The Future of FCC

The way I see it FC should be returned to the way it was before this past update. If people want to skip the whole content of the game and buy themselves r9rrr and whatnot only to sit around and complain how boring the game is, I say let them so the rest of us that want to enjoy the game can for free.

Also I don't think FCing from 80-100 will make you any worse than someone who quested from 80-100. In fact you may end up better. I used FC a lot on my BM and Sin to get them from 80 to 100 and it taught me a lot about how to use them in a squad dynamic vs doing quests and autoattacking a bunch of mobs.

And if you're so worried about people not knowing their class make people take a quiz about the class before squealing with them that you would have had to read a guide about the class in the forums to pass. Or just stop complaining and don't squad with people you don't think are up to your standards

It should be like it was before and it is going to go back.
Why?
Because as I said pwi knows they make the "BIG Money" with end gear pvp.

Its too late for this to be honest I am burn and many players are too

doing pv is good for people who have multiple alts they the ones that benefit.
The ones that do not are the ones that are really affected.

hell with it do whatever keeps the cashshoppers happy ,after all its a pay to win game anymore about 5% of pwi population even does quests from 1 -75 so keep the cashshoppers happy I don't play pwi much anymore I get to play ESO where cashshoppers wouldn't get anywhere hahaha

I voted the second option.If someone doesnt learn to play his char untill lvl75 clearly he will not learn it after lvl75.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

At that point of the game, with the RB and the few new players that join it should be keep as it was, being a new player and learning I need to level 3 times to level 100 I would be discourage, but learning that hyper cannot be use in FC? I would not even bother to play the game and go check for an other one.

Why would you quit the game because there is high level content and low level content? You'd never find a game that way. Really, new players don't have our concerns. They aren't going to know or care about high level content right away. What they care about, and what they've repeatedly express in "'I'm coming back after quitting, or I'm quitting," threads is that they have no friends and nobody to play with. You wouldn't even know to look for hyper FC if you were a new player, it wouldn't be a concept.

You just go to your fac mate and say "what's best way to level?"

And they'll say "BH, PV, ETC."

And then "Can someone help me do BH?"

or

What's best way to level?"

"FC"

"Can someone help me do FC?"

You're projecting high level concerns (you probably wouldn't even know unless someone ranted at you that there is such a thing as RA) onto new players.

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Most BMs in FCC runs are terrible as hell. They don't realize stuns generate agro (even if a stun attempt fails to hit, it still generates agro), they don't weapon swap to sword for MSS if things go wrong, they want to hold RotP when they lure just in case they need it, which leads to heal agro when they head to the cleric's BB, they don't choose proper paths if a cleric sets BB in different area, etc.

The fact is, most BMs who congratulate themselves on doing well on there, are utter ****. One of the reasons I rolled a BM in 2008 was because of how god awful BMs were and they kept insisting being a non-BM rendered my advice useless. And the sad thing is, most BMs nowadays are even worse than they are.

FCC does not teach a BM how to play. If a squad wipes from mobs, the BM failed. Period. As a BM I've saved full mobs alive during a tank and cleric wipe during FCCs and Rebirth Gammas, and just the few FCCs I've run that have BMs have shown they don't know ****. When you've been in an actually competent dual BM run where there is 18 secs of HF every 30 seconds, with either half damage from mobs or the mobs at half resists, then you get a closer idea of what BMs should be doing. But then, they might need to invest in their skill trees, get a clue, and not be so horrible as they are today.

I agree with you 100% and it used to annoy the heck outta me when I'd go on a run on my sin and the bm didn't know that they were doing. But I still think overall they will turn out better than someone who autoattacked through quests to level. At least in a squad they have a chance to learn or get lucky and squad with someone who can below them (assuming they are willing to be helped)

It's too late and too unfair to put restrictions on it now.

It would be nice to have the option to have the farming instance or xp instance though...

Restrict it so only 75+ can enter.

I'm a faction leader and have got many level 7-9x players who have no idea what their skills do and tell me their previous factions told that FC is the best thing to do and leveled them to that point while leaving them screwed over with their gears and how the gameplay works. Many of these players tell me they'd like to learn the game but they've told to level up fast and do not receive help for anything else except FCC.

There needs to be some kind of restriction on FCC. The amount of power leveled people in game is annoying and overwhelming. I'm tired of being in squads with clerics that don't know what healing aggro is and with seekers that think vortex is their only skill.

It would be lovely to have the mats and armor back in FCC as I was around after it was removed and would love to try it. But as long as there is a restriction in level or use of hypers, I don't care. I just want the game to go back to people knowing what their class is supposed to do!

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Actually I soloed my own FB19 on a barb, HA veno, cleric, sin, seeker, and mystic in the dreamchaser gear. And I didn't even know all the ins and outs of HA venos! The dreamchaser gear + free charms and pots makes it stupid easy to do that now. Just wanted to throw that out there.

Also the definition of play is "to exercise or employ oneself in diversion, amusement, or recreation," according to the dictionary. If you buy FC heads you aren't playing the game. You are paying to allow others to play it for you. The person soloing the room is for you is playing the game. People who bot or purchase heads aren't playing the game. You are not actively engaged in doing anything. You aren't employing yourself to level, you're having someone else do it. And the purpose of killing the heads is not amusement or recreation. It's paying someone else to do what you consider "work," so that you can move past the part you do not enjoy and play the game. By it's very definition people a bot and someone who is buying heads are not playing the game.

And one is not a hypocrite to agree that different things are good for different people while simultaneously acknowledging that what might be fine for a few individuals is bad for the community. That's just acknowledging basic social science.

In the dreamchaser gear with charms/pots, yes i aggree it's very possible.

But will new players (who know nothing about the game) have that?

The act of buying heads also requires you to kill them, which is the 'work', albeit very little work. But work is work. DOn't you pay people to do things for you that you cannot do yourself? Or for the sake of convience?

I said it's hypocritical because the said individuals he is talking about make up most of the community. It isn't just a few individuals, he is talking about forcing a majority of other people to change the way they play in order to get that feeling on nostalgia back from 08'.

This game is very different from back then. Hell getting to 100 is hard enough even with FC, and requires a lot of time, then comes gearing up. Why make the least important part imo (acquiring levels), take the longest? Wouldn't that be bad as well, to put newer/returning players even further behind? The problem isn't FC per se, the problem is a combination of things. The grindish leveling of PWI, combined with rediculous market prices, and typical players. If he wants to argue about 'FC babies', that argument defeats itself. I know players that have played the assassin class 2-3x as long as I have and yet I not only outgear them while staying free to play, I out skill them as well.

I do agree that FC can be bad, but only when combined with certain players.

One thing another MMO that i play recently did was enable endgame players to queue with low level players for instances. Are given a set of gear that is used for the level range of the instance (while keeping skills etc), and their normal gear becomes usable once they leave the instance. They also give those players extra rewards for running these instances again. Summons/battle pets higher than the instance level are disabled. Just an idea, but i thought it was neat.

Yajirushi - Raging Tide wrote: »

There needs to be some kind of restriction on FCC. The amount of power leveled people in game is annoying and overwhelming. I'm tired of being in squads with clerics that don't know what healing aggro is and with seekers that think vortex is their only skill.

It would be lovely to have the mats and armor back in FCC as I was around after it was removed and would love to try it. But as long as there is a restriction in level or use of hypers, I don't care. I just want the game to go back to people knowing what their class is supposed to do!

Don't blame FC for that 'facepalm'. I know 100+ clerics (not fced) that still think bramble draws more aggro that healing, while most of the FCed/TW clerics i know enjoy bramble.

The problem isn't FC it's the player base. 9/10 people only want a seeker in squad for vortex, you can see evidence of this everyday. So if a seeker gets a bad habit of using vortex, it has something to do with people wanting them for this 1 skill alone. Not saying it's excusable, but 1 possible explanation.

As for heal aggro, I'm sure most clerics know what it is, it's a common thing in MMO's. The problem is deciding to heal or not, if you heal someone you might die, if you don't heal they might die. Either way you are going to be judged, so most continue healing without thinking of the best way to go about it, in a way to not draw aggro. Fc has nothing to do with that, that's all on the player.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In the dreamchaser gear with charms/pots, yes i aggree it's very possible.

But will new players (who know nothing about the game) have that?

Yes, yes they will. The cave trial type quests give away the chest pieces for free for much of the lowbie stuff. The gear, when run with an at level squad, also drops very easily. The charms have a quest that direct them to the NPC. And the pots are reward from the giant blinking chest at the top of the screen. Some of the lowest level quests just hands out the lowest tier of dreamchaser gear. A lot of older people assume a lot of things about low game that just aren't true anymore, based on their own experiences.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The act of buying heads also requires you to kill them, which is the 'work', albeit very little work. But work is work. DOn't you pay people to do things for you that you cannot do yourself? Or for the sake of convience?

Right but it's being done for convenience, not for recreation. Playing the game requires active engagement/work and doing it for the purpose of fun/recreation. The little work that is being done is being done for convenience so that you can get to "the real game," and actually start playing your character. Those people are by very definition not playing the game. They are using an in-game feature, but they aren't playing it.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I said it's hypocritical because the said individuals he is talking about make up most of the community. It isn't just a few individuals, he is talking about forcing a majority of other people to change the way they play in order to get that feeling on nostalgia back from 08'.

That's not what hypocritical mean. He's saying what he considers the right way to solve that problem and and his actions show are consistent with what he stated he wants. Since he's been crusading for this for a pretty long time. You might not agree with his values, but he isn't hypocritical to say them.

BTW in my opinion, just because the new players are a minority of players doesn't mean it's okay for the majority of players to ruin their fun. All customers/players should have equal ability to have fun, no matter their play-style. But new players and low levels are being deprived of fun experiences through squad play because of FC. They level almost totally alone and are almost always are handheld through an instance not actually getting to play it. FC has the same detrimental effect on new players and lowbies that nation wars has on nirvana farmers. It really doesn't matter if someone is genuinely interested in farming nirvana if the community is rewarded for totally ignoring it. Unless they luck out, they aren't going to be able to run it with any kind of consistency because it requires more than just them.

This game is very different from back then. Hell getting to 100 is hard enough even with FC, and requires a lot of time, then comes gearing up. Why make the least important part imo (acquiring levels), take the longest? Wouldn't that be bad as well, to put newer/returning players even further behind? The problem isn't FC per se, the problem is a combination of things. The grindish leveling of PWI, combined with rediculous market prices, and typical players. If he wants to argue about 'FC babies', that argument defeats itself. I know players that have played the assassin class 2-3x as long as I have and yet I not only outgear them while staying free to play, I out skill them as well.

Just because you know exceptions to the rule doesn't disprove it. It doesn't negate the fact that human beings become more proficient at activities through experience and practice. By their very nature, FC cannot produce the same amount of skilled players as the other methods. Because humans gain skill through experience in general, even if some are just naturally going to be better than everyone else with little practice.

Also I'm well aware this game is very different than what it used to be. It's much faster to level up. We're talking a couple of days difference here. A couple of days so new players actually have someone to play with. It doesn't put the newcomer behind if the game starts when they do. If there is engaging and fun content they can do with at level players even at low levels. The only reason they are "behind," is that they can't really play this game the way an MMO should be played, massively multiplayer, until 100. And a large part of that is FC. It takes away most of the veterans in a veteran filled game. It's small wonder so many are quitting and citing "nobody to play with," as their reason when they can be bothered to make a post on the forums.

I do agree that FC can be bad, but only when combined with certain players.

We have no ability to opt out of the detriment gameplay experience FC is causing for low game, or opt out of squad with people who use it to rush to 100 just because they want to play with others. But then suck because they haven't actually played the game yet. So it doesn't really matter. If you wanted to revive nirvana you'd have to come up for some alternate solution for it or remove raps/cannies as a reward from nation wars. Just saying that it's still there isn't enough because the entire server culture has changed and this means a person's ability to do it is significantly and detrimentally altered. Even it is still there, it is practically dead because of nation wars.

One thing another MMO that i play recently did was enable endgame players to queue with low level players for instances. Are given a set of gear that is used for the level range of the instance (while keeping skills etc), and their normal gear becomes usable once they leave the instance. They also give those players extra rewards for running these instances again. Summons/battle pets higher than the instance level are disabled. Just an idea, but i thought it was neat.

Having some kind of legacy thing that hampered peoples' ability to steamroll the things for lowbies and made them actually have to work together with them would also work. In fact, it would be the superior solution imo. But it's not anywhere as realistic as simply asking for this change to remain.

Veneir - Dreamweaver wrote: »

--wait
What's the main reason that we're sticking with "no FC >85" as apposed to "FC hypers can only be enabled when a character has rebirthed at least once"?

...also PWI would do the worst to people who don't use their r9 armour type when it comes to 'giving substituting gear' because then they'd be giving people who take pride in their LA or HA or whatever armour AA instead. 3: Or HA instead of LA for those people. Or any other combination.
It happens literally every time there's a quest given armour type that your class can only take one ype of armour now and it bothers the hell out of me because all I want is to be able to select a useable HA at level 1 after rebirthing so I don't have to suck until I get my legit armour back like 90 levels later in a few months.
...also the pets should just be deleveled and not unable to summon in that kind of situation. Rebirth non-pet venos is already bad enough, and I don't care how strong the pet's leveling curve is, the character already has level 100 skills still so kasngdsg..

I suppose initial limit being 75 and then that counting forever would be fine. I don't have a problem with RA people using it since they'd just blow through any lowbie instance anyway in their gear and it's the same as if a high leveled soloed it for you.

To use an analogy from the last time this was debated. I don't have a problem with speeding, I just want people to slow down in the school zones.

I just got back after a 2 year break to find out that we can now rebirth .. not once but several times. ive been playing a wizzy since 2009 whn the game was released. I made it past first rebirth and into second whn u take down hypers in FC. Look im a return player and ur making me want to leave again.. please fix this so i can get back to 100 and do the stuff im missing out on like primal 100 dailys ect.. im already behind as it is.. now im really gonna fall back ... I vote return it to normal no one had a problem with the way it was except cry babys who care that others dont know how to play thier toons cuase they got nothing else better to worry about apparantly. Just play ur own toons and mind ur own bussiness plox b:bye

Krelian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I just got back after a 2 year break to find out that we can now rebirth .. not once but several times. ive been playing a wizzy since 2009 whn the game was released. I made it past first rebirth and into second whn u take down hypers in FC. Look im a return player and ur making me want to leave again.. please fix this so i can get back to 100 and do the stuff im missing out on like primal 100 dailys ect.. im already behind as it is.. now im really gonna fall back ... I vote return it to normal no one had a problem with the way it was except cry babys who care that others dont know how to play thier toons cuase they got nothing else better to worry about apparantly. Just play ur own toons and mind ur own bussiness plox b:bye

This sort of thing is why I think it makes sense for FC hypering to just be enabled for rebirth characters and not at all for first playthrough. First leveling up to 100 is practically all early game now, afterall.

Keisari - Raging Tide wrote: »

And just what you'd see as the point of farming FC-gears that are badly outdated by now? Not to mention that they're unupgradeable to level 100-versions. If they just turned FC into a mere mat farming instance, FC would 95% die.

If they had done it 2,5 years ago, it would have been effective, but not anymore. Only way to make FC-farming for mats worth it now would be making another instance/editing nirvy for farming mats for some lvl 100 gears for upgrading FC-golds to in a fashion similar to Lunar and FWS these days.



That would kill the only reason Kitty's really playing this game for. Having recreated a little army of mains Kitty can honestly say that forcing newbies to level without hypers would just scare them away. The power creep ish so massive, that if leveling as non-rb took any longer, most would probably just give up around 88 unless they like grinding mobs a lot. There's not too many quests left that time and forcing at least 500 PV/FC runs to reach 100(though even that's probably underestimate, considering that 97-100 alone takes about 30 FCs hypered.

I didn't say that new characters couldn't use hypers whatsoever until rebirth, just not in Frostcover City where the mentality is 'get here when level one and wait to be able to 'play the game' until we're done'.. Zhenning atop butterfly ponds and such with hypers, among many other ways to get exp, still exists, and other things might start to happen. Making different activities exist as happening in the game for not just 100+ is the whole point here.

Also I see no reason why making a bunch of alts should be a mindless process.... people making a bunch of alts to circumvent attempted solutions (and being able to do it in days) is in fact, a problem.
At least with the new starting zone that got removed for some reason, people were able to preview their class to see if they wanted it, so the argument of 'I can't see what I can do until I'm high leveled' was null.....