out a warp signature equivalent to much larger starships. The standard maximum warp speed of the a Defiant class ship is Warp 9.5, however, a speed of Warp 9.982 can be reached if power from the pulse phaser capacitors is used. In the event of a possible warp core breach, the main M/ARA is not designed to be ejected like on larger starships. Instead, a series of four circular plasma exhaust vents on both the port and starboard sides of the ship are used to vent out the highly volatile warp plasma before it has a chance to breach the containment vessel. Deuterium and anti-deuterium reactants are cut off upstream from the reaction chamber and the core is brought to a cold shutdown."
The Defiant-class warp core spans three decks vertically. Placing the warp core horizontally would violate established Starfleet design principles. So you better be prepared to knock out a few decks in your Constitution.
... Why am I studying warp core design?
*EDIT: updated second link.
Try a 150 year old car instead..
And sure, a retro Constitution might be useful in 2409, as a museum piece, or a towship, or a target hull.. It might even be useful as a secondary ship, a light cruiser suited for police/customs duties.. Even so it should be modernized (modern deflector, nacelles etc.. Kinda like the 2009 Movie version)
It should certainly not be on par with a 150 year younger design, that is nearly twice as big.
So its a "My dad can beat up your dad" thread.
gotcha.
Agreed!