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http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=199839
Especially the ToQ vo' Hegh class Heavy Battleship.
What design stats do you think would fit it well?
The latter would be a big problem because aside from the canon boats, it's not possible to get ships that are fan-designed (unless it's specifically for a contest) not to mention copyrighted ships like the SUVWI'QEH from Klingon Academy which is still the intellectual property of Interplay.
Simply hiring folks and then putting their ships in the game is not possible, not with so much legal voodoo involved.
Hence I say we KDF need to start offering up designs of our own that are both reasonable and within the ideaology of the empire's thinking on war.
Unfortunately we already have a well stocked stable so to speak so such ideas may need to flow from the Nuasicians, Gorn and Orions as well.
It always takes time to get me into a proper state of mind since I don't try to think how I'd build a Gorn ship but how the Gorn would design a ship and I'll see if I can come up with some kind of destroyer design that doesn't look too much like the ships I'm making for the TOS mod.
And with a tiny bit of luck it won't be totally ignored like the last Gorn ships I proposed.
Keep in mind that the Novel written on STO "Needs of the Many" sheds alot of light on Gorn infrastructure and how they have speciliazed Gorn for different jobs/tasks. The baseball team they fielded was very interesting, not the slow Gorn of Kirks era.
I know, and their uniform were also quite cool.
What I'm not quite sure of is this:
The quick Gorn "Talons" from the novel were tech caste, which would probably reflect what principles the Varansus is based on.
The tough dude from "Arena" was a warrior, who appear to be rather slow.
Problem is that while the tech caste would probably have great influence on how a support ship would be designed what about some kind of destroyer design, would it not make sense that such a vessel would be created based on how the warriors think a ship should be designed?
And of course the usual question:
Based on what's said in the novel it seems that since members of the same caste have similar physical characteristics, would that not make most if not all warriors rather slow?
Which I think would be rather counterproductive, especially when you think about how a destroyer operates.
It's pretty much the antithesis to the Gorn warriors who are tough but not very quick.
Oh and I just noticed your PMs with the translations of you posts.
I guess they're nt really translations but rather the untranslated messages, but keeping in the spirit of things I'll call them translations.
Thank you, I must say sendng it all through a translator is really troublesome.
Depending on how the castes interact with each other and how much influence and social status they have there might be a liaison between the two or not. If the warrior caste is higher in the hierarchy, a design project could be nominally headed by a ranking officer who then inspects the final result and either is pleased or tells them to build something better (maybe in a not so nice way). If the technician caste is higher in the hierarchy, it could also be that the designers simply build what they think is best and give it to the warriors to use it to the best of their abilities.
Is that slowness referring to their bodies or their minds and reflexes? A ship crew doesn't need to move quick as long as they are able to think quick.
Or they actually rather do it like the Tau from 40k and have one caste for ground troops (slow/big/strong Gorn) and another as pilots (fast/nimble/weak Gorn).
In all honesty, I don't think it was smart of that novel's author to strengthen the idea that Gorn are slow (a characteristic based solely on costume budget limitations during TOS, then later explained as environmental conditions of that world having caused that particular Gorn's metabolism to slow down) after ENT has shown us a quick one thanks to CGI. :rolleyes:
Also the principle of Quanity and Redundancy ( for long life) over qaulity. Hence thier warp cores being weaker on average, but thier impulse tech is slighty better giving better comabt speeds. Add in the use of rendundant back-ups and yes while the KDF technolgy is historically back engineered from ancient Hur'q thus givng the Kl;ingon species a jumpstart iinto warp technology the evolved progeny is quite effective if not brutal in its nature.
Startrek's SFX budget is responsible for making it "effective" to keep B'rels and K'Tingas around. Real-world logic would suggest that at some point it's better to develop something new to use the new technology.
Not that STO cares much about that - see Excelsior and Galaxy Retrofit.
These ships exist in the game because people want it. I can just fine with that and willing to suspend my disbelief.
People want new Klingon vessels. I am fine with that. They should come.
On this point, no disagreement.
In addition I would ike to see more Gorn or Naussican designs, without the deathstar flipup
D5
D7
D12
K'Vort
K'Toch
Goroth's ship
and several variations of the Vor'Cha and Neg'Var
There is also an unknown class that was seen in DS9: "Sons of Mogh it used the same model as the Promellian battlecruiser from TNG: "Booby Trap".
Find your inner lizard
And these should be added as well overtime.
Has anybody tried to trow out some sample ideas for thier abilities and stats?
If the feds can offer ideas so can we.
Wear and tear on the vessels is high, hence one of the design philosophies of the IKN is quantity over quality at times. If something works- keep it- evolve it when needed - build more to allow for turn over.
Its the reason the Bird of Prey has been around so long. The KDF does not replace what works, though they will expand on it from time to time.
Let's just hope it won't turn into this green:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb87m8LofFU
Okay, I'm not going to quote pieces of what you and Valias said on the previous pace, because quite grankly getting what you both said in and not make it redundant of terribly messy seems rather impossible.
So when I was referring to "slow" I meant that in "Arena", during the fight with Kirk the Gorn appeared to lack "quick thinking", so I was referring to that.
It seemed that they were actually more creative beforehand during the fight on Cestus 3, not only detecting Spock's scans but turning his tricorder as a weapon.
Maybe that was not the doing of a Warrior, but of a scientist.
So the question is whether all warriors are supposed to be slow (which would be stupid) or whether it was only bad writing (the dull, strong alien beast) or has any basis in...anything.
If they are actually supposed to be like this it would mean that the commander of an escort-type ship might react slowly to a quickly evolving situation, which would be deadly.
We only know there are at least three castes: Technical, Warrior and Political. The STO novel indicates there are several more.
What those are is a mystery.
The same goes for what technological caste actually means: does it mean they are engineers, workers, scientists?
It's not really clear.
The same goes for why I thought about the reasons why the Warriors might not have had too much to do with the Varanus:
Are only warriors allowed to command a ship (the presumed-to-be warrior in "Arena" was the ship's captain) or are they only in command of warships; cruisers and escorts while support and auxilliary ships are commanded by those more suited to the ship's porpose, like for example science caste and technical caste?
It would also be remotely similar to the way the Minbari operate, even though in their caste the castes don't specialize in certain ships.
They have a similar number of (Sharlin) Warcruisers, (Tinashi) Frigates (Torotha) Assault Frigates etc. devided between each caste to maintain balance between the castes.
Maybe this is the case with the Gorn as well, even though in they way that since each caste controls certain key shiptypes, no caste would be able to wage war effectively (against each other or against an external threat) since there would be dangerous gaps in the fleet structure.
So the question here is who would come up with the intended specs for a futue ship?
Some kind of commite from each caste, or does each caste have designers of its own that then present their specs to the engineers/workers who then construct the ship?
These are some of the thoughts that come to my mind to get my inner Lizard to awaken.:)
Comments, thoughts, ideas, more questions anyone?
Not many will get that reference...a few, perhaps...
Pre-warp KDF sleeper ship? Sadly my mind is slow today.
Hardly...the B10 is from the Star Fleet Universe, a parallel universe to Star Trek.
It came to pass after the Animated Series and before the first movie and has diverged from Star Trek since that time.
Contents from one universe cannot be used by the other.
The only exception was Starfleet Command, which combined contents from both because Inerplay had the license for both at the same time.
Long story short, the B10 looks like this:
http://jgray-sfb.com/Miniatures/Klingons/klingonmini_files/image001.jpg
http://www.sfbnexus.com/Klingon/Size_Comparison_1.jpg
The "Stasis field", or more correctly the "Projected Stasis Field" is the system the Klingons used in the Animated series
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Projected_stasis_field
Ah, never seen the Animated series or played any ST computer games. I have seen a fair amount of humorous ST based TRIBBLE though. Very funny stuff becuase in the TOS versions the acting worked well to make it seem trekky.
When I saw stasis field, my mind went pre-warp KDF cryo-ship.
Too bad we can't use the B-10 though, first glance it looks like it would make a fun counter to the fed Typhoon class.
there was SFC 1, SFC2 and SFC2:Orion Pirates. I think it was 2000 SFC1 came out, maybe 2001, I forget now.
It was the best Tatical Trek-type game I've seen. Feds, Klingons, Romulans, Gorns, and many more. Smooth online play, both in PvP and PvE campaigns. It wasn't an MMO, but campaigns attracted enough in the day there was a wait to get on a 120 player server, and there were many servers up at once. There was a ladder PvP league as well as strategic campagns in the Dynaverse.
Victory was determined by more by player's skill in power, weapon, shield management and manuvering than the type of ship you had. It was very possible to beat a superior ship with good tactics and power management, and it happened often.
In later years, many player mods and skins were released, introducing new races and ships from StarFleet Battles and Star Trek. We had a B-10, but it never had Stasis Field generators.
It's number of players at a time online limits and it's online incompatability with Vista and WIN 7 have pretty much killed it over the past couple years, very sad. Only Win XP users can still play online, although single player works fine.
There are still a couple servers up, tho the days of huge campaigns involving 50 on a side at a time are long gone.
Many from KBF initially started STO, only to be disappointed in the content and gameplay and have since then decided not to continue to pay every month for it. Only those that have lifetime memberships are still occasionally lurking, well shall yet see what the future holds.
I doubt we'll ever see a SFB ship in STO, too much quibbling over you owns what and how much it's worth, I'm sure...
But the B-10 ruled in SFB!
With Stasis Fields functioning like they did in SFB for STO the Feds would cower and flee before it's might!
Of course, then there would be huge cries of "Nerf or we quitz!" and it would be reduced to a garbage scow in no time. :P
Ah...the Days of Glory past...
Along the way I noticed a few differences between the Feds & the Klinks as well.
I keep hearing about the lack of ships for the KDF. I, too, noticed the somewhat anemic ship selection for Klingons. However,earlier in this thread I read the most lucid comment about this issue: There are very few canon Klingon starship classes. After a cursory review I counted no more than 10 distinguishable classes in the whole of the television & film history of the Star Trek franchise.
I'd say Cryptic did a bang up job representing the ships and even gave us about (at last count) 11 more than there should be.
Additionally, I noticed a rather sparse PVE mission selection as well.
However, I've seen Star Trek before and something I noticed about Klingons is the fact that they seem to have little interest in fashion, aesthetics, exploration, science, or technology. In fact, they seem to serve little purpose in the Star Trek universe beyond playing the part of one of several antagonists and foils to Starfleet.
My question to the complainers is this: If you love Klingons & identify with them so deeply, why do you want "more costumes" (when it's quite clear Klingons do not play dress up), "more ships" (when it's quite clear Klingons are too busy drinking bloodwine, carrying out blood oaths, & defending their honor to bother designing more than 10 classes over a 200 year period), and "more PVE content" (when it's quite clear Klingons are not interested in exploring and no self-respecting Klingon would ever engage in espionage or more Diplomacy than is absolutely necessary)?
If you troll for such "improvements" to the KDF, you clearly do not understand who the Klingons are.
They are a supporting character, a bit part, a walk-on role in Star Trek. They add a rich and vibrant texture to the Star Trek universe but they are not the main focus of the overall story.
I'd say Cryptic portrayed them exceptionally well and then expanded their role most elegantly.
People who complain about the Klingons not having enough ships or costumes are like people who insist on eating the chocolate ice cream and incessantly complain because it doesn't taste enough like vanilla ice cream.