HERE is a good example. ( I hope my Klingon "friends" are not offended at my lack of Klingon design skills) ....
Wow great looking ship! If you add a ton of small windows this could be a huge carrier sized Dreadnought!
If you don't mind...I would love to come up with an idea for it.
Dreadnought (needs a name)
What this ship lacks in advanced science technology it makes up for in extreme durability. This ship was designed for planetary bombardment and occupation. While using the frame of the Vo'Quv, that's about as close as it gets in relation with each other. Hangars have been replaced with barracks, larger engines and large transporter bays for fast troop deployment.
BO Layout
Cm. Tac
LtCm. Eng.
Lt. Tac.
Lt. Eng
En. Uni
Console
4 Eng
1 Sci
4 Tac
Special Abilities
Troop Deployment (tractors a ship and transports large amounts of troops to targeted ship. Random systems failure, large crew debuff and a chance for ships weapons to randomly fire at friendly targets. Has a 3 min cooldown. Polarize Hull breaks tractor and Tactical Team prevents debuff depending on level of ability)
Orbital Bombardment (primarily used to attack structures, this massive cannon can be used to attack a ship if directly beneath the Dreadnought. 3 min cooldown)
Cloak (standard cloak but due to it's immense size, the power needed to cloak this ship requires auxiliary power to be over 65)
D7/K't'inga Class Retrofit D-7X
Class: Cruiser
Minimum Rank: General
Crew: 1,200
Weapons: 4 Fore, 4 Aft
Device Slots: 4
Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Commander Engineering; 1 Lieutenant Engineering; 1 Ensign Engineering; 1 Lieutenant Commander Tactical; 1 Lieutenant Science (or you could go 1 Lieutenant Commander Universal; 1 Lieutenant Universal)
Console Upgrades: 4 Engineering, 2 Science, 3 Tactical
Base Turn Rate: 8 degrees per second
Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Hull Strength: 39,000
+5 Power to all Subsystems
Cloaking Device
Plus there should also be a bonus power or two, just like the fed ships get. Now I've come up with a few that I'll list below (I know the feds will love these). I am not saying that the ship should get all of them. Maybe 1 or 2 of them would work out fine:
+10% Bonus to Shield Strength
Stasis Field Projector (has the ability to knock out one energy system -i.e shields, weapons, impulse, torpedoes- on an enemies ship for 6 seconds) - yes this is actually a canon weapon. It was introduced in Star Trek The Animated Series "More Tribbles, More Troubles". Figure Sci Team can cancel it out. Maybe a 6 second time with at least a 30 second cooldown
Klingon RPL-1 Heavy Plasma Torpedo launcher - a new weapon system that takes a regular plasma torpedo and by using the power of the warp engines, enhances it to do extra damage. Naturally the further away from your target you are, the less damage it does. Shoots 2 torpedoes that do an AOE damage effect. Very limited firing arc like phaser spinal lance and it does a base damage.
"Today is a Good Day to Die": Can tie in the warp engines to the power systems. This could give an extra +5 power bonus to weapons for maybe 10-30 seconds. It should have at least a 1 minute cooldown though.
All these ideas have come from canon material (except the last one as far as I know), be they the Animated Series, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and/or the novels. Now these are just some ideas I had about how the ship should be set up - but you have to admit they would be cool. Now Cryptic, if you are paying attention, please use these stats if you like them; or don't use these stats. Just please give us the D7 retrofit for Lt General's.
Since booker9172's post states that I must admit that it's cool, I shall not explain why a ship that is smaller than a Miranda and only slightly larger than a Vor'cha's warp nacelles and only carried a crew of 400 in the Original Series and is already misplaced on T3 doesn't make sense with these stats at all and would be far better represented as a very heavy Raptor...;)
Since booker9172's post states that I must admit that it's cool, I shall not explain why a ship that is smaller than a Miranda and only slightly larger than a Vor'cha's warp nacelles and only carried a crew of 400 in the Original Series and is already misplaced on T3 doesn't make sense with these stats at all and would be far better represented as a very heavy Raptor...;)
Just trying to keep all the creative juices flowing on new KDF vessel ideas. Very heavy Raptor, eh? SOunds good to me. SO whats has been the offered stats of a T5 D-7/K'Tinga? Anybody else put some up?
Since booker9172's post states that I must admit that it's cool, I shall not explain why a ship that is smaller than a Miranda and only slightly larger than a Vor'cha's warp nacelles and only carried a crew of 400 in the Original Series and is already misplaced on T3 doesn't make sense with these stats at all and would be far better represented as a very heavy Raptor...;)
See you're thinking in TOS terms. That's something you shouldn't do. The ship class has been upgraded over the years. Lets see what is said about it:
"The K't'inga-class cruiser was one of the most advanced and versatile warships in the Klingon Imperial Fleet, more than capable of facing an Excelsior-class cruiser in a one-on-one confrontation. (VOY: "Flashback") "
"The outboard plan of the K't'inga design incorporated the same basic shape and classic design lineage dating back over one hundred years to the D5 class battle cruiser. (ENT: "Marauders", et al.) The K't'inga-cruiser was a direct offshoot in design-lineage from the venerable D7 class battle cruiser introduced sometime prior to 2267. (TOS: "Errand of Mercy", et al.) "
See the problem is that every class will want the ship for themselves, but we have to be realistic. Every BoP is a tactical class, almost every carrier is science class. Cruisers however, were the bulk of the fleet. As the years progressed, the KDF updated the D7/K't'inga class ship as needed. What I put down was an update, a new version of it (thats why I used the X, seeing how that designation has not yet been used for that class). Yes the Negh'Var is a battle cruiser, however it is always good to have different types of cruisers available.
Why make it another raptor when it is designated a cruiser. We need the staple of the KDF in our General ranks. That's what I'm saying. Oh and well I do "Admit" that I hope you find it cool
See you're thinking in TOS terms.
That's something you shouldn't do. The ship class has been upgraded over the years.
There has never been an upgrade on any ship I know of that magically doubles, or in this case even triples the amount of crew on a ship.
The real reason for the 800 crew in STO is an entirely different one:
It is based on faulty specs given in the DS9 Technical Manual that list the K't'inga at 350 meters as opposed to the 216 it actually has and extrapolates a crew of 800 based on this.
It has nothing to do with an upgrade, it is simply and error.
Also upgrades don't change the ship itself, they change what's inside.
Otherwise the ship would actually look different, in which case the ship would have needed to be taken apart and put back together again to change it's pysical arrangement.
Historically ships like the Japanses Battlecruiser/Fast Battleship Kongo was taken apart in such a manner and you could actually see the difference...and the upgrade took longer to perforn than it did to build a new ship.
This a clearly not the case with the K't'inga which looks like it did in Star Trek 1.
And we have seen very clearly in episodes like DS9's "Way of the Warrior" what this resultes in:
The K't'inga is the only ship in Star Trek's history that a Photon Torpedo passed thought without detonating.
That should tell you something about how effetive its hull construction is when it faces modern weapons.
Pretty much the same effect we've seen in "In a Mirror Darkly", equally 100 years of thechnological evolution between ships.
It does not mean that the K't'inga's hull is too thin, it simply means that it would be based on construction methods and materials of the 23rd, not the 24th or 25th century.
It would not hold up as a damage-soaker like the Vor'cha or the Negh'var that function is such in STO.
"The K't'inga-class cruiser was one of the most advanced and versatile warships in the Klingon Imperial Fleet, more than capable of facing an Excelsior-class cruiser in a one-on-one confrontation. (VOY: "Flashback") "
I expected you to bring up this very sentence since this statement from Memory Alpha is always brought up.
It is based on the fact that two ships stood in front of each other, nothing else.
They never engaged one another and the only reason Sulu turned back was because he did not want to spark a war.
And that is based on the assumption this engagement ever took place, which is questionable since it supposedly took place two weeks after the Praxis incident wheras the events about Kirk's and McCoy's capture took place two months after Praxis exploded.
Also Valtane supposedly died in the incident but in the battle above Khitomer he was alive.
So this while incident it questionable anyway.
Also facing says nothing about the ability to defeat someone.
This theory has some very large holes in it:
We've seen how crappy a K't'inga's shields are opposed to those of the Constitution class in Star Trek 1.
One of those blue plasma balls could entirely annihilate a K't'inga while a Constitution could shrug it off with about 30% shields intact.
And we've seen that the Excelsior has vastly superior shields compared to the Constitution Refit in Star Trek 6 where Chang's BoP could cause enough damage throught the Enterprise's shields to cause large black spots on the hull
So how is the K't'inga supposed to counter the Excelsior's defensive capabilites?
Is a K't'inga supposed to have so much firepower that it could overkill itself 15 times over with its first salvoe?
Then why did the three K't'ingas in the Kobayashi Maru test not wipe out the Enterprise in the first 0.00000001 seconds of the encounter?
"The outboard plan of the K't'inga design incorporated the same basic shape and classic design lineage dating back over one hundred years to the D5 class battle cruiser. (ENT: "Marauders", et al.) The K't'inga-cruiser was a direct offshoot in design-lineage from the venerable D7 class battle cruiser introduced sometime prior to 2267. (TOS: "Errand of Mercy", et al.) "
Also we've seen how "effective" the D7 was against a TOS Constitution.
In "Errand of Mercy" one of them surprised the Enterprise, which simply wiped it off the map in a mtter of seconds.
Later in the Episode 8 D7's opened fire on the Enterprise and they did not manage wipe her out either despiter the vastly larger numbers.
In the "Elaan of Troyus" a D7 was unable to destroy the Enterprise through several attack runs even though she was only on Impulse power.
When the Enterprise returned fire with 4 Photons, the D7 had one downed shields, one damaged shield and limped back unable to continue the fight.
So what is a D7's supposed advantage when it can neither defeat a Constitution during a suprise attack, nor survive retaliation from the enemy it surprised?
I appearently has a somewhat weak hull otherwise it would not blow up so quickly or become crippled after less than a handful of torpedoes.
And why is the next version which still has the crappy shields I mentioned supposedly capable of engaging an Excelsior?
See the problem is that every class will want the ship for themselves, but we have to be realistic. Every BoP is a tactical class, almost every carrier is science class. Cruisers however, were the bulk of the fleet. As the years progressed, the KDF updated the D7/K't'inga class ship as needed. What I put down was an update, a new version of it (thats why I used the X, seeing how that designation has not yet been used for that class). Yes the Negh'Var is a battle cruiser, however it is always good to have different types of cruisers available.
The reason why if makes more sense as something like a Saptor is because it's in the same size category.
The T2 Raptor is actually larger than the K't'inga (the STO Raptor looks like the one from Enterprise, but is actually over 100 meters longer).
So why would a ship that is so ancient, is so small have more hull, so much more crew and more weapons?
Just because we need more ships doesn't mean the we should take a ship and put it into a category that still needs some more ships.
That's that same "logic" some people use to place the Vesta into the escort category:
They say "We need more escorts, let's make the Vesta an escort!"
We should not base upgrade concepts on what ship category is underrepresented, we should make upgrades based on what kind of upgrade makes sense for a ship.
My counterprosal would be, in additiona to the torpedo-ship I designed and posted in this thread, the K'Vort class battlecruiser that first appaeared in TNG and was also referenced in DS9 "Penumbra"
Why make it another raptor when it is designated a cruiser. We need the staple of the KDF in our General ranks. That's what I'm saying.
It was a cruiser 150 years before.
It's tiny and its hull is outdated.
So how is it supposed to have the hull strength that would warrant the hitpoints you want to give it?
Given the discussions I've had about this in the past I guess something like this:
"It's an upgrade so it has improved structural integrity fields"
I which case I'd like to point out that a larger ship like the Vor'cha would use similar modern intergrity generators on a larger and stronger hull, so how come the K't'inga is supposed to have an equally strong hull integrity despite a much smaller frame built from 150 year old alloys?
So due to its size it would be easier to improve the impulse engines and thrusters and make her a Raptor because as a cruiser she's horribly misplaced.
This would also follow the same pattern we've seen in DS9 where the K't'inga in "Rules of Engagement" has rather nimble and turned quickly towards the Defiant, it was not a lumbering cruiser.
When the hull does not allow it to take much damage, make it so maneuverable it can't get hit.:p
I want the K't'inga at T5 at least as much as you do, but I don't want Cryptic to repeat the bogus refit madness they already did with the Excelsior but I presume that's exactly what they'll do, so you'll get the ship you want soon enough.
It comes down to this:
You're proposing to upgrade a Sherman or Panzer 4 to perform exactly the same way as an Ambrams of Leopard 2.
The latter two are decades younger, larger, heavier, built from new materials and have vastly better firepower and yet a mystical upgrade is supposed to do the trick.
Just trying to keep all the creative juices flowing on new KDF vessel ideas. Very heavy Raptor, eh? SOunds good to me. SO whats has been the offered stats of a T5 D-7/K'Tinga? Anybody else put some up?
HMM, I dug up one of my rather old...really really old ideas in this direction:
These stats are somewhat outdated since last year.
But I guess when you increase the hitpoints from that proposal to something *EDIT a little bit closer to 30000* it should work again.
Wow mister_dee, now that is a novel lengthed response. Thank you for the in-depth response, it made for some great reading and I enjoyed it immensely. I never said the excelsior class and K't'inga class ship fought, I just quoted a comment. And upgrades do change the ship. New armor, new shields, they do tend to make a ship tougher, and they can make the ship bigger and stronger (just like when they use armor to reinforce cars for presidents and such) - remember the pope-mobile! LOL. Also, the KDF do tend to keep the same basic design/shape to their ships, so why wouldn't they make a newer, updated version of the D7/K't'inga, which is what my idea is.
In Star Trek The Motion Picture, the new Enterprise refit had gone through many many months of refits and brand new upgrades, so of course their shields would be better then a battle worn/used D7 cruiser. As for Star Trek VI, there do appear to be some mistakes in filming. During the editing of the film, it looks like some of the frames were put back in the wrong order. If you watch closely, you will see that damage marks appear on the ship hull even before they were shot in that spot and that a lot of the damage does not line up properly (but I did love the film). Chang's ship was a prototype with newer, stronger, better weapons then a normal ship. Also, the Excelsior was a newer ship, so naturally it could take more damage than a constitution class.
The Kobayashi Maru test is just that, a test. It wouldn't be much of one if the klingon ships blew you up before Starfleet could see how you would react to the "no win" scenario.
The name of the show was Star Trek and Kirk, Spock, McCoy, the ship and the crew were the heroes, so you could not have the heroes get destroyed by one ship or even 3 ships. They always had to win. If the name of the show was "The Empire" or something like it, then one D7 would have been able to handle 3 constitution class ships with ease. That's just TV for you.
We should not base upgrade concepts on what ship category is underrepresented, we should make upgrades based on what kind of upgrade makes sense for a ship.
True, and the D7/K't'inga class was always a cruiser. Therefore, the new, updated version of it should be a cruiser too. It would make sense that they would make a bigger better version of a ship that has worked so well for them for so many many years.
Better an optimist than a pessimist. That's why I am hoping that you're right and that Cryptic does listen to us and they give us another cruiser class ship for KDF Generals, because like I said, we do need another one. We have enough tactical ships. We need another engineers battle cruiser with full stats that completely match some of the feds ships ( I know the ones we have do come very close, but I'm picky).
Edit: mister_dee, I just saw your post and link. Its a nice ship design, well done. However, I do feel that the K't'inga class retro should be a cruiser like its always been.
These stats are somewhat outdated since last year.
But I guess when you increase the hitpoints from that proposal to something *EDIT a little bit closer to 30000* it should work again.
Shouldn't take much updating, if any, looks good to me.
The only addition I would suggest is a special power of "Heavy Photon Torpedo volley". Basically a three shot heavy similiar to the NPC Romulans.
Shouldn't take much updating, if any, looks good to me.
The only addition I would suggest is a special power of "Heavy Photon Torpedo volley". Basically a three shot heavy similiar to the NPC Romulans.
Thank you, I was actually referring primarily to the hullpoints.
As I recall between my original post and now, the Raptor had a buff to its hitpoints and I used the Negh'var and the T5 Raptor as a basis for this ship since ther was not T5 Vor'cha at that time.
But since the Vor'cha retrofit has "only" 30,000 and a K't'inga should IMO have less than a ship ove 18 times its mass (120,000 vs. 2,238,000 according to the "Starship Spotter") the current value should indeed suffice.
A heavy torpedo would indeed be interesting, especiall since the K't'inga has a very large torpedo launcher, two to three decks high.
In DS9 "Honor Among Thieves" we see a Disruptor Rifle fire with a similar red beam effect as opposed to the blue pulses we're familiar with and the Disruptor Pustols in Star Trek 6 fired something similar as well.
So my idea:
Special weapon (console based) "Fusion Beam"
It draws fusion reactant directly from the Impulse Reactors (basically hydrogen fusion reactors) and injects it into the spherical forward torpedo launcher where it is contained in a "Photon Forcefield" similar to the one that encases a launched torpedo.
When the Fusion Beam is released, it remains encased, focused and compressed in the "Photon Forcefield" which gives the beam the same red appearance as the colour of the torpedo launcher.
Special function in adiiton to some nasty damage at close range could be that is does extra damage to shields, or since we already have conventional weapons that can do that it kills shield recharge rate, "freezing it".
In DS9 "Honor Among Thieves" we see a Disruptor Rifle fire with a similar red beam effect as opposed to the blue pulses we're familiar with and the Disruptor Pustols in Star Trek 6 fired something similar as well.
So my idea:
Special weapon (console based) "Fusion Beam"
It draws fusion reactant directly from the Impulse Reactors (basically hydrogen fusion reactors) and injects it into the spherical forward torpedo launcher where it is contained in a "Photon Forcefield" similar to the one that encases a launched torpedo.
When the Fusion Beam is released, it remains encased, focused and compressed in the "Photon Forcefield" which gives the beam the same red appearance as the colour of the torpedo launcher.
Special function in adiiton to some nasty damage at close range could be that is does extra damage to shields, or since we already have conventional weapons that can do that it kills shield recharge rate, "freezing it".
Just a few ideas.
The KDF version of a fusion lance? Sounds interesting.
So we have at least two different special weapons for the K't'inga: the giant Photons and the red mystery beam.
Sounds somewhat unfair: two for the K't'inga, not enough for all the others.
Maybe we should come up with a few more, but most of the ones that come to my mind are actually..MORE TORPS!:)
The K'v'ort in "Redemption" fired ann odd torpedo that looked unlike a Photon and also had some kind of "scattering effect" on Gowron's ship that was different from the "glowing bubble" effect the disruptors impacts caused. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JL8JtBZcSY
The Negh'var had the familiar giant green blobs (that might also have been odd-shaped disruptors),
Sadly those may be heavy torps, as a disruptor beam is clearly inview above the one on the rightside of the picture. Maybe plamsa torps? Or just a poorly colored Photon torp?
The K'v'ort in "Redemption" fired ann odd torpedo that looked unlike a Photon and also had some kind of "scattering effect" on Gowron's ship that was different from the "glowing bubble" effect the disruptors impacts caused. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JL8JtBZcSY
Now that may be a potential new ability. A torpedo that only does damage to an enemy's shields.
Sadly those may be heavy torps, as a disruptor beam is clearly inview above the one on the rightside of the picture. Maybe plamsa torps? Or just a poorly colored Photon torp?
Well, green Photons are generally nothing new by that point in Star Trek.
The BoP in Star Trek 7 had them, the BoPs in the Mirror Universe had them (along with an interesting launch rate, I might add)
(look at counter 20 seconds) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5Jw-uYTohA&feature=related
It is interesting that you say Plasmas because the "Starships" supplement for the Decipher RPG that I previously mentioned states those are indeed plasmas.
But that's still less-than soft-canon.:)
Assuming they were indeed something like Plasma Torpedoes, they would probably be more akin to the ones we saw in TOS.
Those were pretty much charges of plasma in a forcefield while the ones we saw on Romulan ships in TNG and DS9 were solid-cased torpedoes that probably simply have a plasma charge instead of a conventional warhead.
In DS9 "Shadows and Symbols" the Romulans stockpiled Plasma Torpedoes, which means they cannot simply have been plasma in a forcefield any longer.
Or what if they're the Klingon version of a Tricobalt device?
I mean when the colour of the launched torpedo does not really depend on the type of torpedo but on the launcher, it could be something similar.
"Dual Tricobalt Launcher: Stuns you till you start to gather dust":D
Well, green Photons are generally nothing new by that point in Star Trek.
Possibly the "green" photons could have a differing set of game stats than the "red" ones to reflect thier parallel development using different technologies?
Or what if they're the Klingon version of a Tricobalt device?
More stun, less damage?
maybe, but the stun factor will never pass muster I would think.
Unless it just stuns shields.......
Hmm, that's what makes me doubt my creativity, the Magnetic Pulse Weapon I proposed for the Torpedo Cruiser can do that as well.
It would not be the first time a military has created weapons with overlapping usage.
Possibly the "green" photons could have a differing set of game stats than the "red" ones to reflect thier parallel development using different technologies?
I remember that something similar was discussed in another thread a few months back.
The Cardassians would face a similar issue with their torpedoes that were also not red.
Actually the only time we saw Cardassians fire some kind of torpedo it was purple.
That was when they were still using purple beam effects so...
Anyway an idea was that there would be different types of Photons with different properties
that would have different colours.
Possibly all three would have the same DPS but different rates of fire.
More stun, less damage?
maybe, but the stun factor will never pass muster I would think.
Unless it just stuns shields.......
It would not be the first time a military has created weapons with overlapping usage.
Yep, but given the lance we discussed, and now the idea of another pair of anti shield torpedoes (the one from the Negh'var and the one from the K'vort) is seems we're coming up with variations of the same over and over: we seem to dislike shields:)
theory crafting aside i think we are going into the realms of stuff we would want to see 7 months down the line via special types of ships. maybe we should look more into the short term.
instead of us asking for something that would take up immense amount of man hours to implement into the game myself i would be much happier cryptic as a shot in the arm to kdf side to pull up the models from some of our factions races npc ships and drag drop them into the game for us.
they have already stated that they are wanting to change the skill trees so we have ground and space trees im semi hoping that they will also clean up the ship catagorys within the space trees, as it stands the ships espec at top end have a tree all to themselves and i think this is wrong as it bottlenecks a player into 1 ship at top end to get the best bonus from skill points spent. what would be better is 3 branches.
that would mean that a top end player can fly dif models of ships with no negative effect. ontop of this adding model skins to base model of ships through the tiers would be easier even if it means copying the base stats of the federation varient of the ship for that tier as a base.
For me personally it depends whether we'll ever get the cruiser-sized BoPs from TNG and whether they'll be cruisers or not.
Anyway since we have come up with two special skills for the K't'inga so far my proposal would be to give one to the K't'inga and one to the Raptors
-he Raptor gets the heavy torpedoes with a larger area of effect
- the fusion beam/lance goes to the K't'inga since it's more likely to have the energy reserves required to power such a weapon
-the anti-shield torpedo goes to the missing K'vort
It really bugs me that the K'vorts were mentioned in "The Path to 2409" only to not appear in the game.:mad:
The BoP already has a version with a special function so I don't think there is too much need for another right now.
I'm gonna make a list with a basic idea of what I would like to see.
T5 K'Vort (BoP) (dang...this ship sounds fun!)
Hull: 32,000
Turn: 14
Crew: 400
Weapon: 4/3
Cm: Uni
LtCm: Uni
Lt: Uni
Lt: Uni
Eng: 3
Sci: 3
Tac: 3 Special: Battle Cloak
T5 D7/K't'inga (Cruiser)
Hull: 34,000
Turn: 11
Crew: 750
Weapon: 4/4
Cm: Tac
LtCm: Eng
Lt: Sci
Lt: Eng
En: Tac
Eng: 3
Sci: 2
Tac: 4 Special 1: Magnetic Pulse Torpedo (3 second stun and light hull dmg with 1min cooldown. Can be shot down but is twice as fast as Tri) Special 2: Cloak
T5 Orion Interceptor (Escort)
Hull: 30,000
Turn: 17
Crew: 50
Weapon: 4/3
Cm: Tac
LtCm: Sci
Lt: Sci
Lt: Eng
En: Tac
Eng: 2
Sci: 3
Tac: 4 Special 1: Shanghai (Requires 5 sec targeted channel in 45º arc. End result: 40% crew stealing debuff with a 1min duration. For each crew member Shanghaied you receive 1 EC. 3min cooldown and channel can be broken with Sci Team) Special 2: Pilage (will give 1 random resource. 3min cooldown)
T5 Lethean Violator (Science) (I picture this thing being small, sleek, black, pointed and with small forward pointed spikes)
Hull: 27,000
Turn: 15
Crew: 150
Weapon: 3/2
Cm: Sci
Cm: Sci (yep 2 Cm Sci)
Lt: Tac
Lt: Eng
Eng: 4
Sci: 4
Tac: 1 Special 1: Telepathic Attack (Causes a 3 sec delay to all movements and abilities for 10 sec. If you turn left, it takes 3 sec to respond, if you RSP, it takes 3 sec to engage. 3 min cooldown) Special 2: Cloak
T5 Hybrid Ship
Not sure on stats or specials...but I would love to see a ship with visually mixed technology (done well) and a mix of unique specials. Perhaps a ship with focus on damage over time?
This is a basic idea of what I would love to see. I will be editing and tweaking stats. Maybe even add another ship or two.
The Klingon Bird of Prey, as it is most commonly known, is fast replacing the venerable D-7 Klolode class battlecruiser as the most recognizable starship in the Klingon fleet. Its origins are Romulan; however, its implementation is uniquely Klingon.
The Klingons obtained their original Bird of Prey under the terms of the Treaty of Smarba in 2262 by which they also obtained cloaking device technology. This part of the treaty amounted to a ship swap, whereby a dozen older D-6 battlecruisers were traded for just one of the Romulans new S-11 frigates stripped of its plasma torpedo weaponry but complete with cloaking device. The Klingons quickly copied the design and made a number of improvements, such as a superior warp engine, use of a photon torpedo launcher in place of the missing plasma weapon, heavier wing weaponry, and improved shielding. This was the original D-11 Brel class Bird of Prey. This proved so successful and popular with all of the various Klingon Houses that within the decade an upsized cruiser version was produced. This was the D-12 Kvort class Bird-of-Prey.
At present the Birds of Prey are the only Klingon capital ships capable of planetary landings. This was part of their original Romulan design. For this their wings actually fold up for atmospheric operations. In normal flight the wings are straight to maximize its cruising capabilities. On the attack the wings are canted downward in order to give its wing-mounted disruptor cannon a maximum field of fire.
Both the D-11 and D-12 mount the same disruptor armament despite their differences in size. The D-12 has heavier disruptor cannon, though, and adds an extra photon torpedo launcher aft.
D7 Klolode:
First Sighted: 2262
The Klolode class battlecruiser is essentially the Raxor class with most of its deficiencies addressed. A modified Julkar class Drell-type hull, with its increased armament, replaced the Raxors less able one. This small change gave the design the added offensive and defensive armament that it lacked before. More powerful engines helped to compensate for, but not completely address, the Raxors limited side and rear shielding. The end result was a Klingon battlecruiser design that was essentially a match for Star Fleets Class I heavy cruiser.
The D-7 Klolode class battlecruiser is probably the most recognizable Klingon starship and certainly the most talked about. While it has never seen fleet action insofar as is known, individual D-7s and D-7 squadrons have frequently tangled with the best of Star Fleet in numerous border incidents. Most Star Fleet commanders have developed a healthy respect for it, which has only served to enhance its reputation. Small wonder then that it is still seen as the unofficial symbol of the Empires might despite a superior successor (the D-8 Ktinga class).
Some 35-60 Klolode class battlecruisers are believed to have been built, with a handful sold to the Romulans starting in 2264. A limited shielding refit was first noticed in 2263. None have been upgraded beyond this point. The Klolode was effectively replaced by the Ktinga on the Klingon starship production schedule. Many now serve as test beds for various weapons technologies, such as stasis field generators and the Klingon version of photon torpedoes. Some have even undergone a carrier conversion similar to that of the D-6. Most D-7s currently serve as operational support vessels, assisting their successor D-8s on various missions for the glory of the Empire.
Unfortunately MD is quite right in that Cryptic has niether the time, monies or resources I would think to gather such pre-liscenced ideas under its name.
Hence I say we KDF need to start offering up designs of our own that are both reasonable and within the ideaology of the empire's thinking on war.
Unfortunately we already have a well stocked stable so to speak so such ideas may need to flow from the Nuasicians, Gorn and Orions as well.
Hey buddy ..
As soon as I finish the "science" vessel for ya I'll take a look at another project. Kinda narrow down the area you would like for me to review. I'm not the greatest with Klingon designs .. BUT as much as I love to mess with modeling I'll take a shot at it.
BTW... the Dev team should not have a problem with brain storming ! That's all my stuff is for .. just for "ideas" that we think will work. After that the Dev team and the artists (who are far better than I am) can do their own thing (based on suggestions and input found here).
(I hope that makes sense)
As long as it works for everyone ! That's the main thing !
Comments
Wow great looking ship! If you add a ton of small windows this could be a huge carrier sized Dreadnought!
If you don't mind...I would love to come up with an idea for it.
Dreadnought (needs a name)
What this ship lacks in advanced science technology it makes up for in extreme durability. This ship was designed for planetary bombardment and occupation. While using the frame of the Vo'Quv, that's about as close as it gets in relation with each other. Hangars have been replaced with barracks, larger engines and large transporter bays for fast troop deployment.
Ship Stats
Hull: 41,000
Turn: 8
Crew: 5,000
Weapon: 4/4
Inertia: 15
BO Layout
Cm. Tac
LtCm. Eng.
Lt. Tac.
Lt. Eng
En. Uni
Console
4 Eng
1 Sci
4 Tac
Special Abilities
Troop Deployment (tractors a ship and transports large amounts of troops to targeted ship. Random systems failure, large crew debuff and a chance for ships weapons to randomly fire at friendly targets. Has a 3 min cooldown. Polarize Hull breaks tractor and Tactical Team prevents debuff depending on level of ability)
Orbital Bombardment (primarily used to attack structures, this massive cannon can be used to attack a ship if directly beneath the Dreadnought. 3 min cooldown)
Cloak (standard cloak but due to it's immense size, the power needed to cloak this ship requires auxiliary power to be over 65)
From another thread.
Since booker9172's post states that I must admit that it's cool, I shall not explain why a ship that is smaller than a Miranda and only slightly larger than a Vor'cha's warp nacelles and only carried a crew of 400 in the Original Series and is already misplaced on T3 doesn't make sense with these stats at all and would be far better represented as a very heavy Raptor...;)
Just trying to keep all the creative juices flowing on new KDF vessel ideas. Very heavy Raptor, eh? SOunds good to me. SO whats has been the offered stats of a T5 D-7/K'Tinga? Anybody else put some up?
See you're thinking in TOS terms. That's something you shouldn't do. The ship class has been upgraded over the years. Lets see what is said about it:
"The K't'inga-class cruiser was one of the most advanced and versatile warships in the Klingon Imperial Fleet, more than capable of facing an Excelsior-class cruiser in a one-on-one confrontation. (VOY: "Flashback") "
"The outboard plan of the K't'inga design incorporated the same basic shape and classic design lineage dating back over one hundred years to the D5 class battle cruiser. (ENT: "Marauders", et al.) The K't'inga-cruiser was a direct offshoot in design-lineage from the venerable D7 class battle cruiser introduced sometime prior to 2267. (TOS: "Errand of Mercy", et al.) "
See the problem is that every class will want the ship for themselves, but we have to be realistic. Every BoP is a tactical class, almost every carrier is science class. Cruisers however, were the bulk of the fleet. As the years progressed, the KDF updated the D7/K't'inga class ship as needed. What I put down was an update, a new version of it (thats why I used the X, seeing how that designation has not yet been used for that class). Yes the Negh'Var is a battle cruiser, however it is always good to have different types of cruisers available.
Why make it another raptor when it is designated a cruiser. We need the staple of the KDF in our General ranks. That's what I'm saying. Oh and well I do "Admit" that I hope you find it cool
There has never been an upgrade on any ship I know of that magically doubles, or in this case even triples the amount of crew on a ship.
The real reason for the 800 crew in STO is an entirely different one:
It is based on faulty specs given in the DS9 Technical Manual that list the K't'inga at 350 meters as opposed to the 216 it actually has and extrapolates a crew of 800 based on this.
It has nothing to do with an upgrade, it is simply and error.
Also upgrades don't change the ship itself, they change what's inside.
Otherwise the ship would actually look different, in which case the ship would have needed to be taken apart and put back together again to change it's pysical arrangement.
Historically ships like the Japanses Battlecruiser/Fast Battleship Kongo was taken apart in such a manner and you could actually see the difference...and the upgrade took longer to perforn than it did to build a new ship.
This a clearly not the case with the K't'inga which looks like it did in Star Trek 1.
And we have seen very clearly in episodes like DS9's "Way of the Warrior" what this resultes in:
The K't'inga is the only ship in Star Trek's history that a Photon Torpedo passed thought without detonating.
That should tell you something about how effetive its hull construction is when it faces modern weapons.
Pretty much the same effect we've seen in "In a Mirror Darkly", equally 100 years of thechnological evolution between ships.
It does not mean that the K't'inga's hull is too thin, it simply means that it would be based on construction methods and materials of the 23rd, not the 24th or 25th century.
It would not hold up as a damage-soaker like the Vor'cha or the Negh'var that function is such in STO.
I expected you to bring up this very sentence since this statement from Memory Alpha is always brought up.
It is based on the fact that two ships stood in front of each other, nothing else.
They never engaged one another and the only reason Sulu turned back was because he did not want to spark a war.
And that is based on the assumption this engagement ever took place, which is questionable since it supposedly took place two weeks after the Praxis incident wheras the events about Kirk's and McCoy's capture took place two months after Praxis exploded.
Also Valtane supposedly died in the incident but in the battle above Khitomer he was alive.
So this while incident it questionable anyway.
Also facing says nothing about the ability to defeat someone.
This theory has some very large holes in it:
We've seen how crappy a K't'inga's shields are opposed to those of the Constitution class in Star Trek 1.
One of those blue plasma balls could entirely annihilate a K't'inga while a Constitution could shrug it off with about 30% shields intact.
And we've seen that the Excelsior has vastly superior shields compared to the Constitution Refit in Star Trek 6 where Chang's BoP could cause enough damage throught the Enterprise's shields to cause large black spots on the hull
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2346/enttorp1.png
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4411/enttorp2.png
while the Excelsior's shields were so strong that the torpedo made the ship shudder but there were no scorchmarks on the hull.
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/9692/extorp1.png
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/114/extorp2.png
http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/8050/extorp3.png
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/2659/extorp4.png
http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/8251/extorp5.png
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/4745/extorp6.png
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/7209/extorp7.png
So how is the K't'inga supposed to counter the Excelsior's defensive capabilites?
Is a K't'inga supposed to have so much firepower that it could overkill itself 15 times over with its first salvoe?
Then why did the three K't'ingas in the Kobayashi Maru test not wipe out the Enterprise in the first 0.00000001 seconds of the encounter?
Also we've seen how "effective" the D7 was against a TOS Constitution.
In "Errand of Mercy" one of them surprised the Enterprise, which simply wiped it off the map in a mtter of seconds.
Later in the Episode 8 D7's opened fire on the Enterprise and they did not manage wipe her out either despiter the vastly larger numbers.
In the "Elaan of Troyus" a D7 was unable to destroy the Enterprise through several attack runs even though she was only on Impulse power.
When the Enterprise returned fire with 4 Photons, the D7 had one downed shields, one damaged shield and limped back unable to continue the fight.
So what is a D7's supposed advantage when it can neither defeat a Constitution during a suprise attack, nor survive retaliation from the enemy it surprised?
I appearently has a somewhat weak hull otherwise it would not blow up so quickly or become crippled after less than a handful of torpedoes.
And why is the next version which still has the crappy shields I mentioned supposedly capable of engaging an Excelsior?
The reason why if makes more sense as something like a Saptor is because it's in the same size category.
The T2 Raptor is actually larger than the K't'inga (the STO Raptor looks like the one from Enterprise, but is actually over 100 meters longer).
So why would a ship that is so ancient, is so small have more hull, so much more crew and more weapons?
Just because we need more ships doesn't mean the we should take a ship and put it into a category that still needs some more ships.
That's that same "logic" some people use to place the Vesta into the escort category:
They say "We need more escorts, let's make the Vesta an escort!"
We should not base upgrade concepts on what ship category is underrepresented, we should make upgrades based on what kind of upgrade makes sense for a ship.
My counterprosal would be, in additiona to the torpedo-ship I designed and posted in this thread, the K'Vort class battlecruiser that first appaeared in TNG and was also referenced in DS9 "Penumbra"
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070106192644/memoryalpha/en/images/8/82/IKS_Koraga_display.jpg
and is therefore not just a oddity from an alternate universe.
It was a cruiser 150 years before.
It's tiny and its hull is outdated.
So how is it supposed to have the hull strength that would warrant the hitpoints you want to give it?
Given the discussions I've had about this in the past I guess something like this:
"It's an upgrade so it has improved structural integrity fields"
I which case I'd like to point out that a larger ship like the Vor'cha would use similar modern intergrity generators on a larger and stronger hull, so how come the K't'inga is supposed to have an equally strong hull integrity despite a much smaller frame built from 150 year old alloys?
So due to its size it would be easier to improve the impulse engines and thrusters and make her a Raptor because as a cruiser she's horribly misplaced.
This would also follow the same pattern we've seen in DS9 where the K't'inga in "Rules of Engagement" has rather nimble and turned quickly towards the Defiant, it was not a lumbering cruiser.
When the hull does not allow it to take much damage, make it so maneuverable it can't get hit.:p
I want the K't'inga at T5 at least as much as you do, but I don't want Cryptic to repeat the bogus refit madness they already did with the Excelsior but I presume that's exactly what they'll do, so you'll get the ship you want soon enough.
It comes down to this:
You're proposing to upgrade a Sherman or Panzer 4 to perform exactly the same way as an Ambrams of Leopard 2.
The latter two are decades younger, larger, heavier, built from new materials and have vastly better firepower and yet a mystical upgrade is supposed to do the trick.
Well, optimism is something I like.
Even when we don't agree on the rest, this at least we can agree on.
HMM, I dug up one of my rather old...really really old ideas in this direction:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=2852324&postcount=34
These stats are somewhat outdated since last year.
But I guess when you increase the hitpoints from that proposal to something *EDIT a little bit closer to 30000* it should work again.
In Star Trek The Motion Picture, the new Enterprise refit had gone through many many months of refits and brand new upgrades, so of course their shields would be better then a battle worn/used D7 cruiser. As for Star Trek VI, there do appear to be some mistakes in filming. During the editing of the film, it looks like some of the frames were put back in the wrong order. If you watch closely, you will see that damage marks appear on the ship hull even before they were shot in that spot and that a lot of the damage does not line up properly (but I did love the film). Chang's ship was a prototype with newer, stronger, better weapons then a normal ship. Also, the Excelsior was a newer ship, so naturally it could take more damage than a constitution class.
The Kobayashi Maru test is just that, a test. It wouldn't be much of one if the klingon ships blew you up before Starfleet could see how you would react to the "no win" scenario.
The name of the show was Star Trek and Kirk, Spock, McCoy, the ship and the crew were the heroes, so you could not have the heroes get destroyed by one ship or even 3 ships. They always had to win. If the name of the show was "The Empire" or something like it, then one D7 would have been able to handle 3 constitution class ships with ease. That's just TV for you.
True, and the D7/K't'inga class was always a cruiser. Therefore, the new, updated version of it should be a cruiser too. It would make sense that they would make a bigger better version of a ship that has worked so well for them for so many many years.
Better an optimist than a pessimist. That's why I am hoping that you're right and that Cryptic does listen to us and they give us another cruiser class ship for KDF Generals, because like I said, we do need another one. We have enough tactical ships. We need another engineers battle cruiser with full stats that completely match some of the feds ships ( I know the ones we have do come very close, but I'm picky).
Edit: mister_dee, I just saw your post and link. Its a nice ship design, well done. However, I do feel that the K't'inga class retro should be a cruiser like its always been.
Shouldn't take much updating, if any, looks good to me.
The only addition I would suggest is a special power of "Heavy Photon Torpedo volley". Basically a three shot heavy similiar to the NPC Romulans.
Thank you, I was actually referring primarily to the hullpoints.
As I recall between my original post and now, the Raptor had a buff to its hitpoints and I used the Negh'var and the T5 Raptor as a basis for this ship since ther was not T5 Vor'cha at that time.
But since the Vor'cha retrofit has "only" 30,000 and a K't'inga should IMO have less than a ship ove 18 times its mass (120,000 vs. 2,238,000 according to the "Starship Spotter") the current value should indeed suffice.
A heavy torpedo would indeed be interesting, especiall since the K't'inga has a very large torpedo launcher, two to three decks high.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100518002948/memoryalpha/en/images/5/5f/IKS_Kronos_One.jpg
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090525062206/memoryalpha/en/images/a/a4/IKS_Amar_firing_forward_torpedo.jpg
Some concepts that are swirling around in my mind:
Heavy Photon, like we saw in Star Trek 1, pretty much what you said.
Special "Flak Torpedoes" especially useful against fighters, would make the K't'inga a more flexible "Escort Cruiser".
Something else entirely:
In DS9 the K't'ingas did not fire torpedoes from their launchers, but fired a mysterious red beam that might be some kind of disruptor.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070714214556/memoryalpha/en/images/7/7c/Ktingas_attack_ds9.jpg
In DS9 "Honor Among Thieves" we see a Disruptor Rifle fire with a similar red beam effect as opposed to the blue pulses we're familiar with and the Disruptor Pustols in Star Trek 6 fired something similar as well.
So my idea:
Special weapon (console based) "Fusion Beam"
It draws fusion reactant directly from the Impulse Reactors (basically hydrogen fusion reactors) and injects it into the spherical forward torpedo launcher where it is contained in a "Photon Forcefield" similar to the one that encases a launched torpedo.
When the Fusion Beam is released, it remains encased, focused and compressed in the "Photon Forcefield" which gives the beam the same red appearance as the colour of the torpedo launcher.
Special function in adiiton to some nasty damage at close range could be that is does extra damage to shields, or since we already have conventional weapons that can do that it kills shield recharge rate, "freezing it".
Just a few ideas.
Sounds somewhat unfair: two for the K't'inga, not enough for all the others.
Maybe we should come up with a few more, but most of the ones that come to my mind are actually..MORE TORPS!:)
The Negh'var had the familiar giant green blobs (that might also have been odd-shaped disruptors),
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:IKS_NeghVar_attack.jpg
The K'v'ort in "Redemption" fired ann odd torpedo that looked unlike a Photon and also had some kind of "scattering effect" on Gowron's ship that was different from the "glowing bubble" effect the disruptors impacts caused.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JL8JtBZcSY
Well, green Photons are generally nothing new by that point in Star Trek.
The BoP in Star Trek 7 had them, the BoPs in the Mirror Universe had them (along with an interesting launch rate, I might add)
(look at counter 20 seconds)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5Jw-uYTohA&feature=related
It is interesting that you say Plasmas because the "Starships" supplement for the Decipher RPG that I previously mentioned states those are indeed plasmas.
But that's still less-than soft-canon.:)
Assuming they were indeed something like Plasma Torpedoes, they would probably be more akin to the ones we saw in TOS.
Those were pretty much charges of plasma in a forcefield while the ones we saw on Romulan ships in TNG and DS9 were solid-cased torpedoes that probably simply have a plasma charge instead of a conventional warhead.
In DS9 "Shadows and Symbols" the Romulans stockpiled Plasma Torpedoes, which means they cannot simply have been plasma in a forcefield any longer.
Or what if they're the Klingon version of a Tricobalt device?
I mean when the colour of the launched torpedo does not really depend on the type of torpedo but on the launcher, it could be something similar.
"Dual Tricobalt Launcher: Stuns you till you start to gather dust":D
Hmm, that's what makes me doubt my creativity, the Magnetic Pulse Weapon I proposed for the Torpedo Cruiser can do that as well....
I remember that something similar was discussed in another thread a few months back.
The Cardassians would face a similar issue with their torpedoes that were also not red.
Actually the only time we saw Cardassians fire some kind of torpedo it was purple.
That was when they were still using purple beam effects so...
Anyway an idea was that there would be different types of Photons with different properties
that would have different colours.
Possibly all three would have the same DPS but different rates of fire.
Yep, but given the lance we discussed, and now the idea of another pair of anti shield torpedoes (the one from the Negh'var and the one from the K'vort) is seems we're coming up with variations of the same over and over: we seem to dislike shields:)
instead of us asking for something that would take up immense amount of man hours to implement into the game myself i would be much happier cryptic as a shot in the arm to kdf side to pull up the models from some of our factions races npc ships and drag drop them into the game for us.
they have already stated that they are wanting to change the skill trees so we have ground and space trees im semi hoping that they will also clean up the ship catagorys within the space trees, as it stands the ships espec at top end have a tree all to themselves and i think this is wrong as it bottlenecks a player into 1 ship at top end to get the best bonus from skill points spent. what would be better is 3 branches.
-escort - attack
-science - hybrids
-cruisers - tanks
that would mean that a top end player can fly dif models of ships with no negative effect. ontop of this adding model skins to base model of ships through the tiers would be easier even if it means copying the base stats of the federation varient of the ship for that tier as a base.
lets just focus on the actual special functions of the new Ships by thier respective roles
BOP, its a raider Hard hitting, but soft
Raptor hard hiting but not as soft as a BoP, but slower
Cruiser, tanker
Carrier, its a carrier
What special functions would suit a new ship in each of those classes. i like the anti Shield Torp idea, but that may be more raptor than BoP.
Anyway since we have come up with two special skills for the K't'inga so far my proposal would be to give one to the K't'inga and one to the Raptors
-he Raptor gets the heavy torpedoes with a larger area of effect
- the fusion beam/lance goes to the K't'inga since it's more likely to have the energy reserves required to power such a weapon
-the anti-shield torpedo goes to the missing K'vort
It really bugs me that the K'vorts were mentioned in "The Path to 2409" only to not appear in the game.:mad:
The BoP already has a version with a special function so I don't think there is too much need for another right now.
T5 K'Vort (BoP) (dang...this ship sounds fun!)
Hull: 32,000
Turn: 14
Crew: 400
Weapon: 4/3
Cm: Uni
LtCm: Uni
Lt: Uni
Lt: Uni
Eng: 3
Sci: 3
Tac: 3
Special: Battle Cloak
T5 D7/K't'inga (Cruiser)
Hull: 34,000
Turn: 11
Crew: 750
Weapon: 4/4
Cm: Tac
LtCm: Eng
Lt: Sci
Lt: Eng
En: Tac
Eng: 3
Sci: 2
Tac: 4
Special 1: Magnetic Pulse Torpedo (3 second stun and light hull dmg with 1min cooldown. Can be shot down but is twice as fast as Tri)
Special 2: Cloak
T5 Orion Interceptor (Escort)
Hull: 30,000
Turn: 17
Crew: 50
Weapon: 4/3
Cm: Tac
LtCm: Sci
Lt: Sci
Lt: Eng
En: Tac
Eng: 2
Sci: 3
Tac: 4
Special 1: Shanghai (Requires 5 sec targeted channel in 45º arc. End result: 40% crew stealing debuff with a 1min duration. For each crew member Shanghaied you receive 1 EC. 3min cooldown and channel can be broken with Sci Team)
Special 2: Pilage (will give 1 random resource. 3min cooldown)
T5 Lethean Violator (Science) (I picture this thing being small, sleek, black, pointed and with small forward pointed spikes)
Hull: 27,000
Turn: 15
Crew: 150
Weapon: 3/2
Cm: Sci
Cm: Sci (yep 2 Cm Sci)
Lt: Tac
Lt: Eng
Eng: 4
Sci: 4
Tac: 1
Special 1: Telepathic Attack (Causes a 3 sec delay to all movements and abilities for 10 sec. If you turn left, it takes 3 sec to respond, if you RSP, it takes 3 sec to engage. 3 min cooldown)
Special 2: Cloak
T5 Hybrid Ship
Not sure on stats or specials...but I would love to see a ship with visually mixed technology (done well) and a mix of unique specials. Perhaps a ship with focus on damage over time?
This is a basic idea of what I would love to see. I will be editing and tweaking stats. Maybe even add another ship or two.
First Sighted: 2272
The Klingon Bird of Prey, as it is most commonly known, is fast replacing the venerable D-7 Klolode class battlecruiser as the most recognizable starship in the Klingon fleet. Its origins are Romulan; however, its implementation is uniquely Klingon.
The Klingons obtained their original Bird of Prey under the terms of the Treaty of Smarba in 2262 by which they also obtained cloaking device technology. This part of the treaty amounted to a ship swap, whereby a dozen older D-6 battlecruisers were traded for just one of the Romulans new S-11 frigates stripped of its plasma torpedo weaponry but complete with cloaking device. The Klingons quickly copied the design and made a number of improvements, such as a superior warp engine, use of a photon torpedo launcher in place of the missing plasma weapon, heavier wing weaponry, and improved shielding. This was the original D-11 Brel class Bird of Prey. This proved so successful and popular with all of the various Klingon Houses that within the decade an upsized cruiser version was produced. This was the D-12 Kvort class Bird-of-Prey.
At present the Birds of Prey are the only Klingon capital ships capable of planetary landings. This was part of their original Romulan design. For this their wings actually fold up for atmospheric operations. In normal flight the wings are straight to maximize its cruising capabilities. On the attack the wings are canted downward in order to give its wing-mounted disruptor cannon a maximum field of fire.
Both the D-11 and D-12 mount the same disruptor armament despite their differences in size. The D-12 has heavier disruptor cannon, though, and adds an extra photon torpedo launcher aft.
D7 Klolode:
First Sighted: 2262
The Klolode class battlecruiser is essentially the Raxor class with most of its deficiencies addressed. A modified Julkar class Drell-type hull, with its increased armament, replaced the Raxors less able one. This small change gave the design the added offensive and defensive armament that it lacked before. More powerful engines helped to compensate for, but not completely address, the Raxors limited side and rear shielding. The end result was a Klingon battlecruiser design that was essentially a match for Star Fleets Class I heavy cruiser.
The D-7 Klolode class battlecruiser is probably the most recognizable Klingon starship and certainly the most talked about. While it has never seen fleet action insofar as is known, individual D-7s and D-7 squadrons have frequently tangled with the best of Star Fleet in numerous border incidents. Most Star Fleet commanders have developed a healthy respect for it, which has only served to enhance its reputation. Small wonder then that it is still seen as the unofficial symbol of the Empires might despite a superior successor (the D-8 Ktinga class).
Some 35-60 Klolode class battlecruisers are believed to have been built, with a handful sold to the Romulans starting in 2264. A limited shielding refit was first noticed in 2263. None have been upgraded beyond this point. The Klolode was effectively replaced by the Ktinga on the Klingon starship production schedule. Many now serve as test beds for various weapons technologies, such as stasis field generators and the Klingon version of photon torpedoes. Some have even undergone a carrier conversion similar to that of the D-6. Most D-7s currently serve as operational support vessels, assisting their successor D-8s on various missions for the glory of the Empire.
Very intriguing, can you supply a link so I may add it to my records?
A lot of my personal insights into the KDF vessels of the line come from here.
http://www.slideshare.net/rseriouz/star-trek-rpg-lug-spacedock-ship-recognition-manual-klingon-military-power-ships-2380
http://www.jh.kobarg.de/k7/timeline/FSC_VolA.pdf
Unfortunately I'm currently at a PC without PDF reader of any kind, can someone else confirm, please?
Confirmed!
Man there are a ton of Klingon ships in there!
Thanks!! I will enjoy it.
Hey buddy ..
As soon as I finish the "science" vessel for ya I'll take a look at another project. Kinda narrow down the area you would like for me to review. I'm not the greatest with Klingon designs .. BUT as much as I love to mess with modeling I'll take a shot at it.
BTW... the Dev team should not have a problem with brain storming ! That's all my stuff is for .. just for "ideas" that we think will work. After that the Dev team and the artists (who are far better than I am) can do their own thing (based on suggestions and input found here).
(I hope that makes sense)
As long as it works for everyone ! That's the main thing !